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Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:03 PM

The Top Three Most Aggressive Dog Breeds- You’ll Be Surprised!

We often believe that the most common, aggressive breeds are Pitbulls, Doberman Pinscher, and Rottweilers, as they have often been labeled in society and other misleading studies that they are the most aggressive and dangerous. According to a new study by Applied Animal Behavior Science, the most aggressive dog breeds will surprise you; it’s not any of the former three, and are often much smaller. This study also provides statistical facts as to which breeds really are aggressive. Researchers from University of Pennsylvania, along with 6,000 dog owners were studied and surveyed. Read on to discover the top three most aggressive dog breeds.



The top ranking dog breed, out of the 33 dogs surveyed, to be the most aggressive is…the Dachsund. Wow! I would never have thought, much less, consider it the most aggressive dog breed. The study found that “one out of five dachsunds have bitten or tried to bite strangers, and a similar number have attacked other dogs; one in 12 have snapped at their owners.”



The second highest ranking for most agressive is the Chihuahua with Jack Russell ranking in 3rd. Researchers claim that “the bite statistics that have been released in recent years are skewed because most dog bites are not reported. Big dog bites are more likely to require medical attention, but this does not mean that those breeds are doing the majority of the biting.” It is also duly noted that aggressive levels in these breeds is alarming because the percentage keeps rising with rate of and attempted bites.



The breeds that scored the average or below average rate of or attempted bites are Pit Bulls and Rottweilers. The breeds that are the most docile with the utmost least aggression are Bassett Hounds, Golden Retrievers, Labradors, Siberian Huskies (my favorite breed) and Greyhounds.



Do these research findings surprise you? As a lifetime owner of a variety of breeds, I have to agree with these statistics from certain breeds that I have owned. Also, every Pitbull that I have encountered, as well as Rottweiler, are the most sweetest, loving dogs I have ever met and been around. Unfortunately, the smaller breeds, especially Jack Russell and Chihuahua’s have been the most aggressive that I have encountered.


http://www.petwatchman.com/the-top-three-most-aggressive-dog-breeds-youll-be-surprised/





Eye of the tiger!

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Reply The Top Three Most Aggressive Dog Breeds- You’ll Be Surprised! (Original post)
DainBramaged Feb 2013 OP
FarCenter Feb 2013 #1
barbtries Feb 2013 #5
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Liberal Veteran Feb 2013 #44
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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:06 PM

1. No surprise about the Cihuahuas -- a neighbor had two of the nasty little things.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:11 PM

5. i have a chihuahua`

and he is the sweetest little guy in the world. it was a shame i couldn't breed him because he was a crytochord (1 testicle never dropped, a condition associated with high cancer rate). he has a wonderful disposition.

it's dog by dog. i've never heard of anyone being seriously injured by a bite from the smaller breeds, though it may be true that they attempt to bite more. i was surprised by the results.

anyway, all chihuahuas are not "nasty little things." like pit bulls they have a bad rep.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:43 PM

39. I've heard of nice ones, but I've yet to personally meet one that was disciplined

All and I mean all of the ones I've encountered were twitchy, neurotic, snappy, aggressive little monsters whose owners got them for the sake of having a toy, not a pet.

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Response to Posteritatis (Reply #39)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:00 PM

44. They seem very devoted to a particular person in my experience.

And somewhere between hostile and cranky with anyone else. I'm sure they are wonderful animals, but I think you nailed it with "neurotic".

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Response to Liberal Veteran (Reply #44)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:25 PM

51. You are correct. My Chihuahua is devoted to just me.

She does not like strangers. She especially does not like men but will tolerate women. I am her mommy and she listens to only me. When she knows she has been bad and I reprimand her, she rolls onto her back. She would never dare bite or snap at me.

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Response to RebelOne (Reply #51)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 01:05 AM

153. My 80 year old father

acquired a 12 year old chihuahua from a family member. The dog was a PITA because he was never fully housebroken. However, he did give his allegience to my father. If my dad was gone for a few hours, the little dog would wimper with happiness that my dad had returned. We later discovered that the dog and my father had the same affliction, a bad heart valve. My dad got a replacement, the Chihuahua did not.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:15 PM

46. I've fostered several Chihuahuas and never had a problem

And never had that as an issue by the adopters.

The woman that was part of rescue had a Chihuahua that was very much a family dog and very irritable towards those not in family. She would try to be nasty with me at first but then mellowed out. I dog sat her several times at my place.

I've got a Chihuahua now that I'm still fostering. She is scared of cats and very timid with other people. She tries to move away from them. Never has bared her teeth or anything like that. I'm able to pick at her ears, stick my finger in her mouth. If she misbehaves like trying to scrounge food from my girl she gets a small jab. Most times I can either snap my fingers, count 1,2,3 or count with my fingers and she usually jumps back on the recliner. She does love belly rubs and scratching her ears or stroking her head. Nap times she will sleep against my arm and hand.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:24 PM

91. I immediately thought Chihuahua too.

My step daughter has one, and it loves to be cuddled -- by 4 people on the planet, including her husband, my wife, and myself. Anyone else comes near and she's a vicious 7-pound threat. And sometimes when she's really agitated she can draw blood from one of the 4.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:49 PM

116. There is a joke told by a Hispanic comedian that says

that in Mexico, someone had to idea to crossbreed a pirahna with a rat, call it a chihuahua and sell it to gringos.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:06 PM

2. More biting means less cats, leading to more birds

 

All hail the Dachsund

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Response to NoOneMan (Reply #2)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:35 PM

30. My neighbor's yappy little JRTDs are no match for my 15-pound Attack Cats

 

YMMV

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #30)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:36 PM

32. Good...more cats mean more happiness...nt

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Response to joeybee12 (Reply #32)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:27 PM

54. ^This^

Kitties = Happiness. The secret of life.

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Response to NoOneMan (Reply #2)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 12:40 AM

151. I have one

He puts my hundred lb shepherd into submission just by snapping at her. He showed up here about five years ago. We could not find his owners so he made himself right at home. He has never attempted to bite anyone.

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Response to NoOneMan (Reply #2)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 01:35 AM

155. I'll put any kitteh I have ever known against a doxie.

The kitteh just unsheathes those claws and it's game over.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:07 PM

3. That's 'cause they hate being called "weiner dogs".

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Response to Scuba (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:43 PM

133. Yep, they get PO'ed about all the weiner jokes!!! I told mine

to shut up or I was gonna stuff him in a bun. Just joking, lol.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:08 PM

4. I could deal with an out of control wiener dog, pit bull notsomuch

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Response to NightWatcher (Reply #4)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:14 PM

7. If you ever encounter a pissed-off Standard Dachsund

Get the hell out of Dodge.

They are fearless and almost impossible to handle when they are being aggressive and they are cobra-quick. These are dogs that were bred to drag badgers out of their lairs.

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Response to DollarBillHines (Reply #7)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:39 PM

35. I once spent 45 mins sitting on top of a friend's desk

While Sherman (wiener) went berzerk. No way was I going to get in that guy's way. Good thing he couldn't reach me.

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Response to DollarBillHines (Reply #7)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:17 PM

122. Agree about the Standard Dachshund

We almost adopted a female standard dachshund (she was food-aggressive toward our 8 year old mini dachshund when we let the two meet) from a dachshund rescue. She was 30 pounds and looked like a black angus steer. She was a muscular dog. Her bark sounded like the bark from a black lab. And although she was low to the ground, she was super agile. Even as a nasty badger, I wouldn't want to see a standard dachshund coming down my hole.

By the way, our miniature dachshund Loves scouting the groundhog hole on our land, when we let her back on that part of the property. Of course, she has to be 'attended' at all times when near the hole, or else she'll try to disappear down there!

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Response to DollarBillHines (Reply #7)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 03:30 AM

158. LOL...I have friends who have a German Shepherd mix and a terrier mix

The terrier is tiny but totally game. She got in a fight with their big dog one day. They grabbed the big dog and I grabbed the terrier by the scruff and just picked her up. She didn't care I picked her up by the scruff, she was still fully intent on going after their large dog.

I've got a Patterdale terrier/poodle mix. I used to live on a street with several pit bulls, a mastiff and a few heelers, she'd want to attack them as we walked past their yards. She's pretty little, but don't tell her that.

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Response to DollarBillHines (Reply #7)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 04:00 AM

162. LOL

A co-worker of mine at the kennel got bit by a Dachsund. I think he just didn't like men because us girls had no trouble with him. I never saw such a small dog bite bleed so much in my life lol

I found that some Chihuahuas and Dachsunds were a bit temperamental, while the rest were sweeties.

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Response to NightWatcher (Reply #4)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:15 PM

12. You have to be able to catch them first.

Then you better hope there is only one.

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Response to NightWatcher (Reply #4)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:27 PM

56. Never had to deal with an attacking animal, have you?

Trust me, you do not want fifteen pounds of dachshund attached to you by the teeth. After all, they were bred to chase and fight this:


Any animal that has decided it is going to hurt you, is going to fuck your day up. Even a chihuahua is going to give you hell.

And spare me the "strength" argument - Human flesh is fragile, and a mouth full of pointy things with ANY muscle behind it, is going to cause problems for us.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #56)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:56 PM

119. I've taken on plenty of dogs over the years

it comes from being a bicyclist and also a paperboy.

I'd much rather take on a little one than a big one.

A daschund though, is pretty solid and not as small as a chihuahua. Still much rather be attacked by one of them than by a German shepard or a rottweiler or pitt bull.

Just yesterday I was biking to the grocery store and had a loose dog chasing me. About a twenty pounder, big enough to do some damage. I stopped to confrot or capture him and he scampered away. He knew better than to really mess with an animal my size. And I was not even being threatening and had no hostile intentions.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #56)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:00 PM

121. No surprise about Dachshunds -- and nice post and picture, Scootaloo

Our 9 pound miniature dachshund cornered a momma possum under a patio deck once (our dachsie was on-lead/restrained, thank goodness). The sounds from both animals were super nasty. And luckily the possum was hunkered back enough that she didn't lash forward/physically engage our dog.

In any of her interactions with strange dogs (at the dog park, etc) where dominance might be an issue between her and another dog of *any size, our dachshund always seems to display the upper hand. 9 pounds vs. whatever.

And of course our dachshund puts our 45 pound treeing Walker coonhound in his place whenever he needs it!

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Response to mike dub (Reply #121)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:35 PM

128. Opossums are sweeties, actually

They make noises, they stink, but they don't put up any fight, really. They have really weak jaws too. Wouldn't want to get bitten by one, but it wouldn't hurt too much. Another thing? They can't carry rabies, since their body temperature is too low

Raccoons, on the other hand...

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #128)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 10:09 PM

139. possums are hilarious, too



There was one raiding the garbage can one night when my boyfriend at that time and I came home late at night.

We stopped and put the brights on. And got treated to the best "Ruh ro, I'm busted--oh no, oh no, oh no, what should I do!!?? Oh crap!!!! OK, If I don't look at them they won't see me" show EVAR!

Instead of turning around and escaping into the shadows right behind him, he (she?) took the long way across the "stage" with our lights on him the whole way. But making sure not to look at us. Because of course, that way, we wouldn't notice him.

We laffed our asses off!

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:11 PM

6. I have to disagree about rottweilers. I found them to be the most dangerous breed to work on in

a veterinary situation. Extremely aggressive, hostile to strangers, intolerant of handling by vets and staff, highly prone to attacking first and asking questions later, and intimidating to owners, who then cannot control them physically OR by voice.

Maybe the breed has changed in the past 20 years. I sure hope so, because they were the one part of practice that I HATED when I still did dogs. The only breed I was ever actually afraid of, rather than just peeved at.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #6)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:35 PM

29. I have had 4 Rotts. They all loved our Vet and showered him with kisses.

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Response to appleannie1 (Reply #29)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:41 PM

105. then again

The series of Rotts that live next to me have attacked a mailman, other dogs, people on bikes, and nearly attacked my then 8 months pregnant wife, who had to sprint across the street to our friends house. One died because the dog killed a raccoon and got rabies. The neighbors then got two more to replace that one and have still yet to figure out how to train them, control them or more realistically just don't care. I have told my neighbors that if their dogs get in my yard one more time (we installed a 10 foot privacy fence to protect our three kids), I would call the cops and have the dogs put down right then and there.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #6)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 01:30 AM

154. The techs at my vet's office told me the same thing.

I said that this is the one breed that scared me and they agreed, told stories of how the dog would be friendly one minute, then have them pinned up against the wall the next. Several had similar stories.

But then I met an acquaintance who has more than one Rottie, and the one I met couldn't have been a sweeter dog. This guy takes the dog everywhere and he's friendly to everybody, played with my Brussels Griffon and has learned to do all sorts of tricks. He's very good about sitting and waiting for a treat.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #6)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 03:33 AM

159. I worked in a kennel and the breed I didn't trust was the Chows

They just never seemed to give a reading at all. They'd be standing there seeming fine then try to bite you. The other "aggressive" breed dogs were pretty much okay provided you didn't act scared.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:14 PM

8. Much of this probably still comes down to the owners ...

... rather than the breed itself. Owners are more likely to tolerate aggressive behavior in a small dog, rationalizing that a bite is not going to do much damage.

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Response to surrealAmerican (Reply #8)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:18 PM

14. Not true. I have had my Chihuahua since she was 6 weeks old.

I never taught her to be aggressive and always reprimanded her when she snapped at anyone.

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Response to RebelOne (Reply #14)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:20 PM

17. ... and does she bite people anyway? ...

... or did your training her work?

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Response to surrealAmerican (Reply #17)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:20 PM

50. No, it did not work. I think it is just in her nature.

I cannot get her out of her aggressiveness. My son breeds Chihuahuas and some of his Chihuahuas were aggressive, but her mommy and daddy were not.

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Response to RebelOne (Reply #50)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:33 PM

98. I hope he stops breeding.

The shelters are full of chihuahuas.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:15 PM

9. I totally believe that, it's been my experience that smaller dogs in general are more aggressive.

My little terror err terrier is fairly aggressive. She will bark at people and dogs she doesn't know. Once she gets to know either she won't bark at them. She never barks at any of our immediate neighbors dogs or at any of our neighbors. But, if she sees any stranger dog or human she will bark. On the other hand my dads hunting dogs never barked at other dogs they would bark at people but it was more for the people to come play with them than as a warning.

Now the problem with pit bulls in particular is when they bite and latch on they will not let go. They have very strong jaws so when they do attack they can be deadly. A dachsund, chihuahua, and a Jack Russel are not near as likely to cause a fatality. Although of the three my guess is the Jack Russel could cause some considerable damage.

Other larger but usually not aggressive breeds can also be deadly. I heard there was a deadly collie attack. Of all the dogs I would have felt would be pretty safe, well collies would be high on the list of not dangerous at all.

The problem is rarely with the breed of the dog. It's almost always a dog that is owned by someone that is violent and aggressive themselves that is the problem. If we took dogs away from people with violent tendencies it would solve a lot of the problems of the not usually violent dogs becoming violent.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:15 PM

10. Yes, I can agree that the most aggressive of all breeds is the Chihuahua.

I had Rottweiler who is now in doggie heaven, but when she was still here, she was the sweetest dog you would ever meet. But my Chihuahua is a killer. My Rottie would never bark or growl at anyone, but the Chihuahua bsrks and attacks anyone who comes to the door or into my house. She is a biter, and I never allow her to be around any children. I never had to worry when my Rottie was around children. She loved everyone. Unfortunately, I lost her to liver and bone cancer when she was 13 years old. My Chihuahua is only 4 years old and I think she will outlive me.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:15 PM

11. Our neighbors had Rottweilers. They were scared shitless of them....and we were more so.

I don't like to generalize about breeds - to me the most significant factor is how they are raised and treated - and yes, I am sure that there is some genetic aspect, perhaps in breeds, but also in the particular blood line of the dog.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Reply #11)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:22 PM

21. I have 2 Rottweilers and they are a perfect dog.

My Rotties were the sweetest and the most obedient dogs you would ever know.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:17 PM

13. The article cites "a new study by Applied Animal Behavior Science" ...

... if you follow the link to the "Source" for the article, you'll find that the study was done in 2008.

Here's a link to a pdf of the study if you're interested: http://140.122.143.143/yuyinghs/yuyinghsu/papers/DuffyHsuSerpell2008.pdf

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Response to DreamGypsy (Reply #13)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:22 PM

19. I had a Jack and we have a Chihuahua/Pincer

they were/are little pricks. Both have bitten about five people, some friends, scare them and grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.


My Labs never bit anybody. My Sweetie's pittie never bit anyone.


The little guys, snack snack yum

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:18 PM

15. I had the unpleasant experience of having a surly Yorkie-Poo in my house for several months

 

Spoiled rotten by his owner, and incontinent to boot. He had a face that only his mother could love.

He bit me once. I asserted dominance in a language he understood, and he steered clear of me after that.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:20 PM

16. It would be interesting to see if there's a link between docility and breeding tasks

 

I would guess that working dogs like Huskies are less likely to bite, since they were bred to take orders and perform a specific task.

Probably not. But I don't know.

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Response to RZM (Reply #16)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:27 PM

24. Some of the nicest dogs I've ever met

belong to the Iditarod mushers. When they get to Nome, all the kids are in the chute at the finish line, petting the dogs and feeding them treats. I've never once seen the least bit of aggression.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:22 PM

18. Chihuahua was my first thought, some make me think of piranhas. Fierce little things.

Some of them as sweet as a baby kitten. Others, watch out. I don't know if it's breeding or environment that makes them that way.

A friend has toy poodles that are very aggressive as well. Very territorial. Didn't know about Dachshounds or Jack Russell terriers,thought they were laid back. Well, maybe not in terriers when they see prey. What's the old saying?

It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog. They don't lack spunk any of them.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #18)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:28 PM

25. A dachshund is a wolf hound stuffed into a sock.

Completely fearless. She bullies dogs five times her size at the vet.

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Response to X_Digger (Reply #25)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:33 PM

27. No lack of self-confidence there!

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Response to freshwest (Reply #27)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:38 PM

33. It would take a doxie to do this.. to a lion.. (Warning: potentially NSWF)

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Response to X_Digger (Reply #33)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:43 PM

40. Huh, just read the description. Didn't need that...

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Response to X_Digger (Reply #25)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:28 PM

126. Our dachshund is the same way at the vet!

And one time, at the dog park, (no, not Band Camp) a big dog was picking a lil fight on a french bulldog puppy that our dachshund had befriended. Our dachshund immediately got in front of the bulldog puppy and let out a big, nasty volley of barking, in the big dog's face. The big dog huffed and trotted away. Dog-parents nearby all erupted in applause!

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:22 PM

20. And all doxie owners' response? "Well duh!" LOL n/t

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:24 PM

22. I have a ChiJack mix

and she's a feisty little thing. She's also the best snuggler

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:24 PM

23. I've never had the big dog ever try to attack me

Unless you call trying to lick me to death, attacks.

It's always been small breeds that have tried to make a meal out of me.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:32 PM

26. I have always called chihuahuas ankle biters and given them a wide berth if possible.

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Response to appleannie1 (Reply #26)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:28 PM

57. Yes, I have a Chihuahua and they are deinitely ankle biters,

at least according to anyone who comes into my house.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:34 PM

28. So, how many people have been mauled to death by dachshunds or chihuahuas?

The issue isn't which is more aggressive.

The issue is which is more dangerous.

Most dogs can be sweet, loving, and aggressive. Depending on circumstance. In fact, a dog can be sweet and loving to their owner at the same time that they are being aggressive toward a stranger.



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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:35 PM

31. How many children have been mauled to death by chihuahuas and/or dachsunds?

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:38 PM

34. My cousin's nutty Jack Russell is always nipping at everything......


....... can't stand that dog.


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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:41 PM

36. No surprise...I have a pit, and I'm confident if you met her, you'd love her!

Sweet and clown-like, smart as a whip, scared of my cats. She is a source of constant giggles in our house.

I didn't set out to own a pit bull, but I saw her picture on "death row dogs", on the euthanasia list at the NYC ACC. She was only a baby, less than 10 months old and her photo was so pathetic, her tail tucked firmly between her legs. Something in her face made me jump in my car, drive to animal control and take her home. Our other dog loves her (they're playing tug of war right now), she goes to our local dog park regularly and is one of the star pupils at canine kindergarten. Everyone who meets her loves her and she truly loves everyone.

I wish people could keep an open mind about dog breeds just as they should keep an open mind about people.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:42 PM

37. I have a terrier mix

I adopted. Cutest face, shy demeanor at the adoption fair... but got him home and the terrible came out. Food aggressive, growler, biter. Thing is, he was small so I could handle him and prevent him from hurting my beagle or people.

I almost returmed him to the rescue group, but decided to work with him. And work it was. But today, Oscar is the sweetest animal. No one (he'd been in three homes before mine) had ever taken the time to train him and he'd been around bigger dogs where he apparently had to fight for food.

With a trainer's help, he sits and waits for his scheduled meals, plays nicely with other dogs and people and is now a joy to have.

So, owners are certainly often the problem. Stiil, larger, powerful dogs like pits, rots and dobermans are more frightening regardless of individual temperament because if/when they do go off, they are harder to control. Course, I'm scared for life when it comes to dobermans. Growing up we had some crazy neighbors with 3 of them. One day (49 years ago!), one attacked the paperboy who let out the most horrific scream and suffered several awful bites. I don't see doberman today without that memory...

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Response to Carolina (Reply #37)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:45 PM

41. One of our rescues was like that re food.. it was a real chore.

Now, we make them lay down, nose to the ground, right in front of the food and wait until we tell them it's okay.

And every so often, we'll reach in and stir their food while they eat. Any growling? Food is taken away for 5 minutes.

Haven't had to do that in a looooong time.

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Response to X_Digger (Reply #41)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 06:51 AM

166. it's amazing how

some effort goes a long way and you really can teach an old dog new tricks! Oscar, too, has to go sit in a nearby corner until released. It also helps that all my dogs have a schedule and know when it's mealtime.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:43 PM

38. I guessed 2/3 the Chihuahua and the Jack Russell. The dachshunds were a surprise to me.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:53 PM

42. I have a terrier-maltese mix

and she is ONLY aggressive with other dogs. LOVES kids especially and most people. If they get too rough when petting her or in her space, she'll growl and maybe snap, never actually managed to bite, though. Sometimes I swear it's like she just KNOWS she doesn't like the looks of someone, in which case she'll bark and not be willing to be petted.
She was a rescue and we are pretty sure the parents(stepmom) of the teens who were raising her were abusive or just scary for her. When she came to us she was so matted, and you could feel her spine bones....

now she is happy, fat and loved, she even has a kitten of her own to play with...they are the cutest things to watch!

(stock pic, but this is exactly how she looks!)

My Friend has a Daschie, and she is seriously a 'badger dog' ...but with a good human and correct training/boundaries, she is only defending her 'pack' and if you are part of it, she will shower you with licks!

Now this may be off topic, but here in the mtns with all the outdoorsy folk, we have a LOT of big dogs running around, and mostly off leash.
we have a leash law, but since when did that ever help?
what i HATE, is when we are out for a hike/walk and we see a pack of big dogs come loping up to us, and the owners say

"don't worry they don't bite"

"ya? well mine DOES!" especially when she is the one feeling threatened by YOUR BIG DOG OFF-LEASH

sorry, it just chaps my hide and I wish there was a way to explain it to people that in DOG language, the one ON a leash is always gonna be threatened by the one OFF...add to that your dog is twice the size of mine, assholes...

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Response to FirstLight (Reply #42)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:45 PM

134. Total-cutie-pie alert!

Your dog is so cute, FirstLight!!!!

And I hear ya about a dog protecting her 'pack'.

The day my wife found our miniature dachshund (a skinny, flea-bitten stray on the side of a rural Florida road / lucky not to be gator bait), she and the dog got home before me. It was dark by the time I got home. They greeted me out in front of the house, and our new dachshund girl stood in front of my wife and let out a volley of barking- right at me. She was Already protecting my wife-- who had picked her up and brought her home. It's all about 'the pack'!

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:54 PM

43. And yet the statistics say otherwise.

http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-study-dog-attacks-and-maimings-merritt-clifton.php

The combination of large molosser breeds, including pit bulls, rottweilers, presa canarios, cane corsos, mastiffs, dogo argentinos, fila brasieros, and their mixes:

79% of attacks that induce bodily harm
72% of attacks to children
85% of attack to adults
69% of attacks that result in fatalities
77% that result in maiming

How many more of these threads are we going to see? You are enabling a mindset that gets children killed and maimed.


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Response to Nine (Reply #43)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:12 PM

45. dogbites.org doesn't have to most stellar reputation

I encourage you to read this; "The Pit Bull Placebo: The Media, Myths and Politics of Canine Aggression" by the National Canine Research Council. Its rather lengthy, but well-written, 15 years of research based on fact, not media hype or hysteria.

dogbites.org compiles their data from media reports, who often misidentify the offending dog. If you don't elect to read the booklet from NCRC, please at least do a basic google search.

http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/uploaded_files/publications/230603563_Pit%20Bull%20Placebo.pdf

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Response to dorkzilla (Reply #45)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:18 PM

48. Thanks so much for the link!

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Response to smokey nj (Reply #48)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:03 PM

74. My pleasure!

I've owned all breeds of dog throughout my life, I also am an active rescuer. My pit is the first and I've learned a lot about them since, and have grown to love them, and feel badly that it's their turn to be vilified. Did you know in the 19th century the dog that was thought vicious and unpredictable was the bloodhound?

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Response to dorkzilla (Reply #74)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:07 PM

75. Newfies were as well.

I'm a dog walker/pet sitter, I've had several client pitties and pit mixes and they've all been fabulous.

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Response to smokey nj (Reply #75)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:11 PM

76. Newfies?! *snort*

Were people once afraid of doggie drool or were they just afraid they'd find out they suffer from the delusion that they're lap dogs and will try and sit on you?

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Response to dorkzilla (Reply #76)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:20 PM

84. Yup, Newfies!

I was shocked when I read it. Chapter 3 in the "Pit Bull Placebo" covers the Newfie's time in the vicious dog hot seat.

Like the Bloodhound, the Newfoundland is another breed of dog that figured predominantly in fatal and severe attacks in the latter part of the 19th century, yet has ceased to be an issue in fatalities in the 20th century. The Newfoundland dog was commonly found in episodes of canine aggression from the late 1800s into the early 1900s. In just one city, Chicago, there were two fatal attacks by a Newfoundland dog during this time period. However, after the second decade of the 20th century, the Newfoundland dog all but disappears from reported cases of attacks.

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Response to dorkzilla (Reply #45)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:25 PM

52. Only because you disagree with them. But they did not compile those stats anyway.

Those stats are from the Clifton Report. If you have a source for dog bite statistics you think is more accurate, please share.

http://sruv-pitbulls.blogspot.com/2011/07/clifton-report.html

From the author...

Media reports include police reports, animal control reports, witness accounts, victim accounts in many instances, and hospital reports. They are, in short, multi-sourced, unlike reports from any single source....

Pit bull advocates have yet to find ANY fatalities inflicted by any breed which have eluded my notice over the past 30 years. They have come up with zero, zilch, nada.

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Response to Nine (Reply #52)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:57 PM

70. If I have a source for dog bite statistics that I think is more accurate? Are you kidding?

Did you actually read my post? If you bothered you'd see I rather thoughtfully attached something that has 15 years of factual research. Moreover, in the link I've attached, they discuss about those so-called eyewitness accounts and how inaccurate they are; people often identify any dog with a large head as a "pit bull" when very often they're not.

You seem to be more in the talking mode, rather than the listening one. Forgive me of I mistook you for someone who might actually be open-minded. If you read what is attached you might learn something that challenge YOUR prejudices, which you clearly have been hellbent on confirming for "the last 30 years".

Also, your 2 last sentences make no sense. Zero zilch nada.

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Response to dorkzilla (Reply #70)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:00 PM

72. Don't bother with that one, it obviously has an agenda.

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Response to smokey nj (Reply #72)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:19 PM

82. My agenda is to have less of this:

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Response to Nine (Reply #82)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:22 PM

85. BSL and breed bans won't prevent that.

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Response to smokey nj (Reply #85)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:32 PM

97. In your opinion. (nt)

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Response to dorkzilla (Reply #70)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:17 PM

81. What you attached contained no statistics.

It merely criticized the statistics that do exist as unreliable.

The last two sentences are not mine, but an excerpt from the author I cited (as I noted). Read MY link and you will see the excerpt in a larger context.

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Response to Nine (Reply #81)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:39 PM

103. It is 233 pages of statistics, a detailed listing of dog attacks going back to the 1860s...

Police reports, CDC statistics, photographs of dogs reported to be pits that weren't, case studies of other dog breeds attacking and fatally wounding people that werent reported because they werent sensational enough, studies of people, including vets and animal control officers consistently misidentifying ALL breeds, not just pits etc etc. It's a thoughtful detailed analysis.

Fester in your ignorance if you want, I could give a fiddlers fart. You clearly have an agenda--I just want all dogs to have a chance at a good home.

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Response to dorkzilla (Reply #103)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:21 PM

123. and ending at 1975. (nt)

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Response to Nine (Reply #123)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:42 PM

131. No.it.does.not.

One part of it does, but the data on individual attacks goes up to 2007 when it was published.

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Response to dorkzilla (Reply #131)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:43 PM

132. page number please? (nt)

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Response to Nine (Reply #132)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:51 PM

136. I've had enough of this. Read it yourself, it's there.

I'm not wasting anymore time, you come back here to fight, not discuss, so just run along now junior.

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Response to dorkzilla (Reply #136)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:53 PM

137. It's 233 pages, you can't give me a page number? (nt)

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Response to Nine (Reply #43)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:17 PM

47. You are sure right.

 

It's not so much which breed is more aggressive. It is which breeds are able to maim and kill. I doubt any chihauhuas, dachshunds, or jack russell terriers can do that kind of damage to a human being.

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Response to Nine (Reply #43)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:16 PM

80. Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.

Repeating lies constantly doesn't make them true, it just makes you look like an idiot.

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Response to baldguy (Reply #80)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:30 PM

95. I agree. Repeating lies doesn't make them true.

Lies like "pit bulls used to be used to nanny children."

I hope you realize that there is "scientific" research showing that smoking is good for you. There is research backing up just about any position you want to take on anything. Not all "scientific" research is created equal. And this is where common sense can help out. Does your common sense really tell you that dachsunds are more dangerous than pit bulls? Do you really think a high proportion of those dog bite fatalities attributed to pit bulls type dogs were actually inflicted by dachsunds or chihuahuas or all the other "aggressive" dogs people are telling stories about in this thread?

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Response to Nine (Reply #95)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:43 PM

106. Reading comprehension is clearly not your strong suit

No one even remotely suggested the smaller breeds inflicted deadly bites.

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Response to Nine (Reply #95)


Response to Nine (Reply #43)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 04:44 AM

163. Oh for goodness sake,

give it a rest. If you pay attention to what people are saying you will find that a ton more people on this board have had good experiences than those who have had bad. Which is exactly the way it is in the real world. I guess that just doesn't fit the narrative does it?

If these dogs are so aggressive, untrainable or can't be rehabilitated, how come scores of pit bull rescuers in this country aren't coming up dead or disfigured from their constant exposure to the hundreds of pit bulls they deal with? With as many as we have in the US, people should be getting disfigured and killed by the hundreds or thousands every single day the way some of you act about it.

You have a better chance of getting hit and killed by freaking lightening than to be killed by a pit bull. It's one of the most rare ways to die. This hysteria is ridiculous.



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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:18 PM

49. The dogs that tended to bite when I fostered

were Poodles and Pomeranians. Usually due to fear. Once they adjusted they did much better.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:26 PM

53. Not surprised at all. Little dogs' neuroses are too often supported. I've been bitten three times.

All three dogs were dachshunds. Don't get me wrong, some dachshunds are quite nice little dogs. But they can be quick to react and like other small breeds they are treated like adorable children much of the time, and not dogs. Dogs are wonderful, and always a part of my life, but I do not let mine be aggressive toward anyone or anything. I have a little Cavalier now that just goes batshit when she is on a leash or in the car and sees another dog. We have tried many solutions but she gets in a zone and can't think. Therefore she misses out on many things that all, and I mean from my Doberman Pinscher of years back to my Malamute/wolf hybrid to my Golden to my Bernese Mt Dog always got to do, because they were a fine combination of temperament and socialization.

I think the big breeds are amazing, and had I more room now I would have one. And I think many small breeds, including Cavaliers (our other one is a sweet galoot) are wonderful. But you have to understand that some breeds are often high strung and if that's what you get you have to compensate through socialization, training and management. And you still end up sometimes with a pain in the ass. Fortunately my little one loves humans, cats, everything but other dogs in public places. *sigh*

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:27 PM

55. As a kid, had a Chihuahua that literally kicked a German Shepherd's rear.

But, I'd rather get bitten by a Chihuahua than a Shepherd.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:29 PM

58. Dachsunds are nippy. So are Collies. I'd bet Pomeranians are high up too.


Greyhounds are sweethearts.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:32 PM

59. I dunno about aggressive, but the top 3 for stubborn are

1) Goldens
2) Labs
3)Golden/lab crosses

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Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #59)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:59 PM

71. No way

Retrievers are major thieves and can be stubborn with giving things up or ending play time, but they are nothing compared to some hound breeds when it comes to overall stubborness.

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Response to independentpiney (Reply #71)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:33 PM

99. You said it.

I have Basenjis here. I have had to revise many of my ideas about dogs and "obedience". They are good dogs, just very, very stubborn.

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Response to surrealAmerican (Reply #99)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:35 PM

100. We say that about our doxies..

They're smart enough to know exactly what you want them to do, but damned if they'll give you the satisfaction.

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Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #59)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:45 PM

109. And I'd add Dachshunds to that list as well. n/t

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Response to AngryOldDem (Reply #109)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:49 PM

114. +1 n/t

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Response to X_Digger (Reply #114)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:52 PM

117. Ours has finally accepted the concept of housebreaking after three years.

We don't think it has been a matter of her being slow, just her finally deciding to do her business on a consistent basis outside is okay.

Just one of many examples of her bullheadedness.

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Response to AngryOldDem (Reply #117)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:53 PM

118. As I mentioned elsewhere..

Doxies are smart enough to know exactly what you want, but damned if they'll give you the satisfaction.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:33 PM

60. Pit Bulls were once used to look after children. They were referred to an Nanny Dogs

Surprising, no?

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Response to notadmblnd (Reply #60)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:40 PM

64. not this crap again

It's not true. I would call it an urban legend but it's a story that was really crafted for a specific political purpose. I could post links debunking but the pit bull nuts would call them all "biased."

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Response to Nine (Reply #64)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:47 PM

66. Ahem

I have friends in rescue who take offense to being called "nuts", as do I.


You know not what you speak of. But we expct this "crap" once in a while.

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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #66)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:27 PM

125. I apologize.

I should not have used the term "nut."

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Response to Nine (Reply #64)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:23 PM

89. Yes, it is true.

All you're doing is stupidly latching onto the dog hating media hysteria that's trying to rewrite our history.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:37 PM

61. My miniature dachshund is vicious when it comes to toys.

I'm just glad I don't have a squeaker inside me. He can gut a toy in under a minute.

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Response to Solly Mack (Reply #61)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:41 PM

65. LOL!

We gave up on soft toys after our doxie tore apart one my wife made from thick canvas outdoor furniture fabric, stitched together with the heavy thread they use for putting buttons on furniture.

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Response to X_Digger (Reply #65)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:49 PM

68. That's determination! I'm constantly sewing up toys.

We found a dinosaur toy with Chew Guard that he hasn't been able to mutilate yet. It's peppered with holes from his teeth but so far it still has its squeaker. He's annoyed with that toy. I get it from his toy box and he puts it back.

I get a kick out of watching him attack toys. He's just so adorable! I spoil him. I admit it.

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Response to Solly Mack (Reply #68)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:56 PM

69. With two doxies and one doxie-mix, we don't have enough thread. ;)

The one that lasted the longest was like a kong toy covered in rip-stop nylon- the stuff that they make tow straps out of. Took about two weeks for Jasper to get to the center of it.

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Response to Solly Mack (Reply #61)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:43 PM

107. Mine destroyed a plastic squeak toy in about a minute.

Would not give up until the squeaker was out.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:38 PM

62. I have a chihuahua and he's a sugar...

But DO NOT get between him and his food.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:38 PM

63. When I was a kid, we had two neighbors with lots of dogs.

A half a mile down the road was a guy with about 20 mutts, big ones, part collie, part shepherd and other larger breeds. A half mile up the other way was a man who bred Pekingese and Pomeranians and had about 20 of them at any given time. All these dogs ran loose. (It was a rural area in the 60s). Guess whose house we were afraid to walk by? Those little shits would bite your ankles and even make you bleed sometimes, but the big dogs would only lick you to death.

That said, the little dogs caused little damage. If the other bunch had decided to, they could have had us for lunch.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:49 PM

67. big dogs

have the musculature to cause serious damage
chihuahua, not so much

on another note,
when i was young we had a Siamese that i saw chase more than one German Shepard out of the yard

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Response to energumen (Reply #67)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:47 PM

112. I've seen my own cat do that to a golden retriever

She has never bitten me, but if she did, I would expect a trip to the doctor at best, not a trip to the morgue.

Some people have this "lion tamer" complex where they think they are capable of taming the fiercest of animals. I'd like to point out Seigfried and Roy and what happened when they messed up a little, though they were known for training dangerous animals.

A pet is supposed to be a companion, something that you love, and cherish as a family member. You train it, you take care of it, and it becomes someone you bond with. It isn't supposed to be a wild animal that rips your limbs off when you and it both are having a bad day simultaneously. Maybe if you are Hagrid you could handle that, but around kids, the elderly and non-Hagrid built people, exercise some common damn sense and go with something reliable.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #112)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:59 PM

120. i still have a cat

you dont so much take care of them as you "serve" them. they own us and they are well aware of it.

and i also have a general rule against keeping pets that can kill me

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Response to energumen (Reply #120)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 10:15 PM

140. Yes, while dogs have "owners, cats have "staff".

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:02 PM

73. Nasty little yip-yip dogs, all 3 breeds

My neighbors went from a Rotti to two chihuahuas. They have more trouble with those damn ratdogs than they did with their Rotti - except they're not being eaten out of house and home.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:11 PM

77. I'm pretty sure I can fend-off a Jack Russel Terrier in a fair fight. n/t

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Response to Ian David (Reply #77)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:13 PM

79. But pitt bull defenders never want to acknowledge that

An aggressive temperament combined with a humongous dog is the problem.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #79)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:22 PM

86. Even if you could prove that the breed is not more aggressive or bad-tempered than others...

... the fact still remains that they are a big, giant powerful animal.

If you accidentally step on your Jack Russel's foot, and it nips at you, you might be looking at maybe a couple stitches.

You do the same thing to the wrong pit bull, on a bad day, and it can make your kitchen look like Shark Week on the Discovery Channel.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #79)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:23 PM

90. Ever tried to shake a Jack off your ankle?




I am a Pittie defender. I am a supporter of Detroit Dog Rescue. And I had a great Jack who was a prick, even bit a cop once. And then they became best friends.


http://www.detroitdogrescue.com/

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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #90)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:30 PM

96. Off your ankle?

Okay. I can handle that. I am rightly afraid of a dog that weighs 60 or 70 lbs and does the same. It is exhibiting good sense.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #79)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 03:34 AM

160. A pit bull is not a "humongous dog"

They're solidly medium-sized. 60lbs is a big pit bull.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:11 PM

78. The difference

is that when one breed bites, it takes your arm off. When another one does, it pricks a finger. Also, you are discounting the fact that some let go. I love Doberman Pinschers. I would trust one a lot further than I would trust a German Shepherd. That said, I'd trust a German Shepherd MILES before I'd trust a Rottweiler, simply because they are huge and if the have a bad day, they cause enormous damage given their size.

I'd trust a pitbull about as far as I would trust a lion. They might never bite. Then again, when they do, it is deadly. I want a proven pet. Proven doesn't mean "this dog has never bitten before" either.

Sadly, when they go wrong and make a mistake, you will pay a heavy price. Even more sadly, so will people that didn't invite it by having a dangerous breed like that, either. Adults get mauled by them just as often as children do, and you will never convince me that every single person permanently maimed by them "brought it on themselves".

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Response to Aerows (Reply #78)


Response to baldguy (Reply #92)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:29 PM

127. I don't want to be cured

of having common sense.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #78)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:26 PM

94. not sure how people lose sight of that fact (your first sentence), it's all that needs said

I ain't too afraid of my 94 yr old neighbor's weiner dog that screams bloody murder when he charges me...

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Response to Aerows (Reply #78)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 03:36 AM

161. The pit bull has the least biting power of those three breeds

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:19 PM

83. However, people looking to train a dog in agression will gravitate toward larger breeds. nt

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:22 PM

87. I am so NOT surprised.

I've never met a Doxie who was particularly good around strangers. They're all wary, at best, and will snap but not bite if you try to pet them.

Chihuahuas have the hearts of lions. They have absolutely no idea what size they are and will attack anything that pisses them off. I have known a few of that breed who were good around strangers.

Jack Russells are referred to as "Jack Russell Terrorists" by the friends of mine who have them. They nip more as a process of trying to herd new humans than out of aggression, but they're incredibly hyper dogs.

Poodles used to be the big biters, probably because they were overbred for a while. Now they seem to be factoring in temperament when they select breeding pairs so Doxies have replaced them on the top 3 list.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:22 PM

88. Could it be that pitbulls are kept more isolated than daschunds?

 

That may explain why the pitbulls attempt to bite less frequently. If the little dogs have more contact with children and adults, they have more chance to bite.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:25 PM

93. I've had three Jack Russell's

And all have been intelligent, loyal, loving and very protective of their immediate human family.

They require a firm approach, much like other certain types of breeds. They will NOT tolerate rough or harsh treatment from anyone, including their owners and that is why they are not a breed I would recommend for someone with small children or planning on having children. Even the best of children will occasionally do things, even unintentionally, that can cause pain and a 15lb Jack Russell just knows that the little human is hurting them for no apparent reason.

I am very fond of the breed, but I understand their strengths and weaknesses and how to handle them.

I think many breeds, with the wrong owner, can be a danger, I also suspect that some grossly irresponsible breeders are intentionally breeding certain types of dogs to be more aggressive then is typical for the breed.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:35 PM

101. a good academic article discussing aggression in dogs...

Last edited Mon Feb 4, 2013, 10:18 PM - Edit history (1)

http://www.scribd.com/doc/14810086/Heritability-of-Behavior-in-the-Abnormally-Aggressive-Dog-by-A-Semyonova

Probably everyone understands that all of the dog breeds we have created are a result of our own manipulation of inherited physical traits. Until recently, most of us recognized that much of the behavior of pure bred dogs is also a result of manipulating inheritance: if you want to do sheep trials, you get a border collie; if you get a beagle, he will likely become instantly deaf to your calls if he picks up a scent to track. Once the discussion started about perhaps banning breeds that, as a breed, have a high tendency to attack and kill, everything got confused. People started to dispute the heritability of any kind of behavior in dogs, let alone killing behavior...

You will also not prevent the dog from being what he is genetically predisposed to be. Because the inbred postures and behaviors feel good, fitting the body and brain the dog has been bred with, they are internally motivated and internally rewarded. This means that the behavior is practically impossible to extinguish by manipulating external environmental stimuli. The reward is not in the environment, but in the dog itself! As Coppinger and Coppinger (2001, p. 202) put it, “The dog gets such pleasure out of performing its motor pattern that it keeps looking for places to display it.” Some dogs get stuck in their particular inbred motor pattern. We are all familiar with the golden retriever who just will not come out of the water, the border collie who escapes every afternoon to herd the children at the school playground, and the pointer who gets stuck in his point (sometimes for hours, until the owner finally finds him standing there frozen in the woods – a not uncommon problem during training and competitions)...

The heritability of abnormal aggression in certain breeds of dogs can no longer be denied. We have, first of all, to do with physical conformation. The bodies of these dogs have been selected to be able to execute the killing bite better and more efficiently than other breeds of dogs. These dogs all share a certain physical conformation to the task of killing: the exaggerated jaw muscles, heavy necks and shoulder areas, and body mass that makes defence against an attack much more difficult, often impossible. It remains a fact that if you want a dog who can kill, these are the breeds of choice because they are physically better fit for it than other breeds – no less than the border collie is best fit for herding sheep because of the particular way his body has been shaped by hundreds of years of selective breeding.

But breeders also selected for behavioral conformation. For hundreds of years, they have selected these dogs on the basis of performance for their specific task. To perform well, the pit-fighters had to attack without provocation or warning in a sudden outburst of unbridled aggression and to continue attacking regardless of the responses of the other. The bull- and bear-baiters had to be willing to attack in the absence of species-specific signs that normally provoke aggression, responding to the mere presence of another species, again not stopping in the response to any external stimuli. The dogs used to guard extended farmlands in such countries as France (the Bordeaux) or South Africa (the Boerbull), the slave-chasers (Dogo Argentino, Fila Brasiliero), they were all selected for killing performance at the sight of strangers of another species – thus again a willingness to attack in the absence of the normal signals that provoke aggression in a dog and the unwillingness to stop (sometimes even after the other is long dead).

The bodies and brains of all these breeds have, just like the pointer, the husky, the greyhound and the border collie, been selected so that certain postures and behaviors just simply feel good. These dogs will seek opportunities to execute the behaviors they've been bred for, just simply because the behavior feels good. The behaviors are internally motivated and rewarded, thus the behaviors are not subject to extinction. Learning and socialization do not play a role and will not prevent the behaviors from appearing. The owner of such a dog might hope that learning and socialization could help the behavior to appear only at appropriate moments, however this is unrealistic. It’s also not realistic to pretend that impulsive aggression is not pathological. The environments (the fighting pit, the baited bull, the escaping slave) for which these behaviors were selected as an adaptive response are so extreme that in fact there is no appropriate context for these behaviors in normal life.Functional in the pit or facing the bear, these behaviors must, in all other contexts, be called pathological. In addition, the fact we now know that selection took place for impulsive aggressivity (Peremans 2002) means, by definition, that the behavior will always emerge suddenly and unpredictably, thus always escaping secure control by the owner of such a dog.

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Response to Nine (Reply #101)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 10:25 PM

141. Don't even bother.

Aggressive dog worship is a religion. They don't read or reason with anything that does not pad their absolutism and everyone else is wrong and stupid, even entire nations are stupid; it's true dogma (no pun intended). Take a little truth, wrap it up out of context, insert an immovable belief and display it as a fact. There's a whole lot of myth displayed as fact and a lot of facts dismissed or reshuffled among these comments.... as well as little truth. But don't dare disagree in even the slightest fashion; it's just spitting in the wind. And reason? Forget it. Learning not allowed.

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Response to defacto7 (Reply #141)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 10:43 PM

144. I think you're probably right. (nt)

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:37 PM

102. I've had Dachshunds all my life and the

last ol girl bit my husband cause he tried to roust her from her bed one morning. The bite was so hard his fingernail eventually came off!

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:41 PM

104. No surrpise at all about the Dachshund.

They are very protective and territorial and don't take to strangers at. all. But when they're with their people, they're very affectionate.

We have a soon to be 3-year-old black and tan. She goes ballistic whenever the doorbell rings, and if my kids have people over, we have to slowly introduce them to her. When my daughter brought her boyfriend home last summer, she introduced the dog to him on the front lawn, seeing as that was more "neutral" territory to the dog than the inside of the house. Once she senses that visitors are okay by us, she warms up. But she is not a welcoming hostess by any stretch.

Once a service person came to the house. I picked up the dog and the guy thought it would be okay to try to pet her. Wrong. She snapped at him. Needless to say, now she goes in her cage when repair people come.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:45 PM

110. I've been snapped at a hundred times annoying little yapper dogs...never once by a big dog

So surprises me that report does not.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:46 PM

111. Du rec. Nt

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:48 PM

113. not surprised about the obvious stereotyped ones

but last study that did this had Golden Retrievers as the worst. Weiners before beagles and well sure Poodles way up there too..

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:49 PM

115. I think we agree that bigger dogs cause more damage, which should always be a concern.

Having said that, my experience is that dogs are more dangerous and aggressive when they are afraid. Smaller dogs have more to fear than a larger dog generally speaking. I have been dog sitting a friend's 175 lb Rottweiler, Jessie. He is not trained and has been in the country, away from other dogs his whole life. He is friendly to most people, but has instant dislike of some few. That is the scary part, so he is not meeting anyone new at my house.
The other observation is that all other dogs Jessie meets (all smaller than Jessie), instantly bare their teeth, growl and bark. They are all afraid of him. Dogs I know well that have never been aggressive to other dogs all reacted this way around Jessie. (These meetings occurred either through my fence, or one of the dogs was in a kennel). Smaller dogs are more likely to be afraid of a big strange human than a large dog who is not afraid of you. But I will say this about Jessie, whatever it is that sets him off on some people, it is not fear!

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Response to Dustlawyer (Reply #115)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:58 PM

138. happened all the time with our great dane

smaller dogs would try to dominate him because he was the biggest dog around - it never worked, but they would try. Every once in a while there would be a person he flat out didn't like, like Jessie, and I understand what you mean that it isn't fear. It was like a "I don't trust you around here"

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:23 PM

124. The 12 or more countries that ban breeds like pits aren't likely to be impressed

Belgium; Brazil; Denmark; Finland; France; Canada (Winnipeg, Quebec); the Netherlands; New Zealand; Norway; Poland; Puerto Rico and Sweden.





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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:36 PM

129. No surprise;

perceived need to defend against big guys.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:41 PM

130. I'm on my third dachshund, never had one bite anybody.

Not even vets and groomers.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:48 PM

135. One of the sweetest dogs I have ever had was a cross between

a Dachshund and a Beagle. From the time he was a puppy I would hold him like I would a baby in my arms and he would fall asleep. Sadly as he grew too long for me to hold him he still tried to get into my arms. He succeeded several times and I used to have pictures to show it.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 10:31 PM

142. The study on which this article is based may be flawed...

...since the study does not appear to consider the characteristics of 'Dog Owners', or as I prefer to think of them, the incredibly fortunate humans who share their time, space, and responsibilities with one or more canine companions, whew.

Earlier I posted a link to the pdf of the study in Reply #13, if you want to look at it for reference.

One of my first observations when looking at the study was that it made no reference to the Great Pyrenees, or Pyrenean Mountain Dogs (as they are known outside of North America). I was drawn to make that observation because one of my current companions happens to identify as such. And he is a gentle giant:



However, many Pyrs are very protective, aggressive dogs, because their 'work' is to protect...sheep, llamas, people, etc...from threats - wolves, bears, assailants, home invaders, ... because they are trained to perform that way.

Many 'owners' of little dogs assume that, because of their size, a small canine companion will not be aggressive.

My experience, gained over the vast period of 20 years, is that dogs have absolutely, positively no knowledge of how 'big' they are. Dogs do NOT spend much time in front of a mirror assessing their volume, bulk, muscularity, buffness, or any other human measure of physical dominance. To a dog, a dog is a dog is a dog.

I think that little dogs get a bad rap for aggression because 'owners' of little dogs don't understand that they can be aggressive. Hence, the 'owners' don't attempt to anticipate, moderate, or mediate their small dogs behavior. The only injury that one of my dogs sustained from another dog is representative of this size ignorance: our 110 lb male Bernese Mountain Dog was confronted by an (I guess) 5 pound Chihuahua in a parking lot ... Clancy retreated from the attack and ripped out a claw on the pavement. Need I mention that our big Berner was on a leash, but the tiny, harmless Chihuahua was not.

So, in the next study we need to see the information about the breed's 'owners' - what they understand, expect, or fantasize about their breed's behavior, and how they, the human component, adapt to the expectations.

The human-canine bond is an amazing avenue for species growth...but it's a two-way street.


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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 10:37 PM

143. Responsibility.

I've been a dog lover for 50 years. I have raised a lot of wonderful German Shepherds... which BTW are considered the #1 serious injury causing dog bar none. I would never deny that fact because it's true; it would be irresponsible of me to say otherwise. I have loved and cherished all the GSs I have ever owned and a couple of them were as docile as a mouse, but none of them could ever be taken for granted, even the docile ones. This is being a responsible dog owner, to know your dogs capabilities and genetic disposition and respecting it, not spending time in denial.

I have my opinions as everyone here has theirs. But setting aside personal opinions, at least think about whether you are being responsible or simply denying reality because you want reality to be a certain way. Looking for "stats" on the Internet will take you anywhere you want to go, so be aware to look for the best and most reliable. Outside of that, do as you will. Dogs, even the most aggressive, can be your best ally or your biggest mistake. Don't live in a dream world.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 11:12 PM

145. Doxies, Chihuahuas and Jack Russells are small dogs with minimal jaw power.

As a dog trainer I always joke that if most small breed dogs suddenly grew large we would all be climbing trees to escape them. Small dogs are often more fearful and bite out of fear aggression. However, they are not the most dangerous breeds and they certainly haven't any record of causing human deaths.

I too have known and loved many Rottweilers, Pitts and Shepherds but I have also worked with several extremely dangerous dogs of those breeds.

An aggressive Chihuahua can be picked up and popped into his crate with very little risk. I received thirty eight stitches in my thigh while rescuing a Yorkie from a Pitt/Shepherd mix. There aren't any tinies who can do that to you.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 11:47 PM

146. I am not surprised!

The only time I have ever got bitten was by a little prep held to the mama's breast. I like big dogs not teeny breast huggers.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 11:51 PM

147. And yet,

I can't remember the last time I heard about a Dachsund ripping the throat out of a human or animal.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 12:30 AM

148. I was bitten age 5 by a Dachsund with a scar on my right cheek to prove it

tho it does not show much now as I am in my 60s.

"Peanut" was supposedly "my" (never thought to ask for) dog but 7 year older sister dominated the dog from when he was a new puppy as a gift for my birthday (an age inappropriate pet but this was early 50s extremely rural and a way of life now essentially gone).

We ran three very tame horses and a mule in our large fenced yard fenced essentially treated as large slow dogs and had other horses, cows, chickens, pigs, nearby. Peanut had a bad habit of chasing livestock until one of the yard horses or the mule kicked Peanut to a near death experience. As an aside, most dogs have the sense to be afraid of large pigs.

My parents had a party and barbeque and Peanut took my steak and bit me bloody and stitches in the face and I never saw the dog again.

The other dogs that were around then were my grandfather's hunting hounds. They were all lovers.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 12:34 AM

149. Not surprised at all..

Little ones are always so feisty!

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 12:38 AM

150. I grew up around a rotweiller

She was the sweetest dog.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 12:53 AM

152. There is NO more aggressive breed than this one!

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Response to Kennah (Reply #152)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 06:58 AM

167. ok

 

this is probably the funniest thing i've seen here in a LOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time.

thread over, shut the lights off.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 01:42 AM

156. Dobes are big babies!

We had a Doberman and she was such a sweetheart... very docile. In fact, our black lab attacked her when the lab first arrived. I've known a number of people with Dobermans and they all experienced the same thing. They may look menacing, but they are very gentle.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 03:04 AM

157. Sweetest dog I ever had -Standard Dachshund named Polly

She was our third dachshund, the first two having been run over by vehicles. (30-4- yrs ago it was common to let dogs run unleashed, although the first one to be hit escaped out the door to chase a UPS truck, which it hated.)

My spouse & son spotted Polly at a dachshund dog show. The owners had decided they were not going to breed her because her rump was too narrow for that.

My criteria for having a dog were that it should be female (they don't wander so much, as a rule), short-hair , and potty trained.

Polly was a dear from the minute we got her. She was a little scared of thunder and vacuum sweepers. She'd curl up around my neck at the approach of thunder.

Saddest day was when she had to be put down - she could no longer support her rear legs and care for herself. I still see those big sad eyes as she went out the door for the last time.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 05:44 AM

164. I knew a terrier would be on the list

and the Chihuahua doesn't surprise me at all. The doxie does though.
I'm a fan of bigger dogs. They tend to be calmer and bark a lot less.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 06:21 AM

165. I have 3 dachshunds

They are very yappy. Sable barks at anything that walks past our house. Scooter barks at the cable repair guy. He has even tried to bite his feet. Of course he had steel tip boots on, so it was a little silly seeing that. That is the only person he has tried to bite, though.

My guys are all bark and no bite. And they are worse when they are all together. If they are alone they are the kindest creatures ever.

They just want you to know they are there. They are so low to the ground that have to bark to make sure you know they are below you. They don't want to get stepped on!!

Oh and here are my little angels


Scooter has big teeth!!

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