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Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:07 PM

Sandpaper Spelling Assignment At Florida Middle School Leaves Kids Bleeding, Parents Outraged

Sandpaper Spelling Assignment At Florida Middle School Leaves Kids Bleeding, Parents Outraged

Florida sixth grader Josh Sommer is upset that a school assignment has left him with a bloody scabbed fingertip.

Anna Garrett, a teacher at Burns Middle School in Brandon, Fla., handed students corrected spelling exams and told students to trace each corrected word five times on sandpaper, five times a day for five consecutive days. Josh, 11 years old, tells WFTS that his finger started to bleed by the 125th repetition.

"Then by the end of the time, my whole table was bleeding," he told WFTS. When students complained about the pain, the teacher reportedly told the children to sit down and keep quiet. "I didn't want to get yelled at by my teacher."

Parents are accusing Garrett, an educator of 27 years, of abusing children. She is on paid administrative leave until school officials complete an investigation and determine whether to bring her back into the classroom. The local sheriff's office is also investigating the incident.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/30/sandpaper-spelling-assign_n_2581732.html

204 replies, 13667 views

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Reply Sandpaper Spelling Assignment At Florida Middle School Leaves Kids Bleeding, Parents Outraged (Original post)
The Straight Story Feb 2013 OP
tk2kewl Feb 2013 #1
datasuspect Feb 2013 #2
patrice Feb 2013 #55
Union Scribe Feb 2013 #64
patrice Feb 2013 #71
patrice Feb 2013 #76
patrice Feb 2013 #78
patrice Feb 2013 #79
patrice Feb 2013 #81
patrice Feb 2013 #84
patrice Feb 2013 #90
Union Scribe Feb 2013 #185
justabob Feb 2013 #3
longship Feb 2013 #23
dlwickham Feb 2013 #82
Canuckistanian Feb 2013 #139
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #155
Canuckistanian Feb 2013 #170
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #176
Lydia Leftcoast Feb 2013 #201
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #203
LiberalFighter Feb 2013 #4
MineralMan Feb 2013 #5
proud2BlibKansan Feb 2013 #6
justabob Feb 2013 #8
proud2BlibKansan Feb 2013 #13
justabob Feb 2013 #18
proud2BlibKansan Feb 2013 #28
trixie Feb 2013 #106
proud2BlibKansan Feb 2013 #108
trixie Feb 2013 #112
proud2BlibKansan Feb 2013 #121
The Straight Story Feb 2013 #127
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #134
proud2BlibKansan Feb 2013 #141
proud2BlibKansan Feb 2013 #138
The Straight Story Feb 2013 #143
proud2BlibKansan Feb 2013 #151
The Straight Story Feb 2013 #154
proud2BlibKansan Feb 2013 #163
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #162
gollygee Feb 2013 #142
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #148
proud2BlibKansan Feb 2013 #157
gollygee Feb 2013 #160
The Straight Story Feb 2013 #75
proud2BlibKansan Feb 2013 #80
The Straight Story Feb 2013 #83
proud2BlibKansan Feb 2013 #87
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #98
gollygee Feb 2013 #147
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #187
kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #85
proud2BlibKansan Feb 2013 #89
Blue_Tires Feb 2013 #10
JVS Feb 2013 #69
Erose999 Feb 2013 #52
appleannie1 Feb 2013 #86
proud2BlibKansan Feb 2013 #7
MattBaggins Feb 2013 #11
proud2BlibKansan Feb 2013 #15
MattBaggins Feb 2013 #16
proud2BlibKansan Feb 2013 #25
madfloridian Feb 2013 #32
Control-Z Feb 2013 #57
proud2BlibKansan Feb 2013 #62
Ian David Feb 2013 #104
proud2BlibKansan Feb 2013 #107
trixie Feb 2013 #105
proud2BlibKansan Feb 2013 #109
trixie Feb 2013 #113
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #115
proud2BlibKansan Feb 2013 #119
trixie Feb 2013 #204
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #114
gollygee Feb 2013 #149
Sadiedog Feb 2013 #122
proud2BlibKansan Feb 2013 #124
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #137
Sadiedog Feb 2013 #191
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #192
Sadiedog Feb 2013 #198
proud2BlibKansan Feb 2013 #199
Sadiedog Feb 2013 #200
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CreekDog Feb 2013 #196
Ikonoklast Feb 2013 #9
proud2BlibKansan Feb 2013 #26
Ikonoklast Feb 2013 #44
proud2BlibKansan Feb 2013 #63
derby378 Feb 2013 #96
proud2BlibKansan Feb 2013 #145
Scootaloo Feb 2013 #169
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #29
Ikonoklast Feb 2013 #48
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Ikonoklast Feb 2013 #53
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #56
Ikonoklast Feb 2013 #61
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #95
proud2BlibKansan Feb 2013 #68
11 Bravo Feb 2013 #12
proud2BlibKansan Feb 2013 #14
11 Bravo Feb 2013 #17
proud2BlibKansan Feb 2013 #22
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #31
Puzzledtraveller Feb 2013 #42
Union Scribe Feb 2013 #67
proud2BlibKansan Feb 2013 #70
madfloridian Feb 2013 #35
snooper2 Feb 2013 #40
Waiting For Everyman Feb 2013 #19
proud2BlibKansan Feb 2013 #24
Waiting For Everyman Feb 2013 #34
madfloridian Feb 2013 #41
Waiting For Everyman Feb 2013 #45
madfloridian Feb 2013 #46
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #50
Union Scribe Feb 2013 #66
madfloridian Feb 2013 #77
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #99
gollygee Feb 2013 #153
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #156
gollygee Feb 2013 #159
proud2BlibKansan Feb 2013 #172
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #33
Waiting For Everyman Feb 2013 #37
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #39
Waiting For Everyman Feb 2013 #43
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #47
trixie Feb 2013 #110
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #118
lpbk2713 Feb 2013 #20
deutsey Feb 2013 #27
Recursion Feb 2013 #21
madfloridian Feb 2013 #30
cali Feb 2013 #36
madfloridian Feb 2013 #38
jberryhill Feb 2013 #51
proud2BlibKansan Feb 2013 #65
Rider3 Feb 2013 #54
GoneOffShore Feb 2013 #181
Demo_Chris Feb 2013 #58
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #59
proud2BlibKansan Feb 2013 #72
The Straight Story Feb 2013 #73
Demo_Chris Feb 2013 #93
The Straight Story Feb 2013 #94
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #130
The Straight Story Feb 2013 #140
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #167
Demo_Chris Feb 2013 #179
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #100
proud2BlibKansan Feb 2013 #102
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #116
proud2BlibKansan Feb 2013 #120
Bucky Feb 2013 #60
proud2BlibKansan Feb 2013 #97
Whisp Feb 2013 #74
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #101
Whisp Feb 2013 #103
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #117
Whisp Feb 2013 #123
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #128
Whisp Feb 2013 #129
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #132
Whisp Feb 2013 #146
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #150
Whisp Feb 2013 #161
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #177
madfloridian Feb 2013 #88
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #111
gollygee Feb 2013 #158
madfloridian Feb 2013 #166
greytdemocrat Feb 2013 #91
AngryOldDem Feb 2013 #92
Orrex Feb 2013 #125
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #126
gollygee Feb 2013 #136
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #178
justabob Feb 2013 #193
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #194
justabob Feb 2013 #195
gollygee Feb 2013 #131
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #133
gollygee Feb 2013 #135
leftstreet Feb 2013 #144
The Straight Story Feb 2013 #152
madfloridian Feb 2013 #168
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #171
gollygee Feb 2013 #164
proud2BlibKansan Feb 2013 #165
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #173
Union Scribe Feb 2013 #188
Starry Messenger Feb 2013 #190
pauldemmd195j Feb 2013 #174
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Ed Suspicious Feb 2013 #180
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #183
abelenkpe Feb 2013 #182
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #184
Ed Suspicious Feb 2013 #186
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left is right Feb 2013 #197

Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:08 PM

1. sick

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Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:09 PM

2. was she a christian?

 

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Response to datasuspect (Reply #2)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 04:24 PM

55. Personally, I wonder if there wasn't somekind of Christian fad to "save America" by teaching in

its public schools - perhaps it was some years ago and kind of synched up with what is a fairly documentable Christian push to "save America" by getting on school boards, only the "teacher vocation" was for MORE "Christian" mommies and succeeded pretty well on the fact that they were therefore available to their own children when they weren't in school.

Just a theory . . . .

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Response to patrice (Reply #55)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:40 PM

64. Your theory appears to lie in tatters

since there are teachers in this thread saying it's some old and valued technique. I find it dubious, but no more so than immediately assuming she belongs to some group you want to villainize.

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Response to Union Scribe (Reply #64)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:54 PM

71. Anecdotal evidence is only anecdotal evidence. Here's some anecdotal evidence of my own:

I taught in Oklahoma for several years and saw many instances in which religion ranked over curriculum.

You also assume that I want to villainize some group, when I was just theorizing something based upon my own experiences. Can you substantiate your justification for that prejudice about me? and . . .

May I ask why you feel such hostility toward me?

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Response to Union Scribe (Reply #64)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:03 PM

76. I might also mention that you obviously don't know how theories are validated, or not, by means

of various rational processes, none of which I have claimed, but you have, that is, you have made that claim without doing the science to support it.

Again, evidence of prejudice of somesort. Do you hold others around here to such hypocritical criteria?

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Response to Union Scribe (Reply #64)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:08 PM

78. However, to show you how open minded I am. I accept your criticism & propose a change in my

terminology from "theory" to "hypothesis".

All better now?

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Response to Union Scribe (Reply #64)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:10 PM

79. You're always as nasty to me as you can be. Care to state your problem with me out in the open? nt

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Response to patrice (Reply #79)


Response to Union Scribe (Reply #64)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:15 PM

84. For example, why didn't #2 rate your bile? nt

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Response to Union Scribe (Reply #64)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:32 PM

90. Speaking of "villainizing", wouldn't it have been better to ASK me my attitude toward Christianity?

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Response to patrice (Reply #90)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 10:42 PM

185. FFS pal, get it together.

You don't need to reply-bomb me.

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Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:12 PM

3. shades of Dolores Umbridge nt

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Response to justabob (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 02:42 PM

23. You beat me to it! nt

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Response to justabob (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:13 PM

82. I was thinking the same thing

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Response to justabob (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:34 PM

139. Maybe that's where she got the idea

She certainly doesn't have grasp on reality

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Response to Canuckistanian (Reply #139)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:43 PM

155. or maybe she got it from the US government's Head Start website. Or any one of a million other

 

reputable education resources.

Alphabet Knowledge Strategies

To teach the alphabet

Display the alphabet in the classroom at children's eye level. Place letters where children see them, touch and manipulate them (for instance, magnetic or sandpaper letters), and use them where they work and play.

http://eclkc.ohs.acf.hhs.gov/hslc/tta-system/teaching/eecd/domains%20of%20child%20development/literacy/edudev_art_00012_061405.html



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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #155)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 10:05 PM

170. I'd make them stop at the 10th repetition

Not the 125th. That's just how I roll.

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Response to Canuckistanian (Reply #170)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 10:19 PM

176. The video shows the card with directions. FIVE TIMES for each word they missed on a spelling

 

test. and given that a 5th-6th spelling test is usually about 20 words, even if he missed every word on the test, he wasn't doing anything 125 times a sitting or a day.

Piss-poor reporting in all the print accounts. You can clearly read what the assignment was in the video.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #176)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 01:18 AM

201. You didn't see the part where the kids were told to do five sessions of tracing each word 5 times a

day. That's 25 right there, and if the kid missed five words, that's 125.

Even if not done in sequence, repeated stress to the skin can cause bleeding.

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Response to Lydia Leftcoast (Reply #201)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 01:22 AM

203. no, i just saw it misreported as such in the media. the video shows the actual directions given

 

to the students. in type, on a card.

the teacher is mrs garrett.

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Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:13 PM

4. If she did that she should be fired and lose her teaching credentials.

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Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:15 PM

5. That teacher is an abject moron.

Fire her at once, and cancel her credentials.

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Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:16 PM

6. Kindergarten and preschool teachers teach letter recognition with sandpaper

So do special ed teachers. I have a set of sandpaper letters in my classroom that I use with kids who need them.

No bleeding yet. Am I doing it wrong?

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #6)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:22 PM

8. looks like *this* teacher was doing it wrong

but hard to say until more comes out. I can see how using sandpaper letters would be helpful as a tactile tool, but it looks like this teacher went a little too far with it.

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Response to justabob (Reply #8)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:49 PM

13. You do realize this is based on the report from an 11 year old?

And children NEVER exaggerate to get their teachers in trouble.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #13)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:58 PM

18. that is why I said "looks like" and "until more comes out"

I know teachers are under siege, but that doesn't mean there aren't actual mistakes made from time to time. Maybe the post just below mine was right and super duty sandpaper was involved rather than fine grit.... or something.

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Response to justabob (Reply #18)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 02:49 PM

28. Well call me strange but I'd rather have more information before calling the teacher a moron

Last edited Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:42 PM - Edit history (1)

or insisting her credentials should be revoked.

I'd be serving a life sentence if I had been penalized every time I've used sandpaper in my classroom.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #28)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:45 PM

106. But it ok to call the student a liar?

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Response to trixie (Reply #106)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:48 PM

108. Because children never lie or even exaggerate?

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #108)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:54 PM

112. So the poor teacher against the big bad child?

Kids bleeding, it's over the teacher was wrong.

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Response to trixie (Reply #112)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:07 PM

121. A kid who presses his finger hard enough to make it bleed.

Come on. Wouldn't you expect a 6th grader to know better than that?

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #121)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:13 PM

127. But it wasn't just one kid (nt)

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Response to The Straight Story (Reply #127)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:29 PM

134. where are the others? the only evidence is that *this* kid says so.

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #134)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:36 PM

141. Only one in the linked story.

But seriously, one kid goes on TV to talk about his bad teacher and pretty soon, you've got another, and another. Step right up, kids.

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Response to The Straight Story (Reply #127)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:34 PM

138. Yes, you keep saying that.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #138)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:37 PM

143. See my post below, and the school spokesman said it too:

However, spokesman Steve Hegarty doesn't believe abuse was a motive.

"There are some students complaining that it hurt their fingers and we don't think that's a good way to learn," he said.

Read more: http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_east_hillsborough/brandon/teacher-accused-of-abusing-child-with-sandpaper#ixzz2JzL2K4Vv

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Response to The Straight Story (Reply #143)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:41 PM

151. Over 6 million copies sold.





No injuries reported. Yet.

This book must not be on the required reading list at that school.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #151)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:43 PM

154. Depends on how it is used. If you throw it at someone it could cause harm

Like guns, hundreds of millions here but a few misuse them and people suddenly want them banned - I don't judge all by the few but I don't see how protecting the few helps anything.

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Response to The Straight Story (Reply #154)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:54 PM

163. I'm glad you brought that up.

Maybe you should think about the gun banners before you post another 'bad teacher' story.

I want more information. I want to know what we can do to keep our kids and ourselves safe while preserving the rights of Americans to be responsible gun owners. I realize it's a complex issue and my friends who own guns are all responsible citizens who carefully lock up their weapons and would never use them to harm another human being. I would never support any plan to take their guns away.

I also have spent 30 years in education, doing work that is incredibly stressful and intensely rewarding. I have shared the expertise I have here on this thread in an attempt to explain that yes, there is an appropriate use for sandpaper in our classrooms. Did this teacher use it inappropriately? I don't know. I've been teaching long enough to know better than to take the word of an 11 year old - or several 11 year olds - who are on the TV complaining about their mean teacher.

It's not such a difficult concept, now is it?

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Response to The Straight Story (Reply #143)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:52 PM

162. yet 3 year olds can do it without injury.

 

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #121)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:36 PM

142. If it was more than one kid

it was a group at a table doing it on purpose for some reason. There is no way a kid that age is going to know not to rub their finger against sandpaper hard enough to bleed. This story is stupid. I can't get over it. This is a very very common teaching method, not even some "outside the box" thing like it says in the article, except I think it's more commonly used for younger kids. My kids both did it in preschool and never bled. They were like 4 or something and knew not to press their fingers down that hard.

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Response to trixie (Reply #112)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:38 PM

148. If a kid is bleeding, you have to report it or you're in deep shit. according to the kid, she told

 

him to sit down, shut up and do his work when he showed her his finger.

i don't believe it.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #148)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:45 PM

157. Every. Single. Day. ~ I am told "my teacher wouldn't let me go to the bathroom"

during my cafeteria duty.

Some classes I see at the bathroom, washing their hands, taking care of business, right before they come into lunch. But kids in those very classes ask - EVERY DAY - if they can leave the cafeteria to use the restroom, because "my teacher wouldn't let me go".

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #148)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:50 PM

160. You have to go to your supplies and get a fresh pair of gloves

and go through a whole process. Blood is treated like a big deal in the schools these days. It isn't something any teacher could just ignore.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #13)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:02 PM

75. Not just 1 parent/student, and it was not letters but regular sandpaper

And it was for heavy material removal (the sandpaper)

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Response to The Straight Story (Reply #75)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:11 PM

80. I use regular sandpaper all the time in my classroom.

I have sandpaper letters as well as sheets of sandpaper for writing. I've also cut my own letters out of sandpaper because that's less expensive than buying the ready made ones.

Here are some examples:



http://www.simplelittlehome.com/2012/09/montessori-sandpaper-tracing-letters.html



http://practicalmama.com/2009/01/home-made-sandpaper-letters/

It's a very widely used technique. And I don't appreciate being accused of abusing children. I've taught nearly 1000 children to read and write and never once have I abused any of them.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #80)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:14 PM

83. Did they have to trace 125 words at a time?

I dunno, seems a tad excessive to me.

Teachers use tape in class all the time too, but some have used it to tape mouths shut.

And another teacher at the school shoved a shoe in a kid's face, I am sure most do not use shoes that way.

Lastly, millions own guns and most don't use them to harm others - but anyone owning one now gets called a gun nut/etc.

This teacher seems to have went a tad overboard (and it was not just one student complaining).

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Response to The Straight Story (Reply #83)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:27 PM

87. I teach younger students. I wouldn't make them do 125 words ever, even on regular paper.

I have no idea if that is excessive for middle school. I've never taught middle school so I don't judge those teachers. But my dad was a middle school principal and he often talked about what a difficult age group it was.

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Response to The Straight Story (Reply #83)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:12 PM

98. 25 a day, and not all at once.

 

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Response to The Straight Story (Reply #83)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:38 PM

147. It wasn't 125 at a time

it was less than that, but the whole point of doing it is to have some repetition. Both my kids did this, and much much younger than 6th grade - more like preschool - and both knew enough at that age to not hurt themselves doing it. I mean they're pressing down their own fingers. It isn't hard to just not press down ridiculously hard. You'd have to work at it to hurt yourself.

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Response to The Straight Story (Reply #83)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 10:44 PM

187. the assignment was to trace each missed word FIVE TIMES. NOT 125. The teacher didn't

 

'shove a shoe in a kids face', she supposedly 'threw a soft shoe' at a student. we have no idea what the context of that action was, or even what a 'soft shoe' is.

you don't know what happened in this case. the technique is common and well-accepted.

we don't know why the kid's finger was red.

but 3-year-olds can do the task without harming themselves, so why can't an 11 year old?

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #80)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:16 PM

85. I guess I'm clueless. I don't get how sandpaper helps kids learn to read.

When I was in school everything was construction paper and I did just fine.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #6)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:25 PM

10. maybe the wrong grit was used??

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #10)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:50 PM

69. My suspicion is that the kids pressed too hard.

And by that I don't mean to say that I think the kids pressed really really hard. I just think that they started out not realizing how many times even a moderate rub would add up and how it would feel. Their assignment meant rubbing however many words they got wrong x 125.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #6)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 04:13 PM

52. I am wondering what grit was used. Maybe this teacher used 40 grit where she should have used 400.

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Response to Erose999 (Reply #52)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:19 PM

86. 60 grit according to the link

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Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:19 PM

7. It's a Montessori technique

If Maria wasn't dead, would you turn her in for child abuse?

http://www.ehow.com/how_4523511_use-montessori-sandpaper-letters-teach.html

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #7)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:32 PM

11. If she left her students bleeding... yes

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Response to MattBaggins (Reply #11)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:52 PM

15. Somewhere around 100 years of using this method and no blood yet.

But let's all jump to conclusions before we have all the information.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #15)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:55 PM

16. Not jumping to any conclusions

you asked a hypothetical and I gave a conditional.

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Response to MattBaggins (Reply #16)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 02:44 PM

25. Maybe not you

But several in this thread are calling for the teacher to be fired.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #15)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 02:53 PM

32. It's an accepted method for learning.

Most teachers of students with learning problems have them in the classroom.

You are right.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #15)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 04:34 PM

57. I've never heard of it.

Now I'm trying to imagine how it helps with spelling. Would you mind explaining the process to me? When I read the OP I assumed the sandpaper exercise was punishment for spelling a word wrong. With your responses, however, it appears to be a learning tool.

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Response to Control-Z (Reply #57)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:35 PM

62. It's called tactile learning. Also referred to as kinesthetic.

Any time you connect visual (which is how spelling is taught) to tactile, or touch, you increase the opportunity for permanence - or something we remember. Primary teachers do it every day. Feel the letters as you do when you trace them on sandpaper, and you're more likely to remember them. I've also used raised letters, which I make from several layers of liquid glue allowed to dry until you have created a raised surface over the image of the letter. There is also raised line paper which helps the children learn to write in a specific space, like the lines on a paper. I used to buy it but it was very expensive so when they cut our budgets I started making my own using liquid glue traced over the lines on the paper. This gives them visual and physical boundaries to help them learn to write within the lines.

But yes, I use sandpaper letters nearly every day with my kids who are still learning their letters. They're easier to make than the raised letters and it's a method that works (or I wouldn't do it).

Other kinesthetic methods include tracing the forms of the letters on the student's back. But as soon as a student complains that his teacher was touching his back, then we'll probably have an OP here claiming a teacher was hurting a child. That seems to be the pattern at least.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #62)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:44 PM

104. Where did this go wrong here? n/t

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Response to Ian David (Reply #104)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:47 PM

107. Well, you would hope that by 6th grade, a kid would be intelligent enough

to avoid pressing so hard on the sandpaper that his finger bleeds.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #15)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:44 PM

105. Um, we have generations of teachers in our family

I have never, ever heard of this. Sounds crazy. Montessori method? Come on!

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #109)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:55 PM

113. Montessori method?

For cripes sake.

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Response to trixie (Reply #113)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:58 PM

115. anyone who's been in K-12 education or early childhood ed knows what montessori is. forgive

 

me if i disbelieve your story about 'generations of teachers'.

i'm not even in education, and *I* know what montessori is.

if your family has 'generations of teachers,' they're singularly uninformed about their own field.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #115)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 05:41 PM

204. Why yes I do know what the "true Montessori method" is

a bunch of bunk. If you use the "true" method you do not make any child do anything. They happen on it themselves. You would not have to force sandpaper letters (shudders) for no kid would be forced to do anything. Ah the Montessori method where 12 years olds don't have to know how to read.

We don't believe in unschooling, homeschooling or the Montessori method. So you can see your little taunt to me was for nought. Nice debating though.

Perhaps this link will enlighten you.

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Response to trixie (Reply #105)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:57 PM

114. yeah, right. i believe you, sure, that's the ticket.

 

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Response to trixie (Reply #105)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:39 PM

149. Generations of teachers in my family too

and two kids who have done Montessori preschool, and I've certainly heard of it. It's very very common.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #15)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:07 PM

122. Interesting. I teach at Head Start and have never seen this method used,

of course that means little. I think there are better ways to teach than this, even for tactile learners.

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Response to Sadiedog (Reply #122)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:33 PM

137. That's interesting, since they're specifically mentioned on the government's Head Start webpage.

 

Strategies to Promote Alphabet Knowledge

- Display the alphabet in the classroom at children's eye level. Place letters where children see them, touch and manipulate them (for instance, magnetic or sandpaper letters), and use them where they work and play.

http://eclkc.ohs.acf.hhs.gov/hslc/tta-system/teaching/eecd/domains%20of%20child%20development/literacy/edudev_art_00012_061405.html

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #137)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 12:00 AM

191. Not all Head Start employees look at the website for curriculum ideas.

We have lots of resources other than that but I`ll check it out. We use magnetic letters in my classroom and have the children write in shaving cream on a table. I just had never heard of the sandpaper letters but as I said that does not mean some teachers are not using this in their classrooms.

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Response to Sadiedog (Reply #191)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 12:12 AM

192. of course they don't, but its inclusion suggests it's government & Head-Start-approved pedagogy.

 

There are a million hits on the internet about sandpaper letters. it's a commonly used technique.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #192)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 12:54 AM

198. I was not saying that it wasn`t just mentioned that I had never heard of it before. nt

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Response to Sadiedog (Reply #191)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 01:00 AM

199. Oh please don't bring up the shaving cream.

It has chemicals in it and if the kids eat it, they could get sick and well, that's a whole nuther thread . . . .

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #199)


Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #199)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 01:20 AM

202. Well, it is important to check what is in the product that you use. I`ve never had a kid eat it but

I`m certain it could happen. We are now using something called silly foam or something like that but not because of children eating it but due to the scent put in the shaving cream. I think there are arguments to be made for and against most teaching methods. I`m not sold on the sandpaper but I`ll look into it.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #7)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 12:33 AM

196. i went to Montessori, thankfully did not learn to read or spell that way

and jeez, if a kid is bleeding the teacher needs to get involved.

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Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:22 PM

9. If she was a parent and did that to her kids, she would have been arrested on the spot.

Why isn't she cooling her heels in county?

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Response to Ikonoklast (Reply #9)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 02:45 PM

26. I did this with my own children and wasn't arrested.

Imagine that.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #26)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 03:36 PM

44. You caused your own children to harm themselves enough to bleed?

Wow.

Just, wow.

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Response to Ikonoklast (Reply #44)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:37 PM

63. I used sandpaper to teach them to learn letters and to spell words.

And since they didn't press hard enough to hurt themselves, there was no blood involved.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #63)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:10 PM

96. As long as nobody's getting hurt, I'm cool with it

That teacher in the OP was just being abusive and snotty. It's the difference between an S&M flogger and Davy Jones' cat-o-nine-tails.

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Response to derby378 (Reply #96)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:38 PM

145. Actually my kids are smart enough to know not to press hard enough to make their finger bleed.

But I do have some exceptionally bright kids.

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Response to Ikonoklast (Reply #44)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 10:00 PM

169. "Proud2blib" believes the kids are liars

And that the entire story is fabricated, and even if it's not, well, the kids deserve it for being too stupid to know sandpaper can hurt you.

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Response to Ikonoklast (Reply #9)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 02:51 PM

29. are you for real?

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #29)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 04:05 PM

48. Are you?

Lemme see here, DIL is a social worker, older brother is an attorney that has years of experience as a GAL representing abused children, I sent them a link to this story to see what they thought

Both said if they were made aware of an abusive situation such as this done by a parent, law enforcement would have been called by them both as mandatory reporters.


I see knee-jerk defense of a teacher who may or may not be abusive, and accusing the child of being a liar.

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Response to Ikonoklast (Reply #48)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 04:08 PM

49. i see knee-jerk attack on a teacher who used a well-accepted technique in reading education.

 

from people who apparently don't know anything about reading education & believe everything they see in the paper if it suits their biases.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #49)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 04:14 PM

53. Incorrectly, it would seem.

Also seems that there was enough evidence to do an investigaion.

Biases, indeed.

Circle the wagon mentality.

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Response to Ikonoklast (Reply #53)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 04:28 PM

56. any parent complaint will prompt an 'investigation.' anti-teacher, anti-public school mentality.

 

combined with ignorance about pedagogy.

biases indeed.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #56)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 05:11 PM

61. We shall see.

Teachers are most definitely human and fallible even if you fail to see that truth.

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Response to Ikonoklast (Reply #61)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:09 PM

95. I never said they weren't. So are newspaper reporters, editors and publishers. So are 11-year-old

 

boys and their parents.

So are posters at DU.

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Response to Ikonoklast (Reply #53)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:47 PM

68. They investigate every complaint, regardless of the apparent evidence.

And if you really have social workers in your family, they would know that.

Teachers are put on leave every day for reports of suspected abuse, and an investigation follows the report. The evidence doesn't determine whether or not an investigation is conducted.

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Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:48 PM

12. Kinesthetic learning is a valid educational tool. For some kids, it's the best way ...

to learn. I have used sandpaper letters in my classroom to good effect. I can see where repeated tracings could possibly draw blood, if a lot of pressure was applied; but I have never had a student get so much as a slight abrasion via this technique. The child is supposed to lightly rest a finger on the sandpaper and trace the letters or numbers.
Something about this story doesn't add up.

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Response to 11 Bravo (Reply #12)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:51 PM

14. For starters it's from an 11 year old kid.

Am I the only one who would like to have more information before revoking this teacher's certification?

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #14)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:55 PM

17. No, you are DEFINITELY not the only one!

Shit, some people already have her imprisoned. As I noted, I have used sandpaper letters for years without any issue whatsoever.

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Response to 11 Bravo (Reply #17)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 02:38 PM

22. Well we have some here who spend much of their time bashing teachers

and posting every bad teacher story they can find.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #22)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 02:51 PM

31. +1.

 

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Response to 11 Bravo (Reply #17)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 03:26 PM

42. One poster above was only concerned whether the teacher was a christian

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #14)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:46 PM

67. You've said that a few times, about the 11 year-old

You seem to be implying that kids' stories aren't to be trusted when they say something happened to them.

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Response to Union Scribe (Reply #67)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:53 PM

70. I'm saying kids have been known to exaggerate.

Happened to a friend just recently. She sat at home for several months while an allegation made by a student was investigated. He had made it up, finally admitted it, and the teacher was allowed to go back to work.

Note I am not accusing EVERY kid who has ever reported abuse of lying. I would imagine the majority are being honest. But yes, some do indeed exaggerate. I am willing to bet every teacher in every school can report an incidence of a kid exaggerating or falsely reporting abuse by a parent or teacher. Yes, it does happen. That's why I am saying I will wait for the investigation before I demand this teacher be fired and/or lose her teaching credentials.

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Response to 11 Bravo (Reply #12)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 03:02 PM

35. I used them also, most of our teachers did. Accepted technique.

Something is really off in that OP article.

I notice the spokesperson for the district seemed unaware of the method.

That's what happens when people who have never been in a classroom respond so quickly.

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Response to 11 Bravo (Reply #12)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 03:18 PM

40. So are you using 60 grit or 1500?

Makes a big ass difference...


And if anybody tried to have my daughter do that I'd throw the sandpaper to the side and just bust a grinding wheel out

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Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 02:02 PM

19. Writing it that many times would've done some good.

"Techniques" like this are ridiculous nonsense.

It's shocking to think that numerous generations before this learned how to write and learned how to spell without sandpaper... and yet they learned those skills better than students today... I wonder why that is?

Maybe concentrating on the "what" of learning instead of the "how" made some difference. We are process-obsessed. And content-challenged.

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Response to Waiting For Everyman (Reply #19)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 02:42 PM

24. Maria Montessori

How many generations of our children have her schools taught?

Sandpaper letters and writing are some of her most widely practiced techniques.

So no, we haven't really educated generations without sandpaper. If you went to preschool you probably used sandpaper letters since Montessori techniques and resources have been widely adopted by most of our preschools.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #24)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 03:00 PM

34. Excuse me, I was taught without sandpaper, and I'm not that old.

Montessori was a fringe system until about the 70s in the Balto/DC area, which is hardly backward. So no, it hasn't been around all that long. Meanwhile, since the 70s when it and similar ideas became "in", there has been a steady decline in writing and spelling ability.

So in all the decades before that, believe it or not, people learned without sandpaper. Do you think George Washington, and Abe Lincoln, and FDR learned with sandpaper? No, they didn't, trust me on that. I'm really kind of shocked that anybody thinks this is the only way to teach, or even the best way. It's no wonder that education has sunk to a very sad state. (As in, "going in the wrong direction"?)

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Response to Waiting For Everyman (Reply #34)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 03:25 PM

41. Your post is scary to me.

It shows me what teachers are facing.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #41)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 03:39 PM

45. Likewise, this thread makes me scared for kids today.

And our society of tomorrow. With teaching like this, they are so screwed. But then they won't know the difference, so they won't care. It will be a sad world.

My hope is, that computers and the increased ability to self-teach will help. That will be an uphill endeavor though, and not as it should be.

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Response to Waiting For Everyman (Reply #45)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 03:42 PM

46. I would respond to that, but I don't know how.

I have no words.

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Response to Waiting For Everyman (Reply #45)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 04:10 PM

50. "kids today"? maria montessori was born in 1870. children learn through all their senses. that

 

you seem to think computerized 'learning' represents a great advance for toddlers is frightening.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #41)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:44 PM

66. Really?

Scary? Look, I usually have teachers' backs, but I don't think disagreeing with a (literally) harsh method is some threat to the teaching community. I'd never heard of this practice before, and I'm sure most parents haven't either. It sounds as absurd as smacking knuckles with a ruler.

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Response to Union Scribe (Reply #66)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:07 PM

77. It is quite common, used often for those with learning problems, and with primary grades.

Montessori Schools have videos and activities with sandpaper letters. I just watched a couple of them.

I would post more about it here, but too many minds are already made up.

It IS a long time, traditional, accepted technique. But this thread is out of control in its disbelief.

That's what teachers are facing now. We need to accept it I guess and quit worrying.

The teacher is suspended, will probably be fired because her superiors are not well informed on the topic.

It is not a harsh method, it is one that works for many learners.

But what you think is more important than what has been proven to work.

So be it.

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Response to Union Scribe (Reply #66)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:17 PM

99. it's not a harsh method *at all*. you just run your finger lightly along the sandpaper as you

 

trace the letter.

it doesn't hurt, and it doesn't draw blood.

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Response to Union Scribe (Reply #66)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:41 PM

153. This is not at all harsh

It's just a bit tactile for tactile learners. It helps some kids remember better. It's been done for ages. Have you ever touched sandpaper - and they use fine sandpaper for htis. You'd have to work at it to hurt yourself running your finger over it. My kids both did this in preschool, so like at age 4, and they knew enough to rub but not press down that hard. I mean really, get some fine sandpaper and rub your finger across it. Or an emery board even. It is not harsh in the slightest.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #153)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:45 PM

156. it actually doesn't matter what grit it is. none will abrade the skin if you just brush your finger

 

lightly across it.


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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #156)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:47 PM

159. Yeah but the sandpaper used for these

you would have to put serious and major effort into it. It would take some real work. If the kids really were bleeding, they did it on purpose and were determined.

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Response to Union Scribe (Reply #66)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 10:06 PM

172. No one was smacked.

The teacher told the kids to trace the words on sandpaper. Some of them apparently weren't bright enough to avoid pressing so hard their finger bled.

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Response to Waiting For Everyman (Reply #19)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 02:53 PM

33. montessori: born in 1870. "learned those skills better than students today" = you don't know

 

what you're talking about.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #33)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 03:03 PM

37. If you think kids today are better at writing and spelling

than kids in decades past, you are quite wrong. Most people know that, because it's so evidant that one has to go deep into denial not to notice it.

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Response to Waiting For Everyman (Reply #37)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 03:14 PM

39. it's 'evidant,' is it? actually, research says otherwise. despite what you read in the popular

 

media.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #39)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 03:27 PM

43. "Research" can say a lot of things.

Defending failed systems is why we're failing at so many things. If you think public education today is doing a great job compared to the 60s, which by my observation was the high water mark for it, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

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Response to Waiting For Everyman (Reply #43)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 04:01 PM

47. yes, phoney media-generated 'research' can say stupid things like the 60's was the high-water

 

mark for for education.

in 1959 1.6% of the population and 7.5% of blacks were unable to read or write *at all*. In 1969, .7% & 3.6%.

http://nces.ed.gov/naal/lit_history.asp

The national assessment of educational progress has been given since 1971. It's the best test of national student achievement there is, and the results show that *despite* the fact that schools are dealing with a larger & poorer pool of children and a *much* higher % of minority students, achievement has risen.





Furthermore, it shows that the black-white achievement gap has *narrowed*.



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Response to Waiting For Everyman (Reply #43)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:53 PM

110. You have got to be kidding

Back in the early 60s girls weren't taught higher math or science they had to concentrate on home ec and such. Back in the 60s we had prayer in schools, children had corporal punishment etc. Desks were in a line to emulate the assembly line. You didn't talk, certainly didn't question a teacher. Thank goodness we have moved away from that.

The good old days weren't that good. The Montessori method is bullshit.

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Response to trixie (Reply #110)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:04 PM

118. gosh, a couple of posts earlier you'd never heard of it, but now you know it's bullshit.

 

that's quick learning, trixie!

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Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 02:04 PM

20. Is our children learning?




The notorious BushCo legacy.




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Response to lpbk2713 (Reply #20)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 02:49 PM

27. I always loved that photo

It sort of sums up the Bush era for me.

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Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 02:06 PM

21. What?

That's... bizarre.

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Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 02:51 PM

30. It's part of tactile learning, long accepted.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #30)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 03:03 PM

36. long accepted for small children and surely not at the repetition level

that this teacher demanded.

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Response to cali (Reply #36)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 03:14 PM

38. You do not yet know the details.

There is something not right about the Huff Post story. I am sorry, but it is such an accepted method it is pathetic to have to defend it like this.

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Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 04:12 PM

51. In all fairness to the teacher...


She did supply the sandpaper, and didn't make the kids pay for it. That's a welcome change from the notion that has caught on in the last few years that schools require the students to have their own supplies.

So, kudos for that, at least.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #51)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:41 PM

65. She also didn't press down on their fingers as they traced the letters on the sandpaper.

If they pressed down hard enough to make themselves bleed, who is responsible for them being hurt?

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Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 04:15 PM

54. Get rid of that teacher

This is not teaching. This is a form of abuse, which I'm sure the teacher got a thrill over. Would would even think of doing this kind of an "exercise?" She's cruel.

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Response to Rider3 (Reply #54)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 10:35 PM

181. You just read the top post didn't you? You didn't read anything else in the thread.

Unrec.

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Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 04:40 PM

58. I could be wrong, but I am calling BS on this one.

 

Seriously, a SIXTH grader managed to make his finger bleed by tracing letters with his fingertip on sandpaper? This strikes me as ridiculous. This kid was 11 years old, not two.

So... I did an experiment, and I invite you to do the same. Go grab a piece of sandpaper and get sanding. Sand your fingertip, start writing words, and see for yourself how easy or difficult it is to accomplish what this kid did. Warning: Stop when you hit bone!

In the meantime, I am calling BS. This kid missed five words on his test and he's mad at his mean teacher.

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Response to Demo_Chris (Reply #58)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 04:42 PM

59. +1.

 

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Response to Demo_Chris (Reply #58)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:59 PM

72. I'm leaning that way myself.

But I'm waiting to see what the investigation uncovers.

Of course we'll probably never find out. These 'my teacher abused me!' stories always die out after a day or so and we never do find out if the kids' allegations lead to proof of actual abuse.

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Response to Demo_Chris (Reply #58)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:00 PM

73. Well:

This is the second time in four months that Burns Middle School has drawn attention. In September, teachers were asked to be more sensitive after one staff member used a Ouija board as a prop.

The sandpaper incident also follows criticism of district incompetence in light of the deaths of two special needs students, and the arrest of a teacher for shoving her shoe in the face of a student with autism.
...

They were instructed to trace each word five times. By the 125th word, Josh says his finger started to bleed.

Read more: http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_east_hillsborough/brandon/teacher-accused-of-abusing-child-with-sandpaper#ixzz2Jyh4Irii


And it was regular sandpaper, not letters made from it.

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Response to The Straight Story (Reply #73)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:59 PM

93. I just tested it again, longer this time.

 

NOTE: the kid's story could be true. For all we know she's a freaking psycho and she grabbed the kids hand and ground it to the bone. With that out of the way...

I just did another test prior to writing this post. Here are my non-scientic and limited results.

1. I only wrote 60 words (I got bored)
2. I used the same finger the entire time
3. I made no effort to write lightly -- I was going for speed
4. When I really got flying my finger felt some heat burn that ended as soon as I slowed down or reduced pressure (and its gone now)
5. My finger shows no signs of any injury, no discoloration, it's possible I sanded off some skin but I can't see any missing
6. A child (or adult) in pain could and would change fingers, and would make an effort to reduce pressure if it started to hurt, let alone bleed

I could imagine that if one were forced to do this every day, 125 words each day, that by the end of the week one's fingers might be tender. It's POSSIBLE. I have no interest in finding out. Since I am not a teacher I cannot comment on the merit of this method versus just writing the words on paper.

I am still more inclined to believe that this was a young guy who was angry at his teacher and making a scene. But again, I could be wrong.

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Response to Demo_Chris (Reply #93)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:06 PM

94. But again, was not just the one student that complained

He was the only one covered in the story.

And kids can be scared/influenced and not do things like let up out of fear.

You can see the abrasion on his finger in the video and get more details.

Growing up in Ohio and being involved in public schools here over the year, in california, and home schooling this is the first time I have ever even heard of this technique. I also used to work for McGraw-Hill and can't recall seeing anything like that there (though I mainly handled the books we did sometimes get requests from the catalogs for classroom supplies - but the ones that mapped to our programs never had anything like that either that I recall seeing).

Not saying it is good/bad - just totally new idea to me.

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Response to The Straight Story (Reply #94)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:21 PM

130. we know *he says* that other students complained. and we know from the teacher's assignment

 

card *shown on the video* that the assignment was to trace the missed spelling words only FIVE TIMES EACH DAY.

You want to tell me how you got 125 TIMES a day?

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #130)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:36 PM

140. More her (including that the teacher had previously thrown a shoe at a student)

Maybe she was teaching them to play catch...

that his finger started to bleed by the 125th repetition.

So 25+ plus words 5 times > 125

"According to student reports and parental complaints"

""There are some students complaining that it hurt their fingers and we don't think that's a good way to learn," (School spokesman Steve Hegarty - note he used the plural)

We checked Garrett's personnel file. Her most recent available evaluation rates her "satisfactory." But in 2001, school district officials say she received a letter of caution for throwing a soft shoe at a student.

"They were instructed to trace each word five times. By the 125th word, Josh says his finger started to bleed."

Read more: http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_east_hillsborough/brandon/teacher-accused-of-abusing-child-with-sandpaper#ixzz2JzKTl3Eq

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Response to The Straight Story (Reply #140)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:58 PM

167. no. go to the video, which shows the little card with directions the teacher passed out with

 

the assignment.

it specifically says to trace each *missed* word (the words they got wrong on the test) five times. let me repeat that for you: FIVE TIMES.

so unless he missed every word on the test, and she's giving 25 word spelling tests, he wasn't tracing anything 125 times a day.

she threw a 'soft shoe' in 2001. that's the extent of her 27-year career perfidy.

a 'soft shoe'. you have no idea what that means or what the context was. yet it's all more fuel for the fire to you.

you're another one that likes to post every report of a public school teacher doing something wrong but is nowhere to be found when it's a charter school teacher.

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Response to The Straight Story (Reply #94)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 10:33 PM

179. Fair enough, but again I am urging you to test this yourself.

 

Compared to what she was asking this boy to do, I freaking powersanded my finger. And this is a fact -- until I clicked on the "MY POSTS" tab at the top of this page I had completely forgotten my experiment.



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Response to The Straight Story (Reply #73)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:31 PM

100. it wasn't 125 times in a row.

 

handed students corrected spelling exams and told students

to trace each corrected word five times on sandpaper, five times a day for five consecutive days.

Josh, 11 years old, tells WFTS that his finger started to bleed by the 125th repetition.

http://www.wtsp.com/video/2125285920001/1/Teacher-suspended-for-making-students-trace-with-sandpaper

florida

Garrett, an educator of 27 years

"We do encourage teachers to think outside of the box and do things that may be more innovative, but..."

it's not innovative. it's a commonly used technique.

you know, the book "pat the bunny" has a sandpaper page too. for similar reasons.



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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #100)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:36 PM

102. OMG Arrest that author!

Take his license to write away!

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #102)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:01 PM

116. he's a literary abuser!!!! or maybe he's just carrying water for the education deform crowd.

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #116)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:05 PM

120. Daddy's scratchy face will never again seem the same.

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Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 05:11 PM

60. How many of these school teacher horror stories turn out to be overblown or misreported?

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Response to Bucky (Reply #60)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:11 PM

97. About 90% of them.

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Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:01 PM

74. gawd almighty what a horrible teacher. what else did she do in that 27 years.

jaysuz!

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Response to Whisp (Reply #74)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:32 PM

101. what a stupid post.

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #101)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:38 PM

103. of course the kid is a liar

I forgot about that part. If it's inconvenient, the kid is the liar!

Adults are always straight and true.

let's talk further about stupid posts.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #103)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:02 PM

117. i said nothing about the kid, just about the stupid post you wrote. and now you wrote two stupid

 

posts.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #117)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:08 PM

123. I sure hope you aren't a teacher. n/t

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Response to Whisp (Reply #123)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:14 PM

128. i'm not, but i hope you aren't. you're sure johnny-on-the-spot on every teacher-bashing thread,

 

though.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #128)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:17 PM

129. really? 'every' teacher bashing thread?

please show me because I think my dog may be hacking my DU account while I'm away.

you are making shit up. busted.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #129)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:25 PM

132. there are a lot of teacher-bashing threads at DU, so maybe not *every* one. but often enough that

 

i recognize your handle.

busted.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #132)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:38 PM

146. backing the truck up a bit?



I used to chime in on DU2 when there was a certain poster who continually mislead by her headlines and interpretations of stories and would never admit or apologize when proven beyond a doubt she was wrong.

anyway, that was a long time ago and I really don't dislike teachers as a whole (although I probably complained about my useless stupid assed ones) and recognize that it is a very difficult job under crazy difficult circumstances.

Here on DU3 I doubt if I commented on a 'teacher bashing' post more than a hand full, if that.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #146)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:40 PM

150. sure, whisp. sure.

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #150)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:51 PM

161. well I noticed that you are 'always' in threads that bash unicorns

and new born puppies!

prove to me that you aren't!

lol. I think we are at the end of the road. so long, have a nice journey.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #161)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 10:21 PM

177. whatever. anyone can check if they care to.

 

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Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:28 PM

88. Found on a search for "sandpaper letters"...

Here are only a few of what I found.

Amazon sells them.

http://www.amazon.com/Tactile-Sandpaper-Lower-Letters-Grades/dp/B002LHF1F4

Christian schools use them.

http://www.abcjesuslovesme.com/materials-to-make/73Z3mommy-tip

It is a Montessori technique that works in regular schools as well. Good article.

http://jola-montessori.com/article/montessori-reading-methods-work-in-traditional-classrooms/

Here's a lesson from Montessori on the internet:

http://montessoritraining.blogspot.com/2010/11/montessori-insights-and-reflections-of_26.html

Many lower grade classrooms have them in stock already made because it is such a traditional technique.

Could a teacher have misused them. Possibly. She is now suspended, will be fired I guarantee. There are no more protections for teachers at all in Florida.

Should her superiors be aware that it is a technique that is not uncommon at all, often used with learning disabled students?

Of course he should have known. But the video showed he had no clue.



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Response to madfloridian (Reply #88)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:54 PM

111. probably some kind of broadie-bushie administrator, judging from his ignorance about his own field.

 



A children's favorite because it's fun and a teacher's favorite because it works magically! By engaging the senses in fingertips, motion of the hand, and muscle of the arm, children quickly master letter recognition.


In point of fact, the people on this thread screaming "Lock her up!" aren't interested in the facts, they're pushing an agenda. There are literally a million hits on the internet about "sandpaper letters", but they aren't interested.

http://www.google.com/search?q=sandpaper+letters&hl=en&tbo=d&noj=1&ei=IWQQUe7KM6irigKvwYCADg&start=10&sa=N&biw=1024&bih=607

They prefer to paint the 27-year veteran teacher as an incompetent sadist based on a report out of florida. which has been reported quite differently in different media accounts (they had to do 125 words in one sitting -- oh, wait, it was 5 sittings a day over 5 days!)

It's a hell of a lot more likely that she's being pushed out because she's got so many years in and actually knows how to teach. Being that it's florida.

the geniuses on this board would prefer to sit a young child at a computer 8 hours a day and do drill & kill with a little 'reward' video game at the end. that's their idea of childhood development and educational 'innovation'.

talk about fucking sadists.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #88)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:46 PM

158. I'm weirded out by the idea of

someone who has worked in education for long enough to be promoted to that level who hasn't heard of this. You can buy these letters some places. It's like flash cards but tactile. It is so not a big deal to use them.

This whole thread is crazy. This is my list of crazy threads. It's like being upset that kids have sharp tips on their pencils because some kids were sitting around a table playing a game where they stabbed themselves stupidly with their pencils.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #158)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:57 PM

166. Yes, it's Number one in crazy threads.

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Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:41 PM

91. OMG!!!

SPG!!!!

Sand Paper Gate!

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Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:48 PM

92. WTF.

And there is to be an investigation to determine whether to bring her BACK???

Again...WTF?

Charge her with assault and battery.

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Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:10 PM

125. I heard that she also made them hit themselves on the head with a hammer

So that they'd learn how to put on a baseball cap.

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Response to Orrex (Reply #125)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:12 PM

126. I head she made them carve the alphabet into each other's stomachs. And then eat the cutouts.

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #126)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:32 PM

136. The article makes it sound like Delores Umbridge making Harry Potter write

sentences with a pen that carved the words into his arm.

But no, I really doubt a teacher was shaving down her students' fingers to punish them for not knowing a letter. I need to look back and see who reported this because it sounds like the least likely thing I've read in a long time. There's so much teacher bashing going on in news over the past few years, and this sounds like more of it.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #136)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 10:26 PM

178. yes, a couple of posters compared this teacher to Delores Umbridge in all seriousness.

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #178)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 12:21 AM

193. actually my post on that subject was poorly delivered snark

...just for clarification. Umbridge was the first thing that came to mind reading the article, and I thought it was sort of funny because the story was so bizarre. I took some licks further down even though I did not ever in this thread call the teacher a moron or call for revocation of her credentials, jailing, etc This thread has been an eye opener. I guess I don't read that many teacher/school threads and didn't realize the history. This has blown up into way more than I expected. Live and learn, I guess.

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Response to justabob (Reply #193)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 12:24 AM

194. sorry if i misinterpreted your comments.

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #194)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 12:30 AM

195. is my fault

I should have clarified much sooner, but thought the thread was going to die quietly. Boy was I wrong.

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Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:23 PM

131. How hard were they doing it?

This is crazy. This is a really common way to teach letter recognition, and both of my kids' preschools have done it. Kids just lightly run their fingers along the sandpaper - they don't like rub off part of their fingers. The texture is supposed to somehow make it more easily remembered. I don't know how well it works but I know it's crazy common and I've never heard of kids rubbing their fingers hard enough to hurt themselves.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #131)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:27 PM

133. thank you. and if they *were* rubbing it with too much pressure, it seems the pain would make

 

them stop doing so.

and it boggles the imagination that a 27-year veteran would tell a student to 'sit down and shut up,' keep doing the work, when he came to her with a bleeding finger.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #133)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:29 PM

135. It especially seems unlikely

since these days there's a whole protocol when someone is bleeding. It isn't something you can ignore.

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Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:37 PM

144. Anti-public school propaganda makes me wanna sandpaper my ass


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Response to leftstreet (Reply #144)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:41 PM

152. Feel the same way when someone says something about catholic priests/cops/guns/etc

Some folks though are smart enough to see that there are bad apples in everything and calling them out instead of protecting is generally a good idea.

Propaganda to me would be when you want people to believe there are no problems and won't discuss them.

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Response to The Straight Story (Reply #152)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:59 PM

168. Who is doing that? We are presenting the teachers' side....that it is an accepted technique.

The rest seem to be appalled with no reason.

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Response to The Straight Story (Reply #152)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 10:06 PM

171. there are plenty of problems in education. i doubt very seriously that this teacher is one of them.

 

for anyone who actually knows anything about the subject, there are too many red flags in this story.

1. the various reports can't even get the story straight.
2. it's florida, capital of education deform.
3. the administrator acts like he never heard of this technique, though it's quite common (common enough to be mentioned on the government's Head Start website, for example; common enough that there are 1 million hits on the internet.)
4. She's a 27-year veteran teacher, with a satisfactory rating. The worst thing the papers can find on her is that she threw a 'soft shoe' at a student 11 years ago. Sorry, there are too many scenarios I can think of where such an incident could be completely innocuous.
5. if the boy's finger was burning, he could have stopped doing the exercise, or not pressed so hard (he was clearly pressing too hard). SHE WASN'T HOLDING DOWN HIS FINGER.
6. He says he came to her with a bleeding finger and she told him to sit down, shut up and do the work. I don't believe it. MANDATORY REPORTING OF ALL CLASSROOM INJURIES, AND ALL BLOOD EXPOSURE. A FIRING OFFENSE.

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Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:54 PM

164. This thread is crazy

If you would have told me that there would be a thread expressing outrage over the use of something as common and that's been used as long as sandpaper letters, I would think you were joking. If you'd told me a bunch of people would agree that it was bad to use sandpaper letters, and even called it assault, I would also think you were joking.

Do people just not recognize normal and accepted teaching methods like this? These have been used for decades and there haven't been problems. If kids were bleeding on these, they'd have to be thrown out and wouldn't get used. But sandpaper isn't dangerous. This is just plain crazy.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #164)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:57 PM

165. A+

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Response to gollygee (Reply #164)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 10:07 PM

173. AND "CHILD ABUSE". It's a fucking witch hunt.

 

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Response to gollygee (Reply #164)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 10:47 PM

188. It's not common to a lot of us

And for many, like me, it's strange. Some of you need to chill out on calling people crazy and anti-teacher and all this other bullshit when it's our first time encountering a method we find odd.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #164)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 10:52 PM

190. Bingo.

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Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 10:09 PM

174. What in the world?

 

That teacher is truly sick in the head. How could she be so cruel, to little children? She should be canned ASAP.

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Response to pauldemmd195j (Reply #174)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 10:10 PM

175. Here, educate yourself. This is what they were doing. Three-year-olds do it without injury.

 

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Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 10:34 PM

180. As a guitar player I'll tell you emphatically that repeatedly rubbing un-calloused fingertips across

abrasive surfaces can indeed cause blistering and bleeding. There is a lot of mistrust of children in this thread. That seems odd to me.

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #180)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 10:36 PM

183. educate yourself.

 

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Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 10:35 PM

182. Preschool Montessori technique

Why it was used for kids aged 11 is beyond me. And to the point they started to bleed? I'm sorry that's just cruel.

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Response to abelenkpe (Reply #182)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 10:38 PM

184. it's used for older kids for the same reasons as younger ones. sensory-tactile learning.

 

the assignment was to trace each vocabulary word the teacher had corrected FIVE TIMES.

somehow three year olds can do tasks like this, but this 11-year-old made his fingers bleed.

you'd think the pain would have made him stop before he drew blood.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #184)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 10:43 PM

186. 5 times per word, 5 times per day, for 5 days

at a rate of 5 errors, containing 5 letters each, at 5 times per word, 5 times per day for, 5 consecutive days

rub your hand across sandpaper 3125 times and report back.

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #186)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 10:51 PM

189. NO. the directions on the video say, and I quote:

 

You are being given a piece of sandpaper.

With words in your writing that Mrs. Barrett has corrected, or on the 6th grade spelling list on Edline, do the following:

- With the word in front of you out loud spell out the word as you spell it out with your finger on the sandpaper.

- Do this at least five times each day for at least five days in a row.

- Because you are using multiple senses in this activity it will help you remember the word better.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/30/sandpaper-spelling-assign_n_2581732.html

The assignment card is shown at 10 seconds on the video.

None of the print reporting got it right; all exaggerated the number of times the child was supposed to do the task. All got it wrong in the same direction, which seems odd.

The assignment was to trace each missed word five times per day. NOT TO TRACE EACH WORD FIVE TIMES X FIVE TIMES A DAY.


I play the guitar too, Ed. And I get blisters too sometimes: when I play FOR HOURS after a long layoff when the callouses on my fingers haven't had a chance built up.

That's because I'm PRESSING DOWN VERY HARD ON THE STRINGS. not brushing them lightly.

Your guitar playing experience has nothing to do with this story. Teachers don't asks students to grind their fingers into the sandpaper, they ask them to trace a letter by skimming the surface of the paper.

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Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 12:35 AM

197. I am not defending the teacher but

my oldest doughtier was severely dyslexic and one of the tricks that helped her the most was tracing letters in materials of all types of textures. We did sponge, sand and sand paper, velvet, we even used pudding on rare occasions. We traced letters once or twice a day and tried as many different feels as possible

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