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Mon Feb 4, 2013, 11:27 AM

FCC Proposes Groundbreaking Free Public Wi-Fi Throughout United States; Mobile Companies Protest

Last edited Mon Feb 4, 2013, 05:58 PM - Edit history (1)

FCC Proposes Groundbreaking Free Public Wi-Fi Throughout United States; Mobile Companies Protest

by james321

Imagine telling AT&T you're done with dropped calls, or telling T-Mobile you're done with slow data. Yes, elections matter, and the FCC is proposing something spectacular for Americans...assuming that shitting-their-pants mobile phone operators don't kill the mammoth proposal:

The federal government wants to create super WiFi networks across the nation, so powerful and broad in reach that consumers could use them to make calls or surf the Internet without paying a cellphone bill every month.

The proposal from the Federal Communications Commission has rattled the $178 billion wireless industry, which has launched a fierce lobbying effort to persuade policymakers to reconsider the idea, analysts say. That has been countered by an equally intense campaign from Google, Microsoft and other tech giants who say a free-for-all WiFi service would spark an explosion of innovations and devices that would benefit most Americans, especially the poor.

The airwaves that FCC officials want to hand over to the public would be much more powerful than existing WiFi networks that have become common in households. They could penetrate thick concrete walls and travel over hills and around trees. If all goes as planned, free access to the Web would be available in just about every metropolitan area and in many rural areas.

Think about it -- how often do you actually use your smartphone to make phone calls or texts now anyway? For many folks, particularly the younger set, smartphones are about data, data, and data. They use Skype to make calls, Whatsapp to send texts, and Facebook to stay in touch -- all on data. This is why the likes of AT&T now force Americans to purchase unlimited texts and phone minutes -- or otherwise face outrageous per-text or per-minute fees -- because the wireless companies realize that Americans are really carrying around small computers in this day and age -- the 'phone' is only an inconsequential 'app' at the bottom of your screen.

This is a Big Ducking Deal, folks:

The new WiFi networks would also have much farther reach, allowing for a driverless car to communicate with another vehicle a mile away or a patient’s heart monitor to connect to a hospital on the other side of town.

If approved by the FCC, the free networks would still take several years to set up. And, with no one actively managing them, con­nections could easily become jammed in major cities. But public WiFi could allow many consumers to make free calls from their mobile phones via the Internet. The frugal-minded could even use the service in their homes, allowing them to cut off expensive Internet bills.

“For a casual user of the Web, perhaps this could replace carrier service,” said Jeffrey Silva, an analyst at the Medley Global Advisors research firm. “Because it is more plentiful and there is no price tag, it could have a real appeal to some people.”

Unsurprisingly, this is a policy move that would benefit both the wealthiest Silicon Valley tech entrepreneurs and the poorest individuals in America's cities and rural areas:

Designed by FCC Chairman Julius Genachowski, the plan would be a global first. When the U.S. government made a limited amount of unlicensed airwaves available in 1985, an unexpected explosion in innovation followed. Baby monitors, garage door openers and wireless stage microphones were created. Millions of homes now run their own wireless networks, connecting tablets, game consoles, kitchen appli­ances and security systems to the Internet.

“Freeing up unlicensed spectrum is a vibrantly free-market approach that offers low barriers to entry to innovators developing the technologies of the future and benefits consumers,” Genachow­ski said in a an e-mailed statement.

Some companies and cities are already moving in this direction. Google is providing free WiFi to the public in the Chelsea neighborhood of Manhattan and parts of Silicon Valley.

Cities support the idea because the networks would lower costs for schools and businesses or help vacationers easily find tourist spots. Consumer advocates note the benefits to the poor, who often cannot afford high cellphone and Internet bills.

This is a policy that could transform American competitiveness and create thousands of new jobs, as well as diminishing the burden of outrageous wireless phone bills on poor Americans. Waiting for the GOP to cry 'socialism' in 3,2,1...

11:07 AM PT: Email the Commissioners to Express Support for the Proposal:

Chairman Julius Genachowski: Julius.Genachowski@fcc.gov

Commissioner Robert McDowell: Robert.McDowell@fcc.gov

Commissioner Mignon Clyburn: Mignon.Clyburn@fcc.gov

Commissioner Jessica Rosenworcel: Jessica.Rosenworcel@fcc.gov

Commissioner Ajit Pai: Ajit.Pai@fcc.gov

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/02/04/1184523/-FCC-Proposes-Groundbreaking-Free-Public-Wi-Fi-Throughout-United-States-Mobile-Companies-Protest


Original updated with e-mail addresses




Note:

Kos Media, LLC Site content may be used for any purpose without explicit permission unless otherwise specified



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Reply FCC Proposes Groundbreaking Free Public Wi-Fi Throughout United States; Mobile Companies Protest (Original post)
ProSense Feb 2013 OP
Scuba Feb 2013 #1
CaliforniaPeggy Feb 2013 #2
theKed Feb 2013 #3
justabob Feb 2013 #4
alarimer Feb 2013 #104
justabob Feb 2013 #107
Scuba Feb 2013 #5
timdog44 Feb 2013 #84
obxhead Feb 2013 #88
timdog44 Feb 2013 #95
Scuba Feb 2013 #92
ChazInAz Feb 2013 #105
RC Feb 2013 #9
theKed Feb 2013 #11
Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #23
xmas74 Feb 2013 #102
matt819 Feb 2013 #10
randome Feb 2013 #15
Left Coast2020 Feb 2013 #103
HillbillyBob Feb 2013 #54
matt819 Feb 2013 #81
mwooldri Feb 2013 #74
obxhead Feb 2013 #91
Coyotl Feb 2013 #25
Exultant Democracy Feb 2013 #28
mwooldri Feb 2013 #73
quakerboy Feb 2013 #85
grahamhgreen Feb 2013 #98
Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2013 #125
Kablooie Feb 2013 #6
Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2013 #127
NickB79 Feb 2013 #7
Angry Dragon Feb 2013 #13
bobclark86 Feb 2013 #47
Angry Dragon Feb 2013 #52
LongTomH Feb 2013 #87
stonecutter357 Feb 2013 #116
BadgerKid Feb 2013 #8
NickB79 Feb 2013 #20
NYC_SKP Feb 2013 #12
bobclark86 Feb 2013 #14
AllyCat Feb 2013 #24
aquart Feb 2013 #29
madville Feb 2013 #108
bobclark86 Feb 2013 #46
robinlynne Feb 2013 #89
AllyCat Feb 2013 #118
robinlynne Feb 2013 #128
AllyCat Feb 2013 #130
Festivito Feb 2013 #39
Berlum Feb 2013 #16
rocktivity Feb 2013 #17
Sherman A1 Feb 2013 #114
Apophis Feb 2013 #18
EastKYLiberal Feb 2013 #19
aquart Feb 2013 #32
annabanana Feb 2013 #21
NickB79 Feb 2013 #22
ohheckyeah Feb 2013 #59
NickB79 Feb 2013 #60
ohheckyeah Feb 2013 #61
NickB79 Feb 2013 #63
ohheckyeah Feb 2013 #70
annabanana Feb 2013 #65
ohheckyeah Feb 2013 #71
annabanana Feb 2013 #64
SemperEadem Feb 2013 #26
dembotoz Feb 2013 #27
Exultant Democracy Feb 2013 #30
libtodeath Feb 2013 #31
Flaxbee Feb 2013 #35
freshwest Feb 2013 #33
NickB79 Feb 2013 #45
thelordofhell Feb 2013 #34
drm604 Feb 2013 #36
WCGreen Feb 2013 #38
AndyA Feb 2013 #37
forestpath Feb 2013 #40
liberalmuse Feb 2013 #41
They_Live Feb 2013 #42
Ganja Ninja Feb 2013 #43
raging_moderate Feb 2013 #44
NickB79 Feb 2013 #48
raging_moderate Feb 2013 #51
Sherman A1 Feb 2013 #49
DallasNE Feb 2013 #50
jberryhill Feb 2013 #53
TygrBright Feb 2013 #55
DaveJ Feb 2013 #56
octoberlib Feb 2013 #57
robinlynne Feb 2013 #90
Bjorn Against Feb 2013 #100
napoleon_in_rags Feb 2013 #58
Lenomsky Feb 2013 #62
DaveJ Feb 2013 #68
YOHABLO Feb 2013 #66
L0oniX Feb 2013 #67
Lenomsky Feb 2013 #72
reverend_tim Feb 2013 #69
Peace Patriot Feb 2013 #121
reverend_tim Feb 2013 #129
Peace Patriot Feb 2013 #131
reverend_tim Feb 2013 #134
me b zola Feb 2013 #75
jimlup Feb 2013 #76
kentauros Feb 2013 #77
ProSense Feb 2013 #79
kentauros Feb 2013 #80
benld74 Feb 2013 #78
Heather MC Feb 2013 #82
Cynicus Emeritus Feb 2013 #83
rhett o rick Feb 2013 #86
decayincl Feb 2013 #93
ProSense Feb 2013 #96
blackspade Feb 2013 #94
spanone Feb 2013 #97
Auntie Bush Feb 2013 #99
Fedaykin Feb 2013 #101
Phillip McCleod Feb 2013 #109
Fedaykin Feb 2013 #110
Phillip McCleod Feb 2013 #119
Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #122
Fedaykin Feb 2013 #132
Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #135
Fedaykin Feb 2013 #136
Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #137
Fedaykin Feb 2013 #138
Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #139
MineralMan Feb 2013 #117
Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #123
Fedaykin Feb 2013 #133
blm Apr 2013 #140
RKP5637 Feb 2013 #106
patrice Feb 2013 #111
Shankapotomus Feb 2013 #112
snort Feb 2013 #120
davidpdx Feb 2013 #113
harun Feb 2013 #115
Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2013 #124
Bucky Feb 2013 #126

Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 11:34 AM

1. Proud to be 1st Rec! "..the 'phone' is only an inconsequential 'app' at the bottom of your screen."

This would be terrific!

"The airwaves that FCC officials want to hand over to the public" already belong to the public. Leasing them to the phone industry has been a disaster for America.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 11:35 AM

2. What a great idea!

It is just breathtaking. I hope it happens.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 11:37 AM

3. Never happen

The telecom companies have enough money to throw at this to make it go away.

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Response to theKed (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 11:42 AM

4. sadly, I agree

It would be a great thing, and there are a few places that have public wifi, but I don't think our "leaders" have the strength or the will to make it happen.

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Response to justabob (Reply #4)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 11:36 PM

104. Places like Texas have allowed the telecom lobbies to kill public wi-fi

There are actual bills in several states making it illegal to for municipalities to offer free or low-cost internet. Corpus Christi had such a system, until the telecom lobbyists got to them. It is now illegal for cities to compete with Big Telecom.

So yes, I think this proposed system will die once the lobbyists descend.

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Response to alarimer (Reply #104)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 12:00 AM

107. well, I do hope the techcos make the telcos have to fight for it

I think we are finally getting to the point where it isn't just Big Business vs People anymore. The Big Business/Industries have more or less handled the government and public sector by banding together loosely. To go further now, they are going to be fighting each other. It will be interesting, and nothing like the cola/burger wars of old because different industries will be at odds, rather than competitors in the same field. I am hoping that some of the giants will fall and some new opportunities will arise.... not just on the subject of wifi/net stuff, but across the spectrum. We'll see.

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Response to theKed (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 11:43 AM

5. Disagree. The telecoms will fight it, but every single other business sees this as a cost ...

... as does every single American citizen. The public will clamor for this and business will lobby for it.

It will happen. Kudos to the Obama administration for proposing it.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:53 PM

84. cost to business

I thought affordable care act would be a blessing to business, just as this, but that has failed. We can only hope this serves as a cost reduction. Problem is so many relationships between all businesses, what with shared board members and CEOs, etc.

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Response to timdog44 (Reply #84)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:41 PM

88. Really? The ACA has failed?

Funny, it hasn't even fully kicked in yet.

Saying it's failing businesses already is a little premature at best.

WiFi for everyone would not only save businesses money, but likely bring many new customers to their websites if they have them, which if they don't they're crazy.

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Response to obxhead (Reply #88)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:05 PM

95. ACA has not failed.

I just thought business would line up behind it more than it has. Especially if it leads to universal health care. I don't always suppose correctly.

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Response to timdog44 (Reply #84)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:54 PM

92. Businesses spend huge sums on telecom, as they rely more and more on mobile workers ...

... equipped with smart phones. This will be a huge savings for business.

I can't imagine how you thought the ACA would be a blessing to any business other than an insurance company.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 11:45 PM

105. I have high hopes.

Let's never forget what happened to that enormous, hidebound monopoly that was referred to as "Ma Bell". She became so huge and arrogant that her downfall was celebrated. She had so vigorously throttled innovation in telecommunications, that when her heavy hand was taken away, we saw the explosion of portable phones and new technologies that gave us our world today.

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Response to theKed (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 11:54 AM

9. Perhaps you missed this part.

 

The proposal from the Federal Communications Commission has rattled the $178 billion wireless industry, which has launched a fierce lobbying effort to persuade policymakers to reconsider the idea, analysts say. That has been countered by an equally intense campaign from Google, Microsoft and other tech giants who say a free-for-all WiFi service would spark an explosion of innovations and devices that would benefit most Americans, especially the poor.


Google is installing 1 gig Internet service here in Kansas City. AT&T and the cable companies have already up their speeds and services.
We am scheduled for sometime early Summer.

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Response to RC (Reply #9)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 12:03 PM

11. Nope, didn't miss it

Just pragmatic enough to know it won't change anything.

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Response to theKed (Reply #11)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 12:58 PM

23. They'll have a compromise that the speed will be slower than what you can buy.

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Response to RC (Reply #9)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 11:30 PM

102. I know

I'm envious. I can't wait for it to spread to the burbs and a bit beyond. Eventually we'll get it out here too, since we're a rapidly growing college town.

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Response to theKed (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 11:56 AM

10. Never happen - and if it does happen

You can be damn sure that those of us in rural areas will continue to be underserved, overlooked, ignored, or otherwise not be able to take advantage of this proposal.

I am in a rural area. The local cable company doesn't serve us. We're too far for DSL. The expansion of the phone company's high-speed service drops off about a mile from us.

Ain't gonna happen in my lifetime.

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Response to matt819 (Reply #10)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 12:34 PM

15. I'm not an optimist. But I think it can happen.

Google, Amazon, Microsoft and other companies are lining up behind it, too. I think it has legs.

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Response to randome (Reply #15)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 11:31 PM

103. Make that 2 optimists.

And yes damn-it, these airwaves do belong to US!!

http://signon.org/sign/restore-the-airwaves



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Response to matt819 (Reply #10)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 02:35 PM

54. In the sticks here too

We have a choice land-line , too far for optic and land line is pretty sorry at that. Comcrap stops at the town limit, I wouldn't buy from them. I have already had a 3 year battle over a bill..and I have never been a subscriber. We have Exede Satellite service its pretty good most of the time, but weather affects it badly at times.

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Response to HillbillyBob (Reply #54)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:23 PM

81. Re satellite

And the satellite services throttle back after a relatively small amount of usage. Ironic, since EVERYTHING is online - videos here at DU, YouTube, of course, streaming video for TV, etc.

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Response to matt819 (Reply #10)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 04:33 PM

74. What's happening with the frequency channels though will happen.

This new broadband service will be using frequencies that TV broadcast stations presently use. The FCC wants to re-jig the TV spectrum to fit in new broadband services.

Worst case scenario: the frequencies go to the telecoms companies, the FCC clears out the space, the number of terrestrial TV broadcasters goes down... and the telecoms companies don't build out their networks in the rural areas, despite having the frequency space. If they do build it out, expect to be charged an arm and a leg for it. So low income rural citizens will lose a couple of their local TV channels and still have no access to broadband because it either hasn't been built, or if it is built they can't afford it.

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Response to matt819 (Reply #10)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:48 PM

91. I think you missed the WiFi part.

I am one of those often forgotten rural residents too. No cable, dsl, fiber, nothing. Hell, in summer when the trees are in full growth a text is about the best I can expect out of my cell.

However, the only way we can efficiently get high speed internet to the places we live will be through the air. It's cheaper to install in the beginning and much much cheaper to upgrade when new technology comes along.

Will it happen? Not with our current government, but we can change that if there is a will.

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Response to theKed (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:16 PM

25. Too good an idea to fail, I'd say.

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Response to theKed (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:19 PM

28. There are a few cities already moving toards this on their own with google's help.

I actually do some consulting work with a non-profit that is making great headway toward rolling out free wifi in a medium sized city.

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Response to theKed (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 04:23 PM

73. Either way, TV broadcasters lose out.

Reference: http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-12-118A1.pdf

The FCC wants to reallocate TV broadcast signals to be used for wireless broadband. As a result, some stations will have to change their broadcast frequency, become a .2 on another TV station, or cease terrestrial broadcasting altogether. This has effectively been decided that this will happen - sooner or later - and not just in the USA.

Right now it's a case of how to "repackage" the TV broadcast spectrum to keep as many existing stations who want to continue to be on the air broadcasting, and what the new frequency space will be used for. It screws over low-powered community TV stations (still reeling from the analog to digital transition), and reduces choice for the 10 million + people who get their TV only by an antenna. However if AT&T and Verizon get their way, they then have the ability to charge a lot of extra money for even faster 4G-LTE access. On a new device, of course.

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Response to theKed (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:05 PM

85. Do they have more money than Apple and Google?

And Amazon. And Netflix. And hundreds of other companies who's very basic being is tied into people having internet access, and who's audience expands dramatically in the possibility of universal internet access.

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Response to theKed (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:32 PM

98. Right AND A BLACK MAN WILL NEVER BE ELECTED PRESIDENT, FOLKS!!!!!!

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Response to theKed (Reply #3)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 01:29 PM

125. Google, Microsoft and other Tech Giants ...

... support the bill, so their money would counteract the parasitic telecoms'.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 11:44 AM

6. Dream on.

No way this could get through the rich lobbyists.
Nice thought but utterly impossible in today's government.

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Response to Kablooie (Reply #6)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 01:49 PM

127. Microsoft, Amazon, Google, and other tech giants ...

... have money, too. They support this proposal.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 11:44 AM

7. We built the Interstate Road System in the 1950's

And the economic benefits derived from it are almost incalculable. Just try to imagine what our country's economic system would look like today, if we didn't have these nice, straight, smooth, FREE highways to commute on, to ship our goods over, to travel on while on vacation. We would be little more than a 3rd-world nation, forgotten by the more developed parts of Europe and Asia.

Imagine what a nationwide "Virtual Interstate" wi-fi network would get us in the 21st century.

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Response to NickB79 (Reply #7)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 12:29 PM

13. A very different country in the 1950's

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Response to Angry Dragon (Reply #13)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 02:12 PM

47. So? Doesn't mean we can't try...

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #47)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 02:19 PM

52. I never said it was not a good goal

The republicans of today are not the republicans of old

Corporations have also changed ........ they have become monopolies

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #47)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:22 PM

87. +1000 I'm so, so tired of all the defeatist, we'll never do this, we'll never do that talk here!

We need to keep trying, on this, on single-payer health coverage, and on election reform.

Yeah, right now, we're fighting rear-guard, losing battles trying to keep from losing more ground. But, with the help of the young people coming up, we can change things. It may not be in my lifetime; but, it can happen.

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Response to LongTomH (Reply #87)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 09:34 AM

116. +1000 I'm so, so tired of all the defeatist, we'll never do this, we'll never do that talk here!

they are all trolls and paps.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 11:53 AM

8. Make it illegal to impose data plans

just because you have a data-capable phone.

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Response to BadgerKid (Reply #8)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 12:39 PM

20. Ha! That would be great

It would really put the corporations against this between a rock and a hard place then, because there's no way they could afford to provide unlimited data to all their customers, especially if people use their phones as Wi-fi hubs in their homes.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 12:05 PM

12. K/R! (nt)

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 12:34 PM

14. As long as my taxes don't go up $150 a month...

to compensate for my ditched cell phone and home internet, and the service is even close to as good as my Time Warner cable modem and my Verizon cell phone, I'd say build that bitch!

Good use for those Lockheed Martin and General Dynamics guys who won't have missiles to build once we cut the DoD budget to compensate for the project. We have some of the best and brightest engineering minds in this country (and guys from other countries come here all the time, too), so let's turn them from weapons of war to something useful.

Everyone keeps their jobs, taxes stay the same and we stop bringing home my classmates in body bags. How is this not full of teh win?

Oh, wait. It's "people socialism" and not "corporate socialism."

Actually, all the defense contractors find lots of work, so it IS corporate socialism. Just a small handful of companies get shat on, but they'll find other places to make money. It's what their boards pay them for.

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #14)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:09 PM

24. But really, wouldn't $150/mo just replace what you are paying now to some

telecom giant? We have a basic data plan on one phone and a bare bones phone only plan on the other. We pay $125/mo. And that is separate from what we have to pay to keep the home PC running which we were just told will go up to $60/mo this week.

And with this plan, others (i.e. the POOR) would also benefit. I don't see that this would cost $150/mo but if it did, it would be a savings for our family.

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Response to AllyCat (Reply #24)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:19 PM

29. Actually, they could do it for less because the CEO wouldn't be getting that huge bonus.

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Response to aquart (Reply #29)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 12:21 AM

108. That $0.33 per subscriber per year will really make a difference

Just saying a CEO bonus doesn't cost the subscribers much. Verizon CEO got $23,000,000 last year, with 70,000,000 subscribers that's about $0.33 per subscriber for the whole year.

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Response to AllyCat (Reply #24)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 02:09 PM

46. I see the problem...

you see me actually being against this if my taxes go up. I'm not. I wasn't very clear on that point.

I'm cool with paying the same, as long as it works as well, but I don't see why it would have to as the non-profit system doesn't have to charge as much to make shareholders happy.

I would just rather hack down bullshit like the F-35 program and put those engineers, assembly workers and so on into this project at a neutral cost impact (on me and everybody else... we have the cash if we stop spending it on shit).

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Response to AllyCat (Reply #24)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:45 PM

89. There are much cheaper plans. You may have a lot of extras if you're spending that much..

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Response to robinlynne (Reply #89)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 10:15 AM

118. I don't. I've shopped around and even with my employee discount

at the big 3 (Verizon, Sprint, US Cellular), it would still cost this much money by the time all those fees get roped into the bill. So I stick with Credo. It is ridiculous how much this costs. Charter runs our home phone/internet combo and with "fast" speeds, the signal drops several times per hour and we can't get on line. They assure me this won't happen if I pay $99/mo for the faster speed combo with cable TV (we don't watch TV).

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Response to AllyCat (Reply #118)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 04:33 PM

128. I spend 50.00 all together for internet and phone. I dont have the fastest internet speed.

I do have unlimited calling nationwide. 57 including all the taxes and fees.

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Response to robinlynne (Reply #128)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 08:04 PM

130. Dang, where is this?

I've found nothing less than $ 100 for two people, text and calling, 1000 shared minutes.

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #14)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:42 PM

39. Imagine your internet bill going down $50 and your taxes going up $5.

If you have home and phone internet through private companies, you get to pay for each, aside from your phone bill.

One city, I think it was in Tennessee, spent $500 per household 20 years ago for broadband service for everyone. I pay more than that each year and still I don't have the speed they have had for 20 freaking years for one single payment.

Hey, a fool and his money are soon parted, and we're all being played for fools.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 12:36 PM

16. Will Homeland Security also issue us tin-foil hats to ward off RAyS and shit?

?w=402

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 12:37 PM

17. What they complaining about? They're called PUBLIC airwaves for a reason

Broadcast stations and communications companies are renters, not owners. And it's time to re-write the terms of the lease.


rocktivity

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Response to rocktivity (Reply #17)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 04:15 AM

114. Agreed

you hit the nail on the head!

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 12:37 PM

18. I would love to see this implemented.

Then I can tell Sprint to shove it!

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 12:38 PM

19. Our Internet speeds and availability are a joke compared to the rest of the world...

 

The private sector has failed.

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Response to EastKYLiberal (Reply #19)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:22 PM

32. Yes, it has.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 12:39 PM

21. Like the Rural Electrification Administration of the 30's

Internet access has become a necessity in the modern era. It should be part of the commons.

(remember "the commons"?)

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Response to annabanana (Reply #21)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 12:55 PM

22. Excellent analogy!

That goes perfectly with my analogy comparing this to the Interstate System of the 1950's. I'm stealing it

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Response to NickB79 (Reply #22)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 03:01 PM

59. Electricity isn't free. n/t

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Response to ohheckyeah (Reply #59)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 03:10 PM

60. Who said this Wi-Fi would or should be free?

I'll gladly pay $50-$75/mo to use a public Wi-Fi network that is faster and more stable than the DSL I am currently forced to use. That's also what many others here in this thread have said as well.

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Response to NickB79 (Reply #60)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 03:12 PM

61. The article said it:

free access to the Web would be available in just about every metropolitan area and in many rural areas.

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Response to ohheckyeah (Reply #61)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 03:21 PM

63. I would assume our taxes would go up to cover it's operation

So we would all still be paying for it, but we'd share the cost across the 100 million tax payers in this country. Additionally, I'd imagine corporations like Google, Apple and Microsoft would be required to offset some of the cost, seeing as they'd make crazy profits off of millions of new users.

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Response to NickB79 (Reply #63)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 04:10 PM

70. My point was

electricity isn't the same as we each get a bill each month for our electricity. I'm not assuming anything about taxes. I was merely pointing out that it's not the same situation.

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Response to ohheckyeah (Reply #59)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 03:33 PM

65. the Rural Electrification Administration

got the lines up there.. set up the infrastructure. It didn't send "free electricity".

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Response to annabanana (Reply #65)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 04:11 PM

71. Exactly - which was my point.

The article talked about the wifi being free to the consumer.....in other words, they wouldn't get a monthly bill for it.

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Response to NickB79 (Reply #22)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 03:31 PM

64. you can even take credit for it if you like!

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:17 PM

26. excellent idea

it should be free.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:18 PM

27. wow this is an omg type of thing

not holding my breath but


wow

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:20 PM

30. We should replace the 2nd amendment with the right to access the internet.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:21 PM

31. At this point in our history it should be considered a right

without it a child cant be competative in school or get ready for higher education.
One would think all the capitalists that will scream would realize the benefit to business it would be in so many ways.

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Response to libtodeath (Reply #31)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:27 PM

35. Broadband is a legal right in Finland; has been for years

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10461048

it'll be nice if we follow suit.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:24 PM

33. The tinfoil hatters will have a fit!

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Response to freshwest (Reply #33)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 02:09 PM

45. Then they can bitch about it over dial-up

If public broadband is too much for their little brains to handle, I'd imagine a dial-up connection would be just their speed

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:27 PM

34. Remember when the government used to do major projects for the benefit of the people

lobbyists don't

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:28 PM

36. This would be revolutionary.

This would be economic and cultural dynamite.

As far as I can see, everyone other than the phone, ISP, and cable companies, would benefit.

I wonder if the Executive currently have the regulatory authority to do this, or would it require Congressional action?

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Response to drm604 (Reply #36)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:41 PM

38. What would the Apple Geniuses do...

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:29 PM

37. Can't see this passing, it would be too good for the people.

Our government of the corporations, by the corporations, and for the corporations will never allow it.

Lousy customer service, expensive service, slow speeds, and dropped calls are the best these corporations can do, after all, they must protect their executives, who require huge salaries and perks to do their job.

Hope this becomes reality, but will be pleasantly surprised if it happens.

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Response to AndyA (Reply #37)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:44 PM

40. +1

 

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:50 PM

41. It's really sad...

that we can't have anything nice because Corporate monopolies own most of our politicians and branches of government. I'm so sick of being a corporate slave.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)


Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:59 PM

43. Too good to be true.

Imagine saying good bye to cable and satellite TV and crappy internet services.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 02:06 PM

44. I don't like the sentence that mentions "many rural areas"....

rural areas (the people who grow our food, cut our trees etc...) are already at a huge technological, economic and educational disadvantage because of limited high speed internet access. Stretching that divide further worries me as someone who lives in a small town in the sticks - our kids are just as valuable and have just as much potential and talent to foster. I'm all for it, but just as there should have been a national attempt at having fiber optic/high speed lines everywhere, this should be for everybody no matter where you live.

Of course given that it would benefit tens of millions but cost stock dividends to a couple thousand, it might be a tough sell.

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Response to raging_moderate (Reply #44)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 02:12 PM

48. I read the OP to say it would EXPAND service in rural areas

If anything, a rural area currently served by only dial-up or slow DSL (like where I live) would see their speed and coverage go UP under this proposal.

This would help rural familes who are already disadvantaged compared to suburban and urban areas.

This would help close the divide, not stretch it.

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Response to NickB79 (Reply #48)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 02:17 PM

51. that would be my hope!

nt

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 02:13 PM

49. Excellent!

Hope this gets some traction.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 02:15 PM

50. The Airwaves Are Set Up To Be Free

With advertising picking up the tab. Then along came cable that both charges for the service plus also having the advertising money stream. We are never going to get ride of advertising but why not go back to the free, regulated airwaves. This is an area where costs to provide the service are plunging but those cost saving never get passed on to the consumer -- think not, just look at your cable or wireless bills. This is long overdue.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 02:27 PM

53. What's fascinating in all this is...

...I thought we were supposed to believe that private companies can do anything better than the government.

So, why would the telcoms feel threatened?

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 02:38 PM

55. Wow. "Public airwaves"! What a concept... n/t

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 02:39 PM

56. Probably won't see it in our lifetimes

Seems they've been promising a lot of things, but I've yet to see any personally. Smart electric grids, smart car technology, green energy, railroad expansion. At this rate it's gonna take 100 years before these things have permeated our society.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 02:50 PM

57. I bet telecomm companies start backing Republican candidates(if they aren't already)

to fight it. Anything that's good for the American people the GOP is against. I can already hear them screaming about 'socialism' .I love this idea from the FCC!

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Response to octoberlib (Reply #57)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:46 PM

90. if?

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Response to octoberlib (Reply #57)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 11:21 PM

100. Verizon and AT&T are already both major Tea Party donors

I am sure this will make them give even bigger, but let the Republicans stand against this if they want to. My guess is a lot of voters would love the idea of free wireless, if we push this issue it won't be hard to win public support.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 02:53 PM

58. This would be so good for the economy.

Guaranteed platform for universal access that developers of products and services can rely upon being there? Just like the roads? Awesome. Must have.

Telecoms have nothing to fear from this. Just set up devices to use the open band when they can, but to pull extra data off private bands as needed. I doubt a universal service will be able to stream video for instance. This means they will be able to offer unlimited data plans in cities for even less. So long as they control the cell towers, the have something of value: the laws of physics will make those longer waves always go farther than 8011 Wifi waves... A wifi solution can cover a whole city, but only a cell phone will work on the side of the road or on a hike in the woods.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 03:21 PM

62. Great idea ..

.. but destined to fail the cost of infrastructure alone would be massive I imagine.

End double billing on Cellular Networks ASAP it's a total piss take paying to receive incoming calls US-US and worse if the same State i.e. say NY to NY.

Governments make a tidy sum from Cellular Network Licence fees (as you know measured in Billions $$/££) for basically doing zilch if they then offered free data then Network Operators would not renew - they would expire. Although for me it would be a BOOM as I'm a Telecommunications Engineer so I'd have a Green Card ready to go

I'm from the UK you guys pay way too much Telco Services. When I think back maybe 20+ years the US had one of the best and least expensive Telco Networks in the world.

I wish you guys luck but 'it aint gonna happen anytime soon in my lifetime!'

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Response to Lenomsky (Reply #62)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 03:46 PM

68. Yeah, but there are fast food and call center jobs aplenty

Mankind wastes so much energy on frivolous things when there are wonderful achievements available to us, if we put forth any effort.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 03:40 PM

66. It All Sounds Good .. We're all paying too much for phone and internet .. It will..

probably never happen. The communication corps are too big .. too many lobbyist in DC. And so it goes. I would love to see a Democratic Socialist Party established in this country. Won't happen in my life I am afraid. But then, I didn't think I would see a black elected as President. There's hope. Maybe we should all just turn off our phones and televisions .. I am being robbed by ATT&T for sure. And I digress ....

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 03:46 PM

67. What does "breaking ground" have to do with wifi?

Sometimes I just have to step back and look at the words themselves and wonder why they are used.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #67)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 04:12 PM

72. Umm ...

I literally just got the joke in time hehehe - but hey I'm pretty stoned so WTF it's a reasonable excuse.

Night all x

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 03:48 PM

69. That would be a bigger legacy, then whoever it was that brought us the rural electrification program

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Response to reverend_tim (Reply #69)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 01:13 PM

121. "whoever it was"??? Surely our creationist schools haven't edited the "New Deal" out of the history

Last edited Tue Feb 5, 2013, 04:18 PM - Edit history (1)

books yet!

It was "New Deal" SOCIALISTS. It was the president whom the !% called a "dictator." It was the man who said, "Organized money hates me--and I welcome their hatred."

The late great Franklin Delano Roosevelt and his cabal of commie pinko egghead democrats with a small d, whom the American people four times elected to take this country back from the rich assholes who crashed it nearly into oblivion. The New Dealers who put this country back together, fought World War II and left us a legacy of progressive ideas and programs that the 1% have yet to entirely extinguish and that we may yet restore along with our democratic heritage.

But surely you're kidding ("whoever it was").

-------------------------------


At the time the Rural Electrification Act was passed, electricity was commonplace in cities but largely unavailable in farms, ranches, and other rural places. President Franklin Delano Roosevelt issued Executive Order 7037 on May 11, 1935, establishing the Rural Electrification Administration. ...

In the 1930s, the provision of power to remote areas was not thought to be economically feasible. A 2300 volt distribution system was then used in cities. This relatively low voltage could only be carried about 4 miles before the voltage drop became unacceptable.

REA cooperatives used a 6900 volt distribution network, which could support much longer runs (up to about 40 miles). Despite requiring more expensive transformers at each home, the overall system cost was manageable.

REA crews travelled through the American countryside, bringing teams of electricians along with them. The electricians added wiring to houses and barns to utilize the newly available power provided by the line crews.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rural_Electrification_Act
(my emphasis)

--

And here's an interesting item in that much too short wiki article: "1949 - extended the (REA) to allow loans to telephone companies wishing to extend their connections to unconnected rural areas."

Indeed, the modern infrastructure of the United States--roads, bridges, ports, electrification/power, telephone system, public buildings (city halls, libraries, schools, hospitals), etc.--was almost all created by GOVERNMENT WORKERS and OUR TAX DOLLARS, almost all during the New Deal, and some of it (such as freeways and international airports) in later expansions of the "New Deal" notion of "the Commons." U.S. corporations used all of this taxpayer-subsidized infrastructure, and all of its maintenance and expansions costs borne by you and me, to create the transglobal corporate monsters of today, who have loyalty to no country or people, and who are robbing and exploiting us without mercy, including trying to DISMANTLE any remaining elements of the "New Deal" that benefit "the people," such as Social Security, and trying to smash the idea of "the Commons" forever. FDR must be rolling over in his grave at the horrors of "privatization," job outsourcing, the Enron-ization of energy, the decimation of communities, rural areas and small farms, the requirement of possessing a million dollars to even think of running for Congress, oil corporation price-gouging and price-fixing, corporate monopoly of the public airwaves now used for non-stop corporate propaganda, and all the multiple and massive evils of out-of-control transglobal corporations.

We've got our work cut out for us, for sure, to reclaim our country and our democracy--which needs to start, in my opinion, with a REAL "Boston Tea Party" to eject corporate-run, 'TRADE SECRET' voting machines from our election system. But before we can even do that, we need to start REMEMBERING how this country became great during and because of the New Deal. Rural Electrification CO-OPS, taxpayer-funded infrastructure and a belief in "the Commons."

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Response to Peace Patriot (Reply #121)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 04:36 PM

129. Oh they may have, but I do not know as I am not a creationist.

But that is a great post on the REA.
Do you suppose most of our rural patriots realize, that they are using SOCIALISTS electricity and telephone lines?
Anyway, I was attempting to point out that it has been a long time since a proactive government did anything this big. I guess I failed.

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Response to reverend_tim (Reply #129)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 11:50 PM

131. Sorry for being sarcastic...

...but it greatly alarms me how the "New Deal" has been unraveled in recent decades, and, due to corporatization of the public airwaves and of virtually all news, information, opinion and entertainment, and the triumphs of nutballs and loss of history education in our schools, so many people DON'T EVEN KNOW what the "New Deal" was and what it did.

Point to many and probably to most good things in our country, and you will find their origin in the "New Deal"--whether it is labor rights and protections, civil rights, the public education and library systems, all the basic infrastructure of modern life, any notions we still have of "the Commons," of the "common good," of majority rule, of the equality of persons whether rich or poor, of the fair treatment of military veterans, of government's obligation to protect the poor majority from the rich assholes who would rob them blind, and much more--those four terms of the "New Deal" were THE seminal era in the creation of the U.S. as a modern, progressive country. The rich and the corporate have been trying to destroy that great legacy ever since Reagan--including obliterating any memory of it.

So I felt a bit touchy about a failure to attribute the Rural Electrification project to FDR and the "New Deal"--as if to say, anybody might have done it. It WOULDN'T have happened without them, and things would be even worse in our rural areas, and, as a consequence, in our urban areas, than they are now. They also did it right, hooking up everybody for free, and using co-operatives and government-paid workers to get it done. This is true of so many "New Deal" projects--that they not only did the impossible but they did it right--that it's impossible to name them all. Think, for instance, of the local and state histories that would not have been written, and all the documentation of those histories that would have been lost forever, but for "New Deal" jobs programs, which employed unemployed and starving writers to write those histories, as well artists and other talented specialists, in addition to manual laborers for roads, bridges, public buildings and other infrastructure. The "New Deal" saved our soul as a nation, as well as developing it physically and restoring it economically.

I really hate all this Ayn Rand "Wall Street" propaganda, that glorifies the individual rich bastard and tries to make us forget that we are A COMMUNITY and that we are happiest and more prosperous when we build things TOGETHER for the common good, pooling our talents and using our COMMUNAL money--our FAIR taxes--in the way it should be used, "of, by and for" the People.

Sorry for the rant. Sorry for the sarcasm. Yes, I agree with you (except for the "whoever it was").

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Response to Peace Patriot (Reply #131)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 02:27 AM

134. Oh Please do not be sorry, I really did enjoy your post.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 04:36 PM

75. I'm on board!

Hot dang, something to get excited about!

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 04:52 PM

76. In a nutshell this outlines the whole damn problem

We could just solve the problem for the greater good but the fucktards will insist that we not.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 04:59 PM

77. So, who do WE lobby to make sure this happens?

I know the tech companies will be doing their own lobbying, but this is still supposed to be a country of, by, and for the people. So, do we need to form a foundation just to have that high-dollar lobbying influence, too?

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Response to kentauros (Reply #77)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 05:59 PM

79. See the new info in the OP, e-mail addresses.



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Response to ProSense (Reply #79)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:02 PM

80. Oh, great!

Thank you!

Now to figure out how to best word my emails...

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 05:06 PM

78. Am fur it! Jus as long as the teleco's dont find some way to charge ya fur usin it!!!

1st it was the cost of the phones
2nd the cost of the minutes
Then free minutes
then they hit you with DATA plans!!!

Alwaya changing except for their damn service!!!

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:38 PM

82. I use boostmobile, i pay $40 a month for unlimited everything

love love love it!
would to ditch my wireless service at my home. that would save me $45 a month.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:47 PM

83. First we need availability of broadband internet for everyone

 

and not just those in wealthy urban areas.

There is always going to be a power struggle where urban people want more political power than those in rural areas. Equal opportunity should mean what it says for both halves of America. Some Americans have intentionally been turned into a segmented class of impoverished and less educated society by the bankers and media devoted only to prosperity for the few instead of prosperity for the many.

Years ago Pres. Reagan and Judge Green did egregious harm to Americans by breaking up the Bell System. It represented the preeminent communications provider in the world and provided millions of good paying jobs to Americans. America set communications standards. Judge Green's ruling turned us into a third class communications country and did away with the precursor philosophy of WiFi for everyone, Universal Telephone service. Judge Green screwed America and he needs recognized on a USA hall of shame.

The elites wanted a wealthier Wall St and wanted the even CEOs richer, and once done they outsourced millions of good paying US union communications jobs to China.

Judge Green should go down in history as another example of the treasonous influence that has led our nation down the path into poverty and debt for the many, and riches for the few.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:05 PM

86. This is huge. I will believe it when I see it. And how about faster data transfers, maybe like

Japan.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:00 PM

93. I can only imagine

the possibilities. Our school system recently started providing I pads for 4th (I think) graders. They intend to expand to other grades as they are able. The kids will use them at school and are able to take them home at night. Those kids without wi-fi access will only be able to use their I pads at libraries or other places with access. When I first read of this in the local newspaper my first thought was that the poor are disadvantaged once again. Looks like the FCC is way ahead of me, however. The goal seems to be a more even playing field. I'm for that.

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Response to decayincl (Reply #93)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:56 PM

96. Welcome to DU.



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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:03 PM

94. e-mail sent!

What an awesome idea!

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:02 PM

97. k&r...

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:55 PM

99. This would b fantastic...then I ould afford a cell phone!

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 11:28 PM

101. Electromagnetic radiaton and their fields...

 

Last edited Tue Feb 5, 2013, 02:42 AM - Edit history (1)

..will bring us closer to extinction. No thank you!

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Response to Fedaykin (Reply #101)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 01:07 AM

109. woo.

 

we were bathed in the same radiation, and yes radio waves are radiation, all of history. now some of those radio waves are modulated. that's all. before they were 'incoherent' to sentient beings, and now they are 'coherent', but it's no biggie. obviously don't irradiate yourself with the source of an em emission. safety first in science!

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Response to Phillip McCleod (Reply #109)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 02:44 AM

110. Apparently you haven't seen the documentary

 

...nor have you viewed the evidence presented therein. So I question the coherence of your statement.

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Response to Fedaykin (Reply #110)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 10:35 AM

119. true i didn't watch it all the way through but then

 

i didn't watch the video of the geocentrism guy all the way through either. some woo is obviously woo.

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Response to Fedaykin (Reply #110)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 01:15 PM

122. Yes, if some yarblocko posted it to youtube, it must be true.

It's a "documentary", after all!

Sorry, it's woo.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #122)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 12:50 AM

132. Of course Mr. 43,183 posts...

 

Your opinion is THE most valuable thing you have to offer here. It's more about being 'right' then it is about actually having a useful conversation about a possible controversial issue. It's easier to be snide and cynical then it is to present cogent arguments under the rationale of having a civil discussion. There's no possibility that you'll investigate who put out the documentary and what the argument is, no chance whatever that you might even have a look at the film company who produced the film to see what awards might have been won. It's too inconvenient, easier to be derogatory and opinionated. Thanks but no thanks for your opinions!

Loyalty to petrified opinion never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul in this world--and never will.
-Mark Twain, "Consistency" speech and essay

"Oh, dear, we are all like that. Each of us knows it all, and knows he knows it all--the rest, to a man, are fools and deluded..." "...Yet this sarcastic fact does not humble the arrogance nor diminish the know-it-all bulk of a single verdict-maker of the lot, by so much as a shade. Mind is plainly an ass, but it will be many ages before it finds it out, no doubt. Why do we respect the opinions of any man or any microbe that ever lived? I swear don't know. Why do I respect my own? Well--that is different.
- Mark Twain, "Three Thousand Years among the Microbes"

"It were not best that we should all think alike; it is difference of opinion that makes horse races.
-MARK TWAIN, "The Tragedy of Pudd'nhead Wilson"

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Response to Fedaykin (Reply #132)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:11 AM

135. No, it's just that I've already been through this same fucking argument.

It was woo then, it's woo now.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #135)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:30 AM

136. Thanks for sharing your experience with me...

 

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Response to Fedaykin (Reply #136)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 02:46 PM

137. Dude, you're not Mark Twain.

Sorry.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #137)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 06:37 AM

138. Do you think?

 

Apology accepted. Hey here's a quick reference guide to argument. It'll come in handy for the next time you'd care to elaborate your position, or not...

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Response to Fedaykin (Reply #138)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:22 PM

139. Right.

Welcome back.

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Response to Fedaykin (Reply #101)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 09:40 AM

117. You have been surrounded by that all of your life.

Unless you were born pre-1920s. I am not dead, yet, and it appears that you aren't either.

That video is nonsense and woo.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #117)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 01:16 PM

123. ITS HOW THEY BEAM THE THOUGHTS INTO MY HEAD, MAN!

I have contacted the NSA repeatedly, yet they refuse to do anything about the gnomes which come out at night and get toothpaste all over my bathroom sink.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #117)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 12:54 AM

133. See post #132 as it apples to you too...

 

Apparently you have no conception of what the difference is between a rational discussion/argument and an egotistical opinion. Plus it's not even an original opinion Mr. 50,390 posts...

Old Sam Clemens would be right at home with conversations such as these. In his "Corn-Pone Opinions' he had this to say about know-it-alls like you:

"1. It was his idea that a man conforms to the majority view of his locality by calculation and intention.
This happens, but I think it is not the rule.

2. It was his idea that there is such a thing as a first-hand opinion; an original opinion; an opinion which is coldly reasoned out in a man's head, by a searching analysis of the facts involved, with the heart unconsulted, and the jury room closed against outside influences. It may be that such an opinion has been born somewhere, at some time or other, but I suppose it got away before they could catch it and stuff it and put it in the museum.

I am persuaded that a coldly-thought-out and independent verdict upon a fashion in clothes, or manners, or literature, or politics, or religion, or any other matter that is projected into the field of our notice and interest, is a most rare thing--if it has indeed ever existed..."
Get an original thought in your own mind first before you address me sir!

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #117)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 10:37 AM

140. And now pushing RW angle on Marathon bombing.

.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 11:50 PM

106. K&R !!! K&R !!! K&R !!! K&R !!! K&R !!! K&R !!! K&R !!! K&R !!! K&R !!! K&R !!! K&R !!! K&R !!! K&R

K&R !!! K&R !!! K&R !!! K&R !!! K&R !!! K&R !!! K&R !!! and more ...

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 03:24 AM

111. This will be good for people. nt

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 03:38 AM

112. I'll beleive it when I see it

Until then this is just a decoy to placate our stupid attention while they implement their pay-to-play Internet. YouTube is getting close to rolling out paid channel subscriptions, you know. They want our money and they want to take Internet access away from those that can't afford it.

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Response to Shankapotomus (Reply #112)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 10:48 AM

120. Google owns YouTube.

Google owns YouTube and they are pushing for this to happen along with Microsoft and others.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 03:47 AM

113. It's a great idea

I know they tried a version of it in Portland (Oregon) and it wasn't strong enough to really use.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 09:30 AM

115. If it doesn't increase Corporate Profits, Congress won't touch it.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 01:24 PM

124. Not to mention ...

... this would free up consumer costs to be diverted elsewhere into the economy. No phone bill? Good, I'll purchase something with that saving, and that money would be infused into the economy, thus having a cascading effect, which in turn, would lower unemployment.

This is a very good idea.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 01:32 PM

126. Wouldn't this increase the risk of virus & cyber attacks?

The City of Houston has a big free wifi area downtown. It's a cesspool of viruses.

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