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Sun Feb 3, 2013, 10:28 AM

Attn: Gun Owners. This is a PSA. Take 5 minutes and do one small thing for gun safety. U know u can!

i hope you are all enjoying your Sunday!

I'd just like to say- you can do SOMETHING positive in less time than it takes to grind beans and make coffee.

I did something so simple i thought it was pointless until 30 seconds after i did it...

Here's my example-

I have a 60+ year old .22, which hasn't been used since the rabid coyote incident of 2011.

My friend from NYC was visiting, and was asking about casings and firing pins (he doesn't have a gat, and hopefully he'll be seeing less casings on the streets of NYC in the future..)

So I brought 'er out, of the cabinet that you need a step stool to reach, where it lives out of sight and mind. Its also hidden under stuff IN the cabinet, and the bullets are locked away elsewhere.

With all this gun talk going around, I indulged my imagination (one of my talents), and wondered 'what if my wife suddenly had a psychotic breakdown and got all shoooooty' (she'd actually put it in the recycling bin, but that's a whole other topic!)

Well, she could probably find the key for the bullets.

Hid that in an even better place (not that she knew where it was anyway).

Then I kept 'brainstorming'...AHA!

HIDE THE BOLT!
(not something you can get next day amazon)(for non-gun peeps, that's the part that you close after you put in one bullet by hand, and open to eject the casing and put a new one in)

On my .22, you open the bolt, slide it back, MAKE SURE IT IS EMPTY OF COURSE, squeeze the trig, and the bolt slides out.

Then 30 seconds later...duh...if someone STOLE the thing...THEY'D BE SCREWED!!! what burglar is going to spend an hour searching for a piece of a gun that's worth maybe $100? on the black market?

This might seem obvious or something, but I'm just saying-
at least take 5 minutes to think your system through.

Lock up/hide bullets and bolts separately.
If you have a collection, maybe lock up the bolts of non-defense guns in their own safe.
Or maybe buy that safe you've been putting off.
Or a LOCK for that closet..

We've all been hearing about what guns in closets can do way too much lately...

If you feel the need to sleep with one under your pillow, maybe don't keep a round in the chamber...

If its just a BB gun, hide the BBs.

It kind of boggles the mind- there are 100 million gun owners...

how many silly mistakes are we making???

Please Rec this and send it to your friends and such- make it go viral!

(i'll try to condense the above to a more catchy, fwd-able thing. but its coffee time!)

thanks!



113 replies, 6522 views

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Reply Attn: Gun Owners. This is a PSA. Take 5 minutes and do one small thing for gun safety. U know u can! (Original post)
farminator3000 Feb 2013 OP
Recursion Feb 2013 #1
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #3
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #7
Recursion Feb 2013 #8
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #11
nick of time Feb 2013 #2
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #4
Duckhunter935 Feb 2013 #5
Recursion Feb 2013 #6
Duckhunter935 Feb 2013 #28
spin Feb 2013 #45
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #9
NYC_SKP Feb 2013 #10
Recursion Feb 2013 #12
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #13
NYC_SKP Feb 2013 #14
Recursion Feb 2013 #16
Recursion Feb 2013 #17
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #20
ScreamingMeemie Feb 2013 #31
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #32
ScreamingMeemie Feb 2013 #33
GoneOffShore Feb 2013 #41
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #43
SayWut Feb 2013 #15
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #18
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #19
av8r1998 Feb 2013 #61
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #63
kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #21
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #34
av8r1998 Feb 2013 #65
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #71
av8r1998 Feb 2013 #72
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #74
av8r1998 Feb 2013 #75
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #84
av8r1998 Feb 2013 #86
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #91
av8r1998 Feb 2013 #96
av8r1998 Feb 2013 #103
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #105
kudzu22 Feb 2013 #22
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #35
Decoy of Fenris Feb 2013 #23
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #36
av8r1998 Feb 2013 #66
raidert05 Feb 2013 #24
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #37
raidert05 Feb 2013 #46
av8r1998 Feb 2013 #64
sarisataka Feb 2013 #25
dkf Feb 2013 #29
sarisataka Feb 2013 #40
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #42
dkf Feb 2013 #26
rightsideout Feb 2013 #27
SQUEE Feb 2013 #30
av8r1998 Feb 2013 #67
SQUEE Feb 2013 #68
av8r1998 Feb 2013 #69
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #39
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #38
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #44
Mojorabbit Feb 2013 #47
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #50
guardian Feb 2013 #48
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #49
HereSince1628 Feb 2013 #52
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #56
guardian Feb 2013 #53
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #55
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #51
av8r1998 Feb 2013 #54
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #57
av8r1998 Feb 2013 #60
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #70
av8r1998 Feb 2013 #73
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #82
av8r1998 Feb 2013 #83
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #87
av8r1998 Feb 2013 #88
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #92
av8r1998 Feb 2013 #94
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #97
av8r1998 Feb 2013 #102
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #104
av8r1998 Feb 2013 #112
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #93
av8r1998 Feb 2013 #95
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #98
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #58
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #59
wethepeoplesong Feb 2013 #62
geckosfeet Feb 2013 #76
av8r1998 Feb 2013 #78
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #80
av8r1998 Feb 2013 #85
geckosfeet Feb 2013 #90
av8r1998 Feb 2013 #99
geckosfeet Feb 2013 #100
av8r1998 Feb 2013 #101
geckosfeet Feb 2013 #89
bowens43 Feb 2013 #77
av8r1998 Feb 2013 #79
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #81
NCTraveler Feb 2013 #106
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #111
Hekate Feb 2013 #107
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #109
lumberjack_jeff Feb 2013 #108
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #110
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #113

Response to farminator3000 (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 10:29 AM

1. ^ This. Outstanding safety tip.

Thanks for posting that.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 10:31 AM

3. it was just such a DUH moment...

and i'm not dumb, so...

good day, sir!

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Response to Recursion (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:04 AM

7. go ahead and post that in the 'gungeon' if you want...

or should I?

you prob. have more 'cred'...

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Response to farminator3000 (Reply #7)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:06 AM

8. I don't think anybody who knew me when I posted there is still around?

Plus I support a handgun ban so I'm not on the top of that popularity list either.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #8)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:13 AM

11. gotcha.

Oh, the humanity!

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Response to farminator3000 (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 10:31 AM

2. Good post.

 

I keep my guns locked up in a combination safe, the only 2 people who know the combo is myself and my wife.

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Response to farminator3000 (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 10:32 AM

4. i forgot to add, like #2 ^^^, share your ideas!!

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Response to farminator3000 (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 10:35 AM

5. Not a bad idea

Easier with rifles

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Response to Duckhunter935 (Reply #5)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 10:39 AM

6. Every pistol I've ever cleaned, involved taking out the firing pin

Yes, I'd be worried about losing the little spring, but maybe just keep it with the pin? And if you're the sort of person who loses things easily that's a sign that gun storage in the home might not be for you, for that matter.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #6)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 02:30 PM

28. maybee just some of the newer ones

My 9MM comes aprt as part of field stripping but my Ruger and from what I have seen on Glocks you never have you take the weapon down that far. I may be wrong though.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #6)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:19 PM

45. My mother had a little .22 caliber S&W LadySmith revolver ...

that she had used in the 1920s for self defense against an attacker. She hid it in a dresser drawer in her bedroom.

Of course I found it. There was some ammo with it and when I was home alone, I would sometimes get the revolver and load it. I don't remember ever pulling the trigger on this weapon but if I had while it was loaded it would not have made a loud noise.

My father had wisely removed the firing pin.

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Response to farminator3000 (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:09 AM

9. another PSA

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I/chapter-44

that's ^^^ the GCA, but i found this:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/lii/about/about_l(compex? even cornell makes typos!)

Publishing Law

Most of our publishing efforts go into to producing and maintaing the extensive legal collections on this web site. In 2011, we partnered with eLangdell to produce eBooks of the Federal Rules, the first three volumes of a growing collection. Soon, you will find LII-powered collections available for smartphone and tablet use. As the first law site on the internet, we are proud to lend our expertise to new LIIs that develop in all parts of the world. Currently, we helping to build LIIs in Africa.
Helping Understanding

The law is a compex and complicated system of knowledge that is more difficult to find and understand that it should be. While we are not permitted to offer legal advice, we try to develop systems that allow users from outside the legal profession to more easily access and understand the laws that govern them. Our Wex Legal Encyclopedia includes hundred of definitions and explanations of legal topics. The LII Supreme Court Bulletin keeps you apprised of all pending Supreme Court cases and alerts you with the decisions as soon as they are available. LII Announce is our blog that lets you know about what's new at the LII and in the world of legal lnformation and research. And if you are a law student or researcher, you should try our Jureeka! browser plug-in that turns legal citations in web pages into direct links to the relevant item in the LII collections.

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Response to farminator3000 (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:10 AM

10. I have never, ever, seen "casings on the streets of NYC", or in any city for that matter.

And I've lived in some pretty tough neighborhoods in NYC, and been robbed and burgled, never was a gun involved AFAIK.

Nonetheless, your advice is not bad advice.

I have a pretty solid gun safe, but many owners don't so if a person has a gun but can't afford a safe or a trigger lock, then they can pull thing apart.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #10)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:15 AM

12. In the Marines we stored them w/o firing pins in the armory

And when we did parades for dignitaries our bolts were in our pockets.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #10)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:34 AM

13. ok, that might have been a BIT over-dramatic. but have you been to other nameless cities lately?

Last edited Sun Feb 3, 2013, 03:20 PM - Edit history (1)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cities_by_crime_rate

NYC is actually really safe! ^^^

like the guy from Hill St. Blues said...let's be careful out there?

i'm pretty sure my buddy saw the cops picking some up- he was asking about firing pin marks.
i don't think he's shot one, because he was wondering what's left and how they trace it, like he'd never picked up a casing.

so, the cops usually pick them up, and hopefully someone calls the cops if there are a bunch lying around.

Chief Johnson at the hearing said something like 'we find them lying around all the time' which i took to mean there are lots of unreported shootings- lots of people won't even tell the cops who shot them, ya know?

thanks!

how does that work with a more modern gun than mine?

obviously you can pop the mag or cylinder out of a handgun, it must be pretty simple to pop the bolt out of an ar-15, right?

military design and all? (not meant to sound snarky!)

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Response to farminator3000 (Reply #13)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:41 AM

14. It's not as easy as with some of the old-school bolt action weapons.

With an AR15 I think you have to pull some pins and separate the upper and lower receiver, like opening a sandwich, before you can pull out the bolt.

And, sure, anywhere there was a shooting with cops and all you're going to find casings, but the police collect these.

I don't doubt that they're out there where shots have been fired and no police appear.



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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #14)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:50 AM

16. Release safety. Push out takedown pin (the bore brush is good for that). Pivot lower receiver...

... away from upper. Pull out charging handle; bolt will fall into your hand.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #16)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:52 AM

17. Make sure the bolt is forward before you do any of that

Unless you want it to fly out and hit you in the face.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #17)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:17 PM

20. that made me giggle a bit!

are you speaking from experience?

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Response to farminator3000 (Reply #13)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 02:40 PM

31. Spent 27 years of my life in Detroit. The only time I saw a casing on the ground

was after a Memorial Day Parade.

The only reference I ever saw to "casings littering the streets of Detroit" was on the ill-fated television show "Detroit 1-8-7."

Please don't slam on Detroit any more than it already has been. Several of us managed to escape with our lives (even after frequent visits *gasp* downtown). Thank you for your consideration.

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Response to ScreamingMeemie (Reply #31)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 03:09 PM

32. i was worried that would offend someone- i just meant its been in the news a lot lately

i could have said chicago, or DC, or...

i didn't mean it to sound like there are casings lying around everywhere- just that there are too many falling on the streets in general.

just slamming on criminals! i'll change it.

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Response to farminator3000 (Reply #32)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 03:26 PM

33. I appreciate it.

Thank you so much.

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Response to farminator3000 (Reply #32)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 04:23 PM

41. You could have said Philadelphia.

Or Baltimore.

In parts of Philadelphia there are casing hitting the streets every day.

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Response to GoneOffShore (Reply #41)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 04:45 PM

43. philly is up there, too

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cities_by_crime_rate

its pretty messed up-

if ~200 people a day are getting shot, 30 dead, that's every 7.2 minutes.

factor in the misses...so just from crime there are casings falling every...2 minutes? 30 seconds? who knows?

factor in all the recreational use- between dawn on the east coast and dark on the west, there literally are casings falling like...rain?

like the slot machine noise @ a casino?

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Response to farminator3000 (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:47 AM

15. If your state has a 'safe storage' law, consult that first.

 

Storing bolts, firing pins, etc separately may or may not be acceptable.

Finding replacement parts can be a hit or miss deal.
If this place doesn't have it http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufacturers/B.htm (the hard copy catalog is bigger than the NYC phone book), then you have a parts hunt on your hands.

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Response to SayWut (Reply #15)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:08 PM

18. thanks, i was going to mention that, too. BUT...not always such a good idea

New Mexico should require that gun owners store their weapons locked and unloaded, or locked with an essential part of the gun stored separately from the locked weapon.

Do I think everyone will immediately start storing guns safely? No. A few will.

If folks whose kids get hold of their guns (or folks whose unsafely stored guns are taken and used to harm others) pay some high-dollar judgments for their negligence, more gun owners will get the idea.

These are not radical ideas. Three-quarters of the states have laws against unsecured storage of guns around minors and/or letting kids have access to guns. Arizona and California make parents liable for civil damages from a minor's use of a firearm under certain circumstances. In California a person is criminally liable for keeping a loaded firearm where s/he reasonably should know a minor could gain access to it — but only if someone is injured or the child brandishes the gun in a public place. S/he's also liable for damages. Colorado imposes criminal liability for providing a gun to someone under 18, or even knowing a juvenile has a gun and failing to make reasonable efforts to prevent the juvenile's conduct.

In New Hampshire "negligent storing of firearms" is a criminal offense, if the firearm is used in a reckless or threatening manner or in commission of a crime. In North Carolina you're criminally liable if a minor misuses a firearm you've stored "in a condition in which it can be discharged" where you should have known the minor might gain access to it. Even Texas makes you criminally liable (with reasonable exceptions) if you leave a dischargeable firearm where a kid under 17 could gain access to it and s/he does.

Are weak gun laws and gun violence related? You betcha!
http://www.lcsun-news.com/las_cruces-opinion/ci_22408652/their-view-secure-gun-storage-should-be-part

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Response to farminator3000 (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:15 PM

19. also, don't just go by your state laws- there are, of course, some problems...

New Mexico should require that gun owners store their weapons locked and unloaded, or locked with an essential part of the gun stored separately from the locked weapon.
Do I think everyone will immediately start storing guns safely? No. A few will.
If folks whose kids get hold of their guns (or folks whose unsafely stored guns are taken and used to harm others) pay some high-dollar judgments for their negligence, more gun owners will get the idea.
These are not radical ideas. Three-quarters of the states have laws against unsecured storage of guns around minors and/or letting kids have access to guns. Arizona and California make parents liable for civil damages from a minor's use of a firearm under certain circumstances. In California a person is criminally liable for keeping a loaded firearm where s/he reasonably should know a minor could gain access to it — but only if someone is injured or the child brandishes the gun in a public place. S/he's also liable for damages. Colorado imposes criminal liability for providing a gun to someone under 18, or even knowing a juvenile has a gun and failing to make reasonable efforts to prevent the juvenile's conduct.
In New Hampshire "negligent storing of firearms" is a criminal offense, if the firearm is used in a reckless or threatening manner or in commission of a crime. In North Carolina you're criminally liable if a minor misuses a firearm you've stored "in a condition in which it can be discharged" where you should have known the minor might gain access to it. Even Texas makes you criminally liable (with reasonable exceptions) if you leave a dischargeable firearm where a kid under 17 could gain access to it and s/he does.

Are weak gun laws and gun violence related? You betcha!
http://www.lcsun-news.com/las_cruces-opinion/ci_22408652/their-view-secure-gun-storage-should-be-part

***
RESULTS:

Laws that make gun owners responsible for storing firearms in a manner that makes them inaccessible to children were in effect for at least 1 year in 12 states from 1990 through 1994. Among children younger than 15 years, unintentional shooting deaths were reduced by 23% (95% confidence interval, 6%-37%) during the years covered by these laws. This estimate was based on within-state comparisons adjusted for national trends in unintentional firearm-related mortality. Gun-related homicide and suicide showed modest declines, but these were not statistically significant.
CONCLUSIONS:

State safe storage laws intended to make firearms less accessible to children appear to prevent unintentional shooting deaths among children younger than 15 years.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9315767

***

John McGowan of Springfield, who had a license to carry a firearm, was charged in November 2008 by Springfield police with violating the state's gun storage law. The charge came after a female roommate went into his second-floor bedroom, took his loaded handgun from an unlocked drawer in a side table, left the home, threw the weapon into a neighbor's bushes and then locked him out when he tried to retrieve the gun.


Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court upholds state's gun storage law, rejects challenge by Springfield man
http://www.masslive.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/01/massachusetts_supreme_judicial_1.html

McGowan, 71, moved in Springfield District Court to dismiss the charge of improperly storing a firearm, saying it infringes on a Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms in self-defense of one's home. The district court judge said McGowan raised "immense" constitutional issues.

The high court ultimately took over the case.

In a seven-page decision, the court held that state law is consistent with the Second Amendment and is aimed at preventing unlicensed people from getting access to a firearm.

"The prevention of accidents by those not authorized to use firearms, as well as the prevention of crimes of violence and suicide by those not authorized to possess firearms, are among the evils (the state law) is intended to prevent," the SJC decision said.

pretty big news ^^^ there!

***

in Connecticut!-
Frantz said he wants homes with violent histories to have to store their guns in a safe just like homes with children. Only homes with children under 16 are required to do that.
http://kpho.membercenter.worldnow.com/story/20753814/state-senator-proposes-stricter-gun-storage-laws

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Response to farminator3000 (Reply #19)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 07:01 AM

61. Forget state laws

 

Owning a gun, whether for carry, home defense or sport is an ENORMOUS responsibility. They MUST be secured in a manner in which nobody can get at them Triger/Cable locks are NOT SAFE STORAGE as they do not secure the firearm it self. We should not need laws to mandate common sense. If you're not responsible enough to store a gun properly, you're not responsible enough to own one. Period...

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Response to av8r1998 (Reply #61)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 10:31 AM

63. ^^^ thanks, Mr. Responsible Gun Owner!

Last edited Tue Feb 5, 2013, 03:16 PM - Edit history (1)

i'll get to your other post a little later, kinda busy!

great advice!

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Response to farminator3000 (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:48 PM

21. But, but, I gotta be ready for screaming hordes of

icky brown people rioting and pillaging every second of every day!!1!! And the evil gubmint could sent 300 ATF or FBI agents or even army soldiers to my door in an act of tyranny any second now!1!!!1!!

No, no, it's just not safe to secure ANY of my guns, not a single one of the 294 I've stockpiled.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #21)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 03:28 PM

34. maybe make cookies instead? and a pot of tea?

i like your sig line!

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #21)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 11:44 AM

65. Tinfoil Hats

 

Yes there is plenty of tinfoil hattery on my side of the argument.

As for me, I am not waiting for the Zombie Apocolypse, nor am I waiting for evil hords of jack-booted government thugs to pry my guns out of my cold dead hands. (Though I will confess to shooting Zombie Targets at the range from time to time)

The 2nd amendment was written by people who just defeated the largest military force in the world with their civillian owned firearms. You have to be respectful of that, but I am not expecting to go out and overthrow the goverment anytime soon.

I am not a racist, and my training teaches me to avoid confrontation. If I am threatened with violence, I will react with force. If I am threatened with deadly force, I will respond in kind; but in all cases I will attempt to avoid the situation entirely. I'm not a "Gun Troll" either. I am here to make a case to fellow Democrats.

I am well trained and proficient. If you had a gun pointed at you, I am the guy you want with you.

I'm not a truther, birther, tea partier or bible thumper.

My only disagreements with those who want more gun control is in effectiveness, as I believe most of the proposals I have seen out there will not be. I will listen to and support any idea that will achieve the goal of keeping guns out of the hands of those who shouldn't have them.

I earn a living as a firearms instructor. If you have questions, please ask, but please dont't paint every gun owner with a broad brush.
Most of us just go about our business. Our presence is transparent. I don't know where you live, but I would bet my last dollar you walk past one of "us" every day without notice.

I'm the guy your standing behind in a grocery store. I'm the guy at the next table at the diner, or the one you just cut off on the highway. I might even sit next to you at work. Every day you probably come within spitting distance of a gun, and you don't even know it.

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Response to av8r1998 (Reply #65)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 05:17 PM

71. they are preferable to body armor? maybe?

(Though I will confess to shooting Zombie Targets at the range from time to time)

i played castle wolfenstein for 8 hours straight one day (a while ago...)

Nazi zombies!!!
the video game did NOT affect my feelings about the REAL ones...that's a no-brainer...

I'm not a "Gun Troll" either. I am here to make a case to fellow Democrats.

i actually BELIEVE YOU?!?!?

I earn a living as a firearms instructor. If you have questions, please ask, but please dont't paint every gun owner with a broad brush.


i usually TRY to use their words against them, hard to be polite at times...hard to keep track of who is who, also!

Every day you probably come within spitting distance of a gun, and you don't even know it.

this sounds true for a lot of people, probably not me, and slightly menacing, but not coming from you, if that makes sense.






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Response to farminator3000 (Reply #71)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 09:13 PM

72. Titanium is best :-)

 

i played castle wolfenstein for 8 hours straight one day (a while ago...)

Why?

i usually TRY to use their words against them

You have to understand we really ARE on the same page.
Where I have issues with the gun control group is with "Uneducated" opinions. I don't mean that as an insult, but I think that too much focus is put on equipent, and not enough on individuals. One of my big disappointments with the health care law is the lack of focus on mental health. And to be fair, CT has one of the best state health programs in the country; but if you have a mentally ill relative, good luck getting them treatment before they hurt themselves or someone else. It's disgusting, especially when you attend the funeral of a 24 year old kid who just took his own life, because they cant get him into a hospital. Been there, done that. Hope never to again.

this sounds true for a lot of people, probably not me, and slightly menacing, but not coming from you, if that makes sense

It makes sense, but not intended to be menacing. We (CCW holders) are all around. We don't generally make a spectacle of ourselves.

In real life, I am one of the most passive guys you'd ever meet. People say I wouldn't say "shit" if I stepped in it. I don't carry a gun to be a "tough guy", and chances are, unless I'm teaching you or you're on a shooting range and I'm an RO or another shooter, you'll never see me with a gun. (That doesn't mean I don't have one on me)

But thanks for your kind words.
Repubs don't have a monopoly on the 2nd amendment, and that's kind of why I'm here.
If you have questions, please ask.
I will answer them as well and as honestly as I can.

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Response to av8r1998 (Reply #72)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 11:39 PM

74. i LOVE blasting nazi zombies, you got a problem with that?!?!?

And to be fair, CT has one of the best state health programs in the country; but if you have a mentally ill relative, good luck getting them treatment before they hurt themselves or someone else.

i've actually had luck when it mattered there, i know what you mean, definitely a MAJOR problem.

I don't carry a gun to be a "tough guy", and chances are, unless I'm teaching you or you're on a shooting range and I'm an RO or another shooter, you'll never see me with a gun.


that is the way to be!

Repubs don't have a monopoly on the 2nd amendment,


hoo boy, don't get me started. the tiahrt, lawful commerce in arms, and the 'nameless' act that blocks the CDC research all HAVE TO GO!!!

thanks a lot!

edit: i don't blast nazi zombies as much now that i'm married...entirely different battles!

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Response to farminator3000 (Reply #74)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 07:35 AM

75. Now I have questions

 

Mods - If this belongs on a separate thread, please advise...

"the tiahrt, lawful commerce in arms, and the 'nameless' act that blocks the CDC research"

Tihart - Please explain why this needs to go. Maybe I don't understand, but Tihart requires the gov't to destroy the records of Federal Background Checks for firearms purchases. Do you believe that this will prevent Straw Sales? If so, maybe it is a good idea, but I don't know much about it. A proper investigation would reveal the history of a firearm whether from gov't channels or other means. Keep in mind that this tool is only useful AFTER a gun has been used in a crime and recovered. Dealers already keep records (by federal law).

Lawful commerce in arms - are you referring to FOPA? Why is FOPA a problem? I hold 4 pistol permits which allows me to carry a loaded firearm concealed or openly in 34 States.
In addition, the following states allow me to carry openly without a permit:
ME, NM, CO, KS, NV, OR, and CA all allow Open Carry (and posession) without a permit.
RI, NJ, SC, FL & IL have laws allowing transportation (Not carry) without a permit.

So I can posess in 46 states.
FOPA is very important in CT, because 2 of the 4 states that don't provide for ANY sort of posession are MA and NY. (We can't really leave without crossing through those states) and NY will NOT issue a non-resident permit.
(The other 2 are MD, and HI)

CDC Research - Again, I don't understand why this is important... can you expain?



WATCH OUT FOR THE NAZI ZOMBIES!!!!


(Not trolling - I want to know!)


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Response to av8r1998 (Reply #75)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 11:32 AM

84. ^^^ good questions!

i'll start off bluntly-
those 3 pieces of....'legislation', to be polite, are the holy trinity of 'NRApublican' (they are one and the same) bullshit. their one and only purpose is to sell mor gunz, and all 3 'pieces' are shining examples of the 100% backwards logic of these despicable fear mongers. it is a simple and obvious plan, to me-
1. interfere with all police trying to stop gun crime and esp. the 'black market'
2. protect all makers, dealers, AND private citizens who are engaged in said 'BM"
3. sweep all facts about how dangerous guns actually are under the rug

that sounds diabolical, i know, but...
the whole thing is hidden behind this barrage of propaganda, and 'laws' that are almost unreadable. the only thing they give a crap about is holy frikkin' $$$.

ok, now a more measured response-

The Tiahrt Amendments, named for their original sponsor, U.S. Representative Todd Tiahrt (R-KS), are provisions attached to federal spending bills that make it harder for law enforcement officers to aggressively pursue criminals who buy and sell illegal guns.
http://protectpolice.org/facts

***

for me, all i have to do is look at the guy's face, and his voting record confirms my suspicions.

talk about divisive bullshit. they could have called it the GW Shrub, Jr. Act.

http://votesmart.org/candidate/key-votes/21953/todd-tiahrt#.URJ7rmckWTw

Dec. 21, 2010 HR 2751 FDA Food Safety Modernization Act Concurrence Vote Passed - House
(215 - 144) Nay

Dec. 15, 2010 HR 2965 Don't Ask, Don't Tell Repeal Act Concurrence Vote Passed - House
(250 - 175) Nay
"With nearly 10 percent of Americans off the job, we should be working to stop the massive tax increases set to take effect on January 1st," said Tiahrt. "Instead, the Democratic majority sees it more fitting to try social experiments with our military during a time of war. Once again, we see just how out of step Democrats are with the concerns of the American people."

they got his 'good side' in that pic.

Keep in mind that this tool is only useful AFTER a gun has been used in a crime and recovered. Dealers already keep records (by federal law).


i could ramble on, but to make a long shitstory short, the ATF isn't even allowed to buy computers bc of tiahrt. their budget is ~1,000,000 a year and they have ~400 agents. kinda pathetic!

http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/html/federal/tiahrt.shtml
The Tiahrt Amendments require the Justice Department to destroy the record of a buyer whose NICS background check was approved within 24 hours. This makes it harder to catch law-breaking gun dealers who falsify their records, and it makes it more difficult to identify and track straw purchasers who buy guns on behalf of criminals who wouldn't be able to pass a background check.
...
While dealers must notify ATF if they discover that guns from their inventories have been lost or stolen, the Tiahrt Amendments prevent ATF from requiring gun dealers to conduct annual physical inventory checks to detect losses and thefts. ATF reported that in 2007 it found 30,000 guns missing from dealer inventories based on its inspection of just 9.3% of gun dealers.

***

oh JEEZ, i left out the FOPA- don't wanna go THERE!

i meant the...PLCAA (Pile of Litigious Crap Advanced by Assholes?)
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/109/s397/text

An Act
To prohibit civil liability actions from being brought or continued against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers of firearms or ammunition for damages, injunctive or other relief resulting from the misuse of their products by others.


that unintelligible morass is what protects makers, dealers, black marketers, and even, i think, people who kill themselves from being sued, even thought they are raking in $$ anyway.

it is virtually unreadable, which is how they sneak all that crap in there. for instance, why would it start thusly-
(a) Findings- Congress finds the following:

(1) The Second Amendment to the United States Constitution provides that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.




GEE I WONDER WHOSE LAWYERS CAME UP WITH THAT LOAD OF CRAP?!?!?! (pardon my caps)

and 99% of people have no clue what it is, the other .09% can't decipher it.

i read that last bit as 'congress is the nra's lap dog', myself.

***

the CDC figures are important because they are supposed to protect public health-

'oh, 20,000 people died from drunk driving last year, maybe we should look into that'

not really any kind of orwellian intrusion...



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Response to farminator3000 (Reply #84)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 12:55 PM

86. answers

 

Tiart
Ok i get your point but we regularly impede le investigations. For example, wiretapping, cell phone records, medical records, even internet records. All of these things require subpoenas. Why would we treat guns differently?
I get that you dont like Tiart (the guy) or his voting record, but separate that from the law that has his name on it.

I tend to think of it a little differently:
When an illegal gun, or gun used in a crime is recovered, le has many tools at its disposal, including subpoena power, and prosecutorial discretion Let them use those as they would in any other crime

Fopa is what allows me free passage through ny and ma to the 11/12 of america where i can legally posess or carry a firearm. Not sure what issues you have with it but for purely selfish reasons im REALLY glad its there. Id love to hear your reasoning but i suspect we will agree to disagree on that one.

Plaa...
How can you protect someone who kills themself from being sued? Lol... had to call that one...i know it isnt what you meant.
When someone kills themself using perscription meds, we dont sue hospitals doctors or pharmacies. Remember what i do for a living. The insurance that i need to carry just to protect myself from an idiot dropping a hammer on his finger in my class is bad enough. Attaching liability to me because someone chooses to commit a crime, has an accident, or kills themself is unfair.

You wont get any argument from me on the cdc. I understand that some gun owners may be upset by gun ownership being considered a disease, but if i was afraid of name calling i wouldnt talk about guns on a democratic forum any more than id talk about gay marriage on a republican one.

As for NRApublicans, Harry Reid was nra endorsed until the teabaggers threw a shit fit, nominated sharrin angle and the tin foil hat brigade, and called tge nra en masse to pull tge endorsement.
Reid is a life member of tge Nra.

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Response to av8r1998 (Reply #86)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 02:52 PM

91. explanations!

For example, wiretapping, cell phone records, medical records, even internet records. All of these things require subpoenas.

(a lot of $$ being made!)

Police across the United States asked cellphone providers for the phone records, text message transcripts, location data and other information of at least 1.3 million customers during 2011, according to a Congressman investigating the practice.

Some of the data provided to Rep. Edward Markey (D-Mass.), the lawmaker who carried out the investigation, indicated that the number of police requests to mobile carriers have exploded over the past five years. Law enforcement requests to AT&T alone more than doubled from 125,425 in 2007 to 261,365 in 2011 — approximately 700 requests every day.

One type of law enforcement request, wherein police ask cell providers for a so-called "dump" of information about subscribers near a certain cell tower at a given point in time, may mean that thousands more people have been involved in police requests.

Markey called the results of his investigation — the most thorough inquiry into the practice thus far — "startling."

-skip-

Verizon Wireless, for instance, has a "team of trained employees and managers" that responded to more than 700 police requests each day in 2011. The company noted that it requires a warrant from police in all but the most extreme circumstances.

"Unless a customer consents to the release of the information or law enforcement certifies that there is an emergency involving danger of death or serious physical injury, we do not release location information to law enforcement without a signed warrant or order from a judge," reads Verizon's letter, which also stressed that the company prioritizes customer privacy.
http://mashable.com/2012/07/09/police-cellphones/

http://www.propublica.org/special/no-warrant-no-problem-how-the-government-can-still-get-your-digital-data

In a somewhat frightening twist, it takes more paperwork to get a thief's cell records than it takes to get the victim's. Here's how it works:
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/technology/2012/11/your-stolen-cellphones-records-are-going-straight-cops/59341/

Cops to Congress: We need logs of Americans' text messages ...
news.cnet.com/.../cops-to-congress-we-need-logs-of-...
Declan McCullagh
Dec 3, 2012 – Chuck DeWitt, a spokesman for the Major Cities Chiefs Police ... the warrant for the T-Mobile phone records to ask the service provider to ... The content of the LG cell phone matches the photographs taken on October 4, 2009 by Det. ..... Or is it that ya'll just don't want your sexting to get out in the open?

EXCLUSIVE: What local cops learn, and carriers earn, from ...
redtape.nbcnews.com/_.../11252640-exclusive-what-local-cop...
Apr 18, 2012 – Police in Oklahoma City spent $9,033 on cellphone records checks ... If they refuse, a law enforcement agency is then required get a ... The vast majority of these requests were simple location “pings,” that cost $30 each, but ...

***

the 'safe passage' i have no problem at all with- good example of a fair law- BUT the other 80% of the FOPA is:

1.mess up the a ATF, again.
2.some vortex of words about machine guns which appears to be a loophole.
3.safe passage, fine.
4.AGAIN mess up the ATF and the Brady act
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act

my amateur analysis of this is:
they put something good in the middle of a, pardon my french, croquette du merde, so people will only see the good part.
AND they define the 2nd, and use it to bone the ATF.

In the Report of the Subcommittee on the Constitution of the Committee on the Judiciary, United States Senate, 97th Congress, Second Session (February 1982), a bipartisan subcommittee (consisting of 3 Republicans and 2 Democrats) of the United States Senate investigated the Second Amendment and reported its findings. The report stated:
The conclusion is thus inescapable that the history, concept, and wording of the second amendment to the Constitution of the United States, as well as its interpretation by every major commentator and court in the first half century after its ratification, indicates that what is protected is an individual right of a private citizen to own and carry firearms in a peaceful manner.
It concluded that seventy-five percent of ATF prosecutions were "constitutionally improper", especially on Second Amendment issues.


National Background Check
The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993 created a national background check system to prevent firearms sales to prohibited persons. In order to comply with the prohibition on a Federal registry of non-NFA items, background check records are legally required to be destroyed after 24 hours.


How can you protect someone who kills themself from being sued? Lol... had to call that one...i know it isnt what you meant.

right, that was an example of how incomprehensible it is. i think it seems to actually say that! but who the F knows?

as far as the NRApublicans, even some of them are starting to distance themselves-
i thought Graham (sp) and Cruz looked a little psycho @ the senate hearing. esp. Cruz, like an angry GWB. yikes.

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Response to farminator3000 (Reply #91)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:09 PM

96. Work is spoiling good debate

 

I will reply to this later on...
Sorry farminator

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Response to farminator3000 (Reply #91)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:47 AM

103. FOPA

 

Seems like a mixed bag.
It prevents storage of SOME records by ATF, but also bans the sale of machine guns to civillians.

Still not sure what provisions are problematic, if you agree with Safe Passage.

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Response to av8r1998 (Reply #103)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:19 PM

105. i look at it this way-

NFA and GCA were both supported by the OLD nra, who were sane.

this whole thing gives me deja-vu- i'd almost forgotten how much i hated the NEW nra until recently-
but in the 80s, in my 'punk rock' youth, reagan shot, luby's massacre, etc., my contempt was born.

so basically, all the gun laws post harlan carter (whiney wayne's mentor)

ARE A TOTAL CROCK OF HORSESHIT. (pardon caps)

not sure if 'croquette du merde' translated right- i meant 'shit sandwich'

(i have to vent a little every now and then...)

so i'm saying, the FOPA, Brady, Protection of commerce act, and the old AWB are all...compromised?

by the nra, of course, and the important thing is not letting them mess up any new ones!

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/guntime1.html

for instance, i don't think the FOPA bans machine guns. i think that's what this wiki means-

Machine Gun Ban

As debate for FOPA was in its final stages in the House before moving on to the Senate, Rep. William J. Hughes (D-N.J.) proposed several amendments including House Amendment 777 to H.R. 4332 that would ban a civilian from ownership or transfer rights of any fully automatic weapon which was not registered as of May 19, 1986. The amendment also held that any such weapon manufactured and registered before the May 19 cutoff date could still be legally owned and transferred by civilians.

In the morning hours of April 10, 1986, the House held recorded votes on three amendments to FOPA in Record Vote No's 72, 73, and 74. Recorded Vote 72 was on H.AMDT. 776, an amendment to H.AMDT 770 involving the interstate sale of handguns; while Recorded Vote 74 was on H.AMDT 770, involving primarily the easing of interstate sales and the safe passage provision. Recorded Vote 74 was the controversial Hughes Amendment that called for the banning of machine guns. Rep. Charles Rangel (D-N.Y.), at the time presiding as Chairman over the proceedings, claimed that the "amendment in the nature of a substitute, as amended, was agreed to." However, after the voice vote on the Hughes Amendment, Rangel ignored a plea to take a recorded vote and moved on to Recorded Vote 74 where the Hughes Amendment failed. The bill, H.R. 4332, as a whole passed in Record Vote No: 75 on a motion to recommit. Despite the controversial amendment, the Senate, in S.B. 49, adopted H.R. 4332 as an amendment to the final bill. The bill was subsequently passed and signed on May 19, 1986 by President Ronald Reagan to become Public Law 99-308, the Firearms Owners' Protection Act.

and there's this-
http://www.usacarry.com/forums/firearm-politics-2nd-amendment-issues/15543-1986-fopa-hughes-amendment-vote-footage-located.html

personally, i'm baffled!

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Response to farminator3000 (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:58 PM

22. Not a bad idea

A lot of people who can't afford or don't have room for a big gun safe for their long guns just get a small safe and keep the bolts, slides and cylinders in there. Locking up the ammunition (don't call them "bullets"...grrr) is a delaying tactic, since they have more at the store.

Personally, I do have room for a big safe and keep all my guns in it. Only I know the combination. The ammo is not locked up but then it doesn't hurt much when someone throws a cartridge at you.

P.S. If your wife really decided to do you in, she could just get a carving knife from the kitchen and get you while you're sleeping. Maybe you should lock up the handles for the knives (j/k)

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Response to kudzu22 (Reply #22)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 03:57 PM

35. thanks

can you really call less than one box (in my case) 'ammo'?

Locking up the ammunition (don't call them "bullets"...grrr) is a delaying tactic, since they have more at the store.

my wife would buy the wrong caliber, for instance! (and probably call them 'shots') like can i buy a box of shots...(jk, i think)

she's pretty mean with a toaster- i take my baths when she's out shopping! (also jk)


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Response to farminator3000 (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 01:31 PM

23. Isn't that a given?

My old man taught me that the safest gun is one that can't fire. Likewise, I was taught that the only time my firearms should be -able- to fire is when I intend to use them. Hence, no firearm I own has a bolt or action in them until I bring them to a range.

Responsible gun owners already do this, or something similar. The ones you have to worry about (AKA, leaving guns around willy nilly) are probably the types who wouldn't listen to such common sense anyways. Decent, if painfully obvious, observation.

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Response to Decoy of Fenris (Reply #23)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 04:00 PM

36. one would hope, but...reading the news, i'd have to say no.

i really doubt everybody learned as well as that.

and people forget things-

or walk into walmart and buy one, no safety class at all.

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Response to Decoy of Fenris (Reply #23)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 11:49 AM

66. A holstered gun is a safe gun

 

You have no idea how many people I see carrying in inadequate holsters/belts.
There is a great youtube of a guy who shoots himself trying to draw from a Serpa holster. (They have been banned by most of the larger training schoolS like FrontSight and Sig Academy)

If you carry, don't go cheap on the holster. It MUST protect the trigger and have adequate retension.

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Response to farminator3000 (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 01:39 PM

24. Already Implemented..

 

In this household, along with me and my wife's hand guns having built-in, keyed trigger and slide locks.

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Response to raidert05 (Reply #24)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 04:01 PM

37. what's a slide lock?

like a plug where the casing is ejected?

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Response to farminator3000 (Reply #37)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:25 PM

46. No it..

 

It locks down the slide assembly, so you can have a magazine inserted but when the gun is locked down you can't rack it back to load a round in the chamber.

when you lock them down you make the gun inoperable, they both also have firing pin blocks that will disengage the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled in case of accidental drops.

It also has a round loaded indicator that sticks out near the injection port marked in red for quick reference to see if a round is chambered or not, Taurus and Bersa make quality fire arms at a decent price, The wife has a Bersa .380 Thunderbolt and I have a Taurus PT145 .45

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Response to raidert05 (Reply #46)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 10:39 AM

64. Not adequate, and a poor defensive choice

 

It renders the gun inop. If it is loaded with a round in the chamber it is ready for use.
I encourage you to get a bedside safe.

It also does not adequately secure the firearm.

I recomend these, sans Biometric.
Easy for you to get into, secures the firearm, and can be tethered/bolted.

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Response to farminator3000 (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 02:12 PM

25. Not a bad idea (2)

I store guns with the action open, when feasible; it is not much harder to remove the bolt.

I can see hard core types protesting they are needed for home defense, but really how many guns do you need to have ready? I find two, secured but accessible with extra ammo, will cover any reasonable scenario and several unreasonable ones I can think of. If you need more, zombies move rather slow and a bolt can quickly be replaced in most guns.

>edit: added numeric to avoid copyright infringement with kudzu22

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #25)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 02:33 PM

29. Wouldn't you need at least one readily available?

 

In a safe next to the bed perhaps?

I'm not a gun owner so I have no idea how difficult it is to reassemble all this, but it seems self defeating to have a gun but have no way to get it together in the few seconds before some creep gets to you.

If all guns are required to be in this state, then self defense as a reason to own a gun seems to be BS.

And that is the problem. Safety seems to run both ways, safer for kids probably means safer for thieves. Or are we saying break ins while you are home are also a load of BS?

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Response to dkf (Reply #29)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 04:17 PM

40. That is the one, or two I referred to

I have a push button lock box in my room for a gun which is out of usual locked storage that needs to be secured for a bit and to keep a pistol at night. It can be opened in two seconds in the dark, if you know the combination.

It is enough to keep little finger from touching something they should not. It will not stop a determined effort so is not adequate for long term storage

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Response to dkf (Reply #29)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 04:29 PM

42. if you want one, sure

16% of owners leave them unlocked and loaded, so i guess there are a lot who make up their own 'storage requirements'

http://www.masslive.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/01/massachusetts_supreme_judicial_1.html

John McGowan of Springfield, who had a license to carry a firearm, was charged in November 2008 by Springfield police with violating the state's gun storage law. The charge came after a female roommate went into his second-floor bedroom, took his loaded handgun from an unlocked drawer in a side table, left the home, threw the weapon into a neighbor's bushes and then locked him out when he tried to retrieve the gun.

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Response to farminator3000 (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 02:18 PM

26. So if you hear someone breaking into your house are any of your guns of any help?

 

If all these guns aren't ready for a home break in where does self defense come in as a reason to own a gun?

Are they really only for hobbies then?

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Response to dkf (Reply #26)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 02:24 PM

27. You beat me do it

And I agree. What's the point?

You got bullets hidden or locked away somewhere. The bolt somewhere else and the gun in some other place.

An intruder invades your home and you'll be stumbling around gathering everything.

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Response to rightsideout (Reply #27)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 02:35 PM

30. Seriously can we quit with the contrary for contrary's sake,

This is a valid and common sense idea, you don't have to do it with every weapon but those that are going to be sitting awhile.. seriously what can it hurt.
I use a safe (3 actually), but often store my weapons sans bolt carrier group and usually broken down to uppers and lower receivers. I keep my loaded mags and ammo in another safe from my rifles and pistols. I do have one at condition one, but it is within reach while at home. and locked when I leave.

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Response to SQUEE (Reply #30)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 11:56 AM

67. Careful about that

 

Don't know what state you're in, but if you have an AWB, and a mix of pre and post-ban unassembled upper's and receivers you MAY be breaking the law.

I'm honestly not sure since I don't own any pre-ban firearms, but it's worth a look.

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Response to av8r1998 (Reply #67)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 12:07 PM

68. I have stamps for NFA, and a 2 A and NFA friendly state

but I do appreciate your concern (no sarcasm), hard to hit me with intent when I have multiple registered SBRs..

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Response to SQUEE (Reply #68)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 12:19 PM

69. damn

 

I gotta move...

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Response to rightsideout (Reply #27)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 04:14 PM

39. read it again?

If you have a collection, maybe lock up the bolts of non-defense guns in their own safe.

so...

if there are 100 million people with 3000 different types of guns, that makes 300 zigadillion possible situations.

something is bound to go wrong.

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Response to dkf (Reply #26)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 04:11 PM

38. i covered that, i thought.

If you have a collection, maybe lock up the bolts of non-defense guns in their own safe.

i even said 'guns', where usually one would be plenty...

there are safes that take 30 seconds to open.

i'm just saying you don't really have to sleep by a loaded gun if you can pop in a mag in less than 5 seconds.

some people hide their guns in the toilet tank, whatever floats your gat, so to speak.

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Response to farminator3000 (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 04:49 PM

44. Sunday Shooting Review - thank you Robb

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022303792

case in point ^^^ results of bad gun safety procedures

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Response to farminator3000 (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 03:00 AM

47. You do not let your wife have access to the key? nt

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Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #47)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 10:06 AM

50. hell no!

A. she has never shot a gun

B. you'd be amazed how she gets about recycling

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Response to farminator3000 (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:42 AM

48. hide the BBs??????

 

The paranoid delusions and irrational fear of the antigunners has descended to a new level.

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Response to guardian (Reply #48)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 10:04 AM

49. yes, hide the fucking BBs

Authorities: Child STARFlighted after being shot with BB gun | www ...
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Jan 20, 2013 – A 6-year-old has been transported to Dell Children's Medical Center of Central Texas via STARFlight after being shot in the abdomen with a BB ...]

BB lodged in boy's head after shooting :: WRAL.com
www.wral.com/news/local/story/7470606/
1 day ago – Leon Hogan Jr. says his son was playing with some other children when they got into an argument and another boy shot his son with a BB gun.

or are you cool with kids getting shot? try reading the news

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Response to farminator3000 (Reply #49)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 10:10 AM

52. There are something like 12K shootings with airguns each year in the FBI stats.

When I first glanced your post I thought it was one incident and that that was one helluva powerful airgun to shoot a kid in the abdomen and have the bb lodge in boys head!!

Coffee please! Must have MORE coffee!

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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #52)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 11:34 AM

56. yes and yes!

i just looked at the front pg of the NY times and thought Cuomo was curbing zombies!

it was the pic...and the capital Z...

http://www.nytimes.com/

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Response to farminator3000 (Reply #49)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 10:18 AM

53. So now you want to ban BB guns too?

 

By the time people like you are done saving everyone from anything and everything potentially harmful we will all be locked in a stasis chamber or some pod like on the matrix.

It's people like you that have been saving the planet from lawn jarts and easy bake ovens.

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Response to guardian (Reply #53)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 11:32 AM

55. no, and shut up

i said hide the BBs

you appear to think kids getting shot with BBs is funny. but it only is in the movies.

you are part of the problem.

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Response to guardian (Reply #48)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 10:07 AM

51. that's the extent of your comment?

why?

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Response to farminator3000 (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 11:12 AM

54. Excellent Idea - But

 

I'm going to improve upon the home defense part.
I am an instructor and instruct my students to always chamber a round.
A "nightstand" gun should be secured in a bolted down or tethered safe, with a finger pad locking mechanism.
It should have both ac power and a battery backup.
The safe should contain, at the least, a loaded pistol and 2 spare mags. (Magazine issues are the most common causes of a pistol stoppage, with the shooter being the second most common)

I also advise avoiding biometric safes .. lots of false negatives.

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Response to av8r1998 (Reply #54)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 11:52 AM

57. thanks! some ???s for ya

what's the diff. between fingerpad locking mech. and biometric?

the 1st is like a phone pad and you dial a combination pattern, and the 2nd reads your fingerprint?

is the split second you save by chambering one worth the risk that it goes off when you grab for it?

is keeping the safety on a LAW or just suggestion?

wouldn't keeping the safety off, and chambering one when you grab the gun be kinda the same as 1 in the chamber?

i'd think the sound of a round being chambered would be more intimidating than saying 'stop, i have a gun'?

or am i thinking too 'hollywood' on the sound thing?

i'm planning on using a baseball bat if the shit ever hits the fan, myself- those guns that shoot around corners with video screens aren't in wal mart....yet! as in, gun or face comes around corner, i see them first, WHAP. its harder to miss with a bat!

you are very right about the nightstand/safe thing- you might wnt to tell your students about this!
http://www.masslive.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/01/massachusetts_supreme_judicial_1.html

The charge came after a female roommate went into his second-floor bedroom, took his loaded handgun from an unlocked drawer in a side table, left the home, threw the weapon into a neighbor's bushes and then locked him out when he tried to retrieve the gun.


i have to post the laughing guy everytime with that link, i'd wish i'd been a fly on the wall there!



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Response to farminator3000 (Reply #57)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 06:48 AM

60. Answers -

 

A biometric reader reads your fingerprints.
"Fingerpads" are non-alphanumeric buttons that line up with the fingers on your hand.

"is the split second you save by chambering one worth the risk that it goes off when you grab for it?"

Really, I chamber a round on my carry gun. With a proper drawstroke and training it will not "Just Go Off" as long as you keep your finger off the trigger. Same with a nightstand gun. The key is practice, practice practice getting a firing grip on the gun. As far as the "Split Second", in the time I can draw from an unconcealed holster and place 2 rounds center mass, an adult male can run approx. 21 feet. Since I don't know of many 21 foot long bedrooms, and pulling out of a safe is much slower than drowing, Id say - yeah ... the split second is worth the risk. It also takes far more then a split second. Again, coming out of a holster as soon as you clear leather your muzzle goes on target. Can't do that if you have to rack a slide and re sight.

"is keeping the safety on a LAW or just suggestion?"
It is not a law, and depends on the gun. Revolvers don't have safeties. They have a long heavy trigger.
Same with a TDA gun like a Sig. The safety is that the trigger is so heavy, there is NO WAY that gun can go bang without someone really really meaning to.
My Glocks have 3 safeties, but they are passive. Pulling the trigger deactivates them.
They also have 3.5 lb triggers and I am perfectly comfortable carrying them.
(LOL I am waiting for someone to ask me why I need 3 Glocks, so I'll answer:
1 is a home defense gun, competition gun and range gun. It's the largest which gives it more stability, better sight radius, and least felt recoil, but it's too big to carry. The medium sized one is a great every day carry gun, but a little harder to shoot. The smallest one is for summertime for concealability, but MUCH more difficult to use.)
When people think of a safety they usually think of a 1911. That type of firearm should be carried or in the case of HD stored cocked and locked. Meaning hammer cocked/safety on.

"wouldn't keeping the safety off, and chambering one when you grab the gun be kinda the same as 1 in the chamber?"
No

"i'd think the sound of a round being chambered would be more intimidating than saying 'stop, i have a gun'?

or am i thinking too 'hollywood' on the sound thing? "

Actually, it's worse.
If they are already in your bedroom, they already know you have a gun
If they are NOT already in the bedroom, now they know 3 things they didn't before
1) Your location
2) That you are awake and
3) You have a gun.
They may have guns as well, when their intent was only to burglarize your home and leave. Introducing the gun escalates the situation.
Guns NEVER de-escalate a situation


"i'm planning on using a baseball bat if the shit ever hits the fan, myself- those guns that shoot around corners with video screens aren't in wal mart....yet! as in, gun or face comes around corner, i see them first, WHAP. its harder to miss with a bat!"
A baseball bat is a perfectly effective hand to hand tool

Thanks for the link ...
I can't imagine what he did.... other than be stupid about where to store the gun.
We have a similar law here, but it only is a crime if someone unauthorized gets the gun.
In any case - I like to use Pulp Fiction as an example of what happens when you unsafely store a firearm.


Hope this helps.

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Response to av8r1998 (Reply #60)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 04:28 PM

70. ^^^ good answers!

With a proper drawstroke and training it will not "Just Go Off" as long as you keep your finger off the trigger.

which is why ALL homeowners with guns should have training.

it should be free if possible/necessary.

keeping one in the chamber would make me excessively nervous (if i used my gun at all), but if you know what you are doing, sure.

well golly, i thought ALL guns had safeties!
so safes should be required in MANY more situations. but you can't FORCE someone to buy one or even use it correctly if they are required to have one.
i'm just gonna throw in that i'd feel safer with a dog and good locks than locked and loaded. IF there was any sort of crime where i live.

so the possible combinations of type of gun, where you live, pets, and locks are probably infinite.


Guns NEVER de-escalate a situation


calling Mr. Pierre? hello? nobody in there?

now THERE'S something i can agree with 100%!

thanks!

more news:
CHICAGO (CBS) – The Cook County Board has approved imposing fines of up to $2,000 on gun owners who fail to inform police if a gun is stolen, lost, or transferred to someone else.

The vote came after the board paid tribute to Hadiya Pendleton, the King College Prep High School student gunned down in a local park last week.
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2013/02/05/cook-county-commissioners-approve-new-gun-control-measure/

i can't help but think that 500,000+ stolen guns a year have A BIT to do with this: (or vice-versa?)

Arrested 18 times since 2005, Lake Worth felon busted on gun charges again

The Lake Worth felon is facing federal firearms-related charges for the second time in less than a year after he was chased by police – again.
The 23-year-old has been arrested at least 18 times by local and federal authorities since 2005, according to Florida Department of Law Enforcement and federal court records.
This time, Reynolds was spotted carrying a firearm near a neighborhood strip plaza at 12th Avenue South and E Street in Lake Worth on Jan. 30, according to a probable cause affidavit filed by an agent with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
After parking a Mitsubishi in front of a barber shop, a man recognized as Reynolds by a tipster was spotted emerging from the car with a gun in his waistband. At one point, he pulled a bandana from the car.

But the people inside the barber shop were watching him, so the man got back in his car and left.
http://cbs12.com/news/top-stories/stories/arrested-18-times-since-2005-lake-worth-felon-busted-gun-charges-again-4997.shtml?wap=0


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Response to farminator3000 (Reply #70)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 09:22 PM

73. More answers

 

"which is why ALL homeowners with guns should have training."
Only Homeowners? Anyone with a gun should be trained.
"it should be free if possible/necessary"
Free? No.
Part of the fees we pay to get permitted/renewed? Absolutely
There aren't enough permit holders to justify society paying for it, but here in CT it's about 200 bucks just in application fees.
Yeah, I think there's room in the budget for a box of ammo and some range time with an instructor out of that.

"CHICAGO (CBS) – The Cook County Board has approved imposing fines of up to $2,000 on gun owners who fail to inform police if a gun is stolen, lost, or transferred to someone else.
"

If your $500 tv set was stolen wouldn't you call the cops?
We don't need to legislate that.
You can make the fine 10K and it won't matter. I guarantee, guns that are "stolen" and not reported are straw sales.
Which makes criminal charges irrelevant.

As for the rest of the story, it is already illegal for felons to have guns...
but they're felons. So by definition, they break laws.

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Response to av8r1998 (Reply #73)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 10:41 AM

82. yes

Only Homeowners? Anyone with a gun should be trained.

yep. just semantics, there, of course 99.9% of people with gats own or rent. i should have said "home dwellers"?

Free? No.

i didn't mean you should teach people for charity- more like if a woman with 4 kids to feed has a restraining order on her ex, she shouldn't have to pay for training, OR have a gun without it...gats are enuf $$ as it is...and the $$ goes to the WRONG people...

as in, the gov. can both restrict people from getting AND help to get a gun, if they really need one.

I guarantee, guns that are "stolen" and not reported are straw sales.
Which makes criminal charges irrelevant.


i see what you're saying, but i've heard estimates of 500,000 stolen guns a year- sure, a majority are straw sales, but $2 million in guns stolen from 1 guy? or sold by marines? yikes!

U.S. Marines Sold Nearly $2 Million in Stolen Guns, Combat Equipment, To Gangs And Foreign Countries
http://www.ibtimes.com/us-marines-sold-nearly-2-million-stolen-guns-combat-equipment-gangs-and-foreign-countries-698575

60 busted ^^^

***

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/south_bay&id=7944582
$2M gun collection stolen during home invasion

75 guns ^^^

***

i think the problem may be-
i really doubt someone buying a gun in a parking lot with no ID is going to even look at the serial number. with no BG check or paperwork relating to the actual owner, it becomes a...dead end?

why would someone avoiding a BG check report a gun they maybe shouldn't have had to the cops-

i doubt 'i don't know' would be a good answer to a cop saying 'what's the serial # of your stolen gun', ya know?

'where was it stolen from?'

the dashbox of my car.

'oh, great, maybe its in your kids locker at school, good work..'

um...

people aren't responsible with their cars quite often, so i think unlicensed gats are probably a lot worse.

you might think this is out there, but if there's gps in millions of smartphones, why not guns?

technology can do MORE than make guns more 'efficient' at what they do...





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Response to farminator3000 (Reply #82)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 11:16 AM

83. More Answers

 

i didn't mean you should teach people for charity- more like if a woman with 4 kids to feed has a restraining order on her ex, she shouldn't have to pay for training, OR have a gun without it...gats are enuf $$ as it is...and the $$ goes to the WRONG people...


Oh no I get that. I think monies collected for fees should be directed at training for those that can't afford it. I didn't mean you expected me to train someone for nothing, though I do teach for my cost when circumstances warrant it.
Just doing my good deed.

i see what you're saying, but i've heard estimates of 500,000 stolen guns a year- sure, a majority are straw sales, but $2 million in guns stolen from 1 guy? or sold by marines? yikes!

Stolen and found?
Stolen and returned?
Stolen and used in a crime?
Stolen and used to shoot someone?
More info is needed and I would want more details on the stats

For example, I was robbed at gunpoint 20 + years ago.
They were repeat armed burglars
They used a gun and never shot anyone.

i think the problem may be-
i really doubt someone buying a gun in a parking lot with no ID is going to even look at the serial number. with no BG check or paperwork relating to the actual owner, it becomes a...dead end?

why would someone avoiding a BG check report a gun they maybe shouldn't have had to the cops-

i doubt 'i don't know' would be a good answer to a cop saying 'what's the serial # of your stolen gun', ya know?

'where was it stolen from?'

the dashbox of my car.

'oh, great, maybe its in your kids locker at school, good work..'

um...

In CT that's unlawful storage.
As far as tracking down a straw purchase, there are a lot of ways of investigating that would not require registration.
That's what detectives do.
"Who did you sell the gun to?
How did you meet him?
Get a description"
Etc. Good old fasioned police work.
After that, if there is RAS of a Straw Sale, warrant for phone records, internet, etc.


you might think this is out there, but if there's gps in millions of smartphones, why not guns?

technology can do MORE than make guns more 'efficient' at what they do...


Smartphones are powered devices with complicated software and batteries.
Guns are "Complex Machines", meaning they perform more than 1 action, but they are unpowered, and RFID is too short range to be effective, so GPS wouldn't work.

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Response to av8r1998 (Reply #83)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 01:05 PM

87. answers to your answers!

Just doing my good deed.

thanks!

EXAMPLES OF STATE AND LOCAL RESPONSES

Seven states (Connecticut, Massachusetts, Michigan, New Jersey, New York, Ohio and Rhode Island) and the District of Columbia currently require the reporting of lost and stolen guns to law enforcement. A growing number of other states and local governments are working to pass similar laws.
http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/html/local/lost-stolen.shtml

***

the 500,000 number is old. so prob pretty low.
http://www.jhsph.edu/research/centers-and-institutes/johns-hopkins-center-for-gun-policy-and-research/publications/guns_theft_fs.pdf

***

At least one handgun was stolen in 63 percent of household burglaries. (!!!-whoa, there's a statistic!)

From 2005 through 2010, household property crimes involving only stolen firearms resulted in a total loss of about $27 million per year. The average financial loss when only one gun was stolen was between $400 and $500 per incident.

Other findings showed—
About three out of four household property crimes involving stolen firearms occurred in households headed by white non-Hispanic persons.
From 2005 through 2010, the majority of household burglaries (56 percent) or other property crimes (59 percent) involving stolen firearms occurred in the South.
Households in rural areas experienced a disproportionate percentage of burglaries involving stolen firearms (34 percent), compared to the overall percentage of U.S. households located in rural areas (17 percent).
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/press/fshbopc0510pr.cfm

(i'm not quite sure if those last few are an argument pro or con using ar-15s for home defense. probably con!)

you seem to think a pistol is sufficient?

***

Good old fasioned police work.
After that, if there is RAS of a Straw Sale, warrant for phone records, internet, etc.


that's kind of what i mean- old fashioned means the ATF is digging thru cardboard boxes for stuff.
they have to borrow the FBI's computers...

***

i'm not the only one who has the idea, fortunately:

Cochran has introduced a resolution asking the Committee on Public Safety to hold hearings to receive testimony on the matter. A Massachusetts state senator from Boston has been pushing a similar measure in that state.
Cochran acknowledged it might be expensive to install GPS chips on current and future firearms, but not as expensive as the cost of gun violence to society.

“Let’s measure what it costs in hospital costs, lost wages, deaths,” he said.

As for the privacy of gun owners who could be tracked with the GPS chips in their guns, Cochran said, “safety is … a much more important issue than is privacy.”

“It is extremely important that we look past this privacy issue, at this point, and understand how important it is for us to address the issue of safety,” he added.
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2013/01/17/alderman-suggests-requiring-gps-devices-on-all-guns/

does that complete an in thread circle somehow?




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Response to farminator3000 (Reply #87)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 02:19 PM

88. OK.... Answers to Answers^2

 

I wouldn't care if you required a physical inventory or cumpulsory reporting of stolen firearms, but I question the effectiveness of such a law. Legal gun owners will report them anyway. Straw sellers and illegal gun owners won't.


At least one handgun was stolen in 63 percent of household burglaries. (!!!-whoa, there's a statistic!)

roughly 1/2 of American Households own guns, so there is a statistical deviation.
I attribute the deviation to the fact that the burglars KNEW there was a gun in the home.
But gun control advocates (like MAIG) want to have the names of permit holders be public info...
So they want to create a shopping list for gun thieves?
What I wonder about that statistic is what are the privacy laws in the state as it pertains to permit holder info.
Did a higher than normal % of those gun thefts occur in states/jurisdictions where permit holders names and addresses were public record?
I suspect MAIG wouldn't want THAT to come out.

i'm not the only one who has the idea, fortunately:

Cochran has introduced a resolution asking the Committee on Public Safety to hold hearings to receive testimony on the matter. A Massachusetts state senator from Boston has been pushing a similar measure in that state.
Cochran acknowledged it might be expensive to install GPS chips on current and future firearms, but not as expensive as the cost of gun violence to society.

“Let’s measure what it costs in hospital costs, lost wages, deaths,” he said.


Where is the power source? Where is the GPS Tranceiver? When the battery dies, will ATF attempt to locate the owner and compell him to get a new battery?

As far as costs ... will the state bear this cost? Or will the gun owner? I mean after all, these costs Cochran cites are costs to society ... not individuals. Will the government bear that cost or will the gun owner?

“It is extremely important that we look past this privacy issue, at this point, and understand how important it is for us to address the issue of safety,” he added

Damn ... is THAT a slippery slope...
A large portion of gun violence is due to the drug trade.
Why not just civilly commit suspected drug dealers. After all, if there are no drug dealers there won't be any drug related crime. Or maybe, we should have pharmacists and doctors report the names of anyone buying perscription meds to the DEA. THEN we can microstamp the tablets, place a gps in the bottle, and have universal background checks on anyone perscribed perscription drugs. For good measure, we should require a physical inventory every month of someone's perscription meds, and cumpulsory reporting of stolen tablets. Then, when a drug bust is made, we can trace those pills back to the person who bought them, prosecute them for not reporting their stolen pain killers. The cost to society of illicit perscription drugs is a superset of the cost to society of gun violence. While we're at it, lets make sure that all perscription drug recipients have liability insurance, and a patchwork of different state laws that prevent them from travelling with their medication. Wouldn't want someone with an unregistered aspirin in NYC, right? And publish their names in a directory. I mean after all, I need to know if my neighbor has Vicodin in the house. My kid might get into the bottle and OD.

Does the above sound silly and argumentative? Yes.
But these are all suggestions I've heard about guns in the name of safety.

I think if you take any proposed gun law, and apply it to perscription meds, you will see for yourself whether it makes sense.

After all - perscription drugs kill far more people every year than firearms do.


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Response to av8r1998 (Reply #88)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:28 PM

92. counterpoints?

I wouldn't care if you required a physical inventory or cumpulsory reporting of stolen firearms, but I question the effectiveness of such a law. Legal gun owners will report them anyway. Straw sellers and illegal gun owners won't.

Nearly 60% of the guns used in crime are traced back to a small number—just 1.2%—of crooked gun dealers.
http://gunvictimsaction.org/fact-sheet/fact-sheet-illegal-gun-trafficking-arms-criminals-and-youth/

***

Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales.
The next biggest source of illegal gun transactions where criminals get guns are sales made by legally licensed but corrupt at-home and commercial gun dealers.
Another large source of guns used in crimes are unlicensed street dealers who either get their guns through illegal transactions with licensed dealers, straw purchases, or from gun thefts. These illegal dealers turn around and sell these illegally on the street. An additional way criminals gain access to guns is family and friends, either through sales, theft or as gifts.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html

***

Where is the power source? Where is the GPS Tranceiver? When the battery dies, will ATF attempt to locate the owner and compell him to get a new battery?

As far as costs ... will the state bear this cost? Or will the gun owner? I mean after all, these costs Cochran cites are costs to society ... not individuals. Will the government bear that cost or will the gun owner?


i guess they are working on it?

The problem with fingerprint, palm print and other biometric approaches to preventing guns from being fired by those not authorized to do so is that it takes time to analyze biometric data. So while the weapon is attempting to figure out whether it is Bond or someone else holding the trigger, he'd likely be shot dead, which would be a real setback to the 23-movie franchise-not to mention Q's reputation.
Radio frequency identification, however, holds promise for smart guns. In the January-February 2012 issue of RFID Journal magazine, we published an article about a company called TriggerSmart, based in Limerick, Ireland,
http://www.triggersmart.com/Pages/TriggerSmart.aspx

Damn ... is THAT a slippery slope...


i hear your side, but honestly i'd be less worried about the gov. knowing where my gun was than google or whomever tracking me 24 hours a day on my phone WITHOUT consent.

the gov. doesn't use your SS# against you, if that helps?

and yep, legal drugs kill countless people, too.

pharmaceutical companies spent $900 million on lobbying between 1998 and 2005, more than any other industry.(wiki)

no comment there!

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Response to farminator3000 (Reply #92)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 04:49 PM

94. Counterpoints^2

 

Nearly 60% of the guns used in crime are traced back to a small number—just 1.2%—of crooked gun dealers.
http://gunvictimsaction.org/fact-sheet/fact-sheet-illegal-gun-trafficking-arms-criminals-and-youth/

Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales.
The next biggest source of illegal gun transactions where criminals get guns are sales made by legally licensed but corrupt at-home and commercial gun dealers.
Another large source of guns used in crimes are unlicensed street dealers who either get their guns through illegal transactions with licensed dealers, straw purchases, or from gun thefts. These illegal dealers turn around and sell these illegally on the street. An additional way criminals gain access to guns is family and friends, either through sales, theft or as gifts.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html



My point still stands. They will not report the "missing" guns.

i guess they are working on it?

The problem with fingerprint, palm print and other biometric approaches to preventing guns from being fired by those not authorized to do so is that it takes time to analyze biometric data. So while the weapon is attempting to figure out whether it is Bond or someone else holding the trigger, he'd likely be shot dead, which would be a real setback to the 23-movie franchise-not to mention Q's reputation.
Radio frequency identification, however, holds promise for smart guns. In the January-February 2012 issue of RFID Journal magazine, we published an article about a company called TriggerSmart, based in Limerick, Ireland,
http://www.triggersmart.com/Pages/TriggerSmart.aspx


Guns are by design a simple, non-powered, mechanical device.
Adding electronics would be difficult and costly, not to mention impede operation, and VERY easy to defeat.


hear your side, but honestly i'd be less worried about the gov. knowing where my gun was than google or whomever tracking me 24 hours a day on my phone WITHOUT consent.


My gun goes everywhere my phone goes. It is a distinction without a difference.

the gov. doesn't use your SS# against you, if that helps?


Really? Ever hear of a tax lien?

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Response to av8r1998 (Reply #94)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:11 PM

97. i think we're agreeing a bit? not sure.

My point still stands. They will not report the "missing" guns.

not sure what you men there- if 'dealers', they should be put in jail for 'losing' (i mean selling and claiming stolen) guns
if you mean criminals, of course they won't report guns, the idea is to keep the 'missing' one away from them.

Guns are by design a simple, non-powered, mechanical device.
Adding electronics would be difficult and costly, not to mention impede operation, and VERY easy to defeat.


did you watch the triggersmart videos? sounds pretty advanced to me. quite the irish accent!

My gun goes everywhere my phone goes. It is a distinction without a difference.


right. so not an intrusion on privacy?

and the tax lien, well, i suppose they'd use your driver's license if you dropped it while robbing a bank.

like i said, you have to commit a crime b4 they violate your privacy.


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Response to farminator3000 (Reply #97)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:39 AM

102. We are getting close

 

I have 3 issues with electronic monitoring (whether GPS or RFID)
1) As I said, I am not in favor of electronic modification to a mechanical, non electronic device. I would be closer to ok with monitoring than I would be with a safety. Safeties FAIL!!!

2) With cellphone monitoring there is a significant check and balance. The records are kept by a private company whom I PAY for a service. Verizon Wireless would not have many customers if they did not protect their customers privacy. Second, they are not PERMITTED to release records without a court order. This requires an action of 2 branches of government. I would be ok with some form of monitoring, or even with records of NICS checks provided they are ONLY accessible under court order. What would you think of permitting private industry conducting background checks and storing the sales records? Their customer would be the purchaser. The service provider would conduct the background check through NICS. The government would still be required to destroy the records, but the service provider wouldn't. I am not yet sure how to pay for it, but there would at least be a firewall between the government and the gun owner.

3) Unlike using a cell phone, owning a firearm is a right. Because it is a right, it tends to fall under tighter legal scrutiny and protection.

"like i said, you have to commit a crime b4 they violate your privacy."

What about the Patriot Act?
That is a pretty invasive piece of legislation.

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Response to av8r1998 (Reply #102)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:42 AM

104. this goes much smoother when we're both, if not on the same page, at least in the same book!

I would be closer to ok with monitoring than I would be with a safety. Safeties FAIL!!!

i really think its just a matter of $$$, AGAIN.

the irish guy's thing seems pretty cool- did you hear the little noise the gun makes when you grab it?

looks quicker than a safety...

and cops could have the rifd part embedded in their hands, so NO cops shot when their guns are grabbed in a fight...

i hear you about the 'fail rate' - i think LE would have to approve of them 1st, so they'd be 'workable'

***

Verizon Wireless would not have many customers if they did not protect their customers privacy. Second, they are not PERMITTED to release records without a court order.

i will agree there may be a 'slippery slope' here!
the cell companies aren't the best firewall- a privacy clause in any gun tracking regs would be necessary, sure.
the Patriot Act is a horrendous prob, also for sure!


In a somewhat frightening twist, it takes more paperwork to get a thief's cell records than it takes to get the victim's. Here's how it works:
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/technology/2012/11/your-stolen-cellphones-records-are-going-straight-cops/59341/

All four telecom firms also offer so-called “tower dumps” that allow police to see the numbers of every user accessing a certain cell tower over a certain time at an hourly rate. AT&T charges $75 per tower per hour, with a minimum of two hours. Verizon charges between $30 and $60 per hour for each cell tower. T-Mobile demands $150 per cell tower per hour, and Sprint charges $50 per tower, seemingly without an hourly rate.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2012/04/03/these-are-the-prices-att-verizon-and-sprint-charge-for-cellphone-wiretaps/

http://www.propublica.org/special/no-warrant-no-problem-how-the-government-can-still-get-your-digital-data



***

Unlike using a cell phone, owning a firearm is a right. Because it is a right, it tends to fall under tighter legal scrutiny and protection.

i agree, but not...

yes tighter scrutiny, but there has to be a better word than right OR privilege- pick one?

the italic ones all work for a gun...

privilege  
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: right, due
Synonyms: advantage, allowance, appanage, appurtenance, authority, authorization, benefit, birthright, boon, chance, charter, claim, concession, entitlement, event, exemption, favor, franchise, freedom, grant, immunity, liberty, license, opportunity, perquisite, prerogative, right, sanction

found this, too- (didn't read the whole thing) but, a good 100+ year old quote:

It is one of the misfortunes of the law that ideas become encysted in phrases and thereafter for a long time cease to provoke further analysis.
The Demise of the Right-Privilege Distinction in Constitutional Law

By: William W. Van Alstyne

Harvard Law Review, Vol. 81:1439
http://constitution.org/cmt/right-privilege.htm

i love that 'encysted'! very descriptive...







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Response to farminator3000 (Reply #104)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 03:13 PM

112. Dictionary definitions are great but need context

 

But in context:
The state "Allows" or "Affords" us the privelege of driving.
They OWN the roads, and can make the rules.
One of the rules is "Implied Consent" to take a field sobriety test.
If you refuse, you have violated your agreement, and will lose your license and be subjected to CIVIL penalties, HOWEVER - unless and until the state can PROVE that you were driving while intoxicated as defined in the criminal statute, you cannot be criminally charged. In other words, license or no license, you have the right to a trial, and to an attorney, and you cannot be criminally prosecuted without evidence.


Here in CT our drinking while carrying statute reads nearly identically to the MV statute with 1 exception.... no implied consent. They can't even take your pistol permit without evidence. (Well, they can, but that is an entire process regarding suitability ... they can't take it for the mere act of refusing a field sobriety test) Because in CT's Constitution, "Every citizen has the right to keep and bear arms in defense of themselves or the state".

I would be closer to ok with monitoring than I would be with a safety. Safeties FAIL!!!

i really think its just a matter of $$$, AGAIN.

the irish guy's thing seems pretty cool- did you hear the little noise the gun makes when you grab it?

looks quicker than a safety...

and cops could have the rifd part embedded in their hands, so NO cops shot when their guns are grabbed in a fight...

i hear you about the 'fail rate' - i think LE would have to approve of them 1st, so they'd be 'workable'


In Basic Pistol, we teach that a safety is a mechanical device which can fail.
A failure is infrequent but it does happen.
We NEVER rely on safeties! That's pretty absolute in my book, knowing someone who accidentally shot something in his home.
It was a comedy of errors.
1) He was handling a loaded gun in a place he shouldn't have. (All loading/unloading of guns happens in a particular room which I deem safe)
2) He did not have a final firing grip on the gun so he dropped it
3) Instead of letting it drop he tried to grab it, a la Plexico Burress
4) When he grabbed it, his finger went on to the trigger.
5) It was a 1911, which has a thumb safety which was activated. It failed. He brought the gun to a gun smith and reproduced the failure.

And that cool little noise is a GREAT way to give away your position in a home invasion or low light situation.
Kind of like racking a slide to scare away a bad guy.

"i will agree there may be a 'slippery slope' here!
the cell companies aren't the best firewall- a privacy clause in any gun tracking regs would be necessary, sure.
the Patriot Act is a horrendous prob, also for sure! "

I would be amenable to solutions involving 2 branches of government. The information MUST be safeguarded from the Executive/LE if it is allowed to be kept (NICS records)... also - and I am not really applying this to you, but the Tiart amendment was an imperfect solution to protecting privacy. Clearly it can be improved, but that is the intention.

As for the Patriot Act, I guess I have 2 takes...
1)If you wouldn't want it in the Patriot Act to "protect" us from terrorists, it doesn't belong in a Gun Law to protect us from Gun Violence and
2) If you can't have the law make sense by substituting "Gun" for "Perscription Drug" it probably also is a bad restriction.

Just my 2% of an inflated dollar.

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Response to av8r1998 (Reply #88)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:44 PM

93. just a couple of thoughts on the GPS gun thing

it could easily be put into law that the gun can only be GPSed if stolen of linked to a crime- so no worries for you.

it would probably make people think twice if they bought a gun on video cam about going around the block and robbing a bank?

so who knows what the technology is on that, or the cost, but the triggersmart also looks pretty good.

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Response to farminator3000 (Reply #93)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 04:56 PM

95. How does it authenticate?

 

Key fob?
That can be stolen.
Also, I wouldn't trust it.
A safety is a mechanical device which can fail. In this case the failure is the failure of the gun to go bang.
The 2 loudest sounds in the world are a bang when you expect a click, or a click when you expect a bang.
I don't like biometric safes either

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Response to av8r1998 (Reply #95)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:26 PM

98. here's an interesting bit

http://sentencing.typepad.com/sentencing_law_and_policy/2008/02/technology-smar.html

February 23, 2008
Technology, smart guns, GPS tracking and a better Second Amendment
I just noticed on SSRN this effective short article about the modern Second Amendment debated headlined "Public Safety and the Right to Bear Arms." I found the final paragraph of the piece especially insightful:

would involve examining how best to recognize and protect the right while also allowing legislatures leeway to develop criminologically sound measures designed to limit, in so far as possible, access to weapons on the part of career criminals and those who are mentally unstable. Such a debate would involve recognizing that the right to have arms has been and remains part of the American Constitutional tradition, that it is valued by large segments of society and that the right sets real limits on governmental regulation. It also involves recognizing that measures designed to keep weapons out of undesirable hands are not necessarily inconsistent with this right. In the second half of the twentieth century, we were unable to develop this kind of debate on the national level precisely because of the effort to redefine the Second Amendment into meaninglessness, perhaps in the first half of the twenty-first century a greater willingness to recognize the Second Amendment will allow the dialogue to begin.

-skip-

Meanwhile, I found this interesting piece in Science Daily providing a positive view of smart gun technology, but it was written in 2005. Of course, 2005 does not seem that long ago, but it certainly is in the fast-moving world of technology. (Consider again the swift pace of GPS technology advances: in 2005, a car-friendly GPS device cost thousands of dollars, now such devices are available for under $100 and are becoming a standard feature in many vehicles.)

Gun_diversity Notably, I discovered that, in June 2001, the Bush Administration put out this very interesting document an "NIJ 'Smart Gun' Solicitation," which included this assertion: "NIJ is interested in bringing 'smart gun' technology to the law enforcement community as rapidly as possible, but in a manner that develops confidence in the technology through a clearly defined development, evaluation and demonstration process." So, apparently seven years ago there was a serious commitment by the Bush administration to bring "smart gun technology to the law enforcement community as rapidly as possible." Does anyone know how that's coming along these days?

In my view, techonology could and should provide a much more refined and effective way to regulate an individual right to bear arms than, say, completely prohibiting all felons from having guns. An effective smart gun technology could and should be able to keep guns out of the hands of those who are unlikely to be able use guns safely — e.g., kids, illegal purchasers, those with a history of violence or mental illness, abusive spouses under an active restraining order — while ensuring that police officers and lawful gun owners have little reason to worry about their own gun rights and usage.

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Response to farminator3000 (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:50 PM

58. Obama stands firm on gun control despite long odds

The White House says Obama is not writing off any part of his package despite the long odds for the assault weapons ban in particular before votes are scheduled or he takes his arguments on the road. Education Secretary Arne Duncan, who has been helping push the gun control package, said he and Obama spoke on the matter Sunday and agreed that Washington in a vacuum is unlikely to move quickly.

"If this is Washington trying to drive this by itself, it doesn't go very far,"
Duncan said at a meeting with college presidents who have signed on to help lobby Congress to take action to protect students.

The White House said Obama made his maiden trip on the gun control package to Minneapolis because the city has taken steps to tackle gun violence, including a push for stricter background checks. The city launched a program in 2008 aimed at providing more resources for at-risk youth and helping rehabilitate young people who have already committed crimes.
http://www.beloitdailynews.com/news/national/obama-stands-firm-on-gun-control-despite-long-odds/article_b586db9e-b749-52fd-b24b-427f8ba5187a.html

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Response to farminator3000 (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:52 PM

59. Inmate Finds and Returns Gun State Trooper Accidentally Left in Gym<--a gold star for gun safety!

After the game, when everyone went home, an inmate cleaning the gym bleachers as part of a work release program with the Russell County Detention Center found the gun. He immediately reported it to his supervisor. The jailer tells LEX18 Tommie Bryant is the inmate who found it.

"I'm glad we had a good, honest, decent inmate that found the gun," says Murray.
http://www.lex18.com/news/inmate-finds-and-returns-gun-state-trooper-accidentally-left-in-gym/

thank you, Tommie Bryant!

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Response to farminator3000 (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 07:18 AM

62. Here's something we should all do to improve our future

Listen to my song about guns and the NRA....

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Response to farminator3000 (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 07:52 AM

76. Oh good. Someone else telling me what to do.

Except for the one in my belt, mine are in a locked safe.

That's a better solution for me.

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Response to geckosfeet (Reply #76)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 09:26 AM

78. ^^^^ This

 

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Response to geckosfeet (Reply #76)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 09:58 AM

80. just meant as a helpful suggestion/reminder. who else is 'telling you' things?

a couple of thoughts, since you chipped in-

i hope by 'belt' you mean 'holster'

i wouldn't want anybody to read that and think 'one in the belt' is safe.

Mr. av8r recommends a good holster, i see.

Plaxico Burgess did 2 years in jail because his gun slipped out of his belt in a club and shot him in the leg.

ouch x 2.



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Response to farminator3000 (Reply #80)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 11:35 AM

85. Belt AND Holster

 

Good holster to hold the gun securely in place so that it wont fall, and to protect the trigger from being activated by something.
A lot of people forget the BELT. Should be kydex reinforced and hold the holster securely. It should also be sized correctly for the holster.
If you have a 1 1/2" belt and 1 3/4" loops on the holster, it will change poistion. At the very least you will have difficulty drawing.

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Response to av8r1998 (Reply #85)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 02:38 PM

90. Yes. Alessi iwb ON a Beltman belt.

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Response to geckosfeet (Reply #90)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 07:41 PM

99. comp-tac minotaur open slide

 

For all small frame glocks.
It holdes my g17 19 and 26
But i admit the tension is a little tight for the longer 2 guns.
Not sure why. May losen it and get a new one for the 26.
Comfortable as hell though.
And a galco 1 1/2 belt, kydex reinforced.

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Response to av8r1998 (Reply #99)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 10:45 PM

100. I don't know. I haven't found a kydex holster I like.

Much prefer leather. I have an Alessi (talon plus model) for my Walther P99c AS and one for my G30.

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Response to geckosfeet (Reply #100)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 06:45 AM

101. Neither had i

 

I hadnt even found an iwb holster i liked.
I was carrying a sig 226 inand a galco combat master for years til i needed to do a better job concealing in warm weather.
(New dress code).
So i tried it with a g26 and love it.

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Response to farminator3000 (Reply #80)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 02:38 PM

89. I don't need non-gun users 'splaining to me the finer details of concealed carry

Thanks though.

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Response to farminator3000 (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 07:53 AM

77. gun safety is an oxymoron

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Response to bowens43 (Reply #77)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 09:27 AM

79. Get some training....

 

You will see that it isn't
Unless Pool Safety, Car Safety and Table Saw Safety are ALSO OxyMoron's

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Response to bowens43 (Reply #77)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 10:00 AM

81. safety THIRD!!!

if abstinence or refusal aren't options!

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Response to farminator3000 (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:22 PM

106. 'what if my wife suddenly had a psychotic breakdown and got all shoooooty'

What if you did. Get rid of the gun.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #106)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 01:33 PM

111. just a hypothetical situation

the part about the recycling bin is most likely, i wish i was kidding about that...

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Response to farminator3000 (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:46 PM

107. Lock--and I mean lock-- it away from small kids. A memory here...

When I was small our across the street neighbors were both cops working for the LAPD. One day their equally small son and daughter decided to show me and my brother their daddy's gun. It was in a box in the top of a bedroom closet far above our heads. The boy got a chair, climbed on the chair, reached way up and brought it down from its hiding place. We handled the forbidden thing, felt it, and then put it away, and no one ever knew. I was the oldest, which meant I was all of 7 years old, maybe even younger.

I don't know why the memory surfaced so much later, but it may have had something to do with me becoming a parent myself. My hair kind of stood up when I realized what might have happened if the boys had decided to pretend to be Roy Rogers or the Lone Ranger.

The moral of this story is: The curious little devils KNOW where your secret stuff is hidden, and if it is both very forbidden and very powerful, they will find a way to it. Lock it.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #107)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 01:17 PM

109. + 1,000,000 ^^^

The moral of this story is: The curious little devils KNOW where your secret stuff is hidden, and if it is both very forbidden and very powerful, they will find a way to it. Lock it.

PERFECTO!!! ^^^

that's my condensed version, THANKS!!!

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Response to farminator3000 (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:46 PM

108. The rabid coyotes in your neighborhood are apparently more casual than the ones I've seen.

Not harshing on your idea but this arguably negates much if not most of the utility of owning a gun. Your situation, and the measures you're taking to mitigate it, probably argue for just selling it to the local pawn shop.

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #108)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 01:31 PM

110. it was in the 'too dizzy to stand up' phase, not attack mode

not pretty.

all i'm sayin' is take apart the ones you aren't using on a daily basis.

the situation is totally hypothetical, just a reminder to think twice. or thrice.

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Response to farminator3000 (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 09:06 PM

113. self-kick and look at #107

http://www.triggersmart.com/Pages/TriggerSmart.aspx

and more people should see post #107

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