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Fri Feb 1, 2013, 06:24 PM

A question about how Christians are perceived:

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Stinky The Clown (a host of the General Discussion forum).

Do you think of "liberal" denominations ( Episcopalians, United Church of Christ) differently from "conservative" denominations (Southern Baptists) ? Where do you place the Roman Catholic Church?


Just curious as to how these different groups are seen.

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Arrow 38 replies Author Time Post
Reply A question about how Christians are perceived: (Original post)
hedgehog Feb 2013 OP
wryter2000 Feb 2013 #1
upaloopa Feb 2013 #2
hedgehog Feb 2013 #3
upaloopa Feb 2013 #6
cbayer Feb 2013 #4
Lars39 Feb 2013 #10
cbayer Feb 2013 #12
Lars39 Feb 2013 #13
cbayer Feb 2013 #16
Lars39 Feb 2013 #17
cbayer Feb 2013 #21
Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #5
upaloopa Feb 2013 #8
cbayer Feb 2013 #9
Bluenorthwest Feb 2013 #19
upaloopa Feb 2013 #28
Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #20
BigDemVoter Feb 2013 #7
Posteritatis Feb 2013 #18
Bluenorthwest Feb 2013 #11
odiumestpuritas Feb 2013 #14
Lydia Leftcoast Feb 2013 #15
odiumestpuritas Feb 2013 #22
OriginalGeek Feb 2013 #23
hedgehog Feb 2013 #29
Tikki Feb 2013 #24
mr blur Feb 2013 #25
jwirr Feb 2013 #26
SharonAnn Feb 2013 #27
jwirr Feb 2013 #30
doc03 Feb 2013 #31
11 Bravo Feb 2013 #32
cbayer Feb 2013 #33
doc03 Feb 2013 #35
cbayer Feb 2013 #37
RainDog Feb 2013 #34
forestpath Feb 2013 #36
Stinky The Clown Feb 2013 #38

Response to hedgehog (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 06:26 PM

1. Episcopalian here

Lord, I hope people see us differently from the fundies. We're battling the church in England so we can do the right thing. And we're battling some of our own fundies. It'd be nice not to be dumped in with the haters.

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Response to hedgehog (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 06:28 PM

2. Judge Christians by their actions.

I was baptized Catholic. My dad was a Southern Baptist. Neither of us adhered to the precepts of our churches.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 06:30 PM

3. I guess why I'm asking the question is I'm wondering why so many people have

left the churches.

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Response to hedgehog (Reply #3)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 06:35 PM

6. My answer to that question is that they find

spiritual expression elsewhere.

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Response to hedgehog (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 06:31 PM

4. There are splitters and there are lumpers.

Another way of putting it is that there are those that can recognize the difference between the political leanings of christian groups, and there are those that don't see those differences and appear to have animosity towards all of them.

This site appears to have an inordinate number of the 2nd group. IMHO, they hurt the causes that liberal christians share with other liberals and progressives.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #4)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 06:40 PM

10. Being abused by conservative churches is what hurts the causes, not the victims of that abuse.

Abuse does tend to color a person's view.

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Response to Lars39 (Reply #10)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 06:50 PM

12. If one is abused by a schoolteacher, does one then have the right to attack and condemn

all schools and all teachers?

Of course it colors one view. And the rage is justifiable and understandable.

But when one extends it to a huge group that has many different kinds of people and institutions in it, that is just blind bigotry.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #12)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 06:53 PM

13. More like learned response.

Some people can get past the abuse, while others can't. Still shouldn't blame the victim.

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Response to Lars39 (Reply #13)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 06:54 PM

16. Not blaming the victim. I support the victims and did real work with them.

I blame the bigots.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #16)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 06:56 PM

17. You would do better to blame the abusers.

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Response to Lars39 (Reply #17)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 07:05 PM

21. I do blame the abusers and their protectors and did real work with them as well.

It's also important that those who may share some identification with the perpetrators take a very hard stand against them, as has been done by many progressive and liberal religious people and organizations (and may be happening more within the Catholic church, as was seen in Los Angeles today).

And there are many anti-theists who will loudly deny any kind of personal abuse whatsoever. They just somehow have a "truth", much like a one-way fundamentalist.

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Response to hedgehog (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 06:33 PM

5. Look at the Supreme Court

for your answer on Catholics...7 Catholics... 5 of whom are crazily conservative.

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #5)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 06:38 PM

8. But that is a poor way to describe all Catholics.

My brother is a priest and about as far from those guys as you can get.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #8)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 06:39 PM

9. And there are many like your brother.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #8)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 07:00 PM

19. Do you mean he is far away from the 5 crazy conservatives or far away from the 2 who are

more liberal? It is hard to tell, because you say your brother is not like 'those guys'. The other poster did not say those guys were all alike, the other poster said 5 were conservative. 2 are not. Which set is your brother far from?
Jesus said 'let your yes mean yes'. 5 out of 7 is not 'all'. This is why I am not sure if you are saying your brother is far from Sonia or from Scalia....

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #19)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 07:35 PM

28. My brother supports liberation theology and always has

That should tell you something. He's probably a socialist.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #8)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 07:03 PM

20. That's interesting...

And 2 of the 7 Catholics are quite liberal.... I think in the past, at least, Catholics were more reliably conservative on social issues which is why we have so many of them on the court who were appointed by Republicans. I'm sure your brother is more in line with those remarkable Nuns on a Bus when it comes to matters of caring for the poor, sick and disabled.


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Response to hedgehog (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 06:36 PM

7. I DEFINITELY perceive liberal denominations differently from the "crazy" ones. . . .

When I say "Crazy", I mean the absolute fundies. . . .

Where do I place the Roman Catholic Church? Hmmm. Very good question. . . . I used to think of the RCC as a relatively benign religion. . . . HOWEVER, today I see it in a much more negative way. After all the scandals with priests raping children, the coverups of said rapes, the absolute ban from the RCC on abortion AND birth control, the way in which women, gays, and other groups are treated, I have ZERO patience or respect for the Roman Catholic Church. Furthermore, when I see all those eunuchs prancing around in their miters & robes, I have to admit that I find them appallingly ridiculous.

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Response to BigDemVoter (Reply #7)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 06:57 PM

18. The RCC in particular's probably incredibly location-specific for its members, too

Someone growing up Catholic in Boston would probably have a pretty different worldview from someone growing up in backwoods Quebec, even if they might generally agree on dogma. A lot of the smaller denominations seem more internally consistent in their members, though there's all kinds in any of them.

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Response to hedgehog (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 06:47 PM

11. Most people who are not in some organized religion have no idea that one is supposed to be

so different from the other. It's too 'inside baseball'. What most people do is look at how a person carries themselves, and they see that as who that person is. The club membership is not really relevant to most outside the clubs.

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Response to hedgehog (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 06:53 PM

14. The only way I differentiate between the sects is by their actions

 

then it is on an individual basis. Otherwise I have the Gandhi view of Christians.

I apply this standard to all religious adherents of all faiths.

If one keeps their religion to themselves, are not preachy and donít use their religion as a club I could careless what ones religion is.

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Response to hedgehog (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 06:54 PM

15. The fundamentalists and evangelicals have hijacked the word "Christian" to refer only to themselves

Liberal Protestants, Roman Catholics, and Eastern Orthodox are not Christian by their definition.

This confuses people from outside Christianity, so if asked about my religion, I never tell people that I'm Christian, but that I'm Episcopalian (which is true), since we are widely known as being different from the megachurch types.

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Response to hedgehog (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 07:06 PM

22. I think your answer is here

 

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Response to hedgehog (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 07:12 PM

23. I am an atheist who was raised in a fundamentalist baptist home

I'm sure there might be non-nutjob baptists but I was never exposed to them.

I was surprised a few years ago to find the Catholic schools teach real science (I should qualify that I am only speaking that I've heard they accept evolution and other things that my nut-job baptists family and church don't). I like that they are against the death penalty. I don't think I know much else, good or bad, about them - as baptists we were taught that Catholics were a step above satan worshipers but it was a very tiny step.

My aunt and uncle are Methodists and are two of the kindest, sweetest, gentlest, awesomest people on the planet. Their kids, my cousins, are some of my favorite people in the world. They are all religious but there is no way in the world I could lump them in with the nutjob fundies I grew up with. (My aunt and my mom are sisters but my aunt was quite a few years older than mom - like 12 or 15 or something like that). They are progressive democrats and very liberal in most every way that counts with me. They are in their 70s now so if they are conservative about anything it is in just matters of manners and things like that. They are fully and explicitly on-board with marriage equality and national health care anti-racism and everything else that makes me proud to be a Democrat.

By the way, I notice you mentioned Southern Baptists. Growing up, we thought of Southern Baptists as liberal backsliders destined for, at best, a shitty parking spot in heaven. Some were probably hell-bound and didn't know it. lol.

Now, for the actual question, I feel bad that when I hear someone is a Christian my first impulse is to think they are a fundie nutjob. I've gotten better about keeping my fool mouth shut until I learn whether or not I'm right. I think I should try to train myself to default to progressive liberal Christian first and then be sadly proven wrong on occasion. But yes, I do view different types of Christians differently when I know a person is one kind or another.

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Response to OriginalGeek (Reply #23)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 07:36 PM

29. Jimmy Carter is a Southern BAptist left behind by a denomination lurching ever to the Right.

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Response to hedgehog (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 07:15 PM

24. No, not really...I don't know anything about any religions...

Used to be a man/woman took pride in judging another by how each
would treat each other in everyday life, based on each one's ethical
behavior.

Not so much anymore. Seems like now-a-days some take pride in jumping the gun
and hoping with all their might they will be able to say..."I win, I told you so".


Tikki

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Response to hedgehog (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 07:23 PM

25. Merely different extremes in self-delusion.

Which does not mean that I hate them all or think they're stupid (lest anyone feels like ranting on about "nasty atheists").

People are free to believe anything they wish, just as the rest of us are free to laugh at it.

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Response to hedgehog (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 07:25 PM

26. I am from a liberal Lutheran church and I do see the difference. Years ago while talking about

"liberation theology" I was told that the Catholic Church makes room for many differing ideas in its church and I think you can still find that today. They have both extremes. And for that matter so do most denominations. Mine included.

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Response to jwirr (Reply #26)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 07:35 PM

27. Years ago, perhaps. But today direction comes from the conservatives.

Liberation Theology is not permitted to be taught as far as I can see. That's been really shut down.

Too bad, because I had finally found an aspect of Catholicism that might allow me to practice it. But they've shut that down and doubled down on the sexist stuff.

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Response to SharonAnn (Reply #27)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 07:44 PM

30. IMO that is their loss.

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Response to hedgehog (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 07:48 PM

31. I make it a practice to avoid people that describe themselves as "Christian"

usually they are bigots and hypocrites.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #31)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 07:52 PM

32. The next time you visit your physician, ask for irony supplements.

You are clearly running a tad low.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #31)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 07:52 PM

33. I think people that call a huge group of incredibly diverse people

bigots and hypocrites might be displaying some of that themselves.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #33)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 07:59 PM

35. I am not talking about the average Catholic, Presbyterian,

Lutheran, whatever. It's the people that call themselves "Christians" and think if you don't have the same exact beliefs as them you are going to hell and most of them will even tell you that. I was in the hospital several years ago and my roommate tells his visitor that he is the only "Christian" on the entire floor. Oh it was a Catholic hospital. It's the "born again" "fundamentalists" types.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #35)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 08:29 PM

37. Thank you for making the distinction, because that's not what it sounded like.

I happen to agree with you about those that feel that have the only way.

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Response to hedgehog (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 07:56 PM

34. I understand why people find value in religious affiliation

whether it's considered liberal or conservative. Of course I am not as hostile toward religious groups that hold beliefs that are not offensive to me.

however, I don't place any value on someone's religious affiliation or belief.

at the same time, I recognize that people have found a voice and value through religious association, such as with the civil rights movement... but that was 50 years ago.

I place the Roman Catholic Church within the realm of "part of the problem," along with fundamentalists and pentecostals and other evangelical religious groups.

Any religious group that claims evolution must denied is, imo, an evil institution.

Any religious group that tries to force women to give birth is, imo, an evil institution.

At this point in time, religion, to me, seems like baggage from a culture that reality has outgrown.

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Response to hedgehog (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 08:12 PM

36. I shouldn't have to have any opinion of them at all. Unfortunately

 

too many of their practicioners want to deny me the right to control my own body and the right of others to love who they want to.

That colors my view of all religions, especially since even Democratic administrations cater to religious organizations. And they are all tax exempt, so my taxes help subsidize them, and as an atheist, that seriously pisses me off to the point where it's irrelevant to me whether one religion is more benign than another.

I'll make a distinction when they all start paying taxes.

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Response to hedgehog (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 08:48 PM

38. After host discussion it was agreed this is a religion thread

Please feel free to post in a more appropriate forum.

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