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Fri Feb 1, 2013, 10:24 AM

KRUGMAN-'US ruled by fear of nonexistent threats+promised rewards that havenít arrived & never will'

So what do we learn from the rather pathetic search for austerity success stories? We learn that the doctrine that has dominated elite economic discourse for the past three years is wrong on all fronts. Not only have we been ruled by fear of nonexistent threats, weíve been promised rewards that havenít arrived and never will. Itís time to put the deficit obsession aside and get back to dealing with the real problem ó namely, unacceptably high unemployment.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/01/opinion/krugman-looking-for-mister-goodpain.html?_r=0

64 replies, 10056 views

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Reply KRUGMAN-'US ruled by fear of nonexistent threats+promised rewards that havenít arrived & never will' (Original post)
kpete Feb 2013 OP
Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #1
CTyankee Feb 2013 #29
Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #43
CTyankee Feb 2013 #44
Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #45
CTyankee Feb 2013 #49
Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #52
CTyankee Feb 2013 #53
Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #55
CTyankee Feb 2013 #56
Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #60
JDPriestly Feb 2013 #2
abelenkpe Feb 2013 #3
MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #4
libtodeath Feb 2013 #5
xtraxritical Feb 2013 #8
bvar22 Feb 2013 #13
xtraxritical Feb 2013 #24
Scootaloo Feb 2013 #25
rhett o rick Feb 2013 #33
Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #41
Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #17
sulphurdunn Feb 2013 #11
The Wizard Feb 2013 #30
rhett o rick Feb 2013 #34
socialist_n_TN Feb 2013 #37
libtodeath Feb 2013 #39
socialist_n_TN Feb 2013 #42
supercats Feb 2013 #46
bvar22 Feb 2013 #12
rhett o rick Feb 2013 #36
840high Feb 2013 #6
Stuart G Feb 2013 #7
backscatter712 Feb 2013 #9
siligut Feb 2013 #50
Zax2me Feb 2013 #10
Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #15
Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #14
leftstreet Feb 2013 #16
Rex Feb 2013 #18
eomer Feb 2013 #19
libodem Feb 2013 #20
freshwest Feb 2013 #21
toby jo Feb 2013 #22
woo me with science Feb 2013 #23
haikugal Feb 2013 #26
Sherman A1 Feb 2013 #27
tama Feb 2013 #28
woo me with science Feb 2013 #31
joetubes Feb 2013 #32
ananda Feb 2013 #35
RickFromMN Feb 2013 #38
jwirr Feb 2013 #40
SunSeeker Feb 2013 #47
L0oniX Feb 2013 #48
patrice Feb 2013 #51
tblue37 Feb 2013 #54
CTyankee Feb 2013 #57
tblue37 Feb 2013 #61
CTyankee Feb 2013 #62
tblue37 Feb 2013 #63
CTyankee Feb 2013 #64
DeSwiss Feb 2013 #58
RainDog Feb 2013 #59

Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 11:36 AM

1. The biggest non-existent threat is a collapse of the bond market with stimulus.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #1)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 07:06 AM

29. they're still beating that tom tom...

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #29)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 11:03 AM

43. A Right Winger will flip out if you say, "share the wealth" and call it "Commie"....

But the way the Republicans sold the Public on "trickle down" was to paint an image of everybody suddenly seeing a big increase in their paycheck and your out of work bum of a nephew would get a job and move out of the basement.

It assumed a "share the wealth" through payroll.

All of the DC economists are STILL acting like ANY increase in the marginal rate is going to lead to mass unemployment.

They also act like tax rates have remained fixed for generations.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #43)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 11:07 AM

44. better to talk about loopholes for "some" and income disparity which has resulted.

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #44)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 11:33 AM

45. The PROBLEM as Krugman points out is the notion that Washington will waste money,...

....so the conventional wisdom is to not give them any.

The mantra is, "We don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem" so they're all focused on cutting spending.

But not at the Pentagon.

Also, Republicans have convinced their followers that the rich need more money or they wont work and the poor need less money or they wont work. Meanwhile, the typical Republican dreams of becoming rich so they never have to work again.

Telling them you want to create jobs is less attractive than telling them you want to "create wealth".

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #45)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 01:13 PM

49. not if you point out how the system allowed the wealthy to keep more of their income

than you do. I think those Republicans who dream of being rich resent working their asses off and get none of the rewards that is supposed to trickle down on them and reward them for all their hard work...

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #49)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 03:28 PM

52. Doesn't matter. Republicans are telling the workers times are tough....

Your poor boss would LIKE to give you a raise but the government is taking away all of his money in taxes.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #52)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 03:40 PM

53. That has worked in the past but now workers are seeing how royally they have gotten

screwed. I think the impact of the near collapse of our economic system has had a sobering effect. Seeing that video of Mitt Romney telling rich folk that workers are all a bunch of moochers had an effect. The utter hypocrisy and disdain really woke a lot of these "wannabes" up. Back during the good old days of the Clinton admin the republican workers could imagine themselves being rich one day but when they saw how devastated their lives had become when the disaster hit in 2008 was another story...

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #53)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 04:39 PM

55. Actually, it was the bailout that woke people up....

The idea that these guys ran to the government for help after claiming the government was the problem.

There are STILL idiots out there claiming the entire crash was the fault of the government helping minorities. When you talk about jailing people on Wall Street they say, "What for?"

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #55)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 04:45 PM

56. the crazy fringe alas will always be with us...

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #56)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 11:20 PM

60. As long as they're fed.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 11:59 AM

2. Wonderful article.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 12:07 PM

3. K&R

Wish I could recommend this more than once!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 12:11 PM

4. Krugman. Not Simpson and Bowles. nt

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 12:13 PM

5. K&R

Krugman should have a cabinet position,he is an economic realist and genius.

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Response to libtodeath (Reply #5)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 12:45 PM

8. He proposes the policies that any accredited macro economics 101 course would teach.

 

Dim wit conservatards and republiCONs either equate economics to a simple household budget or have an ulterior agenda.
Stick with Democrats.

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Response to xtraxritical (Reply #8)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 02:11 PM

13. Stick with Democrats.... like Rubin, Geithner, and Summers...

...and all the other "Centrist" NeoLiberals who believe in deregulation, Free Markets, and a Giant Invisible Hand,

...because that has worked so well.

All HAIL the Invisible Hand.
The Invisible Hand will Save us All!!



The Graven Image on the altar of the new Church of the Invisible Hand.
Like other religions, this new church demands absolute Blind Faith submission to an invisible deity for which no proof exists.





You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their rhetoric, promises, or excuses.
Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #13)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 11:36 PM

24. I think you're forgetting about a completely obstructionist RepubliCON congress...

 

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Response to xtraxritical (Reply #24)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 01:54 AM

25. Bvar actually makes a fair point

Neoliberal economic horseshit is as entrenched in the Democrats as it is in the Republicans. It just happens to be the one and only thing that the Democrats are better at framing than Republicans are.

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Response to xtraxritical (Reply #24)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 09:57 AM

33. That's the "there is nothing we can do" rationalization. The Presidential appointments have

been favorable to the financial industry (the elites) and not the masses.

It is really simple. Those that have been in charge of the treasury and Fed for the last decade plus have failed and failed horribly. It was their job to manage the economy and the economy crashed. Did Pres Obama replace them? No.

When Democrats whine that they are stymied by the republicans, the question we should ask is "how hard are you trying?".

Looks like the President and Congress are willing to let us go through another crash as they have done very little to prevent it.

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #13)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 10:32 AM

41. You used the wrong side....

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Response to xtraxritical (Reply #8)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 02:34 PM

17. Um, he was rejected from consideration out-of-hand by the President in his first term.

 

After being removed from consideration, Dr. Krugman said he didn't want it but advocated for Dr. Stiglitz, who was also removed from consideration by President Obama.

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Response to libtodeath (Reply #5)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 01:03 PM

11. Krugman

cannot have any position of authority in this country. That is because his position contradicts the official group think narrative of the ruling class. Remember, Wall Street loves high unemployment. The higher the better. It keeps wages depressed. Depressed wages translate into higher profit. Higher profits translate into spiking stock prices. Spiking stock prices translate into higher CEO compensation. Higher CEO compensation means more legal bribes paid to the corporate dick lickers we've come to accept as our political and media classes.

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Response to sulphurdunn (Reply #11)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 08:03 AM

30. Astute observation

The same concept works for defense contractors who make campaign contributions to certain legislators who in turn reward them with contracts that, in the end, weaken the military and damage the economy. Legislators taking bribes from lobbyists is how we're governed (ruled). The Citizens United decision removed all barriers to corruption.
And how much gets hidden in the Cayman Islands?

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Response to sulphurdunn (Reply #11)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 09:58 AM

34. Exactly. We must get more progressive people in Congress.

Support the Progressive Change Campaign Committee.

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Response to sulphurdunn (Reply #11)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 10:19 AM

37. Yep. Neo-liberalism has been enshrined by the PTBs.......

as the ONLY economic path for the world because it puts more money and power into their hands. Even a capitalist economist like Krugman CANNOT be listened to because his positions, EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE CAPITALIST IN NATURE, do NOT echo the conventional wisdom of the ruling class, i.e., neo-liberalism.

It doesn't matter whether it works in the real economy or not. It works in it's primary job which is funneling wealth and power upwards and that's the only thing that matters. Marxists have seen this coming for a couple of centuries now. It's no surprise to me.

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Response to socialist_n_TN (Reply #37)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 10:28 AM

39. Perfectly said

any mention of socialism gets shouted down even though it is the one system that works for everyone.

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Response to libtodeath (Reply #39)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 10:37 AM

42. "any mention of socialism gets shouted down..."

Well call me an optimist, but the shouting is getting believed less and less by the population. That's why we have such a disconnect between what the people feel about economic issues and what the political class gives us on those issues. Eventually, this disconnect will spark a change when a critical mass is reached.

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Response to sulphurdunn (Reply #11)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 11:43 AM

46. AGREE 100%

Very well said.

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Response to libtodeath (Reply #5)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 01:16 PM

12. Sorry.

Only people who Got-It-WRONG (from the Iraq War, to Free Trade, to the Housing Bubble, to Wall Street, to The Economy) get rewarded with positions of power and authority in this administration.

Nobody wants some Goody, goody, two shoes, "hey, I was RIGHT & You all were WRONG" smarty pants NERD hanging around, especially when they KNOW what they are talking about and have the track record to PROVE it.

Failing ^UP^!!!
It is The Uniquely American Solution!

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #12)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 10:06 AM

36. Well said. Currently the elite are making money by the tons at the expense

of the masses. And, unless something is done soon, they will orchestrate another big payday (threat of crash). The President and Congress either cant or wont stop it. The elites are going to push the masses as far in debt as they can w/o revolution.

The Fed is supposed to regulate the economy. The Fed board is mostly appointed by the banks it's supposed to regulate. "How's that working for us?"

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 12:15 PM

6. k/r

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 12:28 PM

7. K and R nt. thanks for posting

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 12:48 PM

9. People and nations have been ruled by nonexistent threats and rewards since the beginning of time.

Where do you think religion came from?

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #9)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 02:32 PM

50. Yes, that omnipotent narcissist in the sky

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 12:55 PM

10. I LOVE this article.

 

Krugman's mind is wasted as a journalist.
He should be engineering an economic comeback instead of reporting on all the screwups.

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Response to Zax2me (Reply #10)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 02:29 PM

15. He doesn't want it. But Stiglitz volunteered with Krugman's endorsement.

 

They were both excluded by the President from any consideration.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 02:28 PM

14. ...and unacceptably low wages.

 

And unacceptably nonexistent or weak labor laws.
& R

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 02:31 PM

16. DURec

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 02:39 PM

18. Wall street ciminals realized that the powers that be

wouldn't stop them from creating these fake 'crisis' so they could steal billions of dollars and continue to do so. These supposed 'job creators' in reality did nothing but steal and steal and steal...with maybe a slap on the wrist and some pocket change for a fine (IF THAT). Then right back to stealing!

One day we will fine and imprison the leaders of the plutocracy...nah kidding, that will never happen. Ever.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 04:00 PM

19. K&Rugman (eom)

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 05:00 PM

20. I think he is brilliant

Cuz he is!!!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 10:08 PM

21. Keep kicking ass and taking names, Paul! No one does it better than you...



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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 10:55 PM

22. Maybe Warren will get in and take him with her.

Don't think she's got the gonads anymore than O does, but it sure would be sweet. Somebody's gonna get in and get things straight. Lightening strikes once in awhile.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 11:35 PM

23. K&R

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 02:26 AM

26. K&R

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 04:41 AM

27. K&R

Just because it's Krugman and like Robert Reich, they seem to be always right.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 05:08 AM

28. A tale by Aesop

 

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 09:18 AM

31. kick

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 09:31 AM

32. Low air pressure

You dummies have yet to learn that to fix a tire that has low air pressure,you let out more air! Signed the "tea party" and most of europe. PS. This also works great on economies.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 10:01 AM

35. One thing I have appreciated about DU is..

.. some of our members constant reminder that our country and its government needs to focus on jobs and our own people in a human way.

Jobs please!

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Response to ananda (Reply #35)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 10:21 AM

38. Yes, indeed. Jobs please! Good paying jobs please!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 10:30 AM

40. I did not read it because the headline says everything.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 11:49 AM

47. Ruling by fear of nonexistent threats and rewards is the Republican platform. nt

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 12:36 PM

48. If it's government ...it's lies. If they can lie to get a war going without punishment then...

they will continue to lie ...about anything and everything.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 02:34 PM

51. K&R

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 04:01 PM

54. The focus of all those who argue on the correct side (like Krugman) is

misplaced. The real problem is that the deficit hawks do not care about promoting economic recovery. What they care about is maintaining the policies that will most handsomely reward their cronies and paymasters. If the ordinary citizen suffers as a result, that is not something that concerns them.

Krugman is wise, but he still seems to assume they don't know that their policies are disastrous, but if he can convince them, they will change their approach.

They know perfectly well that austerity will undermine the recovery--they just don't care.

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Response to tblue37 (Reply #54)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 04:50 PM

57. Oh, I think he knows it pretty damn well! He just can't accuse them of it...

He also knows as we all suspect that the republicans know full well that if another stimulus makes things better, Obama and the Dems will be even MORE popular and the repubs will lose once again in 2016. The evidence of history with FDR hasn't been lost on them!

but Krugman can't say that's what they are doing, he has to debate them on the merits (or lack thereof) of their argument. In private, I'll just betcha he talks like we do about republicans. The guy is just too damn smart not to know what we know...

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #57)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 06:47 AM

61. Yeah--you're almost certainly right. It is frustrating as all get out, though, isn't it? nt

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Response to tblue37 (Reply #61)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 06:57 AM

62. that's why some smart person photoshopped Paul's head on that pic of George Clooney

walking away from the burning car: "Paul Krugman is tired of trying to reason with you people."

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #62)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 07:04 AM

63. I LOVE that picture. nt

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Response to tblue37 (Reply #63)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 09:03 AM

64. We oughta do a "we're sorry" thingie like we did after W won in 04...

Maybe something like "We're sorry, Dr. Krugman, that you have to put up with idiots."

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 06:04 PM

58. Carrot, stick, etc.....

- K&R

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 07:37 PM

59. k&r n/t

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