HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Tawana Brawley ordered to...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 09:39 AM

Tawana Brawley ordered to pay up (over false kidnap/rape claims)

Steven Pagones will have to wait and see if the woman he was falsely accused of raping 25 years ago will pay up or flee — again.

A Virginia court has ordered Tawana Brawley’s employer, a nursing home in Richmond, Va., to garnish her wages, Surry County Court records show. The 40-year-old nurse working under the name Tawana V. Gutierrez owes Pagones $431,492 after she lost a defamation lawsuit more than a decade ago, court records and the Journal archives show.

Still, there is a chance Brawley could leave town, change her Social Security number and use an alias, as she is alleged to have done multiple times, said Pagones’ lawyer, Garry Bolnick.

“We had her in various different places that we tried to serve papers,” he said. “The legal process is sometimes slow, and that does give a defendant a step ahead of you.”

..

In 1987, Brawley was a 15-year-old Wappingers Falls resident when she was found in a trash bag, covered in feces and racial slurs. She claimed she was kidnapped and raped by a group of white men, and her high-profile attorneys and adviser, the Rev. Al Sharpton, later accused Pagones, then a prosecutor with the county’s District Attorney’s Office. That case brought national media attention and racial tension to the county.

When a grand jury did not indict Pagones, he filed and won a slander lawsuit against Brawley, Sharpton and her attorneys.

http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/article/20130201/NEWS01/302010034/Brawley-ordered-pay-up-attorney-fears-she-ll-run-again-see-photo-gallery-previous-coverage

43 replies, 3299 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 43 replies Author Time Post
Reply Tawana Brawley ordered to pay up (over false kidnap/rape claims) (Original post)
The Straight Story Feb 2013 OP
kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #1
jmg257 Feb 2013 #2
kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #12
jmg257 Feb 2013 #13
kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #37
joeunderdog Feb 2013 #31
kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #38
Zax2me Feb 2013 #3
FightForMichigan Feb 2013 #4
hughee99 Feb 2013 #10
leftynyc Feb 2013 #19
leftynyc Feb 2013 #18
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #21
Xithras Feb 2013 #22
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #25
southernyankeebelle Feb 2013 #30
Xithras Feb 2013 #36
southernyankeebelle Feb 2013 #43
kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #32
Xithras Feb 2013 #42
cecilfirefox Feb 2013 #40
lumberjack_jeff Feb 2013 #24
kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #35
Boomerproud Feb 2013 #5
jmg257 Feb 2013 #8
Nye Bevan Feb 2013 #6
kudzu22 Feb 2013 #14
Go Vols Feb 2013 #7
KittyWampus Feb 2013 #9
Go Vols Feb 2013 #11
RZM Feb 2013 #16
Nye Bevan Feb 2013 #17
leftynyc Feb 2013 #20
lumberjack_jeff Feb 2013 #23
Ligyron Feb 2013 #28
RandiFan1290 Feb 2013 #15
stevenleser Feb 2013 #26
jmg257 Feb 2013 #29
stevenleser Feb 2013 #33
BeyondGeography Feb 2013 #34
bluestateguy Feb 2013 #27
cecilfirefox Feb 2013 #39
JW587 Feb 2013 #41

Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 10:41 AM

1. While he DID win a huge civil judgment against her,

she WAS only 15 when that incident happened.

And he IS an attorney, who presumably makes a LOT more money than her.

So while he is within his legal rights to pursue her for payment, at some point it's perhaps going to make him seem a bit like Inspector Javert.

Garnishment takes so much money from people's paychecks that they cannot possibly survive on what remains. I had to garnish an employee's wages many years ago and she had to quit because it left her nothing to live on.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #1)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 11:00 AM

2. Have you ever been falsely accused of rape, especially in a case with so much national attention?

Sure as hell she didn't know Pagones or the other 5 men she accused from Adam when her advisors built upon her BS to come up with that beaut of a story.

He already gained retribution from her advisors.

Maybe his persistance isn't really about the money?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jmg257 (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 02:30 PM

12. Oh, it's almost certainly no about the money, which he certainly won't ever see much of.

It's about ruining her life. He is obviously bound and determined to do that. I am unsure whether or not he is justified in continuing to try to do that, given that 25 years has passed and that she was an idiotic teen when she accused him.

I think I have a problem with what he's doing. He can't let it go. He can't forgive. And maybe he should. Especially if she has proved to be of some value to society.

Because what she accused him of was so absurd, given that she had never even met him, how much could his reputation still be suffering after 25 years?

I am torn between what he has the legal right to do, and how he might have some residual anger (that one could argue IS justified), and what perhaps is the WISEST and most compassionate course of action. He is letting this eat at him even now. That can't be healthy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #12)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 02:50 PM

13. Yet she still hasn't paid ANY damages. Is her moving from job to job

and identiy to identity to avoid paying restitution 'ruining her life'?
Maybe..but 25 years ago it cost Pagones plenty in HIS life.

Years ago he said he was 'moving on' once her and Sharpton, et. al. were held accountable, but it could be he wants her to feel something, to somehow take some personal responsibility for all that bullshit.

Healthy? Not too sure. But I could see how even the slightest sign of her accepting the vile selfishness of her actions, no matter how much she was manipulated by those used her, would be satisfying.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jmg257 (Reply #13)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 04:39 PM

37. I thought she had apologized years ago. Apparently she never has, and continued to

call him a rapist for TEN YEARS.

So, yeah, not so sympathetic at this point.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #12)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 04:32 PM

31. This wasn't jaywalking in Mayberry.

It was a Rape accusation that put him in the national spotlight.

Now she's the victim?

15 y/o's do bad things and sometimes spend their lives living it down. In the end, the fact that she has made no effort to make things right leaves me with little sympathy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to joeunderdog (Reply #31)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 04:41 PM

38. I thought she had apologized years ago. Apparently she never has. So she has no one to blame

now but herself.

The man she accused has apparently said that he would forget about the money if she and Sharpton would come forward with a sincere apology.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #1)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 12:45 PM

3. She owes money?!

 

This is a very old case. Certainly she has PAID dearly her entire life.
Putting a financial number to it now seems not judiciary but arbitrary at best, revengeful at worst.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zax2me (Reply #3)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 01:30 PM

4. Hold on

Pogones received a judgment in his favor 14 years ago. Since then, Brawley has allegedly evaded paying it by moving around, using aliases and fake social security numbers. I don't think you mean to say that if you can avoid a judgment for long enough, it should be null-and-void -- do you?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zax2me (Reply #3)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 02:03 PM

10. Some might say "No justice, no peace". n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zax2me (Reply #3)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 03:15 PM

19. She's paid dearly?

How?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #1)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 03:10 PM

18. It's the very least

that lying piece of shit owes him. She has never admitted to making up the entire thing, never apologized for allowing the situation to cause race relations in the city to spiral downward, never apologized to Mr. Pagones for falsely accusing him of rape. She's 40 years old now and still hasn't come clean. Fuck her.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #1)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 03:46 PM

21. +1. I don't see how a 15-year-old can be held liable.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HiPointDem (Reply #21)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 03:51 PM

22. She's not being held liable for anything she said or did at 15.

I'm just going to repost the same comment I made on the subject last night when it came up in another discussion:

The defamation judgment was entered in 1998. She was still trying to defend the hoax in 1997, ten years after it happened, and when she was 25 years old. She was still, a decade after the whole thing went down, publicly referring to him as a rapist. It would be one thing if we were only talking about the statements she made in 1987, but she kept repeating the accusations long after she was old enough to know better in some desperate attempt to save face. When she was finally sued and was given a chance to defend herself, she didn't even bother showing up to court. She skipped town and changed her name.

Pagones is the victim here. He did nothing wrong, had his life disrupted for years, his marriage destroyed, and his name and photo smeared across the national media by her pointless hoax. She already got off pretty easy by not being charged with faking the crime...paying some cash to her victim as compensation isn't too much to ask.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Xithras (Reply #22)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 04:06 PM

25. didn't know that.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Xithras (Reply #22)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 04:30 PM

30. Your right he was wrongly accused. However, she was 15 yrs old scared to death of

 

her parents and what they would do because she came home late. So she made up this crock and her parents went on to prosecute this man. I would have sued her parents and Rev Al. At some point they found out the truth. The parents could have gone on national tv and apologized to the man. I wouldn't be surprised he might not have sued. But none of that happened. They dragged him through courts. I am sure its not about the money. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if he donated it to some place. Now maybe if she got a lawyer and try to contact the man who knows he might say forget it as long as you go on a national tv show and tell the whole truth.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to southernyankeebelle (Reply #30)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 04:39 PM

36. Again, this isn't about what she said at 15

It's about what she said at 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, and 25. In 1997, on the 10th anniversary of the original "incident", the press tracked her down and she said it again.

She wasn't sued over what she said at 15. She was sued over what she said at 25. And even then, she had a chance to defend herself. She didn't bother.

Pagones, to his credit, has offered to drop the claim if she'll just tell the truth. She just has to do it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Xithras (Reply #36)


Response to Xithras (Reply #22)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 04:34 PM

32. Wow. For some reason I thought she had long since confessed to the lie and apologized.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #32)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 04:53 PM

42. Yeah, it doesn't make any sense.

Factually, the grand jury didn't simply find that there was no evidence of a rape, but it found overwhelming evidence that the entire story was fabricated (like the witnesses placing her at a party when she was supposed to have been kidnapped, or the other one who saw her climb into the garbage bag). Her boyfriend coming out a few years later and explaining how she'd told him that the whole thing had been a ploy to get out of trouble with her parents just confirmed everything the grand jury found.

There's no logical reason for her refusal to apologize, but most of us have had the misfortune to deal with liars who refuse to admit that they're lying, even when it's bluntly clear to everyone that there's no truth to what they're saying. It seems like they believe that ADMITTING you're a liar is worse than simply having everyone THINK you're a liar.


The insane thing with Brawleys case is that she WAS just a teenager. People would have forgiven her if she'd just admitted everything once the truth was exposed. It's her own stubborness that's getting her into trouble at this point.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Xithras (Reply #22)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 04:52 PM

40. You hit the nail on the HEAD! No mercy for her, she could probably have settled this matter a long

time ago, fessed up to it, and gave this man some closure.

She wrecked him, past the point of being a scared kid, knowingly, deliberately, willfully, and maliciously she WRECKED this man's life! I'm astonished, ASTONISHED at the amount of sympathy people here are dishing out on her. It's unfathomable to me!! On what planet do some of our posters spend the majority of their time? This man is completely justified, this woman is a villain, there's no discussion about it- it is both clear and cut.

I for one will stand alongside the actual victim here.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #1)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 04:00 PM

24. What do you mean by "incident happened"?

I see Brawley as having limited blame for what she did as a teen, but those who lead the blind rush to judgment in cases like this (and the Duke lacrosse case) are absolutely culpable.

That said, she was an adult when she changed her name and social security number to avoid the court judgment.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #24)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 04:37 PM

35. The incident I refer to is when she was found and claimed she had been raped.

Apparently she continued to claim the guy raped her for TEN YEARS, knowing it was a bald-faced lie. She has never apologized.

I am feeling lass sympathetic toward her now.

Perhaps she has mental issues.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 01:41 PM

5. I have no sympathy for her.

Yes, she was 15 when it happened-but I knew right from wrong at 15. I would never have falsely accused someone of anything. IIRC she ran away from home and that's what started this story. I also remember candlight marches against the alleged rapists and the police for "covering it up".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Boomerproud (Reply #5)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 01:54 PM

8. Yep...a grand lie to keep her from getting in trouble with her mother/step father.

That led to false accusations, mistrust of law enforcement, defamations of character, protest marches, and highly increased levels of racial tension in a a city or 2 that really don't need that type of help.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 01:46 PM

6. Pagones said he will forgive the payment if she tells the truth and apologizes.

Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #6)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 02:55 PM

14. I hope that's what she does

It'd be best for everyone and finally put this case to rest.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 01:50 PM

7. Let Rev Al pay her part too

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Go Vols (Reply #7)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 01:58 PM

9. Why? I am glad back then someone was willing to stick up for a young black woman.

Yes, he was mistaken. But even today it's not that easy to find people willing to go to the mat for a young woman of any color.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KittyWampus (Reply #9)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 02:16 PM

11. Did you watch the vid?

Al knew she was lying and kept pushing anyway.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KittyWampus (Reply #9)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 03:05 PM

16. Not so much

 

It became personal for Al, which is why he kept going even after he knew the story was bogus. That fact completely negates any possible credit he would have been due. Even he now admits that making it so personal with the officers was unwise.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KittyWampus (Reply #9)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 03:07 PM

17. If by "go to the mat" you mean "accuse people of rape with no evidence at all, ruining their lives",

then yes, he went to the mat all right.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KittyWampus (Reply #9)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 03:17 PM

20. She had all the sympathy in the world

NOBODY was defending Pagones. Her lies (and rev al's) set race relations back 20 years in NY. And neither one has owned up to the lies. They're both garbage.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KittyWampus (Reply #9)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 03:53 PM

23. Wow.

Much like people today "stick up for" Crystal Gayle Mangum?

There are always people willing to go to the mat for a young woman of any color, and some are willing to stay there long after they learn they that the object of their chivalrous crusade is not worth defending.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Go Vols (Reply #7)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 04:11 PM

28. That's Al Sharpton?

I thought it was Al Rocher channeling James Brown or sumptin'

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 03:00 PM

15. When do we get paid back for WMD lies?

I'm sure that subject doesn't cause as much butthurt, eh?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 04:06 PM

26. A $431K judgment against a dumb 15 year old kid? And its being pursued into her 40s?

A 15 year old that had murdered someone would be out of jail 25 years later.

I totally get that the guy's name was dragged through the mud but the adults involved and her parents are the folks that should have been sued. Not her. I realize some of those folks were also sued.

SHe should apologize.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to stevenleser (Reply #26)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 04:19 PM

29. Great point up-thread - the lawsuit was in 1998 when she was +/-25yrs old. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jmg257 (Reply #29)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 04:35 PM

33. That does change things a bit.

She should apologize.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to stevenleser (Reply #33)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 04:37 PM

34. Apparently, that's what Pagones is really asking for

“People criticize me for going after a hardworking single mother trying to support herself and child. My argument has been she has not been held accountable.

“If she is not going to tell the truth, then it is about the money. That is the only way to hold her accountable,” said Pagones, who is now principal owner of a private investigations firm.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/time_to_pay_up_tawana_VNfKyp8kwALfSZZE4DdAQI

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 04:09 PM

27. She needs to pay up.

No more excuses. Pay up.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 04:47 PM

39. Good! I hope he collects from the liars. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Reply to this thread