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Thu Jan 31, 2013, 06:53 AM

$67,000,000,000 pissed down a rat hole



80 replies, 11082 views

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Reply $67,000,000,000 pissed down a rat hole (Original post)
Scuba Jan 2013 OP
Voice for Peace Jan 2013 #1
Sherman A1 Jan 2013 #2
glowing Jan 2013 #4
TrollBuster9090 Jan 2013 #7
truth2power Jan 2013 #21
Nuclear Unicorn Jan 2013 #22
reACTIONary Jan 2013 #59
tavalon Feb 2013 #71
RC Jan 2013 #47
truth2power Feb 2013 #75
RC Feb 2013 #77
hogwyld Jan 2013 #26
xtraxritical Jan 2013 #33
glowing Jan 2013 #38
xtraxritical Jan 2013 #49
jeff47 Jan 2013 #40
glowing Jan 2013 #50
jeff47 Jan 2013 #51
cbrer Jan 2013 #3
fasttense Jan 2013 #9
annabanana Jan 2013 #15
cbrer Jan 2013 #24
xtraxritical Jan 2013 #34
xchrom Jan 2013 #5
underpants Jan 2013 #6
JHB Jan 2013 #13
Luminous Animal Jan 2013 #62
msongs Jan 2013 #8
liberal N proud Jan 2013 #10
MrYikes Jan 2013 #11
Cooley Hurd Jan 2013 #12
reteachinwi Jan 2013 #14
Scuba Jan 2013 #16
reteachinwi Jan 2013 #20
Tunkamerica Jan 2013 #17
tavalon Feb 2013 #72
Tunkamerica Feb 2013 #80
The Wizard Jan 2013 #18
LTG Jan 2013 #19
Hotler Jan 2013 #23
bulloney Jan 2013 #25
raouldukelives Jan 2013 #29
think Jan 2013 #27
grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #28
rivegauche Jan 2013 #30
L0oniX Jan 2013 #31
wildbilln864 Jan 2013 #32
Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2013 #35
bvar22 Jan 2013 #36
Milliesmom Jan 2013 #37
Egalitarian Thug Jan 2013 #39
Fight2Win Jan 2013 #41
felix_numinous Jan 2013 #42
librabear Jan 2013 #43
benld74 Jan 2013 #44
lark Jan 2013 #45
Thinkingabout Feb 2013 #78
lark Feb 2013 #79
Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2013 #46
indepat Jan 2013 #48
abelenkpe Jan 2013 #52
SmileyRose Jan 2013 #53
kentuck Jan 2013 #56
maggiesfarmer Jan 2013 #60
A HERETIC I AM Jan 2013 #57
maggiesfarmer Jan 2013 #61
A HERETIC I AM Jan 2013 #64
maggiesfarmer Jan 2013 #66
A HERETIC I AM Jan 2013 #67
maggiesfarmer Feb 2013 #69
toddwv Feb 2013 #68
uponit7771 Jan 2013 #54
madrchsod Jan 2013 #55
Kablooie Jan 2013 #58
KoKo Jan 2013 #63
maggiesfarmer Jan 2013 #65
Scuba Feb 2013 #70
maggiesfarmer Feb 2013 #73
Scuba Feb 2013 #74
patrice Feb 2013 #76

Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 06:58 AM

1. THAT's where the cuts need to be..

biggest waste of taxpayer money

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Response to Voice for Peace (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 06:58 AM

2. Precisely

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Response to Voice for Peace (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 07:15 AM

4. That's one of the reasons the war has lasted so long and that

these contractors set up a shop in every state. If we cut off the MIC/ War Society, we must have a place for all those involved in the business of war to work. As of now, it would be like letting Detroit go bankrupt. One of the very reasons that we need to change directions entirely in our overall economy. Otherwise, we start another recession.

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Response to glowing (Reply #4)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 07:21 AM

7. Perpetual war. Great for the economy.

After all, it's more stimulating to the economy when you actually USE those bombs, so that you have to go and buy more of them.

That's a sad truth.
What's a sadder truth is that Obama TRIED to switch the economy from a 'weaponized Keynesian' economy (to quote Krugman), to a 'green energy Keynesian economy' and/or a 'healthcare industry Keynesian economy' and was blocked from doing so. The idea of shunting money to the green energy industry, so that it would have CLOUT when it came to lobbying Congress was brilliant, but unfortunately it was too little too late. The 2008 recession was a great opportunity to change the direction of our economy from a war machine to a renewable energy machine, and we blew it.

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Reply #7)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 08:43 AM

21. Instead of making weapons of war, the government could heavily subsidize

the cost of putting solar panels on the roof of my home.

OR

install a geo-thermal heating system (which is very costly, so I understand).

Kill two birds with one stone, as it were. Put people to work manufacturing the above, and increase the use of renewable energy.

Of course, if that happened, the Rethugs would have even more reason to call me a TAKER.

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Response to truth2power (Reply #21)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 08:59 AM

22. And the tripe they waste ur money on

In October 1962, Licklider was hired by Jack Ruina as Director of the newly established Information Processing Techniques Office (IPTO) within DARPA, with a mandate to interconnect the United States Department of Defense's main computers at Cheyenne Mountain, the Pentagon, and SAC HQ. There he formed an informal group within DARPA to further computer research. He began by writing memos describing a distributed network to the IPTO staff, whom he called "Members and Affiliates of the Intergalactic Computer Network". As part of the information processing office's role, three network terminals had been installed: one for System Development Corporation in Santa Monica, one for Project Genie at the University of California, Berkeley and one for the Compatible Time-Sharing System project at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT). Licklider's identified need for inter-networking would be made obvious by the apparent waste of resources this caused.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Internet


Like anybody uses that thing anymore.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #22)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 10:10 PM

59. I've been involved in projects that use LTP...

...the Licklider Transport Protocol, named in his honer. Used for deep space transmissions.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #22)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 06:46 AM

71. Wrong information Bucko!

That guy didn't invent the internet. Al Gore did.

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Response to truth2power (Reply #21)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 03:43 PM

47. Ground source heat pump, or actual geothermal?

 

Most people think the are the same. They are even close.
Real geothermal is what powers Old Faithful and volcanoes.
Ground source heat pumps are pipes in the ground, instead of air forced through an outside radiator (condenser).
You take heat out of the ground in winter and put it back in the summer.

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Response to RC (Reply #47)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 05:54 PM

75. I really didn't know that....

So, is there such a thing as an actual geothermal heating system?

Seems like I've seen ads around town for companies that call themselves "geothermal" something or other.

Thanks for the clarification.

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Response to truth2power (Reply #75)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 06:33 PM

77. It is just marketing.

 

"Geothermal" sounds so much more cooler and greener than "Ground Source Heat Pump" GSHP sound like you are are pumping the bilges or something. Yuck, who needs that?
And they can then charge more by calling it the exciting, scientific, sounding Geothermal.
Iceland uses geothermal heating. Most places in the US, it is way too expensive to get to the heat, even for industry.

The place where I worked had a ground source heat pump. There were two 300 foot wells for the ground source side. The fresh air fiends insisted on opening the windows too many summers in a row. That caused the A/C to run a lot more than designed. The ground around the wells got to be heated so warm, the air conditioning stopped working. It couldn't pump any more heat into the ground. They had to add a large (noisy) double fan radiator outside to cool the circulating water enough for the A/C to work. The first winter we tried keeping the windows open to suck enough heat out of the ground for the A/C to work the following Summer. No go. Even with the added radiator, when it got hot outside, it was a struggle to keep up. But up till then, the system worked great.
Kinda defeated the ground source concept. Something to keep in mind.
When heating or cooling a building, keep the damn windows closed.

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Response to glowing (Reply #4)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 09:53 AM

26. That, and by the very nature of war

a reduction in those seeking work through combat deaths and disability. My, how sad to see how far this country has fallen from it's ideals.

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Response to glowing (Reply #4)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 12:23 PM

33. All that money and all those employess and many unemployed Americans

 

could be employed rebuilding Americas infrastructure, schools, libraries, plumbing, etc. Military spending is just welfare for nefarious engineers and scientists. These companies produce nothing of value, they're even worse than hedge funds.

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Response to xtraxritical (Reply #33)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 01:46 PM

38. I agree. They could have been trained in engineering

advances in renewable energy and modern transportation and finding better systems of using water and disposing of waste. Instead people who must pay for education, have to think about who will pay their bills. There are many who would like to think of another way around building or particpating in death.

My own life and education was paid for in parts from parents who worked at a small precision machining shop. GE was a mega contract, when the first gulf war happened, the shop literally made the tip of the Parriot Missle. I still have a few (that didn't pass tolerance) at my home in VT. I remember being in elementary school and bringing it in to school as a "proud" item to hold in my hand. It's hard to escape, even if you want nothing to do with it. And I don't at all, now that I've grown up. I have chosen not to purposely insert my science training into military, "war builders", or pharma; hence, I work at a hotel now. But I also have to recognize that a significant portion of my life was in part funded by the MIC. That life allowed for the ability to be in a better position to grow up with food, a roof over my head, and ultimately, the ability to learn, analyze and decide how I would choose to want to live.

If only Bush had never made it in office, I believe we would have been further down the road to sanity and in a much more stable world. All we can do is try to unwind the BS and push forward.

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Response to glowing (Reply #38)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 05:54 PM

49. I'm not dissing the people that have these jobs, they need them like everyone needs jobs but

 

I am dissing our government institutions that make these short sighted decisions that are bankrupting this country.

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Response to xtraxritical (Reply #33)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 02:24 PM

40. I presume the irony of saying that on the Internet is lost on you. (nt)

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #40)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 06:29 PM

50. It is sad that war has brought often brought our

technologies into more advanced stages. If it weren't for better medical technology in the war field in keeping blown up bodies alive, we may not have advanced the field of artificial limbs. So, the medical field has advanced due to the horror of battle and death.

We also got a lot of technology from NASA and that costs a lot less than war. I wish NASA was still up and running, rather than an over-priced jet that still isn't running properly (the latest is that it can't fly near lightning - that has it grounded and a few more billions down the ole tube).

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Response to glowing (Reply #50)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 06:37 PM

51. I'd rather have military research that has civilian uses

than no research at all.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 06:58 AM

3. And we can't afford single payer health care

 

And we must expect to cut SSA benefits due to austerity.

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Response to cbrer (Reply #3)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 07:27 AM

9. Not so sarcastic

This country implemented austerity in 2010 when Obama froze federal worker's pay.

We are going to go deeper into that austerity this year as more spending cuts add to the burden of the RepubliCON Great Recession.

Expect a double or triple dip recession coming soon, just like in Europe.

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Response to fasttense (Reply #9)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 08:07 AM

15. Can't we shake off this "austerity" crap?

It's worked so well in Europe...

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Response to annabanana (Reply #15)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 09:30 AM

24. Depends on ones definition

 

Which in the political realm, is like the Mississippi. Wide and deep...

In some very real senses, we are experiencing "austerity" now. It could get worse. I haven't seen BHO take any concrete steps towards making sure we don't make that slide. Especially in terms of the implementation of ACA. Which, as it turns out, has hidden little traps and costs of its' own.

But I agree with your point.

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Response to cbrer (Reply #24)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 12:26 PM

34. The American Jobs Act has been languishing in Boehner's Congress for almost two years.

 

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 07:17 AM

5. du rec. nt

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 07:20 AM

6. re-posted on Facebook to a "Should we drug test welfare recepients?" post

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Response to underpants (Reply #6)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 08:02 AM

13. That's another one. Look at the political ties of testing-facility owners...

...for example, from 2011:
One of the more popular services at Solantic, the urgent care chain co-founded by Florida Gov. Rick Scott, is drug testing, according to Solantic CEO Karen Bowling.

Given Solantic's role in that marketplace, critics are again asking whether Scott's policy initiatives - this time, requiring drug testing of state employees and welfare recipients - are designed to benefit Scott's bottom line.

The Palm Beach Post reported in an exclusive story two weeks ago that while Scott divested his interest in Solantic in January, the controlling shares went to a trust in his wife's name.

This raised a groundswell of concern and questions about his health policy initiatives, especially his push to move Medicaid into private HMOs. Solantic does not take Medicaid but does business with private Medicaid HMOs. The questions are growing louder with Scott's executive order on drug testing.
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/business/gov-rick-scotts-drug-testing-policy-stirs-suspicio/nLq8f/

After this article was published, Scott sold his Solantic stock (apparently not to his wife's trust), but gee, gee, considering he was a co-founder, just maybe his policies benefit his old pals and business partners?


And how did that testing work out?
Preliminary results from the state’s first round of testing, however, has seemingly proven both of those claims false. Only 2 percent of welfare recipients failed drug tests, meaning the state must reimburse the cost of the $30 drug tests to the 96 percent of recipients who passed drug tests (two percent did not take the tests). After reimbursements, the state’s savings will be almost negligible, the Tampa Tribune reports:
Cost of the tests averages about $30. Assuming that 1,000 to 1,500 applicants take the test every month, the state will owe about $28,800-$43,200 monthly in reimbursements to those who test drug-free.

That compares with roughly $32,200-$48,200 the state may save on one month’s worth of rejected applicants.

Net savings to the state: $3,400 to $5,000 annually on one month’s worth of rejected applicants. Over 12 months, the money saved on all rejected applicants would add up to $40,800 to $60,000 for a program that state analysts have predicted will cost $178 million this fiscal year.
***
As for Scott’s second claim, that drug use is higher among welfare recipients, the test results also show that to be false. While only 2 percent of welfare recipients failed drug tests, a 2008 study by the Office of National Drug Control Policy found that approximately 8 percent of Floridians age 12 and up had used illegal drugs in the last month, and 9.69 percent had smoked marijuana in the last year.
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/08/24/303133/drug-testing-welfare-recipients-could-line-rick-scotts-pockets-but-it-isnt-saving-florida-much-money/


The testing gets paid for either way: by the applicant if it's positive, by the state if it's negative. As long as there's a supply of applicants, there's money to be made -- enough to lobby for. Call me "liberal" but that seems like a mismatch of incentives.








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Response to JHB (Reply #13)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 10:24 PM

62. Excellent post!

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 07:27 AM

8. democratic politicians and leadership have priorities you know nt

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 07:39 AM

10. Makes the cuts they want to make to "entitlements" small change.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 07:49 AM

11. This has got to stop. nt

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 07:57 AM

12. This sounds like a perfect thread for this:



Ike nailed it.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 08:06 AM

14. Every state in the nation

 

gets defense department spending.

Government spending fell at a 6.6 percent annual rate, driven by a 22.2 percent decline in defense spending, subtracting 1.33 percentage points from the growth rate in the quarter.
http://www.alternet.org/economy-shrinks-heres-why-its-not-bad-news?page=0%2C0

So defense cuts should be spent as a "peace dividend" on infrastructure or education or (your project here) to prevent more economic pain than we are already in.

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Response to reteachinwi (Reply #14)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 08:10 AM

16. How about healthcare and green energy?

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Response to Scuba (Reply #16)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 08:31 AM

20. (your project here)

 

Basic research is always a good investment. Banksters are not.

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Response to reteachinwi (Reply #14)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 08:12 AM

17. My little brother just got laid off from a gov. contract as a rocket scientist

new baby on the way and has to move back home, but he did find a new job in motorsports so... no tears.

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Response to Tunkamerica (Reply #17)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 06:53 AM

72. A rocket scientist just got a job in motorsports?

There is something mindnumbingly awful and yet sidesplittingly amusing there. I'm so, so sorry. I think it's the same sick funny bone that finds jokes in disasters. If it makes you feel better, I'm quite sure I'm going to hell for having laughed. Probably the hottest part for not keeping this to myself.

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Response to tavalon (Reply #72)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 02:06 AM

80. to be somewhat vague he focused on airflow during his phd program

but yeah.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 08:29 AM

18. How much ends up

in Cayman Islands shadow accounts traceable back to a defense contractor garnering influence with a legislator?

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 08:29 AM

19. Boeing 2010 Total Revenue (from all sources) - $64,000,000,000

That is a LOT of taxpayer money being pissed down that "rat hole". Money that could have been better spent in many ways. It's hard to imagine what value for everyday Americans was received for all those dollars. No way to justify many of them.

Only a tiny nit to pick, as a resident of Boeing's hometown. Their revenue from non-DOD contracts far exceeded what they got from the Pentagon. It doesn't take a ton of deliveries to make a lot of money when your products cost between $80 and $300 million dollars a piece. Most of those products assembled here in the Puget Sound area by union workers.

That in no way diminishes the point of the OP, just a small misstatement in the source material.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 09:15 AM

23. Fucking A! n/t

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 09:47 AM

25. "Every one of them gets most of their revenue from the Federal Government"

How much do you want to bet that all of those companies' executives are hard core Republicans who talk among themselves on how we need to cut federal spending and engage in austerity measures for programs aimed at lower and middle class Americans?

The late owner of the Baltimore Ravens, Art Modell, once described the NFL owners as a bunch of card-carrying conservatives who practice socialism. That describes the 1%ers in this country in general as well.

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Response to bulloney (Reply #25)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 11:02 AM

29. Yep, that is why war & military spending is the GOP's sacred cow.

Not to mention Wall St. Those companies form the backbone of many Americans retirements. Every drone strike means an investor gets a nickel.
They must keep the war machine going at any cost. As evidenced by the huge amount of people we have offed the last decade in order to keep the bonuses flowing and the smiles wide of fake tanned, Audi driving, mall shopping, third world slavery supporting, climate change deniers who make up the landscape we call the American investor class.
The day they realize it is leading us nowhere but down will have to be a bright day indeed. Money cures everything for them, even the soul, and the blinders they wear are made of 14k gold.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 10:06 AM

27. We shovel money for war like coal for an unquenchable fire....

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 10:43 AM

28. A 50% cut for Big War returns us to PRE-Bush levels and save every social program....

Actually a 20% cut in just the big war budget would yield more revenue than the sequester.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 11:17 AM

30. I used to work for one of those contractors.

I was the only woman and the only liberal in the department and it really kinda sucked. The only thing that soothed the friction was knowing that I was increasing my donations to my favorite liberal causes and candidates, with the money I earned from the company. This was back in the late 90s during the Lewinsky scandal. One guy I worked with actually argued with me that Clinton's cheating was Hillary's fault. Not even kidding, that's the kind of mentality those assholes have.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 11:19 AM

31. How much for that Death Star again? n/t

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 11:44 AM

32. k & r! nt

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 12:50 PM

35. These companies are NOT beyond resorting to drastic measures to protect their bottom line...

Some are well connected on a worldwide basis to the point where they could use their contacts in other countries to stage a false flag with full support from Republicans to back them up that they had nothing to do with it.

It was kind of creepy that the premier of "The X Files" spinoff "The Lone Gunman" was about an attack of the World Trade Center with a commercial airliner flown in by remote control to justify a bloated defense budget.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 01:24 PM

36. DURec.

And since our Leadership & Media FAIL to give the needed voice to this issue,
it is up to the Grass Roots to do so.

Begin by simply spreading the word among friends & neighbors.
The next level is Call Ins to Radio and LTTEs.

E-Mail to our Political Leadership and Reps is worthless.
"They" already know.



You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their rhetoric, promises, or excuses.
Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 01:45 PM

37. Petition to stop Amgen from stealing our money

Please follow the link and sign the petition. Thank you!!

http://www.progressivesunited.org/action/amgen?utm_source=sp5125421&utm_medium=e&sc=sp5125421&refcode=sp5125421







Former Sen. Russ Feingold's (D-Wis.) non-profit group, Progressives United, launched a petition Tuesday criticizing the pharmaceutical company Amgen for successfully lobbying to get a provision favoring one of its drugs, which could cost taxpayers up to $500 million, added to the "fiscal cliff" deal.

The petition calls for Amgen to give back the $500 million. "Thanks to more than 30,000 of your fellow progressives, our petition is taking off, even garnering national media attention to shine a bright spotlight on Amgen's overreach," wrote the group's executive director, Cole Leystra, in an email to supporters. "But Amgen still has an army of back-door lobbyists ready to quiet opposition and shell out targeted campaign contributions."

The New York Times reported on Jan. 19 that Amgen, through its aggressive lobbying efforts, won a provision delaying Medicare price controls for two years on a class of drugs that includes Sensipar, an Amgen drug for kidney dialysis patients. Amgen has 74 lobbyists and financial ties to Sens. Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), Max Baucus (D-Mont.) and Orrin Hatch (R-Utah.)

Rep. Peter Welch (D-Vt.) introduced a bill on Jan. 23 repealing the provision favoring Amgen.

"We're fighting to save Medicare so middle-class families don't lose out on the benefits they've earned, but right-wingers and corporate-backed think tanks have been pushing these cuts in an effort to undermine the closest thing we have to a public option in health care coverage," said Leystra. "At the same time they are seeking to slash essential Medicare benefits, they are handing out $500 million in corporate welfare to companies like Amgen. You and I shouldn't have to foot the bill for a naked corporate handout like the one Amgen just received."

The California-based company pleaded guilty in December to illegally introducing a misbranded drug into interstate commerce and paid $762 million to resolve criminal and civil liability, a record for a biotechnology firm.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 02:02 PM

39. Consider how many people make a decent salary based on nothing more than stealing the product of

 

the nation's labor. This is terrible, but the fact that hardly any of us know or care about it is obscene.
& R

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 02:37 PM

41. and they aren't even telling us the whole truth because the Pentagon(& Homeland Sec) is not audited

 

The Government Accountability Office said Thursday that it could not complete an audit of the federal government, pointing to serious problems with the Department of Defense.

Along with the Pentagon, the GAO cited the Department of Homeland Security as having problems so significant that it was impossible for investigators to audit it. The DHS got a qualified audit for fiscal year 2012, and is seeking an unqualified audit for 2013.

The report released by the GAO on Friday indicates serious accounting problems at two of the largest government agencies: the Pentagon and the Department of Homeland Security. The Department of Defense has a net cost of $799.1 billion to the federal budget, while the Department of Homeland Security has a net cost of $48.7 billion.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/18/gao-audit-federal-government-defense_n_2507097.html


This is unacceptable and every time one of the right wing assholes starts complaining about spending, blaming seniors and people on welfare, they need to be confronted with this question...every time...until they shut the fuck up and stop lying about who is spending and wasting all of our tax money.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 02:48 PM

42. How much of this money is now in the form

of spent ordinance? And these corporations have more representation than millions of anti-war protesters.

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.
Dwight D. Eisenhower

Peace~~~~Felix

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 02:55 PM

43. not "most"

 

Don't know about the others but there's no way the govt is Boeing's biggest customer.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 02:55 PM

44. A-M-E-N brother!

K&R

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 03:07 PM

45. Rat bastards KBR

Can't believe Cheney's company is still on there. They have been convicted of fraud and cheating the government and are currently being sued by members of the military for endangering their lives, and we still use them, EVEN NOW, as our #7 military vendor? For shame Obama, Panetta and everyone in this process for not stopping this travesty.

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Response to lark (Reply #45)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 07:00 PM

78. KBR along with any company which has moved off shore with their companies to avoid taxes

Should immediately lose their government contracts and not receive any other government contracts until they return their company to the US and pay all taxes from the time they left. They want the gravy but don't want to pay taxes, this needs to stop, KBR living off the tax payers.

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #78)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 05:12 PM

79. Totally agree

GE is another big government contractor that's moved whole divisions to China, also rat bastards.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 03:09 PM

46. The Sacred Cow of "defense" never goes hungry.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 05:05 PM

48. A corporatist government will make sure every $ billion pissed down the MIC rat hole

will be paid for by reneging on earned benefits (euphemistically termed "entitlements") to social security and Medicare beneficiaries. That's how a corporatist government operates: you will know them by their works.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 06:58 PM

52. My work is surrounded by these companies

We artists are fish out of water in this neighborhood for sure....

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 07:48 PM

53. I call Bullshit.

Not on you Scuba but the graphic is just plain wrong and I'm skeptical that a man of Robert Reich's experience would make a mistake like that. If he did, shame on him. The truth of big corporations wallowing in the taxpayer trough paints a damning picture all by itself. We don't need to fudge the facts.


For example.

Lockheed Martin's revenues were $45.7 Billion. With Government contracts of $16.7 Billion that would make the government contracts 36% of their revenue. Now the US Government might be their biggest single customer but there's no way 36% can be called "most".

Doing the math with the other companies shows the same thing.

See them all here

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Response to SmileyRose (Reply #53)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 09:49 PM

56. What do they make and who do they sell to ??

To make such huge profits? Is it something we can buy at Walmart?

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Response to kentuck (Reply #56)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 10:10 PM

60. They' huge in air traffic control, sattelites for meterological work and space

exploration (Mars Phoenix spacecraft).

No, not items you can buy at Wal-Mart -- as you noted, they're involved in higher margin products and servies than Wal-Mart provides.

No doubt they take a huge chunk of government money -- from the US as well as other governments.

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Response to SmileyRose (Reply #53)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 09:53 PM

57. Name one single consumer product made by Lockheed Martin....

that you or I could buy without a DOD purchase order.

One.

I dare you.

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Response to A HERETIC I AM (Reply #57)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 10:23 PM

61. LH definately doesn't make consumer products, but I believe you could purchase an air traffic

control system or weather satellite without a PO from the DoD, or without clearance, which may be more relevant. Now, launching that satellite might require some clearance.

BUT, none of that really contradicts the point the OP was making -- LH get's a shit ton of government money.

NOR does it contradict what Smiley said -- that 35% doesn't count as "most" by any reasonable persons understanding. I agree with his point about not needing to fudge the facts, although it maybe could have been more tactful. Consider how quickly we'd jump over fox news if they stretched the truth on some issue by calling 35% "most" -- consider if DU held posters to the same level of integrity </rant>

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Response to maggiesfarmer (Reply #61)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 10:40 PM

64. Smileyrose is wrong, and so are you.

Go to http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us.html
Click on "Investors" at the top.
Look for the "2011 Annual Report"
Open the .pdf
Scroll down to page 3, Item 1 "Business"

We are a global security and aerospace company principally engaged in the research, design, development, manufacture, integration, and sustainment of advanced technology systems and products. We also provide a broad range of management, engineering, technical, scientific, logistic, and information services. We serve both domestic and international customers with products and services that have defense, civil, and commercial applications, with our principal customers being agencies of the U.S. Government. In 2011, 82% of our $46.5 billion in net sales were from the U.S. Government, either as a prime contractor or as a subcontractor (including 61% from the Department of Defense (DoD)), 17% were from international customers (including foreign military sales (FMS) funded, in whole or in part, by the U.S. Government), and 1% were from U.S. commercial and other customers. Our main areas of focus are in defense, space, intelligence, homeland security, and information technology, including cyber security.


Please don't try and blow smoke up my kilt.

OK?

That company, just like General Dynamics and dozens of others, gather the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of their revenue from the department of defense or similar foreign institutions which means they get almost ALL of their money from tax dollars.

Either American tax dollars or those of other countries.

Just for fun, I suggest you also open the "2012 Proxy Statement" and look at the page for "Executive Compensation".

Have a look at what the CEO of that company makes per year. Then look at the pages that reference shares of company stock held by executives.

When you have done that, just remember that ALL of that wealth comes directly from the largess of the American taxpayer.

And some people have the balls to complain about people on welfare. (not that you did)

BTW, it took me all of 45 seconds to find that blocked quote from LM's own website.

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Response to A HERETIC I AM (Reply #64)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 10:59 PM

66. Deep breath, no meant to offend, but let's review.

the issue in question is whether or not the OP's claim that "most" of those companies revenues came from "the Federal Government". (reference OP)

- the year in question in 2010 (reference OP), not 2011 or 2012
- the claimed business from the US government contracts to Lockheed in 2010 is $16.7bn (reference OP)
- L-H 2010 total sales was $45bn (reference L-H annual report)

- math: 16.7/45.8 = 36.5%

- definition "most" (reference M-W)
1. greatest in quantity, extent, or degree
2. the majority of

No offense intended. If my data was incorrect, I admit I did not vet my sources any further than the references cited above. I still believe my analysis is correct. Not blowing smoke.

peace

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Response to maggiesfarmer (Reply #66)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 11:40 PM

67. Again, from the same 2010 Annual report you linked;

Page 4
PART I
ITEM 1.
BUSINESS
General


In 2010, 84% of our $45.8 billion in net sales were made to the U.S. Government, either as a prime contractor or as a subcontractor. Our U.S. Government sales were made to both Department of Defense (DoD) and non-DoD agencies. Sales to foreign governments (including foreign military sales funded, in whole or in part, by the U.S. Government) amounted to 15% of net sales in 2010. The remainder of our net sales was attributable to commercial and other customers.


I don't need a deep breath, but please explain how 36.5% equals THEIR OWN FIGURE of 84%

- definition "most" (reference M-W)
1. greatest in quantity, extent, or degree
2. the majority of


84% is MOST

As I said, this type of firm gathers the overwhelming majority of their revenue through tax dollars, both ours and other countries. There is simply no denying it.


You didn't really think their business model changed that dramatically from one single year to the next, did you?

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Response to A HERETIC I AM (Reply #67)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 05:39 AM

69. Good digging. As noted, I got the $67bn figure from the OP. curious at this point where he got that

since it seems to under ins the point being made

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Response to SmileyRose (Reply #53)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 01:25 AM

68. From LM's 2009 financial report:

" Net sales to our U.S Government customer accounted for 85% of our total net sales in 2009 (84% in 2008 and 2007), either as a prime contractor or as a subcontractor. Our U.S. Government sales were made to both Department of Defense (DoD) and non-DoD agencies. Of the remaining 15% of net sales in 2009, approximately 13% related to sales to foreign government customers (including foreign military sales funded, in whole or in part, by the U.S. Government), with the remainder attributable to commercial and other customers. "

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/dam/lockheed/data/corporate/documents/2009-Annual-report.pdf

LM's 2010 Annual Report:

"In 2010, 84% of our $45.8 billion in net sales were made to the U.S. Government. Approximately 60% of our net sales were made to the Department of Defense (DoD), with approximately 24% attributable to non-DoD agencies. Sales to foreign governments (including foreign military sales funded, in whole or in part, by the U.S. Government) amounted to 15% of net sales in 2010. The remainder of our net sales was attributable to commercial and other customers. Our main areas of focus are in defense, space, intelligence, homeland security, and government information technology."

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/dam/lockheed/data/corporate/documents/2010-LM-annual-report.pdf

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 08:16 PM

54. +1!

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 09:12 PM

55. who else is going to protect the precious juice?

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 09:56 PM

58. But ... if contracts are ended, American jobs will be lost.

This may be one thing to consider when eliminating military contracts.
Most of the jobs are here in America and a lot of people make their living from these contracts.

I think about this because my dad was one of them.
His company made sensors that were fitted into target missiles used to test military weapons.


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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 10:26 PM

63. Hey Hey! TRUTH LIVES! n/t

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 10:44 PM

65. I'm in huge favor of more transparency into both the bidding (or lack) process and expenditure

accountability of these companies. However, "pissed down a rat hole" is a bit of a stretch.

Consider:
- Mars Phoenix lander
- ATC systems deployed in airports across the country
- weather satellite systems
- International Space Station
- some defense spending. Defense spending is highly controversial, but most voters agree some is needed. I don't pretend to know how much. Now, without research, I suspect that in 2010, Iraq and Afghanistan wars drove most of that $67bn and a lot of DU'ers would argue any money spent on those wars was "pissed" away but that's a bigger topic than this. My point is that some defense spending is necessary and not money pissed away.

That being said, let's audit those companies spending, let's audit the contract awarding process and please let's through CEO's in jail when their companies break laws.

No mean to offend, sometimes I'm accused of taking things too literally.

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Response to maggiesfarmer (Reply #65)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 05:51 AM

70. "Through" CEO's in jail? C'mon son, you can do better than that!

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Response to Scuba (Reply #70)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 07:26 AM

73. Grammar check fail -- guilty

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Response to maggiesfarmer (Reply #73)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 07:50 AM

74. Probably genetics.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 06:05 PM

76. K&R for Robert Reich on the job!!!

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