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Wed Jan 30, 2013, 07:44 PM

 

How many manufacturers of guns and bullets are there in the nation?

Do bullets have a finite amount made a year?

and if so

Can the Super Pac Mike Bloomberg has, purchase all of them outright?

I saw Walmart say there is a shortage.

Just how many are around?

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Reply How many manufacturers of guns and bullets are there in the nation? (Original post)
graham4anything Jan 2013 OP
raidert05 Jan 2013 #1
madville Jan 2013 #2
Travis_0004 Jan 2013 #3
graham4anything Jan 2013 #4
Travis_0004 Jan 2013 #6
LiberalFighter Jan 2013 #11
Crepuscular Jan 2013 #5
Socal31 Jan 2013 #7
spin Jan 2013 #8
graham4anything Jan 2013 #9
kudzu22 Jan 2013 #13
graham4anything Jan 2013 #14
kudzu22 Jan 2013 #15
graham4anything Jan 2013 #16
SQUEE Jan 2013 #23
graham4anything Jan 2013 #25
SQUEE Jan 2013 #27
graham4anything Jan 2013 #29
SQUEE Jan 2013 #31
spin Jan 2013 #18
Fla_Democrat Jan 2013 #10
ManiacJoe Jan 2013 #12
petronius Jan 2013 #17
graham4anything Jan 2013 #19
BlackhawkPaul Jan 2013 #20
ileus Jan 2013 #21
graham4anything Jan 2013 #22
SQUEE Jan 2013 #24
farminator3000 Jan 2013 #26
Recursion Jan 2013 #28
graham4anything Jan 2013 #30

Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 07:55 PM

1. Around 41 I beleive

 

http://www.manta.com/mb_35_F11E27SK_000/ammunition_manufacturers



But I know ammo is selling out like pancakes at IHOP on a sunday after church.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 07:58 PM

2. They could afford it

It's billions a year

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 07:58 PM

3. There isn't a finate supply

As of right not, most manufactures are operating 24/7, so there is no way to quick way increase supply. If somebody like bloomberg planned to buy up all the ammo, and he had the funds to keep it going for a while, ammo manufactures would buy more machines to produce more ammo.

About 10-12 billion rounds are sold a year in the US, and right now they are selling as fast as they are produced. Some manufactures have a 2 year back order right now, although I imagine one demand slows down companies will cancel their back orders, so I doubt its really that bad.

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Response to Travis_0004 (Reply #3)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 08:04 PM

4. What if he bought all the companies, and paid all the workers to do something else?

 

same with gun shop sellers

Thinking outside the box

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #4)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 08:17 PM

6. There would still be a demand.

People would fill that demand by staring new companies. There would be a short time before new companies got online, but eventually they would fill that demand. So what is bloomberg going to do, but up all the ammo startups? If he did, I would start an ammo company, and gladly sell it for a few million after a month or two of operation. A plan like that would bankrupt just about anybody.

There would also be a big increase in imports as well.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #4)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:28 PM

11. They would create other companies to create the same goods.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 08:05 PM

5. Doubt he could afford it.

Roughly 5,500 gun manufacturers in the US and another 1,000 or so licensed importers. Approx. 6,000,000 firearms a year made in this country and another 2,500,000 - 3,000,000 imported.

As far as how many cartridges are made every year? Don't know for just the US but annual worldwide production is a about 14 Billion rounds. Much of the ammo purchased by civilians in the US is foreign made.

I'd guess it all adds up to a pretty good chunk of change, more walking around money than Bloomy is likely to have on hand.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 08:21 PM

7. There are countless people who load their own.

And the ignorant run on manufactured ammo is going to cause a large surplus here in a few weeks.

Why doesn't the .gov just buy up all the supply of coke and meth each year? That should work too, right?

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 08:36 PM

8. Perhaps that you are not aware that ammo can be reloaded. ...

All you need is the expended cases, primers, powder and bullets and some fairly inexpensive equipment. It is not all that difficult to cast your own bullets from lead.

Many regular shooters reload to save money and to produce ammo tailored to be more accurate in their individual firearms than factory bought ammo. I did for 30 years and made on the average 6000 to 10,000 rounds a year to provide handgun ammo for my trips to the range once or twice a week. Reloading was an enjoyable part of my shooting hobby.

I was in no hurry to reload my ammo so I used a single stage press to reload perhaps 50 to 75 rounds an hour. I did find my own ammo to be more accurate in my firearms with the right load and more reliable than factory ammo.

Of course I could have bought a progressive press for a slightly higher price and reloaded several hundred rounds per hour.

Let me assure that that not only have gun owners cleared the gun store shelves of firearms and ammo, reloaders have also stocked up on primers, powder and bullets. Factory and reloaded ammo will last for decades and still be reliable and accurate as long as they are not subjected to extreme temperature or excessive moisture. I've fired rifle ammo from WWII and my reloads which were as old as 20 years and they functioned perfectly.

Currently we have over 300,000,000 firearm in our nations and with minimum care they can be reliable for a century or more. If they are fired frequently they can suffer some wear but the worn parts can easily be replaced.

So if some group did buy all the firearms and ammo made for 10 years, there would still be a plentiful supply of these items in our society.

Some feel that the logical solution is to ban all civilian ownership of firearms but most rational people admit that this is politically impossible at this time in our nation.

I am in no way attempting to discourage you from coming up with ideas to reduce gun violence. We need to have a fair and honest discussion on the issue of gun violence in our nation and in any such discussion "brainstorming" is a valid approach.

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Response to spin (Reply #8)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:17 PM

9. People thought smallpox wouldn't be eradicated either, til it was.

 

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #9)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:59 PM

13. There wasn't much ongoing demand for smallpox.

Just sayin'

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Response to kudzu22 (Reply #13)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:01 PM

14. some day, there won't be any demand for bullets either.

 

Because everyone should own their own bunker busting bomb under the logic of the NRA.
Or shoulder missle thingys.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #14)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:05 PM

15. Give me a phaser with a good heavy stun setting

and I'm right there with ya.

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Response to kudzu22 (Reply #15)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:16 PM

16. Give me Janet Reno back, in 2017-2025. In Janet I trust.

 


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Response to graham4anything (Reply #16)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 08:20 AM

23. Some days....

So, what exactly is Janet going to do. I am curious how your statist mind really wants to deal with something YOU want banned and removed. Waht is your end game, you looking for a more final solution?

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Response to SQUEE (Reply #23)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 08:38 AM

25. Janet is a peace hero. Nobody died by her hand during her watch.She was the best.

 

but Remember, nobody died on Janet's watch.

some people committed suicide and took others with them after they inflicted mortal wounds from guns and bullets, but nobody died on her watch by her hand or command.

A true legendary pioneer in woman's rights.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #25)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 09:08 AM

27. I notice you didn't answer my question..

Thats probably because you cant get beyond your ideas of worship of authority and the power they wield. You are smitten by "great"people, maybe she can get on the cover of Time with VP Biden, cuz we all know that is the mark of greatness...
Wait, a Biden,Reno And Blumie cover......
O
M
G
AWESOME!!!
Peace hero?
I have a few quibbles on Waco, mostly on the initial contact, and initial entry.
but that was more procedural, and well below her purview, and it was handled once in her lap.

but this one???



BUT I digress, what is your true end game, we both know people will not just willingly give up their rights.. how far do you want this to go, are you willing to break a few eggs to get what you think is right, or more likely what your idols claim is right.

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Response to SQUEE (Reply #27)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 10:59 AM

29. nobody died on Janet's watch

 

waco was rightwing extremists stockpiling guns to do who knows what who killed federal agents
then blew themselves up in either an accident or mass suicide

Janet watched helplessly as the extremists did that.

common thing to do when the police are at the door is to raise ones hands and surrender

and the interesting thing is how Koresh was not the problem, but the others were the problem and voila, look what they did

they killed themselves.

Then that rightwing extremist killed 19 babies at Oklahoma City for no reason at all, plus adults.

People to idolize? Hell no.

The only way to get rid of guns is to put a ring around it as I said. Like a flu, panademic.
Get the entry point blocked, and the germs cannot take hold

guns are a terroristic item
the easiest way would be to re- classify the nra as a terror org
then cut off all the money
and keep track of who is trying to deal with the terrorists

why the NRA is tax free I don't know. And they should be liable for every single death in a civil suit. IMHO

again, in NJ at the bed bath beyond, a man stabbed on woman and was arrested, and she lived
If he had a gun/guns 1000s could have died.
Guns kill and people cannot escape them

other weapons you can escape

If everyone packed ping pong balls, the world would be a better place

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #29)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 11:41 AM

31. i am just gonna walk after this last attempt.

I don't believe I have ever met someone as stricken with the cult of personality as you.
We share a cultural bond and I feel I must, as mitzvah, ask you to examine your placing of people on pedestals.
You fawn over a complete 1% control freak and excuse his use of money and PACS to control the people, Your avatar is of the most crass, and vulgar man to occupy the Oval Office in a century. A man that chose guns over butter and lied about the Tonkin Resolution, for the sake of a war we need not fight.
You seem to believe the ends justify the means, and to be safe you will turn over your will to your "betters".
Beware hunting monsters, lest you become one.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #9)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 01:26 AM

18. Firearms are used for many legitimate purposes. Name a good reason for the existence of smallpox ...

except for the fact that it limited human population and consequently our effects on the environment.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:21 PM

10. There will be one more...

if someone wants to buy all of them out.. I'll file the paper work tomorrow.






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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:41 PM

12. There is a limit to the amount of ammo that can be manufactured in a year.

It is based on the speed at which the ammo can be manufactured and the number of machines and people doing it.

The shortage in ammo available to civilians is due mainly to the ammo makers dedicating the majority of their capacity to feeding the military contracts for the last ten years.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:55 PM

17. As far as firearms go, ATF says there are about 5400 licensed manufacturers in the US

Many of them only make a handful, but the big companies make a lot - you can see the whole list as of 2009 here.

Don't know about bullets...

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 04:08 AM

19. with a change in the law, a little tweak here or there...

 

even if the tweak is only to stop international shipments
and maybe that is somehow possible

it is theoretically possible to put a ring around the whole industry

it would be akin to grandfathering in for now, all existing, but well, sorry, end of story would be no future legalally manufactured.

then one can go and rid the infestation of the grandfathered in.

hmmm
one ringydingy to mike
two ringydingy to mike

(and don't forget, it's not just mike. He has other donees to the funds and it could be continuous

If they can stop guns at the international borders, why not stop bullets and guns at the state borders.
Surely they can also tweak postal rules(as the gov't runs the post office and can limit private shippers

and if somehow a new law can make it ok to keep guns from crossing certain state borders
it theoretically can do something

For the street criminals, it will change their habit if there are then more harsher laws.

For the status seekers, thrill seekers it will push them to find another status item

Most people do not want to be in jail for decades I would think

You can easily with funding solve the problems in neighborhoods and those problems are not as worrysome crimewise anyhow, as the mass shooter is.

All it takes is a little funding, a little looking outside the box, and a few tweaks of the law here, a few new interpretations of the law there, a new law or two
and voila

like smallpox, we can put a major ring around it and someday file it CURED.

I wonder if guns have killed more people in the USA history, than smallpox.
And nobody wants small pox to be around.
Small pox kills.
But so do guns.

Both are epidemics.
one eradicated, but one is vigilant so it never comes back
one needs to be.

imho feel free to disagree.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 05:49 AM

20. Largest Gun manufacturer For Sale Right Now

January 19, 2013 12:00 am • By BLOOMBERG NEWS0
Loading…Cerberus Capital Management LP has struggled to find investment banks to help sell Freedom Group Inc., the gun company whose rifle was used in the shooting spree in Newtown, Conn., said people with knowledge of the matter.
Banks including JPMorgan Chase & Co., Credit Suisse Group AG and Barclays Plc declined to advise New York-based private-equity firm Cerberus on the sale and also won’t represent a potential buyer, said the people, who asked not to be identified because the process is private. Many of the banks were concerned about potential damage to their reputations, the people said.

Cerberus is getting help from Lazard Ltd. on the sale, several of the people said.

It’s a rarity on Wall Street for so many banks to eschew an assignment, especially one potentially worth millions of dollars in fees. Freedom Group could fetch as much as $1 billion, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

With President Barack Obama pushing for tougher firearm-control laws and the debate polarizing the public, most banks are lying low, according to Douglas Elliott, a fellow at the Brookings Institute in Washington, which does research on U.S. public policy.

“Good investment banks will stay away from transactions where the company or management is not reputable,” said Elliott, a former investment banker. “It’s pretty rare that they will stay away because the public doesn’t like the industry.”

At least one bank willing to work with Cerberus on the sale of Freedom Group is Lazard, said several people familiar with the matter. Lazard doesn’t have a mandate or contract to sell the business yet, one of the people said.

Cerberus also tried to hire a second, larger bank as an adviser but was rebuffed, said these people. Larger banks are often needed in auction processes to help finance deals.

Cerberus may have to take a lower price or be unable to sell the business because so many banks are unwilling to work on the deal, said one of the people with knowledge of the matter.

Freedom Group, a gunmaker ripe for an ethical takeover
By John MacIntosh , Special to CNN
updated 10:16 PM EST, Thu December 27, 2012 CNN.com

John MacIntosh was a partner at Warburg Pincus, a leading global private equity firm, where he worked from 1994 to 2006 in New York, Tokyo and London. He now runs a nonprofit in New York.

(CNN) -- In the 1970s and '80s, when corporate America was plagued with inefficiency, a new class of financially motivated takeover investors emerged to prey on the fattest in the corporate herd and scare the rest into line.

Today, as pockets of corporate America are plagued with immorality, we need a new class of socially motivated takeover investor to prey on the sociopaths in the corporate herd, turn them around and perhaps scare (or shame) others into line.

The upcoming sale by Cerberus Capital of the Freedom Group, the largest gun manufacturer in the United States, is a perfect opportunity to usher in this new era of muscular, socially responsible capitalism:

First, Michael Bloomberg, George Soros, David Geffen and the like should establish a nonprofit SPAC (Special-Purpose-Acquisition-Company) called BidForFreedom.org (BFF) with a mission to reduce needless deaths through gun violence in the United States and encourage the passage of sensible gun control regulations.

They should appoint George Clooney, Angelina Jolie and Matt Damon to the fundraising committee and recruit a loud-mouthed, poison-penned, but good-hearted activist hedge fund titan as chief investment officer (Bill Ackman? Dan Loeb?).

Opinion: Forgotten victims of gun violence

To be credible, BFF will probably need to start with at least $250 million in cash and commitments (no problem given the billionaire status of the sponsors) with additional firepower raised as needed from well-heeled individuals, foundations and through a broad-based Internet solicitation to an outraged-by-Newtown public.

Second, BFF should lobby all public pension funds that are part owners of the Freedom Group (by virtue of their investment in Cerberus) to roll their investment into BFF to reduce the need for outside funding, naming and shaming any unwilling public investors.

Newtown shooter's guns

Can't 'legislate against evil'Miller: Buy guns, boost economyFiery debate over guns in AmericaThird, BFF should pay "whatever it takes" to acquire control of the Freedom Group in the upcoming auction by Cerberus (which has a fiduciary obligation to sell to the highest bidder) and then immediately implement a "moral turnaround" plan under which the Freedom Group:

(i) Appoints a high-profile CEO with impeccable credentials as a hunter and/or marksman who is nevertheless in favor of gun-control.

Opinion: Guns endanger more than they protect

(ii) Elects a new board of directors including representatives from the families of victims killed in Newtown (and/or other massacres perpetrated with Freedom Group weapons), military veterans and trauma surgeons with real experience of human-on-human gunfire, and law enforcement and mental health professionals.

(iii) Operates the business as if sensible gun laws were in place (this may turn out to be a wise investment in future-proofing the company): discontinuing sales of the most egregious assault weapons and modifying others as necessary so they cannot take huge-volume clips; offering to buy back all Freedom Group assault weapons in circulation; micro-stamping weapons for easy tracking; and providing price discounts for buyers willing to go through a background check and register in a database available to law enforcement.

(iv) Voluntarily waives its rights to support the NRA and other lobbying groups.

(v) Creates a fund to compensate those who, despite its best efforts, are killed or wounded by its weapons.

(vi) Agrees that if the effort to provide moral leadership in the weapons industry doesn't succeed within a year, BFF should consider corporate euthanasia, even though it entails a risk of allowing more retrograde manufacturers to fill the void in the market left by the then-deceased company.

Opinion: The case for gun rights is stronger than you think

In the face of horrors like Newtown, BFF would recognize that it's time to take a stand by acknowledging the impossibility of reaching closure after such a monstrous act while an unreconstructed Freedom Group continues to sell a huge volume of guns and ammunition rounds each year even if it is operating under new owners.

Like any Trojan Horse strategy, this is a long shot, but it must be tried. History suggests that only after the first company "turns" will an industry gradually return to the realm of the human (think of big tobacco). And without the tacit agreement, if not the outright support, of at least one important insider, policymakers seem utterly unable to pass tough regulations in the face of the predictable but withering assault by industry lackeys shrieking that any such regulation would be "impossible, impractical or too expensive."

In the face of a recalcitrant industry, we have to acknowledge that it is only the market for corporate control -- the real possibility that an outsider will take over one of the companies -- that puts limits on the behavior of board members and executives who, while perhaps decent enough in their family lives, display a limitless tolerance for the "banality of evil" at the office.

Opinion: Not man enough? Buy a gun

We must accept that the conventional, kid-gloves approach to socially responsible investing -- divesting shares in "bad" companies that nevertheless continue to exist -- is too weak an instrument to force change and its well-meaning practitioners too soft to enter the fray when emotionally and politically charged battles need to be fought.

And regardless of the viability of socially motivated takeovers in general, the Freedom Group looks like a great target. Cerberus is a motivated seller, the political macros look favorable, and it's a bite-sized company compared with many of the larger sociopaths in the corporate herd.

I'm even cautiously optimistic that the current impasse over gun regulation is a bad-equilibrium that few consumers actually want, and that a reconstructed Freedom Group, fighting for sensible change as a fifth column from within the industry, might well find that many people -- even a significant portion of the NRA's members -- would buy from a truly responsible (and high quality) gunmaker if given the chance.

All in all, it's a pretty exciting deal, so if Mike and George are up for it, count me in.

Follow

Join us at

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of John MacIntosh.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 06:56 AM

21. He'd have to meet demand or other companies would open up

and start taking market share...or pretty soon he'd have a bunch of worthless companies.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 07:51 AM

22. Mike can turn gun plants, store, into Actual NY Pizza and Bagels and NYC Bottled Water

 

and all gun shops and turn them into a nationwide

ACTUAL New York Bagels and Pizza.
(not NY Style, but actual NYC Pizza and Bagels and for drink, NYC water.
The three best in the world.

instead of selling guns and ammo
all the same workers/owners can sell slices and pies and bagels

win/win for all of America

and just have the SCOTUS reinterpret the 2nd to
the right to have NY Pizza nationwide.
(where you don't need any toppings, but if you choose you can have them)

Just make guns and bullets obsolete

And allow the right to carry a slice of NYC pizza anywhere in the nation.
No borders.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #22)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 08:25 AM

24. Sure this will get me flamed..

But I much prefer Chicage, I dont like a floppy pie, I'm sure people that need those big flashy slices are just compensating anyway.
We must ban NY Style pizza, do it for the children. or at least limit it to 7 toppings, and no assault style cheeses or afterprep dried pepper or parmesan.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 08:40 AM

26. too many! they wouldn't be selling extraneous military weapons to the public if there was no $$$

i was thinking the same thing-
bloomie could definitely do it- he's given $1 billion to charity, he's worth $25 BILLION...
he could just sell them to the army, etc. for training at a loss to recoup some $.

i ended up with-
he should start by buying up all the potentially 'criminal' guns-
1. buy out armslist, block them from getting more (based in OOOOOOKLAHOMA- where the bullets whistle down the plains....)
2. every newspaper classified ad in the USA- buy 'em up, melt 'em down!
3. sponsor more buybacks- they're getting more popular every day


***

Years ago I even met Mikhail Kalashnikov at this show, the Russian inventor of the famed AK-47. When asked what he thought of the show, he said with his laborious Russian accent, “It is good to see all the capitalists marketing their products.” He was there to merchandise with all the capitalists. He had official Kalashnikov coffee cups and t-shirts to market.

-skip

This $4.1 billion industry “has had nineteen months of growth in an otherwise anemic economy,” boasts Sanetti. “We’re grateful and proud that our industry has helped maintain jobs from the manufacturer through retail levels during these difficult economic times.”
http://www.forbes.com/sites/frankminiter/2012/01/18/why-u-s-gun-sales-are-shooting-for-the-moon/

***

Altogether, gunmakers manufactured about 5.5 million firearms in the US in 2010, a drop of less than 1 percent over 2009, according to the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives. That is on the heels of a 29 percent rise in production in 2009 (mostly pistols), however.

Of that 2010 production, some 242,000 firearms were exported, while an additional 3.25 million were imported from other countries.
http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/2013/0103/A-look-at-America-s-gun-industry

***

“But I also share your belief that weapons that were designed for soldiers in war theaters don’t belong on our streets. And so what I’m trying to do is to get a broader conversation about how do we reduce the violence generally. Part of it is seeing if we can get an assault weapons ban reintroduced, but part of it is also looking at other sources of the violence, because frankly, in my hometown of Chicago, there’s an awful lot of violence, and they’re not using AK-47s, they’re using cheap handguns.”

That’s sounds mild and logical to me, but the N.R.A. took it as a shot across the bow. They started running ads in swing states that said, “Defend freedom, defeat Obama.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/29/opinion/blow-the-gun-frenzy.html

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 09:11 AM

28. Why doesn't he buy all the coca fields in Columbia and the poppy fields in Afghanistan?

That would solve a lot more problems.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #28)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 11:01 AM

30. no it wouldn't. You would still have the guns. The NRA stale soundbyte shifting to something else is

 

repudiated.

no need to waste bandwidth going through that.

Just like the inane, this is not this gun but another

that is why I don't care what gun
they are all WMDs.

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