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Wed Jan 30, 2013, 07:31 PM

 

Teen in Sweden jailed eight years for honour killing

http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/teen-in-sweden-jailed-eight-years-for-honour-killing-323857

Stockholm: A Swedish court on Tuesday sentenced a 17-year-old man to eight years in prison for stabbing his sister 107 times in what judges called an honour killing.

The teen, who was 16 at the time, was convicted of killing his 19-year-old sister at her home in the southwestern town of Landskrona on April 23 last year.

He had called emergency services and said a masked attacker had killed her, but investigators said his story didn't hold up against evidence found at the scene.

"The court found the man guilty of the murder and that the motive was to restore the family's honour," the Lund district court said in a statement.

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Reply Teen in Sweden jailed eight years for honour killing (Original post)
zellie Jan 2013 OP
zellie Jan 2013 #1
amandabeech Jan 2013 #2
zellie Jan 2013 #3
amandabeech Jan 2013 #5
zellie Jan 2013 #7
amandabeech Jan 2013 #8
a la izquierda Jan 2013 #9
Scurrilous Jan 2013 #13
a la izquierda Jan 2013 #14
a la izquierda Jan 2013 #16
WinkyDink Jan 2013 #4
smirkymonkey Jan 2013 #6
freethought Jan 2013 #10
smirkymonkey Jan 2013 #17
JI7 Jan 2013 #21
freethought Jan 2013 #22
smirkymonkey Jan 2013 #25
pampango Jan 2013 #30
Fla_Democrat Jan 2013 #11
dairydog91 Jan 2013 #12
Comrade Grumpy Jan 2013 #19
Matariki Jan 2013 #15
smirkymonkey Jan 2013 #26
Gidney N Cloyd Jan 2013 #34
mia Jan 2013 #18
Comrade Grumpy Jan 2013 #20
AverageJoe90 Jan 2013 #23
pampango Jan 2013 #27
muriel_volestrangler Jan 2013 #29
pampango Jan 2013 #31
AverageJoe90 Jan 2013 #32
Art_from_Ark Jan 2013 #24
muriel_volestrangler Jan 2013 #28
smirkymonkey Jan 2013 #33

Response to zellie (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 07:43 PM

1. So the going rate in Sweden ...

 

is 1 year for every 13.375 stabs of your sister.

What the hell happened to that country ?

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Response to zellie (Reply #1)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 07:56 PM

2. The article states that the victim was a refuge from Iraq.

She may have been forced into a marriage there, and escaped to Sweden. She told the local social service people that her life was in danger but they didn't take her seriously.

It's not clear whether the rest of her family lives in Iraq or in Sweden.

I'm partially of Swedish ancestry myself and I have visited the country. Sweden has taken in many, many middle-eastern refugees, and according to some reports, things are not working out well. The cultures are very different, particularly with respect to the treatment of women.


I've seen news stories that state that many of the refugee men and their sons do not respect Swedish laws, and commit the majority of rapes in Sweden even though they are 10-15% of the population. There are also reports that areas of Malmo, the third largest Swedish city, are no-go areas for police, fire and EMS because the refugees who live in those areas pummel the service providers with rocks and sometimes molotov cocktails.

Other Swedes completely deny that there is any problem.

Someone here recently started a thread that said that assimilation must not be mentioned in the upcoming immigration debate.

I say that anyone coming into a new country must abide by the laws of their new country, and in Sweden, rape is a major crime.

I'm afraid that Swedes will keep quiet for a long time about this, but eventually something will happen and people will get hurt.

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Response to amandabeech (Reply #2)


Response to zellie (Reply #3)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 08:35 PM

5. I'm not sure where you're coming from.

Are you criticizing ethnic Swedes or the refugees?

If you know what's going on there, then why did you construct your original post the way you did?

If you can offer a straight-forward reply, then please do.

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Response to amandabeech (Reply #5)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 08:46 PM

7. Nothing wrong with the swedes .

 

The answer should be obvious.

Thanks.

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Response to zellie (Reply #7)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 08:47 PM

8. I see that you post frequently in the I/P forum.

I suggest that you bring up this topic there.

Good day.

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Response to zellie (Reply #7)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 08:54 PM

9. Treading a fine line there...

A really shitty fine line that shouldn't be acceptable here.

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Response to a la izquierda (Reply #9)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 09:10 PM

13. It wasn't tolerated his last time through.

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Response to Scurrilous (Reply #13)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 09:11 PM

14. Classy.

Ugh, I don't have patience for this nonsense

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Response to Scurrilous (Reply #13)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 09:34 PM

16. And I alerted and it stood...

Never mind, I'll take it up in meta

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Response to zellie (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 08:20 PM

4. Wow! He's lucky he didn't get NINE years!!

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Response to zellie (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 08:36 PM

6. WTF? This is Sweden?

How can this be happening in that country?

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Response to smirkymonkey (Reply #6)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 09:05 PM

10. Sweden has had a number of these

honor killings in recent years. Sweden has a relatively liberal immigration policy. Most of these immigrants are from the middle east and central Asia, and are largely Muslim. Culturally, these immigrants are seen as being from another planet. They are not mixing too well with native Swedes. The social norms of the immigrants and native population a nearly as polar opposite as you can get. Some native Swedes are actually resentful of the new immigrants, which, as I understand it, has fueled a rightward shift in Swedish politics.

It's in cases like this where the values and norms of these cultures clash. This case will likely not be the last. It does not surprise me that the girl fled to Sweden or that the family sent a brother to kill her.

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Response to freethought (Reply #10)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:24 PM

17. Shocking. I always thought Sweden the most liberal of

all countries. For them to have such a reactionary element in their country is truly depressing. Is there no place left that is left that is truly liberal anymore?

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Response to smirkymonkey (Reply #17)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:43 PM

21. Sweden is liberal, these are mostly immigrants, not those raised in sweden

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Response to smirkymonkey (Reply #17)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 12:23 AM

22. Swedes still hold fast to their liberal/social values

A good friend was in Stokholm on an academic conference. He said once you get there, you can feel that the country is different. The Swedes don't like big inequalities. And not only in income but in other ways as well. Many of these Muslim families have come from places where educating girls is forbidden. There has a been an effort by the government to make sure these girls get to school and get an education whether the parents want it or not. Try to keep a young girl from getting educated and Swedish authorities may show up at your door.

I'm sure there are other issues that clash as well. Roles of women, attitudes toward sex, and a widespread secularism among the native Swedes are just a few.

Beyond those, most of these immigrants don't bring much to the economic table. Typically it's the men that work outside the house but they don't have marketable skills to obtain jobs. What usually happens is they wind up going straight to welfare. This breeds further resentment from native Swedes who pay the taxes. It's too bad as well, the Scandinavian countries like Sweden and Norway have undergone economic booms while several of their southern neighbors are struggling with depression-like unemployment and austerity.

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Response to freethought (Reply #22)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 12:45 AM

25. I can see why the Scandinvians would be resentful.

Seems like a major violation of their culture.

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Response to freethought (Reply #10)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 06:59 AM

30. "Sweden has a relatively liberal immigration policy." Indeed.

...in 2010, there were 1.33 million foreign-born residents in Sweden, corresponding to 14.3% of the total population. Of these, 859,000 (9.2%) were born outside the EU and 477,000 (5.1%) were born in another EU Member State.

The largest groups were:

Finland (166,723)
Former Yugoslavia (155,166)
Iraq (125,499)
Iran (63,828)
Poland (49,518)
Germany (48,442)
Denmark (44,951)
Turkey (43,909)
Norway (43,058)
Somalia (40,165)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Sweden#Migration

In the US foreign-born residents represent a little under 12% of our population.

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Response to zellie (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 09:08 PM

11. Wouldn't it have been more honourable to just fess up?

I mean, if it's about honour.. where's that is letting some masked attacker get the credit, er take the blame?




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Response to zellie (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 09:10 PM

12. Because shanking your sister says such good things about your family's reputation!

I know that where I live, butchering your own family members is a surefire way to be the family that everyone else emulates.

The court meanwhile refused to pay damages to the victim's mother and a half-sister born to the same father, arguing the relatives did not have a close relationship with the deceased.
Ummmmmm...

The lawyer for the convicted teen called the sentence "extremely harsh" and said he planned to appeal.
The defendant should be sentenced to a lifetime job of "soap picker-upper" in an American prison.

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Response to dairydog91 (Reply #12)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:38 PM

19. Are you advocating for prison rape here? Really?

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Response to zellie (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 09:12 PM

15. I will never understand how someone comes to the conclusion that sex is 'less honorable' than MURDER

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Response to Matariki (Reply #15)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 06:39 AM

26. +10.000

Seriously.

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Response to Matariki (Reply #15)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 09:57 PM

34. Agreed, but I think the "dishonor" here is about her running out on an arranged marriage, isn't it?

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Response to zellie (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:27 PM

18. Should have gotten "Life".

No excuse.

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Response to zellie (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:39 PM

20. The sentence seems short, maybe youth was a mitigating factor.

On the other hand, US sentencing policies seem insanely harsh to many other countries. Their country, their laws.

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Response to zellie (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 12:29 AM

23. Eight years? This fucker should have gotten EIGHTY.

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #23)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 06:40 AM

27. Imprisonment for revenge or rehabilitation? Countries like Sweden seem to focus on the latter

when it comes to incarcerating people. That may be right or wrong but it seems to be the "Swedish" way of doing things.

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Response to pampango (Reply #27)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 06:56 AM

29. Thinking you can rehabilitate a 17 year old who brutally murders his sister in 8 years

due to having been brainwashed for 16 years into what 'honour' is in his culture is overly optimistic, if you ask me. Especially since he denied the whole thing at first, which clearly shows he knows it was actually wrong, but that lying might get him off punishment. You can't just say "we'll wait until he says he knows it was wrong and won't do it again".

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #29)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 07:35 AM

31. It tend to agree that rehablilitation may be 'overly optimistic', but that's Sweden for you. n/t

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Response to pampango (Reply #27)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 12:01 PM

32. You're right about that.

Normally, I'd applaud that, in most case, but I think most of us would take an exception to this particular incident.....

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Response to zellie (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 12:37 AM

24. The word "honour" should be in quotations

since there is no honour in stabbing one's sister, especially 107 times

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Response to zellie (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 06:52 AM

28. Defence lawyer calls the 8 years "incredibly harsh"; would have been 4 if tried as a 16 year old

The boy, who was 16 at the time of the attack, killed his 19-year-old sister in her apartment in Landskrona.

"This is an incredibly harsh sentence. My client is in shock," the teen's defence lawyer, Urban Jansson, told the TT news agency.
...
As the boy was only days away from his 17th birthday at the time of the attack, the judge decided to punish him as a 17-year-old rather than as a 16-year-old, altering the sentence therefore from four years to eight years in prison.
...
The sister had previously claimed she was forcibly married off at age 15 and raped.

http://www.thelocal.se/45882/20130129/#.UQpZOsXp8_g


I'd love a Swedish perspective on this. By coincidence, the Borgen TV drama, set in Danish politics, had a plotline a couple of weeks ago about the criminal age of responsibility in Denmark. The far right party wanted to reduced it from 16 to 14, and gave, among their reasoning, "it's only 12 in Britain", while the moderate party (the 'heroes' of the programme - the far right leader is stereotypically ugly and creepy) wanted to keep it at 16 to 'preserve our children's innocence'. Maybe Scandinavians really do believe people at 15 or 16 really can't tell that murder is wrong. I can't see that myself; I think they can be extremely vicious, and know exactly what they're doing.

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Response to zellie (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 09:13 PM

33. Only 8 years for MURDER? WTF?

This is sick. I'm sorry, but something is extremely f***ed up about this case. This little bastard should get life in prison.

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