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Wed Jan 30, 2013, 07:26 PM

good reason not to buy a BMW

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/01/billions-in-blood-money-enjoyed-by-war-criminals-families.html

While you might not see them on Forbes’ list of wealthy people, criminals and their beneficiaries are some of the richest people on the planet.

For example, Nazi propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels’ heirs are billionaires who own half of BMW. They are also closely connected with Daimler. Four of Goebbels’ step-grandchildren are worth $1.2 billion each, according to an investigation by Bloomberg. Much of their wealth came from slave labor at German concentration camps.

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Arrow 107 replies Author Time Post
Reply good reason not to buy a BMW (Original post)
gejohnston Jan 2013 OP
Cooley Hurd Jan 2013 #1
MAD Dave Jan 2013 #2
Bake Jan 2013 #12
MightyMopar Jan 2013 #17
EOTE Jan 2013 #92
kentauros Jan 2013 #25
Bake Jan 2013 #75
kentauros Jan 2013 #77
Bake Jan 2013 #83
kentauros Jan 2013 #85
nadinbrzezinski Jan 2013 #81
Bake Jan 2013 #84
nadinbrzezinski Jan 2013 #86
Bake Jan 2013 #88
kentauros Jan 2013 #89
nadinbrzezinski Jan 2013 #96
actslikeacarrot Jan 2013 #74
harmonicon Jan 2013 #29
SailorMike Jan 2013 #34
DainBramaged Jan 2013 #36
SailorMike Jan 2013 #37
DainBramaged Jan 2013 #38
coalition_unwilling Jan 2013 #51
countingbluecars Jan 2013 #76
pampango Jan 2013 #67
DainBramaged Jan 2013 #71
pampango Jan 2013 #72
coalition_unwilling Jan 2013 #53
TheDebbieDee Jan 2013 #62
Democracyinkind Jan 2013 #63
DainBramaged Jan 2013 #78
snooper2 Jan 2013 #95
Fumesucker Jan 2013 #3
Cooley Hurd Jan 2013 #8
Fumesucker Jan 2013 #9
Berserker Jan 2013 #14
Fumesucker Jan 2013 #15
Xithras Jan 2013 #87
MightyMopar Jan 2013 #105
Xithras Feb 2013 #106
Spider Jerusalem Jan 2013 #4
Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #24
tblue Jan 2013 #5
Glassunion Jan 2013 #6
gejohnston Jan 2013 #11
Glassunion Jan 2013 #48
malaise Jan 2013 #66
Glassunion Jan 2013 #68
RedCappedBandit Jan 2013 #7
dballance Jan 2013 #28
Art_from_Ark Jan 2013 #101
Glassunion Jan 2013 #102
Art_from_Ark Jan 2013 #103
Glassunion Jan 2013 #104
Raine Jan 2013 #10
rickyhall Jan 2013 #32
Brother Buzz Jan 2013 #60
Berserker Jan 2013 #13
ErikJ Jan 2013 #16
Robb Jan 2013 #18
jberryhill Jan 2013 #19
SCVDem Jan 2013 #20
Ed Suspicious Jan 2013 #21
UTUSN Jan 2013 #22
gejohnston Jan 2013 #43
UTUSN Jan 2013 #98
HooptieWagon Jan 2013 #23
Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #26
harmonicon Jan 2013 #27
coalition_unwilling Jan 2013 #52
harmonicon Jan 2013 #56
kentauros Jan 2013 #30
SailorMike Jan 2013 #33
kentauros Jan 2013 #35
Luminous Animal Jan 2013 #41
kentauros Jan 2013 #42
Fumesucker Jan 2013 #45
kentauros Jan 2013 #46
nadinbrzezinski Jan 2013 #97
kentauros Jan 2013 #99
davidpdx Jan 2013 #31
no_hypocrisy Jan 2013 #39
oldhippie Jan 2013 #40
sad-cafe Jan 2013 #44
harmonicon Jan 2013 #58
Glassunion Jan 2013 #65
Flying Squirrel Jan 2013 #47
coalition_unwilling Jan 2013 #54
DinahMoeHum Jan 2013 #70
Manifestor_of_Light Jan 2013 #49
Manifestor_of_Light Jan 2013 #50
Nabbysensei Jan 2013 #55
harmonicon Jan 2013 #59
leveymg Jan 2013 #57
Glassunion Jan 2013 #61
Democracyinkind Jan 2013 #64
kentauros Jan 2013 #79
unhappycamper Jan 2013 #69
tk2kewl Jan 2013 #73
gejohnston Jan 2013 #93
tk2kewl Jan 2013 #94
Freddie Stubbs Jan 2013 #80
Taverner Jan 2013 #82
datasuspect Jan 2013 #90
Demo_Chris Jan 2013 #91
Glassunion Jan 2013 #100
flvegan Feb 2013 #107

Response to gejohnston (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 07:33 PM

1. They're luckier than Joe and Magda's (natural) kids...

It must suck to be murdered by your own mother in a dank bunker with HITLER in the next room.

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Response to gejohnston (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 07:37 PM

2. This should come as no surprise.

Most of the pre war industries were tied to the Nazi party in some fashion.

I personally would not buy a Mercedes or BMW product due to cost. They have similar 4 wheels, engines and controls to other less expensive possibly North American made vehicles.

This would be another reason not to buy.

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Response to MAD Dave (Reply #2)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 08:51 PM

12. There's a reason they call BMW the "ultimate driving machine."

They drive like nothing else.

Just my $0.02.

Bake

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Response to Bake (Reply #12)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 09:13 PM

17. New Cadillac ATS is very competitive with BMW 3 series

 

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Response to MightyMopar (Reply #17)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 05:23 PM

92. Cool car and I agree.

Did you happen to get the 2.0T? It seems like that's the most tuner friendly of all available engines. And BMWs are overrated. Of course they handle well and have very smooth engines, but that's expected in the luxury class. I bought a used Lincoln LS with the V6/6 speed combo about a decade ago and it handled just as well as any 5 series available at the time for a fraction of the cost.

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Response to Bake (Reply #12)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 09:49 PM

25. The big problem though,

is that the owners don't seem to realize they have a performance vehicle. And the car companies sure do waste a lot of advertising money giving them a driving fantasy you probably could not even pay those same owners to attempt

They bought it for the badge, not the thrill of driving.

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Response to kentauros (Reply #25)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 12:55 PM

75. Mine is a 2000 323i.

It performs!

Bake

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Response to Bake (Reply #75)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 01:07 PM

77. That's lighter than my Civic!



(I think it's rated at 2600, at least according to my state's vehicle-registration sheet.)
It rolls in the curves a bit too much for me, but that may just mean I need to replace my shocks, too. It's a 2004 and they haven't been replaced yet. Probably from taking railroad track crossings at posted speeds

The best car I've ever driven was my father's 1964 MGB. It had no problems with the curves, even bumpy ones. The 2nd gear synchro was worn out, though, so you had to double-clutch to downshift from 3rd. I got pretty good at it with time

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Response to kentauros (Reply #77)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 01:23 PM

83. Honestly, as soon as I got behind the wheel of the BMW and got out on the road

It had me. I was an instant fan. I love the way it drives.

Now, getting repairs ... they say "BMW" means Bring Money With you. Repairs are expensive.

But damn I love driving this car.

Bake

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Response to Bake (Reply #83)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 01:29 PM

85. As with any car, find a good mechanic or shop

and stick with them. When I had VWs, I took them to a place that only does VWs. My last VW just wasn't fixable without practically overhauling the engine (an 88 Jetta, and it seemed to be a lemon, totally unlike my 88 Fox Wagon, which I still miss.)

So, the repair costs are still worth having the car you love, no matter what brand it is

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Response to Bake (Reply #75)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 01:20 PM

81. Mom's is a 1984 325i. That car has been babied and it performs.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #81)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 01:27 PM

84. I love my 3-series.

It just flat-out drives. Quick, nimble, effortless.

Getting repairs? Yeah, I'm not so crazy about that, they are expensive. But other than my 1997 Supra which ran like a bat outta hell (holy crap, I miss that car!! 155 mph and it wasn't even breathing heavy! At 3-digit speeds, if you punched it, it would still snap your head back!), this is best driving car I've ever had.

Did I mention that I miss the Supra? We got rid of her because my son was turning 16 and I didn't want him to kill himself in a car that fast ... he now calls the Supra "she whose name shall not be mentioned."

Bake

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Response to Bake (Reply #84)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 01:30 PM

86. We got a jeep

Car is going back to sis. As to maintenance, we found a very reliable local mechanic. That cuts the cost.

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Response to kentauros (Reply #25)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 01:36 PM

88. Hehe. I have attempted it. And will do so again!

The car has no problems with it and in fact LOVES it!

Kinda like the '97 Supra I used to have ... that car was built to haul @ss, so I liked to get out on the interstate and let the ponies RUN! Wowzer! They could run like a mofo!!

Yes, I admit, I do OCCASIONALLY disregard some laws like, oh, SPEED LIMITS! So shoot me! Speed limits are for people driving LTDs and Bonnevilles and Hyundais and such ...

Bake

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Response to Bake (Reply #88)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 01:42 PM

89. While you're not in the monority for disobeying speed limits

(I do to, within reason) you're also not in the majority when it comes to driving skill or a desire to drive. That is, you're not one of the tens of millions of Motor Vehicle Operators.

That's really all the majority of "drivers" are. They'll never attempt to have a little fun with their vehicle, other than maybe going fast in a straight line, as that takes almost no skill at all. Just learn to be calm when you're stuck behind them on a reducing-radius cloverleaf as they stubbornly go the posted speed of 35mph!

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Response to kentauros (Reply #89)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 05:50 PM

96. I am trained. (EMS driving)

The car, sure...the jeep, I woud have to be certifiable.



They got a roll over warning for good reason.



So you drive accordingly.

Yup, I am the fool going at the posted speed limit with a muddy underside.

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Response to Bake (Reply #12)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 10:53 AM

74. meh. ive driven one.

Great machine, but still wouldn't drop the cash for it.

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Response to MAD Dave (Reply #2)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:01 PM

29. A number of BMWs are made in the US. (nt)

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Response to harmonicon (Reply #29)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:40 PM

34. My BMW was built in South Carolina. nt

 

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Response to SailorMike (Reply #34)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:46 PM

36. The profits go to Germany, how Patriotic of you...

Assembled not built.

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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #36)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:56 PM

37. I believe those were AMERICAN workers assembling it though.

 

Yup.

And they probably spent those earnings locally.

You know, housing, groceries, meds, etc.

So yeah, I'm patriotic, I stimulated me some local economy.

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Response to SailorMike (Reply #37)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:01 PM

38. Yup, rationalisation, works for you......and the scabs assembling the foreign iron in right to work

for less states.


Those of you who think that makes it OK will never understand how you are undercutting the wages of skilled Union workers but what do you care....

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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #36)


Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #51)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 01:03 PM

76. So Japanese made cars are out too? n/t

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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #36)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 05:37 AM

67. The profits go to shareholders - 44.1% are German; 33.2% are American.

Shareholders structure

by ownership

Stefan Quandt: 17.4%
Johanna Quandt: 16.7%
Susanne Klatten: 12.6%
Free Float: 53.3%

by region

Strategic investors: 46.7%
North America: 15.8%
United Kingdom and Ireland: 11.8%
Other Europe: 5.7%
Germany: 4.8%
Rest of the world: 2.5%
Other investors: 12.7%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW#Shareholders_structure

Stefan Quandt is now an American citizen living in New York. 39.3% of BMW's stock is owned by family members who are German and an additional 4.8% is owned by other Germans.

Multinational corporations are not human beings and do not have a nationality. Their shareholders do.

The fact that BMW builds it US-made cars in a right-to-work state is a better reason to avoid them. Their German-built cars are 100% union-made. For some that may matter more than the location of the factory in which the cars are assembled.

How Germany Builds Twice as Many Cars as the U.S. While Paying Its Workers Twice as Much

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Response to pampango (Reply #67)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 07:46 AM

71. The fact that BMW builds it US-made cars in a right-to-work state is a better reason to avoid them.

the average auto worker in Germany made $67.14 per hour in salary in benefits; the average one in the U.S. made $33.77 per hour


All the more reason to avoid them........

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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #71)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 08:06 AM

72. Agreed. And right-to-work is something that we, as Americans, have foisted on ourselves.

More accurately 'our' republicans have foisted right-to-work on the rest of 'us' and now we can't get rid of it.

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Response to SailorMike (Reply #34)


Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #53)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 04:01 AM

62. To call someone a Nazi-sympathizer because they bought a

German-made car is a bit much, don't you think?

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Reply #62)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 04:13 AM

63. Considering that Ford did more for Hitler than the Quandts ever could have?


Ya think?

To live in the black and white world of the uninformed, the perpetually offended -

oh, what I'd give to live that life...

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Response to Democracyinkind (Reply #63)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 01:15 PM

78. the perpetually offended

Lot of that around here, a LOT of that.....

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Response to MAD Dave (Reply #2)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 05:38 PM

95. New 2014 Mercedes CLA starting at $29,900




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Response to gejohnston (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 07:39 PM

3. Henry Ford was a big supporter of the Nazis

Good reason not to buy a Ford, Lincoln or Mercury product, right?

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #3)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 08:14 PM

8. IBM, too..

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Reply #8)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 08:17 PM

9. Indeed n/t

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #3)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 09:00 PM

14. Henry Ford

 

Hated Jews and printed literature that was displayed in thousands of dealerships across America.

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Response to Berserker (Reply #14)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 09:03 PM

15. You ever have an OP not turn out quite the way you anticipated?

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #3)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 01:33 PM

87. And Chrysler is owned by Fiat.

Gotta wonder how many good Americans died at the business end of the war machines that poured out of Fiat's factories, as the did their part to aid the spread of fascism.

In fact, the Agnelli family, which still owns and controls much of Fiat (and by proxy, Chrysler) today, and is still one of the wealthiest families in Italy, had their control of Fiat stripped after WW2 because they were so closely connected to Mussolini that they were considered to be a threat to the nation. The American and Italian governments were so worried about them that they didn't want them to have access to any factories that might allow them to supply any sort of resistance that popped up. Wealth opens many doors, however, and that prohibition was lifted in 1966, allowing the family to take an active role in the company again.

Every Chrysler product you buy makes the Agnelli's a little bit richer.

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Response to Xithras (Reply #87)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 11:31 PM

105. Chrysler is also partly owned by the UAW and FIAT scion John Elkann is an American.

 

Ford and GM also made trucks in Nazi Germany. Even Subaru made weapons for Japan.

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Response to MightyMopar (Reply #105)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 01:13 AM

106. Elkann is Chairman, but the Agnelli's own a controlling interest in the company.

Elkann is chairman of the board. The board works for the shareholders. The Agnelli family is the largest single shareholder in the company, owning a third of it outright, and controlling a voting bloc that has effective control over the company.

In other words, Elkann works for the Agnelli's. Aren't corporations awesome?

And, for what it's worth, the remainder of your post simply supports the point I was indirectly trying to make. Boycotting ANY company over their role in a war that ended 67 years ago is stupid, because if you dig hard enough NOBODY is clean. I'm more concerned about what companies are doing TODAY than what they were doing in 1945.

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Response to gejohnston (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 07:40 PM

4. Good reason not to buy a Ford too then

considering Henry Ford and his pro-Nazi sympathies, anti-Semitism and Jew-baiting; "The Dearborn Independent" might as well have been "Der Stuermer", what with publishing the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and "The International Jew" and so on. Ford retained 52% ownership of factories in Germany after the start of the war. (Ford Motor Company maintains that they lost control of their German factories after the US entered the war in December of 1941; that's still over two years when Ford factories in Germany were producing for the Nazi war effort.)

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #4)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 09:49 PM

24. This is why my entire family has not owned a Ford since WW2.

Just how it is at our house.

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Response to gejohnston (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 07:41 PM

5. There is a lot of repentance among the offspring of Nazis.

I just watched two documentaries on this subject. Most of the ones in the films feel a tremendous burden and sense of regret. They want to make amends to those who suffered at the hands of their fathers.

That said, it would behoove everyone if the Goebbels' heirs spend a huge among of their inheritance making some kind of restitution or charitable donation.

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Response to gejohnston (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 07:44 PM

6. The sins of the father...

Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children and their children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation.

How far back do we want to go with atrocities?

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Response to Glassunion (Reply #6)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 08:47 PM

11. not the kids,

the source of the money.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #11)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 01:30 AM

48. How many people today have their fortunes that were funded even partially in atrocities?

Even centuries ago?

How should we deal with the children or even the children of children of those who commit great atrocities?

America
The Congo
Ethiopia
South Africa
The Phillipines
Australia
South America
India
Russia
Poland
Siera Leone
Japan
China

I'm not saying it's right, but what would you suggest that should happen to the grandchildren of those who invested in BMW years after the war? I'm trying to wrap my head around it.

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Response to Glassunion (Reply #48)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 05:36 AM

66. Where is England on that list??

Where is Israel?


We live on an evil planet

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Response to malaise (Reply #66)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 05:39 AM

68. You fixed it by saying "planet".

Although I would exempt the native people of Antarctica.

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Response to gejohnston (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 07:48 PM

7. Not to diminish the point of your OP,

but truthfully, is there *any* global mega-corporation that doesn't have a similarly filthy history?

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Response to RedCappedBandit (Reply #7)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:00 PM

28. Good Point. Of Course There Isn't

Even today big oil continues to run roughshod over indigenous peoples to drill for oil. Running them off their native lands, then polluting the water and destroying the natural habitat.

Goldman Sachs is trading on grains. Raising the prices of grains for the already starving and poor in 2nd and 3rd world nations.

This is all happening right now. We still have the capacity for just as much evil as the Nazi's but now we call the weapons derivatives or commodities and falsely claim it has no impact on people.

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Response to RedCappedBandit (Reply #7)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 08:50 PM

101. Sanrio Corporation is about as squeaky clean as you can get

If Sanrio Corp., the home of Hello Kitty, ever has a scandal, then it will be time to throw in the towel.

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Response to Art_from_Ark (Reply #101)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 09:54 PM

102. Sorry they are not so squeaky clean.

A 4.6% shareholder in the corp built war machines for the Japanese during WWII. In particular the A6M "Zero" naval fighter.

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Response to Glassunion (Reply #102)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 10:00 PM

103. Oh, for crying out loud

The company itself was formed in 1960, long after the war.

And just who is this this 4.6% shareholder who would be well over 90 years old now if they built war machines 70 years ago?

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Response to Art_from_Ark (Reply #103)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 11:05 PM

104. Mitsubishi

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Response to gejohnston (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 08:38 PM

10. better not take Bayer aspirin either, I've heard they have a connection to Nazis. nt

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Response to Raine (Reply #10)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:31 PM

32. Bayer

Nazi chairman
In 1956 Fritz ter Meer became chairman of Bayer's supervisory board. He was convicted at the Nuremberg trials for his part in carrying out experiments on human subjects at Auschwitz. He was found "guilty of count two, plunder and spoliation, and count three, slavery and mass murder" and sentenced to seven years imprisonment and served five years. Wikipedia

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Response to rickyhall (Reply #32)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 02:41 AM

60. Only half of the directors of IG Farben were convicted...

and all received early release from prison. Most were quickly restored to their directorships.

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Response to gejohnston (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 08:58 PM

13. GAF

 

One of the largest in the roofing industry have ties back to to the Zyklon B poison used in concentration camps.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_IG

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Response to gejohnston (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 09:05 PM

16. Goebbels was originally an ardent socialist.

And grew impatient of Hitler's refusal for revolution. Hitler took him aside and had a long heart to heart with him. After that talk Goebbels was changed forever and thought of Hitler as a god. That was in the late 20's. Hitler was wise enough to patiently take control slowly and steadily never having to depend on revolution for his fascist goals. Mainly constant propaganda which was Goebbels main repsonsibility.

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Response to gejohnston (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 09:16 PM

18. I don't know from BMW cars.

I will say having wrenched on the motorbikes, they are proof that Germans indeed have a sense of humor.

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Response to gejohnston (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 09:22 PM

19. They didn't inherit that from Goebbels


The family fortune came from their biological father. Goebbels was their stepfather.

WTF does their stepfather have to do with it?

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Response to gejohnston (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 09:25 PM

20. One name

Prescott Bush

Nazi sympathizer and banker.

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Response to gejohnston (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 09:30 PM

21. The sins of the father sort of thing? I'm not normally so magnanimous, but I won't begrudge them

their lot in life based upon their step-father's crimes. ...but I do see your point.

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Response to gejohnston (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 09:40 PM

22. Can't believe the O.P. passed up the references to the BUSH family, among others

*********QUOTE*********

.... The Goebbels family weren’t the only ones to get rich from Nazi efforts. Barclays, Chase, and the Bush family made money hand over fist financing Hitler.

The Vatican has built a secret property empire worth close to a billion U.S. dollars using money Italian dictator Mussolini gave the church for blessing fascism.

Modern tyrants have gotten wealthy from oppressing people as well. For example, the family of U.S.-backed Egyptian dictator Mubarak holds $40-70 billion. Russian leader Putin also has a current net worth of $40 billion. (They pale in comparison to Libya’s Gaddafi, worth $200 billion.) ....

*******UNQUOTE********

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Response to UTUSN (Reply #22)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:49 PM

43. I knew about them, BMW was news to me

that is the difference.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #43)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 06:00 PM

98. Since the thread is back on top, I'll answer, "the difference" for me is to publicize the

chicanery and criminality of Rethugs at any opportunity, over and over, and at random times in between. There is always somebody who hasn't heard something like the BUSH-HITLER connection. Call it activism or propaganda, it's my way of doing my little bit.

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Response to gejohnston (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 09:41 PM

23. Ford, Pepsi(or was it Coke?), and other US Companies

Had plants in Germany. Not to mention many other now huge companies like VW, Porsche, BASF, Bayer, etc had origins in the Nazi era.

Would it have been better to leave Germany in a scorched earth position? I think the Allied countries did the correct thing in helping Germany rebuild its economy and industry.

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Response to gejohnston (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 09:56 PM

26. I'd not drive a BMW or a Ford, BUT these people are not descendants of Goebbles at all

nor is their wealth inherited from him. He was their mother's second husband. GW Bush is a descendant and heir to Prescott, however, as is HW Bush, Jeb, the lot of them and Prescott did much, much business with the Nazis.

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Response to gejohnston (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:00 PM

27. Explain to me why this is a good reason not to buy a BMW.

Are we to punish all people for the sins and crimes of their forebears?

"I know that no one should ever buy a Ford, because Henry Ford was a racist prick. Therefore, despite whatever sort of product they make today, I won't buy a Ford. La-di-da-di-fuckin'-da."

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Response to harmonicon (Reply #27)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 02:14 AM

52. The company built its fortunes on the backs of slave labor. Isn't that enough? jeesh. - n/t

 

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #52)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 02:27 AM

56. No, unless you think corporations really are people, fully endowed with thoughts and feelings. (nt)

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Response to gejohnston (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:07 PM

30. That's not a GOOD reason.

A good reason would be that you can't make that performance car perform during a test-drive. The sales person should be able to tell pretty quickly who's just buying it for that round status symbol, and who knows how to drive! (Deny a sale to the status-seeker, and steer them over to the Humdingers lot.)

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Response to kentauros (Reply #30)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:39 PM

33. My dealer

 


let me test drive mine.

When I say test drive, I mean, we opened that sucker UP.

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Response to SailorMike (Reply #33)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:44 PM

35. My brother told me a story of when he was test-driving his VW Golf.

There's some U-turn in Austin that he likes and knows it's best for cars that can handle the curves. The saleswoman was with him when he took that curve fast.

He said the car performed beautifully, and was the primary reason he ended up buying it. But, he also saw that the woman's hands and fingers were "white-knuckled" where she was gripping the hand-holds! Yeah, she wasn't used to someone that knew how to put a car to its design specs

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Response to kentauros (Reply #35)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:17 PM

41. Though there is that pesky fact that he didn't know that the car was capable

of taking a curve fast when he did it. Did he really need to take the curve fast and scare the crap out of someone in order to know if it could take the curve?

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #41)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:48 PM

42. His intent wasn't to scare anyone.

And he knew what the specs of the car were before buying it. He knows cars and what they can and cannot do.

My point of retelling the story was that most Americans are sold a performance-fantasy for their various performance-vehicles, a fantasy a strong majority would never consider attempting, much less fantasizing. And when someone applies that fantasy in real-world capability, they can't handle it.

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Response to kentauros (Reply #35)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 12:04 AM

45. I've seen almost the opposite scenario

A long time ago an attractive female friend of mine with something of an "attitude" was working for a VW Porsche dealer as their courtesy driver, shuttling customers who had brought their car in for service around.

God help any suave Porsche driving stud who hit on her while being piloted around in the Rabbit they used for the courtesy car because she would leave them looking like Madonna at the end of this BMW commercial, the girl could drive and did I mention she had attitude?

Oddly enough, none of them ever complained to the management.




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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #45)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 12:17 AM

46. Great story!

And yes, it depends on the area and just what kind of buyer they're trying to sell to. I would guess in my brother's case it was the typical, never-take-chances, motor-vehicle-operator kind of customer, and not someone that understands the capabilities of the vehicle.

I remember a salesman telling me at one place that they used to have a salesman/parts guy that could "tripod" a car on the cloverleafs (salesman told me the guy had a professional driver's license.) I don't think he sold many cars when he took people for test-drives, either

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Response to kentauros (Reply #35)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 05:55 PM

97. Hubby did the same with the civic hybrid



Those cars can perform.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #97)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 06:02 PM

99. What I'd like to say here, too, about making a performance car "perform"

is that it increases your driving skills. I'm sure most MVOs just see someone being an ass or driving recklessly, but there is a difference. I'd call most wrecker drivers "reckless asses" as a comparison

I'll have to ask a friend of mine that has a Civic Hybrid how fast she's ever taken it around a turn. Probably not fast. Her husband on the other hand...

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Response to gejohnston (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:30 PM

31. It is sick how his relatives became rich off of suffering

As for buying a BMW, thankfully I'll never be able to afford it so that's not a problem.

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Response to gejohnston (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:04 PM

39. Correction: Harald Quant was NOT the son of Joseph Goebbels.

Last edited Thu Jan 31, 2013, 02:45 PM - Edit history (1)

He was the son of Magda Goebbels from her first marriage. Harold was Goebbels' stepson. The wealth did not originate from Goebbels, but from Quant's father.

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Response to gejohnston (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:06 PM

40. Never had a hankerin' for a BMW, or .....

 

.... any other German car.

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Response to gejohnston (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:55 PM

44. I will stick with GM, Chrysler or Dodge products

 

always been good for us.

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Response to sad-cafe (Reply #44)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 02:30 AM

58. You know that Chrysler is owned by Fiat...

who manufactured things for the German army during WWII?

You can try to fight a battle against ghosts with your current purchases, but it's not going to change anything in the past.

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Response to sad-cafe (Reply #44)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 05:33 AM

65. GM supported the Nazi war effort.

They built the Nazis vehicles and aircraft.

GM and Ford were vital components of the Nazi war effort. German Ford was the second largest producer of trucks for the Nazi military. GM’s plants built thousands of bomber and jet fighter propulsion systems for the Luftwaffe — while at the same time profiting from production of aircraft engines for the U.S. Army Air Corps.

Chrysler owns Dodge, and Daimler still owns a 20% share of Chrysler. The very same Daimler-Benz that employed slave labour during WWII. The slaves "toiled eighteen hours a day; cowering under the lash, sleeping six to a dog kennel eight feet square, starving or freezing to death at the whim of their guards"

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Response to gejohnston (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 01:30 AM

47. How is a BMW like a case of hemorrhoids?

Sooner or later, every asshole gets one.

Ka-ching!

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Response to Flying Squirrel (Reply #47)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 02:18 AM

54. ROTFLMAO. Bravo! - n/t

 

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Response to Flying Squirrel (Reply #47)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 07:41 AM

70. Seems the worst drivers I've seen on the road drive BMWs. . .

. . .and the ones with New Jersey license plates are the worst of the lot.

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Response to gejohnston (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 02:07 AM

50. Hugo Boss made Nazi uniforms.


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Response to gejohnston (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 02:25 AM

55. I was made in Germany !

I don't post often here but I do observe and agree with most of whats being projected by the posters here. That being said, I had three grandparents that were Nazi' . Should I also be Banned from this site because of that? I was brought up as a liberal by these very same people (both my grandfathers were wounded) . They did in fact wear the uniform, However,they didn't carry the idealogy. By the logic that comes with this OP I should be banned from posting here and if that is the original intent of this post , I will, with heavy heart. leave.



(just kidding about leaving, I'm not going anywhere but here)

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Response to Nabbysensei (Reply #55)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 02:35 AM

59. Some people are so absurd about this sort of stuff.

It seems to be a lot like superstition, or maybe it's just an overgrown Hatfield/McCoy feud.

I had a friend who was a member of the Hitler Youth. It wasn't his choice; it was just something that German kids did when he was a kid. He had also been a communist, learned Russian, and took trips to the USSR when he was a little older.

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Response to gejohnston (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 02:29 AM

57. Maybe so. But, my '73 2002 tii was a great car.

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Response to gejohnston (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 03:10 AM

61. So from this thread...

Am I to assume that no true Scottsman here on DU, has ever owned or purchased anything or any compontent from VW, Porshe, BMW, Benz, Chrysler, Ford, Kodak, Fanta (yes the soda), IBM, Siemens, Bayer, Random House, Coca-Cola, ExxonMobil, Chevron, BP, Fiat, Mini Cooper, Audi, Ducati, Suzuki, Smart, Mitsubishi, Detroit Diesel, Opel, Studebaker, Daewoo, Subaru, Harley-Davidson, Lexmark, ThinkPad, Lenovo, Linux... It goes on and on.

How far should we take it? I had a CT scan once. Which was invented and manufactured by a company that made their fortune during WWII on the Nazi side. Am I now a Nazi sympathizer because I was fed into the Nazi funded machine and scanned by the Nazi funded technology to figure out what may have been causing my medical condition?

Hell, there may be a Nazi wind turbine feeding electricity to my Nazi laptop at this very Nazi moment!!?!?!?!?!?!

NAZI!!!!

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Response to Glassunion (Reply #61)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 04:19 AM

64. I bet the people you mentioned aren't too big on DuPonts products, either ...


I find DUers who openly tout their historical ignorance by presenting their über-selective criteria for moral consumption quite entertaining.

" I won't drive a BMW, because a Bloomberg article mentions BMW and Nazi in the same sentence. I have no problem with Ford and Dupont though, because no one has yet written such an article."

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Response to gejohnston (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 10:16 AM

73. ... I guess you mean a reason other than not be able to afford one

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Response to tk2kewl (Reply #73)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 05:33 PM

93. that I'm more of a pick up truck

kind of guy anyway

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #93)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 05:37 PM

94. me too

I just replaced my 94 S-10 with an 02

I've never purchased a new car and probably never will. I have better things to do with my money.

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Response to gejohnston (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 01:18 PM

80. They must be evil if their step-grandfather was evil

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Response to gejohnston (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 01:22 PM

82. As much as I detest both rich people and NAZIs, the Goebbels family has done nothing wrong

 

A few converted to Judaism, in fact...

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Response to gejohnston (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 01:47 PM

90. most "old wealth" in the US came from slave labor

 

insurance, banking, real estate, etc.,

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Response to gejohnston (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 05:20 PM

91. Eye opening thread. For many reasons. (nt)

 

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Response to gejohnston (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 08:28 PM

100. I sat down and figured out that I have owned nothing but Axis vehicles my whole life.

In '91 I bought a '79 Toyota Celica (car was totaled)
In '93 I bought an '81 Ford F100 (engine caught fire)
In '95 I bought an '88 Eagle Medallion (I hated it)
In '95 I bought a '92 Mazda 626 (was totaled 7 days later)
In '95 I bought an '89 Ford Mustang (lost due to flood)
In '96 I enherited an '88 Cadillac Eldorado (grandpa passed away) (car was totaled as well)
In '99 I bought a '97 Chevy Monte Carlo (sold when I got a company car)
In '00 I had a '00 Toyota Corolla (company car)
In '02 I had an '02 Toyota Corolla (company car)
In '04 I had an '04 Toyota Corolla (company car)
In '05 I bought an '01 Nissan Xterra (traded in)
In '09 I bought an '07 BMW 328i

Apparently after doing some quick research I found that all of these manufacturers produced for the Japanese and German war efforts.

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Response to gejohnston (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 01:34 AM

107. Laughable. Good one!

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