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Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:19 PM

The Most Addictive Infographic About Walmart's Greed We've Ever Seen

Can’t. Stop. Scrolling


Found on The Winning Words Project’s website/MoveOn.org

130 replies, 17999 views

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Reply The Most Addictive Infographic About Walmart's Greed We've Ever Seen (Original post)
Playinghardball Jan 2013 OP
jorno67 Jan 2013 #1
tblue Jan 2013 #2
SharonAnn Jan 2013 #42
glowing Jan 2013 #62
brush Jan 2013 #105
Angry Dragon Jan 2013 #3
russspeakeasy Jan 2013 #4
lark Jan 2013 #5
FSogol Jan 2013 #6
ceile Jan 2013 #7
JDPriestly Jan 2013 #8
SCVDem Jan 2013 #9
fasttense Jan 2013 #10
alp227 Jan 2013 #87
Fla Dem Jan 2013 #11
jinx1 Jan 2013 #60
Demo_Chris Jan 2013 #12
gateley Jan 2013 #13
SunSeeker Jan 2013 #14
Brigid Jan 2013 #15
PatSeg Jan 2013 #16
aquart Jan 2013 #19
aquart Jan 2013 #17
abelenkpe Jan 2013 #30
SheilaT Jan 2013 #18
bobclark86 Jan 2013 #20
Romulus Quirinus Jan 2013 #23
bluesbassman Jan 2013 #24
HiPointDem Jan 2013 #25
redstatebluegirl Jan 2013 #26
eaglesfanintn Jan 2013 #31
redstatebluegirl Jan 2013 #36
JaneyVee Jan 2013 #50
SomethingFishy Jan 2013 #29
bobclark86 Jan 2013 #33
JaneyVee Jan 2013 #54
laundry_queen Jan 2013 #104
Benton D Struckcheon Jan 2013 #124
Meaniepants Jan 2013 #122
abelenkpe Jan 2013 #32
bobclark86 Jan 2013 #38
smokey nj Jan 2013 #40
bobclark86 Jan 2013 #46
smokey nj Jan 2013 #55
erpowers Jan 2013 #80
BlancheSplanchnik Jan 2013 #85
jmowreader Jan 2013 #94
King_Klonopin Jan 2013 #110
FiveGoodMen Jan 2013 #41
bobclark86 Jan 2013 #48
FiveGoodMen Jan 2013 #52
bobclark86 Jan 2013 #59
JaneyVee Jan 2013 #56
bobclark86 Jan 2013 #63
leftstreet Jan 2013 #70
UtahLib Jan 2013 #69
JimDandy Jan 2013 #98
eShirl Jan 2013 #112
abelenkpe Jan 2013 #47
bobclark86 Jan 2013 #57
laundry_queen Jan 2013 #106
erpowers Jan 2013 #76
snort Jan 2013 #103
newthinking Jan 2013 #111
frylock Jan 2013 #35
bobclark86 Jan 2013 #39
abelenkpe Jan 2013 #49
frylock Jan 2013 #58
SharonAnn Jan 2013 #44
bobclark86 Jan 2013 #65
bongbong Jan 2013 #45
klook Jan 2013 #53
bluesbassman Jan 2013 #64
bongbong Jan 2013 #67
OnionPatch Jan 2013 #66
bhikkhu Jan 2013 #91
sulphurdunn Jan 2013 #92
Ikonoklast Jan 2013 #99
morningfog Jan 2013 #101
JackRiddler Jan 2013 #117
progree Jan 2013 #125
madokie Jan 2013 #21
bluesbassman Jan 2013 #22
Initech Jan 2013 #27
limpyhobbler Jan 2013 #28
Lizzie Poppet Jan 2013 #34
naaman fletcher Jan 2013 #37
sheshe2 Jan 2013 #43
Liberal_in_LA Jan 2013 #51
Rider3 Jan 2013 #61
exboyfil Jan 2013 #68
Mosby Jan 2013 #71
erpowers Jan 2013 #73
Mosby Jan 2013 #78
erpowers Jan 2013 #82
Mosby Jan 2013 #83
aptal Jan 2013 #102
progree Jan 2013 #127
erpowers Feb 2013 #128
aptal Feb 2013 #130
indepat Jan 2013 #72
Fire Walk With Me Jan 2013 #74
WillyT Jan 2013 #75
dkf Jan 2013 #77
laundry_queen Jan 2013 #107
Hissyspit Jan 2013 #113
dkf Jan 2013 #121
MannyGoldstein Jan 2013 #79
tavalon Jan 2013 #81
Brickbat Jan 2013 #84
smirkymonkey Jan 2013 #86
calimary Jan 2013 #88
beac Jan 2013 #89
DaveJ Jan 2013 #90
Coyotl Jan 2013 #93
Initech Jan 2013 #95
LittleGirl Jan 2013 #96
rurallib Jan 2013 #97
another_liberal Jan 2013 #100
colsohlibgal Jan 2013 #108
PrezHillary2016 Jan 2013 #109
drynberg Jan 2013 #114
olegramps Jan 2013 #115
Freethinker65 Jan 2013 #116
nolabels Jan 2013 #118
datasuspect Jan 2013 #119
HughBeaumont Jan 2013 #120
NewYorkTaxPayer Jan 2013 #123
oldhippie Jan 2013 #126
baldguy Feb 2013 #129

Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:26 PM

1. But they sell guns....so that makes it ok.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:26 PM

2. Dang! That is brilliant!

Devastating. Concise. Easy to understand. I am so glad I have my mom a Costco card and told her to cancel the Sam's Club membership. Evil evil evil evil evil. Never gonna set foot in their evil stores.

Thank you for sharing!

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Response to tblue (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:42 PM

42. Don't most employees also have a Medicaid card for health insurance?

Again, subsidized by the taxpayers.

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Response to SharonAnn (Reply #42)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 04:15 PM

62. Plus, don't forget the amount of money that Walmart

insists on a town give up in property tax revenue and the amount of money it costs the town to build roads and increase traffic demands to the big box store, not to mention the number of main st stores that will be bypassed and squeezed out of the competition market in the town when the Walmart comes in and builds their box store/ strip mall area on cheap land on the outskirts of the town where they have the land and space to build over formerly vacant marshlands, drained, and converted into commercial property.

Then more people in the town lose their jobs on main st and more people lose their homes (property tax income) and less money in town means more people on Govt programs. And eventually, even the Walmart is forced to close their doors because there aren't enough people left with jobs to keep the Walmart profitable. The younger people are forced to move away to get a job that can take care of the family, and the town becomes a virtual ghost town with no Main St left and a 40 minute drive for elderly retiree's on a fixed income to have to drive to the next town over where the new Walmart has just been built.

Sad, deadly downward spiral of the big box store! Regulation and minimum wages that are living wages would help to offset the devastation that Walmart can cause in smaller cities and towns. And the "right" most "common sense" action for the good of The People is not taken because the Walton's and their investors buy their politicians to protect their billions from the people who actually do the "hard day's work load" in America.

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Response to SharonAnn (Reply #42)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:43 PM

105. Walmart even has a phrase for it. It's called externalizing costs.

My phrase for the Walmart and the Walton siblings is "greedy bastards."

I mean, how many billions (1000 million) do they need to hoard?

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:33 PM

3. rec and kick

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:39 PM

4. Nice job..

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:53 PM

5. K&R

I REALLY hate Wallly world, never darken their doorsteps.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:56 PM

6. Awesome graphic. K&R n/t

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:02 PM

7. K&R! n/t

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:04 PM

8. Beautiful. K&R.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:07 PM

9. Bless the job creators!

Yes, the Waltons!

Can you imagine how many extra government workers were hired just to meet the needs of WalMart employees?

See? Job creation!

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:09 PM

10. Each of the Waltons have $20 billion

and they can't pay their employees a salary that exceeds food stamp requirements.

But We the people can afford to subsidies each of those $20 billion Waltons?

Waltons are Leaches, everyone of them.

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Response to fasttense (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 08:00 PM

87. Exactly how Wal-fare is defined:

Walton trust fund kids get tax breaks & leave the ready of us with the bill for the wal mart peons.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:12 PM

11. K & R Should send this to every RW nut job we know. Outstanding. n/t

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Response to Fla Dem (Reply #11)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 04:05 PM

60. AMEN

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:12 PM

12. Very nicely done

 

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:14 PM

13. K&R!!!!

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:15 PM

14. K&R

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:16 PM

15. I regret . . .

that I have but one rec to give for this thread.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:38 PM

16. "If you work hard and play by the rules"

You'll get old faster and die sooner, while companies like Walmart prosper!

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #16)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:44 PM

19. My mom's advice: NEVER play by their rules.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:43 PM

17. A corporation that declares a profit while debiting the nation is a parasite.

Parasites kill the host and move on.

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Response to aquart (Reply #17)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:24 PM

30. +1000 nt

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:44 PM

18. Why I won't shop at WalMart, and haven't in over a decade.

It's actually scary, in my opinion, that corporations today have totally forgotten what Henry Ford figured out a century ago. If you pay your employees enough money so that they can buy what your company makes or sells, everyone benefits. And back then, when Mr. Ford raised the wages of his assembly line workers, all the other automobile manufacturers had hissy fits. A lot like the way the CEOs of other big box stores are so upset at Costco for paying their employees well.

We really need strong unions again in this country, and we really need something along the lines of a general strike.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:50 PM

20. Wait... she makes $11 an hour to run a friggin' cash register?

There's people who have college degrees and work in their fields who make less than that... and don't get me started on non-union direct support workers in our nursing homes and ARC houses who TOP OUT at $9 an hour around here to take care of the elderly and mentally retarded... where's the bleeding heart for those people who actually DO something for society?

If you work a low-impact (on the community good), low-skill job that could be replaced by a computer and a stack of plastic bags — i.e., bagging DVDs and toilet paper — you're not worth $50,000 a year. It's that simple. Sorry.

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:59 PM

23. All you've done is make an argument for a higher minimum wage.

Just because one person is getting screwed doesn't mean that we should screw everyone else in some misguided attempt at "fairness." That's basically Scott Walker's entire argument for breaking the public employee's union.

That leaves out the whole issue of WalMart using supplemental food assistance for their workers as a way to subsidize low wages. They are stealing directly from you, Mr. Fed-up Taxpayer.

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:03 PM

24. You're looking at it the wrong way bob...

Walmart is extremely profitable based in large part to the poverty level wages they pay their employees. If the companies that run the businesses you cite as underpaying their employees are making disproportionately large profits to salary cost too, then they should also pay their employees more.

Disparaging the people who are employed at Walmart for their skill sets or job description does not bolster your argument.

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:03 PM

25. oh for god's sake. farcical.

 

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:04 PM

26. I think this is being used as an example of corporate welfare.

We all know tons of people working in hospitals, nursing homes, community homes making wages that are just not fair. By the way, not sure about the math but 11.00 an hour is 22, 880 or $440 a week. Daycare in our town for a child would be around 110 a week, after taxes and daycare she has nothing to live on.

I think EVERYONE deserves a living wage. The reason the only jobs available are Walmart is that we have allowed most of our jobs to be outsourced or shipped overseas. We have no place for a hardworking high school grad to make a living. They used to go into the factories or trade schools but those are no more. Not everyone can afford college of any kind but they still deserve a wage that allows them a decent life. Not a BMW life, a Chevy life.

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Response to redstatebluegirl (Reply #26)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:26 PM

31. If they get 40 hours

Most of the time, Wally world cuts the hours down so the employees aren't considered full time. If they aren't full time, they don't get benefits. Many workers have a hard time getting to 30 hours a week (I think it's 32 to be considered full time, but don't quote me on that).
To Bob's original point - paying Walmart employees a living wage may actually increase the wages of others. In order to keep up with Walmart's great salaries, other companies will have to increase what they pay. Rising tide lifts all boats.

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Response to eaglesfanintn (Reply #31)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:29 PM

36. Preaching to the choir

I totally agree with paying a living wage. I do know that they rarely allow their "associates" to work more than 35 hours a week. The Walton family built a huge new art museum in Arkansas but cannot pay their workers a living wage. I understand how just one corporation doing the right thing helps everybody.

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Response to eaglesfanintn (Reply #31)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:54 PM

50. Which brings us back to Unionism. Unions negotiating wages benefits even non-union workers

through wage competition.

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:16 PM

29. So your argument is everyone should be paid less

because people with college degrees can't find a decent paying job?

Fucking brilliant.

The person who serves you, the person who cleans up after you, the person who makes your life easier, is not worth 50 grand a year to you?
So, how much is it worth to you not to have your garbage piled up on the street?
Tell us what a fair wage is for all those people who "don't do anything for society"..

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Response to SomethingFishy (Reply #29)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:28 PM

33. Where to begin...

"So your argument is everyone should be paid less because people with college degrees can't find a decent paying job?"

No. People who do more to actually help other people should get paid more. The caseworkers at the local mental health clinic in a rural area who makes $25,000 a year with a master's degree shouldn't be on the same pay scale as a Walmart greeter.

"The person who serves you, the person who cleans up after you, the person who makes your life easier, is not worth 50 grand a year to you?"

You mean mostly me? Sorry, I don't have a maid or even a neighborhood kid to shovel my snow. I can use one of the self-checkout stations and bag my own junk.

"So, how much is it worth to you not to have your garbage piled up on the street?"

Garbage men in my area are union and make a hell of a lot more than $11 an hour. There's a difference between bagging groceries and physically hauling thousands of pounds of potentially hazardous waste in the course of a day.

"Tell us what a fair wage is for all those people who "don't do anything for society."

Less than the guys caring for your nursing home-bound grandmother, or helping the sexually-abused teenage girl with Down syndrome learn how to take care of herself who now make less than the Walmart employee whose only job requirements are knowing how to push a computer button when it tells you to and how to swipe a bar code.

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #33)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:58 PM

54. So instead of fighting FOR higher wages for home-aides you would rather lower Wal-Mart salaries?

That doesn't even begin to address the the fact we subsidize Wal-Mart's profits.

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #33)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:39 PM

104. You're being obtuse - though not deliberately I suspect.

The reason the caseworkers at the local mental health unit are making such a shitty wage is actually DUE to corporations like Walmart. They pay shit in corporate taxes, they pay their employees shit so the government has to make up the difference, they don't give out benefits which means people have to rely on gov't mental health care, which leaves the government in a crappy position of having to decide do they give caseworkers $10,000 more/yr or do they feed hungry children of Walmart workers?

Have you ever been a cashier? Besides, most cashiers don't ONLY do one thing. When I was a cashier, I did inventory, data entry, customer service, janitorial duties, stocking, and I was the receptionist on top of it all. I was worth every penny I was paid.

You, thankfully, don't get to decide what is 'useful' enough to society to demand a living wage. Those self-checkout thingies are disappearing where I live because there was too much theft, and it required nearly as many staff to assist people using them as it did to ring them through themselves.

dude, it's not a race to the bottom. Why are you advocating for that single mom to make LESS instead of wondering why-in-the-ever-living-fuck ANYONE with a master's is making $25,000/yr and how do we change that?

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Response to laundry_queen (Reply #104)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 02:51 PM

124. Exactly

"dude, it's not a race to the bottom. Why are you advocating for that single mom to make LESS instead of wondering why-in-the-ever-living-fuck ANYONE with a master's is making $25,000/yr and how do we change that?"

Couldn't agree more.
I see arguments like the one this guy's making all the time on conservative boards, but didn't expect to see someone try it here.

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #33)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:33 PM

122. people who don't do

anything for society? Would that be the people who sit by the pool all day drinking myi tyis collecting dividend checks? Would that be the jokers on wall street who manufacture nothing and make 15 million a year? I'd like to watch you run a register at walmart on a very busy day, or toss 50# bags of dog food on the shelf. You're most likely talking to people on here who have done a stint at walmart one time or another that are both amused and insulted at your ignorance and lack of empathy.

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:27 PM

32. Others make less and work harders so she should make less?

All are working longer hours and harder than any of the Waltons. But you want to begrudge a working mother? Your attitude will keep everyone down fighting amongst themselves while the extremely wealthy continue to feed off our labor in luxury.

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Response to abelenkpe (Reply #32)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:33 PM

38. Argumentum ad Misericordiam... Google it.

"But you want to begrudge a working mother?"

Her being a mother has nothing to do with getting paid $11 an hour to do a no-skill job. Whether she has tried to get better skills and find a better job DO have something to do with it. If she hasn't tried, I have no pity for her. We don't know one way or the other, however.

What we need are better training opportunities in this country and a higher value on work which helps the community at large, rather than just for making money for the sake of making money.

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #38)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:41 PM

40. How do you know her job doesn't require any skills? The graphic doesn't say what she does at Walmart

You've also totally missed the point of the graphic which is that WE subsidize the shitty salaries the Walmart corporation pays its employees.

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Response to smokey nj (Reply #40)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:49 PM

46. It's implied she is a basic employee...

and not a manager, an office worker or some kind of specialist. If she IS a manager or a specialist, the graphic is intentionally misleading and she SHOULD (and most likely is) getting paid more.

I get the point: Cut into profits to pay people more. Guess what? That's not likely going to happen, and no amount of bitching on a website will fix that. It will take a fundamental shift in the way we think about the value of labor and the end results of said labor, and no "good capitalist" like the Waltons would EVER go there.

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #46)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:58 PM

55. So Walmart isn't the problem, the people who think their employees should be paid better wages are

the problem. Ok.

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #46)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 07:07 PM

80. "Good Capitalists" Have Gone There

Unless you consider people like Henry Ford and the leaders of Costco bad capitalists, "good capitalist" have gone there. Ford increased the pay of his workers so they would be able to afford to buy Model T cars. Workers at Costco are, on average, paid more than workers at Sam's Club (owned by the Walton family) workers.

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #46)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 07:57 PM

85. a fundamental shift in people's viewpoints

That is the ultimate goal of Liberalism--a shift towards a more humane society on a multitude of fronts, which requires more humane individuals. A slow way of change but necessary, since society and institutions are made of----PEOPLE.

If you think we should just give up and accept bazillionaires paying such crap wages that the taxpayers have to bail them out then what are you doing in the first place, being on an an idealistic Liberal discussion board that values hoping and fighting for a better world ?

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #46)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 09:31 PM

94. I take it you've never worked at Walmart

If Faith was a cashier or a shelf-stocker, she'd be making minimum wage. Department supervisors make 50 cents to $1 more per hour.

The only way Faith is pulling down $11 per hour in that shithole is if she's working in the back office or she's an assistant manager.

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #46)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 03:07 AM

110. Consider this also

1) What other employment options does this woman have?
Walmart kills competition and good-paying jobs.

2) She may, in fact, have a college degree or other skills.
But, like many friends of my own, she may be forced to
take a job at Walmart which is well below her skill level
because the job market is so depressed, which results
in people accepting LOW WAGE jobs out of desperation.

3) If you asked her, I think she would say that her job
is "socially valuable" to her daughter (for one).

4) Who am I to deem myself the arbiter of the social value
of anyone's work. I am a nurse. I make 5 TIMES more than
this woman's pay rate. I feel I earn every cent, BUT is my
work really 5 times more valuable than hers ?

5) The wealthy corporatist of this country have pulled off an
amazing slight-of-hand: they have managed to pit worker
against worker, such as the fueling a contrived animosity
against unions and using the lowest common denominator
as "the standard" rather than a higher vision of "living wages"
for our labor force.

Walmart spends MILLIONS of dollars to prevent their employees
from organizing unions. Money that could be spent on raising
their wages. Follow the money. Where they keep their treasure
is where you will find their heart.

My anger is reserved for the greedy, antisocial companies
(who are people, too, my friends) like Mall-Warts which
suck the life out of their workers and pass the cost on to
the public. It is evil in the purest sense.

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #38)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:41 PM

41. You are on the wrong site

And the wrong side.

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Response to FiveGoodMen (Reply #41)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:52 PM

48. Why is that?

Because I value some jobs more than others and I think we should pay people based on what they contribute to society? I thought paying teachers, nurses and caseworkers more than Walmart greeters and "professional athletes" because they do more to help society was a very Democratic thing.

Apparently paying people with jobs which do little to help society the same or more than someone driving food to homebound seniors is your preferred point. I'll keep that in mind...

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #48)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:55 PM

52. Just to take one example, we will always need garbage men

And I want them to go home to a good house at the end of the day.

But you say, "Fuck them, anybody can do that. Why should they earn enough to live?"

That does not belong here.

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Response to FiveGoodMen (Reply #52)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 04:03 PM

59. And garbage men aren't Walmart greeters.

I said one job has more value to society than the other (and more risk of personal injury), and should be paid accordingly.

I never said "Fuck them, anybody can do that. Why should they earn enough to live?" Where the minimum wage should be is another discussion altogether. Thank you for putting words into my mouth.

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #48)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:59 PM

56. Your thinking is bizarre. We're not supposed to be tearing others down, but lifting all up.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #56)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 04:15 PM

63. Good point.

I mean that. You are right. I see how my post could be taken as against the basic tenants of what I actually believe. I apologize for my tone coming off wrong.

I think people need to make enough to survive (duh) — actually, they need enough to thrive. A REAL minimum wage above that $14k someone makes now needs to be in place. Somebody busting their ass and going on food stamps while their boss games the social welfare system to make a quick buck is so obviously very bad, I didn't focus on it in my OP. I thought that was pretty much a given, but as usual, that fancy Internet thing makes intent difficult to decipher sometimes.

The point of my post was — above the point of a real living wage, that is — that impact on the community should be much more important to income than it is in the current system.

So, which issue should be handled first? That's the question now, and I'm willing to let mine take a backseat.

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #63)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 04:39 PM

70. Labor is labor, regardless of its social impact

This is C(r)apitalism

Your passionate support of caregivers is commendable, but you can advocate without trashing Walmart workers

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #56)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 04:38 PM

69. You couldn't have made a better point.

Pitting the members of the working class against one another is a Repug strategy that has enabled Walmart to succeed in such a disproportionately obscene manner.

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #48)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:34 PM

98. We need to do BOTH!

Walmart workers are not making a living wage, hence the NEED for foodstamps. The idea is to pressure the employers with the largest workforce (Walmart) to raise the wage scale to a point where the taxpayers are not paying part of their employees salaries via foodstamps and medicaid. That point is called " a living wage" for good reason. When the salaries of those employees get raised, it becomes easier to raise the salaries of nursing homes workers etc.

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #48)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 05:36 AM

112. "someone driving food to homebound seniors"

In my area, that work is done entirely by volunteers who, beyond mileage reimbursement for using their own cars and gas, are paid zero, zip, zilch, nada. So yes, I think ALL employees should be paid more.

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #38)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:52 PM

47. Yeah whatever republican

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Response to abelenkpe (Reply #47)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 04:00 PM

57. What, you can't handle a logical fallacy,

so I'm a Republican? Nice. You don't even fucking know me, but you feel the need to call me something I'm not just because I disagree with you slightly.

My point is this: People who help people should be rewarded more than those who don't. Teachers help people directly. Walmart greeters really don't do much to contribute to society at large (an occasional hug doesn't feed or educate children, or care for the elderly). CNAs help people directly. Athletes don't (unless they spend their money on charity). One group should be paid more than the other.

In my eyes, hedge fund managers and Walmart greeters belong in the same category as far as actually helping people. But you don't care what I think, because I must be a Republican because I think people who don't help others and don't make an effort to learn skills to help them do so shouldn't get as much as people who do.

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #57)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:49 PM

106. That's the way it works in a capitalist society

It's supply and demand. Now, far be it from me to defend capitalism, however, what you are advocating is salaries being controlled by someone (gov't?) based on their 'worth' to society. Who gets to decide this 'worth'? What constitutes 'worth'? Is a teacher worth more than a nurse? How about the CEO of an oil company vs the CEO of a non-profit vs the CEO of a green energy company? What about a lawyer vs an accountant? Do vets 'help' people, or just animals? Are doctors 'worth' more than vets?

And so on.


The flaw in your premise is that everyone has a different idea of what "helping" means and what it is 'worth' in real dollars and you will never get a system that dictates wage amounts for each profession. That is why it's important for government to regulate income disparity (and crack down on corporate welfare) so that people can work full time and earn a living, but I don't think dictating wages and making low-skill workers suffer (some who are slightly disabled or have learning disabilities and STILL deserve a living wage) is the route to go.

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #38)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 06:30 PM

76. So Why Do You Have A Problem With Wal-Mart Paying Its Workers More Money?

You end your post by writing, "rather than just for making money for the sake of making money". That statement seems to refer more to the Walton family than the single mother in the info graphic or any other Wal-Mart worker. The woman in the info graphic is not "making money for the sake of making money". She is not even making enough money to provide for herself and her family. The Walton family, on the other hand, could afford to pay their workers more money and still make more money than they need (I would like to point out that I am not opposed to people making more money than they need, I am just responding to your post). So, once again why are you opposed to Wal-Mart paying its workers more?

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #38)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:29 PM

103. Ignorentum ad Foreveriam

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #38)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 05:29 AM

111. Darwinian Socialism - Google it

That is your point of view.

And Wal-Mart does not pay 11$ everywhere.

You are buying an ideology based on false morality and falso choices.

By the way, by using those "self service" checkouts you contribute to poverty by Robotics. A structural problem being created by automation and what happens when corporations shift the benefits of robotics up to their paycheck instead of back into society.

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #20)


Response to frylock (Reply #35)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:34 PM

39. Well, THAT was insightful...

Would you care to add some points of discussion, or leave it with a personal attack?

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #39)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:53 PM

49. You belong at freerepublic

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #39)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 04:01 PM

58. no, i'm pretty satisfied with my original response to your dickish post..

take your class warfare bullshit to another website, slappy.

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:45 PM

44. Really? People wioth a college degree who make less than $11 an hour with no benefits, no sick days

There are hundreds of thousands of people working at Wal-Mart like this.

I doubt that there are that may people with college degrees working for less than $11, working part-time, no benefits, no sick days, etc.

There are certainly some, but I really doubt that the numbers are in any way comparable to the number of low paid Wal-Mart workers.

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Response to SharonAnn (Reply #44)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 04:26 PM

65. It's far more common than you realize...

for starters: This report from today at HuffPo titled Half Of Recent College Grads Work Jobs That Don't Require A Degree http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/29/underemployed-overeducated_n_2568203.html

From the report: 15 percent of cab drivers have bachelor's degrees.

For people actually using their degrees, go to a rural area and ask how much your run-of-the-mill CNA, teacher's aide or newspaper reporter is making (and I mean counties bigger than some states with a population under 100,000 or so, not "rural" like some people consider Flushing or Hackensack).

Anecdotally, my mother works part-time, using her degree, because the job market is so depressed in her area. She coordinates volunteer drivers to get homebound seniors to their doctors appointments because the local Republicans defunded the already-pathetic public transportation system.

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:48 PM

45. LOL

 

How did $11 per hour magically change into $50K a year? The only way she could manage that trick is if she worked 18 hours a day.

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Response to bongbong (Reply #45)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:56 PM

53. +1 for Mathematics. (n/t)

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Response to bongbong (Reply #45)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 04:20 PM

64. The reality is that at $11/hr she makes $22,800 a year...

assuming a 40 hour week. The graphic made the case for a $5,000 a year increase across the board for Walmart employees. That would put her at $27,800, make a significant difference in her life and still keep the Waltons in the lap of luxury.

Didn't see anyone discussing $50k except bob.

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Response to bluesbassman (Reply #64)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 04:30 PM

67. Now subtract the necessities

 

Taxes ...
Food ....
Transportation ....
Housing ....
Insurance ....
Medical expenses not covered by insurance ....

Maybe she'll have enough left at the end of the year to buy a couple small items at the Dollar Store...

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 04:28 PM

66. The simple fact is that it's immoral not to pay a living wage.

There is a going market rate for labor, there always has been. That doesn't make any particular rate right and it doesn't mean it's fair. (For example, the south depended on slavery pre-civil war, which greatly affected labor rates.) Someone who works, who contributes their time and effort to someone else all day, even if what they are doing is trivial, deserves to make a basic living, period. Anything else is just exploitation. Of course rates should go up for more skilled labor from that point. And before you tell me "fairness" has nothing to do with labor rates, just know that we have every right to fight for our labor laws to reflect what we believe is right and fair.

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 08:45 PM

91. Any job is worth what it brings in to the employer in profits

To a retail store, the front counter staff is as much "producers" as machinists are a producers to a manufacturing company. Or a host of other similar examples.

If Walmart brings in that much profit, it is on the backs of the cashiers, stockers, drivers, etc; and their wages should reflect the profits that their efforts earn for their employer.

Its the same anywhere - you can find no end to jobs that people will call worthless and easy (usually by people who have no experience in the job, and who despise people in general), but their value is still in the profits that they generate.

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 09:17 PM

92. Who said anything

about $50k a year? At $11 an hour, working 8 hour days, 5 days a week for 12 months, she'd net about $28K. The median hourly wage for Walmart employees is $9 an hour and would be $17K if the employee worked 40 hour weeks for 52 weeks annually. They don't of course. The net median hourly wage is about $15K. Walmart had revenue before taxes of $402 billion last year. The seven Walton inheritors are collectively work about $102 billion, which is equivalent to a third of the entire population of the US. To say that a Walmart employee isn't worth $11 an hour because a nursing home worker only makles $9 an hours is ironic and strange, considering that the Walton heirs contribute nothing of value to society, not even the stuffing of DVDs into plastic bags.

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:53 PM

99. You just argued against yourself.

There's people who have college degrees and work in their fields who make less than that...


Then,


If you work a low-impact (on the community good), low-skill job that could be replaced by a computer and a stack of plastic bags — i.e., bagging DVDs and toilet paper — you're not worth $50,000 a year. It's that simple. Sorry.


You make a case against market forces dictating wages, then make a case for it.

Which is it?

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:58 PM

101. Every worker, working every job, is entitled to a real living wage.

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #20)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:55 AM

117. So down the line you'll be for exterminating these people, right?

People should only make what you say they're worth, and if it's not enough to live - fuck them, right?

So sooner or later they'll be replaced by a computer and a stack of plastic bags. And then what? Starve them!

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #20)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:02 PM

125. Here, this should warm your heart - a *** thinking a waiter being tipped 18% is too much when God

only gets 10%. And who needs a waiter anyway, after all we could bring our own food. (Though I can't blame him for not wanting to pay more than the 18%, but doesn't have to be nasty and bring God into it)

Man claiming to be pastor leaves waiter note: ‘I give God 10%. Why do you get 18?’
By Dylan Stableford, Yahoo! News | The Sideshow – 11 hrs ago

A man claiming to be a pastor apparently tried to stiff a waiter on a tip, explaining that his work for God absolved him of having to leave one.

A photo of the receipt, posted to Reddit.com, shows a bill for $34.93 that included an automatic 18 percent gratuity ($6.29) above a blank space for an additional tip.

"I give God 10%," the diner wrote on the receipt, scratching out the automatic tip. "Why do you get 18?" He then wrote "Pastor" above his signature, and an emphatic "0" where the additional tip would be.

The Reddit user who submitted the image explained in the comments section that the receipt was part of a total bill for a party of 20, which is why the gratuity was automatically added.

http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/Nu1QgS7PT2etzOYvGGTT7A--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTMxMA--/

More: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/pastor-tip-receipt-155914258.html

=================================

And oh, by the way, $11/hour doesn't result in $50,000/year, not even by half, unless there is a heck of a lot of overtime


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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:51 PM

21. In a nutshell

thank you, I'll pass this on if you don't mind

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:55 PM

22. But, but, but...

But nothing Walmart and the rest of you bloodsucking corporations making bank off of your employees and the rest of the American taxpayers. Time to start providing living wages for the people that have made you obscenely profitable and wealthy.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:06 PM

27. Hey Paul Ryan!!! Want to know who the real takers are in society?

It ain't the working poor. $154 billion a year is fucking greed at this point.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:07 PM

28. very good!

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:28 PM

34. Superb.

Particularly the part about the self-sustaining nature of paying employees well...something Henry Ford realized about a century ago.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:30 PM

37. I'm actually surprised she makes $11 per hour. nt

 

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:45 PM

43. K&R!

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:55 PM

51. nicely designed

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 04:13 PM

61. That's why I will never step into another Walmart EVER

They are greedy, cruel people. They live off the efforts of the working poor. This presentation was a perfect example of that. Thank you for posting this.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 04:31 PM

68. Great graphic

One thing I would ask. What about the father? Faith should not have to carry this burden alone.

How to make Faith's labor more valuable? In a world that competes for investment capital the only way to directly intervene in it is through minimum wage laws. You are not going to shame Walmart into paying more. What Food Stamps, EITC, and Medicaid/SCHIP does is create a minimum guaranteed income (granted in a very inefficient manner given the administration of the varied programs). What would industry reaction be to a $15/hr. minimum wage? In many cases additional labor saving approaches would be adopted that would otherwise not be used because of the added expense (loss of employment opportunities). Many companies would be forced to reduce business (or even close). It was interesting to hear my brother complain about an increase in the minimum wage in his state (he owns a small ice cream shop). It did not impact him directly, but it bid up the wages for his employees who now had the next best alternative. His family is probably pulling down less than $10/hr. in his ice cream shop, but I guess I really don't know for sure.

As others have mentioned on the thread, what is said about Faith can apply especially to CNAs who arguably work in a more demanding job and usually make in the $8 to $10/hr. range. For them especially ones who work with Medicaid patients, you have no profit available to pay wages. Wages are defined by how much society values the services that they provide.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 04:56 PM

71. apple made a 42 billion dollar profit last year

And they only have 73,000 employees.

How come people only want to talk about retailers when it comes to unionization?

Retailers don't make shit for profits especially if one excludes walmart. Walgreens for example made not quite 2.5 cents for every dollar through the register. Grocery stores like kroger and safeway make about 1.5 cents for every dollar in sales.

And yet all anyone talks about is unionizing retail. What about cisco, microsoft, apple, colgate palmolive, kellogs, unilever etc!!!!

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Response to Mosby (Reply #71)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 05:59 PM

73. Not Talking About Unions

That particular info graphic was not talking about unions. It was also not talking about the retailers you listed. It was specifically about Wal-Mart. It was saying that Wal-Mart could pay its workers and extra $5,000 and still make large profits.

Also, a number of people in general and specifically on this website have been very critical of Apple's decision to pay its foreign workers low wages. Some people have gone as far as to ask Apple to move its production back to the United States where it pays its workers more money.

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Response to erpowers (Reply #73)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 06:39 PM

78. Then why is there an obsession about retail?

show me a DU thread about why apple, microsoft, cisco, unilever, colgate, ect, are not paying their employees more.

Here is a list of the top 50 manufacturers, how come no one is writing national articles about the shit they pay?


http://www.industryweek.com/resources/iw50best/2012

Seroiusly WTF? Why the fuck are people obsessed with retailers?






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Response to Mosby (Reply #78)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 07:26 PM

82. Here's One

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002157362

This is a thread about Apple.

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Response to erpowers (Reply #82)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:15 PM

102. Because they hate Walmart.

What they don't realize, is that if they paid their employees more, then prices would also rise. And the same employees that shop there wouldn't end up making anything.

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Response to aptal (Reply #102)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:15 PM

127. Right, Walmart should cut their wages to zero so Walmart can lower their prices and make them better

off.

"What they don't realize, is that if they paid their employees more, then prices would also rise. And the same employees that shop there wouldn't end up making anything."

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Response to aptal (Reply #102)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 07:45 AM

128. That Is Not Accurate

It has been pointed out in the info graphic in this post and in other places that Wal-Mart could increase its employee's wages enough to get this out of poverty without taking away the company's profits. Yes, the company's profits would be reduced, but it would still be a extremely profitable company. So, Wal-Mart would not be forced to increase its prices to remain profitable.

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Response to erpowers (Reply #128)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 10:32 PM

130. It would probably also increase inflation

and prices. Maybe, I am not an economic specialist.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 05:20 PM

72. These are the reasons I have not set foot in a Walmart since

2009.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 06:03 PM

74. But, PROFITS are AMERICAN! Wur nummer wun!

 

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 06:16 PM

75. Outstanding !!! - K & R !!!






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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 06:34 PM

77. So why isn't there a movement to start tipping Walmart employees?

 

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Response to dkf (Reply #77)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:59 PM

107. I'm guessing because they aren't allowed to take it.

When I worked retail for a large chain we were told to not accept tips, that it could cost us our job.

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Response to dkf (Reply #77)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 09:41 AM

113. Yeah, that would fix everything...

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Response to Hissyspit (Reply #113)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:06 PM

121. It keeps Walmart low cost for those who can't afford it yet gives an avenue for those who can afford

 

It to being wages up.

Why wouldn't that work for all low wage occupations?

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 07:06 PM

79. Elected Democrats have a plan to fix this. Here it is:

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 07:19 PM

81. That is brilliant

Really, really good.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 07:41 PM

84. Walmart pays Faith shit wages because Faith accepts it.

Faith needs to get her ass organized and exercise some direct action.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 07:59 PM

86. This is great! K&R!

So simple, even a Republican can understand it.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 08:07 PM

88. Shared!

EXCELLENT!

Thank you for posting this, Playinghardball!

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 08:19 PM

89. Wish I had BILLIONS and BILLIONS of recs to give this. The Waltons are welfare queens (and kings.)

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 08:19 PM

90. Walmart reflects your average human character, though.

Just to stir things up a little. Your average small business does not pay any better.

Many references are made to "Walmart can afford" this or that. Yeah they can, but so can many small businesses who treat their employees no better.

I agree there should be laws to force employers like Walmart to treat employees better. But I'm also concerned about the fact that your average human does not give a @#$ about other humans. The way our economy works is, for most people, the second you start helping others, is the moment you start becoming impoverished.

Our economy has been based on greed for a long time.

So changing things is not just about Walmart.

"It's a good place to start"? Yeah maybe.

But the infographic should also point out that if Faith were a Walton, she might not treat her employees any better because she is human and her brain is wired that way.

I WANT things to change, but I think that in order to do so we must be honest about how our species operates. It certainly does not function through care and concern for others.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 09:26 PM

93. O.K., I just read a book!

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 09:44 PM

95. The real terrorists on this planet are corporate terrorists.

The Waltons, the Kochs, all these thieving assholes. We need to tip the scales here.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 09:52 PM

96. THAT was BRILLIANT. O.M. G.

Perfect. Thank you for posting that.
If we could get that on Facebook and Twitter, we might be able to overtake those monsters at Walmart.

Go. Do It.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:13 PM

97. reply to find later

great graphic!

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:53 PM

100. Brilliant, Playinghardball, simply brilliant!

A lot of people are going to end up seeing this. You should be proud.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:33 AM

108. Sickening

What greedy pigs. I haven't shopped there in years either, I refuse to do it.

I don't know how the Waltons can look at themselves in the mirror. If there is an afterlife I hope they pay dearly for their sins on earth.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:50 AM

109. K&R

 

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:08 AM

114. I'VE GOT IT! FAITH JUST NEEDS TO HIRE A GOOD TEAM OF LOBBIESTS AND MAKE LOTS OF CONTRIBUTION$

To lots of Pols...wait, she's broke, shit.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:11 AM

115. There is a simple sure fire solution: UNIONIZE and demand fair pay and benefits.

Why are sweat shop allowed to exist? Simply because the workers allow them to exist. The fact is that the workers are in many cases their own worst enemy when the back so-called Right to Work Laws.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:17 AM

116. Ironic

Walmart employees eligible for food stamps probably use much of the government aid to buy essentials at Walmart.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:32 AM

118. Change always starts from a realization from inside and any object in motion tends to stay in motion

After 14 years of boycotting the place they have gotten bigger than ever and the thought of me ever going there personally to buy anything never ever enters my mind. I am thinking it must be secretly run by space aliens who suck the brains out of people when the first enter the store and replace it with one that is programed to make them come back again and again.

My other guess is that people in the US don't care if the store acts immorally or not, they only want cheap prices. That also tells me why republicans and large corporations are keen to keeping fencing rackets from ever getting a foothold, they just hate any competition

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:34 AM

119. the graphic is not effective marketing

 

you have to target your message to an 8th grade level.

more than 3 points and you've lost 98% of the Uhhhhhmerican public.

i like the message though - but needs to be sharpened some more.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:49 AM

120. Former WalMart CEO Lee Scott said, regarding the Employee Free Choice Act:

"We like driving the car and we're not going to give the steering wheel to anybody but us.”

And now you know WHY WalMart promotes a universal "winner take everything" corporate culture that pigs like Ronald Reagan, Al Dunlap and Jack Welch introduced in the 1980s.

K & R.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:07 PM

123. #FiveDollarDay

 

I think that everyone, including myself until watching a documentary last night, completely forgot the lessons learned from Henry Ford. I he was a terrible man in many ways, but he understood better than probably anyone in history how to make industry work.

Go and learn the lessons of his Five Dollar Day, that should be the liberal rallying cry. He proved from 1914 to 1916 that by doubling a workers wage you would increase productivity and he doubled his profits from 30 million to 60 million.

Was his plan perfect, no, he relied heavily on social engineering, but did it show the way for today's corporations how it can be very good for their bottom line to increase their wages and benefits, absolutely.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:12 PM

126. Pretty damn good example of communicating .....

 

We could all learn from that.

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