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Tue Jan 29, 2013, 09:37 AM

Wow, A Freeper Sees The Light: "I just can't handle it anymore."

It is time. My opus
Self | 1-28-2013 | melas
Posted on 1/28/2013 8:10:56 PM by Melas

While the title says it all, I thought a goodbye was in order.

While I've been a FReeper for well over a decade, I must declare that it is time to part ways. While I have the greatest respect for a great many of you, the days where I can in good conscience remain silent about the issues that set me apart from the rest of FReeperdom have past. For clarity, or perhaps catharsis, I'm not entirely certain which, I'll lay them out on the table an call the ZOT™ down upon myself.

The racism: I just can't handle it anymore. FR has become increasingly racist since President Obama took office, and enforcement has dropped. Now, not a single crime can be reported with an "amish" comment, and I've yet to see a post express embarrassment or shame when lo and behold sometimes the perpetrators turned out to be lily white.

Homosexuality: FR is on the wrong side of history on this one, and I'll just leave it at that.

Mostly though, it's the hate. More and more posts reference violent solutions to political disagreements. Some subtly couched, others make no pretense. I wouldn't be surprised at all if I read in the morning paper that a FReeper murdered a federal bureaucrat or a federal judge.

I've learned so much, from so many of you, and for that I'm grateful. I genuinely and truly wish all of you well, and sincerely hope you all live out the rest of your lives in happiness.

Melas


Of course, the comments are classic Freep.
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2982931/posts
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/01/29/1182981/-Freerepublic-gets-a-GBCW-post

141 replies, 11243 views

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Arrow 141 replies Author Time Post
Reply Wow, A Freeper Sees The Light: "I just can't handle it anymore." (Original post)
kpete Jan 2013 OP
sadbear Jan 2013 #1
Wednesdays Jan 2013 #10
sadbear Jan 2013 #18
TheManInTheMac Jan 2013 #42
ecstatic Jan 2013 #39
Marr Jan 2013 #85
Demeter Jan 2013 #56
Ter Jan 2013 #59
adieu Jan 2013 #78
sinkingfeeling Jan 2013 #2
Scuba Jan 2013 #9
Marrah_G Jan 2013 #15
patrice Jan 2013 #104
TalkingDog Jan 2013 #16
UnrepentantLiberal Jan 2013 #45
progressoid Jan 2013 #71
MoonchildCA Jan 2013 #88
Cali_Democrat Jan 2013 #89
REP Jan 2013 #90
patrice Jan 2013 #105
Lady Freedom Returns Jan 2013 #113
MissMillie Jan 2013 #115
Kennah Jan 2013 #135
pamela Jan 2013 #48
SoCalNative Jan 2013 #99
Egalitarian Thug Jan 2013 #3
BeyondGeography Jan 2013 #4
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #6
Eleanors38 Jan 2013 #22
ronnie624 Jan 2013 #38
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #41
ronnie624 Jan 2013 #49
crim son Jan 2013 #54
ronnie624 Jan 2013 #67
kestrel91316 Jan 2013 #91
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #94
BeyondGeography Jan 2013 #43
AlbertCat Jan 2013 #46
patrice Jan 2013 #107
Romulox Jan 2013 #5
Fumesucker Jan 2013 #8
Romulox Jan 2013 #26
Fumesucker Jan 2013 #50
Romulox Jan 2013 #101
patrice Jan 2013 #108
Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #136
rurallib Jan 2013 #7
Squinch Jan 2013 #126
brucefan Jan 2013 #11
brucefan Jan 2013 #12
TalkingDog Jan 2013 #17
leftyohiolib Jan 2013 #19
MicaelS Jan 2013 #72
JHB Jan 2013 #77
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #13
Romulus Quirinus Jan 2013 #20
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #29
Romulus Quirinus Jan 2013 #33
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #35
Romulus Quirinus Jan 2013 #37
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #40
Romulus Quirinus Jan 2013 #44
UnrepentantLiberal Jan 2013 #92
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #95
UnrepentantLiberal Jan 2013 #96
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #97
patrice Jan 2013 #110
UnrepentantLiberal Jan 2013 #111
patrice Jan 2013 #114
UnrepentantLiberal Jan 2013 #118
patrice Jan 2013 #120
UnrepentantLiberal Jan 2013 #123
patrice Jan 2013 #125
Jim Lane Jan 2013 #130
patrice Jan 2013 #133
Jim Lane Jan 2013 #134
progressoid Jan 2013 #75
LanternWaste Jan 2013 #24
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #27
Rex Jan 2013 #138
Politicub Jan 2013 #55
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #63
Politicub Jan 2013 #64
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #66
Politicub Jan 2013 #73
idwiyo Jan 2013 #100
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #102
idwiyo Jan 2013 #103
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #106
idwiyo Jan 2013 #109
patrice Jan 2013 #112
patrice Jan 2013 #119
patrice Jan 2013 #116
patrice Jan 2013 #121
Politicub Jan 2013 #124
patrice Jan 2013 #127
catbyte Jan 2013 #61
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #65
catbyte Jan 2013 #84
dkf Jan 2013 #79
patrice Jan 2013 #122
Marr Jan 2013 #87
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #93
Rex Jan 2013 #140
patrice Jan 2013 #117
Rex Jan 2013 #139
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #141
Scuba Jan 2013 #14
reformist2 Jan 2013 #21
Courtesy Flush Jan 2013 #23
farminator3000 Jan 2013 #25
reformist2 Jan 2013 #28
Arkana Jan 2013 #60
RKP5637 Jan 2013 #30
chemp Jan 2013 #31
derby378 Jan 2013 #32
broadcaster75201 Jan 2013 #70
reformist2 Jan 2013 #74
derby378 Jan 2013 #80
randome Jan 2013 #34
kpete Jan 2013 #47
NewJeffCT Jan 2013 #36
snort Jan 2013 #51
cecilfirefox Jan 2013 #52
Politicub Jan 2013 #53
cordelia Jan 2013 #83
Politicub Jan 2013 #86
L0oniX Jan 2013 #57
Cary Jan 2013 #58
TwilightGardener Jan 2013 #62
AsahinaKimi Jan 2013 #68
broadcaster75201 Jan 2013 #69
Ian_rd Jan 2013 #76
riqster Jan 2013 #81
donco Jan 2013 #82
Dragonbreathp9d Jan 2013 #98
Cali_Democrat Jan 2013 #132
Kalidurga Jan 2013 #128
Jim Lane Jan 2013 #129
WillyT Jan 2013 #131
NNN0LHI Jan 2013 #137

Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 09:41 AM

1. Dumbass.

It took him/her over a decade to figure out that right-wing ideology is about nothing other than hate? Damn, that cognitive dissonance is some strong stuff.

Congratulations, I guess.

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Response to sadbear (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:03 AM

10. But you gotta admit

They've cranked it up a few notches over the past month or so.

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Response to Wednesdays (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:09 AM

18. Yeah, I guess things were probably a little less racist pre-Obama.

But I suspect that's the only real change.

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Response to Wednesdays (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:05 AM

42. Really they've cranked it up several notches over the last 4 years.

I am surprised that it took this long for this one to "see the light." I've followed that site for years and I think they've run off everyone who can form a cohesive argument (or a sentence more than three words, for that matter).

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Response to sadbear (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:00 AM

39. Repugs only change when their own personal circumstances change

And sometimes that's still not enough to change their minds. Maybe that poster is now the grandparent or aunt/uncle of an interracial child and the cognitive dissonance (which was absent before) finally kicked in.

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #39)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:02 PM

85. I would bet $100 that you're right.

That's been my experience as well-- over and over, on many different subjects. The instant the right wing position is less convenient for them personally, they have an epiphany.

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Response to sadbear (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:34 AM

56. Slow Learner

but remember, in the land of the blind, the one-eyed is crucified....

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Response to sadbear (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:40 AM

59. It took me a while too

 

I was a Dole boy in 1996 when I first got into politics.

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Response to Ter (Reply #59)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:28 PM

78. That's all right

Dole is more liberal than Obama. Certainly in the civil liberties space.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 09:41 AM

2. I didn't understand the 'amish' comment, but I don't speak FReeper.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:03 AM

9. I inferred it's code for "n****r". If someone can disabuse me, please do.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:05 AM

15. Maybe some weird reasoning like:

Amish are mostly white, Amish have low incidences of violence, so in their fucked up minds maybe that's their proof that being white makes you less violent?

Remember these are folks who worship this:

In proving that their is a God, "See, the water, the tide comes in and it goes out, Mr. Silverman. It always comes in, and always goes out. You can't explain that. ", was a rational and logical argument.

They aren't the sharpest tools in the shed.

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #15)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:28 PM

104. I think that's close & add Amish are kind of like Libertarians in their "self sufficient" culture.nt

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:07 AM

16. Their version of "pearl clutching" or "politically correct"

I'm not quite sure what "Amish" has to do with it but, like you, I don't speak the language and I have no desire to muck around in their heads to find out.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:08 AM

45. A quick search and I found a thread that explains it all.

 

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Reply #45)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:10 PM

71. Wow

That thread is just...

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Reply #45)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:16 PM

88. Wow! I wish I hadn't read that.

It's nauseating.

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Reply #45)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:23 PM

89. It's like Stormfront over there

Keep in mind these are mainstream Republicans. The kind you would see at a Romney rally. I've visited FR occasionally over the years, but I don't remember them being this racist. Clearly Obama's election has brought it out for the world to see.

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Reply #45)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:29 PM

90. As I suspected:

To: oh8eleven
Hmmm, Amish at it again?
Why must we resort to euphemisms here on FREE Republic? The codeword Amish means black and everyone who's been here for more than a day knows it. Really, can we not call a spade a spade? This site stands for freedom, liberty and doesn't need to hide behind a thin veneer of political correctness. This isn't directed at you, oh8eleven, since the practice is widespread. Instead, I'd like to see a plain, honest treatment of these riots and crimes. In this case, as with many other, the initiators are black, not Amish, Mennonites, British, Germans, Irish, Slavs, Swedes or any number of other races/ethnic categories.

The "document to which we may not link" here on FR makes it clear that blacks commit these and other crimes in numbers far exceeding their percentage of the population. The "Amish" phraseology was slightly amusing at one time. But, in my opinion, a forthright identification of the problem is in order. I, for one, will use the word black when applicable to incidents such as these. And when it's whites committing such acts, they likewise will be called out in my posts.

13 posted on January 10, 2013, 4:03:40 PM PST by re_nortex (DP...that's what I like about Texas.)

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Response to REP (Reply #90)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:32 PM

105. Thanks very much! for this explanation for those of us who don't give FR our clicks.

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Reply #45)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:25 PM

113. Post 13 spells it out! n/t

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Reply #45)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:30 PM

115. "Chimping out"

nice. ( /sarcasm )

Imagine anyone talking about other human beings that way.

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Reply #45)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 02:44 AM

135. Wow! I mean, just, wow.

The truly amazing thing is that some appear to actually believe they are being slick with their euphemisms that are as transparent as window glass.

I can only conclude that Freepers believe everyone else is as stupid as Freepers show themselves to be. More than a bit ironic.

Perhaps Freepers are from Traal.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:10 AM

48. I was curious about that, too.

I did a search on FR and noticed it is frequently a tag. Some of the threads tagged "amish" we're actually about the Amish but most had nothing to do with them. For example, a thread about "Ebonics" (ugh) was tagged "Amish."

On the second page of that opus thread, a freeper gives this explanation...
“amish” comment

The amish comment was once directed at the crimes or abominations perpetrated by muslims in the name of allah.

Mainly because the press would never name the religion, or name, of the perp.

The term has been hijacked to fill in for inner city thugs.

With this, only, I agree with you.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:00 PM

99. the term "amish"

was first usd over there to replace Muslim, but then they started using it for any non-white person suspected of committng a crime.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 09:41 AM

3. I'm not sure that noticing, after a decade, that FR is a hate site is the same as seeing the light.

 

The writer didn't say he had changed his mind about any RW position, merely that FR had gotten too extreme.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 09:49 AM

4. Give the person some credit

Whomever it is saying goodbye to regular doses of hatred and meanness. There's a place in any room for someone like that.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 09:55 AM

6. You know, it is truly ironic...

... that a poster is leaving Freeperville because of the unbridled hate, and the some of the first reactions here at DU are unbridled hate.

Hello? Is there a mirror in the house?

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #6)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:24 AM

22. Uh-oh. You would have to bring the mirror thingy up.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #6)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:58 AM

38. There is no "unbridled hate" on this thread.

You make this sort of false accusation against DUers, frequently, it seems.

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #38)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:03 AM

41. Nah, not false. You simply disagree.

It happens.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #41)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:14 AM

49. Where is the "unbridled hate" on this thread? n/t

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #49)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:31 AM

54. "Unbridled hate" may be a bit strong

but there is little in the way of kindness. I think that's what was meant by the comment and I agree. Any FReeper who manages to break away from the cult of ignorance deserves a pat on the back and congratulations, not condemnation.

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Response to crim son (Reply #54)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:51 AM

67. Clearly, the individual is still a wingnut.

They haven't broken away. How can anyone "learn so much" from such a nasty, ignorant group of people?

But I don't hate the person, though.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #41)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:35 PM

91. You seem very unhappy with most stuff that goes on at DU. Why do you torture yourself by

staying on?? There have got to be other forums where you'd be happier.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #91)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:38 PM

94. Perhaps.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #6)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:05 AM

43. Yup

Whatever happened to co-existence...

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #6)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:08 AM

46. the first reactions here at DU are unbridled hate.

unbridled hate.

UNBRIDLED! HATE


Examples please..... from the 1st reactions....



And is it as bad as the false equivalencies seen here?

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #6)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:35 PM

107. +1 except for "unbridled hate" which is too strong. I'd say auto-attack instead & it might be part

of an organized effort to drive this board in certain ways and for the benefit of others who are not part of our community here.

Exploitation of this resource by those who have intentions other than those represented in our TOS.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 09:54 AM

5. That's fine. He can post the *exact same stuff* he always posted on FR right here, and just

claim to be an "ex-freeper". Then, even when his hate-posts are uncovered later, it will be the people who complain that have a problem--the "ex" freeper being defended by several of our leading "troll hunters" and all.

Sound good?

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Response to Romulox (Reply #5)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:01 AM

8. It's the "saved sinner" syndrome

Ain't no one more welcome at a fundamentalist church than a sinner who's found Jesus.





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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #8)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:35 AM

26. Usually, the "sinner" has to at least pretend to be singing from the same hymnal. Our "ex" freepers

oftentimes bring their own, it seems.


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Response to Romulox (Reply #26)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:24 AM

50. Same tune, just the lyrics are a bit different

The important thing is to hate the right people, do that and you have an instant religion clique to join.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #50)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:14 PM

101. LOL. This was a local hit here in the D in the '80s.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #50)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:57 PM

108. +++1 Diversity is difficult.

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Response to Romulox (Reply #5)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 03:07 PM

136. Absolutely, and of course the 'ex freeper' had lots of anti gay and anti African American posts

of the most vicious kind, it is always bigotry with them.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 09:56 AM

7. "Leon Trotsky invented racism" WTF

that one is really, really strange even for freepers.

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Response to rurallib (Reply #7)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 05:23 PM

126. Didn't you love that one? Leon Trotsky invented it and racism didn't exist 150 years ago.

I suppose slavery was something other than racist in the FR alternate universe.

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Response to kpete (Original post)


Response to brucefan (Reply #11)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:04 AM

12. What is

"Call the zot down"

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Response to brucefan (Reply #12)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:08 AM

17. Their version of Tombstoned. Banninated.

n/t

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Response to brucefan (Reply #12)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:16 AM

19. i think it's their tombstone

 

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Response to brucefan (Reply #12)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:14 PM

72. "Zot" from the comic strip B.C.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B.C._%28comic_strip%29

http://www.calimquim.com/category/uc-irvine-anteaters/

“Zot!” is the noise an anteater makes when he’s eating…what else…ants!

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Response to brucefan (Reply #12)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:23 PM

77. Banned. Think "blue bolt from the Heavens...

...leaving behind a smoking patch on the ground.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:05 AM

13. The intolerance here at DU is no better, it's just a different flavor.

How do I hate thee? Let me count the ways.


Well, we cannot use Elizabeth Barrett Browning's classic poem of total devotion to build this parody because it has multiple references to God, faith, saints, and the afterlife (she is clearly a sheep, a clown, an idiot). Her spoken devotion to Robert Browning would probably get her scorned at DU for being weak (being a white male at DU is not a good place to be -- we enable rapists, our birthright justifiably makes us akin to the devil, and we are the cause of most bad things).

You get the idea. We have no room to criticize.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #13)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:22 AM

20. It's just so hard being a white guy on the internet!

Let's talk about that instead of whatever it was you were on about lol

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Response to Romulus Quirinus (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:38 AM

29. Hell, it's easy being a white guy all the time.

Just because a bunch of people here hate white men doesn't mean they aren't justified. But hate is hate, and we are no position to turn our noses up at the Freepers.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #29)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:46 AM

33. Feel free to disagree, but

I tend to disagree with the analysis of traditional Abrahamic religion; not all sins are equal.

A woman feeling put-upon by white guys is not the same as a full on klansman looking to find a new e-hangout other than Stormfront.

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Response to Romulus Quirinus (Reply #33)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:49 AM

35. So, their hate is worse than our hate? Okay. Maybe that makes us feel better.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #35)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:53 AM

37. I've never tried to stop a black guy from voting.

Nor have I ever told some one they're going to hell, nor have I ever laughed when a gay man got beaten for being gay. I've never asserted that poor people get what they deserve because they've done something to anger God. I've never posted links to reskinned versions of Doom where you shoot illegal immigrants.

So, yeah, I think I'm better than them, and I'll be sure to do a little dance the day those shitheads can't afford to feed the hamster that powers that dump. I'll feel real nice about it.

You feel differently?

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Response to Romulus Quirinus (Reply #37)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:02 AM

40. On average, they are worse than us. Their worst are worse than ours.

But, we have some real bad eggs here who are seething in hatred. Would they act out in some leftwing version of the rightwing stuff you listed? I doubt it.

So, yeah, I guess I agree.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #40)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:06 AM

44. That's all I wanted to hear. :) nt

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #40)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:36 PM

92. Care to post some examples of DU hate that is equivalent to Freeper hate?

 

...I didn't think so.

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Reply #92)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:39 PM

95. Did you read this subthread?

I didn't think so.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #95)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:42 PM

96. OK, it's hate because you say so.

 

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Reply #96)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:54 PM

97. I will not read it for you. I gave two examples in this subthread.

Quit being so damned lazy. If you are going to attempt to insult me, put a bullet in the gun.

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Reply #92)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:15 PM

110. Someone here recently seriously espoused & next defended GENOCIDE against the South

after the Civil War.

I cited what Howard Zinn tells us about the 19th century and it didn't matter one bit to the DU -er who posted that hate.

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Response to patrice (Reply #110)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:17 PM

111. One guy did.

 

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Reply #111)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:28 PM

114. That sort of thing is extremely powerful, one is enough & it was one who feels at home here.

And, yes, it was a judgement call on my part not to Alert, but I wanted other people to see the post.

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Response to patrice (Reply #114)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:38 PM

118. Feels at home here?

 

Do you have a link to the post?

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Response to patrice (Reply #120)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 04:21 PM

123. You have a point that the South does get insulted on this forum.

 

But then you lost me when you said the Civil War was more about economics than slavery. That's conservative Southerners rewriting history. And no, I don't care to debate it.

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Reply #123)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 05:10 PM

125. from Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States, Chapter 10, TTE, essentially about

the 19th century in the USA: how class conflict created out of economic advantages encoded into the creation of corporations and banking, and also into the nature of contract law, resulted in a middle-class that served and protected that whole structure, even though slavery and bonded servitude were NOT unknown in the North (where most recent immigrants were treated just a hair less badly than those of African descent), which development of the middle-class resulted in political parties being developed, which political parties hid the class conflict behind other issues, and turned the lowest class, which was a majority of the South's aristocratic culture, against itself especially through racism.

I have always heard allusions to the economic issues that drove President Lincoln and I understand the recent Daniel Day Lewis movie about Lincoln (which I haven't seen yet) includes this in terms of how the union was/is primarily an economic entity with slavery & bonded servitude crossing all state-lines and that fact served that (class based) economic entity. None of which was actually remedied by the Reconstruction, which actually further exacerbated the conditions, social & economic injustice, that caused the Civil War in the first place.

I suppose some people do see that all as more of a chicken-or-the-egg question, but I agree with Howard Zinn in that it isn't a chicken-or-the-egg question. The basic drivers of everything about the USA are economic and other stuff is used to obscure and distract from that fact.

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Response to patrice (Reply #125)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 06:51 PM

130. Pardon my ignorance, but what is "TTE"? (n/t)

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Response to Jim Lane (Reply #130)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 07:32 PM

133. To The Effect, indicating kind of a synopsis or paraphrase.

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Response to patrice (Reply #133)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 07:47 PM

134. Thanks! acronymfinder.com whiffed on it. (n/t)

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Response to Romulus Quirinus (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:21 PM

75. Y'all don't know what it's like. Being male, middle class and white...

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #13)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:30 AM

24. I've had zero problems in that regard

"being a white male at DU is not a good place to be -- we enable rapists, our birthright justifiably makes us akin to the devil, and we are the cause of most bad things..."

I've had zero problems in that regard. I imagine at the end of the day, the DU experience is often whatever better validates our own martyrdom.

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #24)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:36 AM

27. Martydom. I suppose your post is an example of DU's tolerance.

Your lack of awareness of clear and unmistakable anti-white male attitudes here does not mean they don't exist. I suppose you are also unaware of a cluster of Christian hating DUers as well? Or anti-semites? I am neither Christian nor Jewish, so there goes your martyrdom bullshit.

Now, spend a few minutes and construct another demonstration of your ignorance. Can't wait.

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #24)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 04:43 PM

138. Same here.

Guess we need to start hating ourselves a little more?

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #13)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:32 AM

55. I'm over the false equivalency. Du is NOTHING like free republic

And it's offensive to imply that we have anything in common.

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Response to Politicub (Reply #55)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:41 AM

63. Oh, my! Taking offense is not consistent with being "over the false equivalency."

Our board is formatted far better than Freeperville.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #63)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:45 AM

64. I completely disagree with you but why don't you share some examples?

I'm not seeing the same intolerance you are.

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Response to Politicub (Reply #64)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:51 AM

66. Sure!

1. Fierce anti-Christian groups here at DU that express hatred toward Christians. (Actually, they hate all religions; there are simply more Christian targets here)
2. Anti-semitism.
3. No tolerance for differences of opinion about gay rights (which I fully support).
4. Totally, unbending despise and intolerance of the right wing. We have people here who will not eat at the same table as a conservative.

There's quite a list I haven't tackled.

Oddly enough, I would also suggest that our gun fanatics are every bit as abusive as the Freepers.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #66)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:15 PM

73. I agree we don't have tolerance for intolerance about gays

While there may be two sides to every issue, one side can be completely wrong. Which is the case for people fighting the tide of history when it comes to gay civil rights.

I'll give you a point on the gun issue. I don't know if we'll ever be able to reach a middle ground on that one. I got pretty emotional about it on the day Newtown happened and didn't have much tolerance for gun extremism. Still don't, but I try to be civil about it.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #66)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:07 PM

100. Can you please elaborate on one of your statements, quoted below:

3. No tolerance for differences of opinion about gay rights (which I fully support).


What "differences of opinion" that are not tolerated are you talking about?

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Response to idwiyo (Reply #100)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:16 PM

102. Pretty simple:

Openly opposing gay marriage would get you in hot water around here.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #102)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:27 PM

103. Can you please explain why it shouldn't be so.

I can't imagine any one here openly advocating against interracial marriage without getting PPRed.
Why should it be different when it comes to the marriage between people of the same gender?

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Response to idwiyo (Reply #103)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:32 PM

106. I really don't understand where you are taking this.

If I came out advocating some position that DU collectively finds abhorrent, I would be flamed endlessly until being mercifully expunged. I do not justify taking positions counter to everything DU stands for nor am I harping against the treatment of those who do.

You asked me for an example, and I gave you one.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #106)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:09 PM

109. I was trying to understand why you think it was a good example.

Marriage, be it heterosexual, interracial or between people of the same gender is a union between consenting adults, and is a basic human right IMHO. I cannot see a justification for any difference in opinion on this matter.

One might be against marriage for everyone, and in favour of civil unions only. I was trying to figure if you hold a similar belief. Don't see anything wrong with this belief.

One might be against allowing people of the same gender to marry because of their religious beliefs.
That's bigotry and religion is no excuse for it. These people rightfully will have their arse kicked here on DU and should be PPRed on the spot.

On the other hand I would like to know why you think that intolerance of bigotry is equivalent of hatred expressed by denizens of FR against various issues they find abhorrent.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #66)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:24 PM

112. I'm struck by how often we see "argument from authority" here, a distinctly fascistic inclination.

I keep seeing, TTE, "What is a peon like you doing saying/thinking __________________ " and even "I work for a university, so what I think is better than what someone else thinks."

wow.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #66)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:46 PM

119. You leftt out: constructing rational hypotheses for NDAA 2011 and/or the use of drones & that

would be hypotheses other than Obama is an evil man doing the bidding of other evil men. Obama lies all of the time about everything having to do with the NDAA & drones and everything that anyone else says about any of that, including dictators on the other side of the world, is the whole truth and nothing but the truth all of the time.

And, NO, I refuse to change my avatar here, BECAUSE I HAVE thought all of this through as fully and honestly as I can, so I feel like it's okay for me to call on others to do the same, but . . . .

DO watch out if you make that effort around Hedges & Greenwald's rabid internet critters.

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Response to Politicub (Reply #64)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:31 PM

116. Perhaps that is because we all "agree" about LGBT Civil Rights, so other issues are being used as

wedges?

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Response to Politicub (Reply #64)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 04:14 PM

121. I think it is similar in that it functions primarily on auto-dichotomies that may or may not

be true (think of what a horror it is around here to talk about "third" ((as in dialectical)) anything!!) & it appears to resist analyses of those dichotomous oversimplifications, which IS understandable, except that resistance repeats some very specific kinds of insults that cast ALL other positions in the diminutive role and, hence, fail to address them objectively, all of which reeeeeeeks of authoritarian fundamentalism.

I think there are people who do this sort of thing on purpose and others who also just get pulled into it and then still others who won't engage at all, or run from it, because they don't want to get used by other actors in a milieu.

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Response to patrice (Reply #121)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 04:45 PM

124. I wish forums were conducive to honest, thoughtful discussion

I admit that I'm part of the problem because I mentally don my flame retardant underpants in advance since arguments devolve into name calling and insults fairly quickly.

I expect and anticipate the vitriol. It's turned into a norm, but it's not constructive for me to reward negative normative behaviors.

Good food for thought in your post.

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Response to Politicub (Reply #124)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 05:24 PM

127. Oh! I know I do it too! . . . partly because I'm so good at it that it "feels good", partly because

I really am just offering kind of a rough-edged jest, and partly because there IS crap going on around here and I very much do not like the possibility of being USED by crap-mongers of ANY stripe.

I don't do the mean stuff very often, but, like you, I have this expectation of vitriol and that frustrates me, because I'm usually just trying to figure things out, so it isn't really necessary for some to just attack and insult, first thing, right off, without ANY questions, since I'm frequently just exploring anyway. And even if it isn't exploring and I do hold a specific position in, of, and for itself, I do not deny almost anyone else, with certain exceptions for hate and violence, the right to do the same. In fact, I think my right is predicated on their right and their right is predicated on mine, problem is we almost never get that clear with one another in this environment.

Thanks for your honest and rational input and for your "ear", Politicub!

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #13)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:40 AM

61. So are you saying that we should value racists, misogynists, & homophobes? In essence, to

tolerate intolerance? I'm sorry, but I can't do that. If fighting against hatred is wrong, what are we supposed to do? I'm also sorry you feel persecuted for being a White male--seriously. You can't help that any more than I can help being born an Ojibway woman. I can't believe you actually think the hatred spewed over there is legitimate, or am I misreading you?

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Response to catbyte (Reply #61)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:46 AM

65. Yes, you are misreading me completely. And, I am guessing it's intentional.

Try again?

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #65)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:57 PM

84. Wow. In addition to having a persecution complex, you're now being judgemental. Charming.

Have a nice day.

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Response to catbyte (Reply #61)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:31 PM

79. There's nothing good about disliking a person because they are a white male either.

 

Or because they have money.

Some are the flip side of Freepers, but maybe less scary sounding.

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Response to dkf (Reply #79)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 04:20 PM

122. +1 Meet the "new" boss, same as the old boss, because you'd better tow the meme or get butt kicked.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #13)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:08 PM

87. You keep saying that, but you refuse to back it up.

I find that interesting.

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Response to Marr (Reply #87)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:37 PM

93. I have backed it up.

I am under no obligation to do so multiple times per thread.

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Response to Marr (Reply #87)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 04:46 PM

140. They say we are the same as freepers...yup got it!

Said ain't it? Why would someone post here that is so upset with the posting environment?

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #13)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:33 PM

117. Agreed! strongly!

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #13)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 04:45 PM

139. Wrong.

Thanks for playing but you lose. Nice grasping at straws. I give it a 9.5.

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Response to Rex (Reply #139)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 04:53 PM

141. Correct.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:05 AM

14. Yes, it took him a long time, but ...

... once someone had made up their mind, it's infinitely more difficult to get them to see another side than it is if they have no opinion. This is why it's a waste of breath to try to reason with Fox sheeple.

He should be commended for his catharsis; it's likely he will more frequently question his opinions in the future.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:23 AM

21. Countdown to Freepers accusing him of being an imposter... Or better yet, a sleeper cell.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:25 AM

23. "We are angry. We tried being friendly and smiling and getting along with leftists."

Where was I that day?

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:35 AM

25. so their stupidity can't completely crush all remnants of consciense from people with brains

that's good news!

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/22/opinion/kozachik-gun-buyback/index.html

Editor's note: Steve Kozachik is vice mayor and a member of the Tucson City Council

But on the periphery of my buyback, and on the periphery of rational discourse, was a group of gun and NRA enthusiasts holding a "cash for guns" firearms flea market. They held it on the boundary of the police department parking lot in which my buyback was taking place.

In Arizona, it is legal for a person to walk up to another on a street corner, hand him cash for a firearm and simply walk off with it, with no need for a background check into his psychological or criminal history. That was exactly what happened with those who came to my buyback to "score some deals" on weapons by outbidding the gift cards I was offering.

I was a Republican at the time, but less than one week after the buyback, I chose to switch parties. I believe there is a centrist element among the rank and file in the GOP, but the leadership is led by the far right and openly beholden to the NRA and the gun lobby. It is that rigid ideology that is driving the party into irrelevancy. The overreaction to the gun buyback made it clear that, in Tucson at least, the Republican Party is out of touch with the values of the community.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:37 AM

28. Would most of you also have zero sympathy for someone who escaped from a cult?

Because that what extreme conservatism has become - a brainwashing, mind-controlling cult.

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Response to reformist2 (Reply #28)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:40 AM

60. I applaud this guy for having a David Brock-esque awakening.

Only wish there were more like him. I'd be a fool if I thought he was going to realize that all of conservatism is complete horseshit, but at least he's trying to "get clean", so to speak.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:42 AM

30. It takes a special deranged person IMO to survive in that sea of negativity, hostility and

it's sooo depressing from my perspective.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:43 AM

31. So I went swimming into the darkness, and all I can say is... "Wow"

>>FYI, the concept of “racism”, which you should well know did not exist 150 years ago, and had to be invented, and it’s not something like a lightbulb that had to be invented, that concept is said to have been invented by none other than Leon Trotsky. It’s caught on, achieved its propagandistic purposes to the point where you and the Communists can sing Kumbaya together about it, even though it is something doesn’t exist, just like, say, global warming. Look up ethnocentrism, and tell us in what human culture, at what point in history, it did not appear.

Good luck in the church of anti-Racism!>>

>>I have to laugh at this, given what the other side has done to George Zimmerman down in Florida. And I bet nary a beep from you huh
Don’t forget, Melas, these were the same open minded types who gave a standing ovation to the Simpson verdict
Oh yeah, and then there’s that other “protected class” who only started the spread of a deadly disease amongst millions around world, which includes infants, children, hemophiliacs, wives, medical personnel . .well, you get that picture surely>>

>>i don’t remember a racist elected as President in my lifetime, until 2008 and reelected in 2012.
he’s declared open WAR upon his own American citizens.>>

I can go no deeper.
Need a deep tissue scrub, and to sanitize my computer...

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:45 AM

32. I left the GOP for good when I saw them go after Clinton over Monica Lewinsky

That was the ideal time to leave, especially before the rise of George W. Bush.

Of course, there are a few around here who think I should leave the Democrats over my stance on gun control. They can't have it both ways.

This guy's departure from FReeperdom is way too late. But at least he's out. Maybe he should give himself a few years away from politics to catch his breath and gain some perspective.

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Response to derby378 (Reply #32)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:04 PM

70. Same, and I worked on the Nixon campaign way back in the day

As my Mother used to say, if you don't become more Liberal the older you get then you have no soul.

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Response to derby378 (Reply #32)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:15 PM

74. That's funny, that was the last straw for me as well.


I was already drifting away in the 90s, but it was the impeachment that proved to me that the GOP had lost any veneer of class or decency that it used to have.

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Response to reformist2 (Reply #74)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:33 PM

80. Salud!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:48 AM

34. Someone quoted his profile in the comments. I like it.

Profile: “ My first allegiance is to the truth, not ideology or politics. If the truth was that Joseph Stalin was kind to kittens, I would not let a lie to the contrary stand just because he was Joseph Stalin. If Abraham Lincoln fried ants with a magnifying glass, I would not suppress the truth because he was Abraham Lincoln. Reputations, legacies, causes, ideologies and religions all have to stand in the light of the facts. Anyone who would play fast and loose with the truth in the name of any of the above is not to be trusted.”

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Response to randome (Reply #34)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:10 AM

47. fascinating...

peace, kp

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:52 AM

36. Every time I think of Freepers & Obama

I keep being reminded of that scene from "Lethal Weapon 2" where Joe Pesci goes into the South African embassy and asks the man at the desk to dissuade his friend from emigrating to South Africa. The man, assuming Pesci's friend is also white like Pesci, assures him that it's perfectly fine to emigrate to South Africa - only it's revealed the friend is Danny Glover... and, the South African man is obviously stunned and starts stumbling and goes, "but, but, you're blek." (And, then Glover starts a righteous rant about "one man, one vote" and Pesci repeats that, and it ends with Glover & Pesci being tossed out by security as they say, "Free South Africa you dumb son of a bitch!" to a cheering crowd of protestors.)

I keep thinking of Freepers and Obama and that South African guy going "but, but he's blek" about Obama instead of Danny Glover, and just still being stunned that we have a president that's not 100% white male, and that he got re-elected.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:25 AM

51. We're so much alike,

I live in trons. So he has learned himself plenty? How much education does kissing 1% ass require?

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:30 AM

52. The conservative movement would change, at some point, but it's going to be awhile... nt

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:31 AM

53. The site has become a haven for white supremacists, homophobes and separatists

Last edited Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:07 PM - Edit history (1)

It's right up there with the worst of the worst on the Southern Poverty Law Center's list of hate groups. And I'm not using hyperbole.

Before Obama took office, you could surf over and get a laugh at the lunacy. But now the site is a clearinghouse that brings out the worst in people.

It's pretty sad that the mouth breathing wing of the GOP is a mirror of the attitude on display at the site.

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Response to Politicub (Reply #53)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:55 PM

83. Sounds just like another site that comes immediately to mind,

to be frank.

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Response to cordelia (Reply #83)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:08 PM

86. Like a certain political party, too

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:35 AM

57. We can thank Rmoney for helping to purify and purge FR.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:36 AM

58. Their hatred rots them from the inside out. n/t

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:41 AM

62. Yeah, I saw that. A long-time Freeper, too. Good on him.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:56 AM

68. One down...

many more to go!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:58 AM

69. Remember the days when FR ROUTINELY had 50k replies to a post?

Now if it hits 75 it's a lot. Seriously, how many are left in their little band? And I wonder how many Libs "play" a Freeper over there?

Oh well. Irrelevancy is a bitch.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:21 PM

76. Everyone should click over to the Freeper thread linked in the OP and read the responses.

There you'll see the base of the Republican Party undisguised, unfiltered, and honest, and the very people the Republican Party leadership both rely on for loyal votes and despise at the same time for their deeply ignorant and hysterical nature.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:35 PM

81. A small step in the right direction

...is still a step in the right direction. Crapping on the guy does not encourage further steps, which might be larger ones.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:38 PM

82. Just goes to

show what can happen when radicals take over a party/forum/whatever.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:57 PM

98. "Racism was invented 150 years ago by Trotsky"

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Response to Dragonbreathp9d (Reply #98)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 07:04 PM

132. You didn't know? Trotsky DID invent racism

before he was born

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 05:50 PM

128. I would love to know what the tipping point was...

I was a moderate. That changed after Obama was elected the first time and I saw all the racists crawl out of the woodwork. So, I have run as far left as I possibly can. No more middle ground for me, supporting civil unions rather than gay marriage. Being for choice yet believing abortion should be more regulated, done with that. Being fiscally conservative, done with that too, when I found out that what they really mean is more bombs but, less bread for children. So, anyway I wonder if the tipping point was similar to mine.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 06:35 PM

129. My favorite response is #28.

"Good Luck trying to find a better site for keeping up on issues."

Somehow I think that Melas will be able to cope with that challenge.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 06:51 PM

131. Ironic... A "Come To Jesus" Moment On FR...

I applaud that entity.


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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 04:07 PM

137. All of Melas' friends are seeing black helicopters everywhere and are cracking up from the paranoia

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