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Tue Jan 29, 2013, 07:55 AM

 

If only we actually lived in a perfect democracy, I could vote for Pres. Obama in 2016 and 2020

and have those votes count.

So it is not totally free as I am allowed to do it, I could write any name I choose, but it won't count and could severly affect the outcome.

However, to vote for the continuation of Barack Obama to continue living in Barack Obama world here, I would vote for Hillary Clinton to do just that.
That would not be a waste of a vote, even though I would truly love to vote for President Obama a 3rd and 4th time.

I am content with that knowledge though and the old serenity thingy again holds true

accept what I cannot change, change what I can and know the difference.

40 replies, 1754 views

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Reply If only we actually lived in a perfect democracy, I could vote for Pres. Obama in 2016 and 2020 (Original post)
graham4anything Jan 2013 OP
Recursion Jan 2013 #1
pinboy3niner Jan 2013 #2
nick of time Jan 2013 #14
EarthWindFire Jan 2013 #3
redgreenandblue Jan 2013 #4
onenote Jan 2013 #5
graham4anything Jan 2013 #6
green for victory Jan 2013 #8
Mojorabbit Jan 2013 #27
MattBaggins Jan 2013 #23
thelordofhell Jan 2013 #30
MattBaggins Jan 2013 #34
onenote Jan 2013 #36
MattBaggins Jan 2013 #37
Union Scribe Jan 2013 #7
graham4anything Jan 2013 #9
fishiefish Jan 2013 #10
graham4anything Jan 2013 #11
fishiefish Jan 2013 #12
graham4anything Jan 2013 #13
fishiefish Jan 2013 #15
JaneyVee Jan 2013 #17
actslikeacarrot Jan 2013 #18
fishiefish Jan 2013 #19
liberal_at_heart Jan 2013 #20
graham4anything Jan 2013 #22
liberal_at_heart Jan 2013 #25
graham4anything Jan 2013 #31
liberal_at_heart Jan 2013 #39
JaneyVee Jan 2013 #16
legaleagle_45 Jan 2013 #21
MattBaggins Jan 2013 #24
legaleagle_45 Jan 2013 #40
pauldemmd195j Jan 2013 #26
leftstreet Jan 2013 #29
NightWatcher Jan 2013 #28
graham4anything Jan 2013 #32
NightWatcher Jan 2013 #33
MattBaggins Jan 2013 #35
hughee99 Jan 2013 #38

Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 07:56 AM

1. 8 years of that stress ages people enough

I think the 2-term limit is a good idea.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 08:00 AM

2. W proved that it's a good idea. nt

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Response to Recursion (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:46 AM

14. So true.

 

I look at a pic of him running for the presidency in 2008 and a pic of him now and I can see the toll the presidency has taken on him, he has aged visibly.
2 terms is plenty.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 08:05 AM

3. thats fine and dandy

 

but could you imagine if we had a republican president for 12 or even 16 years. NIGHTMARE!!!

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 08:25 AM

4. lol. So you are living in "Barack Obama world" eh?

You know, there for a while you got on my nerves, but now I find you amusing

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 08:33 AM

5. I recall some repubs making a similar argument during reagan's second term

Term limits are one of the many things in politics that one either supports or opposes depending on who won the last election.

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Response to onenote (Reply #5)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 08:57 AM

6. Remember, there was no restriction until after FDR. The Repubs.changed it

 

In one of their brilliant attempts to rig elections, the repubs changed it after FDR and sure enough, it came back to bite them with Eisenhower, and Reagan.

of course, Bill Clinton and President Obama would also have won 3 terms.
But, we have Hillary and Michelle to carry it forward.

(it is why if the repubs change the electoral vote, it will also come back to haunt them and very quickly at that).

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #6)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 09:07 AM

8. carry it forward?

 

what, indefinite detention?

Assassination of citizens without trial?
Intensified war on state legal Cannabis?
More bailouts for the 1%?
More rhetoric about changing NAFTA while supporting more NAFTAS?
More undeclared wars?
Calling "Health Care" mandatory purchase of shit "insurance"?

Do you know why this is a Democratic Republic and not "Pure Democracy"?

Do schools teach anything anymore?

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Response to green for victory (Reply #8)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:46 PM

27. +100

I hope we can find a good very liberal candidate for the next election. I hope we can take the house and get a good margin in the senate also. I can dream, can't I?

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Response to onenote (Reply #5)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:38 PM

23. Not true at all

I fully oppose term limits even at the Presidential level because I actually believe in Democracy.

I don't believe in disenfranchising people or thumbing my nose at the First Amendment.

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Response to MattBaggins (Reply #23)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:51 PM

30. +1,000,000

Term limits should be abolished............your term is over when the people don't want to vote for you anymore

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Response to thelordofhell (Reply #30)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:55 PM

34. Absolutely

Term limts is "I don't like the outcome of a vote so I want to deny my stupid neighbors the right to vote for whomever they choose."


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Response to MattBaggins (Reply #23)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:16 PM

36. Should there be any minimum qualifications for someone to hold office?

Let's be clear: I am not a fan of term limits either. On the other hand, I don't feel particularly strongly about the fact that the constitution imposes age and citizenship limitations on the presidency. I don't think they make much of a practical difference, so I don't think it would be worth the effort to try to amend the constitution to get rid of them.

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Response to onenote (Reply #36)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:35 PM

37. Actually the age one could be lowered and would change nothing

An 18 year old won't get elected President but if people felt that some college kid was able to do it and the majority of Americans agreed that so be it.

Being a citizen is perfectly acceptable as a requirement. I suppose if one really examined the "natural born" requirement for being President, it wouldn't fail a true logic test. If people want to vote for Schwarzenegger, they probably should have that right.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 08:58 AM

7. What if Bloomberg runs?

Then what would you do?

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Response to Union Scribe (Reply #7)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 09:08 AM

9. I am supporting HIllary45. It's time for a woman.(being that Barack Obama can't run a 3rd time).

 

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 09:13 AM

10. You think your one vote

 

could severely impact an election? Please/

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Response to fishiefish (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:30 AM

11. I never waste a vote. Reading all my anti-Ralph Nader posts should make that obvious

 

and a few one people each in 2000 cost Al Gore NH, all those people who voted for Ralph Nader and others.

Gore and those 4 votes meant 270
before Florida even came into play.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #11)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:09 AM

12. Nader being a spoiler for 2000

 

Is pretty much the same thing as 9/11 Trutherisms. Both camps are intellectually deficient and fixated.

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Response to fishiefish (Reply #12)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:43 AM

13. Hillary45 for the continuation of President Obama, then Michelle46

 

Hillary45 will nominate Barack Obama to the US Supreme Court in 2018 where he can serve for if we are lucky 40 years.
I for one never want the age of Obama to end.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #13)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:51 AM

15. You know? That's not very imaginative or forward thinking.

 

Why not crown Obama our God-King and get it over with?

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Response to fishiefish (Reply #15)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:56 AM

17. You just told him his one vote doesn't matter now you think he has the power to crown someone

"God-King"? Whatever the eff that means. SOunds like some RWNJ BS.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #13)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:02 PM

18. this shouldn't be the age of Obama.

..or any singular person. It SHOULD be the age of the people. I admire the man greatly, but your almost worshipful tone is.......creepy.

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Response to actslikeacarrot (Reply #18)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:05 PM

19. AMEN to that!

 

That poster is like a bad caricature of what rightwingers think an Obama supporter looks like.

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Response to actslikeacarrot (Reply #18)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:10 PM

20. I agree

Obama has done some good things, but is doing poorly in others. The public school system is being destroyed before our very eyes and he has endorsed it. Not perfect by any means.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:28 PM

22. If only Jerry Brown won in 1992, but Paul Tsongas and a smear ruined that.

 

Jeb is not going to give you a better school system, Florida has one of the worst of all time.
When Jeb came in, it was bad, when Jeb left it was bad.

10% of something is better than 100% of nothing.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #22)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:45 PM

25. it's not good enough anymore

Democrats have to push for more funding and to find better ways to evaluate student and teacher progress. Obama has endorsed this new standardized testing that is going on. And as far as I can tell he has only talked about increasing money for math and science. The entire public education system needs more funding, not just math and science. I can no longer just sit by and say well it's better than nothing. My son is failing two classes, and that excuse just isn't good enough anymore. The clock is ticking, and I have to figure out how to get my child an education whether the republicans and democrats want my child to have an education or not.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #25)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:51 PM

31. Who does the funding? The house. that is why the need to win the house back is important.

 

Personally, I myself would get rid of private schools,and just have public schools, with rotating teachers througout the district every year, to ensure all teachers teach everywhere, but I am wise enough to know that will never happen.

One can only work with what is there to be worked with.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #31)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:36 PM

39. funding education has never been a top priority for either party

And it is about time both parties feet were held to the fire on this issue. If we can put pressure on democratic leaders to protect Social Security then we can put pressure on them to protect and fund education. Immigration, gun control, taxes, protecting Social Security. These are all important issues and I'm glad they are getting so much attention. But education should be right alongside all of those issues.

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Response to fishiefish (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:55 AM

16. Hmmm, imagine everyone said that.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:17 PM

21. Historical side note.

One of Jefferson's primary objections to the Constitution when he first saw it in November of 1787 was that there was no term limits for president. His concern was that this would naturally lead to a life term quasi king. This is his famous (or infamous) "Tree of Liberty" letter
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure.


http://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/tree-liberty-quotation

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Response to legaleagle_45 (Reply #21)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:41 PM

24. Jefferson's stupidest quote but loved by Freepers

because it talks about blood and killing.

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Response to MattBaggins (Reply #24)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 04:05 PM

40. Perhaps

But in Jefferson's defense, the quote was issued prior to Thoreau, Gandhi or Martin Luther King. What Jefferson favored was a politically active population rather than one of sheep. Thus this quote from the same letter:

And what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance?


He was condemning what he considered an overreaction to Shays' Rebellion. So what was Shays' Rebellion? Massachusetts was burdened with war debt which needed to be paid in gold so it required property taxes to be paid in a similar fashion. Many farmers in rural Massachusetts were unable to pay so a whole bunch of foreclosures were instituted the consequence being that these people would lose there homes and their farms. A group of persons protested this set of affairs and "occupied" a court house to prevent the foreclosures from proceeding. The only difference between them and the Occupy Wall Street folks is that they also happened to have muskets. They did not kill anyone and the only deaths that occurred were the result of a warning shot fired by the militia forces of Massachusetts at the protesters that fell short into the midsts of the rebels (protesters), killing two of them.

Which is why Jefferson said of the affair:

And can history produce an instance of a rebellion so honourably conducted?


I think this is what Jefferson had in mind and would have considered the Occupy Protesters or the Civil Rights movement of the 60's or the anti war movement as of the same lineage as Shays' Rebellion and something which is a good thing as it keeps the leaders honest and mindful of the people...

Call me a Jefferson apologist, LOL

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:45 PM

26. I would too

 

But in the end, rules are rules. We'll just have to go with Hilary for 2016. Not sure who'll be picked for 2020..

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Response to pauldemmd195j (Reply #26)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:50 PM

29. OMG Here comes the Hillary Ardent Supporters Network™

OMG

someone save us

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:48 PM

28. Who said we live in a democracy? I thought it was a representative republic...

We vote on reps to act on our behalf in DC. We also vote for reps to pick the President, remember the Electoral College.

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Response to NightWatcher (Reply #28)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:53 PM

32. I never said we did. I said IF we did

 

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #32)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:54 PM

33. Pure Democracies are little more than mob rule

Democracy is a sheep and two wolves voting on what's for dinner.

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Response to NightWatcher (Reply #33)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:58 PM

35. A republic

is three wolves and four sheep voting on what to have for dinner and the wolves still winning.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:35 PM

38. If you lived in a "perfect democracy", why would the president matter?

Wouldn't the people just vote on everything?

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