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Mon Jan 28, 2013, 08:31 PM

The disappearing 20% TIP! (3700 votes for tip integrity)




Cool campaign going on in San Antonio where we've been doing a "mock election" in efforts to show the City Council that a referendum like this has community support.

http://www.unitehere.org/detail.php?ID=3644

Basically, the way things in hospitality work in San Antonio is that most hotels (I think almost all) and banquet centers etc.. will tack on a 20% service fee to any large party or banquet etc... What most people assume is that the 20% is a gratuity that goes to the workers. But in San Antonio - it isn't. It goes to the hotel. The workers don't see a dime of it. So what often times will happen is that because people assume its a gratuity they then won't tip the workers AND the workers don't get anything out of the 20%.

Enter the Mi Tia campaign. If it was your aunt working hard every day - would you tip her? I'd like to think so....

Additional press coverage:


Union pushes 'Tip Integrity Act' for local hotel workers
UNITE HERE, downtown service workers fighting 'tip theft'
Volunteers talk to people in downtown to gain support for the initiative Mi TIA
A volunteer carries a ballot box to gather support for the initiative Mi TIA
Volunteers talked with workers in the service industry as well as customers about supporting an ordinance which would keep tips and surcharges in the pockets of the service worker

98 replies, 7993 views

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Arrow 98 replies Author Time Post
Reply The disappearing 20% TIP! (3700 votes for tip integrity) (Original post)
Omaha Steve Jan 2013 OP
OffWithTheirHeads Jan 2013 #1
Doremus Jan 2013 #3
OffWithTheirHeads Jan 2013 #10
silverweb Jan 2013 #85
kracer20 Jan 2013 #7
a la izquierda Jan 2013 #16
Lucky Luciano Jan 2013 #18
OriginalGeek Jan 2013 #72
Ter Jan 2013 #21
Kencorburn Jan 2013 #51
bettyellen Jan 2013 #30
union_maid Jan 2013 #45
tblue37 Jan 2013 #46
WolverineDG Jan 2013 #61
tblue37 Jan 2013 #91
WolverineDG Jan 2013 #60
MattBaggins Jan 2013 #71
kysrsoze Jan 2013 #62
Dustlawyer Jan 2013 #87
Curmudgeoness Jan 2013 #90
MattBaggins Jan 2013 #43
gollygee Jan 2013 #47
MattBaggins Jan 2013 #49
gollygee Jan 2013 #64
MattBaggins Jan 2013 #68
gollygee Jan 2013 #69
Maraya1969 Jan 2013 #93
union_maid Jan 2013 #56
MattBaggins Jan 2013 #58
caseymoz Jan 2013 #79
OffWithTheirHeads Jan 2013 #77
CreekDog Jan 2013 #97
MattBaggins Jan 2013 #98
Maraya1969 Jan 2013 #92
Heather MC Jan 2013 #2
rocktivity Jan 2013 #4
Sheldon Cooper Jan 2013 #5
Moostache Jan 2013 #52
dsc Jan 2013 #6
JVS Jan 2013 #28
Maraya1969 Jan 2013 #94
Curmudgeoness Jan 2013 #8
AndyTiedye Jan 2013 #20
Matariki Jan 2013 #9
GoneOffShore Jan 2013 #14
adieu Jan 2013 #11
Skittles Jan 2013 #12
Incitatus Jan 2013 #40
On the Road Jan 2013 #13
leftyohiolib Jan 2013 #15
davidn3600 Jan 2013 #17
dsc Jan 2013 #78
davidn3600 Jan 2013 #88
go west young man Jan 2013 #19
theKed Jan 2013 #23
Arcanetrance Jan 2013 #35
theKed Jan 2013 #54
Arcanetrance Jan 2013 #55
theKed Jan 2013 #66
Spider Jerusalem Jan 2013 #36
NewJeffCT Jan 2013 #41
MattBaggins Jan 2013 #73
union_maid Jan 2013 #48
MicaelS Jan 2013 #57
Gormy Cuss Jan 2013 #82
SheilaT Jan 2013 #22
quakerboy Jan 2013 #24
redqueen Jan 2013 #75
mopinko Jan 2013 #25
mountain grammy Jan 2013 #26
MrModerate Jan 2013 #27
awoke_in_2003 Jan 2013 #29
reformist2 Jan 2013 #31
Spider Jerusalem Jan 2013 #32
Mdterp01 Jan 2013 #33
Omaha Steve Jan 2013 #34
99Forever Jan 2013 #37
Incitatus Jan 2013 #38
tclambert Jan 2013 #39
Lifelong Protester Jan 2013 #42
Cal Carpenter Jan 2013 #44
Omaha Steve Jan 2013 #67
backscatter712 Jan 2013 #50
Maraya1969 Jan 2013 #95
TeamPooka Jan 2013 #53
MicaelS Jan 2013 #59
rocktivity Jan 2013 #83
SunSeeker Jan 2013 #63
Uben Jan 2013 #65
JustAnotherGen Jan 2013 #70
DaveJ Jan 2013 #76
DaveJ Jan 2013 #74
Luminous Animal Jan 2013 #84
DaveJ Jan 2013 #89
WHEN CRABS ROAR Jan 2013 #80
caseymoz Jan 2013 #81
gtar100 Jan 2013 #86
madinmaryland Jan 2013 #96

Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 08:41 PM

1. Unfucking believable! I allways tip at least 20% and then round up.

I figure if I can't afford a decent tip, I can't afford to eat out.

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Response to OffWithTheirHeads (Reply #1)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:09 PM

3. We do too, but we make sure to hand cash to the wait person vs. paying it w/the meal.

Have heard too many stories of unscrupulous owners keeping the tips.

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Response to Doremus (Reply #3)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:43 PM

10. Noted!

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Response to Doremus (Reply #3)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 04:46 PM

85. Yes!

My daughter worked in a restaurant for a while while she was going to school and told me the same thing: always make every effort to hand the tip in cash directly to the server.

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Response to OffWithTheirHeads (Reply #1)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:30 PM

7. I don't believe in the 20% tip.

I'm guessing that the wait staff at a chain like Dennys or Applebees gets paid roughly the same as some of the higher end restaurants. If my meal is a $7 breakfast, or $14 entree at one of the chains and I get decent service, I typically leave between 4-5 dollars (well above 20%. If I eat at a fancy place (not my cup of tea) and have a $30 meal, I would typically leave 4-5 dollars.

Same service provided at both places equals the same tip in my book. Percentages don't work out for me based on meal prices.

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Response to kracer20 (Reply #7)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:00 PM

16. Both servers are making $2.13/hour

depending on the state.
I wouldn't advertise your "frugality." If you're that cheap, stick to eating crap at Denny's, where the CEO won't pay healthcare fees.

You ever wait tables??

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Response to kracer20 (Reply #7)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:05 PM

18. Higher end restaurants have servers vastly more

...knowledgeable about the menus, wines, cooking styles. They also do more than just take your order and bring you the food. They also do a lot of nice little touches that make the dining experience more enjoyable. Perhaps you should pay the maximum of $5 and 20% if that satisfies your empathy for the hardworking Denny's server.

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Response to Lucky Luciano (Reply #18)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:49 PM

72. Yep

We used to go to a local steak house fairly often - birthdays, anniversaries, special occasions etc...We always requested one particular waiter who had been at this place for many, many years. I heard he made close to 100k a year and I didn't begrudge him one penny of it. He always got good tips from me. He was a great server until he retired. Consequently, we slowed down our visits from several times a year to once every couple years. It wasn't the same without him. If Marvin made it a point to recommend a particular dish, we knew to get it. That dude was just plain in tune with the what the kitchen was doing and what we liked.

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Response to kracer20 (Reply #7)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:43 PM

21. Percentages are everything

 

If the bill is $150 and the tip is $5, that's putrid. If the bill is $30, then $5 is ok. If it's $14, then $5 is great. Remember, servrs bus out on the percentage of the bill. So a $150 check actually costs the server a few dollars.

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Response to Ter (Reply #21)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:38 PM

51. On top of that, servers have to claim a percentage of sales as taxable income.

They pay taxes whether they get tipped or not.

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Response to kracer20 (Reply #7)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:49 PM

30. it's not like Santa. Sheesh.

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Response to kracer20 (Reply #7)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:57 AM

45. I wouldn't eat at the fancy place twice, then

It's not really the same service. A LOT more is expected from servers at high end places. I've worked at both many years ago and my son has worked at both and one in the middle. For the high end place he works at now, the training is extensive and ongoing. Mostly, though, they don't serve as many people during a shift. They would never have as many tables as Fancy Pants Place as at the Outback.

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Response to kracer20 (Reply #7)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:57 AM

46. In a low-end restaurant table turnover is

frequent, so the server will get as many as two or three small tips per table per hour. In a fancy restaurant, the party will monopolize that table for a very long time, so even after, say, two or more hours, that table will produce just the one tip for the server.

Also, to ensure excellent service in expensive restaurants, the servers will have fewer tables per station, so instead of, say, 7 to 12 tables per station, with each table turning over at least once per hour, the server might have just four tables, turning over once every two hours. Although base pay is the same for the servers in both restaurants, the customers who cheap the servers in the expensive restaurant really devastate their overall hourly earnings.

In a fancy restaurant the customers also usually demand much more attentive, time-consuming service, and they really should expect to compensate the server for that extra time and effort.

Please stop eating out if you cannot stand to tip properly.

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Response to tblue37 (Reply #46)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:32 PM

61. I am this close to advocating the passage of a law

that requires everyone to work in a restaurant.

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Response to WolverineDG (Reply #61)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 07:39 PM

91. Many of us have. Those of us who have waited

tables and depended on tips to make ends meet are usually generous tippers.

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Response to kracer20 (Reply #7)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:29 PM

60. You do know that the IRS snags 8% of the tab & calls it "income"

regardless of whether you tip or not, right? right?

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Response to WolverineDG (Reply #60)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:49 PM

71. That problem should be addressed

The staff should be paid living wages and stop this nonsense of a class that is treated like crap like they are.

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Response to kracer20 (Reply #7)


Response to kracer20 (Reply #7)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 05:57 PM

87. At the higher end facilities, the wait staff have to tip out bartenders, bus boys etc.

The level of service depends on many, not just the waiter/waitress. At Dennys they keep it all!

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Response to kracer20 (Reply #7)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 07:23 PM

90. I read this post yesterday, and it has stuck with me.

The more I think about it, the better this idea is. Really, the wait staff at a lower priced restaurant work just as hard as the ones in the swanky joints....and probably work harder. I was also thinking of lunch or breakfast wait staff as opposed to dinner staff. They all work hard. In fact, I went out tonight at a low priced chain across the street from my mechanic (had to have the car in for service), and I couldn't forget this idea. With a bill for dinner of just over $10, you are right. The percentages don't work.

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Response to OffWithTheirHeads (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:43 AM

43. If you are going through hard times and are short on cash

but maybe have enough to take the kids and family out once in awhile but perhaps can not hit 20% is it better that the workers and business get nothing at all?

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Response to MattBaggins (Reply #43)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:58 AM

47. If you can't afford the tip

you honestly can't afford to eat out. What's the difference between a decent tip and a cheap one at a family place? $1 or $2?

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Response to gollygee (Reply #47)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:21 PM

49. I hear that a lot from some of

my snobbier friends with more discretionary cash than others.

Don't know how to put this politely but all the "if you can't afford exactly the amount of money I say you should pay, then you are a poor untermensch and shouldn't even be allowed in public"; ought to order a nice big cup of STFU.

Nothing more snobby and pretentious.

I always leave at least 5 dollars say for lunch time and I round even that up to make an even amount, but no I have not always been able to afford 20% but that is no excuse for the finger wagging of the boorish 20%ers.

The one group of so called liberals that most make me grind my teeth and bite my lip.

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Response to MattBaggins (Reply #49)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:05 PM

64. It's part of the cost of the meal

If you can't afford the cost of X, you can't afford the cost of X. It has nothing to do with being allowed in public, which is ridiculous hyperbole, and is just plain economics. If you can't afford to get a room painted, you can't afford to get it painted. You don't just pay less. In the same way, if you can't afford to pay the whole cost of eating out, including the tip, you can't afford to eat out.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #64)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:39 PM

68. No it is not part of the cost

It does not have to be 20%.

I am all for food service people being treated fairly and not being paid slave wages, but you 20%ers need to lay off the rest of the working poor.

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Response to MattBaggins (Reply #68)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:40 PM

69. IMO 15 to 20% is fine

but less than 15% means they're going home short handed. They're the working poor too.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #69)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 08:31 PM

93. When I was younger I followed 2 different heads of parties out to their cars because they

left me such low tips. One man was very embarrassed and asked me how much he should have given me and I told him and he gave me the money. (It was a big table and I carried a lot of food and did a lot of work for them. This was in the early 80's and their tab was almost $100. The other did about the same. He was from a very big table too with a very high tab and gave me a couple dollars. He did not get mad either, at least to my face he didn't. And at least I got my tip which is what I WAS WORKING FOR.

I remember waitressing was a very physical job and it required you to be sharp mentally and on the ball. I actually liked it. Getting stiffed really hurt. But getting stiffed on a huge ticket with a 10 or 12 top is horrible and should not be stood for.

And yes, when you work for such a restaurant you do not turn over tables very fast. Big tables like that are there for a few hours at least. And you are there taking care of them the whole time.

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Response to MattBaggins (Reply #43)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:14 PM

56. From the workers' point of view, yes

You'd be taking up a table that might have left a decent tip. As someone posted in this thread, the servers are pay income tax based on their sales, not on actual tips. Just don't go if you can't do the tip.

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Response to union_maid (Reply #56)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:23 PM

58. No

I did deliveries for 3 years while I went to college and did not feel the need to be sanctimonious to other students who had exactly $5 to spend on a dinner special and couldn't tip me. I understood their predicament and didn't need to judge them. I guess as an actual Liberal I learned a different life lesson.

I take issue with the owners and politicians that let them get paid slave wages; and don't tell lower income people that might want to take the family out once in while that they are the problem, and should stay home.

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Response to union_maid (Reply #56)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:46 PM

79. If none of them are willing to pay that, you're in trouble.


I remember in the late eighties or so, hearing that the expected tip had gone up from 15 to 20%. Wait, nobody negotiated that. It was just announced one day. Now, I'm one of those who you say "can't afford to eat out." In the exceptional times I do eat anywhere, the place must be cheap. There I tip a minimum of $1, even if the tea I ordered is a $1.80, and $1.50 for anything up to $10. In the unlikely even that the tab is above that, I tip 15-20%, but usually on the lower end. Since my tabs are usually low, however, it works out to more than 20% overall.

If you believe the 15% are standing in the way of your getting to those high-tipping customers quicker, then I think having us stay home will awaken you to a terrible economic reality even faster.

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Response to MattBaggins (Reply #43)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:35 PM

77. Did you see someplace where I said everybody should do what I do?

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Response to MattBaggins (Reply #43)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 09:00 PM

97. grocery store, fast food, etc.

places where there isn't tipping.

or order things from a restaurant where you can afford to tip appropriately.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #97)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:34 PM

98. I appreciate your help

but I don't need you telling me what to do. Why don't you ask the owners and politicians to pay the employees appropriately.

And why isn't 80% appropriate?

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Response to OffWithTheirHeads (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 08:16 PM

92. Can we sign the petition or any petition for these people?

And the next time a gratuity is added onto my check I am going to call for the manager and specifically ask him/her if the wait staff gets the tip or not. If they do not I do not think I will pay it. It is fraudulent. I will give the money directly to the wait staff.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:08 PM

2. I can't freaking believe the hotels keep the dayum tips that is utter bullshit

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:15 PM

4. Working in advertising and the music businesses, I've been to functions

Last edited Sat Jul 5, 2014, 11:24 AM - Edit history (4)

and even open bars that bore signs saying "No Tipping Necessary -- A Generous Gratuity Has Been Provided By Your Host." And one of the open bars bore additional signs: "Any tips will be donated to a local charity."


rocktivity

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:21 PM

5. You gotta be kidding me.

That money doesn't go to the workers? Who the hell does it go to? I've worked for tips and I've been in management too, and I couldn't look at myself if I took my employee's tips. How despicable.

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Response to Sheldon Cooper (Reply #5)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:54 PM

52. I wish I could feign surprise...

The people who do the actual work in ANY enterprise get the ass-end of the pay and its really not shocking to see an employer fuck over their employees any longer, its standard operating procedure.

My response would simply be to no longer patronize the establishment until they ceased the deception. If they need the extra 20% in revenues, bite the bullet and raise your menu prices by 20% across the board...otherwise, fold the restaurant and go into a different line of work...like multi-level marketing or banking.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:26 PM

6. The solution to this isn't to have us tip and pay that charge

it is to ban that misleading charge. I have to say that I still tip when a tip has been added but I never tip as much as I normally would. I assumed that the surcharge which was called a tip, was in fact, a tip. Is this what happens when you have a large table at a restraunt?

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Response to dsc (Reply #6)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:31 PM

28. +1

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Response to dsc (Reply #6)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 08:37 PM

94. Like I said in a previous post. I think if I ever find out that the waiter does not get the tip

I am going to remove it from the bill, recalculate it and pay only for the food. Because it is fraudulent. It they have a problem with that let them take me to court. I will then give that money to the waiter.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:37 PM

8. Is this only the case in San Antonio?

I have never heard of this before. I have often dealt with the 15 or 20% "gratuity" being added to a bill for a large party, and I have always assumed that this was a tip that went to the wait staff. If that is not the case, I think that public education is sorely needed. Actually, public education on this is needed in San Antonio too. I would never know.

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Response to Curmudgeoness (Reply #8)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:34 PM

20. If That is the Case Someone Should Bring Down the Law On Them

They are misrepresenting the "Gratuity" or "Service Charge" they add to the bill. That is FRAUD.
They are STEALING from their employees and should be prosecuted for it.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:42 PM

9. That is intensely sleazy of any hotel that does that.

Deceptive and greedy.

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Response to Matariki (Reply #9)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:58 PM

14. It's typical hotel practice.

They tack that 20% on and the servers are lucky to see half of it.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:54 PM

11. SFGate has an article about the 4% Healthy SF tax

which isn't exactly a tax, but large restaurants charge this, and the money goes directly into the restaurant owner's pocket instead of going to the employees' health fund. Disgusting.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:56 PM

12. so....what exactly is that money for?

why does anyone but the waitstaff need that money assumed for large crowd?

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Response to Skittles (Reply #12)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:52 AM

40. I would guess so they can pretend their prices are cheaper than they really are.

They can advertise a room for $99 a night, when in reality it's $120 a night.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:58 PM

13. This is an Old Practice

It goes back at least a hundred years to coat check women in fancy restaurants. They had a tip bowl, but the proceeds went to the restaurant. Restaurants even resorted to statistical analysis to determine whether individual employees were walking off with part of the restaurant's tips.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:58 PM

15. I AM A 20%-ER

 

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:00 PM

17. I've seen this before...

When I worked for a small hotel years ago part-time, the corporate policy was that employees could not accept tips and if they do it has to go to the business or else it's considered "stealing." The corporate big suits philosophy with this was that the money was being made on the property of the business therefore it belongs to the business.

My boss though didn't care for the dumb rule. So he told everyone to take the tip and don't tell anyone about it.

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #17)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:45 PM

78. so when I tip the maid at a hotel

the money actually goes to the business?

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Response to dsc (Reply #78)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 06:18 PM

88. Im not saying its true with all hotels or even true today

just that it was like that at one I worked at several years ago. It may have even been illegal since I never actually heard of anyone getting fired there because they took a tip.

One thing though is the IRS is no different. Legally you are supposed to report tips as taxable income. Of course this is incredibly difficult for the IRS to prove it wasnt reported if the tip was in cash.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:29 PM

19. This issue isn't just in large chain hotels and restaurants.

It's very common in small restaurants as well that are individually owned. It's common now for the restaurant owners to make servers "tip out" from their tips. This is usually between 3 and 5% of total sales. It often amounts to 1/5 to 1/6th of a servers take. This portion of a servers tips is used to pay what the owners refer to as "overhead" but it is usually split between hostess's, food runners, busman and bartenders.

Before the early 90's these other positions were paid for by restaurant owners but like all things over time it has trickled down to waitstaff paying these employees. In the major resorts I've worked in the added service charge for functions is usually a lot more than the waitstaff are paid. I would estimate on weddings that can cost tens of thousands of dollars that an extra 7% is going to the company and not to the staff. The staff make just at 15% and are usually paid by the hour at large resorts for large functions.

The "service charge" as a whole has been turned into another tool of corporate profiteers whose only real concern is their own bottom line. Yet we will always here them complaining of how they are barely squeaking by. Funny how that never used to go on before the 90's. My theory is that back then people's ethic's trumped their capitalist self absorption.

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Response to go west young man (Reply #19)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:59 PM

23. You're misrepresenting what the server "tip out" is

This is kind of unrelated to the OP, which is fraudulent action on the part of hotel/catering ownership.

It is common, now, for servers to pay a tip out from their sales. This is to compensate other facets of the restaurant who don't receive tips (bussers, hosts, kitchen, etc) but who impact the quality of the dining experience as much as the server. By keying it off of total sales, it prevents unscrupulous servers from under-reporting what their tips were and contributing off of that (don't think that happens? it does). These tip outs aren't paying wages for bussers, hosts, and cooks - they are supplementary money ("tips") on top of that.

The bigger issue to deal with is server minimum wages. But that's a thorny issue, too. It would be great if server wages went up. But, at the same time, jacking up every server's pay $5 an hour would decimate the restaurant industry. Labor wages are one of the biggest costs in a restaurant, and to jump them up suddenly means a sudden spike in restaurant plate costs. People are already reluctant to spend extra for a meal out, to drive it up further pushes more people out of the customer base. I'm not sure what the solution is. It's not like the banks or insurance companies, restaurant owners aren't raking in salaries 200x the average workers, by and large (massive catering companies notwithstanding - they aren't the bulk of the industry). And, often, they're in their restaurant, slugging it out 70-80 hours a week to turn a profit.

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Response to theKed (Reply #23)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:28 AM

35. You see the problem is in real life I'm a chef I'm making currently $14.50 an hour

I don't need the tips like a server making under minimum wage would

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Response to Arcanetrance (Reply #35)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:03 PM

54. Most chefs/cooks

Dont make that much. Regardless, the tip out in most places that do it is lucky if its, in a week, what a server might get in a day.

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Response to theKed (Reply #54)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:12 PM

55. I know that all don't make this

When I started 12 years ago I wasn't making anywhere close to this. But chefs and cooks still make the bon server minimum wage and in NYC the waitress minimum is higher it's still not enough

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Response to Arcanetrance (Reply #55)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:07 PM

66. I agree it's not high enough...not anywhere.

There *are* servers out there that make a decent (or more) living in that field but that is certainly not the majority, or even close. A good server at a mid-to-up-scale restaurant can make excellent money. This isn't to counter what you're saying, because I agree wages should be higher, it's just a terribly difficult thing to do, requiring a lot more political attention than most are willing to give it. "They should get a real job" seems to be the prevailing attitude about servers unhappy with low wages. Which is bullshit.

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Response to theKed (Reply #23)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:32 AM

36. Why should people who are making minimum wage or above get a "tip out"...

from someone making $2.13 an hour plus tips? What that's really about is employers lowballing on pay for their kitchen staff and expecting servers to make up the difference.

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #36)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:17 AM

41. Yes, it's because a lot of the chain restaurants

and many other restaurants will pay hosts, bussers and kitchen staff low/minimum wages and expect it to be made up by the servers tipping out to the other staff.

Where I worked many years ago, the restaurant had a dozen servers on the floor and two more in the bar on the busier nights (Friday/Saturday) for 14 total, and fewer on weekdays and on other nights. At the end of their shift, each server would tip out $1 or more to the hosts, the bussers and kitchen staff. (I think the kitchen staff would get $2 per server, but it was 13-14 years ago, so my memory is hazy...). So, if there were two hosts and two bussers working that night, each host would divide up the $14 of tip out money ($1 from each of 14 servers), each busser would divide up $14 and the kitchen staff would divide up $28. If things ran smoothly up front (hosts), or tables were cleaned quickly (bussers) and food came out quickly and properly prepared, a server might tip out an extra dollar or two - or, if one individual above did outstanding work or did a favor for a server, the server might tip them individually as well.

So, the servers end up each tipping out $4-$6 per shift. On a Friday or Saturday night, most of the servers were taking home a minimum of $70-$80 in tips, with the servers who "closed" the restaurant sometimes taking home twice that. (Bussing tables was actually my favorite restaurant job - as you didn't have the stress of dealing directly with customers like hosts, servers and managers. But, if you cleared tables quickly and properly, the servers really appreciated it.)

Not saying it's right, but it's just how it's done. The managers didn't make a ton of money there, either.

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #36)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:58 PM

73. I may be a tin foiler

but I am fully convinced they use the animosity the whole system creates; to manage employees.

See a lot of parallels to the manufactured hatred of teachers, public employees and unions. Workers have been trained to blame each other rather than their bosses and owners.

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Response to theKed (Reply #23)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:00 PM

48. We tipped out 40 years ago, too

In one place I worked tips were pooled and the busboys got a smaller percentage than the servers. In the higher end place we tipped out for the busboys (they were all boys then) and the bartenders. The bartenders made better tips than the servers most of the time but they did make the drinks for our tables.

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Response to theKed (Reply #23)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:21 PM

57. I worked in the kitchen of a restaurant in 1974.

I was a dishwasher and pizza maker. I made $1.21 an hour. That is not a mistake. One dollar and twenty one cents and hour. The waitresses (they were all women), no "servers" back then, never tipped out to any of us working the kitchen, not ever.

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Response to theKed (Reply #23)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:53 PM

82. Maybe the restaurant industry SHOULD be decimated.

If they can't pay their staff at least the standard minimum wage their business model is failing. Plate costs SHOULD be higher if that's what is needed to make ends meet.

Living on the West Coast, where all three states have labor laws requiring that servers be paid at least the state minimum wage and where all three states have minimums HIGHER than the Federal minimum, we have restaurants galore even at the lower price points.

Been to San Francisco lately? Wait staff must be paid over $10/ hour and if the restaurant has more than 20 employees the owners must earmark an additional $1.50/hr to pay for some rudimentary health care access for employees. Did this decimate the industry? Not so you'd notice. There are restaurants on every block in commercial areas even out in the neighborhoods where tourists don't go.

Accomplishing better wages for servers can be done without decimating the industry if there's a will to do so.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:45 PM

22. I have a nephew who works at a dinner theater

in his city. The venue will offer special rates for things like New Year's Eve, and state that the price is "all inclusive" or something like that, so most of the guests honestly think the gratuity is included. It's not.

I've never waited tables and don't ever want to. I tip very generously no matter where I'm eating.

I have a son who does pizza delivery. I work an information desk at my city's hospital, and the pizza places deliver. If the delivery takes place in front of me, I ALWAYS remind the person to tip. And the pizza delivery folks are very appreciative.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:03 PM

24. Ya know what would be neat?

If waitstaff, and all other service workers, made a reasonable wage that they could afford to live on.

That would be a hell of a thing, eh?

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Response to quakerboy (Reply #24)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:11 PM

75. Yep. nt

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:17 PM

25. banquet joints here in chicago do this, also.

my daughter worked for one that was packed every night. they tipped the servers, but it was a fraction of their "service charge"
just plain wage theft. especially if these people are not making minimum wage.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:28 PM

26. This is so wrong, it's stealing from the servers and wait staff.

From now on I will ask whenever a gratutity is added to the check.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:31 PM

27. Tipping is a disease . . .

and the gross unfairness mentioned by many in this thread will never end until tipping is eradicated.

The notion that a restaurant owner gets to treat the uncertain kindness of strangers as a legitimate component of an employee's compensation is just plain nuts.

In Australia, where I live now, you don't tip. Instead, the restaurant owner pays servers (and bussers, hostesses, kitchen staff, etc., etc.) a living wage, and factors those costs into what the diner is charged.

Sure, restaurant prices are higher, but at least you're not having a meal off someone else's back.

(Of course, it helps that Australia's universal, single-payer healthcare protects both employer and employee from associated costs, but that's a discussion for another time.)

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:33 PM

29. 15% used to be the normal...

with 20 being for exceptional service. Now the want 20 to be the normal nd 25 for exceptional. I eat out a lot less these days- who can afford it?

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:53 PM

31. It actually sounds like fraud.


It's not a "Service Fee" at all. And it's totally arbitrary.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:05 AM

32. The real solution is to require employers to pay more than, what, $2.13 an hour.

Get rid of the exemption for servers/bartenders/cab drivers/whatever because it's based on the assumption that people are going to tip and make up the rest (which doesn't always happen). Allowing employers to pay slave wages and expecting that customers will make up the difference is just blindly optimistic anyway. And the whole culture of tipping is just deeply fucked in the USA; since servers and such rely on tips you're pretty much expected to leave one whether the service is good, bad, or indifferent.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:12 AM

33. I always leave 20%

 

I have friends who were waiters and as long as the service is decent they get 20%; more if they were really good.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 09:22 AM

34. Thank you for the great comments





OS

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:33 AM

37. K&R

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:44 AM

38. Fucking disgusting.

There was a local car wash that I used to go to. There was a box labeled 'TIPS' outside where you would wait for your car to be finished as workers were toweling it off, using armor all in the inside, etc. Of course, one would assume those tips went to the workers. After placing some money inside and going to get into my car, I was told by an employee that they don't get any of that money. The owners keep it to themselves. I asked two other guys there for confirmation and they said it was true. In future visits, I handed them tips directly. The place is out of business now.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:45 AM

39. So that 20% service fee is just the hotel robbing the customers and their own employees?

How very Republican of them. The Chamber of Commerce must be so proud.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:21 AM

42. And of course, because they are 'tipped' workers

they are paid below minimum wage? I hope not.

And I always tip 20%, having worked many years as a server. My spouse and I are uncomfortable with the tip left on the credit card even, as we are worried the server won't get it and it will be pocketed by management...

(On edit-sorry, I'm repeating what others have said here, looks like most folks here have also worked in the hospitality business or know someone who does, and are aware of the low wages).

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:54 AM

44. O/T re: your sig line image

Have you actually seen that movie?

It's pretty awesome, my spouse and I watched it a couple weeks ago. I recommend it.

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Response to Cal Carpenter (Reply #44)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:29 PM

67. It is on our rent list


Haven't seen it yet. But have had several people comment that it is a very good film.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:29 PM

50. Pizza joints are doing this hustle too.

Places like Papa Johns (IIRC) decided to add a "delivery fee" to the bill of people who ordered pizzas delivered.

People assumed that the delivery fee was in place of a tip, so they didn't tip the driver.

Yep, the pizza chain pocketed the fees, and the drivers saw nothing.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #50)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 08:55 PM

95. I think I might ask the pizza delivery person how much they get per delivery and cross

out the delivery fee and give that money plus the tip directly to the driver. Who says you can't change the receipt when you get it? It they are trying to rip you off you certainly have a right to fix thing I think. I hope other people will start doing the same thing I am going to start doing. Maybe we will start something. It can only work with credit cards though because cash they will make the driver pay up the extra money. But it you change the ticket and then sign it it becomes a deal between you and Pappa John then.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:00 PM

53. That tip doesn't just go to the waiter...it is shared with the busboys, bartenders and barbacks too

just saying.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:24 PM

59. So let me see if I understand this...

If you're in a large party in S.A. and you get charged 20% on your bill, then you're expected to tip ANOTHER 20% to the server? In other words 40% of your bill in service charge and tips?

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Response to MicaelS (Reply #59)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:55 PM

83. The 20% extra on the bill is supposed to cover the tips that YOUR GUESTS would pay

Last edited Sun Feb 24, 2013, 12:46 AM - Edit history (6)

the servers/workers. The money is supposed to be DISTRIBUTED among the event's workers, and guests are supposed to be INFORMED that tipping is not necessary, as I mentioned in Post #4. The hotel/catering hall should not be pocketing more than two per cent, and most important, paying the extra money supposed to be OPTIONAL.


rocktivity

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:59 PM

63. What a scam. Thanks for helping expose this ripoff. nt

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:06 PM

65. They tried that gratuity charge here for a couple of years.....

....and people hated it so much they quit eating at the place doing it because they wanted the workers to get ALL of the gratuity. They eventually dropped the 15% charge (which they charged every party< not just large ones). Their business is picking up again, now. Why don't these places just raise their rates rather than try to deceive us into thinking the money is a gratuity for the workers?
I will now refuse to eat at any establishment that uses this practice. BTW, I tip at least 20% for decent service, more for excellent service.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:42 PM

70. Oh

That's not good. I got married in NJ last year - we had an 18% gratuity on our reception bill. I really hope that went to the wait staff and bartenders, etc. etc. I know my guests tipped the bar staff - and my husband gave each of the waiters $100 in addition - but I really hope that the 18% went to the team on whole that made our reception so wonderful.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #70)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:16 PM

76. I think you're ok.

A wedding reception being a large planned event factors gratuity into the total cost. Nobody is allowed to get away with not tipping, so they add tips into the bill. (I think so anyway -- we did the same thing)

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:00 PM

74. I would not have assumed "service charge" meant tip.

I think people assuming that, are being willfully ignorant. Or erring on the side of cheapness.

I'd at least ask if I saw a "service fee" on my bill -- I'd assume it's the cost of paying service people (not tips).

I traveled abroad once, and it always has disgusted me that people can spend thousands on a vacation and then cringe at the idea of giving someone a $5 tip.

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Response to DaveJ (Reply #74)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 04:01 PM

84. I would assume so given that I'd already be paying $85.00 to $135.00 per guest. (I looked it up.)

I would also assume, at those prices, it would more than cover the cost of food and employees.

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #84)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 06:52 PM

89. That's the going rate for banquets unfortunately

We got off cheap for about $50-60 per plate at our reception, but that was after a lot of shopping, and we were not in a luxurious place like the river walk in San Antonio. I can imagine those being top of the line locations. So the customers also I would expect to have more intelligence than to assume anything.

I do not like being reamed with prices like that, but that's the way it is for whatever reason.

I would note the difference between "service fee" and "gratuity fee". I guess the owners were trying to pull something over on people, and that's why they lost on the referendum. But I guess I've been deceived enough times to come to expect these kind of word games.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:48 PM

80. I always leave a good tip,

except on the very rare times that the service was very bad and caused by the server.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:52 PM

81. Actually, I think customers should take action.


The customers had a right to expect that service fee would go to that staff. If you ask me, the hotel or restaurant simply commits fraud when they do that.

Therefore, customers should bring them up for fraud, or they should join in a class action suit. Since the establishment doesn't cross state lines, getting a local class action suit should have few barriers.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 05:34 PM

86. It's not a tip if the business takes it. It's a fee.

I'd be pissed if I knew a business was stealing tips from workers. That's just thievery.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 09:00 PM

96. I am glad to see people here saying that waitstaff should be paid a living wage

and not rely on the whims of the dining public. I would much have pay 20% more for my dinner and have the waitstaff paid a living wage than have them come groveling to me for a 15-25% tip.

I guess though, that I am wishing for too much.

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