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Mon Jan 28, 2013, 02:11 PM

Microsoft blames OEMs for slow Windows 8 sales, plans February "relaunch"




A report by The Register reveals that Microsoft blames OEMs for its relatively lackluster Windows 8 sales. Purportedly, Microsoft believes vendors didn't adhere closely enough to its hardware recommendations, producing mostly non-touchscreen computers that didn't showcase Windows 8's touchable side. This information comes from a "well-placed" source familiar with the matter.

Between its October 26 release and the end of 2012, Microsoft claimed to have sold 60 million copies of Windows 8. By comparison, it took Windows Vista about six months to sell the same number, but as some like to point out, statistics like these don't always tell the whole story. Official figures on Microsoft's Surface sales are still missing in action too, although Ballmer told a French news outlet that initial Surface sales were "modest". Some analysts estimate that Microsoft has sold fewer than one million Surface tablets.

Somewhat unsurprisingly, the report also indicates that OEMs have turned the tables, assigning blame for lackluster Windows 8 sales to Microsoft. The primary reason computer-makers didn't strictly follow Microsoft's internal guidelines is that few companies were willing to risk producing millions of expensive, high-end devices that customers weren't guaranteed to snap up.

In spite of tepid sales though, Microsoft took numerous steps to make Windows 8 a success. The company hyped up Windows 8 as its most important OS since Windows 95, offered upgrades at record low prices and even created reference hardware to ship it on, in spite of possibly damaging its OEM partnerships. Interestingly, the report also uncovers a little-known effort Microsoft also bankrolled: a "contest" between computer manufacturers to create "Hero PCs". Hero PCs were 10 hand-picked computers that Microsoft would have had retailers showcase globally. Disappointing sales though forced Microsoft to call off the promotion.


http://www.techspot.com/news/51450-microsoft-blames-oems-for-slow-windows-8-sales-plans-february-relaunch.html

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Reply Microsoft blames OEMs for slow Windows 8 sales, plans February "relaunch" (Original post)
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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 02:12 PM

1. Bill Gates' college roommate will be history by the end of the year. nt

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Response to onehandle (Reply #1)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 02:56 PM

8. Amazing He's Lasted This Long n/t

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Response to onehandle (Reply #1)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:08 PM

74. Good riddance. He has no vision and is a wingnut that is out of place in a mostly progressive

workforce company.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 02:16 PM

2. That is, indeed, hilarious since Microsoft went out of its way to compete with its OEMs.

Good grief!

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 02:16 PM

3. Trying to force a TAB OS on desktop users

Tab OS' like android are essentially toy operating systems. Why the hell would MS copy that then try to force it on desktop users?

Total incompetence.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #3)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 02:27 PM

5. Yep. Exactly. EOM.

 

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #3)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 03:07 PM

10. +1

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Response to leftstreet (Reply #10)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:32 PM

21. Jesus, that's a scary comparison. It boggles the mind.

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Response to leftstreet (Reply #10)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 08:45 PM

63. Awesome pic.

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Response to leftstreet (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 04:03 PM

228. I was under the impression you could set Windows 8 to show

a Windows 7-esque interface.

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Response to Arkana (Reply #228)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 09:57 PM

231. Sort of - the old Windows desktop has been gimped.

For one thing, the Start menu is gone, replaced with the Angry Fruit Salad. So now there's a cottage market in Start menu replacements.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #3)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 03:28 PM

12. I've wondered the same thing

It really doesn't make sense.

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Response to BuelahWitch (Reply #12)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 03:54 PM

14. because the two markets are going to merge

The vast majority of office users don't need a desktop computer and multifunctional tablets that plug into computer stations are only going to get better. The feeling is the laptop, tablet, phone and desktop computer market will merge and when they do Microsoft wants an operating system that works across those narrowing platforms. The move isn't about the present but about where they see the future.

This doesn't make it a good product, the first version of windows was painful to use that many people chose DOS over trying to use it. But when it came out Microsoft understood that interface system was going to only become more dominant in the market. I see this the same way.

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Response to Johonny (Reply #14)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:06 PM

16. Sure, the future. In the present, it's a Microsoft fail.

Touch screens offer very little to a cubicle worker. Most office time is spent writing reports and designing spreadsheets and coding applications. Touch what? Touch the screen to type something? No. Touch the screen to close a form? No. What possible use -other than in extremely limited fashion- does a touch screen offer the average user whether they are working at the office or at home?

Docking stations? Already have those.

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Response to randome (Reply #16)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:35 PM

24. You still have keyboard and mouse support

You still can do spreadsheets and code using keyboard and mouse. Touch is an added bonus incase someone is using a hybrid (tablet + labtop) device.

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Response to wisechoice (Reply #24)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:55 PM

36. I'm one of those cubicle workers. I can think of NO reason to touch my screen for any purpose.

Not a single thing. In fact, having to raise one's arms is distracting and tiresome when I can be more productive by dancing on my keyboard.

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Response to randome (Reply #36)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 05:14 PM

40. Then you don't need to use it

Having an (touch) option doesn't force you to use it.

I understand that you need to relearn a tiny bit to get used to windows 8. But is this a major distraction? I think not.

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Response to wisechoice (Reply #40)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 06:25 PM

45. LOL. I have no problem whatsoever learning something new.

But why would I want to when I have no use for a touch interface, arguably the only reason someone would 'upgrade' to Win8.

And the lack of multi-tasking? Take away something I need and give me something I don't want. Brilliant marketing strategy!

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Response to randome (Reply #45)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:00 PM

70. windows 8 is to stop ipad taking away pc market share

I can open a word document and power point and work side by side on the desktop mode. It has multitasking support

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Response to wisechoice (Reply #70)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:06 PM

73. Is this how it works?

http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/gadgetbox/8-worst-windows-8-annoyances-how-fix-them-962136

Multitasking in Windows 8 is like dating Sybil. Because there's no more Start menu, users are encouraged to leave the desktop environment and go to the Modern UI Start screen, just to launch other desktop apps that take you right back to the desktop. Not only does switching screens take more time than simply launching a menu, it takes you out of context by pushing your work in the first application off-screen, making it easy to lose track of what you were doing.

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Response to randome (Reply #73)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:28 PM

85. you can pin your programs to task bar

http://www.eightforums.com/tutorials/4946-taskbar-pin-unpin-apps-windows-8-a.html

It is just like osx docks. And osx needs gestures to go into its own 'start screen of icons' to launch other programs not in the dock.

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Response to wisechoice (Reply #85)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:35 PM

92. I'm one of those who hates the clutter of icons.

Tell me what the Microsoft Office icon means. Tell me what the Microsoft Silverlight icon means.

They mean nothing. Meaningless splashes of color that distract and annoy. Just like 90% of the icons in Office menus mean absolutely nothing.

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Response to randome (Reply #92)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:00 PM

106. tell me an os without icons.

Of course embedded os doesn't have icons because they don't have UI. Ipads have them. Macs have them. Linux have them.

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Response to wisechoice (Reply #106)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:09 PM

112. My point is that in previous OSs, you could organize your menus the way you wanted.

Icons are useful when they convey useful information. What Microsoft does is put icons in nearly every menu item they produce, making a useless clutter of meaningless shapes that, as I said, distracts and annoys.

For those of us who like clean, organized desktops (yes, some people work that way), Windows 8 is entirely the wrong OS.

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Response to wisechoice (Reply #40)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:31 PM

87. When the ...

... "touch option" is the only reason you would BUY W8, the question is WHY? Why would I buy it? It offers me NOTHING of value whatsoever.


It is just Microsoft trying to control the market, which has LONG SINCE passed them by. It's laughable.

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Response to sendero (Reply #87)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:07 PM

111. It is not about microsoft trying to control market

That is what apple is doing. You are partially right about the second part of your sentence. They are doing this for their survival.

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Response to wisechoice (Reply #111)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 05:46 AM

203. I misspoke..

... they are trying to become relevant in the phone market. A market that has long since passed them by due to their own stunning incompetence.

Microsoft always gained its success with marketing and bullying. They have never been innovators, they did not originate the graphical user interface, local area networking, the internet browser, not one single major paradigm shift in personal computing was developed by MS. Their run of being able to be a giant bringing nothing to the party is over. Good riddance.

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Response to sendero (Reply #203)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:13 PM

232. Most of the successful companies are like that

including Apple. MS did some of the innovation. One thing that comes to mind is xbox. One of the reasons that you don't see the innovation is it was primarily a software/os company. Whatever they did to their OS is not going to be visible.

What I like in MS is that it helped me assemble computers cheap for the past 10+ years while Apple refused to let their OS run in non-apple hardware. Linux is getting better these days, but some years back it lacked drivers and installing components was painful.

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Response to randome (Reply #36)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 06:17 PM

43. As if screens aren't hard enough to keep

clean.

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Response to ohheckyeah (Reply #43)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 08:36 PM

58. I cringe when someone touches my screen to make a point.

I prefer to see what I'm doing without smudges.

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Response to randome (Reply #16)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:05 PM

147. Touch screens aren't particularly new.

In the early 80's, early PCs, along with TRS-80s, Apples and other machines flirted with touch screen, and other devices like light pens.

The big problem with touch screens in the desktop environment is the Gorilla Arm. When you're sitting at your desk in front of your computer, you have the screen set up in a way so that you can see it most easily - with the screen stood up vertically. So, if that screen is a touch screen, you've got to lift your arm and your hand up, and constantly make pointing and touching motions. Do that for even a few minutes, and your arm's going to get tired, and start slumping, and that's the Gorilla Arm effect, which is why touch screens don't work on traditional desktop machines.

The alternative which has been adopted is to give the user a way to point at things on the screen and manipulate them while their hands are resting comfortably on their desk - the mouse.

Now, OTOH, if you took the mouse and mousepad, and replaced it with a tablet with a touchscreen, set up explicitly as an input device to the desktop machine, that would be pretty cool. Instead of having to remember Ctrl-S to save, Alt-F4 to exit, F5 to refresh, Ctrl-C to copy, Ctrl-X to cut, Ctrl-V to paste, those buttons would be on the tablet, labeled as such, and would be set up appropriately for each app you're running - the tablet would have text-formatting, spell-checking, related controls for your word processor, it'd have an address bar, buttons to go back, forward, home, a way to flip through your bookmarks for your web browser, it'd have play, pause, forward, back for your video player, it's have your inventory/weapons arsenal/flight controls for your games.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #147)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:14 PM

151. I actually had something similar to what you described set up between my Nintendo DS...

some homebrew software on it, and my PC, the connection worked over wifi(both have to be on the local network), also made my DS into a HID controller for PC games, and I was able to use the touchscreen as a touchpad for the computer as well. It was cool.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #147)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:26 PM

157. I'd be more willing to try a device like you describe than I would Win8.

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Response to randome (Reply #157)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:47 PM

167. My critiques of Windows 8:

Unintuitive interface whether you're using a touch screen or a mouse. Even worse when using a mouse. Oh, I'm supposed to go to the Charms menu? It'd be helpful if someone told me what the Charms menu was, or that I had to throw the mouse to the corner or swipe the right edge of the screen - the system doesn't show anything on the screen as a hint to indicate you need to do that.

You've got two interfaces now - the gimped Windows 7 style desktop and the Start Screen.

The Start Screen is an angry fruit salad with all those colored tiles, and animated widgets - gets obnoxious in a hurry.

Too many things are thrown off-screen entirely - you don't have a start menu anymore, you've got the Start Screen, which you can get to if you tap the corner of your screen or throw your mouse to the corner (assuming you remember that's how you do that - nothing on the screen is dropping hints.) Not only do you have to remember where things are because you're navigating without a map, but you've got to click the mouse or tap the screen more times to do what you want.

Personally I'm surprised nobody's tried the route of turning a tablet into an input device for the PC. Integrate them together, and you can do stuff like work on your document on the tablet, which is good on the go, but you've got the small screen, maybe a keyboard if you took the trouble to bring it with you, but when you put your tablet on your desk, your desktop and your tablet recognize each other, communicate over wi-fi, the tablet goes into Desktop interface mode, and that document you were working on in your tablet automatically fires up on your desktop, comes up on the big screen, and your tablet puts up the UI for your word processor.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #167)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:54 AM

184. About that tablet as input device...

This is along those lines and works great:

Turn your smartphone into a wireless universal remote control for your Windows PC.

http://www.unifiedremote.com/

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Response to Johonny (Reply #14)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:21 PM

17. "The vast majority of office users don't need a desktop computer"

If you are implying that they use TAB computers, you are dead wrong. Tab computers are largely useless for work purposes. Touch screens are useless for work purposes. Laptops are fine, but Windows 8 isn't a laptop OS, it's a tab OS.

I wonder how many enterprises and institutions are switching over to Windows 8? My guess would be zero. Windows 8 is an epic FAIL on Microsoft's part and a lot of heads will roll over it.

Microsoft also blew it by attempting to force end users to learn a new OS interface. People dont want to learn a whole new interface system, especially home users.

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Response to Johonny (Reply #14)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:38 PM

27. I don't see how different devices designed for different purposes will merge...

You are not going to make spreadsheets or write up hundreds of pages of documents faster on a tablet, indeed it is clunky and slower, hence reduces productivity. Not to mention that Windows 8's start page allows 2 apps open at a time, you have to go to the desktop interface to open more. So that's a big fat fail right there, multitasking is necessary in the modern office environment, I have at least 3 applications open at any given time due to the nature of my work, I don't see doing that in Windows 8, in its "Metro" interface.

Even if you are talking about literal merging, well, Desktops are still faster than tablets because tablets are battery powered and have to use slower GPUs and CPUs to conserve battery power. The architectures are still different, though a x86 compatible low power processor is "just around the corner", it will still be slower, so, even assuming you get binary compatibility, there's no guarantee that software will run just as well as it does on desktops and laptops.

Tablets are good for work on the go, that I will concede, such as answering emails, browsing the web, video calls, whatever, but they certainly aren't going to replace Desktops or laptops for certain purposes. Using a bluetooth keyboard and mouse with a tablet is great, but the whole "on the go" part kinda flies out the window.

The problem is they see a future that won't exist for practical reasons, you aren't going to have people sit in their cubicles and reach towards touchscreens to do work when using a mouse and keyboard are superior in every way.

Apple and Google understand this, their OSes have cross compatibility with their respective products, but they are NOT exactly the same, iOS and MacOS X share some interface elements, but only where it makes sense, same for ChromeOS and Android, but again, not the same, different interfaces and OSes for different devices.

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Response to Johonny (Reply #14)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 07:01 PM

46. I really can't see the vast majority of businesses

adopting this anytime soon. My old workplace is still using XP, for gawd's sake.
Microsoft has shot themselves in the foot with this one.

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Response to BuelahWitch (Reply #46)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:21 PM

117. If they adopt it at all

I've worked for two global tech companies recently who had to be dragged kicking and screaming from XP to Win7. There's no chance they will jump into 8 anytime soon, if ever.

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Response to Johonny (Reply #14)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:54 PM

169. "The vast majority of office users don't need a desktop computer" Lol, this is a joke...

right? Because I see no advantage for any enterprise to move away from desktop computers at this time or anytime in the future. You would be trading a decent desktop for an underpowered tablet, attached to a larger screen, because you sure as hell don't want it to stay at 10 inches or so, with a mouse and keyboard attached, that costs the same as a desktop computer that is 4 times faster, and can do things like multitasking a hell of a lot easier.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #3)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:30 PM

20. Windows 8 still has desktop

Touch is an added bonus. Desktop mode is still there in windows 8.

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Response to wisechoice (Reply #20)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:44 PM

28. The problem is that its gimped and not the default interface...

touch wasn't added as an additional bonus, but as the default, and the desktop is rather gimped, so much so you have to go to third parties to have the start menu back. Hell, my Brother-in-Law just got a new laptop with Windows 8 installed, and I had to show him how to get into the Control Panel to uninstall McAfee from it. He's not a computer novice, and he's younger than me by 6 years, still in his 20s. This is ridiculous.

The problem with Windows 8 is that in order to have similar functionality to Windows 7, you have to find tutorials online, install third party software, and interface with the computer in archaic ways, as if you are unlocking secrets rather than just working on your own computer, this isn't how good OS design works. Its like Linux in the mid-90s all over again.

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Response to Humanist_Activist (Reply #28)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:55 PM

35. The start screen is the old start button

If you have programs written for desktop they will work fine in desktop. If you have programs written for tablet, then it doesn't show up in the desktop mode. I don't see that as a major problem. Even mac osx doesn't have a start button. You have gestures(mac) and keyboard keys(windows 8) to get to the program icons.

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Response to wisechoice (Reply #35)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 07:25 PM

47. OS X uses the Dock rather than the Start Button to launch programs

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Response to jmowreader (Reply #47)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 08:55 PM

67. windows has task bar

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Response to wisechoice (Reply #20)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:46 PM

30. Then what's the point of having two different interfaces?

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Response to randome (Reply #30)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:56 PM

37. You know, it would have been genius if they did it, but in reverse...

For example, giving you the option, on install, of having the "Metro" interface as default, or the standard desktop, or have the installer be smart enough to detect if you have a touchscreen, and making the decision accordingly. That would make sense, two different interfaces for two different ways of interfacing with your computer, and leaving the second option as just that, an option.

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Response to Humanist_Activist (Reply #37)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:10 PM

75. MS wants to shove its tablet interface down users' throats

That's why they did it.

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Response to Humanist_Activist (Reply #37)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:31 PM

88. "have the installer be smart enough to detect if you have a touchscreen"

BOOM! That's it right there...

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Response to BuelahWitch (Reply #88)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:59 PM

105. Its not even that hard, the installer has to install drivers for that touchscreen anyways...

so your OS KNOWS what you have installed, and its not to far out there for it to adjust accordingly.

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Response to Humanist_Activist (Reply #37)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:56 PM

103. I think this is a marketing decision

WIth ipads that seem to do more of pc tasks and all the news paper headlines running 'is pc dead?' Microsoft had to address the threat from ipad. I think they tried very hard to cater to all people with both touch and non touch devices. If there is choice between buying an ipad and a laptop vs buying windows 8 tablet with keyboard Microsoft is betting on people choosing the later. I think one of the reason they had to have the start screen is push people to write more metro apps so it can compete with apple's app store. The other reason is it is not a user choice of having metro vs desktop. It is dictated by the applications themselves. If the app is written for metro it will need the metro interface.

I have both a Mac and a windows 8 tablet with keyboard. I think windows 8 is well suited for latops with touch screen.

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Response to wisechoice (Reply #103)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:01 PM

108. Yes, it is well suited to touch screens, not everyone has those, nor is it practical in every...

situation, that's why you don't have a DESKTOP OS have a touchscreen interface as default, that's stupid.

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Response to Humanist_Activist (Reply #108)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:24 PM

120. Microsoft still supports windows 7

for people who are not comfortable with desktop mode in windows 8. I think windows will survive. Otherwise apple will dictate the price of its equipment with no competition. They refuse to sell their os so people can install in their cheap assembled machines. At least Microsoft is giving a choice for people like me who can build their own machine.

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Response to wisechoice (Reply #120)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:29 PM

122. They will continue to support it , with backend support and updates for a decade...

we all know this, its what they do, especially for enterprise, who will wait for Windows 9 or 10 to restore the interface that's usable in a desktop environment. But, it will be increasingly harder to buy a new computer without Windows 8 preinstalled, and if they stop releasing new keys for the software, then that will harder to find in stores to buy separately for those who build their own.

Like I said below, not interested in Windows 8 until they ungimp the desktop interface and give me the option of having it as default, with yes, a start menu or some type of launcher I shouldn't have to buy for 30 bucks from a third party.

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Response to randome (Reply #30)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:57 PM

38. To support running os in different devices.

Or hybrid devices. It is very convenient than carrying a tablet and a laptop.

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Response to wisechoice (Reply #38)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 08:16 PM

48. Your argument would be valid if they did as I suggested in post 37.

But they didn't.

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Response to wisechoice (Reply #20)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:44 PM

134. Except without tweaks, they forced users to accept metro by default. No business wants to force

Their workers to a new interface unless it buys them something.

Ms could have given users the choice, ie, windows 7 interface or metro, and then let them slowly merge into the new interface when they are ready

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 02:25 PM

4. shit OS, shit company

 

yeah, i want a fisher price OS to do fucking SPREADSHEETS.

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Response to datasuspect (Reply #4)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:23 PM

18. Funny that you say that

because that was the first thought I had when I tried it. The oversized buttons remind me exactly of a fisher price toy computer for 2 year olds.

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Response to datasuspect (Reply #4)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:46 PM

29. You're Making Me Laugh

When one of my friends was part of the pre-release testing of 8 I looked at it and said "Gee, that looks like something I'd see on a PlaySkool Toy."

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Response to datasuspect (Reply #4)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 08:47 PM

65. Best description ever.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 02:29 PM

6. But it's not the fact that no one wants to run a cell phone OS on their desktop!

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 02:55 PM

7. MS may be done

Maybe not completely done. More like no longer the dominant presence it once was sort of done. Like IBM and AT&T done. Around, but no longer the feared giant it once was.

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Response to Yavin4 (Reply #7)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 02:59 PM

9. They need to break themselves up.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 03:24 PM

11. Windows 8 made me switch to Apple recently

 

Don't think I will ever go back to a Windows OS ever again.

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Response to Lesmoderesstupides (Reply #11)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:25 PM

19. Apple is almost as bad with their antiquated interface

Go to Linux mint

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #19)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:49 PM

31. What's so Antiquated About Apple's Interface? I Kind of Like That it...

doesn't all of a sudden change drastically so I have to re-learn an interface like with Microsoft. And while I have one of my machines running Ubuntu it's still easier to use Apple or MS for the availability of the most commonly used programs. Yes, I know there are substitutes for them for LINUX like Open Office and Gimp, etc.

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Response to dballance (Reply #31)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:26 PM

84. Architecturally the OSX interface is very old.

In fact, it's core was released 11 years ago, and is built on even older NEXTStep technologies, which makes it a bit of a dinosaur in the computer world. Apple has done an amazing job at polishing it out and trying to keep it relevant, but you can only stretch an OS so far before you have to revisit the underpinnings. When it was released, even Jobs stated that it would act as the foundation for Apple's operating systems for 15 years or so, and we're now closing in on those final years.

OSX is the technological equivalent of Windows XP. Like XP it works fine and the interface is simple enough, but a decade of research and development means that a new one would be even better today.

I fully expect that we'll start hearing the first rumors of OS11 in the next year or two. And, in all probability, it will support touch and closely integrate with iOS. Everybody else is going down that road, so I don't see Apple sitting by as an also-ran as the technologies converge.

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Response to Xithras (Reply #84)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:02 PM

145. Where is this trend, or meme of "convergence" coming from?

Look I get it, tablets are great computers for the casual to light business market, great for ebooks and other entertainment, light browsing on the internet, and email. But I don't see people using them for heavy IDEs, or for data entry, or for 3D industrial design, or even for set top boxes for more involved gaming, no, desktop PCs excel at all those, and they don't need, nor should they share, the EXACT SAME UI as a touchscreen device, when they themselves will not have touchscreens, or if they do, its at best a gimmick in their environment.

ON EDIT: Also you do know that Windows 8 is just built off of NT technology that is what, almost 20 years old now? They just put a shiny(or matte) new interface over it.

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Response to Xithras (Reply #84)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:45 AM

182. Under the hood of OSX is essentially a derivative of BSD Unix.

And most of that, yes, came through NEXTStep.

Unix has been around since 1970, and has evolved with the times - I'm typing this post right now on a Kubuntu Linux system which is fast and powerful, and has a cool looking UI. Every Android phone every build runs on top of Linux. Windows used to run on top of MS-DOS, but finally with XP, ditched the MS-DOS kernel, except for backwards-compatibility stuff, and runs on an NT-based kernel, which in turn is based on technology developed for OS/2, blended a bit with stuff from VMS.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #182)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 06:45 AM

205. yep and about 95% of the internet is running on linux servers

 

os x and windows now look like 'toy' operating systems by comparison. how the tables have turned.

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Response to dballance (Reply #31)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 08:18 AM

216. Apple's interface takes too many clicks to do anything

It is not at all intuitive and is about 20 years behind the curve in software engineering.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 03:31 PM

13. I'm not fascinated by touch screen technology.




... so I'll just stick with XP & Win 7.

As far as I can tell, touch screen is all W8 has to offer.


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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 03:55 PM

15. I would love to use touchscreen but not at that hardware expense.

I would love to use touchscreen but is it really better than using a mouse?

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Response to LiberalFighter (Reply #15)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:52 PM

33. On a tablet, yes, on a desktop, only if you like neckstrain. n/t

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:32 PM

22. Tablets are okay for office work ...

as long as you can hook them up to a full size monitor, a real keyboard, and a mouse.

Otherwise, they are a step down for most office-related tasks. I can think of lots of ways I could eventually use a good tablet, but none of those functions would replace my desktop.

For me, tablets could easily take the place of a notebook computer. But that's another thing altogether.

Tablets and desktops are two different tools for two different functions. It's okay for their operating systems to be different. Just make them compatible and that is enough.

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Response to dawg (Reply #22)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:34 PM

23. There may be a CEO job opening up soon in Redmond. You should apply!

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Response to dawg (Reply #22)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 05:03 PM

39. I think the problem is that most tablets have arm processors, and Windows RT isn't binary...

compatible with x86 devices(desktops, most laptops) with either Windows, Linux, or MacOS installed. So this would mean, in order to not have a drop in functionality, you would have to roll out the use of these tablets all at once, for every employee, and most small to mid sized business can't eat that cost, not to mention the retraining involved, and large businesses wouldn't want to eat those costs. You also will have to rewrite any custom software you use to be arm compatible, and again, for what gain? So all your employees can take the tablets home to work? Can't you already assign them laptops for the same tasks if necessary, or even have them use their home computer if any?

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:37 PM

25. *shrugs* I like it.

I just got an HP Envy ultrabook, and it has a touchscreen, so the Windows 8 works pretty well. There are a couple of things I'd change, but other than that, it's pretty easy to use, actually.

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Response to knitter4democracy (Reply #25)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:51 PM

32. Pretty easy to use, unless you don't have a touchscreen...

My Brother-in-Law hates Windows 8 because his laptop didn't come with touchscreen, it has a touchpad, like what is default in most laptops(Note: He just bought this laptop, it came with Win8 preinstalled). Trying to unlock the screen is a bloody chore, I tried it, three times, just to get to the goddamned password, so it can be unlocked, something that shouldn't be necessary at all. Hell, I tried it on my own netbook(the pre-release, final version) and I had to uninstall it because my computer screen wasn't high enough resolution for Windows 8's start screen or apps, but it came with Windows 7 preinstalled, for crying out loud!

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Response to Humanist_Activist (Reply #32)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:43 PM

96. That was part of why I got one.

I got a really good deal on this, so I lucked out. Still, I end up using my touchpad quite a bit, too.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:37 PM

26. I'll use Win 8 as soon as

 

hell freezes over. Its an EPIC FAIL.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #26)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:36 PM

127. LOL

I'm with you! Window's 7 runs well for the purposes I need. I had Vista and it was POS. My wife has that computer now and complains about problems with it. I might keep it as a backup computer and put Window 7 on it after she gets the one I'm on now. I go through laptops faster than I do underwear.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:54 PM

34. I wonder how much the topic of this thread has to do with this thread:

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Response to hedgehog (Reply #34)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 06:09 PM

42. Microsoft is the WORST at abusing the H1B system

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 05:24 PM

41. I had an old Vista 32 bit computer that I could never get SP2 installed. I upgraded to Windows 8.

It beats the snot out of Vista and seems to run pretty well generally. It takes some getting used to but IMO you are nuts if you don't upgrade your older PCs to Windows 8 before Feb 1 when the prices goes up. $40 is cheap for the Pro version. After a week or two messing with that, I upgrade my main windows 7 machine as well.

Hardware isn't going obsolete as fast as it used to. The reason Vista was such a hit was machines were going obsolete so fast you needed a new box every couple years to play the new games. Why buy a new PC when you can buy another several years of OS support for $40 and get the pro version to boot, which allows you to remote desktop in on your home network?

And no I don't work for MS, I think Apple makes better stuff, and I have a cheap Android tablet, so I'm not an MS groupie.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 06:21 PM

44. My sister told me today

how much she hates her new laptop with Windows 8. She got it for Christmas and doesn't want to hurt her husband's feelings but she hates it with a passion.

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Response to ohheckyeah (Reply #44)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:56 PM

104. She's just not use to it yet. To her

 

To google when she gets stuck, she'll be an expert and loving it in no time. It's a great OS, and it's the future of home and office compute. One OS for all your devices.

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Response to crazyjoe (Reply #104)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:04 PM

110. It depends on if her laptop has a touchscreen, if it doesn't, its going to suck to interact with it.

Plain and simple truth there, clunky as all hell.

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Response to crazyjoe (Reply #104)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:06 AM

175. I don't think so.

She's not interested in learning a whole new OS. She just wanted a laptop that worked for her needs and Windows 8 doesn't.

I told her about downloading the program that gives you the start button and start menu. That will probably help.

I think it looks ridiculous for a desktop or laptop. Fortunately, 2 of my 3 computers have Windows 7 and one XP. I may upgrade the XP to Windows 7.

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Response to ohheckyeah (Reply #44)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 09:30 AM

217. Buy Windows 7 and install it on her new computer. nt

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Response to Nay (Reply #217)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:12 PM

222. She doesn't want to spend the money

to purchase Windows 7. I did recommend that.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 08:17 PM

49. What's an OEM

and why does the article assume everyone reading will know the acronym?

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Response to Matariki (Reply #49)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 08:24 PM

50. Good point.

OEM = Original Equipment Manufacturer. Dell, HP, Toshiba, etc. All OEMs for Microsoft products. But now Microsoft is competing with their own OEMs by manufacturing the Surface. And then they turn around and complain that other companies aren't helping them out.

It's hilarious.

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Response to randome (Reply #50)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 08:58 PM

68. Thanks!

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Response to randome (Reply #50)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:14 PM

115. While we're at it,

what does "TAB OS" mean? I haven't found anything that defines it in a search (all sites seem to just want to talk about their particular TAB OS, and assume everyone knows what it is.)

Thanks

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Response to kentauros (Reply #115)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:16 PM

116. Tablet OS.

Like for the iPad, Samsung Galaxy Note and now Microsoft Surface.

An OS with touch-screen capabilities designed for smaller devices.

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Response to randome (Reply #116)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:24 PM

119. Thanks :)

I was thinking it was another acronym, like OS (Operating System)

We use Win7 at work. And AutoCAD with dual monitors. I'd hate to have to try and use any graphics software with just my finger...

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Response to kentauros (Reply #119)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:29 PM

121. Yeah, I can imagine how difficult that would be.

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Response to randome (Reply #121)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:40 PM

130. Or this:

How do you right-click your finger?

I use a Wacom Intuos3 graphics tablet at home. I can't imagine replacing that with a touchscreen interface. Although their newest technology merges touchscreen actions (like zoom and pan) with the use of the stylus. It's pretty cool what they've done there.

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Response to kentauros (Reply #130)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:45 PM

136. Easy. They'll just do away with context menus. Problem solved!

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Response to randome (Reply #136)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:47 PM

137. Probably get rid of keyboard shortcuts after that, after all its not like you need it with...

a brand new shiny touchscreen!

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Response to Humanist_Activist (Reply #137)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:50 PM

142. I wonder how many would start bootlegging Win7

were they to do something as abysmally stupid as that? (and I wouldn't put it past them to think it was a good idea...)

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Response to kentauros (Reply #142)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:57 PM

143. Well technically people have been bootlegging Win7 since it was released...

but I imagine that the bootleggers are going to go strong throughout Win8's lifecycle, and Win8 won't be what is bootlegged. Kinda like Windows XP after Vista was released *ahem* not that I know anything about that!

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Response to Humanist_Activist (Reply #143)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:30 AM

189. Suuuuuuure you don't.

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Response to kentauros (Reply #189)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:34 AM

201. I paid for my version of Windows 7, over a hundred dollars(Professional edition)...

I wouldn't buy Windows 8 for 15 dollars, what does that tell you?

Microsoft fucked up on this one.

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Response to Humanist_Activist (Reply #201)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 07:35 AM

214. I'll probably buy a copy of Win7 soon,

once I have a new system built. I want to take advantage of 64-bit and more than 3.2 Gb of RAM

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Response to randome (Reply #136)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:49 PM

139. NOOOOOO!

I can't use AutoCAd without them. Or not without losing a serious about of speed.

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Response to Matariki (Reply #49)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 08:29 PM

54. Original Equipment Manufacturer

Dell, HP, Acer, Asus, Apple, all are 'OEMs'

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Response to Matariki (Reply #49)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:47 PM

99. Thank you!

I had no idea.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 08:26 PM

51. OEMs? nt

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 08:27 PM

52. Awww...Windows SparklePony is tanking in the marketplace?

Gosh, how shocking! Desktop and laptop users aren't interested in a tablet OS. Who'd have thought...?

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Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #52)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:29 PM

158. But...it's...it's so colorful.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 08:29 PM

53. Here on DU, I must be one of the 10 people that like Windows 8.

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Response to BlueJazz (Reply #53)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 08:30 PM

55. There's only 3

sorry


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Response to BlueJazz (Reply #53)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 08:31 PM

56. You must not use it for much, then.

Laptops and desktops are how the vast majority of people get their jobs done. Tablets are leisure devices, not workhorses.

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Response to randome (Reply #56)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 08:38 PM

59. I use it all the time but it took me awhile to learn the shortcuts. I DO use 7 for my....

...recording work 'cause I'm more familiar with it..

...and I do agree that changing an office full of users (to 8) would most likely not be the wisest thing to do.

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Response to BlueJazz (Reply #59)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 08:46 PM

64. Whatever gets the job done is cool.

I just doubt that most people can be very productive with 8.

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Response to BlueJazz (Reply #59)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:02 PM

72. Haha

I work for Microsoft and my whole team got upgraded to windows 8. Fortunately I telecommute and didn't have to.

There was a definite learning curve for my coworkers.

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Response to BlueJazz (Reply #53)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:00 PM

71. Do you use it on your PC or a tablet?

If PC, did you do anything to compensate for the lack of a start menu?

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Response to Matariki (Reply #71)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:43 PM

97. Just hit the Windows key (which brings up the start screen) and start typing

It searches through all of your programs. If you can type, it's faster than wading through the old click-through start menu.

I have about a half dozen programs pinned to the taskbar and those encompass at least 90% of my time. For getting to common folders quickly, I have pinned them to the jump menu which comes when right clicking the file explorer icon in the taskbar. I have a few shortcuts on the desktop for less frequently accessed programs, but most often I just run those from the start screen anyway.

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Response to high density (Reply #97)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:50 PM

100. What's different between that and how Windows 7 works, hit the windows key and start typing...

besides that, Windows 8 search sucks, it goes through apps only, then you have to specify files and settings separately, whereas in Windows 7 start menu, you have it categorized for you, from applications to files, so you can search for both. Not to mention Windows 8 is inconsistent, and takes up the entire screen, while the Windows 7 start menu is far less obstructive.

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Response to BlueJazz (Reply #53)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:20 PM

79. I like it

unlike most people who hate certain tech, I took the time to learn the OS.

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Response to BlueJazz (Reply #53)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:32 PM

89. I built a new computer a few weeks ago and installed Windows 8

I'm having to unlearn some stuff I've done for nearly two decades, but I'm getting accustomed to it. I thought I would really miss the start menu, but pinning common programs to the taskbar plus instant searching from the start screen is better. Beyond that, it is really fast. I am happy with my decision to go with 8 instead of 7. I do think MS is trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist in bringing a tablety OS to the desktop. People already to know how to use Windows and iPads, and I don't know if we really need to try and merge the two.

I ran Vista for years and I liked that OS as well (which is essentially Windows 7 with an uglier taskbar and slower boot/shutdown times.) I feel like 8, with its awkward split between the desktop and the "modern" interface, is another sort of transitional OS like Vista was.

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Response to BlueJazz (Reply #53)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:40 PM

162. I do to. But mostly gates haters here. No logic behind it.

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Response to Logical (Reply #162)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:43 PM

165. Question, what advantages would I have upgrading from Windows 7 to Windows 8?

Note, this is on a desktop computer that runs through a 40 inch HDTV as the primary display, with wireless mouse and keyboard that are on the couch.

So answer my question, what advantage would I have to upgrading?

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Response to Logical (Reply #162)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:32 AM

198. or people who don't want to waste money on something they don't need. nt

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 08:34 PM

57. Any news as to if they will extend the $15 upgrade offer then?

I have a bought a couple of licenses already.

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Response to MattBaggins (Reply #57)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 08:41 PM

61. Buy something useful with the $15

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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #61)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 08:55 PM

66. It's incredibly useful

If you know how to fix the stupid UI and silly start screen and realize you don't have to use the crappy app store, Windows 8 is a great upgrade and one hell of a bargain at $15.

You can make windows boot to the desktop.
You can bring back the old start menu or make the start screen pop up inside a desktop window.
You can remove all the stupid "apps" and not use the craptastic store either.

There will be more and better choices for hacking the desktop coming down the pipeline, and even MS will be forced to release a patch to allow users to choose a classic environment.

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Response to MattBaggins (Reply #66)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 08:59 PM

69. Why do you have to "fix" it?

Windows 7 is perfectly fine and still sold by most OEMs

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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #69)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:22 PM

81. You have to fix it

because the UI is stupid.

However Win 8 is faster, better memory management, the task manager is more useful, better control,(although the idiots removed F8 at start up). I find the parental controls system still needs much work but is helpful for me in managing my kids computer time and access.

Yes Ballmer is a complete idiot and should be fired but the core of Win 8 is better than 7.

I would not under any circumstance pay the usual $300+ price for it but a license for Win8Pro can be purchased for $15 until this Thursday and at that price it is more than worth it.

If is was the old school pricing levels I would wait til they released SP1 but at the promotional price I am grabbing them now. They will most likely continue the offer but I decided to grab them now.

At $15 I'm willing to see how it works as a calibre server on a 5 year old comp in a closet. Might try it out as a NAS, media server or whatever crazy idea I feel like playing with. Yes I know I can use Linux or BSD for all of those, and do so, but I actually am tired of trying to teach all my none geek friends how to do shit. I want to hand them something to plug in and play and leave me alone.

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Response to MattBaggins (Reply #81)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:12 PM

114. Sounds like Windows 8 is Windows 7 SP2(or is it 3?), but with a stupid IU tacked onto it...

Sounds like Microsoft fleecing their customers again.

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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #69)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:29 PM

86. VERY difficult to organize the Start Menu.

A clumsy, cluttered 2-paned menu system.

It boots up and shuts down much faster, I'll give it that.

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Response to randome (Reply #86)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:33 PM

90. There is a GREAT new app that returns the start menu

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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #90)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:38 PM

94. Sounds like a good one!

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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #90)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:15 PM

152. Skip metro ui

winaero.com is great website for fixing Windows 8

another start button http://www.classicshell.net/
or pokki https://www.pokki.com/windows-8-start-menu

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Response to randome (Reply #86)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:49 AM

183. Gawd, the Win8 Start screen is an angry fruit salad!

Look at all the pretty colors! Red and green and blue and purple and orange and everything's animated and flashing at you and trying to get your attention!

With this, and the ease of access to guns in this country, the results going to be a lot of computers getting shot...

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 08:41 PM

60. I think I'll stick with 7 for the time being

If I want a computer that looks like an Android phone, I'll just buy an Android phone.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 08:43 PM

62. Microsoft should blame Microsoft for that piece of trash

People are not stupid.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:12 PM

76. Meanwhile Acer and Samsung can't keep Chromebooks in stock!

Acer Sees Success in Chrome; Windows Fails to Drive Sales

Acer Inc. (2353), the Taiwanese computer maker that’s suffered two consecutive annual losses, posted strong sales of notebooks using Google Inc. (GOOG)’s Chrome platform after the release of Microsoft Corp. (MSFT)’s Windows 8 failed to ignite the market.

Chrome-based models accounted for 5 percent to 10 percent of Acer’s U.S. shipments since being released there in November, President Jim Wong said in an interview at the Taipei-based company’s headquarters. That ratio is expected to be sustainable in the long term and the company is considering offering Chrome models in other developed markets, he said.

Acer, which last week announced a NT$3.5 billion ($120 million) write-off on the value of its Gateway, Packard Bell and eMachines brands that pushed it into losses, is looking for alternatives as Windows-based computers struggle amid rising popularity of tablets and smartphones. Global computer industry shipments dropped 6.4 percent in the fourth quarter despite Microsoft’s latest operating system being released during the period, according to IDC Corp.

“Windows 8 itself is still not successful,” said Wong, whose company posted a 28 percent drop in fourth-quarter shipments from a year earlier. “The whole market didn’t come back to growth after the Windows 8 launch, that’s a simple way to judge if it is successful or not.”


The $200 Acer Chromebook and especially the $250 Samsung Chromebook are hard to get.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:13 PM

77. Wonder if

the relaunch will include a start button?

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Response to krawhitham (Reply #78)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:21 PM

80. Figures may be inflated

Corporate America sure hasn't sprung.


I think this is important to look at

http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10


Windows 8 is 1.45% of market.


That isn't 60,000,000 licenses.


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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #80)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:25 PM

83. Yeah most of those are probably volume licenses

for OEMs and haven't even been installed on any machines yet.

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Response to MattBaggins (Reply #83)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:35 PM

91. If PC sales dropped 11% last quarter, that means a LOT of licenses aren't sold

IPad is killing the PC business for casual users

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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #91)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:03 PM

109. As it should

If you want to surf the web and play facebook level games who needs a $600 dollar laptop.

Although I would still buy a Nook HD+ and put CM on it. Better hardware, better OS, full control and much cheaper.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:23 PM

82. Windows, a virus trap.

Microsoft produces the most insecure platform on the planet. I haven't had an invasion in over 15 years, when I switched from Windows to Linux. Even my multiple Inet servers were safe. Meanwhile, Windows remains the most insecure platform which says a lot about the fact that put marketing above quality.

Windows is rubbish. Always has been. Always will be.

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Response to longship (Reply #82)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:52 PM

101. Virus writers target market share, and Windows has that many times over Linux

Windows 8 comes with a full-fledged AV now, called Windows Defender. It had been available for a while as "Microsoft Security Essentials," but it was previously a separate download.

I've been running Windows since version 3.0 and I've never had a problem with viruses. (I've also been running Linux separately for about a decade.)

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Response to high density (Reply #101)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:11 PM

113. And Linux has a built-in defense.

It's called inherent security. No add-ins necessary when your platform solves the issue at its core.

That's the difference in philosophy between Windows and a real operating system platform. With Microsoft, security is an add on. With Linux, it's built in at its core.

That's why Microsoft will always be insecure and why Linux will always be the security standard, no matter how many people adopt it.

What percentage of Inet servers run Linux? What percentage of supercomputers run Linux?

I give you, the ALMA Correlator, one of the most powerful computers on the planet. It runs on a Linux platform, not Windows.

Here's a pic of it:


By the way, they can't use hard drives because the flying heads don't work at the altitude of 5000 meters. It has over 134 million processors and can handle 17 quadrillion calculations a second.

Windows was never a candidate here. They went with Linux, where the cutting edge resides.

Get over it.

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Response to longship (Reply #113)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:30 PM

123. Virus can be written for ANY OS

You sound as smug as any iPOS addict. And didn't they have a problem not too long ago.

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #123)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:33 PM

125. True, but it takes a lot more effort to mess up Linux system files...

a virus can fuck up the userspace really bad, but its much, much more difficult for it to access vital system files and settings, to, for example, make the computer unusable.

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Response to Humanist_Activist (Reply #125)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:35 PM

126. Not all the virus writers are script kiddies.

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #126)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:38 PM

129. True, but Windows doesn't have that stark line between system and user that *nix systems...

do, that leaves it inherently more vulnerable to certain types of hacks, viruses and worms. Am I saying those systems are impossible to hack? No of course not, but they are, in a very real sense, much more secure.

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #123)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:49 PM

141. Addict? I use what works.

I stopped using Windows when I saw that Microsoft only released upgrades on Windows NT when it took a big security hit, which they viewed as a failure, but they chose to whitewash rather than fix. Furthermore, due to Windows OS secrecy, fixes are only released as a whole OS update. There are no patches, like have been standard in Linux since day one.

With Linux, bugs are fixed. With Windows you have to wait for the next big release where you have no choice but to choose all or none.

Linux is an open platform. All the source code is free and downloadable and reviewable for problems. When a security issue is revealed, it is quickly fixed by the user base. With Windows, you have to wait until Bill Gates, or his minions, decide it is a problem, usually too late.

Windows utterly sucks. Open source just works.

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Response to longship (Reply #141)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 06:42 AM

204. I fix computers for a living so I'm quite well versed in the foibles of Windoze.

My personal computers that I do run Windows on have no problems but I have heavily tweaked a lot of the default settings. My laptop and my HTPC both run Mint 13. I run different versions of Windows on 4 computers so that I can figure out what the problem may be on some of my customer's machines.
As far as security is concerned, it's been almost 10 years since I've been hit by a virus and it was on a CD someone gave me. 99% of windows security issues are solved by turning OFF remote access, not using IE or Outlook.

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Response to longship (Reply #141)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 08:07 AM

215. made the switch 2 years ago and not looking back

windows 8 is garbage-avoid buying a computer for a bit. Ubuntu has the same style interface as windows 8, but the problems go deeper than just missing the start button. The "programs" are now "apps". People use a cellphone style interface for surfing the net and tagging friends on facebook, not for being productive at work. If they are trying to make their OS an all in one os for all devices, have the installer detect what the device is and install accordingly, and INCLUDE EVERYTHING! When I open MS word, I just want it to fucking work! I don't want to go through a whole process to buy it!
If I buy a computer off the shelf and it is preloaded with an OS, there is NO REASON why I cannot just turn it on, configure my email and go.

If people have to re-learn windows every time there is a new release, I am going to teach them linux. I learned it once 2 years ago and have been fine for the past 4 releases!

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Response to longship (Reply #113)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:41 PM

132. Get over what?

Run whatever works for you. I find Windows runs just fine. I find Linux runs just fine. I use them each for unique duties. And I find the best security is being not an idiot when you use a computer.

Also, building an operating system that runs a custom supercomputer is going to be much easier with open source infrastructure, so I'm not sure how Windows even enters into that ridiculous argument. Next you'll be lecturing me how much better Cummins diesel truck engines are over Briggs and Stratton lawnmower engines. They each have their own optimal applications.

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Response to high density (Reply #132)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:17 PM

153. Well, I guess you have to understand the differences.

Linux is an actual operating system, a set of programs which form a kernel that bridges the gap between hardware and software. The main difference between Linux and Windows is that Linux does that task without specifying any user interface characteristics, whereas Windows puts those very characteristics into the kernel.

I know that this a difference in philosophy, but it is also why Linux is used as the base of many Internet platforms, as well as nearly all the supercomputers, and Windows is not. It is also why Windows is so susceptible to viruses when Linux is not.

When you mix user space with system space, nothing good will happen. That is something Windows has always done, and Linux (and all the Unices) have almost never done. It's what makes my Linux systems secure and what makes people's Windows systems insecure.

I have never had to run virus protection on any of my Linux boxes, which have included many Internet servers.

Windows sucks. It is full of security holes which are inherent in its flawed design and its marketing.

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Response to longship (Reply #113)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:00 PM

144. not true

"Linux was the most-attacked online server operating system in August, according to a report from mi2g, a digital risk assessment company based in London. In August, 67% of all overt digital attacks targeted Linux. Windows received 23.2% of the attacks. "
http://www.esecurityplanet.com/trends/article.php/3086051/Is-Linux-Really-More-Secure-Than-Windows.htm

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Response to wisechoice (Reply #144)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:20 PM

155. Of course they are going to be more attacked, but the article also mentioned...

that viruses and worms infecting Windows computers caused a lot more financial damage. Also most the attacks on servers are in a form that no OS can really guard against, DDOS attacks and the like, OS security is never compromised, but the computer may still be taken down by other means. Then again, a hammer can break a computer too, doesn't mean the OS it is on is at fault.

Also the article doesn't mention that all applications in Windows run as root, or at system level, whereas in Linux they do not.

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Response to wisechoice (Reply #144)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:32 PM

160. Huh?

That's because most Internet servers are Linux servers.

So if you are going to attack Inet servers you are of course going to disproportionally attack Linux servers.

Doh!

I will still put Linux up against WinBlows any time.

Windows cannot do this:

The ALMA Correlator

And Linux has been doing things like this for many years.

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Response to longship (Reply #160)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:17 AM

179. same argument for windows.

There are a lot more windows users than linux users. That is why windows is targeted more

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Response to wisechoice (Reply #179)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:43 AM

181. Windows users are targetted because Windows is insecure.

That's what happens when one integrates user code into system code, where the demarcation between the two becomes a open door for invasion. This is something what Microsoft has always done, and what Unix (aka, Linux) has never done.

System space is system space and is inviolate. User space is open to the user. If somebody hacks into one of my Linux boxens, they can screw up my pron downloads, but they will have a hard time messing up my OS.

In Windows, the user interface is so integrated with the OS, that the two are one. In Linux, they are so separated that I can replace the entire user interface without even rebooting. Try that with stupid Windows.

The X Window System does everything that Microsoft Windows does, and more. I can run a graphical program on one of my networked computers, and display it on another. I can even do that to view movies on one computer while using another to decode the VOB. The video transparently goes over the Inet link.

Try that with fucking Windows! I know! It's not possible. Well, you may be right. It isn't possible on Windows, but it's been possible under Unix since X was invented.

Unix philosophy is different. It's about getting the most from the least. Microsoft does the same. But they are solely worried about getting the most money out of technology, and Linux is doing the opposite.

Viva la difference.

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Response to longship (Reply #181)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:55 AM

193. each is good in its own ways

I have installed many linux versions and they have crashed many a times. Linux lacks proper drivers. Bugs don't get fixed right away. There is no working mapi support so far. All mapi implementations have been a major headache to get it working. No proper flash support, no clear case and etc. I can go on.

Windows kernel is also protected. It runs in kernel mode. It doesn't have root user concept but can be mimicked using Administrator account and restricted user account. I gave my kid a separate account with restrictions on the internet which I cannot do with same confidence on linux.

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Response to wisechoice (Reply #193)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:31 AM

197. That's why Windows has virus software protection software (big money there) and Linux doesn't.

Windows is insecure rubbish and Linux isn't.

Didn't I show you this?


Amongst the largest super computers doesn't run on lame Windows. It runs on Linux. This one is above 5000 km (that's kilometers, feet are over 16,000), which means that the air density is insufficient to provide lift for a hard drive head.

Shit gets real at above 5000 meters. Microsoft doesn't give a shit. That's why the only supercomputer operating above 5000 meters (and the largest one on the planet today) runs Linux.

But Microsoft can still play games.
Like that is what's it all about.

Dum, De, Dum, Dumb!

Dumb are those who think Microsoft Windows is a good thing.

Linux isn't everything, but at least it's secure.

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Response to longship (Reply #197)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 07:04 AM

207. guess i should have kept scrolling before mouthing off.

 

'winders can plays gamez!'

that's what 'wine' is for.

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Response to longship (Reply #113)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:24 PM

156. Don't forget all those Android Phones

running on Linux they are.

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Response to MattBaggins (Reply #156)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:45 AM

190. And Apple's OS is based on Unix, too.

Only Microsoft bases their OS on a proprietary kernel. Open source is the way. It allows peer review. Not a philosophy popular at Microsoft. OS technology is not a secret. What works best are the problems which the brightest people can solve. No one company, no matter how large their resources, can compete with an OS which has no goal other than to be the best there is.

Linux isn't there yet, and may never be there. But at least Linux has a methodology and the willingness to share solutions to real problems. That's a software development model which works.

Microsoft Windows is long proved to be a security risk. Linux just works.

Microsoft has no supercomputers on the top lists. Linux has many.

Android cell phones work on a Linux core. So does the largest supercomputer on the planet.

I would put Linux tech against Microsoft garbage any day.

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Response to longship (Reply #113)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:26 AM

186. One of the things I love about Linux...

Is that it can run on anything from little embedded devices like a Raspberry Pi to a smartphone/tablet to a PC to a high-powered workstation to a server, or server farm, or a mainframe, or as you mentioned, a full-blown supercomputer.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #186)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:30 AM

187. Yup! That's what totally open technology gives you.

And what the totally closed Microsoft technology will never have.

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Response to longship (Reply #187)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:25 AM

195. windows can run on smart phones and super computers

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Response to wisechoice (Reply #195)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:50 AM

199. Why then do so many supercomputers run variants of Linux?

Read about it here

Get used to the fact that Windows is a commercial product and Linux is what computer geeks use. Even Wall Street uses Linux. Just shows that even evil can use otherwise innocuous technology.

Microsoft is anything but innocuous.

And their OS is inherently insecure.

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Response to longship (Reply #199)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:01 PM

221. Why do so many desktops run windows

I know linux is good. Does not mean windows is bad. Windows works well for laptop/desktops. I can work with linux on my desktop. But many cannot. 'Linux is absolutely the best for all' is fanboyish talk. I disagree that windows OS is inherently insecure.

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Response to wisechoice (Reply #195)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 04:12 AM

202. Actually Windows doesn't scale that well...

granted supercomputers nowadays are simply PCs with massive parallel processing in them, think stacks of motherboards, thousands of them. However, up until recently, Windows supported a total of one, single core, CPU. The Server editions have multiple CPU support, and now, with Windows Vista and up(forgot whether XP supports multiple processors), dual and quad core support as well, something Linux had since the mid 90s or so.

Now the server editions of Windows can have up to 64 CPUs and I believe 2TB of RAM, whereas for Linux, it scales to about anywhere from 32 to 512 CPUs, theoretically 4096 CPU support is possible, but only used for testing purposes, and up to 64 TB of physical RAM and 128 TB of Virtual RAM. With the open source kernel, you can modify it for your needs, so technically there is no limit, but for practical purposes there are.

So yes, Windows does run on supercomputers, just not the fastest ones in existence, more on the lower end of the scale.

Note, that for Linux, there is a large amount of source compatibility, regardless of architecture it runs on, with little modification needed, the same cannot be said for Windows.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #186)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 07:07 AM

208. yep and the next ubuntu will run on both mobile and conventional.

 

the same exact operating system not a different version will run on any scale of machine. if that's not awesome then we need a new word that's awesomer.

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Response to high density (Reply #101)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 07:02 AM

206. true market share is a factor but not as big as all that.

 

windows only has a corner on the commercial desktop/laptop market. most government, industrial and corporate information infrastructure runs on the same o.s. as the internet.. some kind of unix. if virus writers really wanted to make an impact you'd think they'd target these systems not grandma's old gateway.

fact is virus writers write for windows for a combination of reasons.. commercial market share, yes.. and in part because its users tend to be on the shallow-end of the techno-savvy pool so don't take precautions, yes..

but also because windows cares more about the security of microsoft's licenses than the security of its userspace. it's stupidly easy to write virus for windows that can wreak havok because there's no clearly defined security layer between the kernel and the program space. it would be hella hard if not impossible to write for instance a rootkit virus for linux.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:37 PM

93. I spent time with Windows 8 last week and think Bill

Gates should be stranded on a remote island forever. I miss my fallen Windows XP. This old dog truly can't learn new tricks!

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:42 PM

95. Give it time, it will catch on.

 

It's really the next evolution in compute. Same OS on all your devices, cloud storage, touch screen/voice commands.
The public (and the hardware) will catch up.
I seem to remember a huge outcry of epic fail when DUv2 came on line.
"This sucks!! Hard to navigate!! I'm staying with the old DU!!"
Give me a break....

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Response to crazyjoe (Reply #95)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:55 PM

102. Really, do you want to reach across a cubicle desk to click on things rather than using a mouse?

Are you mad? Wave of the future, for what? Increasing sales of neck braces?

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Response to Humanist_Activist (Reply #102)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:09 PM

148. i don't understand your complaint.

Nobody is taking your mouse away with windows 8

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Response to wisechoice (Reply #148)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:11 PM

150. But the interface(Metro) isn't designed with the mouse in mind...

its clunky and slow.

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Response to Humanist_Activist (Reply #150)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:10 AM

176. exact same situation as os x.

You need to run the application launcher to click an icon to start a program. In windows 8 , you press the windows keys and lunch from the tiles. Minor difference. Once you have application running on the desktop, your mouse and keyboard works same in both osx and windows. Same with Gnome (Linux).

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Response to wisechoice (Reply #176)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:14 AM

177. One minor difference, the search you keep touting is only for metro apps, which are either full...

screen or half screen, so multi-tasking is not practical. Oh and make sure to hit Alt-f4 if you can remember, or try to throw it down with a Goddamned mouse gesture(I hate those things), if you need to close it.

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Response to Humanist_Activist (Reply #177)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:35 AM

180. i never mentioned search.

App search is for all apps. I just tried and launched command prompt and word.

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Response to wisechoice (Reply #180)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:57 AM

185. Good, now click on settings, does it list all of them that are available, or do you have to...

search for them. Also, where the fuck is the control panel?

Tell me the minimum you would have to do in Windows 8 to get to the control panel. I'll tell you how in Windows 7, click Start, Click Control Panel. Go!

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Response to Humanist_Activist (Reply #185)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:57 AM

194. search "control panel" and you will get control panel icon

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Response to wisechoice (Reply #194)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:31 AM

200. So more effort than is required in Windows 7, and this is a step forward? n/t

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Response to Humanist_Activist (Reply #200)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 09:47 AM

218. not necessarily. press windows key and start typing control panel.

It is faster than moving your mouse to start menu and navigating to the control panel.
I don't know why you hate windows 8. Probably you don't know too. It is probably because either you are a fanboy of apple or linux.
I have linux, mac and windows and I am happy with all three of them.

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Response to wisechoice (Reply #218)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:03 PM

220. Please. Two mouse clicks compared to one keyboard press and an unknown number of characters to type?

Plus, with the mouse, you don't need to take your attention away from the screen. With the keyboard, you do, unless you have it positioned firmly in your mind at all times.

I don't know why you seem to want to 'defend' Win8. Different people have different experiences and work habits. The general consensus seems to be that most people do NOT like Win8. It's not necessary that you understand this and try to 'convince' us we're wrong. That would be like convincing us that brussel sprouts taste good. (They do, BTW. I love 'em!)

We don't like it. It does not fit within our organizational paradigm.

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Response to wisechoice (Reply #176)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 07:11 AM

209. and that worked so well for gnome3 and unity didn't it?

 

it was really nice of ubuntu to give linux mint such a huge boost. gnome3 and unity are officially unmitigated disasters.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:45 PM

98. Mac doesn't have a start button either, BTW

 

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:00 PM

107. How about it sucks?

So tired of this fucking game with a new OS every fucking year or two.

Screw Microshaft. I swear I'm gonna buy a cheap second computer and learn that Linux shit one of these days.

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Response to tabasco (Reply #107)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 07:15 AM

210. in the last few years.. like less than five..

 

linux has gotten way easier to learn, install, and use. i installed mint on my son's computer and now all his friends keep asking me to hook them up too. the learning curve isn't bad at all now and the user experience is somewhere between windows and os x. out of the box for instance linux mint feels a *lot* like windows xp.

added.. btw installing dual-boot windows/linux has never been easier. my mom could do it.. not that she'd try.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:23 PM

118. I'll only buy Windows 8 after Service Pack 1 restores the start menu and desktop as default.

Until then, sticking with Windows 7, and if Steam gets the Linux ball rolling really well, switching to Linux permanently.

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Response to Humanist_Activist (Reply #118)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:41 PM

131. Actually if someone wanted to do a few tweaks they could have the interface setup so it looked like

Windows 7.

In fact that is what ms should have done in the first place, so users could slowly transition into the metro interface

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Response to still_one (Reply #131)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:43 PM

133. I try to avoid third parties, who's support may fall apart, to create vital parts...

of the windows interface for me. Except on Linux, but I have some assurance with the nature of open source that most of the stuff on their will be supported in some fashion for a long time.

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Response to Humanist_Activist (Reply #133)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:48 PM

138. It is built on top of windows 7 and most of the tweaks you can do, but it is not straight forward

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Response to still_one (Reply #131)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:45 PM

135. Also, I don't feel like spending money on what is, without the metro interface, is simply...

a service pack to Windows 7.

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Response to Humanist_Activist (Reply #135)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:49 PM

140. That is true, which is why they are not charging as much as they usually do for the upgrade

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:31 PM

124. All I have to say to Micro$haft is this

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:38 PM

128. Bullshit. They should have given users the option of metro verses desktop with the start button.

No business will go with windows 8 with the metro GUI. They have to slowly transition into it, which is why they should have allowed an easy way for users to setup the look and feel using the windows 7 interface or the metro interface

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Response to still_one (Reply #128)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:31 PM

159. What about the flip side. The poor tablet users

who are forced to use the desktop for anything important.

edit your registry on a 7 inch tablet in desktop mode? omg

change settings in device manager? lol

I have more sympathy for them than desktop users who have to turn off metro crap. Win 8 tablet users have no hacks or tweaks for their headaches.

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Response to MattBaggins (Reply #159)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:36 PM

161. Note: That would only be accessible on Windows 8 x86 tablets, Arm tablets(i.e. the majority)...

that run Windows RT don't have a desktop mode at all.

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Response to Humanist_Activist (Reply #161)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:42 PM

164. Thank you for that correction

It also goes to show how stupid they were with "metro" and PC being bolted together. They claimed users would need to be forced to learn both systems yet they come out with RT that disproves what they claimed.

Do you get the feeling they had two development teams and suddenly assigned a third team to take the two systems and smush them together.

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Response to MattBaggins (Reply #164)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:47 PM

166. Yeah, it is stupid, I mean, yes different architectures remove binary compatibility...

but if you were smart about it, you would increase interoperability between devices, rather than trying to tack on tablet UIs onto desktop computers.

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Response to MattBaggins (Reply #164)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 07:30 AM

211. i think it seems that way only because they probably had 2 dev teams and

 

suddenly assigned a 3rd team to take over. no in all seriousness you're probably right. a clue maybe in the fact that they started work on windows 8 before windows 7 had even been released?

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Response to Humanist_Activist (Reply #161)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:56 AM

219. Not True. Windows RT has desktop mode

I don't know where you are getting all this info. I bet you have not used windows 8.

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Response to wisechoice (Reply #219)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:29 PM

226. But can it run programs that would run in Windows 8 in desktop mode? n/t

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Response to Humanist_Activist (Reply #226)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 04:00 PM

227. Can apps running on linux super computers run on my desktop linux

Binary incompatible. So what is your point?

Linux is good. Mac is good.
Windows 8 is good. It works well for laptops with touch screen. It is something Microsoft did to stop ipads stealing away the market share. If you don't like it use windows 7 or linux or mac. You got to stop giving misinformation about windows 8.
I don't get the posts like ' can windows do this, do that and windows 8 is crap'

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Response to MattBaggins (Reply #159)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:56 PM

170. Businesses are not going to put up with metro.

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Response to still_one (Reply #128)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:30 AM

188. Microsoft's biggest error was grafting Metro together with classic Windows.

You essentially have two user interfaces and OS desktops hacked up into pieces-parts and sewn together like Frankenstein's monster.

If they did a pure Metro-based design, and had everything running in Metro, essentially it wouldn't be Windows anymore - the UI conventions would be different, but if they were consistent with that, they could have made it work. Or they could have set Metro aside for another project, given Windows 8 a conventional Windows interface that's much like Windows 7, and that would have been fine.

But no, they put Windows and Metro in the blender together, set it on puree, ran it, poured it into a baking pan, baked it on 350, and the end result for the users was as appetizing as Nutraloaf.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:03 PM

146. Touchscreen is great for tablets, but who would want it for a desktop?

The mouse just seems so much more efficient for a desktop, having to constantly extend your arm towards the monitor just seems awkward and tiring. I want a Windows 8 tablet because it looks like a great OS for tablets, but I sure don't want it on my laptop.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #146)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:10 PM

149. This is what I don't get, a lot of people are talking about this convergence...

of different computers as a great thing, when the way we interact with them is extremely different, what works for one, like a tablet, doesn't work well for the other, like a desktop with keyboard and mouse. That's just common sense, yet people want to throw that that bit of wisdom out the Windows for no reason at all.

Microsoft can easy have a "desktop" edition of Win8 and a "tablet" edition of the same OS, that are binary compatible, seems to make the most sense, doesn't it.

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Response to Humanist_Activist (Reply #149)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:51 PM

168. They have been asleep for 5 years at least

Every one and their brother/sister has a comp/laptop plus a smart phone and an ipad/kindle/nook and have learned to use each of them with ease.

My 7 year old daughter knows how to use all of the above but MS thinks people are to stupid to handle two versions of windows.

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Response to MattBaggins (Reply #168)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:58 PM

171. The biggest problem for Microsoft is that there is no such thing as one interface to rule them all.

And their LCARS knockoff isn't a step forward by any means.

Different devices have different interfaces for practical reasons. I'm not going to write up my TPS reports on a damned tablet, and but I will type up a quick email on my tablet or phone.

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Response to Humanist_Activist (Reply #171)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:01 AM

173. I can't even do that

I have the worst case of fat finger disease and 20/40 vision to go with it.

Tried editing a friends website on my phone once...once

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Response to Humanist_Activist (Reply #171)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 07:32 AM

212. if windows 8 really was an lcars u.i. i'd be on board.

 

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Response to Humanist_Activist (Reply #149)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:49 AM

192. Yeah, I'm with you. People don't use tablets or smartphones in the same way as desktops.

Trying to shoehorn an interface that works both on tablets/smartphones, and on desktop systems gives you a UI that's obnoxious to use on both.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #146)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:19 PM

154. That's the Gorilla Arm.

That's why touchscreens briefly became a trend back in the early 80's then died out - people didn't want to be holding their arms up in front of them trying to exercise fine motor control in the form of little pointing motions. You ended up with sore arms, felt like you had the arms of a gorilla, and just found the whole experience annoying.

You'd think that Microsoft, of all companies would know better than to repeat the Gorilla Arm mistake. Touch screens work on tablets and smartphones because they're little gadgets you're holding in your hands, as they're resting on your lap. No gorilla arm there.

For desktops with vertical monitors set at eye level, it's an epic fail. And the supposed alternative UI tropes that people are supposed to learn so they can use Windows 8 with the mouse are not intuitive, so the experience is annoying.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #154)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:58 PM

172. We used a form of that of "exercise" (punishment) in basic training

"Cherry Pickers" stand with your hands straight out or over your head and wiggle your fingers till your eyes tear up.

Seems harmless. It's not. It hurts.

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Response to MattBaggins (Reply #172)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 07:34 AM

213. its a shaolin exercise too. feel the burn!

 

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #154)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:29 PM

225. This was such a poorly thought out exercise it amazes me they thought it would work

We tried touch screens a couple of years ago for one deparment. Strange one day they were all on the floor broken, must have been a shock wave..........

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:41 PM

163. Your hate of Microsoft is almost silly! You make me laugh! n-t

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Response to Logical (Reply #163)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:47 AM

191. There's plenty to hate with Windows 8.

As most of the people in this thread have already pointed out, Windows 8's user-interface is horribly brain-damaged. Compared with Windows 7 or virtually any other modern operating system, it's a usability nightmare.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:06 AM

174. I spend half my life telling my kids NOT to touch the screen of our desktop PC

with their greasy fingers.

A mouse is a perfect controller for a desktop PC. Touchscreen in this environment is just change for the sake of it.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:16 AM

178. I really, really dislike Windows 8

and I tell everybody

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:31 AM

196. No, Thanks. XP is still working fine for me.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:54 PM

223. Long-time Windows user and tech-support rep here.

What the hell was Microsoft thinking with THIS piece of crap????

They were obviously trying to make it difficult for people who have ever used ANY version of Windows prior to this. And they succeeded.

Windows 8 SUCKS BIG ONES.

Bake

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:25 PM

224. I'm neither wed nor in righteous opposition to any OS.

I like the new OS... but then again, I'm neither wed nor in righteous opposition to any OS. We began testing it at the office last month, and there's been zero problems with it. And, as I'll drink either Coke or Pepsi depending on which one's available, I'm pretty comfortable with all I've worked with.



Sometimes I do wish I was a touch melodramatic about OS's as are so many others... seems like I'm not wearing the right t-shirt every time it comes up, and someone raises their fist righteously in the air and proclaims that the OS is the work of the devil.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 04:26 PM

229. Crazy as this sounds....

I think MS's color selection to market the tiles hurt their sales. I think the red/blue color scheme sucks visually and not very sophisticated...almost kindergardenish type colors. A better choice of colors in their ads might be smart...I'd have thought MS probably did this, but I'd retest this selection against a pallette of better choices.

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Response to Old and In the Way (Reply #229)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 07:55 PM

230. I'm with you 100% - they created the Angry Fruit Salad.

You look at any professional web designer, and they'll tell you that they'll put together a color scheme that's a bit more coordinated. Granted, there are infinite variations, but usually, it's one or two colors, that are either adjacent to each other, or compliments to each other. That's why you'll see color combinations like blue and orange a lot. Also, you'll see designers pick one really bright color, then tone the other colors down.

The Windows 8 Start Screen just throws every color of the rainbow at you all at once, usually at full saturation and intensity to gratuitously maximize the eyestrain. The Angry Fruit Salad - it's gaudy, it's ugly, it's distracting, it's obnoxious.

I'm betting that it's the marketing people at Microsoft that put them up to this - the whole point of the Metro user interface (where the Start Screen puts you instead of the old desktop) was to nudge people to the App Store, so they can BUY! BUY! BUY!!! So they turned the Start screen of every Windows 8 machine into a used car dealership.

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