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Mon Jan 28, 2013, 01:05 PM

 

Another way to save the Democratic Party: Join the Democratic Socialists!

Yes, the Democratic party does have a socialist faction. It isn't recognized by the party itself, but that's not necessary.

The Democratic Socialists of America is a Democratic party group, produces a magazine called "Democratic LEFT" and works within the party to push Socialist initiatives.


Many other socialist organizations (SPUSA, Socialist Alliance, etc) do not recognize the DSA as truly socialist, but then again, I doubt they recognize each other.

The DSA is part of the Socialist International, which binds many socialist parties worldwide (UK Labour Party, Socialist Party of France, etc.)

The DSA is for a social democracy, or democratic socialism - whatever you want to call it.

We're trying to build the left back in the Democratic Party!



http://dsausa.org/

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Reply Another way to save the Democratic Party: Join the Democratic Socialists! (Original post)
Taverner Jan 2013 OP
Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #1
Taverner Jan 2013 #2
Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #4
octoberlib Jan 2013 #6
Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #8
loudsue Jan 2013 #10
Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #13
patrice Jan 2013 #15
Dark n Stormy Knight Jan 2013 #21
Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #28
Dark n Stormy Knight Jan 2013 #30
Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #31
Fantastic Anarchist Jan 2013 #35
backscatter712 Jan 2013 #12
Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #18
cthulu2016 Jan 2013 #3
Dragonfli Jan 2013 #5
Taverner Jan 2013 #27
loudsue Jan 2013 #7
Lady Freedom Returns Jan 2013 #9
Jackpine Radical Jan 2013 #11
Taverner Jan 2013 #26
loudsue Jan 2013 #33
Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #14
DissidentVoice Jan 2013 #16
Taverner Jan 2013 #25
RevStPatrick Jan 2013 #17
Chathamization Jan 2013 #19
BrainMann1 Jan 2013 #20
Flying Squirrel Jan 2013 #22
Comrade Grumpy Jan 2013 #23
Taverner Jan 2013 #24
Taverner Jan 2013 #29
retread Jan 2013 #32
liberal_at_heart Jan 2013 #34
regjoe Jan 2013 #36
Taverner Jan 2013 #37
regjoe Jan 2013 #38
Taverner Jan 2013 #39

Response to Taverner (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 01:10 PM

1. It's ashame the left lost control of the narrative in this country...

During the first 40 years of the 20th century we were clearly heading that way.

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #1)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 01:10 PM

2. Let's take it back

 

As much as I'm not a big fan of vanguardism, I think it might work within our party...

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Response to Taverner (Reply #2)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 01:29 PM

4. As Lenin popularized political vanguardism,

you'll need to come up with a better term.

I'm reading the companion book to Oliver Stone's "Untold History..." Truly amazing...but I think the thing that jumped up and slapped me in the face was the figures for illiteracy in the US after WWI and the number of soldiers who tested as "morons". Granted IQ testing was in its very early days back then, but the results of numerous studies led the Madison Ave crowd to revamp the way they did advertising. No more facts, instead appeal to dreams and emotions. Republicans adopted that strategy well in advance of the Dems, who still haven't mastered it.

The first thing that needs to be done is convincing Dems they are not the Smart party...they have been out-foxed and out maneuvered
by the GOP for decades.

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #4)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 03:01 PM

6. +1

I've always thought that the Dems should hire a couple of ad copywriters to name bills for them and help with their messaging.

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Response to octoberlib (Reply #6)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 03:04 PM

8. Absolutely agree with you.

I think the failure to do so is called Hubris...

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #4)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 03:06 PM

10. I blame a lot of this problem on the Unions themselves.

They are losing a huge opportunity to spread their wings, get LOTS of money from the average working stiff, and take hold of the workers being ready to unite.

The unions need to reach out and start educating everyone, and yes, even about democratic socialism. They've got the money to advertise to get yet even MORE money. Everyone who cares about jobs of any kind should be able to join a union, whether they are employed or not. Whether they have apprenticed or not.

The unions need to take hold and change the dialog. I'm afraid the leadership have been too corporatized/mafia-ized to have the courage of their founders. They need to spread their wings, and take off.

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Response to loudsue (Reply #10)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 03:21 PM

13. Unions can't spread their wings

until we have full employment. Thy have too many laws working against them. People are afraid to strike for fear the jobs will be outsourced. The very real, very intended secondary consequence of "globalization" was to break the power of unions worldwide.

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #13)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 03:32 PM

15. Right! This also causes them to get triangulated with from BOTH directions, so they replicate splits

, Left and Right, in their own ranks that were seeded during the Nixon administration, though the relevant elements date from economic/political developments during the latter-two-thirds of the 19th century.

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #13)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 03:50 PM

21. Which is one reason the Right doesn't want full employment.

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Response to Dark n Stormy Knight (Reply #21)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:06 PM

28. If only we had something with a megaphone to get that message to the people n/t

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #28)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:16 PM

30. Don't worry, surely the "liberal media" will do it.

Insert sarcasm thingie here.

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Response to Dark n Stormy Knight (Reply #30)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:17 PM

31. I know...it's another tragdy of life in the US n/t

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Response to loudsue (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:15 PM

35. The Unions are collaborators.

Everyone should join the One Big Union, the IWW.

http://www.iww.org

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #4)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 03:20 PM

12. Moving the Overton Window.

I think that's part of mainstream American political tactics.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #12)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 03:34 PM

18. Well certainly modern politics...

say second half of the 20th century forward. There was nothing narrow about the political movements of the previous 150 years.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 01:11 PM

3. Good. Michael Harrington would be pleased

I think of myself as a CLDS - civil libertarian democratic socialist

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 02:47 PM

5. I have finally done it (mailed in the reg form on Friday)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=379317

I went with the Socialist Workers Party (SWP) when I switched from D because it was the one I knew about. I've been reading "The Militant" for a while now so I thought of them.

Do you think DSA is stronger? (either internationally or US)

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #5)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:05 PM

27. I don't know about stronger - but a clear voice inside the party

 

Subvert (or rather reconstruct) from within

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 03:02 PM

7. Thanks for the link. It's time the US joined the western european countries

in adopting something that will work. Clearly, unregulated capitalism DOES NOT WORK.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 03:04 PM

9. My brother is a member.

Last edited Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:09 PM - Edit history (1)

He finds that their views fits his views. We have had some fun, friendly debates.
My father has threatened to disown us both many a time. He is, as many know, a Conservative Republican.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 03:19 PM

11. Keith Ellison wrote recently about the grassroots of the party.

Ellison is right--the Democratic Party still has a large cadre of grassroots progressives, and they delivered the election for Obama.

Nevertheless, there is a massive split between the "retarded" progressives and the Party apparatchiks. Think Reid, for example. For that matter, in the 2008 campaign, the last 2 standing were Barack and Hillary, the two furthest-right of the field.

This was not an expression of the will of the rank-and-file, who would have preferred a much more liberal candidate, but of the election financiers and their tools, the "Lamestream Media" (OK, Sarah did have one good phrase in her). Obama was the furthest-left candidate that we would be allowed to have. Kucinich was marginalized out of the box, Edwards was an unprincipled Willard-style chameleon of the left (and of course contained the seeds of his own destruction).

There is still a split between the Pros and the activists. The former see the latter as useful idiots, as street-pounders and phone bankers who can be fed with a few table scraps and deceived with high-sounding talk.

Yes, there have been many progressive initiatives in the Obama years. But take note of one thing--Gay rights, reproductive rights, "feminization" of the military, and similar actions do not gore the oxen of Big Business (especially that big Wall Street bull). Even the ACA was carefully crafted with the advice and consent of the Health Insurance/Health Provider cabal so as not to damage anybody's bottom line. Important as these advances are, they come at little or no cost to the .01%'ers.

The bottom line for the political pro's and for the .01%'ers is the same bottom line. The pros can keep the Citizens United money rolling in, and keep open their opportunities for plush lobbying jobs and corporate board seats, as long as they don't do anything foolish to crimp that bottom line.

Ellison is absolutely right that the Democratic Party has a highly functional grassroots structure of talented, educated, idealistic people. If they want to keep that structure, it is time for the Party to start thinking outside the Citizens United box, because as long as politicians remain beholden to the moneyed interests, true economic reform is impossible.

Viewed in this light, not even the current wave of media consolidation is very important. It only determines how many checks the Oligarchs have to write in order to buy the airwaves. Print is already dead as a vehicle of mass messaging, so cross-medium market saturation is not particularly important either. Fewer pople every year are getting their information from the traditional mass media. This has resulted in a sort of "cocooning" in which some percentage are tuned in to Fox/Limbaugh/Liddy/Savage, and others into various other niche sources.

We MUST find a way to "de-cocoon" the information field so as inform and inflame the public. Fortunately, we are seeing the rapid evolution of a new kind of media. Where, in the past, whether it be the newspapers, the WWII-era movie newsreels (anybody else remember them?), a megaphone, or the Boob Toob, the paradigm was always one voice being transmitted to the many recipients of the message. Our new electronic media are blowing that model apart. One-to-many has become many-to-many. In this emerging model lies our ultimate hope for undoing the influence of Citizens United and breaking the Koch habit.

I don't know exactly how to go about doing all this, the new paradigm is not about to leap fully formed from my brow, but when I look to the streets of Cairo, Madison and New York, I see something emerging that will be beyond the control of the Oligarchs, who have always been able to divide and rule in the past. Sure we lost in Wisconsin, at least in the sort run, but the fact that the insurrection happened at all or came as near to success as it did, is a new phenomenon in the world.

It is in this environment that a new wave of true progressivism can at last flourish. The genie is not going back into the bottle.

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Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #11)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:02 PM

26. IT bears repeating: Obama is the best President we can get right now

 

Agreed

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Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #11)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:58 AM

33. I wish I could recommend your post.

I hope all you say is true, and that progressivism is set to flourish. I'm afraid the .1% are not going to go gently into that good night.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 03:22 PM

14. Forgot to say "thanks"...

I never knew about DSA...just signed up!

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 03:33 PM

16. It's a shame

I have taken a hard look at the DSAUSA myself, as well as the Greens (Dr Jill Stein).

It's a pity we cannot bring the socialist ideals of these organisations back into the Democratic Party. I have long bemoaned the influence of the DLC on the Democratic Party. It MAY have made people like Bill Clinton more "electable"...but to me it did so by making the Democratic Party too "Republican-lite."

I think that the Democratic Party felt so cowed by 12 years of Reagan/Bush Snr. that they felt they had to adopt kind of a "me-too" strategy to a certain extent.

I voted for Bill Clinton in both '92 and '96, but my biggest disappointment with him was in '94 when he just rolled over and let the Republicans kick him on health care, and then jumped on "the era of 'big government' is over" train.

I was also disappointed that Mr. Obama (whom I voted for in both '08 and '12) has not pushed for single-payer health care. I think he is well-intentioned, and what we DID get from him is worlds ahead of anything the Republicans would have enacted (read: status quo, along with their bullshit about "tort reform," "buying across state lines," etc.), so I am grateful for that. I think he tried to get the GOP on board by taking the centrist approach, but surely he must have known that ANYTHING he would do with health care would be met with an automatic "NO!" by the Republicans, so why not go for it all?

We have never had a real workers' party in this country like UK OLD Labour, Canadian NDP, Australian Labour Party, etc., not at least since the days of LBJ.

So many times Republicans try to insult me by calling me a "socialist." I just say, "you say that like it's a bad thing!"

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Response to DissidentVoice (Reply #16)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:00 PM

25. "you say that like it's a bad thing!"

 

Me too

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 03:34 PM

17. There's also the Working Families Party...

 

...in some states, anyway.

Here in New York, a candidate can be on the ballot on more than one party's ticket.
I'm registered as an Independent, and have voted for candidates on the WFP as often as I can.
I voted for Obama/Biden twice on the WFP ticket.
I was able to vote for the winners, and support a small but growing third party, that I feel is much more Liberal than the Democratic party, and isn't beholden to big money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_Families_Party
http://www.workingfamiliesparty.org/

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 03:35 PM

19. I've gone to some DC DSA meetings

and it seems like a pretty good group, one that's fairly active politically. I do more work now with my local DFA branch, but in the end it seems like the two do similar work.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 03:50 PM

20. If you belief this is from the left

I have a bridge to sell you real cheap

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Response to BrainMann1 (Reply #20)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 03:53 PM

22. You're not very subtle are you?

Enjoy your stay.

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Response to BrainMann1 (Reply #20)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 03:54 PM

23. What do you mean?

Are you saying DSA isn't on the left?

Well, they're not radical Marxists, but they are socialists.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #23)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 03:58 PM

24. Yep - Socialism is a pretty big tent

 

All the way from worker owned businesses to state communism to anarcho syndicalist collectives

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Response to BrainMann1 (Reply #20)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:08 PM

29. In Europe, no this would be centrist (being they are mostly social democracies)

 

But here in the United States, it would be far left

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Response to BrainMann1 (Reply #20)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:18 PM

32. I belief I'll take you up on that bridge!

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:01 AM

34. I like this idea

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:27 PM

36. How do you get Democrats to accept "Socialist initiatives"

 

to the same degree you socialists do?

Fascinating subject, BTW.

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Response to regjoe (Reply #36)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:30 PM

37. The same way they got us to accept "work to welfare"

 

and all those other horrible Clinton backstabs

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Response to Taverner (Reply #37)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:40 PM

38. Force it on us despite our objections?

 

I don't think that would be very effective for your cause.

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Response to regjoe (Reply #38)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:43 PM

39. No - but do it with proper re-branding

 

Don't call it socialism, call it communitarian

Don't call it wealth redistribution, call it empowerment

Don't call it nationalization, call it oversight

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