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Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:20 AM

Gun talk - by Tom Tomorrow



http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/01/28/1181981/-Gun-talk

43 replies, 5716 views

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Arrow 43 replies Author Time Post
Reply Gun talk - by Tom Tomorrow (Original post)
kpete Jan 2013 OP
HughBeaumont Jan 2013 #1
Cirque du So-What Jan 2013 #2
onehandle Jan 2013 #3
MynameisBlarney Jan 2013 #5
Plucketeer Jan 2013 #9
MynameisBlarney Jan 2013 #10
joeybee12 Jan 2013 #11
MynameisBlarney Jan 2013 #12
devilgrrl Jan 2013 #13
MynameisBlarney Jan 2013 #14
AAO Jan 2013 #27
Recursion Jan 2013 #31
Plucketeer Jan 2013 #42
tclambert Jan 2013 #39
AlbertCat Jan 2013 #17
AAO Jan 2013 #28
brush Jan 2013 #32
Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #4
onehandle Jan 2013 #16
Demo_Chris Jan 2013 #6
patrice Jan 2013 #7
LineReply .
myrna minx Jan 2013 #8
FunkyLeprechaun Jan 2013 #15
haele Jan 2013 #19
hack89 Jan 2013 #30
FunkyLeprechaun Jan 2013 #34
hack89 Jan 2013 #37
WillyT Jan 2013 #18
nadinbrzezinski Jan 2013 #20
DaveJ Jan 2013 #21
SylviaD Jan 2013 #22
WHEN CRABS ROAR Jan 2013 #23
DeSwiss Jan 2013 #24
rapturedbyrobots Jan 2013 #25
tavalon Jan 2013 #26
gun-tard Jan 2013 #29
Erose999 Jan 2013 #33
brush Jan 2013 #35
legaleagle_45 Jan 2013 #41
Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2013 #36
tavalon Jan 2013 #40
Baitball Blogger Jan 2013 #43
Saviolo Jan 2013 #38

Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:23 AM

1. Maybe I should post this to my FB account and see who bites.

K & R.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:28 AM

2. I can find 75% of that commentary in any random gun-themed GD thread

and the remainder in the gungeon. Art imitates internet 'advocacy'

Well done, Mr. Tomorrow!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:54 AM

3. The last frame is absolutely accurate.

They have no idea why the vast majority of people consider open carry the abnormal act of a Sociopath.

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Response to onehandle (Reply #3)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:03 AM

5. I don't think ALL people that open carry a sidearm

are necessarily sociopaths.
But the ones that feel it's no big deal to walk around in public with an AR-15 or similar weapon.
I hope the authorities are keeping an eye on them.

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Response to MynameisBlarney (Reply #5)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 12:10 PM

9. I'm OK with open carry too

So long as they're wearing a uniform or a badge. Other'n that, what does it say about the carrier???

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Response to Plucketeer (Reply #9)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 01:08 PM

10. Dunno

but I think painting all people that open carry as sociopaths is a bit much.

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Response to MynameisBlarney (Reply #10)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 01:11 PM

11. Well, there's something seriously wrong with someone who thinks open carry

simply means freedom, when in fact it means intimidation.

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Response to joeybee12 (Reply #11)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 01:39 PM

12. Oh, there is definitely something not right

about a lot of the people that are over the top frothy about their right to own guns.
I think, for the most part, they're just uninformed idiots that let themselves get whipped up into a frenzy by those that are most likely the sociopaths.

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Response to MynameisBlarney (Reply #12)


Response to devilgrrl (Reply #13)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 01:46 PM

14. Yup

Pretty much.

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Response to MynameisBlarney (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 09:08 AM

27. No, he excepted police and military personnel

 

But private citizens that walk around with their shiny toys have some issues, for sure.

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Response to Plucketeer (Reply #9)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 09:41 AM

31. There's a lot of context there, though

When I'm at my grandfather's farm in Brock, TX, I wouldn't think twice if I saw somebody carrying a gun around. When I'm at home in DC, I definitely do.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #31)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:04 AM

42. So......

Texas is a safer place than DC? When WAS the last shoot-em-up in DC? And what is the population of Brock Tx?

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Response to Plucketeer (Reply #9)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:35 AM

39. I'm OK with open carry, but just for white people.

Anybody with dark beige instead of light beige skin carrying a gun--well, that's just trouble. White people need the guns to protect their stuff from the darker, poorer people. And white people never go on those shooting rampages that make the news.

Oops, just looked up the stats, and it turns out the shooting rampages are something like 98% by white men. Ha, ha, my bad. So, um, never mind.

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Response to MynameisBlarney (Reply #5)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 06:45 PM

17. I don't think ALL people that open carry a sidearm.....

I'm more for open carry than conceal carry. With open carry, you at least know who's got a dangerous weapon.

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Response to AlbertCat (Reply #17)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 09:10 AM

28. And you quickly identify the nuts

 

and others that you want to stay far away from.

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Response to AAO (Reply #28)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 09:43 AM

32. Exactamundo

It's still discomforting though to see. I was in Arizona recently at an IHOP and three guys walked in with pistols on their hip. We were in the area around the cash register as there was a wait to be seated. I could see everyone visibly tighten up when the gun carriers came in. In a situation like that you have to hope that the carriers do not have stability issues and that nothing sets them off.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:57 AM

4. "Glib sociopath".

Nailed it.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #4)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 06:07 PM

16. Yep. nt

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 12:03 PM

6. That was laugh out loud funny

 

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 12:06 PM

7. NAILED it! with every last little nuance of the NRA persona, right on! nt

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 12:06 PM

8. .

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 02:30 PM

15. I don't post as much in the gungeon as I used to

But I often get sick of the people who say, "My gun didn't hurt anyone today. They shouldn't be scared of it." When I see someone with a gun out in public (even if it's cops) I get nervous (and I was the same way when I saw the UK military patrolling the London Underground with semi-automatic rifles prior to the 2012 games and that's a very very rare sight in London as not even the regular police carry firearms). I realized at a young age that guns aren't to be messed with and I never grew up in a household with guns and I've shot a real gun once before (an over/under shotgun) for skeet shooting and a sort-of-real gun (a BB gun) for target practice only once.

Does anyone seriously think that they'd be calm and collected when they see someone, a civilian, with a gun slung over their shoulder?

When I see pictures of ordinary people openly carrying their guns, my first thought is, I'd get the hell out of there.

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Response to FunkyLeprechaun (Reply #15)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 06:47 PM

19. When people who are not involved in policing, guard, or hunting activity open-carry in public -

I have to wonder who the heck they are trying to impress or intimidate.

The job of police or couriers/bodyguards puts them at significantly greater risk of encountering an armed person (or even unarmed group) than the average person, so carrying a weapon makes sense. A person who is out hunting or sport-shooting is participating in an activity in which a weapon is a requirement, so again, carrying a weapon makes sense.
Likewise, having a weapon in the house if you live in a high-crime area also makes some sense if there are a lot of home invasion type of break-ins. Even then, the weapon should be stored under a secure control system, because (especially if there are a lot of burglaries when people aren't at home), your weapon can be stolen or taken from you or used against you in the surprise of a break-in.

So when the average person claims to be carrying in "self defense" out in the public sphere, I wonder where they are going or what they are doing that would put them in a situation where they think they are going to be a target of criminals. Or if they're that afraid - that they think the risk that the .00005% of the population who might have criminal intent would be around them at any particular time means that they must be prepared for that pretty minuscule chance that someone would step up and threaten them or their loved ones on a random encounter.

I've always believed that you only carry a firearm - or any weapon - if you intend to use it. So, I tend to get nervous when I see people who are acting out with their weapons as if they were on a crime drama set for a TV show on the CW or TNT. When people act like that and I don't see where they might have reason to do so, I get the feeling that they're either very insecure or borderline personalities who are just waiting for someone to cross them.

And frankly, that uncertainty is why I go out of my way to stay the F*** away from someone who is open carry without an obvious reason to do so as soon as I see one on a civilian in public. And even in California, there are way too many people who are "displaying" as if they are making some sort of statement.
Newsflash, buddy - that gun is definitely not protecting my life or liberty. In fact, it may be putting me at greater risk if you pull some boneheaded move. (Honestly, that goes for the police, too - but that's a different issue; FWIW, I try to keep an eye out for the roid-nuts and other head cases in uniform and adapt my activities accordingly.)

Nothing personal against firearm owners. I, myself, am experienced in the use of firearms of all sorts, even though I don't own one (nor do I ever intend to, unless my job or situation requires one). I just have a great appreciation for the damage that can be done by a firearm that is not approached with the proper responsibility, skill or respect.

Just my opinion, and as usual, YMMV.

Haele

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Response to FunkyLeprechaun (Reply #15)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 09:39 AM

30. Concealed carry is always the better option

why go through life leaving upset people in your wake?

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Response to hack89 (Reply #30)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 09:59 AM

34. Do you think you're really truly prepared

When a shooting situation arises?

It's practically impossible to say that you're always prepared to defend yourself if a crazed gunman comes in.

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Response to FunkyLeprechaun (Reply #34)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:11 AM

37. I very seldom carry - I live in a safe town

as to whether or not I would be truly prepared - who knows. I am a combat vet so I doubt I would panic. But given the choice between dieing fighting or passively, I know what I would prefer. The world does not hand out 100% guarantees about anything but there is no reason to give up just because the odds are against you.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 06:47 PM

18. NAILED IT !!! - K & R !!!


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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 06:49 PM

20. Nailed it!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 07:01 PM

21. Love the reference to Scar Face (I'm Sorry, Little Friend)

It seems to be making the point that movies reflect the demented elements of society, not society imitating movies.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 07:02 PM

22. Repeal the 2nd amendment. End of problem. No, I'm not being glib. nt

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 07:37 PM

23. Why have we let it get so out of hand?

We watched gangs arm themselves in our cities and did nothing meaningful to stop them, why?
We watched gun accidents rise across our country and did nothing meaningful to reverse them, why?
We watched the rise of violent games and movie content and did nothing, why?
We were told that being strong and having the largest military in the world would make us free, why did we believe those lies?
Are you ready to change that now?

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 08:38 PM

24. K&R

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:12 AM

25. He definitely nails the "glib sociopath" attitude

but also repeats the inaccurate assumptions people with no firearms experience have about 'military grade' weaponry. most deer hunters own weapons MUCH more powerful and accurate than an ar-15. and the best rifles the military has are arguably bolt action sniper rifles, not the 'scary looking' carbines. one navy seal (Chris Kyle) has 225 confirmed kills using mostly a .300 win mag bolt action sniper rifle. and the deadliest single soldier in history got over 505 confirmed kills in under 100 days...also using a bolt action rifle. believe it or not...there are lots of reasonable people who know a lot about firearms and are not glib sociopaths dead set against gun control laws. people should listen to them sometime to try and figure out what laws will protect the most people.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 08:10 AM

26. Me and Tom think alike

Why are military grade weapons even being discussed, much less, available to the public?

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Response to tavalon (Reply #26)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 09:26 AM

29. Maybe because of the 2nd Amendment?

 

The idea was (and is) to have civilians armed with the same type of small arms as a professional soldier working for government, so the civilians could bear those arms, either for the defense of the country from a foreign invader, or against a tyrannical government and its soldiers.

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Response to gun-tard (Reply #29)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 09:45 AM

33. Welcome to DU, gun-tard. Enjoy your stay.


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Response to gun-tard (Reply #29)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:00 AM

35. There's some new info coming out about the 2nd Amendment

This is a quote from "The Root."

"The Second Amendment was not enacted to provide a check on government tyranny; rather, it was written to assure the Southern states that Congress would not undermine the slave system by using its newly acquired constitutional authority over the militia to disarm the state militia and thereby destroy the South's principal instrument of slave control."

Militias in the Southern states were slave patrols, plain and simple. Seems it wasn't about any tyrannical government.

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Response to brush (Reply #35)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:02 AM

41. Old information

The theory that the 2nd Amend was about protecting slavery is not new. It is based upon a law review article written by Carl T. Bogus in 1998 and entitled THE HIDDEN HISTORY OF THE SECOND AMENDMENT. It is now being resurrected by various persons, notably Thom Hatmann, but the thesis has long been rejected by main stream legal scholars of the 2nd Amend... primarily because Bogus ignores the fact that the right to arms was first proposed by Pennsylvania and new Hampshire and not Virginia. He also uses clipped quotes out of context to arrive at his conclusion. Many scholars believe that Bogus' law review article was less than an honest historical review and more of a political hit piece because of the affiliation that Bogus has with gun control groups. The CV of of Carl T. Bogus:

VIOLENCE POLICY CENTER, Washington, DC, National Advisory Panel, 1993-Present.

HANDGUN CONTROL, INC., Washington, DC, Board of Gov., 1992-93, Board of Directors, 1987-89.

THE CENTER TO PREVENT HANDGUN VIOLENCE, Washington, DC, Board of Directors, 1989-92.

Militias in southern states were not slave patrols, plain and simple. Militias were a much larger entity, consisting of all able bodied white men between 17-45 (usually). Slave patrols consisted of 4 to 6 men in each county who were charged with the duty of keeping tabs on slaves. In two states (Virginia and South Carolina), slave patrol members were drawn from militia rolls.. (much like members of a jury are drawn from voter registration rolls). In other southern states membership in slave patrols were drawn from tax rolls.

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Response to gun-tard (Reply #29)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:02 AM

36. Finally, a screen name with 100% honesty. nt

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Response to gun-tard (Reply #29)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:59 AM

40. Wow, dude, your username is so spot on

MIRT will be along shortly so I feel no need to argue with you, gun-tard.

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Response to gun-tard (Reply #29)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:56 AM

43. The operative words are: "with the same type of small arms"

So we can agree that gun regulation of assault rifles would not violate the Second Amendment.

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Response to tavalon (Reply #26)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:16 AM

38. Not really military grade...

The AR-15s aren't really in the same class as real military weapons, which makes the NRA argument all the more disingenuous. If the idea is that the people should be allowed to carry the same type of weapon as soldiers carry, then crying about their AR-15s is ridiculous.

An extended mag and the military-look styling on those weapons will not help against actual military weapons.

But then, that's the fantasy, isn't it? That some civilian with a firearm is going to stop a crazed shooter with unerring accuracy, or when the government suddenly displays its tyrannical agenda to round people up and take their guns, they'll be able to defend themselves. It's a fantasy. All these folks carrying their AR-15s into public spaces just to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights are just -asking- for one of those other fantasizers to mistake them for a shooter and kill them. I can't imagine another reason for carrying a military-styled firearm into a public place other than to intimidate people. Or shoot them.

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