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Sun Jan 27, 2013, 10:38 PM

 

"Public" charter school fines (unemployed) mom $3000 for her son's misbehavior

No excuses! The Noble Network of charter schools in Chicago is proud of its high test scores. Mayor Rahm Emanuel says Noble has some “secret sauce” that produces great success.

Could this be it? A Noble charter has fined the mother of a student $3,000 for his rule-breaking.

The mother is unemployed. She can’t pay.

She says she thought that public education was free.

Noble has its high standards. It collected $190,000 (in penalties from misbehaving students) in 2011. Pay or get out.

http://dianeravitch.net/

The mom can't get the kid's report card unless she pays up. Nor can she get any of the records which she needs to transfer the child to another school.

He can't go to school & he can't transfer until she pays up.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/27/marsha-godard-chicago-mother-fined_n_2562353.html

If kids get too many fines they have to take a special disciplinary class that COSTS $280.

The Noble schools are targeted toward low-income, high-needs students of color.

ANOTHER WAY THE POOR PAY MORE.

117 replies, 7594 views

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Reply "Public" charter school fines (unemployed) mom $3000 for her son's misbehavior (Original post)
HiPointDem Jan 2013 OP
BlueStreak Jan 2013 #1
msanthrope Jan 2013 #4
KamaAina Jan 2013 #55
Riley18 Jan 2013 #2
msanthrope Jan 2013 #5
msanthrope Jan 2013 #3
Starry Messenger Jan 2013 #11
msanthrope Jan 2013 #13
erodriguez Jan 2013 #18
UnrepentantLiberal Jan 2013 #22
msanthrope Jan 2013 #41
dsc Jan 2013 #64
msanthrope Jan 2013 #74
Recursion Jan 2013 #83
grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #89
msanthrope Jan 2013 #91
grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #99
msanthrope Jan 2013 #100
demwing Jan 2013 #101
msanthrope Jan 2013 #102
demwing Jan 2013 #103
msanthrope Jan 2013 #104
demwing Jan 2013 #107
msanthrope Jan 2013 #108
demwing Jan 2013 #109
msanthrope Jan 2013 #110
Pisces Jan 2013 #105
msanthrope Jan 2013 #106
Angry Dragon Jan 2013 #6
Left Coast2020 Jan 2013 #10
bvar22 Jan 2013 #69
Downwinder Jan 2013 #7
DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav Jan 2013 #8
busterbrown Jan 2013 #9
mbperrin Jan 2013 #15
dlwickham Jan 2013 #16
HiPointDem Jan 2013 #26
Ilsa Jan 2013 #31
HiPointDem Jan 2013 #32
Ilsa Jan 2013 #33
HiPointDem Jan 2013 #34
Ilsa Jan 2013 #35
HiPointDem Jan 2013 #36
Ilsa Jan 2013 #40
HiPointDem Jan 2013 #62
nikto Feb 2013 #116
duffyduff Jan 2013 #46
dlwickham Jan 2013 #43
duffyduff Jan 2013 #47
msanthrope Jan 2013 #51
MattBaggins Jan 2013 #76
msanthrope Jan 2013 #79
MattBaggins Jan 2013 #80
hughee99 Jan 2013 #52
nikto Feb 2013 #112
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #114
nikto Feb 2013 #115
nikto Feb 2013 #117
tblue37 Jan 2013 #23
JVS Jan 2013 #24
mbperrin Jan 2013 #14
onpatrol98 Jan 2013 #19
busterbrown Jan 2013 #21
onpatrol98 Jan 2013 #93
kiva Jan 2013 #111
duffyduff Jan 2013 #45
mbperrin Jan 2013 #81
nikto Jan 2013 #27
nikto Jan 2013 #28
DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav Jan 2013 #53
MattBaggins Jan 2013 #78
Orrex Jan 2013 #42
duffyduff Jan 2013 #44
MattBaggins Jan 2013 #75
DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav Jan 2013 #98
grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #90
Marrah_G Jan 2013 #12
msanthrope Jan 2013 #49
MichiganVote Jan 2013 #58
msanthrope Jan 2013 #72
MichiganVote Jan 2013 #84
msanthrope Jan 2013 #87
knitter4democracy Jan 2013 #60
msanthrope Jan 2013 #70
knitter4democracy Jan 2013 #86
hay rick Jan 2013 #17
Blue_Tires Jan 2013 #68
nikto Jan 2013 #20
knitter4democracy Jan 2013 #38
MichiganVote Jan 2013 #59
Blue_Tires Jan 2013 #67
JVS Jan 2013 #25
reverend_tim Jan 2013 #29
cali Jan 2013 #30
Romulus Quirinus Jan 2013 #73
xchrom Jan 2013 #37
RandiFan1290 Jan 2013 #39
proud2BlibKansan Jan 2013 #48
msanthrope Jan 2013 #50
MichiganVote Jan 2013 #54
msanthrope Jan 2013 #56
MichiganVote Jan 2013 #57
msanthrope Jan 2013 #77
MichiganVote Jan 2013 #82
msanthrope Jan 2013 #85
MichiganVote Jan 2013 #92
msanthrope Jan 2013 #94
MichiganVote Jan 2013 #95
msanthrope Jan 2013 #97
HiPointDem Jan 2013 #61
proud2BlibKansan Jan 2013 #63
HiPointDem Jan 2013 #65
proud2BlibKansan Jan 2013 #66
MichiganVote Jan 2013 #96
Romulus Quirinus Jan 2013 #71
Jefferson23 Jan 2013 #88
nikto Feb 2013 #113

Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 10:45 PM

1. And how do you think Charters get high scores?

By using a wide variety of methods to dump the students they don't want to deal with.

In Indiana, they don't have to bother with "fining" parents to drive out the undesirable students. They simply "counsel them out". And if they wait until October to counsel the students out, they still get paid for the students for the full school year, but the student doesn't count against their test results. Sweet. The public schools have to take those "undesirables" but get no money for them.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #1)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 10:54 PM

4. I truly hope this mother posts the paperwork documenting these fines. It's an outrage. nt

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #1)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 02:10 PM

55. Not just Indiana

that's SOP. And the "undesirable" students are often those with disabilities.

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 10:46 PM

2. Corporate for profit charter schools are

really just a way to end free public education. At my public school, we make sure every kid is treated well. An example is that when we plan a field trip every kid gets to go regardless of ability to pay. The idea that a child would be fined for behavior is beyond ridiculous.
Rahm know that it is not a "secret sauce" that creates the scores because for profit schools use all kinds of tricks ( more like a secret filter) to ensure their test scores.

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Response to Riley18 (Reply #2)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 10:55 PM

5. I think fines are terrible. I hope this mother posts the paperwork associated with these fines. nt

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 10:54 PM

3. Why is a Chicago Teacher's Union Ally sending her child to a charter school?

I am perplexed.

Marsha Godard is a staunch CTU ally and supporter....and BofA protestor:

http://www.ctunet.com/blog/stand-with-marsha-against-bank-greed

She's done interesting work on behalf of the community organization, Action Now--

http://actionnowdotorg.wordpress.com/2012/02/24/action-now-member-marsha-godard-receives-hardest-hit-funds/


I can't imagine why she would send her son to a charter school in the first place, but I do hope that if she has ANY paperwork documenting her son's fines, I hope she will post it.

Do you have any paperwork that documents this claim?

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #3)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 11:42 PM

11. She has buyer's remorse over her former charter school enthusiasm.

The school were marketed heavily, but many parents are finding they were sold a bill of goods.




<snip>

Godard said, in her perspective, the only difference between public schools and charter schools is that the charters are being funded more. According to the Chicago Public Schools’ 2013 budget, charter schools will see a 13% increase in funding this year. Noble Network, a Chicago network of charter schools that includes Chicago Bulls College Prep, is expected to receive $69.9 million. On the other hand, traditional public schools, according to WBEZ Chicago, are expected to lose millions in funding in 2013.

“The public schools aren’t failing, they just haven’t been given resources to succeed,” Godard said about the reallocation of funding. Her fear is that public schools will cease to exist under Chicago’s new push for charter schools, and she says she regrets buying into Mayor Rahm Emanuel’s “secret sauce” formula that created the push for charter schools in Chicago.

But the difference, some argue, is not just about education; it’s about real-world discipline. Rhonda Coleman, whose daughter is a student at Noble Network’s Gary Comer College Prep, said parents were informed before sending their children to Noble schools about the code of conduct and behavioral expectations. “We came on board knowing what to expect,” Coleman said, adding there was nothing hidden during the open house she attended before sending her daughter to Gary Comer, and she signed a contract acknowledging the school’s expectations. “I think when reality hits, then parents realize, ‘Oh my God, I have to pay.’”

<snip>

Godard still isn’t convinced. “All I heard about were behavior problems, but the teachers in the public school go above and beyond to work with students and parents on comprehension and learning,” Godard said of her nine-year-old daughter, who now attends a Chicago public school. She is still looking for another school for her son.



http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/01/16/as-funding-debate-continues-parents-still-divided-on-charter-schools/

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #11)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 11:51 PM

13. She claimed 3k--now she's claiming it's only 2k? I really wish she would post some proof---

Marsha Godard paid nearly $2,000 in fees to Chicago Bulls College Prep for her 16-year-old son’s disciplinary offenses that included not sitting up straight, and violating the school’s uniform dress code. Godard, whose story we’ve highlighted before, said this week that the rise of charter schools is robbing public schools of necessary funding to help its students learn.


According to other media reports, her minor son (whose name she posted, but I will not post) was suspended 15 times.

I would love to read the proof she has of these allegations.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #3)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 12:44 AM

18. Always defending the same assholes. Blaming the victims.

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Response to erodriguez (Reply #18)


Response to erodriguez (Reply #18)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:29 AM

41. I am not blaming anyone--I simply want proof of hundreds of detentions logged by this

one student.

I mean, it looks like--at $5 a fine--this kid has a minimum of 750 detentions. I would think there might be some paperwork documenting that, no?

Further, I can understand why a child might want to go to the Chicago Bulls charter, but I cannot understand why a parent wouldn't intervene before hundreds and hundreds of infractions are logged against him.

I don't find her story credible.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #41)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 06:24 PM

64. well they got 190,000 in fines

which means they issued 3,800,000 detentions or maybe they are fining at more than 5 dollars.

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Response to dsc (Reply #64)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 07:47 PM

74. I wonder how much is late pickup fines? I found Amandla Charter fining for late pickup

at the rate of .50 per minute. You really can rack it up if you aren't careful. Interestingly enough, there seemed to be no monetary fine for student behavior--(p. 7)

http://www.amandlacharterschool.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Student-Family-Handbook-2011-12_final.pdf

Noble Charters might also be charging for late pickup, PLUS student behavior. I don't agree with fining for student behavior, unless it is a case of vandalism, i.e. the student broke something and should have to pay for it. I could not find their handbook online.

Charters are not for everyone--I can definitely see how many families would not do well in a restrictive environment that a charter requires. I was reading that the start time at Amandla was 7:10....no way I would ever get my kid there on time.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #3)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:09 PM

83. Chicago is unusual; the union was involved in the charter process and runs some charters

Not sure how that plays in here, but I know the dynamic is different than in most places.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #3)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:56 PM

89. Oh you're so clever... Ad Hominem attack FAIL

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #89)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:02 PM

91. How is being called an ally of a union an attack? nt

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #91)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:56 AM

99. B/C your attacking the person, instead of their argument.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #99)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:26 PM

100. They have no argument--only an unproven claim that doesn't seem credible.

Just because she asserts she has been fined it does not mean she has been. One would think that with 3k in fines, a woman who is a CTU ally would have a bit of paperwork. Or, she might remove her son from the school.

If the argument is that Noble charges fines when they should not, a good starting point would be the paperwork detailing the specifics.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #100)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:38 PM

101. The OP explicitly states that she cannot transfer the child.

The school wont release records required for the transfer till she pays the fines.

Fucking travesty, why are you carrying this water?

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Response to demwing (Reply #101)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:47 PM

102. You are incorrect. Here is the Illinois code sections that allow transfer without records--

AND mandate that the charter school MUST provide the transferee school the records. While the charter may deny the mother a physical report card, they CANNOT deny the next school. Further, his IEP placements and recommendations cannot be changed and must be honored--

(105 ILCS 10/8.1) (from Ch. 122, par. 50-8.1)
Sec. 8.1. (a) No school may refuse to admit or enroll a student because of that student's failure to present his student permanent or temporary record from a school previously attended.


(b) When a new student applies for admission to a school and does not present his school student record, such school may notify the school or school district last attended by such student, requesting that the student's school student record be copied and sent to it; such request shall be honored within 10 days after it is received. Within 10 days after receiving a request from the Department of Children and Family Services, the school district last attended by the student shall send the student's school student record to the receiving school district.

(c) In the case of a transfer between school districts of a student who is eligible for special education and related services, when the parent or guardian of the student presents a copy of the student's then current individualized education program (IEP) to the new school, the student shall be placed in a special education program in accordance with that described in the student's IEP.

(d) Until June 30, 2015, out-of-state transfer students, including children of military personnel that transfer into this State, may use unofficial transcripts for admission to a school until official transcripts are obtained from his or her last school district.
(Source: P.A. 96-953, eff. 6-28-10; 97-216, eff. 1-1-12.)


The mother's excuses don't stand up to the code.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #102)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:57 PM

103. No, I was not incorrect

I directed you back to an explicit statement in the OP that answered your challenge. If the OP was wrong, so be it. Not my error.

Still, why are you so intent on this challenging behavior? What's your angle?

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Response to demwing (Reply #103)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:29 PM

104. So you weren't incorrect, just merely quoting an incorrect statement? nt

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #104)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:52 PM

107. OK then, I take it back.

The OP was wrong on this point. I erred in referring back to the comment.

Now will you explain why you are so set on disproving the OP?

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Response to demwing (Reply #107)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:11 PM

108. Easily disproved stuff only helps Noble. How do you make the case to parents and legislators

that charters are a bad thing using hyperbole and Internet rumor that doesn't pan out? The only people who find you credible are people already disposed to be anti-charter.

If posters want to use Rahm Emanuel as a surrogate to attack this administration unfairly, then they shouldn't be surprised when they are challenged.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #108)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 02:35 PM

109. Do you agree

with the principle of fining parents if their children don't have their shirt tucked, or eat flaming hot Cheetos, or don't look their instructor in the eyes? Do you think that these petty issues should keep a child from graduating, or give them the reputation as a disciplinary problem?

Further, do you think support of charter schools helps, or hurts teacher unions?

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Response to demwing (Reply #109)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 04:41 PM

110. I wrote downthread that I don't agree with fining for behavior, with the exception of vandalism--

I think if a student vandalizes something, they should pay to replace/clean up property. The only other fines I would agree with are the late-pick up fines as outlined in the charter handbook I posted downthread--the school is not a baby-sitting service.

As for your second paragraph, that's too broad a question. Can you be specific as to organizations?

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #3)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:35 PM

105. Could it be a better curriculum and environment?? Maybe the fines keep out the troublemakers

that make learning impossible. As much as I want to support the public schools, I think some parents in certain
areas feel like these charter schools are a life line. Most people can not afford private education and want the best for their kids.
If the teacher is focused on discipline rather than educating the majority lose out. I don't agree with all charter schools, but
there are some very good ones. I think this argument against charters which is a leading cause by a few on this board overlooks
the success stories and the positive side of this issue on purpose.

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Response to Pisces (Reply #105)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 01:42 PM

106. Well--It's the Chicago Bulls Charter Prep. Here's the handbook--they are strict.

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 11:14 PM

6. Noble belongs in Prison

scum corporation

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Response to Angry Dragon (Reply #6)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 11:40 PM

10. Exactly

If I knew this mom personally, I would tell her to find an attorney willing to do pro bono case against school. What a load of horseshit.

Seriously. Take their ass to court. Don't let em "F" with you.

The school is a bunch of corupt a-holes. F-em.

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Response to Angry Dragon (Reply #6)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 06:44 PM

69. Noble DOES belong in prison, along with...

...the scum enablers and promoters like Rahm Emanuel who are working very hard to bust the Teacher's Union,
dismantle the Public School System,
and funnel all that Public Money into the private pockets of his RICH Corporate Privatizing friends.

Things like the Charter School Scam don't happen in a vacuum.
Unfortunately, privatizing everything that can be privatized IS the agenda of the New Democrat Centrist Party.

Follow the money.



You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their rhetoric, promises, or excuses.
Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 11:25 PM

7. How many bad scores does it take to bust a school?

It seems like an organized student body could control a school.

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 11:29 PM

8. I'm kinda torn on this charter verses public school stuff. I don't think the parents should be

 

fined but maybe there should be separate schools. One for the achievers and one for the under achievers who are problematic students. Both would get equally funded. This would create a better learning environment for those who want to learn, more advanced placement type of education. It would also give both students and parents a goal to shoot for.

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #8)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 11:38 PM

9. Couldn’t be a more horrible idea....

So these gifted kids should be put in a bubble just like the 1% in our country. Kids that excel will do well
under any environment and I feel it is in their interest to experience what the real world is like. By the way
I am not saying they should all be in the same class.... but should be under the same roof...your suggestion is
exactly what republicans strive for...

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Response to busterbrown (Reply #9)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 11:54 PM

15. Yes, actually they should be in the same class.

They will all perform at higher levels.

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Response to busterbrown (Reply #9)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 12:21 AM

16. no they won't

don't know where your education degree is from but you should ask for a refund

kids will NOT excel under any environment; gifted kids in schools without any sort of program for them suffer in a "regular" classroom since the teacher generally has to teach to the middle; doesn't do enough for the gifted or slower kids because that's the way it is

as for establishing new schools or at least different schools for these kids, I say why not

I know that my high school had no facilities that would help gifted kids reach their potential and I'm willing to bet most schools don't either

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Response to dlwickham (Reply #16)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 02:02 AM

26. all kids are gifted.

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #26)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 05:50 AM

31. That's simply not true.

Some kids need different kinds of teaching and a different pace. Some need a subject slowed down, using different methods. They are not all "gifted".

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #31)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 05:52 AM

32. maybe you can't see it, but they are. that's no lollipop talk, but truth.

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #32)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 06:17 AM

33. You're not making any sense.

There are children in every public school who need special education and extra help.
I repeat: they are not all "gifted" in their learning abilities. Whether I see it is irrelevant. They are there. The question is why you think they are all the same.

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #33)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 06:24 AM

34. s "gifted" program gives "special education and extra help". it's you who's making no sense.

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #34)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 06:31 AM

35. I didn't say the gifted program gives

Special help. I said some kids require special help. As in special education. Some kids need abstractions to be simplified and explained. You said all children are gifted. I said, they are not all gifted. Not everyone can learn in a regular classroom. The fact that schools provide special education is proof of that.

And there are some children who need more mental stimulation than a regular classroom can provide. These children are gifted. They love the challenge and can handle more difficult work.

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #35)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 06:38 AM

36. you misunderstood me. both special ed programs and gifted programs give students special

 

education and special help.

so going on about how special ed students need special help, in contrast with 'gifted' students is silly, when you're in favor of special programs for gifted students.

gifted programs were basically invented as a sop to keep middle to upper middle class families in the public school system in a kind of apartheid fashion, where they'd attend the schools but not have to be in the same classes as the icky kids.

now they've taken it to even higher heights with selective enrollment schools which are targeted for the same demographic, but they get their own apartheid school all to themselves.

sorry, i don't believe the mythology of 'giftedness'.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #36)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 07:11 AM

40. I've met gifted children, and their

classrooms weren't just for children of the 1% or white. They had children who were from poor neighborhoods, with poor parents as much as from wealthier neighborhoods. But the kids had better social and communication skills, and picked up abstract concepts faster than the peers, for the most part. They actually needed a challenging program as much as kids with communications disorders (such as autism) needed theirs.

Maybe your state's Gifted Program was set up that way, but the last school district I worked in did not limit the program to the stereotypical white doctor's kids.

I believe that kids have different abilities. Calling them all "gifted" doesn't serve any of them, just as denying them the individualized education plan they need doesn't serve them.

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #40)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:48 PM

62. and i believe different.

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #34)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 01:35 AM

116. All kids are above average too

Way above.

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #33)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:14 AM

46. Hate to tell you, but GATE is a form of special education

"Special" only means "specialized" education. GATE classes require staff knowledgeable about what "gifted" students need.

ALL students have abilities. You'd be amazed.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #26)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:59 AM

43. really?

you live in Lake Wobegon?

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Response to dlwickham (Reply #43)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:16 AM

47. ALL students have abilities and talents

I utterly despise the snob appeal of somebody calling their students or children "gifted."

In the end, it doesn't mean much, because to succeed in our society requires far more than mere "giftedness." It's more luck and who you know.

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Response to duffyduff (Reply #47)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:50 AM

51. They don't hand out advanced degrees based on luck and who you know. nt

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #51)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 07:54 PM

76. Yes they do

George W Bush and 99% of Harvard and Yale.

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Response to MattBaggins (Reply #76)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 08:12 PM

79. You name one dolt, and you think he represents 99% of Harvard and

Yale?

Okay, then!

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #79)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 08:30 PM

80. Oh FFS.. 98%

Happy now?

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Response to duffyduff (Reply #47)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:54 AM

52. Is that why doctors hang pictures of the people they know on the walls instead of diplomas. n/t

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #26)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 12:57 AM

112. And all kids are good kids.

They are all good at heart, even if some behave irrationally and cruelly.

All Kidz are wonderful underneath.




All kids can be doctors or lawyers.

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Response to nikto (Reply #112)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 01:12 AM

114. stupid post.

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #114)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 01:32 AM

115. You just like holding kids back

You hate The Kids.
You spit on their potential.

You un-American scum.

How dare you.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #114)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 01:51 AM

117. Kids are resourceful...

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Response to busterbrown (Reply #9)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 01:27 AM

23. You should read my essay on this topic on my

Teacher, Teacher website: "We Don' Need No Stinkin' Gifted Programs!":
http://teacherblue.homestead.com/gifted.html

Gifted students do not do well when their needs are ignored!

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Response to busterbrown (Reply #9)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 01:34 AM

24. "kids that excel will do well under any environment"

That's not true. Their gifts need to be fostered and serving them up as bully fodder for a bunch of discipline cases and neglecting their intellectual needs in favor of dummies is wrong.

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #8)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 11:54 PM

14. No study in the world would support homogeneous student bodies.

Mixing 'em up pays dividends for ALL students - they all do better.

I teach inclusion classes with high level, special ed, deaf, at-risk, and all other categories of students. In years when I teach courses subject to state testing, my pass rate is 98% lifetime.

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Response to mbperrin (Reply #14)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 12:54 AM

19. I've heard mixed reviews from students...

I know some educators are big on inclusion classes. But, I seldom hear that from students on either side of the spectrum. Some of the complaints mirror what an above poster suggested. Some of the students who felt they were on the upper end of the achievement curve felt stiffed by their schools and that they were undereducated.

In the past, I'd always been an advocate. But, now I'm a bit more cautious. I imagine in better run schools, it pays dividends for all students. I had one kid tell me he thought he should have been able to sue his school for malpractice.

A wise DUer once said that age was a horrible way to group children for learning. I tend to agree. I wish we had the money for more individualized instruction.

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Response to onpatrol98 (Reply #19)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 01:22 AM

21. I don’t think students of that age really have the understanding of both sides of the argument....

I think that only happens as one acquires more life experience.

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Response to busterbrown (Reply #21)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:23 PM

93. Good point...

That's a good point. But, when they graduate from high school, attend college and sit in classrooms with kids around their state, the US, and the world, they are immediately aware of their deficits compared with their peers.

As a college adviser and professor, that hurts. When I get A+ high school students giving it all they can sitting next to another A+ student and they realize that what they were offered just did not compare to what their peer was offered. And, when you're sitting across a desk from one of these kids they're pretty candid and often bitter.

These aren't kids who goofed off. They did what their schools asked of them. Their schools just weren't offering much. And, you can see the trends. After awhile you know the patterns. You know where the less academically prepared kids will come from. It's not that they're not bright. They were just handed a substandard education compared to what their peers were offered at their high school.

Seriously, I had a kid ask me if he could sue his high school. Most seem to catch up, though. They have to put in the extra work. But, they still feel cheated. And, it causes a self esteem problem. I think they understand more than we give them credit for.

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Response to onpatrol98 (Reply #93)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 05:13 PM

111. Great points.

When I was a teaching assistant in the 1990s, another TA had a student burst into tears when she got a D on an first draft of a paper; the student said she had never gotten anything lower than an A on anything she had written in high school and was shocked that her writing skills were below average in a college context. And trust me, this college was not particularly demanding.

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Response to onpatrol98 (Reply #19)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:11 AM

45. Actually inclusion was pushed during the Reagan years not to benefit students but

to save money.

There is a lot of debate about whether inclusion is any good. Most sped kids have academic deficiencies, so they can be included in most regular classes with accommodations in reading and/or math. However, more severely impaired children do better in their own classes. Many have to have specially trained staff to work with them.

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Response to onpatrol98 (Reply #19)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:00 PM

81. Students are absolutely no judge of their education - they have no training and very little critical

thought until around age 25.

The way I explain it to mine is to ask who's had a root canal - many hands go up. Then I ask how many are ready to perform a root canal on someone else - after all, they were there and awake for the whole procedure -surely they must have learned enough to do it.

Nah.

Heterogeneous groupings allow all possible interactions, so are the closest thing to individualized instruction available under the current model. Of course, all students should have an IEP, but the USA has decided to buy several foreign wars and some cheap corporate tax rates instead.

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #8)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 02:09 AM

27. That is problem#1 in child education today. Always has been.

But not to worry.

The separation is happening----The functional (i.e. cooperative) kids are trained like lab animals to
memorize the standards for multiple-choice tests;The dysfunctional/disruptive kidz are herded back to lower-funded
public "warehouse-schools" where low performance is widespread, but separated from the charters, where they cannot jeopardize valuable profits of charter school investors.

Things are different, we have new priorities now.

Get used to it.

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #8)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 02:11 AM

28. That is problem#1 in child education today. Always has been.

That is problem#1 in child education today. Always has been.

But not to worry.

The separation is happening----The functional (i.e. cooperative) kids are trained like lab animals to
memorize the standards for multiple-choice tests;The dysfunctional/disruptive kidz are herded back to lower-funded
public "warehouse-schools" where low performance is widespread, but separated from the charters, where they cannot jeopardize valuable profits of charter school investors.

Things are different, we have new priorities now.

Get used to it.

But not to worry.

The separation is happening----The functional (i.e. cooperative) kids are trained like lab animals to
memorize the standards for multiple-choice tests;The dysfunctional/disruptive kidz are herded back to lower-funded
public "warehouse-schools" where low performance is widespread, but separated from the charters, where they cannot jeopardize valuable profits of charter school investors.

Things are different, we have new priorities now.

Get used to it.

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Response to nikto (Reply #28)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 12:17 PM

53. I specifically stated that each school should get the same funding so that we get each child gets

 

the same opportunity to learn, but the fact is some kids are capable of learning more and faster than others.

I'm very unhappy with the way our children are being taught to pass a test, rather than taught to "think." Bush's No Child Left Behind was a complete disaster that left all of our children behind. The whole system needs a revamp.

If each school has the same funding, each child would have the same opportunity to learn. The only difference would be the curriculum would be more advanced for the more advanced students. That's all I was suggesting.

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #53)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 08:08 PM

78. Same funding for each person who wants to open

who wants to open a school?

What minimum standards?
Lunch Programs for 100 schools
School Nurses
Councilors
Psychologists
Security
Sports
Music

Handle of of these programs when everyone wants a piece of the same pie.

Do you think all these charters schools won't start clogging our courts and costing more money when one school sues for more money because another school got funding they did not?

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #8)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:39 AM

42. Excellent! We could make some of them tend underground machinery

Before long it will be easy to tell the Eloi from the Morlocks. Problem solved!

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #8)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:09 AM

44. No, there shouldn't. Public schools are designed to bring communities together

and create an informed citizenry, balkanized education doesn't do that.

BTW, charters aren't public schools; they are private schools designed to get public money.

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #8)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 07:49 PM

75. So many people want what you suggest

White flight has been a goal for decades now.

God forbid MY kids go to school with those scummy kids from across the street.

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Response to MattBaggins (Reply #75)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:33 AM

98. Hi Matt. I wasn't suggesting the schools be used for white flight. We adopted a few of our kids,

 

We're a multiracial family. Two of our daughters are over achievers, two are not. Their color doesn't matter and shouldn't. I think schools like this of all colors would give students at both types of schools a goal to reach for. That's all.

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #8)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:57 PM

90. You know, the best school systems in the worle are public!

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 11:46 PM

12. Public schools have to take him.

Pretty sure she would have a case for a lawsuit if the city denied her child an education.

The private scam artists are trying to scare her into paying.

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #12)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:21 AM

49. Absolutely they do. What I simply cannot understand is how it took 750 detentions for her to do

something--the math is staggering:

"Four demerits equals one detention and one detention equals $5, six detentions equals $30 and a suspension," Godard explained.

She went on to tell HuffPost that the school has refused to give her her son's report card due to the unpaid fines -- which she said she cannot afford, even on a payment plan.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/27/marsha-godard-chicago-mother-fined_n_2562353.html

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #49)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:30 PM

58. So you focus on the parent,ok-what about the "professionals" in this school?

Nobody there has heard of a Behavior Support Plan?

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Response to MichiganVote (Reply #58)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 07:26 PM

72. Do Illinois charters have to give a Behavior Support Plan? I don't think they do. nt

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #72)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:10 PM

84. Charter schools that receive Federal funds must provide behavioral interventions.

Illinois has nothing to say in the matter-except-when the asshole Dept. of Ed. chief does nothing. Should the Mother press a civil rights lawsuit, Illinois law will not trump the fed's.

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Response to MichiganVote (Reply #84)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:46 PM

87. Who says they didn't? The point I have made from the beginning is that

we have nothing but the mother's say-so what occurred with this school--we don't know if she is telling the truth.

If she is telling the truth, I hope she nails the school to the wall.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #49)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:33 PM

60. A demerit can be not making eye contact with a teacher.

You can't tell me the teachers aren't told to add more demerits all the time to help with the bottom line.

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Response to knitter4democracy (Reply #60)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 07:20 PM

70. I have no doubt--but you have to accumulate 4 demerits before a single detention/fine of $5.

Which means there are thousands of demerits this kid has accumulated.....

I am a bit astounded at the number---I would love to see any paperwork on this matter.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #70)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:40 PM

86. At those numbers, I wonder how much paperwork exists.

I teach some squirrelly kids and have taught in alternative high schools. I cannot think of how a student could have incurred anywhere near that number of infractions at all.

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 12:26 AM

17. More on Noble's discipline practices.

Article from PURE: http://pureparents.org/?p=18527

From the article

Noble’s discipline system charges students $5 for minor behavior such as chewing gum, missing a button on their school uniform, or not making eye contact with their teacher, and up to $280 for required behavior classes. 90% of Noble students are low-income, yet if they can’t pay all fines, they are made to repeat the entire school year or prevented from graduating. No waivers are offered, giving many families no option but to leave the school. The groups pointed to a recent Illinois State Board of Education report showing that 473 students, or 13% of the previous year’s student body, transferred out of Noble over the summer of 2010.

“Noble is forcing low-income parents to choose between paying the rent and keeping their child in school,” said Donna Moore, parent of a student at a Noble school. “This is a hidden tax on Chicago’s Black and Latino families, and it’s wrong.”

The original research released by the groups today showed that Noble has collected $386,745 from detention fines and behavior classes over the past three years. As the charter network has expanded, its annual revenue from these fines has grown – last school year, Noble made $188,647 from its discipline code.
...
...
“Noble gets its test results from forcing poor families out of its schools,” said Jasmine Sarmiento, a student at Kelvyn Park High School. “Does Mayor Emanuel really want more families in debt and more youth in the street? That’s not a model that Chicago should be following.”

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Response to hay rick (Reply #17)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 06:42 PM

68. wow...what a money-grabbing scam.....

Somewhere in California or wherever Michelle Rhee is reading that link in bed and masturbating furiously....

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 01:11 AM

20. In a way, it is satisfying to read about Parents' buyers' remorse, when the school makes them suffer

Many of these parents naively supported charter takeovers and sat idley by as fine teachers and school personnel were chased
out in favor of younger cheaper, more submissive employees.

Teachers and educators have been suffering immeasurably for over a decade since this NCLB bullshit
got going, trying to achieve ridiculous test score goals, constantly browbeated and told they are inadequate
while they watched their Union and subject departments dis-empowered in favor of outside investors
and pro-privatization principals and management, often trained and indoctrinated by philosophical
neo-liberal corporatists like Eli Broad and Bill Gates.

Some of us in teaching tried to tell others on the outside, tried to sound the alarm.
But most people didn't believe, or hear, us.

Clearly, few outside the school gave a shit.

Now, as a retired teacher, it is my turn to watch as others scream "INJUSTICE!".
Too late, suckers.

Enjoy the fruits of your ignorance of what real education is, and has always been--Multi-faceted,
multi-leveled, focused on the conceptual more than the trivial, varied, at least a little bit individualized, when possible, and MESSY.

But it's past the point of no return--Corporate America will not give back what it has taken--You'll see.
And you can be certain, your kids will not be getting a real education
.

Kids are just memorizing terms for multiple-choice bubble tests.
They are not learning concepts, or truths, anymore.

Some of us saw this coming and screamed it out--To no avail.

Well America, your schools are on the way out, and there ain't nothin' you can do about it now except
make sure your kid makes your school look good, no matter what it costs you.


(P.S. You can bet that Washington's Elite kids are absolutely NOT trained to memorize
standards-based trivia & just get high test scores.
That is only necessary for The Great Unwashed----
They would never do to their kids what they think is essential for the kids of The Masses).


But you & your kids are not in The Elite.

So shut up and memorize.

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Response to nikto (Reply #20)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 06:44 AM

38. Amen.

The only charter I've seen that is a good school is an alternative high school managed by the local district. Those for-profit places are scary.

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Response to nikto (Reply #20)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:32 PM

59. +1

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Response to nikto (Reply #20)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 06:39 PM

67. +1

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 01:50 AM

25. Shit happens when you sign on a dotted line

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 02:57 AM

29. Not feeling all that sympathetic, should have known the rules up front, and made the choice.

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Response to reverend_tim (Reply #29)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 05:31 AM

30. of course you're not, dear wittle reverend

wingnut types always take the side of disgusting exploiters.

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Response to cali (Reply #30)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 07:28 PM

73. Psychopaths must have much less stressful lives than you or I.

I mean, all that time normies spend worrying about others can be used for better things, like playing video games and making money.

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 06:44 AM

37. du rec. nt

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 06:48 AM

39. Maybe they need $$ for an expensive ad campaign?

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:19 AM

48. It's against the law to withhold his report card.

I hope Mom has a good lawyer.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #48)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:44 AM

50. I just looked at the Illinois Code...I think they can withold his report card to her.

They cannot withold his report card to the school he transfers to, though.

Further, she can make an appointment and examine and have copied his entire school record, but he won't get an 'official copy.'

I disagree with the school's ability to do this, fyi.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #50)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 02:04 PM

54. Just can't beat that fine old 'Students First!!!' attitude

There are regulations related to the expulsion of students too but this so called school doesn't appear to have any regard for that.

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Response to MichiganVote (Reply #54)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 03:27 PM

56. I think it's pretty awful. I wish the mother would post specific

details regarding the infractions.
















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Response to msanthrope (Reply #56)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:28 PM

57. Whose infractions? The kid's or the schools.

You know what I wish? I wish that deadbeat Duncan would get off his fat ass and start actually enforcing the Dept. of Education's rules and regulations.

When the financial world disregarded the regulators and the regulators disregarded the financial world, the economy took a complete dive and we've spent billions of dollars cleaning up the damn mess.

What did you think will/would happen to something as seemingly unimportant as educations for the nation's children?

In Michigan, right now, there is a bill to completely do away with ALL of the reg's and testing-- for Charter schools only. Not only that, they can limit their students to the cream of the crop. Not only that, the bill endorses payments by parents for curriculum activities.

So much for FAPE, Free and Appropriate Public Education. That's the law and regardless of the "infractions" of the kid, this school has violated the student's civil rights.

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Response to MichiganVote (Reply #57)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 08:02 PM

77. Well, there you have the problem--this is Illinois State Law, and NCLB.

What is Arne Duncan supposed to do about charter laws enacted by legislators voted in by people of the states?

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #77)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:07 PM

82. NCLB has nothing to do with the regulations this school violated.

And just so you know--so long as a school--any--school is receiving federal funds they are subject to FAPE. That's the only law that matters partner.

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Response to MichiganVote (Reply #82)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:38 PM

85. Well, I'm not your partner, but what regulation do you think they didn't follow?

Be specific.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #85)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:13 PM

92. Per the rules governing 504 Plans, this child should have been evaluated for a 504 Plan.

http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/edlite-FAPE504.html

Since no 504 Plan evaluation was initiated despite repeat behaviors that are of concern and that DO result in the student being removed from instruction, the school is in violation. They cannot prove or disprove that the the student has a disability. If the school were to initiate an evaluation, the student is covered by the 504 Plan laws of by the IDEA laws during the duration of the evaluation. Meaning, there are limits to when or how often they can restrict the student from their instructional activities.

Federal law requires that schools address the consistent and repetitive misbehavior of students.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/ED/htm/ED.37.htm

In addition: Seclusion = restricted from the General Education Curriculum

SUMMARY OF SECLUSION AND RESTRAINT STATUTES, REGULATIONS, POLICIES AND GUIDANCE, BY STATE AND TERRITORY
54
ILLINOIS
Statutes:
Section 1.280 Discipline
Section 24-24 of the School Code provides for teachers, other certificated educational employees and persons providing a related service for or with respect to a student as determined by the board of education to maintain discipline in the schools.
The board of education shall establish and maintain a parent-teacher advisory committee as provided in Section 10-20.14 of the School Code .
The board of education shall establish a policy on the administration of discipline in accordance with the requirements of Sections 10-20.14 and 24-24 of the School Code and disseminate that policy as provided in Section 10-20.14 of the School Code.
Any use of isolated time out or physical restraint permitted by a board’s policy shall conform to the requirements of Section 1.285 of this Part. If isolated time out or physical restraint is to be permitted, the policy shall include:
• the circumstances under which isolated time out or physical restraint will be applied;
• a written procedure to be followed by staff in cases of isolated time out or physical restraint;
• designation of a school official who will be informed of incidents and maintain the documentation required pursuant to Section 1.285 of this Part when isolated time out or physical restraint is used;

• the process the district or other administrative entity will use to evaluate any incident that results in an injury that the affected student (or the responsible parent or guardian), staff member, or other individual identifies as serious;
• a description of the alternative strategies that will be implemented when determined advisable pursuant to Section 1.285(f)(4) of this Part; and
• a description of the district’s or other administrative entity’s annual review of the use of isolated time out or physical restraint, which shall include at least:
o the number of incidents involving the use of these interventions,
o the location and duration of each incident,
o identification of the staff members who were involved,
o any injuries or property damage that occurred, and
o the timeliness of parental notification and administrative review.

In addition to, or as part of, its policy on the maintenance of discipline, each board of education shall adopt policies and procedures regarding the use of behavioral interventions for students with disabilities who require such intervention. Each board’s policies and procedures shall conform to the requirements of Section 14-8.05(c) of the School Code .
(Source: Amended at 26 Ill. Reg. 1157, effective January 16, 2002)

SUMMARY OF SECLUSION AND RESTRAINT STATUTES, REGULATIONS, POLICIES AND GUIDANCE, BY STATE AND TERRITORY
55
Section 1.285 Requirements for the Use of Isolated Time Out and Physical Restraint
Isolated time out and physical restraint as defined in this Section shall be used only as means of maintaining discipline in schools (that is, as means of maintaining a safe and orderly environment for learning) and only to the extent that they are necessary to preserve the safety of students and others. Neither isolated time out nor physical restraint shall be used in administering discipline to individual students, i.e., as a form of punishment. Nothing in this Section or in Section 1.280 of this Part shall be construed as regulating the restriction of students’ movement when that restriction is for a purpose other than the maintenance of an orderly environment (e.g., the appropriate use of safety belts in vehicles).
a) “Isolated time out” means the confinement of a student in a time-out room or some other enclosure, whether within or outside the classroom, from which the student’s egress is restricted. The use of isolated time out shall be subject to the following requirements.
1) Any enclosure used for isolated time out shall:
A. have the same ceiling height as the surrounding room or rooms and be large enough to accommodate not only the student being isolated but also any other individual who is required to accompany that student;
B. be constructed of materials that cannot be used by students to harm themselves or others, be free of electrical outlets, exposed wiring, and other objects that could be used by students to harm themselves or others, and be designed so that students cannot climb up the walls (including walls far enough apart so as not to offer the student being isolated sufficient leverage for climbing); and
C. be designed to permit continuous visual monitoring of and communication with the student.
2) If an enclosure used for isolated time out is fitted with a door, either a steel door or a wooden door of solid-core construction shall be used. If the door includes a viewing panel, the panel shall be unbreakable.
3) An adult who is responsible for supervising the student shall remain within two feet of the enclosure.
4) The adult responsible for supervising the student must be able to see the student at all times. If a locking mechanism is used on the enclosure, the mechanism shall be constructed so that it will engage only when a key, handle, knob, or other similar device is being held in position by a person, unless the mechanism is an electrically or electronically controlled one that is automatically released when the building’s fire alarm system is triggered. Upon release of the locking mechanism by the supervising adult, the door must be able to be opened readily.
b) “Physical restraint” means holding a student or otherwise restricting his or her movements. “Physical restraint” as permitted pursuant to this Section includes only the use of specific, planned techniques (e.g., the “basket hold” and “team control”).
c) The requirements set forth in subsections (d) through (h) of this Section shall not apply to the actions described in this subsection (c) because, pursuant to Section 10-20.33 of the School Code , “restraint” does not include momentary periods of physical restriction by direct person-to-person contact, without the aid of material or mechanical devices, accomplished with limited force and designed to:
1) prevent a student from completing an act that would result in potential physical harm to himself, herself, or another or damage to property; or
2) remove a disruptive student who is unwilling to leave the area voluntarily.



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Response to MichiganVote (Reply #92)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:26 PM

94. Tell me how you know nothing was initiated? Do you have this child's records? nt


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Response to msanthrope (Reply #94)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:29 PM

95. Do you? Unlike you, I work this stuff. Parents don't go to the press if work is in progress.

But just keep hoping, that'll do it. Going to bed. Later...

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Response to MichiganVote (Reply #95)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:43 PM

97. I taught kids adjudicated into care. I worked this stuff, too. Then I went to law school.

So if you want to use an appeal to authority, try it on someone else.

FYI--people go to the press for many reasons. As a criminal defense attorney, I can assure you that going to the press is not necessarily a sign of a pure agenda.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #48)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:47 PM

61. laws are for public schools.

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #61)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 06:19 PM

63. Seriously. It is illegal.

My dad was an administrator at a private school. They withheld a report card because the parent had not paid tuition. Parent filed a lawsuit and the school had to turn over the report card.

When I was in college, my transcript was withheld because the school claimed I had an unpaid parking ticket. But I didn't even own a car. So my dad had his attorney write the school a letter and they released my transcript. I kept getting letters for a couple years wanting payment for the parking ticket but they never put a hold on my transcript again.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #63)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 06:25 PM

65. yet apparently they're doing it. i believe a lot of the stunts the banksters pulled were illegal as

 

well, like knowingly selling defective products.

yet here we are.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #65)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 06:28 PM

66. Like I said, Mom needs a good lawyer.

Amazing what a strongly worded letter can accomplish

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #66)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:30 PM

96. Yep. Welcome to the REAL public schools Charter.....

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 07:25 PM

71. Charter schools are like Lake Wobegone

They make sure that all the children are "above average."

IF you know what I mean.

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:54 PM

88. A new low in the Race To the Toilet initiative. This is criminal, truly criminal.

K&R

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 12:59 AM

113. Teenagers need Marijuana MORE than they need Charter Schools

You will realize this is true, only when it is too late.

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