HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » I have been doing some re...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 06:05 PM

I have been doing some research. Were more people killed by hammers and baseball bats than rifles?

In the last ten years?
Numbers seem hard to come by.
Any help with reliable data would be appreciated.
I would really like to compare data from the 1994-2004 AWB years to the 2004-2012 years.
Thanks in advance.

CD

24 replies, 3020 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 24 replies Author Time Post
Reply I have been doing some research. Were more people killed by hammers and baseball bats than rifles? (Original post)
Chuuku Davis Jan 2013 OP
PoliticAverse Jan 2013 #1
Xipe Totec Jan 2013 #2
catnhatnh Jan 2013 #3
gollygee Jan 2013 #6
Duckhunter935 Jan 2013 #13
aikoaiko Jan 2013 #22
jazzimov Jan 2013 #4
safeinOhio Jan 2013 #5
Kalidurga Jan 2013 #7
Lex Jan 2013 #8
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #9
Chuuku Davis Jan 2013 #10
kestrel91316 Jan 2013 #11
Duckhunter935 Jan 2013 #14
kudzu22 Jan 2013 #16
LeftInTX Jan 2013 #19
spanone Jan 2013 #12
okaawhatever Jan 2013 #15
jmg257 Jan 2013 #17
krispos42 Jan 2013 #18
WinkyDink Jan 2013 #20
JaneyVee Jan 2013 #21
rgbecker Jan 2013 #23
TheCowsCameHome Jan 2013 #24


Response to Chuuku Davis (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 06:12 PM

2. That's literally true. Few people have been killed with rifles. Most are killed with bullets. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chuuku Davis (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 06:15 PM

3. You need to improve your research techniques...

in 15 seconds I googled "snopes/guns and hammers" and got this:http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/baseballbats.asp

Problem solved.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to catnhatnh (Reply #3)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 06:22 PM

6. The NRA is playing a game here

They specify "rifles" so as to make the number of gun deaths look smaller than it is. It's a word game. "Are more people killed by baseball bats than station wagons" when you're comparing baseball bat to car deaths.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to catnhatnh (Reply #3)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 06:45 PM

13. rifles

that includes handguns

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to catnhatnh (Reply #3)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:34 PM

22. How strange that snopes isn't aware of the uniform crime report



http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8

To be accurate, one should say that blunt objects, like hammers and bats, account for more homicides than rifles.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chuuku Davis (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 06:18 PM

4. It really doesn't matter

the primary purpose of a hammer is to hit a nail.
The primary purpose of a baseball bat is to hit a baseball (hence the name).
The primary purpose of a rifle it to kill something.

there is no comparison.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jazzimov (Reply #4)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 06:20 PM

5. Tust me,

It's not hammers, it's nail guns.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chuuku Davis (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 06:22 PM

7. I am still waiting for the gun nuts to talk about heart attack rates.

But, they won't do that. I think it's because they know that people who own guns are also more likely to die from heart disease.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chuuku Davis (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 06:23 PM

8. Have you done any research on apples versus oranges?






Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chuuku Davis (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 06:24 PM

9. Why bother? It won't stop the argument.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chuuku Davis (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 06:36 PM

10. This is for a paper I am planning for our local newspaper

The problem is that the info I can find is not specific enough.
What I can find says knives kill more than rifles.
The right wing nuts I know say bats and hammers kill more than assault rifles.
But I can't find specifics on numbers.
That is what I am looking for.
And snopes info doesn't help.

I am really looking for factual data.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chuuku Davis (Reply #10)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 06:39 PM

11. Call your local police department and find out how they keep statistics and who they report them to

on the federal level.

And don't waste time talking to the desk drone. Talk to an administrative person.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chuuku Davis (Reply #10)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 06:49 PM

14. it will be harder

to qualify "assault rifles"

The legal definition of assault rifle is full automatic or select fire and are very rarely used in crimes. Assault weapon is a looser term that has different definitions. I think most statistics would be under hand gun or rifle.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chuuku Davis (Reply #10)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 07:34 PM

16. The FBI keeps stats from the Uniform Crime Reports

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kudzu22 (Reply #16)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:08 PM

19. Thanks for the link

Debunks Marsha Blackburn's meme that hammers kill more people than guns.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chuuku Davis (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 06:40 PM

12. well, i don't think there were any mass murders from either.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chuuku Davis (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 07:09 PM

15. The diversion was that the FBI separates rifles and handguns in it's crime stats. Yes, RIFLES (only)

have killed more, but handguns deaths are 9x more than rifle deaths. Also, the hammer category includes basically all blunt objects. Just as the knife category includes basically all sharp objects, knives, swords, scalpels, etc. The categories I think are along the lines of cause of death by coroners. Sharp force trauma, blunt force trauma, and so on. If you combine rifles and handguns they are 69% of murders. Some other things that are important to note:

These stats only include murders, they do not include accidental deaths. I am going to assume a whole lot more accidental deaths come from guns than the other categories.

These stats do not include injuries. The paralyzations, blindings, amputations and myriad other problems.

Any reduction in gun deaths must also be mitigated by the improvement in trauma surgery and the ability to save lives versus previous years.

The numbers of suicide attempts by gun. A great many more of those are successful.

The # of children and innocent by-standers who are killed or injured by gunshots. It was rare that someone killed a sleeping child in their bedroom because there was a fight in the street with knives, not so with guns. There are many instances of children inside houses being killed by a gunfight outside their homes. Armour piercing bullets have made that worse.

No data on the number of crimes that happen at gunpoint. Example: rapes, carjackings, robberies, etc. While one can be raped or carjacked at knifepoint, they have a greater opportunity to escape or survive.

Due to the influence of the NRA, there have not been any studies done on guns. They have blocked all funding through lobbying, campaign funding, and attacks on candidates that don't support their view. They claim they are not opposed to studies on guns, just federal funding for it. Absolutely absurd, borderline criminal. They have also blocked the confirmation of a head for ATF, and any increase in the number of ATF agents. Again, that should be criminal.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chuuku Davis (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 07:47 PM

17. Not sure but 35 mass murders between '82 and '12 were with assault weapons.

Don't think there were that many with hammers and baseball bats.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chuuku Davis (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 07:55 PM

18. Yeah.

Blunt-force weapons are used in a bit less than 500 murders per year. Rifles (of which some are "assault weapons" by one definition or another) are used in a little more than 300 murders a year. Ditto shotguns (also, of which some are "assault weapons" by one definition or another).

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-11

An "assault weapon", by the 1994 AWB definition, includes rifles, shotguns, and handguns which have 2 primary and more than an allowable number of secondary features.

Some of the data on weapons in the table is "type not stated".

The "known" types are:

Handgun: 6,220
Rifle: 323
Shotgun: 356
Total: 6,899

Using only known numbers, here is the percentage breakdown:

Handgun: 90.16%
Rifle: 4.68%
Shotgun: 5.16%

The "unknown guns" total 1,684. Assuming a similar percentage as the known types, we get this:

Handgun: 1,518
Rifle: 82
Shotgun: 87


Adding this to the "known" totals, we get a grand total estimate:
Handgun: 6,220 + 1,518 = 7,738
Rifle: 323 + 82 = 405
Shotgun: 356 + 87 = 443


Blunt objects: 496.


So by any reasonable math, blunt objects are used significantly more than rifles. Ditto for shotguns.



You can go back to 1995 here, if you want.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chuuku Davis (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:29 PM

20. In my day, we did our own homework.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chuuku Davis (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:30 PM

21. Then why not just carry a hammer or baseball bat instead of a gun?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JaneyVee (Reply #21)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:36 PM

23. Next thing you know they're going to require carpenter licenses. Yikes!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chuuku Davis (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:36 PM

24. How many guns built a house or hit a home run?

.......while you're checking..........

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread