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Sun Jan 27, 2013, 03:39 PM

Obama says rural voices need to be heard in gun debate

(Reuters) - President Barack Obama urged gun control advocates to listen to views of rural Americans who use guns for hunting and said bridging a cultural divide in attitudes to gun ownership will be critical to his administration's push to curb gun violence.

"If you grew up and your dad gave you a hunting rifle when you were 10, and you went out and spent the day with him and your uncles, and that became part of your family's traditions, you can see why you'd be pretty protective of that," Obama said in an interview with The New Republic magazine published on Sunday on its website.


snip:
"Part of being able to move this forward is understanding the reality of guns in urban areas are very different from the realities of guns in rural areas," Obama said.

"So it's trying to bridge those gaps that I think is going to be part of the biggest task over the next several months. And that means that advocates of gun control have to do a little more listening than they do sometimes," he said.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/27/us-obama-guns-idUSBRE90Q0BA20130127

Rather timely, in light of the recent threads on rural voters as well as all the gun threads.

163 replies, 8247 views

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Reply Obama says rural voices need to be heard in gun debate (Original post)
YoungDemCA Jan 2013 OP
loli phabay Jan 2013 #1
RKP5637 Jan 2013 #2
wandy Jan 2013 #65
Honeycombe8 Jan 2013 #99
Hoyt Jan 2013 #3
loose wheel Jan 2013 #156
Hoyt Jan 2013 #157
loose wheel Jan 2013 #158
Hoyt Jan 2013 #159
loose wheel Jan 2013 #162
Hoyt Jan 2013 #163
leveymg Jan 2013 #4
Eleanors38 Jan 2013 #98
leveymg Jan 2013 #125
Eleanors38 Jan 2013 #129
leveymg Jan 2013 #135
Eleanors38 Jan 2013 #136
leveymg Jan 2013 #139
Eleanors38 Jan 2013 #141
jsr Jan 2013 #5
quinnox Jan 2013 #9
Recursion Jan 2013 #28
jazzimov Jan 2013 #49
Drunken Irishman Jan 2013 #70
BeyondGeography Jan 2013 #75
Recursion Jan 2013 #85
Logical Jan 2013 #114
Electric Monk Jan 2013 #29
quinnox Jan 2013 #31
bvar22 Jan 2013 #103
TeeYiYi Jan 2013 #131
reformist2 Jan 2013 #30
Benton D Struckcheon Jan 2013 #35
Riftaxe Jan 2013 #43
loli phabay Jan 2013 #53
Riftaxe Jan 2013 #67
loli phabay Jan 2013 #89
Kali Jan 2013 #6
reformist2 Jan 2013 #32
JaneyVee Jan 2013 #7
loli phabay Jan 2013 #8
JaneyVee Jan 2013 #11
obamanut2012 Jan 2013 #144
stultusporcos Jan 2013 #14
loli phabay Jan 2013 #15
stultusporcos Jan 2013 #22
loli phabay Jan 2013 #23
Glassunion Jan 2013 #47
jmg257 Jan 2013 #66
Glassunion Jan 2013 #76
jmg257 Jan 2013 #78
Glassunion Jan 2013 #80
jmg257 Jan 2013 #81
xoom Jan 2013 #118
jmg257 Jan 2013 #120
derby378 Jan 2013 #91
Riftaxe Jan 2013 #45
Arctic Dave Jan 2013 #57
Riftaxe Jan 2013 #68
Arctic Dave Jan 2013 #77
loli phabay Jan 2013 #92
JaneyVee Jan 2013 #90
Honeycombe8 Jan 2013 #102
quinnox Jan 2013 #10
Recursion Jan 2013 #13
quinnox Jan 2013 #18
Recursion Jan 2013 #19
quinnox Jan 2013 #27
obamanut2012 Jan 2013 #147
Kali Jan 2013 #41
Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2013 #61
Recursion Jan 2013 #106
Riftaxe Jan 2013 #48
quinnox Jan 2013 #60
bvar22 Jan 2013 #84
Sissyk Jan 2013 #127
obamanut2012 Jan 2013 #148
obamanut2012 Jan 2013 #146
loli phabay Jan 2013 #20
Fla_Democrat Jan 2013 #24
loli phabay Jan 2013 #25
msanthrope Jan 2013 #37
Riftaxe Jan 2013 #51
Lordquinton Jan 2013 #74
loli phabay Jan 2013 #94
theKed Jan 2013 #107
Go Vols Jan 2013 #39
cherokeeprogressive Jan 2013 #56
MightyMopar Jan 2013 #95
loli phabay Jan 2013 #100
MightyMopar Jan 2013 #104
Hoyt Jan 2013 #113
antigone382 Jan 2013 #137
Hoyt Jan 2013 #138
antigone382 Jan 2013 #142
Hoyt Jan 2013 #143
antigone382 Jan 2013 #153
Hoyt Jan 2013 #154
antigone382 Jan 2013 #155
nick of time Jan 2013 #132
obamanut2012 Jan 2013 #149
MightyMopar Jan 2013 #93
loli phabay Jan 2013 #97
MightyMopar Jan 2013 #109
Sissyk Jan 2013 #128
obamanut2012 Jan 2013 #151
Sissyk Jan 2013 #152
nick of time Jan 2013 #134
Skip Intro Jan 2013 #96
nick of time Jan 2013 #133
obamanut2012 Jan 2013 #145
whatchamacallit Jan 2013 #12
bluestate10 Jan 2013 #64
loyalsister Jan 2013 #122
Tikki Jan 2013 #16
Recursion Jan 2013 #21
Tikki Jan 2013 #46
Glassunion Jan 2013 #54
Tikki Jan 2013 #63
Glassunion Jan 2013 #79
Tikki Jan 2013 #111
Duckhunter935 Jan 2013 #55
Eleanors38 Jan 2013 #105
geek tragedy Jan 2013 #17
hedgehog Jan 2013 #34
tama Jan 2013 #58
Riftaxe Jan 2013 #59
forthemiddle Jan 2013 #26
hedgehog Jan 2013 #33
theKed Jan 2013 #112
riqster Jan 2013 #36
MightyMopar Jan 2013 #101
tabbycat31 Jan 2013 #140
Eleanors38 Jan 2013 #115
phleshdef Jan 2013 #38
cthulu2016 Jan 2013 #50
phleshdef Jan 2013 #62
mainer Jan 2013 #40
Thinkingabout Jan 2013 #82
Moses2SandyKoufax Jan 2013 #42
Oneka Jan 2013 #72
Eleanors38 Jan 2013 #117
cthulu2016 Jan 2013 #44
shenmue Jan 2013 #52
Heimer Jan 2013 #69
Demo_Chris Jan 2013 #71
Eleanors38 Jan 2013 #116
Demo_Chris Jan 2013 #121
aptal Jan 2013 #123
amandabeech Jan 2013 #160
Swede Atlanta Jan 2013 #73
amandabeech Jan 2013 #161
bvar22 Jan 2013 #83
Populist_Prole Jan 2013 #86
MotherPetrie Jan 2013 #87
Moses2SandyKoufax Jan 2013 #88
Peregrine Took Jan 2013 #108
longship Jan 2013 #110
krispos42 Jan 2013 #119
Skittles Jan 2013 #124
Ian David Jan 2013 #126
mmonk Jan 2013 #130
slackmaster Jan 2013 #150

Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 03:41 PM

1. i think he gets there is a rural urban gap here and weapons are seen differently depending where

 

You are.

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #1)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 03:47 PM

2. +1, n/t

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #1)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 06:14 PM

65. +1 n/t

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #1)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:38 PM

99. +1.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 03:52 PM

3. Yep, don't know anyone who has a problem with hunters as long as that's their true intent.

Unfortunately, too many say they are hunters while tucking a gun in their pants or wherever when visiting the city, or stocking up on guns marketed as tactical/strategic/assault weapons.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #3)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:32 PM

156. Strategic assault weapons?

 

Seriously. A strategic assault weapon is something like a large bomber (B-1, B-2, Super fortress, that sort of thing) or an intercontinental ballistic missile.

What your calling an assault weapon is extremely useful thing when your trying to get rid of prairie dogs or rabbits in the crops.

Weapons are nothing more than tools. Any tool in the wrong hands can create havoc.

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Response to loose wheel (Reply #156)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:47 PM

157. Tell it to these gun dealers/profiteers



www.strategicguns.com/

http://www.haleystrategic.com/training.php

www.strategictacticalgroup.com/train_schedule.html

To name a few selling TOOLS of mass destruction to people who obviously aren't interested in shooting rabBits, prarie dogs, etc. Training with targets that resemble people ain't preparing you to control varmits on the farm -- which my granddad did with a .22 quite well.


I guess these Michigan Militia members are training to shoot rabbits in the garden:





Confirming my experience, guns may also make people more aggressive:

http://huntingindiana.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=campfire&action=print&thread=8427


Yeah, they are just "tools" . . . . . .

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #157)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 05:14 PM

158. Guns do not make people agressive...

 

...any more than a spoon makes people hungry.

Also, the Michigan militia is an organized and recognized organization. Some of their courses are recognized as acceptable to achieve an EMT liscense.

I've seen hunting parties for deer that looked just about like that. Their hunting method guarantees kills but have always been highly distasteful to me. I hunt with a similar weapon, but I prefer stalk hunting.

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Response to loose wheel (Reply #158)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 06:48 PM

159. I bet your hunting party did look like that if you think Michigan Milita is a

"recognized organization" by anyone other than the SPLC. You guys crack me up.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #159)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 09:36 AM

162. Not much different...

 

The hunters used larger caliber semi-auto rifles.

The Michigan militia is active in disaster response and search and rescue, for which they train. The Michigan Militia actively works with the American Red Cross and has been used in five operations including natural disasters and searcha and rescue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_Militia

I know of at least one individual that was able to become an EMT because of them.

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Response to loose wheel (Reply #162)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 10:14 AM

163. Who cares? Confederate flags, Tbag flags, guns and white racists aren't my kind of organization.




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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:01 PM

4. Now, is someone using DU as a sounding board for these speechs?

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Response to leveymg (Reply #4)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:37 PM

98. Oh, you mean the post where Bill Clinton said much the same...

Never thought I'd see the day when Clinton and Obama were using DU to "sound" out gun and cultural topics.

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #98)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:06 AM

125. Staff and speech writers.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #125)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 12:40 PM

129. Well, why didn't I think of those two trains running.

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #129)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 01:05 PM

135. . . . before you crossed the tracks? ;-)

My original comment wasn't meant to be teasing or provocative, at all. Really.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #135)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 02:36 PM

136. My comment wasn't meant to be mean spirited. And obviously it wasn't funny.

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #136)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 03:32 PM

139. We're even, then.

Next round's on me.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #139)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:41 PM

141. Magic! I'm having it right now!



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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:04 PM

5. Okey dokey

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Response to jsr (Reply #5)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:10 PM

9. + a million

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Response to jsr (Reply #5)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:39 PM

28. The guy in the middle looks like my uncle. He has two STEM PhDs

And holds 20 patents.

He also shoots his AR on his farm. Your point is?

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Response to Recursion (Reply #28)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 05:31 PM

49. well, pardon me if I say

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Response to Recursion (Reply #28)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 06:36 PM

70. The guy on the left looks like my cousin...

He barely graduated high school and is now a tea-party Republican who believes Obama is a Muslim, communist who wants to take their guns.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #28)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 07:06 PM

75. Was that supposed to be a smackdown?

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #75)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:09 PM

85. No. Just a reminder that we don't know dick about those 3 guys

Statistically, at least one of them is probably a Democrat.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #28)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 09:05 PM

114. LOL, on that same topic, what is your point? Smart people are not gun nuts???

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Response to jsr (Reply #5)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:40 PM

29. Um, what does the guy in the middle have between his legs there? Is that a white cane for the blind?

I don't think blind people should own guns, for safety reasons...

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #29)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:41 PM

31. its a golf club

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Response to quinnox (Reply #31)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:46 PM

103. It IS a Golf club.

I live way out in The Woods with lots of rural gun owners,
and I don't know any who carry golf clubs.
These guys look more like Suburban Rambo Wannabes than anybody I know out here living off the Land.
These look like the the kind of guys who leave the comforts of the city once a year,
hit the Woods
get drunk,
and shoot at anything that moves,
all the while thinking they are Great White Hunters.


These people scare those of us who actually live out here.

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #29)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 12:49 PM

131. I thought it was a needle,...

...which explains the size of his weapon.

TYY

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Response to jsr (Reply #5)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:40 PM

30. They're Americans too, lol. Obama gets it.

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Response to jsr (Reply #5)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:51 PM

35. On a more serious note...

...someone here pointed out there's a Federal tax on guns & ammo that pays for stuff the Fish & Wildlife service does. Those of you who count yourselves environmentalists, think about this: large swatches of land were preserved from development for hunters. They were the original preservationists.
There's a lot to think about here, and calling each other names ain't gonna get us nowhere.

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Response to jsr (Reply #5)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 05:22 PM

43. Well if hunting is the purported purpose of the image

the guy on the left has chosen a low caliber, likely illegal for it.

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Response to Riftaxe (Reply #43)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 05:35 PM

53. depends on what they are hunting for. squirrels dont need anything powerful.

 

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #53)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 06:27 PM

67. Even a .22 will skin the squirrel for you

best to stick to pellet guns, a 9mm like that one would make hunting a squirrel pointless. If your hunting squirrels hopefully it would only be for the skin, because they define the definition of "gamey" and you need a lot of them for a meal.

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Response to Riftaxe (Reply #67)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:25 PM

89. nothing tastes better than buffalo style squirrel wings i highly recommend them.

 

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:05 PM

6. another bit of impressive "getting it" that President Obama has

I don't necessarily agree that only rural hunters should be the ones to have guns (I tend to go with the constitution on this right) but just the fact that an urban politician could see and say something like that is kind of impressive to me.

It is interesting who he is suggesting needs to listen, too.

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Response to Kali (Reply #6)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:43 PM

32. Obama's smart enough to know that liberal can get carried away very easily on this issue.


I'm already hearing/reading serious liberals talking about getting rid of the 2nd Amendment. O_O

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:07 PM

7. What a weird thing to say. NO ONE is trying to take away your hunting rifles.

I don't see an AR-15 on this top 10 hunting rifle list: http://www.americanhunter.org/articles/best-deer-rifles-today/

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #7)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:09 PM

8. thats deer rifles. an ar is better for stuff like hogs or coyotes or just used target shooting.

 

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #8)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:12 PM

11. 99% of all guns will kill a hog or coyote.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #11)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 05:22 PM

144. Not for a feral pig

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #8)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:15 PM

14. A Barrett 50 Cal is even better why F around with a pea shooter

 

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Response to stultusporcos (Reply #14)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:17 PM

15. not as mobile and a lot more expensive both to buy and for the ammo.

 

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #15)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:25 PM

22. You must not be a very good shot and need multiple clips to hit a critter

 

The Barrett has all the stopping power you will need to kill hogs and coyote's.

I swear I don't know how the west was settled with just a plain old Winchester 1873 lordy how did they stop all them critters and injuns with a lever action rifle!!!

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Response to stultusporcos (Reply #22)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:32 PM

23. yeh but the barrett is a pain to hump through the woods and you dont need the range

 

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Response to stultusporcos (Reply #22)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 05:28 PM

47. Well, to become a good shot one should practice.

Let say you want to sight in and practice with 100 rounds.


Barrett .50 m107a1 = $13,289
100 rounds of .50 = $480
Total = $13,769

AR15 .223 = $850
100 rounds of .223 = $77
Total = $927

If I could afford a Barrett I'd rather spend my money on a new Chevy Sonic
If I could afford a new AR I'd rather spend my money on a new guitar.

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Response to Glassunion (Reply #47)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 06:26 PM

66. NOW we are talking - what guitar would you go with? nt

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Response to jmg257 (Reply #66)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 07:08 PM

76. Les Paul. nt

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Response to Glassunion (Reply #76)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 07:18 PM

78. Aww - sweet! I have a brother-in-law who says he'll trade me his '58 Historic VOS

for my Taylor 815. (he doesn't like the neck and is getting a new Standard)

Had a couple Traditionals come and go, and a couple studios, but that VOS should be a keeper!
You are definitely much further along then I am though...I hope you get one you want!


Cheers!

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Response to jmg257 (Reply #78)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 07:20 PM

80. I'm looking for a couple of LP Standards to add to the collection

But damnit they ain't cheap.

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Response to Glassunion (Reply #80)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 07:21 PM

81. LOL- you aint kidding. Well - I hope you find a nice one you can afford! Good luck! nt

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Response to jmg257 (Reply #66)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 09:21 PM

118. Anything Paul Reed Smith.

 

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Response to xoom (Reply #118)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 09:27 PM

120. Another sweet choice..bud at work has beaut he wouldn't live without.

Always a bit much $$ for me, but Im sure I bought & traded enough Gibsons gretsch and Fenders away that 1 would have been worthwhile.

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Response to Glassunion (Reply #47)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:27 PM

91. If I really wanted a Barrett, I'd go with the REC7

AR platform, but chambered in 6.8 SPC. Range, muzzle velocity, stopping power. Uses a gas piston, too, so it should be about as reliable as a decent AK.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #7)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 05:26 PM

45. I don't see a prius in the top 10 of owned cars

presumably owned for transportation...we should ban them too

You tend to not see them very much in states with any noticeable weather differences between seasons. Even if you could force it to start, it would probably be shit in 6"+ of snow.

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Response to Riftaxe (Reply #45)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 05:44 PM

57. There Prius all over Alaska.

 

Winter has little effect on them.

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Response to Arctic Dave (Reply #57)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 06:30 PM

68. All over would be a bit presumptious

considering the sales to non government agencies is abysmal, what is their rating as petrol only vehicles.

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Response to Riftaxe (Reply #68)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 07:14 PM

77. You can find a Prius in any town in Alaska connected by roadway.

 

There are more Prius then sports cars in Alaska.

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Response to Arctic Dave (Reply #77)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:28 PM

92. but they are pretty crap for dirt roads and when it snows.

 

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Response to Riftaxe (Reply #45)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:27 PM

90. I'm guessing you don't live in NY or California. They're EVERYWHERE.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #7)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:40 PM

102. Surely you've seen the posts here that talk about banning all guns...

and generally deride anyone who owns a gun? The posts about "gun-nuts" as being anyone who owns a gun or supports the 2nd Amendment? Anyone who has a gun in the home for defense?

There is a faction of the left that does in fact want to ban all guns, although those people are few, and that will never happen. But it makes rural people leery of any proposal by the left to control guns.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:12 PM

10. no, by and large, we already know what the hicks and idiots think

About this, don't we.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #10)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:15 PM

13. You know, I can't imagine why rural voters are turned off by our party

*facepalm*

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Response to Recursion (Reply #13)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:20 PM

18. when you are dealing with the folks pictured in post #5

By and large, it is the proper response. There is a whole lot more than a grain of truth in the stereotypes of what many of the country bumpkin folk believe and think about this topic.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #18)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:21 PM

19. Looks like my uncle, who I bet is smarter than both of us

He has two PhD's from Rice, one in physics and one in mathematics.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #19)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:38 PM

27. so, there are always exceptions

If you really think any of those guys in the pic are on that level of intellectual achievement, I got some great unspoiled land to offer you, real cheap. On Mars.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #27)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 05:26 PM

147. How do you know that?

You don't.

Lots of good old boys and gals have advanced degrees, as well as smarts. Stereotypes are not only odious, but often wrong.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #18)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 05:19 PM

41. consider this a disparaging personal attack that has been hidden by a jury

from one of the people you just insulted.

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Response to Kali (Reply #41)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 05:55 PM

61. lol

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Response to Kali (Reply #41)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:55 PM

106. You are my hero/heroine (nt)

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Response to quinnox (Reply #18)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 05:30 PM

48. Ahh so it's the looks

Were you the guy at the '86 Ozzie concert in Kingston with the no fat chicks T-shirt? Trying to put a face to the moniker....

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Response to Riftaxe (Reply #48)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 05:51 PM

60. Ozzy Osbourne?

you must be kidding!

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Response to quinnox (Reply #18)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 07:58 PM

84. Well,

Last edited Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:49 PM - Edit history (1)

..should we assume that the stereotype of the castrated, corpo slave, cubicle dwelling, pasty faced, pear shaped, weak, latte drinking, whiney assed, smug, Limousine Liberal city dweller is accurate too?

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Response to quinnox (Reply #18)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:37 AM

127. Do you really think those guys are rural?

I know rural people. Those are suburban wanna-be hunters out for a day in the country. Hell, probably not even the country. Woody side of the country club golf course probably.

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Response to Sissyk (Reply #127)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 05:27 PM

148. I think so, too

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Response to quinnox (Reply #18)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 05:25 PM

146. You have no idea those guys are rural

They could very easily be from either the city or suburbs or exurbs.

You have no idea they are idiots.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #13)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:21 PM

20. i dont expect anything different from citidiots as we hicks call the city folk

 

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #20)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:33 PM

24. citidiots

Stealing that one.










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Response to Fla_Democrat (Reply #24)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:35 PM

25. your welcome ;)

 

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #20)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:59 PM

37. Those who critique the farmer and hunter, with their mouth full. nt

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #37)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 05:34 PM

51. Not really fair, there is a lot involved

in driving half a mile down to the local Taco Bell to procure food too...You have to find the keys, and the adjustment of the sun visor is crucial (dang sun keeps moving), and that even barely touches the skills need to shift a gear or properly operate the vehicle!

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Response to Riftaxe (Reply #51)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 06:54 PM

74. And then Ruralites wonder why they don't get the respect they think they deserve

just for "living tougher"

Who do you think buys the food farmers grow? We're all interconnected, and I see far more mud being slung from the rural folks and when it gets hurled back they are merely the victims of intolerant liberals.

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Response to Lordquinton (Reply #74)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:33 PM

94. no interest in getting respect from the citidiots just want them to stay off my property

 

And stop blocking my drriveway to go hiking. Fed up getting them towed for parking on my property.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #37)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:57 PM

107. About as bad as the rural folk

who disparage the city folk. On their computer. On the internet.

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #20)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 05:03 PM

39. +1

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #20)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 05:43 PM

56. Where I live we have a term one syllable shorter... "citiots". n/t

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #20)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:34 PM

95. Why should urban people even want to talk with someone like you.

 

I bet when your kid is deathly sick you can't get to a major city fast enough.

I've found that rural people are far more bigoted and close minded than urban people. Wonder why rural people kids are leaving the small towns in droves?

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Response to MightyMopar (Reply #95)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:38 PM

100. and yet you seem to be the one who is bigoted. i just know that assholes live everywhere.

 

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #100)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:47 PM

104. I'm the bigot who has to keep his mouth shut while they talk about "Martin Luther Coon" day

 

In most rural areas one can't even admit one is a Democrat. To live in a city, one has to be somewhat open minded just to survive, in rural areas most people live a in a bubble of disreality. Most of these rural people have more in common with the Taliban than with progressive Dems or even old mainstream Republicans.

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Response to MightyMopar (Reply #104)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 09:03 PM

113. + 0.896. Most of self-described rural hunters pack when they go to city.

They fear all those minorities, and stuff. Point is, most don't have their guns just for hunting, or varmits.

Our DUers may be different from the Tbaggers, but their support of guns sure sounds much the same at times.

Above does not apply to those who leave their guns on their farm, where they belong.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #113)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 03:08 PM

137. What the hell are you talking about???

Could you please provide a statistic for the number of hunters who carry their guns into the city with them? Or did you just make it up because it confirms your prejudices? I've lived most of my life in rural areas and I have never heard of anyone carrying their guns with them into the city when they go.

I support stricter gun control laws but some of the broad brush comments in this thread are beyond ridiculous. For crying out loud, people who live in the country aren't cave trolls. We wear shoes and we have TV and even the Internet now and then. And for the record, there are people of color in rural areas as well. I know black, Latino, and Native Cherokee people in my hometown, I know people in interracial relationships, I know gays and lesbians, I know people of all political and religious stripes, in one of the poorest and most rural areas of the state of Tennessee.

Rural areas are where some of the richest parts of American culture--music and dance styles, rich foodways, crafts & other skills, vernacular architecture, and story-telling are all present here.

And you can't make a broad brush attack and then disclaim any responsibility for its bigotry by saying it doesn't apply to the few who don't conform to it.

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Response to antigone382 (Reply #137)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 03:24 PM

138. You really don't think the bigots in say Georgia don't carry a pistol when the go to Atlanta?


You can't be serious.

Hey, I have a bunch of banjos and can milk a cow, but I know the yahoos who are into guns too.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #138)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 05:04 PM

142. I don't know and neither do you. Saying "most" do when you have no clue is irresponsible.

Offer a statistic or retract the claim. Or I guess I can just assume that you have no problem throwing around assertions that have no basis in known fact, and keep that in mind for future discussions.

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Response to antigone382 (Reply #142)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 05:11 PM

143. I'm sure I am correct. If someone is into AR15s, etc, highly likely they need a gun


close by to feel comfortable.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #143)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 06:15 PM

153. And how the hell do you know that most rural people are into AR-15s???

That is another unfounded assumption piled on top of the first one.

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Response to antigone382 (Reply #153)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 07:28 PM

154. Keep up with the discussion, that what this is about.


Do I have to point everything out to you, even if it is a given or obvious?

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #154)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:20 PM

155. You mean the discussion where you approved of a post that equated rural people to the Taliban?

That comment didn't mention anything about variations in attitudes towards or use of guns. It was part of a larger sub-thread filled with broad-brush attacks against people who don't live in the city (and admittedly, some unnecessary swipes at urban people too).

The bottom line is that I have lived in rural areas most of my life and I've studied rural sociology so I know that these attacks are crap. Adding unfounded assertions that you *still* have not backed up with any concrete facts was the last straw for me.

I would gladly support people who can speak from their experience in cities to discredit silly stereotypes of them as well. But I only have so much time to post and I'm going to prioritize the intellectual defense of the places and people that I know and love, as they are more regularly misrepresented and stereotyped here.

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Response to MightyMopar (Reply #95)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 01:01 PM

132. Your calling us rural folks bigots

 

and yet your post is full of bigotry.

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Response to MightyMopar (Reply #95)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 05:28 PM

149. Because there are no jobs

Everything has been outsourced.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #13)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:28 PM

93. I live in a rural area&they won't vote Dem because they're proud racist anti-intellectual homophobes

 

They think Democrats would be weak for even reaching out to them. I bet if the government did come for their guns, most of their families and neighbors would be secretly happy. I talked to one yesterday who said she would never need a passport because would never want to travel outside the USA. Our limited resources are better spent on urban people, women and minorities than appeasing people who will never join us. Most rural voters have more in common with the Taliban than with progressive Dems.

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Response to MightyMopar (Reply #93)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:36 PM

97. good luck feeding the cities without the rural lands. you should move to the city if you think its

 

Utopia.

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #97)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:58 PM

109. Much of our food come from corporate farms manned by Mexicans or the immigrants du jour

 

or from Mexico itself or even from China. There's nothing really special about about white rural farmers anymore. I grew up in rural America and live there now because it's cheap to run some businesses in the country because rent and wages are pitiful low, but education and skills are also very low.

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Response to MightyMopar (Reply #93)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:44 AM

128. Tell us.

Why don't you tell us where this fictional rural area is that you supposedly live.

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Response to Sissyk (Reply #128)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 05:30 PM

151. I wondered that, too

After the anti South OP of earlier today.

I've lived in the rural South most of my life, and never never heard or saw most of the stuff in this and that other thread. For some, Southern=militia or white power group member. It's insane.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #151)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 06:33 PM

152. i would imagine he is having to look it up.

Then he will come back and tell us where he is. lol!

For such a liberal board, the south bashing is some of the worst I have seen any where.

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Response to MightyMopar (Reply #93)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 01:04 PM

134. Yeah, I'm sure you live in a rural area.

 

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Response to quinnox (Reply #10)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:36 PM

96. What an ignorant and bigoted post. nt

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Response to Skip Intro (Reply #96)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 01:03 PM

133. +1000. nt.

 

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Response to quinnox (Reply #10)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 05:23 PM

145. So, rural voters=hicks and idiots

OMG.

This would include my two very educated parents, both of whom vote Democratic?

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:12 PM

12. Panderland

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Response to whatchamacallit (Reply #12)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 06:12 PM

64. No, Leadership, with a capital L.

The President is saying what any reasonable person understands. Rural people view gun ownership differently from urban people. In order to get gun laws that work, the discussion must include both groups. I don't own a gun and don't see any reason to own one, but my view shouldn't be forced upon my rural siblings, who do own guns.

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Response to whatchamacallit (Reply #12)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 10:39 PM

122. When did listening and paying attention become pandering?

He gives a damn what people think. Have we become so cynical that we now consider it pandering if a politician takes an interest in a culture they have not lived?

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:17 PM

16. I still think a tax added on ammunition would be a step in the correct direction for even rural...

gun/rifle/shotgun owners. Making each bullet count should be as important as owning a weapon....
and if you just want to target practice you should pay to play..


Tikki

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Response to Tikki (Reply #16)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:23 PM

21. There is currently an 11% Federal tax on all guns and ammo

It funds most state Interior and Fish & Wildlife departments

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Response to Recursion (Reply #21)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 05:27 PM

46. There is added taxes on taxes to many consumer items...I believe that most hunters....

are sharp shooters (not much waste) and more expensive ammunition will
discourage wanna~bees from just shooting to shoot.



Tikki

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Response to Tikki (Reply #46)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 05:39 PM

54. It may have the in intended consequence of deterring people who you refer to

as sharp shooters from practicing.

I was asked recently how many rounds I needed to kill a deer. My reply was thousands. The first few thousand are for practice the last 1 is for the deer (actually elk in my case).

I am taxed every time I go out and play my guitar for money. I am also taxed every time I buy strings. Now I will go through several sets of strings just for practice. If they were taxed through the roof I would choose not to practice. Thus hurting my performance when the time came to play.

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Response to Glassunion (Reply #54)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 06:12 PM

63. Then maybe learning to shoot should be at 'shooting ranges' and let the free market determine..

which ranges are the most affordable.
For many of us ammunition conservation is a health and safety and environmental issue.


Tikki

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Response to Tikki (Reply #63)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 07:19 PM

79. That doesn't adress your idea of higher ammunition costs.

The price of the range is whatever, but the ammunition would still be expensive for even the best shooter to practice with.

All of the best shooters in the world fire thousands of rounds in practice before hunting or competing.

Your idea would dissuade hunters and competitors from practicing.

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Response to Glassunion (Reply #79)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 09:00 PM

111. I'll be blunt...the idea would be to make ammunition, ultimately, only available...

through and at shooting ranges where all shooting except actual hunting (during season, limited amount of ammunition)
including learning to shoot would be conducted.
The free-market would determine the cost....the American way, eh?

I don't want you to have free reign over my turf if you are totting a gun around. Weapons have consequences
..not just accidentally to health and life but, also, environmentally.

Tikki



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Response to Tikki (Reply #46)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 05:40 PM

55. If I were a mass killer using a rifle

a few dollars in taxes is really going to stop me

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Response to Tikki (Reply #46)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:54 PM

105. I shoot scores of $2 rounds at the range so I can "shoot sharply" that one round.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)


Response to geek tragedy (Reply #17)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:49 PM

34. I think a lot of people feel a need for a gun because of the dead children in cities.

All too often, young kids are caught in cross fire between older teens and adults. People shooting at other people they know personally are not a hazard to anonymous suburbanites unless they happen to get caught in the crossfire, too. Yes, I know there are such things as house invasions and hold-ups, but it seems to me most gun crimes involve someone settling a personal dispute.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #17)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 05:44 PM

58. Stop drug war nt

 

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #17)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 05:46 PM

59. Nah, they are just sane enough to properly place the blame

really sucks during a which hunt, which is why rural America should be ignored.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:37 PM

26. transfer of guns

So will the background checks legislation bypass this type of transfer? In If it does that would alleviate a lot of the trepidation from rural voters.
Guns have been handed down for generations yet I understood that under new background check previsions they would no longer be allowed.

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Response to forthemiddle (Reply #26)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:44 PM

33. that's a good example of the kind of question that needs to be addressed in a

very clear fashion. A similar situation is giving a new firearm as a gift at Christmas or birthday to a teenager. Lots of hunting rifles are given as gifts. Quite seriously, provisions need to be made to accommodate these customs.

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Response to hedgehog (Reply #33)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 09:00 PM

112. The giving of firearms as a gift

should work around the lae, not vice versa.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:55 PM

36. The stereotyping of rural voters here is sickening

If that sort of thing were directed at, say, women or blacks, all y'all would be marching with torches and pitchforks. But it's apparently OK to dehumanize people who live in rural areas.

And Liberals wonder why so many country folks vote Red. Bigoted fucks, if I weren't well informed, I'd vote against Dems too after all the abuse they hand people like me.

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Response to riqster (Reply #36)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:39 PM

101. I live in a rural area and the stereotypes are mostly true

 

When I moved to a small town because of work, they asked how could I be a Democrat because I wasn't black, wasn't gay and worked hard.

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Response to MightyMopar (Reply #101)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:01 PM

140. I worked in a rural district last year

And while some of the stereotypes are true, that is not the case for all rural voters.

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Response to riqster (Reply #36)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 09:05 PM

115. Unpossible! Liberals aren't bigoted, esp. toward rural whites. Unheard of on DU!

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 05:01 PM

38. Despite the complaining in this thread, this is exactly the tact a leader is suppose to take.

President Obama already put forward a set of gun control proposals that include assault weapon bans and mag limits and a ton of other regulations, studies and proposals that we need. A big chunk of this country is against any gun control whatsoever. Barack Obama is their President too. This is their country too. And unless he can win over the constituencies of a considerable number of Republicans and rural Democrats on some of these measures he has proposed, then theres very little chance of any of this stuff getting passed, even the stuff that both sides would normally agree on if politics weren't in the way.

I don't know why so many other liberals get offended when this President acts like the level headed statesman that he is. I guess I should be glad they are keyboard warrior-ing on DU instead of having an actual leadership role in government, otherwise this government would get even less done than it already does.

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Response to phleshdef (Reply #38)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 05:33 PM

50. re: tact versus tack

Just a FYI for folks reading the thread.

An approach to action, a plan, a technique are called something that sounds like tact, and tact is like tactic so it is perfectly sensible that many of us hear the term as "tact," by the term is actually '"tack," referring to a path taken by a sailing ship realtive to the positioning of its sail(s), like "tacking into the wind."

A case where the obvious ("tact" appears to make a lot of sense) happens not to be right.

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Response to cthulu2016 (Reply #50)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 06:02 PM

62. LOL. Not really sure what you are getting at.

But I was using tact as in "Acute sensitivity to what is proper and appropriate in dealing with others, including the ability to speak or act without offending."

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/tact

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 05:10 PM

40. He is right.

Our family is split down the middle on this issue. One son lives in a rural area, where hunting and farming is part of the culture. Kids there grow up understanding that guns are tools, and they understand and respect them.

The other son can't understand the necessity of guns, is afraid of them, and thinks the whole country should be disarmed.

There's no bridging that gap in opinion, either around our family dinner table, or in this country. I can see both sides of the issue, and it behooves Democrats to be open to hearing from rural voters as well.

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Response to mainer (Reply #40)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 07:33 PM

82. It should be about being sensible, I grew up in rural area, family of hunters,

Still participate in hunting and do not see any reason to use weapons of war and high capacity magazines to hunt. In fact everyone around would be making fun of the hunter who needed to shoot numerous times and did nit get the game. The hunter who needs the large capacities needs practice and training. There are other issues also with mental health, video games and movies, perhaps the paint ball games also. Do guns, ammo and magazine size need to be regulated, sure does, the only ones who needs weapons of war is military and law enforcement. Don't blame those who sees the need for regulation, we are not in the mass shootings, get mad at the crazy portion who are guilty, they will be the ones who caused gun regulation. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 05:21 PM

42. If society is going to make progress on this issue (as we have on many other social issues),

it might be a better strategy to just ignore those conservative rural voices. Focus on the suburban women who are either indifferent to this issue, or who's minds can be changed. The rural demographic is shrinking, and mostly hostile toward our goals anyway.

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Response to Moses2SandyKoufax (Reply #42)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 06:47 PM

72. As a rural gun owner

i am sure glad that we live under a constitution, where a simple majority, can not impose it's will on the despised minority, where constitutionally protected, individual, rights are concerned.

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Response to Oneka (Reply #72)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 09:21 PM

117. You got that right.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 05:25 PM

44. What an odd, passive headline... AP's was more accurate.

The operative verb is to listen, not to be heard. The call is for gun-control people to act differently (to listen), not for rural voices to speak louder or more clearly.

(Reuters) - President Barack Obama urged gun control advocates to listen to views of rural Americans who use guns for hunting and said bridging a cultural divide in attitudes to gun ownership will be critical to his administration's push to curb gun violence.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 05:34 PM

52. Crimony pete

A voice of intelligence and fairness in the gun debate? Careful, some people can't handle that.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 06:35 PM

69. Well played Pres.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 06:41 PM

71. Be nicer if Obama would devote this much attention to poverty

Poverty, wealth and income inequality, healthcare costs, drug costs, ending the war on drugs, ending the war in Afghanistan, ending the Patriot act, ending Free Trade, repairing our infrastructure, bringing these banksters to justice, taxing the god-dammed wealthy, JOBS...

You know, the shit that EVERYONE wants and that doesn't require a constitutional convention to accomplish.

But hey, that's just me being me.

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Response to Demo_Chris (Reply #71)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 09:17 PM

116. Would be nice if many DUers would pay such attention as well.

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #116)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 09:33 PM

121. Yeah, but there it is.

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Response to Demo_Chris (Reply #71)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 11:31 PM

123. I agree goodness I agree.

I have been thinking this for weeks.

IMO, it is the least of our problems.

We have people dying on the streets of poverty, inability to get healthcare, etc... and they are making this their staple issue.

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Response to Demo_Chris (Reply #71)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 07:36 PM

160. You are so right

about the President and about folks here on DU.

JOBS! And decent ones.

It seems that no one in politics cares what happens here to most people.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 06:50 PM

73. Unfortunately he is correct.......

I grew up in a rural community in the inter-mountain west where people had guns, primarily for hunting. Even though crime continues to be relatively low, many have begun to position firearms in their homes and businesses to protect themselves from "bad guys".

As I have engaged with some of my former classmates, neighbors, etc. on the issue of gun control, I realize they have all bought into the idea that Obama is out to get them. While they generally agree that reasonable gun control measures such as universal background checks are a good idea they say that they would agree to that if the President was a Republican. But they firmly believe that Barack is going to come get their guns and make them do what? Work on a plantation? I don't know. The exchanges are chaotic and it is clear to me they are delusional but are energized by Rush, Hannity and the rest.

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Response to Swede Atlanta (Reply #73)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 07:40 PM

161. You know, when people get that bent out of shape,

something else is bothering them.

I'm from a rural area in the Midwest, and lots of people feel that the country that they grew up in, which they liked, isn't the same and they haven't even been consulted on the change.

I understand what they're talking about, but it's hard for me to put it into words.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 07:50 PM

83. Thank You, President Obama....and KUDOS

from this rural Liberal Democratic gun owner
who has attempted to make this very point on DU despite the shit storms whipped up by those in a hysterical frenzy.




<snip>
"I am one of the many, many responsible Liberal Democrats who owns guns,
and will continue to do so. We support Common Sense, effective regulation.
Some people should never have access to fire arms.
Gun Regulation would also need to take into account the vast difference between Urban Dwellers, and those of us who live Out Here. ---bvar22

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2049560

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #83)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:10 PM

86. I agree with you, and K&R

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:14 PM

87. Please, like rural gun lovers haven't been catered to up the wazoo already.

 

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Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #87)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:16 PM

88. +1

See my post up thread.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:58 PM

108. Obama = Bill CLinton = moderate rethugs/DLCr's.

Can't stand either one of them. Had to hold my nose to vote for them.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 09:00 PM

110. That's a great gun post.

Thank you very much.

I live in a very rural (national forest) area. Guns for hunting are basically standard. Many people I know hunt for food, with deer and wild turkey at the top of the menu. If people did not hunt here we would be overcome with deer and many would just starve.

Hunting here is good ecology, and it feeds many rural people who don't have the luxury of an investment account.

I do not have a gun, and I do not hunt. But that's my choice. Nevertheless, I have to support gun ownership being fairly liberally interpreted.

Nota bene: I will not get into over parsing that last statement. But, the words "fairly" and "liberally" may be a clue. Nor will I get into a flame war here.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 09:27 PM

119. The difference between urban and rural gun owners...

...is that the percentage of gun owners in cities that use them to hunt is much smaller than in rural areas.

If you own guns and live in a major city or urban peripheral area, then you probably have them for self-defense/home defense purposes. Your guns will therefore be optimized for that purpose.

Examples: semi-automatic handguns, mid-power revolvers, compact semiautomatic rifles in light calibers, compact pump-action and semi-auto shotguns, and pistol-caliber carbines.

If you own guns and live in a rural area or small rural town, or a modest city surrounded by rural land, then you probably have them primarily for hunting/recreational purposes, with self defense a secondary consideration. Your guns will probably be optimized for hunting&recreation with secondary self-defense usage, or you'll have several guns optimized for hunting/recreation and one or two for self-defense.

Examples: long-barreled, high-powered revolvers, bolt-action or semiautomatic rifles with long barrels in medium to heavy calibers, lever-action rifles with medium-length barrels in medium to heavy calibers, long-barreled pump and break-action shotguns.

Suburban owners probably have a more even mix. They tend to vacation to hunting areas.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 02:14 AM

124. we HAVE listened to them

THAT IS THE FUCKING PROBLEM

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:11 AM

126. "I need a hunting rifle in case there's a deer in the elevator." n/t

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 12:44 PM

130. LOL!

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 05:29 PM

150. He's right. And suburban voices, and voices from other kinds of communities.

 

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