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Sun Jan 27, 2013, 09:56 AM

We do NOT count votes by land mass! One vote, one person should all have the same weight...

no matter where a person chooses to live.

Just because some people congregate in a certain area doesn't mean their votes should have less power than those who choose to live in unpopulated areas.

Whoever owns the most land does not get the most votes. People mass is how we count votes!

All this redistricting garbage needs to be fought with everything we have. And stated in a way that makes sense.
Many people don't understand it.

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Response to cags (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 10:01 AM

1. When this finally comes before the SCOTUS will they really find that the more property...

you own, the more votes you have? Is the Republican party actually going to defend that in front of the entire country? I would love to see that!

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Response to Walk away (Reply #1)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 12:49 PM

10. Yes. I would love to see republicans defend their actions in court.

I would love to see Scalia, Thomas and Alio vote to uphold republican's attempts to cut holes in the Constitution. Interestingly, what republicans blatant attempt to retain power will do is push away suburban voters that have tended to listen to republican arguments.

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Response to cags (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 10:03 AM

2. Agreed, our election system is in need of major reform

The Electoral College needs to go, it has long been unneeded but now with the Republicans working to rig the electoral system in their favor it is truly showing just how dangerous the system is to our democracy. If the Republicans plan goes through the Presidency will no longer be able to be considered a democratically elected office.

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Response to cags (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 10:05 AM

3. Best way to frame this: "African Americans should not have 3/5ths of a vote."

Hey, we won the Civil War.

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Response to cags (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 10:29 AM

4. Not that long a go, only a few months,

many republicans feared the person with the most votes would not be the winner.

Now they want to make sure that is the case.

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Response to cags (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 10:50 AM

5. Gerrymandering isn't about voter numbers, it's about creating false majorities

I always have to start this with the disclaimer that gerrymandering sucks and it dilutes democracy to the lowest common denominator so I am NOT advocating it.

Congressional districts are assigned to states based on the 10 year census. They figure out how many people fit into 1/435th of the the total US population and distribute those number out to the states. You see states like Ohio lose districts and you see states like Az gain districts. Once a state has it's number of districts, in the case of Ohio with 16 congressional seats, they split up the population and put 1/16th of the population into each district. So in Ohio that puts about 725,000 people in each congressional district.

No matter what it looks like on the map, they're not voting by land mass. Some districts are small because the population is dense packed - like in Cincinnati or Cleveland. Some districts are big because the population is sparse. Historically, dense populations have tended to be democratic for a bazillion reasons. That's what makes the map look like physically big red areas and physically small blue areas.

The issue with gerrymandering is not about making any votes count more or less but about ideology and redistributing "excess majority". If you've got an existing district ( like, for example Boehner's in SW ohio) that votes 75%+ republican...in the eyes of republicans, anything over 51% is just plain wasted. Better to take some of that solid republican support and carve a little off to give to another district (like, for example Chabot, right next door in SW Ohio) who might only get 48-49% of the vote. Push a few of his democratic constituents into another district and trade them for some of Boehner's because - after all - he's got majority to spare.

What gerrymandering does is try to draw the lines so that the big excess majority districts redistribute some of that excess into districts that are much closer. In a 750,000 person district that's running about 52% democratic, shift 15,000 voters from democratic to republican reverses the outcome. You don't have to move the lines very much to move 15,000 voters.

Gerrymandering works both ways, it's not just a tool of the insane right. I believe MD-3, a democratic district in a democratically controlled state, is the most gerrymandered district in the country - the lines look like they were drawn by a chicken with its head cut off. There's a bunch out in california that look the same way.

So gerrymandering is about managing the ideology of the district, not the vote count. We howl when it moves the ideology against us but probably stay quiet in cases where it goes in our favor.

I'm sure the smart guys at MIT or CalTech could come up with some way to slice and dice the population of states into districts that was completely unbiased. I'm also sure the resistance from both left and right to such a plan would leave it DOA.

It's not that anyone's vote don't count - it's that their votes don't matter

Just my 2 cents on this.

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Response to cags (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 11:01 AM

6. ORLLY?

Um what about the electoral college?

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Response to cags (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 11:03 AM

7. "One person, one vote."

Last edited Sun Jan 27, 2013, 12:21 PM - Edit history (1)

Same rules for everybody.
Indeed.

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Response to cags (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 12:20 PM

8. Thanks. California, New York and other populous states are being cheated at the polls.

If you are from Indiana or Montana or Alabama, your vote counts more than mine in the presidential election simply because I live in California, a state with a huge population and only two senators.

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Response to cags (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 12:43 PM

9. Republicans love to talk about the Constitution, but their efforts to devalue the votes

of urban and suburban voters would violate the equal protection clause of the Constitution as well as two or three other rights covered by the Constitution. Federal courts would have several paths by which to rule republican's attempts to change how electoral and ultimately Senatorial votes are counted unconstitutional.

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