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Sat Jan 26, 2013, 11:10 AM

Has the ‘Death of the PC’ Been Greatly Exaggerated?

(Possibly not the right forum ... but this is an area I've found interesting and I think others might too ...)

http://knowledgetoday.wharton.upenn.edu/2012/10/has-the-death-of-the-pc-been-greatly-exaggerated/

Skyrocketing sales of tablets and mobile devices have hinted at the notion that desktop and laptop PCs — once the staple for home computing — are beginning to collect dust in many households. And now, the numbers are starting to show that: Last week, Microsoft, a company whose business depends heavily on sales of PCs and related software, announced that its first-quarter net income dropped by 22%, with revenue down 8% from a year before. That followed an earlier report by research firm IDC that global PC shipments fell by 8.6% in the last quarter.

For many observers, such data suggest that the “death of the PC” is imminent. To get some perspective on that grim outlook, KnowledgeToday asked three Wharton faculty members if they envisioned a time when the humble personal computer as we know it will no longer exist.


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Reply Has the ‘Death of the PC’ Been Greatly Exaggerated? (Original post)
RKP5637 Jan 2013 OP
cynatnite Jan 2013 #1
Cooley Hurd Jan 2013 #2
randome Jan 2013 #3
dixiegrrrrl Jan 2013 #66
kentauros Jan 2013 #152
Blecht Jan 2013 #4
Cooley Hurd Jan 2013 #7
ToxMarz Jan 2013 #5
Bjorn Against Jan 2013 #6
Cooley Hurd Jan 2013 #8
Bjorn Against Jan 2013 #16
Confusious Jan 2013 #40
Bjorn Against Jan 2013 #45
WinkyDink Jan 2013 #68
Bjorn Against Jan 2013 #71
DeschutesRiver Jan 2013 #100
Cooley Hurd Jan 2013 #125
TheBlackAdder Jan 2013 #151
Cooley Hurd Jan 2013 #156
TheBlackAdder Jan 2013 #157
Cooley Hurd Jan 2013 #160
TheBlackAdder Jan 2013 #164
moondust Jan 2013 #9
RKP5637 Jan 2013 #10
kentauros Jan 2013 #153
supernova Jan 2013 #11
Dash87 Jan 2013 #12
RKP5637 Jan 2013 #13
DollarBillHines Jan 2013 #70
RKP5637 Jan 2013 #74
dkf Jan 2013 #20
Dash87 Jan 2013 #23
OriginalGeek Jan 2013 #103
kentauros Jan 2013 #154
Bjorn Against Jan 2013 #21
Dash87 Jan 2013 #24
backscatter712 Jan 2013 #31
Bjorn Against Jan 2013 #34
Confusious Jan 2013 #41
Bjorn Against Jan 2013 #42
Confusious Jan 2013 #47
Bjorn Against Jan 2013 #55
backscatter712 Jan 2013 #59
Bjorn Against Jan 2013 #63
Confusious Jan 2013 #83
Bjorn Against Jan 2013 #85
Confusious Jan 2013 #89
Bjorn Against Jan 2013 #92
Confusious Jan 2013 #96
Bjorn Against Jan 2013 #97
Confusious Jan 2013 #98
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backscatter712 Jan 2013 #117
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customerserviceguy Jan 2013 #161

Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 11:12 AM

1. I use my laptop most of the time, but I still like having the desktop, too...

If I do a lot of lengthy typing, I prefer the desktop.

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 11:13 AM

2. Extremely exaggerated...

I've owned several tablets (iPad, HP Touchpad, Galaxy Note and a couple of cheap Chinese knockoffs) and, for productivity, I will always revert to my laptop or desktop. However, for sheer mobility, a tablet will suffice in a pinch.

The "era of the iPad" and all the hype about how it was going to make the PC/Laptop obslete reminds me of the buzz right before Dean Kamen introduced the Segway - it was all about how it would render the car obsolete and we would be redesigning cities around it. 10 years later, and the only impression it's made (to me) was the laughter generated here on DU when pics emerged showing that Shrub fell off of one.

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 11:15 AM

3. Give us a virtual, adjustable keyboard and I will agree with this.

Or even something to replace the keyboard entirely but that would still be as efficient.

Otherwise, no.

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Response to randome (Reply #3)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 03:05 PM

66. "something to replace the keyboard entirely".....Ok, here ya go:

holographic keyboard, available now

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Reply #66)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:43 PM

152. I suspect that when people create things like that,

that they've forgotten one important aspect to a physical keyboard: the "give" of the keys.

That is, if you're going to be typing for long periods, you want something to give under the impact of your fingertips. Otherwise, they're going to get sore and tired much faster. You'll have to then resort to wearing some kind of glove with gel-tips to cushion your fingertips.

Might as well just use a regular keyboard. Or, invent one made out of silicon that you can fold or roll up for portability

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 11:17 AM

4. The PC is still the best choice for many tasks

The two that come to mind for me are:

1. A full-sized keyboard is still the most convenient way to enter text. Voice recognition will most likely replace it, but it's not quite there yet.

2. Watching videos with different formats works best on a PC. Every other kind of device has gaping holes in what it can handle.

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Response to Blecht (Reply #4)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 11:23 AM

7. VR is very close to being there -Dragon (after Nuance took it over) has really made great strides...

...and is a damn-near perfect product.

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 11:17 AM

5. There will be a variety of forms.

The death is just of Desktops/laptops as the only form factor. The right tool for the job, as opposed to one size fits all. Hard as it is to believe there are still people that do their laundry in the river with a washboard. It just works!

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 11:20 AM

6. PCs are never going to die, they will just change with the times

The new Microsoft Surface tablets are essentially PCs, they run PC software they are just sold in tablet form to make them more portable but I would consider anything that runs PC software to be a PC. You will definitely see a lot more tablet sized PCs in the future, but you will not see PCs go away anytime soon you will just see them change with the new technology.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #6)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 11:25 AM

8. Asus, Toshiba, Acer and Fujitsu make tablets that dock to keyboards...

That's really the best of both worlds.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Reply #8)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 11:57 AM

16. Yes, and soon all of those brands will have tablets that run PC software as well

I also expect we will see a MacPad announcement in the not too distant future, tablets are not going to replace PCs they are going to become PCs.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #16)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 01:20 PM

40. One is expected in February

I have been waiting with bated breath.

http://www.asus.com/vivo/en/transformerBook.htm

Of course, I'll have to get rid of shit windows.

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Response to Confusious (Reply #40)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 01:42 PM

45. Wow, I haven't seen that one yet but with an i7 processer it sure sounds promising

I currently use an iPad, but I have been considering going with one of the windows tablets when I am ready to upgrade because I hate that iPad does not include a replacable battery or a USB slot. That one you linked to sure looks like an attractive alternative.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #45)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 03:09 PM

68. What is the advantage of a tablet over a notebook?

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #68)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 03:19 PM

71. Mainly portability.

While laptops are portable to a certain extent I would not want to bring my laptop to bed with me to read before I go to sleep. My tablet I can bring to bed with me, I can bring it in the car on long trips assuming I am not driving, it is a very practical device if you are on the go. A tablet is smaller than most books so it is super easy to lug around with you and use in places that you would not want to bring your laptop.

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Response to Confusious (Reply #40)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 06:26 PM

100. Thank you so much for that info/link!

I've only got a kindle e-reader; have been hesitating about finally buying an Ipad as I wanted something that was a tablet but had laptop features like bigger storage, etc.

Dh said we needed an ultra-book type laptop that could also be used as a tablet - and I agreed, so decided to wait a couple more months before buying.

And I see that what we wanted may be found in this Transformer - that is just the best news (except I am not sure about Windows 8; that said, I would rather have W8 as the downside than all the other downsides I found with the Ipad or Nexus tablet only device).

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Response to Confusious (Reply #40)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 10:35 AM

125. Win 8 is very stable...

Yes, the Metro UI is a real PIA, but the OS, beyond that, is very stable.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Reply #8)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:42 PM

151. In other words... It's a TABLET that becomes a LAPTOP.

Still lacking the tower processing power, video procesing power.

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Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #151)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 05:38 PM

156. Not really... all have Core i5's

...and will be coming out w/ Core i7's shortly.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Reply #156)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 05:40 PM

157. Even if they get an i7, there are different variants of it.

Still, it won't compete with a workstation or gaming machine, which will always be ahead of the tablet machines.

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Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #157)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 06:36 PM

160. Mostly due to the lack of a powerful video card.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Reply #160)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 12:19 AM

164. Powerful processors and video cards demand two things: Power & Cooling

That is why a base station will always be superior.

The smaller scale they made the cores, the faster they will be and the less power they will consume.

Yet, whatever is stuffed in a tablet, more wilder things can be placed in a tower as the power and cooling will be better. Power is converted into heat dissipation, many towers run at 450W or higher... something that tablets and laptops cannot reach.

One problem with tablets and laptops is that the frames must be completely rigid and not flex when picked up by the corners. If you pick up a laptop and there is any deflection in the case... sooner or later the chips on the mainboard will separate and will need to be reballed. This is a common issue with laptops of all brands. The CPU chip is generally located mid mainboard. The video chip will be near one of the outer edges, most near the front right or left of the keyboard. When you constantly pick up a laptop by the corners... the video chip will eventually fail. The video chip runs at a temperature just below the liquidation of the solder. Any interference with the airflow prior to picking up the laptop or any major dust accumulations and you will get POST failures. These do not occur on a desktop or tower.

Note: Reballing is a process where the owner ships his device off to a site that solders the detached chips back onto the mainboard. Generally, when the device is under warranty, you'd just get a replacement device as this requires the mainboard to be detached from the housing. It's costs about $100 plus shipping.

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 11:33 AM

9. Don't ask me to use those little screens and keyboards.

No longer traveling much so I have little use for mobile computing.

I'd think business would stick with desktops for some time to come.

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Response to moondust (Reply #9)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 11:40 AM

10. +++ 1,000,000 +++ n/t

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Response to moondust (Reply #9)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:52 PM

153. Absolutely!

It always amazes me when some idjit makes such bold statements like this. They seem to think that the only computers in use out there are the ones people either carry with them or use at home.

Hello! How many computers are in use in businesses across the country? I don't know the numbers, but would guess it's almost equal to what people own.

And then there's the screen-size factor. Anyone (Microsoft included) that thinks we're all going to switch to portables isn't paying attention to reality. No firm that does any kind of design, be it architectural, engineering, products, and so forth, are going to give up large-format screens in favor of portability. There's just no comparison. Not to mention tablets don't fold out into dual monitors

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 11:43 AM

11. I'm in the middle of this

My last laptop, a MacBook, I bought in 2007 is maybe on the way out. Oh, it works fine, but 1) I have burned through three batteries that swelled. 2) I can't find a working AC adapter, burned through two of those so far. So the laptop is kaput until I can figure out a fix.

So, I'm in the market for a new computing solution. Heavily leaning towards a tablet because I am more mobile now. I read at different places. I own a business and to take a smaller tablet to a location while I work and accept credit cards would be perfect. You can't do that with a PC or laptop. I dunno. We'll see. The only thing I want to do that I don't know about on tablets is to do spreadsheets and accounting type work. The small keyboard isn't an issue, I have child-sized hands.

I however, almost cannot get to the point where I can have all three functions being the same device: Phone calls, reading/computing. There seems to still be a real dividing line between tablets and phones. If the Galaxy Note got any bigger it could work as a complete replacement. Ditto if tablets were to add phone functions (not everybody has skype).

Upshot, is yeah, I can totally see replacing the laptop with a smaller form factor.

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 11:47 AM

12. Tablets need a better interface first.

Examples: support for monitors, keyboard support.

Imagine trying to type an essay on one of those things? Murder to at least a couple of your senses.

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Response to Dash87 (Reply #12)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 11:49 AM

13. Exactly!!! n/t

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #13)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 03:16 PM

70. Or graphics

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Response to DollarBillHines (Reply #70)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 04:25 PM

74. Yep!!! n/t

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Response to Dash87 (Reply #12)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:06 PM

20. If the dictation programs improve you may not need to type much.

 

They are actually not bad but still not perfect. I had my niece do a project this way and it was pretty amusing seeing what came up.

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Response to dkf (Reply #20)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:09 PM

23. True. They still need a lot of work, though.

Another problem is, dictation is not realistic in an office. It would get annoying really quick.

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Response to Dash87 (Reply #23)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 07:07 PM

103. lol, if someone in my office was dictating to their computer

I would totally breeze by and holler something inappropriate.


Of course, we are a little more laid back than a lot of places....

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Response to OriginalGeek (Reply #103)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:55 PM

154. Thanks for the laugh!

Because I could see that happening in our office, too, especially from the various surveyors as they walk past. Doh!

I can't imagine what some random word would do to commands in AutoCAD

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Response to Dash87 (Reply #12)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:08 PM

21. Most tablets already do support keyboards and allow you to hook them to any high def television

Tablets are quickly starting to become nearly as functional as desktops, that is why I said in another post that tablets won't replace PCs they will become PCs.

I do think that desktops will be obsolete within the next decade however, once tablet PCs become as powerful as desktops there will be absolutely no reason that anyone would want a desktop. Some people will still want the keyboard and mouse setup but they will still be able to have that, they just won't have a giant tower taking up space.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #21)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:10 PM

24. I think you're right.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #21)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:40 PM

31. The day a tablet PC becomes as powerful as a desktop,

the same technology will enable the creation of a new desktop that's far more powerful.

If you're looking at two devices made with the same generation of chip technology, the desktop will always have the advantage in having access to more power, more heat dissipation, more physical space for components. Which means that desktops will be built to make use of those advantages, while tablets will always have to deal with running on a battery, in such a way that the battery life isn't annoyingly short, be crammed into a case small enough and light enough that you're happy to bring it with you, that doesn't have very much space or ability to keep things cool.

Sometimes, you want the tablet or smartphone gadget that you can use on the go, and sometimes, you want the horsepower.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #31)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:54 PM

34. From a technological perspective you are absolutely correct

From a practical perspective however I think that tablets will become powerful enough to make desktop towers impractical for typical home use. I should have specified in my post that desktops will be obsolete for home use, businesses will still need to use the towers if they need to process huge amounts of data at rapid speeds, but as far as home software goes everything is going to be made to run on tablets within a few years.

What is going to happen is that everything is going to be invested into making software run well enough on tablets that the general population will be happy with their performance, desktop prices are then going to skyrocket in price because they will become a technology focused on business needs rather than personal computing needs. So while you are correct that the larger machines will always be more powerful they will also become further removed from the average consumer. I am not saying this is a good thing, but it is the direction I see things headed.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #34)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 01:25 PM

41. Doubt that

Gamers drive a lot of the computer industry.

They're not going to give up 3D graphics and power for playing pong on a tablet.

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Response to Confusious (Reply #41)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 01:36 PM

42. Tablets are already playing graphically advanced games

Check out Dead Space or Infinity Blade 2 on iPad, the graphics may not quite be up to PC level yet but they are nearly as good as PS3 or XBox. As the technology advances the graphics will only get better, within a few years I have no doubt that you will be able to play any of today's PC games at max settings on a tablet.

While tablets already have great graphics, I will admit that right now they suck as actual gaming platforms. I have no doubt however that the gaming capabilities of tablets will advance rapidly and game developers will focus heavily on them once that happens.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #42)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 01:44 PM

47. I still doubt it

I've played some of those games on my iPad. Annoying as fuck. If it's not an arcade game, I won't play it on my iPad. I'll play it on my PC.

And they probably won't improve. They've reached some size and speed blocks with the PC, and that translates to size and speed blocks for tablets also.

More power = more speed. The tablet is always going to have limitations, while the PC will not.

PS. Even that one tablet/laptp I showed you, I might play some old games on it, but not newer games. To many limitations still.

It's good for doing some programming, testing, book reading, surfing. Those are areas it really excels.

Need to get a shitload of work done, get a PC.

Don't get me wrong, I would love it if we could carry a super computer around in our pants. Just don't see it happening.

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Response to Confusious (Reply #47)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 02:08 PM

55. With online streaming of games however processing power could become a moot point

While online streaming of games with services like OnLive are just getting started, it has the potential to make any game run at max settings on nearly any machine. Because the games are not being run on your machine but instead on a server possibly half way around the world it will not matter how fast your processer is because the game will be running on the developer's server instead of your machine.

I have no doubt the gaming industry is going to make their games exclusive to online streaming services as soon as the technology is up to speed, right now there are problems with lag but once they can address those problems they are going to embrace streaming and your own device's processing power will no longer matter nearly as much.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #55)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 02:21 PM

59. With that scheme, you're going to have some nasty lag.

You've got to transmit your button presses & joystick moves & such to the remote server, then it executes the game, and transmits the visuals back to you in a video stream.

And at that point, there's probably hundreds of miles and dozens of routers in between you and your game, each adding a bit of latency.

Can you say lag?

The most hardcore gamers are always going to want their games running on their own hardware.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #59)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 02:46 PM

63. OnLive is already up and running and it is said to run quite well

Lag is an issue, but it has not been as big of an issue as you might expect. Tests have shown that OnLive games don't have much more lag than other online games. Granted right now very few people use OnLive and if there was more traffic on the servers there would be more lag so the technology needs to be improved before it is taken to a mass audience. The technology will improve however and online game streaming will be the future, you can mark my words on that. I said the same thing about online movie streaming several years ago and people thought I was nuts, but now we have Netflix and Hulu.

Even if people don't want this it is coming because the industry wants it. People may like having their games on their own machine but the industry does not like it because it makes it far easier to pirate games.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #55)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 05:10 PM

83. I doubt they're going to be doing 3D game streaming

A 3D video card does 40 gigabits per second, 80 gigabits dual channel.

An average network card can do 1 gigabit per second, 2 dual channel, if all the planets are aligned. The best can do 10 gig, 20 if all the the planets are aligned, and you got the bucks.

That also doesn't include the infrastructure to run that fast.

So I doubt it.

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Response to Confusious (Reply #83)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 05:16 PM

85. As I said, it is already happening

OnLive is up and running and there are many graphically advanced games already available for online streaming and totally playable. This is not a distant technology, it is already here and available to anyone. Their servers are not prepared to handle the influx of customers a major exclusive title would bring yet, but once the infrastructure to handle millions of people is in place online game streaming is going to take off. There are rumors that the PS4 is going to allow online streaming and if Playstation does it Microsoft will almost certainly support it as well.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #85)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 05:24 PM

89. Seems like a looser

On 17 August 2012 the company laid off all of its employees.
OnLive entered into a proceeding known as an "Assignment for the Benefit of Creditors", wherein all previous OnLive shareholders purportedly lose their stakes in the company.
OnLive then sold off its assets and started a new company, also called OnLive.
On 20 August 2012 the company officially revealed Lauder Partners as the buyer.
On 27 August 2012, founder Steve Perlman stepped down as CEO, Gary Lauder became Chairman, and Charlie Jablonski, former VP of Operations, was appointed COO and acting CEO.
It was revealed in October 2012 that OnLive was sold for only $4.8m. For a company that analysts once estimated was worth approximately $1.8bn, there was some surprise at the low figure for which the company was sold off. Some analysts speculated that the true value of the patents held by the company was potentially in the hundreds of millions of dollars, but that the firm's poor bargaining position led to the cheap sale.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OnLive

It virtualizes the games, and then sends them out over the internet. Large hardware investment on their part, large usage of network resources on their part, which you have to pay for. It all adds up to a sucky experience, and not very profitable. Might as well just buy the game and play on your PC, you'll save money.

Of course, I could see companies doing it, because they don't like piracy. I personally would hate it. I'm sure a lot of gamers would hate it as well.

Video is also different from games. Games require a lot more horsepower then just video. My CPU uses less then 20% of one core when watching a HUGE file. A game, a current game, can require 100% from every core.

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Response to Confusious (Reply #89)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 05:34 PM

92. It may not have taken off yet, but it will

OnLive is struggling because it is ahead of its time, it takes a compelling reason to get people to switch to a streaming format and the young technology has not provided that compelling reason yet but it will. Whether OnLive itself will be able to build themselves into a major player or other major players like Sony, Microsoft, Amazon or Valve knock them completely out of the market remains to be seen. What is clear however is that online game streaming has already been shown to work and if it is working now there are no doubt people looking at how it can be improved. Just because it has not made money yet does not mean it can't be successful in the future.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #92)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 05:48 PM

96. Two major problems

1. If the company goes under, you loose everything you paid for.

2. No mods. I play Skyrim with a shitload of mods. New mods come out, I play it again. I buy the game because of that. If I couldn't do that, it would be 50/50 that I would buy the title, or even the next one after. The games that can be modded, I play and I buy the series. The games I can't, I don't really ever go back to once done.

(I've even modded the shit out of games that aren't suppose to be modded)

After the launch in United Kingdom, Computer and Video Games remarked that, after one month of use, the service was "working" and was adequate for trying or renting a game, but that it was not a substitute for owning a game on another platform due to the limitations imposed by internet connections (lag, freezing and smeary visuals, as well as high data usage for those on capped connections)


This basically means that every internet carrier would have to run new lines to make it work. That won't happen for the next 10-20 years.

I've seen plenty of posts about telecom companies not doing anything about it.

it also sounds like Microsofts idea to have streaming applications. That really hasn't gone anywhere either.

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Response to Confusious (Reply #96)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 05:57 PM

97. It is bigger than one company

If OnLive goes under they will sell off their patents and infrastructure and another company will build up online game streaming.

I will give you the lack of mods as being a major downside to online streaming, even with that downside however I don't see developers rejecting online streaming, they will embrace it because it will give them more control over their games. There are good things and bad things about streaming, but it is the future whether people like it or not.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #97)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 06:03 PM

98. Well, I for one hope it goes the way

of Microsoft's plan for streaming applications.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #42)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:04 AM

121. Key deficiency: tablets CANNOT be user upgraded.

You cannot- literally, can not- put a more powerful video card into any existing tablet. The same is true for the CPU, RAM, and every single other piece desktops can readily replace or upgrade. As newer gaming hardware is developed, the tablet (or console) will fall further and further behind until their next "whole hardware" iteration. By the time that hits the market, the desktop parts and pieces will have already advanced further than the 'new' tablet or gaming console is capable of supporting.

This is why gaming on a desktop built for gaming will always, always, always be a better gaming experience than gaming on a console, like a PS3 or an XBox 360, or any tablet mentioned. This argument, by the way, does not address the lack of capability tablets have as a gaming platform. They are inherently deficient in that arena and always will be.

Desktop gaming will always be more capable than tablet or console gaming. Always. It's one of the laws of technological innovation.

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Response to Confusious (Reply #41)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 01:36 PM

43. Very true. Gamers are always going to demand more horsepower. n/t

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #43)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 03:00 PM

64. My prediction: For gamers, VR's going to make a comeback.

Two words: Oculus Rift.

And the reason I say this is that the hardware wasn't there yet when VR was considered hip in the 90's - rendering was done with flat, untextured polygons, frame rates were in the 15fps range, and the latency was horrible. Latency in particular is a huge factor, because if you're wearing VR goggles, you don't want your view to catch up with your head movements a quarter second later - it's extremely distracting, possibly nauseous, and completely ruins the immersion experience.

The Oculus Rift, hooked up to a modern gaming PC, is designed to solve these problems. For one thing, we've got lots of modern computer and GPU horsepower, which can render beautiful and complex gaming environments, with almost zero latency. The Oculus Rift goggles have a 7" high-resolution display that gives you a huge field of view (as opposed to previous VR goggles with smaller displays that gave the effect of looking at the world through toilet paper tubes.) It's stereoscopic, of course, so you've got depth perception. The head-tracking is also designed to have extremely low latency, so when you turn your head, the virtual world updates instantly, rather than catching up a quarter of a second later.

The result is that the effect works much better now, and has earned the praise and support of gaming luminaries such as John Carmack and Michael Abrash. Carmack's already ported Doom 3 to use the Oculus Rift!

http://www.oculusvr.com/

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Response to Dash87 (Reply #12)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:29 PM

30. I do it all the time.

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 11:51 AM

14. I bought a tablet last year and I hate it!

Justs sits in my closet.

When it comes to surfing the internet or gaming, I love my PC (top of the line alienware).

I will be a hold out for the PC.

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Response to William769 (Reply #14)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 02:18 PM

58. Well if you need more space in your closet I will find your junk a good home :)

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 11:51 AM

15. I love using my nexus tablet on the go

 

But when I get home, I put it away and use my laptop PC.

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:01 PM

17. You can't really work on a tablet. At least I can't. No file management system

 

is a dealbreaker for me. And the screen is just too small.

I have an iPad I only use to watch TV occasionally (I won it in a charity raffle) and a Kindle Fire I use daily but only to read and watch videos and TV on in bed before I fall asleep.

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Response to forestpath (Reply #17)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:21 PM

28. File Management for Android

 

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Response to SayWut (Reply #28)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:57 PM

37. Thanks for the info!

 

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Response to SayWut (Reply #28)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 12:33 AM

116. The way to understand how Android works is to remember it's Linux under the hood.

When you install something like ES File explorer, or a terminal emulator, or you use adb to get a shell for it from your PC, much of what you see is straight out of Unix. The apps themselves are Java, running on the Dalvik virtual machine, are are essentially modified jar files. On mine, at least, most of my user data lives on the SD card, which is mounted on /sdcard, and that's where my mp3s, my ebooks, and most of my other stuff lives.

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:01 PM

18. With wireless based devices, I think the old all in one box PC is doomed

Take a wireless tablet or smartphone as the base CPU and portable device. Add cloud access, wireless monitors, keyboards, mice, hard drives and printers for it to communicate with and you have all the elements of a PC plus the advantage of portability.

Windows 8 is the next Bob/98ME/Vista - Microsoft is accelerating the death of of the PC.


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Response to ThoughtCriminal (Reply #18)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 10:54 AM

128. There's a lot of reasons for NOT having any of your data in the cloud.

And the cpu power just isn't there on a tablet.

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #128)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 01:04 PM

137. Those issues can be addressed

First, CPU. I create 3D models - for that, I need a pretty good CPU. But not anywhere near the top of the line - I do most of that work on a five-year old laptop. For just about everything else, I find a tablet more than adequate.

Cloud security:

1. Odd are, most of what you would be concerned about (banking data) is already outside of you home PC.
2. Anything that you would be concerned about can be stored on a local hard drive.
3. Odds are, your "Home" data is not really more secure stored locally.
4. Anything that you are really worried about, should be encrypted - whether it is local or in the cloud.
5. Critical data should be backed up locally.

The main advantage that I've found with cloud storage is for data that I want to access from anywhere, on any device, but I also have portable hard drives to archive.

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Response to ThoughtCriminal (Reply #137)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 01:12 PM

138. Any of my extremely sensitive date is kept on a flash drive that is not plugged into the computer

until I need to access it. Before I plug it in that computer is physically disconnected from the internet.

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:01 PM

19. Not sure, but I build my own PCs. The DIY community is thriving.

 

I often use my custom PC, laptop, and iPad in one sitting. They all three have qualities I enjoy, but I'm one that would do without clothes to purchase electronics.

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Response to EastKYLiberal (Reply #19)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 02:25 PM

62. Same here! n/t

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:09 PM

22. I have a tablet and laptop

I prefer to do most of my work on my laptop. My tablet (Kindle Fire HD) is for reading, the occasional games, and streaming video.

ETA I don't have a desktop anymore. I travel way too much to rationalize having one.

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:10 PM

25. I think

The emphasis on a dektop P C as the essential core computing product is waning, but it won't go away. It's simplt too powerful a tool - both for ergonomic and computing power reasons.

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:15 PM

26. What's the first thing people do with tablets?

Many times, they go and get a keyboard for them, and do a lot of their work that way.

And the tablet that is "killing the laptop" becomes essentially a new type of laptop. My prediction is that people using them in that way are going to find that the touchscreen will become annoying to use when they have it set up with their keyboard for typing - if only they had a pointing device that didn't give them the gorilla arm - we'll call it a .... mouse!

Really, the only think that's happened is that a new operating system, Android, has joined the computing world, and the PC has adopted two new form factors on top of "desktop" and "laptop": "tablet" and "smartphone".

Microsoft and Apple are trying to declare the PC dead, so they can sweep everyone into their walled gardens. ARM-based Windows 8 tablets are set up to forbid running software that isn't in the Windows store, and iPhones/iPads have had their walled garden from the very beginning.

Besides, for many applications, the desktop will never go away. What you sacrifice in portability you get back in pure horsepower. With the desktop form-factor comes the ability to run four or six core processors, upwards of 64GB of RAM, terabytes of storage, a video card (or two or three) with graphics power to blow your mind, etc. etc. etc. When software engineers sit down to write code, or graphic artists sit down to create art, what kinds of computers do they use? Desktops - because they've got the horses under the hood they need.

Desktops also got amenities like a bigger screen (or screens), a keyboard that doesn't seem like it's made for mice, that a good touch typist can really go to town on, those little things that make you comfortable, but are too big to lug around. Desktops will always have a place.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #26)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:56 PM

35. Right, they get a keyboard. Then they have TWO devices to lug around instead of one.

That's progress!

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #26)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 04:36 PM

76. Exactly as you said, it's a marketing/sales gimmick to push everyone into their walled gardens!!!

I will stick with a PC for many of my needs. I do like the tablet when I'm on the road, but other than that I want a PC.

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:21 PM

27. I use my tablet for fun. I use my desktop for work.

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:22 PM

29. Phone and tablet are fine for e-mail and Facebook.

For real work, you still need a desktop. You don't a huge one...I use a Mac Mini with a Blue Tooth keyboard and Samsung HD tv as a monitor.

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:43 PM

32. If I can't type on it, its useless for work

...so I have a desktop at work and a desktop at home. Maybe I'll get a tablet sometime, but I don't really see what I would need one for.

I do love my kindle though. Maybe I'll upgrade to the Fire one of these days, but what I have works perfectly.

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:43 PM

33. Yes, it has.

 

Tablets are a great mobile device, however, they're not the greatest productivity and work related tool. Biggest complaint I have in that area, is no multi-tasking capability.

I currently own a Nexus7, and have tinkered around with the Apple iPad and Kindle Fire.
I think they're fine for entertainment, social networking and specific non-essential utilitarian purposes
(i.e. I have apps installed for OBDII vehicle diagnostics, a guitar tuner and finding local restaurants).

My mainstay is my desktop PC. Between that, my laptop and tablet, I use it 75% of the time for any computer oriented affairs (followed by my laptop for another 15%).

As far as tablets taking the place of, or replacing my PC and laptop... never.

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:56 PM

36. Something else to consider

I manage about 100 PCs at my workplace & we've not been buying anywhere near as many PCs in the last couple of years as we did 4-5 years ago. That's not because we're using them less but because the PCs bought 5+ years ago were becoming outdated inside 6 months.

Virtually every computer we've purchased in the last 3 years is still functioning and there hasn't been a reason to update them. A basic PC with 2-4 GB RAM & a dual-core processor will run everything we need it to, they'll last 5+ years instead of 3 and won't need major upgrades to keep running. The big jumps in computing power in the last few years have been around adding more CPU cores and reducing power consumption, the major software companies have been making their software run more efficiently (Windows 7 runs better on 5+ year-old hardware than Windows XP did when the hardware was brand new and Windows 8 runs even better again).

There's not been any reason to purchase replacement systems. The older reasons to update - faster processors, faster & more RAM, and new software requiring those faster processors and additional RAM - just don't seem to exist any more for 90% of users.

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Response to ikri (Reply #36)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 01:19 PM

39. I think you're right on about that.

Processing power and OS's have become too useful and stable to need replacement every couple of years.

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Response to ikri (Reply #36)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 01:41 PM

44. If I may be a techno-geek for a moment

The reason for that is that they've reached the limits for size and speed.

The substrate they use, silicon-germanium, can't take speeds more then 3-4 G hertz. To improve speeds, they're going to have to come up with a new material to use. I heard diamond was one of the materials under consideration years ago.

The size they are at now allows the electrons to jump the junction of the transistor, kinda like a driver avoiding the light at an intersection by driving through the gas station.

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Response to ikri (Reply #36)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 01:53 PM

52. Don't forget about SSD's

They allow for faster boot-ups, faster program loading, and disk caching when used with a standard HDD.

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Response to IDemo (Reply #52)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 02:24 PM

61. Agreed, but

How many people actually need that level of performance? Sure if you want to get the absolute best performance from games or do a lot of video editing then you'll see some huge benefits from an SSD but that will only account for 5-10% of the PC market, the other 90% are using Office or surfing the web and just wouldn't really notice the benefits.

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Response to ikri (Reply #36)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 02:12 PM

56. I agree about the lifespan of desktops being longer. I just upgraded two of mine to Windows 8.

The older one was a Vista 32 bit and it's running better than new on Windows 8. I am doing my newer one as I type this. It was doing good on Windows 7, but when Windows 8 Pro upgrade is only $40 I figured it was too cheap to pass up. I read that the price was going up to $200 February 1st so wth. I think both of these computers will last quite a while yet. I used to buy a new one every year or two.

I like my android tablet for playing games, looking up things when I'm watching old movies, etc, but I'd give it up in a heartbeat before I'd give up my PC.

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 01:17 PM

38. Take a look at Dell's new Project Opheila ... it may be a hint of where Dell is going

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Response to LastDemocratInSC (Reply #38)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 08:59 PM

114. Yep! Interesting!!! n/t

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Response to LastDemocratInSC (Reply #38)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:14 AM

122. Dell was, last I checked, a strong backer of the Republican Party and its ideals and goals

I will not look at a Dell computer for anything. Ever. Period.

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Response to Occulus (Reply #122)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 12:15 PM

134. Which PC maker is a strong backer of the Democratic Party and it's ideals and goals?

Last I checked there wasn't one.

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Response to Cobalt Violet (Reply #134)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 03:04 PM

144. That's part of the reason I don't buy PCs "off the shelf"

The last PC I bought that way was.... what? 1994? 95?

I've been building my own from parts since then, using the best of whatever happens to be "on top" at the moment.

The exception is for video; since I also run linux, I always buy Nvidia video boards. Their driver support for linux actually exists vs. ATI, whose linux 'support' is like a bad joke....

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 01:43 PM

46. Not going to happen

I am sick of these "trend" articles that pronounce the end of books, of newspapers, of massive numbers of jobs.

They're full of shit.

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 01:45 PM

48. I use my iPad and Galaxy Note 2 many times throughout the day.

 

I would never give up using my laptop. It does what my other devices can't do. It's easier to type my thesis and play Guild Wars 2 on my laptop.

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 01:49 PM

49. Self-pronounced geeks have been trying desperately to kill the PC for years

For many home users and almost all businesses, the standard PC/workstation has been and will continue to be the tool of choice.

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 01:51 PM

50. I For One, Agree

When I saw my first iPad I recall telling my wife that this was the future of computing. There was a time that I felt that the integration of the computer to the television was the future. Now I believe it is the tablet.

IMHO, tablets are going to greatly improve over the next five years to include memory expansion and possibly a "projected" keyboard that will appear almost like a hologram on your desk top. I don't think we have seen the full potential of the tablet yet.

Paige

On Edit: I find it amazing that I can hold in the palm of my hand, the totality of human knowledge. Sometimes just that thought is overwhelming. And yet. We have a younger generation that thinks nothing of it.

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Response to WiffenPoof (Reply #50)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 02:24 PM

60. I've seen some off those projected keyboards.

Some of us like real keyboards, with real buttons, and real tactile feedback. Typing on a screen, or on a protected picture of a keyboard on your table just isn't the same.

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 01:51 PM

51. I think it's the "ooooo, shiny!" factor

Pundits want to link themselves to the latest and greatest so they look cutting edge, and PCs are so 1980s - therefore only dinosaurs use them. There are applications for a variety of devices. I'm typing this on my laptop, which is good for reading news and looking up things. When I want to do serious work, especially involving graphics or anything I want a large screen for I use my old PC. I have an iPhone that I use when I'm out and about and just need to quickly look up something. Don't have a tablet because 1) they don't fit well in my purse yet and 2) they're not that much better for using at home than the laptop (does a kindle count as a tablet?). I'm not saying I'll never get one, but right now they don't fill any needs my current collection of electronics does.

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 01:55 PM

53. As a translator, I still need a full-scale (Mac) laptop for

1. Keeping two Word documents in different languages open at once

2. Ease of typing

3. Ability to look up words on the Internet and post and answer e-mail queries during #1

I use an iPad mostly while traveling as a one-stop entertainment and communications center with e-mail, e-books, TV shows, and games, but for translation? Not unless they make a major leap in functionality.

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 01:57 PM

54. My tablet is more expendable than my PC or phone.

I use my PC for hardcore writing, number crunching, moving files, creating big presentations, etc. Not an easy task on anything smaller than a solid laptop.

I have been trying to think if I use my phone exclusively for certain things other than phoning, and, yes, I do. Texting, navigation, music downloads, on and on.

Love all three, but if someone said, "Give one up", it would be the tablet.

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 02:13 PM

57. Of course it's exaggerated

 

The reality is, PCs have become more and more important to our daily lives. In a few years, you might be able to buy a PC compact enough to fit in one's pocket, so that you could take it anywhere.

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 03:02 PM

65. No tablet can do what my pc can do...

Plus, I hate touch screens.

I hope the standard desktop remains well into the future.

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Response to RedCappedBandit (Reply #65)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 04:33 PM

75. Same here, plus I custom build my PCs, run Linux, and no way can a tablet on a

cloud do what I do. Also, PCs are cheap to maintain and run forever without much attention if built up with quality parts. I see lots of need for tablets, but for home/office based computing, I want a PC.


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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #75)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 05:34 PM

93. Exactly.

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 03:08 PM

67. I hope so; I'm on one. I like the "real desk" set-up.

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 03:12 PM

69. Still need a desktop for applications that take a lot of power (gaming for one)

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 03:20 PM

72. They'll

have to pry my desktop from my cold, dead hands.

I prefer it to my laptop because I work from home. I love my 22" widescreen monitor. The laptop is for when the power goes out and then I use it to watch movies.

My Kindle is for reading.

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 03:28 PM

73. Yyyyyyep. In fact, I just bought a new PC this past week. n/t

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 04:47 PM

77. It may appear so to people who are always moving..

from work to home to play date to hanging out to wherever people feel like they HAVE to go...

But for the demographic of a certain age (and our numbers are legion).. a desktop with a nice big screen and a keyboard reminiscent of the old typewriter.. well, it can't be replaced by something we have to balance on our laps and squint at.

The PC will never die.

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Response to annabanana (Reply #77)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 04:55 PM

79. I sit here with a 24' LCD screen, full size KB, a power Tower, I buildup my own PCs to my specs.,

career in IT and R&D, run Linux, no way am I gonna settle for just a tablet and cloud computing. And I'm one of a zillion that think similarly. That said, a tablet is nice for the road ... but home/office, I want my full-sized big PC. And I like to hear the powerful fans whirling away ... I grew up in a server room. LOL


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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #79)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 11:08 AM

130. Yep.

My main system has an 8-core cpu running at 4GHz with 16Gb RAM, 256Gb SSD boot drive, 2 1Tb hard drives running Win7 Pro X64 with a 28 inch monitor. Even with 3 folding apps running in the background, I rarely exceed 25% cpu usage unless I'm doing some major video conversion. Try that on a tablet.

My other computers are running XP Pro, XP Pro X64, Mint 13 XFCE. I keep the different versions of Windoze so that if I get stumped on a customer's machine I can duplicate the problem on one with the same OS

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #130)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 11:26 AM

131. Hard to do on a matchbook sized Tablet, LOL. n/t

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Response to annabanana (Reply #77)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 10:57 AM

129. Plus you're much less likely to step out in front of traffic while playing with the touchscreen

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 04:54 PM

78. I love my Kindle, but am not really interested in having a tablet.

To me, any sort of tablet big enough to be truly usable would be too big to easily carry around... and I really don't need to have the internet at my fingertips every minute of the day. I'd much rather have laptop or desktop with a large screen and keyboard.

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Response to winter is coming (Reply #78)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 05:02 PM

81. Yep!!! I like the tablet for the road, but at home I want my full size desktop with a large screen

which I custom built for myself. It's also cheaper. My current desktop has been running 7x24 for 7 years, just doing upgrades as necessary ... I've gone through a lot of computer stuff over the decades, and IMO a full size desktop is also cheaper over the long haul. I first started working with computers in 1962 with a DEC computer. ... so I've sure got a lot of horsepower with my desktop compared to then! LOL


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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 04:58 PM

80. my dell desktop is still running after 4 years

i do`t like laptops,tabs,or other mobile devices for my computering....

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Response to madrchsod (Reply #80)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 05:10 PM

84. My first PC was a dell in the late 80's. A system 310 Dell desktop and was the

top performer at 20 MHz and 16 MB! We've come a long way!!! I have a Navigator I like, and I do have a Tablet for when traveling and away for awhile. One can keep a desktop running for years, and do all sorts of upgrades, of course, and repairs. There's not much one can do with a Tablet for upgrades or repairs. LOL



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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 05:06 PM

82. I much prefer my PC to my iPad

if I'm going to spend any significant time on the computer. I can't stand the iPad keyboard, the touchiness of the screen and the beyond stupid autocorrect. I feel at home with my PC.

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Response to Blue_In_AK (Reply #82)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 05:17 PM

86. I did a lot of traveling recently and took a Tablet. I don't think there's much quite as

frustrating as trying to type a lot of emails on a Tablet. I do have a KB for it, but it's smaller than a standard one. Was I ever glad to get back to my at home full size desktop.

I do have to admit I liked the smallness of the Tablet for traveling. I used to travel a lot for my job and used to take a large laptop, printer, external drives, etc., etc. in a large carry case on wheels. I sure don't miss lugging that around ... it was super heavy. That and my roller luggage. I used to look like a freight train in the airports carting this stuff along!!! LOL


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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #86)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 05:27 PM

90. I hear ya.

That's how I am with my camera gear. Could I simplify and buy one of those little point-and-shoots? Sure, but it's just not the same.

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #86)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 05:46 PM

95. "The anvil bag" is what I've heard some call their laptop carrying cases,

although laptops are getting thinner and lighter. A full-sized keyboard is the stumbling point for tablets, IMO. Although people certainly love and generally use the extra real estate you get from a bigger screen, it's the cramped keyboards people usually complain about. It's certainly a deal-breaker for me.

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Response to winter is coming (Reply #95)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 06:30 PM

101. "The anvil bag" Yep, that's it!!! Excellent description!!!

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 05:17 PM

87. I prefer my desktop unless i need portability

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #87)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 05:24 PM

88. Yep, exactly the same here! I love my desktop. It's fast, I built it up myself, I maintain it,

Last edited Sat Jan 26, 2013, 06:27 PM - Edit history (1)

run Linux, have a 24" LCD screen, slick keyboard and a great ISP connection and all of that on a Smart UPS. I feel really restricted and limited when I have to use my Tablet.

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #88)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 05:33 PM

91. And gaming on a laptop or tablet is impossible!

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #91)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 10:49 AM

127. I game on my laptop all the time and it works great

My laptop is actually a pretty powerful gaming machine, it can run any game on the market including the newest titles and most of them run well at high or often even max settings. The graphics blow away anything you can get on consoles. I would never want to play with the touchpad, but plug a mouse or a game pad in and my laptop works great for gaming.

The iPad is also capable of suprisingly good graphics, but as a gaming platform it sucks mostly because touch screen controls do not work well for the majority of games. I do think there is lots of potential for tablets to be great gaming devices in the near future as in some ways they already are, but until the iPad provides controller support I will stick with PC and consoles.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #127)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 11:40 AM

132. to small for me

nice to know the newer laptops can handle the games now, I would use one if I was traveling.

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #132)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 12:09 PM

133. You just have to make sure you get a laptop with a dedicated graphics chip

The new laptops with AMD processors are almost always much better for gaming than machines with Intel chips. The reason for this is that Intel has their graphics chip built right into their processor while AMD does not and they need a dedicated graphics chip. What this means is that most laptop manufacturers think that Intel's crappy onboard graphics processing is good enough and they don't include a dedicated graphics chip even on most of the high-end Intel machines. AMD machines on the other hand do need a seperate graphics chip so the manufacturers have to include one, because AMD also produces Radeon graphics chips these are what usually get included and they are capable of some amazing graphics.

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 05:41 PM

94. The Tablet is the "PC" of the Future--Most responses here are focusing on the now...

...which is to say, yes, you're right. At this moment, in the NOW a tablet can't do all a laptop or desktop can do. It can't play the powerful games, it has problems multitasking, etc. etc. etc. And like all such transitional times, it will be a while before desktops and laptops are obsolete.

There are, however, two important points here that indicate tablets will take over and desktops/laptops will go away: (1) Those of you who need that powerhouse desktop are in the minority. Most people doing most jobs don't need all that. What they need is something light, portable, and adaptable. That's the beauty of a tablet: it's a book/magazine/newspaper/television/movie theater/entertainment system--and GPS/mapbook. It's also a day planner with calendars, contacts, messaging, video conferencing and shopping lists. And it can manage a business. I know a coffee business where you're handed the iPad, order from it's menu, and then when you leave you scan your credit card on it and pay. Doctors look at x-rays on tablets, hairstylist manage appointments (with pictures of the haircut for each client). Artists create. That you can turn this *portable* device into what you need it to be at any given time is the genius behind it.

The desktop just isn't that flexible or portable. You can't take it to a lunch meeting and show a client sketches you did on it--and change those sketches on the spot if the client wants changes--and then read a magazine on it at a coffee house, then take it home to watch a movie in bed. You can't hand it to your kids in the car so they can watch cartoons or play a game of scrabble out on the porch. The tablet wins because it can morph into anything the average person needs for almost any aspect of their life pretty much anywhere and everywhere. And don't forget, kids are growing up with these tablets--instead of desktops and laptops. Tablets will be more natural for the next generation than PC's.

(2) Whatever the tablet can't do now that the laptop can--it's gonna be able to do within about five years. Don't believe me? Most laptops now are the equal or better than desktops of five years ago. All your complaints of what the tablets can't do don't say that they'll *never* be able to that. And this is especially true with online storage of information. Desktops and laptops hold a lot of information--but if you don't need information held on the device, if you can access an on-line storage of all that, then, again, the tablet wins.

The only stumbling block for a tablet is the keyboard. A good keyboard that acts as a cover, easily carried along with the portable tablet solves that. We may not be there yet--but the iPad is going on three years old and look at how much it can do now that it couldn't do three years ago. Including word-processing programs. The tablet is the PC of the future, and that future isn't far away. It's less about making desktop and laptops obsolete than being the next evolutionary step.

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Response to Moonwalk (Reply #94)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 08:40 PM

111. I worked in R&D and IT for decades and I think your analysis is right on ... in the positions I

held we were the visionaries for the direction of R&D / IT. It will be a transition, as you say. I think about 5 years from now we'll see a lot ... much as when the laptop came out ... one of the questions / problems we always faced was how big is the optimal laptop. LOL, but what one needs is a Tablet with a stretchy screen ... or a roll out screen and a mat KB ... and not that far fetched in the big picture.

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Response to Moonwalk (Reply #94)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 08:41 PM

112. When the tablet of tomorrow becomes as powerful as the PC of today...

Like I said, the same technology that would enable the tablet of tomorrow to catch up with a PC will at the same time enable the PC of tomorrow that blows it out of the water performance wise.

And you say that people that need the powerhouse are in the minority? Maybe, but they're not especially rare. Top of the list of people who demand lots of horsepower are gamers, and they'll never go away. The game console manufacturers have their price points, don't want to spend the money to develop new consoles very often anymore, and for that reason, the desktop PC, with state-of-the-art hardware, is going to have the horsepower advantage. Go to any Fry's or MicroCenter, and you'll see their homebuild components - lots of motherboards, RAM, CPUs, graphics cards, cases, water-cooling kits (because they overclock!), etc. etc. etc.

And if they're like me, they ALSO use their tablets and portable gadgets. I've found that the tablets get used differently from desktops - you get personal entertainment in the form of games, podcasting, movies, etc., communication in the form of email, facebooking, etc., navigation (there's an app that's ideal for tablet/smartphone devices, and not so useful on a desktop PC), and so on.

But software developers need horsepower - where do they go when they're writing the latest app for the iPad or Android tablets? To the development environment running on a PC, because the PC has the big screen, the big CPU needed for heavy compiling runs, the horsepower to run all the tools. Same for a graphic artist - he's not going to be able to do intricate Photoshop work on his iPad, he's gonna need that high-horsepower PC. Same for the gamer. Same for a lot of people.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #112)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:27 AM

123. Nope. Not going to need a powerhouse PC. All they'll need is a powerhouse computer...

...that the tablet can connect to. I know a lot of computer graphics people. They don't work on high powered PC's. They work on PC's that are connected to high powered computers elsewhere. If tablets can be similarly connected, then desktops will vanish.

And I don't know about you, but I'm seeing all sorts of ways that this could be done. Especially if we can make optical/photonic computing a reality. Then those tablets really could be made as powerful as needed for your high-powered gaming and programing.

Think ahead, think outside the box What you need and want now to play/create cutting edge games may not be what you'll want or need five years from now.

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 06:16 PM

99. Try to play World of Warcraft or Guild Wars II on your IPad........

meh

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 06:40 PM

102. definitely false.

I prefer a full-blown desktop for gaming, movies than watching a tiny screen.

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 07:10 PM

104. A computer that doesn't collect dust

isn't running

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Response to Duer 157099 (Reply #104)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 07:34 PM

105. LOL!!! Mine is a huge vacuum cleaner!!!

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 07:44 PM

106. Funny, I just went through this myself.

I'm starting my master's this spring (hopefully, if I get accepted, etc.), and I knew my old laptop didn't have what I would need for the online program. So, it became an issue of which tool to use. I ended up talking with the IT guy at work and my stepdad (who does a lot of IT for his research program), and I went with an ultrabook. I really like this HP Envy so far--touchscreen, nice keyboard that's easy to type on, not too big so it's easy to use anywhere, etc.

Honestly, e-readers and tablets have their uses, but if you have to create a lot of documents, a laptop is still a better option.

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Response to knitter4democracy (Reply #106)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 07:47 PM

107. Yep!!! n/t

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 07:56 PM

108. We've been talking about this a lot at work. I work for a small IT provider. I think we'll

Last edited Sat Jan 26, 2013, 09:33 PM - Edit history (1)

transition to different machines in different places. Fewer people will have desktops and laptops at home but there is still a need for them in offices. Most businesses don't want their computer systems to be portable for most employees.

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Response to WhollyHeretic (Reply #108)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 08:31 PM

109. Your last sentence is an excellent point!!! n/t

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 08:39 PM

110. Tablets & phones are no substitute for the full service of laptops & desktops.

I doubt I'll ever get a tablet...they seem to be mainly for traveling. Can't see a reason to own one other than that. The tiny phone can't be a substitute for just about anything else (altho some like to pretend it is)...they're too small for one thing. I use my phone to talk on.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #110)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 10:31 AM

124. Yeah, that's what I think too. It's a matter of size. On the road, tablets are nice as are phones.

At home I have my own VOIP setup and wireless phones ... it runs circles around cell phone service, plus with my VOIP provider I can do anything with the phones, and I can patchin the cell phone if I want with Bluetooth. I use a Tablet on the road, but at home I use my built-up custom PC and Linux, 24" screen, etc. I think what will happen is as Tablets get more powerful, maybe just plug in a couple of peripherals at home and then just take the Tablet on the road ... of course many don't even need that. I will sure miss building up my own PCs from scratch if the tower goes away.

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #124)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:49 PM

162. What provider do you use for VOIP? I'm running across more people who are using VOIP.

I'm not confidant in the reliability of it. But people seem to be happy with it these days.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #162)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 09:10 PM

163. I use an OBi110 off my router and then Callcentric as my VOIP provider. A nice

thing about Callcentric is they also have 911 service. I just had to use it and it worked beautifully. I don't have any problems with reliability here. I still have my cell phone for backup for power failures. I run off a UPS, but I for a sustained power outage wouldn't last, of course.

http://www.amazon.com/OBi110-Service-Bridge-Telephone-Adapter/dp/B0045RMEPI

http://www.callcentric.com/

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #163)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:12 PM

165. Thanks. nt

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 08:59 PM

113. To seriously type, I need a real keyboard

Using the one on my smartphone can be so fustrating that I installed a Morse code one that I usually use. It's not that much slower than fighting with Swype or poking (and missing) the letters. And I learn a potentially useful skill.


Tablets and smartphones don't do it for me. I need KEYS. Keys that move up and down and click quietly.

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #113)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 09:10 PM

115. Clever!!! "... that I installed a Morse code one that I usually use."

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #115)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 07:10 PM

166. it's not bad

but it has an error... it doesn't have the open parenthesis code right! so I can't tap.out sad smiles.

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #166)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 07:50 PM

168. Dont worry Be happy, lol

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #113)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 12:36 AM

117. My current smartphone has a hard keyboard.

It's an HTC G2, which has a slide-out keyboard, which I find much easier to type on than any of the on-screen keyboards like Swype or SwiftKey. Though I do have SwiftKey on my phone because the text prediction is handy, even with the hard keyboard.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #117)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 01:15 AM

118. i have a Galaxy S3

My old phone had a slide keyboard that was only ok.

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #118)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:21 PM

147. The Galaxy S3 doesn't sound half bad...

Its screen is bigger than the one on my G2, so that would make typing on the on-screen keyboard a bit easier.

My G2's screen is small enough that I'm always fat-fingering when trying to type on it's screen.

And it's certainly got more CPU and GPU power, and more storage than my phone.

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #113)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 05:23 PM

155. Same here. I can type on full-sized keyboard about as fast as talking.

Anything over a line or two on my phone produces extreme anxiety. And the text prediction produces some embarrassing posts.

I really want to look closely at the Asus Transformer as it seems to cover most bases. But it's likely expensive.

Having lived without computers, I'm just happy with all the options.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #155)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 05:58 PM

158. i can probably type 30 or 40 wpm

Which isn't that bad. But Swype can just be downright fustrating. It often has every word BUT the one I want!

or it will have every tense except the one I want. Or it will have all the right letters except one vowes, with every other vowel combination.

So, morse!

I did this message in morse, btw

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #158)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 06:15 PM

159. I'd try it, but SOS is all I know.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #159)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 07:16 PM

167. hmmmm...

I think I was using the wrong keyboard with Swype. I changed my default keyboard to Swype and it looks and functions differently from the previous one. I might have been using the Android one instead of the Samsung one, or vice versa.

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 01:30 AM

119. The high-end desktop / workstation form-factor is hard to replace

The configurations I'm thinking of involve: Large or dual monitors, ECC RAM, RAID array hard disks and mouse/keyboard input. The line between high-end desktop PCs and workstations has blurred quite a bit over the years (which now routinely have RAID, 64-bit OSes, high-end external GPUs, virtualization capable CPUs and so on). ECC, "enterprise" edition OSes, and dual-sockets are the few remaining distinctions.

In any case, these systems are unlikely to be replaced by tablets or even notebooks.

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Response to entanglement (Reply #119)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 10:47 AM

126. I think for many the Tablet might be the solution they want ... The Tablet with

a cloud.

However, for power users, as you say, "The high-end desktop / workstation form-factor is hard to replace."

I also build up my own systems here, etc., etc. and run Linux, etc. and that I'm not too excited to give up, and I think there are many that think similarly to me. ... but, for many the Tablet with cloud computing will serve their needs. The technology for the high-end desktop / workstation form-factor will just advance.

... plus, my custom built PCs are cheap to maintain. We run 7x24 here and just shutdown for upgrades/repairs. There is no way we're interested in running out and buying new Tablets all of the time to keep up with Tablet technology as opposed to upgrades on the tower.

However, if I look out many years, a lot of this, of course, will change quite a bit. ... probably synapse connections for some. We used to joke about that in R&D, but anymore there are probably quite a few that might want to be wired to the internet, so to say.


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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #126)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 01:42 PM

141. I agree - the tablet will be adequate for many (not all) users

OTOH I've read that there are various issues (related to privacy, ownership, liability, immediacy) that need to be settled before cloud computing becomes pervasive.

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 01:33 AM

120. yes

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 12:41 PM

135. PCs are the most cost-effective

I would enjoy having a tablet so I could carry around internet and email capability everywhere and play silly games. But I wouldn't really view it as more than an expensive toy. But if something breaks on it then it is probably not repairable.

When the video card on my desktop fried a few months ago, I spent $40 bucks and bought a cheapo replacement to get me through. If I ever have money again, I can upgrade to something nicer. Barring a major disaster like fire or lightning, this computer should easily last me 5-7 years, possibly longer. I don't think most tablets will fare as well. I realize that not everyone puts together their own PCs, but nearly anyone could learn how if they really wanted to. You can get a lot more power for the money with a desktop vs. a tablet.

But I guess if all you ever do on your computer is email, web stuff, and play music then a tablet might make sense. I can't imagine any business changing over to tablets though.

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Response to A Little Weird (Reply #135)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 12:59 PM

136. That what I do, I buildup my own PCs to my specs and run Linux. The ones here go 7x24, except for

upgrades and repairs. I do computing dirt cheap. There are always exceptionally good parts available on the market for low prices as they fall from high-end to mid-end as technology moves forward. My present PC has been going about 6 years. I have a Tablet for on the road, but it's always a comedown when I have to use it ... I'm always glad to be back to my PC and its power tower.

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #136)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 01:15 PM

139. Linux

I keep meaning to try Linux, but so far I have been too lazy. I ran a live CD just to see what it looked like and I was impressed. Maybe one of these days when I feel like tinkering, I will give it a shot.

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Response to A Little Weird (Reply #139)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 01:30 PM

140. Ubuntu is great ... so is Linux Mint IMO, based on Ubuntu. I like Linux Mint because I don't

like the Tablet/Phone look of Unity on my PC. I still use Windows XP-SP3 for some things as an application running under Linux. And most other windows things I might need I just use Wine.

http://www.linuxmint.com/

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #140)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:20 PM

146. Right now, I'm running Kubuntu.

I'm with you on Unity - the problem is trying to "unify" tablet interfaces and desktop mouse-based interfaces, and the result is something that sucks for both.

So rather than straight Ubuntu, I'm running Kubuntu - KDE 4.x has really matured in the past couple of years, and it gives me a great desktop.

Lubuntu's another alternative if you want to try something a little more lightweight.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #146)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:29 PM

148. I love KDE. I tried it earlier and it had gotten pretty sucky. I should give it a try again sometime

Yep! Kubuntu is great! Haven't ever tried Lubuntu. Thanks!

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #148)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:33 PM

149. There were difficulties with KDE when they transitioned from 3.0 to 4.0.

When the KDE team moved to 4.0, which involved a rewrite of a great deal of code as they transitioned to a newer version of Qt, they lost much of the little features and functionality that had made KDE 3.x a comfortable desktop. And there were a whole bunch of little bugs and interface glitches that needed to be sorted out.

Now we're at KDE 4.9.4, most of the little features have been re-invented or re-implemented or replaced with cooler things. Most of the glitches have been ironed out, and KDE at this point is again a sharp, comfortable and powerful desktop for Linux.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #149)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:40 PM

150. Thanks for the update! Great to hear !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! n/t

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 01:43 PM

142. I type for a living, often for 10+ hours each day, sometimes much longer

Without a good keyboard and decent screen I'd go nuts. I frequently use my droid for e-mail, though. As a freelancer that's invaluable to me.

The introduction of the book - a.k.a. medieval help desk:


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Response to War Horse (Reply #142)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 01:53 PM

143. Thanks!!!

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:15 PM

145. Here's an interesting article: The PC isn’t ready to die, it’s ready for a rebirth.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/the-pc-isnt-ready-to-die-its-ready-for-a-rebirth/

The PC isn’t ready to die, it’s ready for a rebirth

Desktops sales have slowed because manufacturers have let their designs stagnate, but the need for a comfortable machine you can work on hasn’t gone away. Who will reinvent the PC and reap the rewards?

Every other week, there seems to be story about the PC dying. This week, it was because Intel is planning on exiting the motherboard business. The screwy thing is, I think the exact opposite is about to happen. Not only is the desktop not dead, it’s about to go through a resurgence. We’re just waiting for that visionary vendor who realizes that bigger is still better, and this Lemming-like agreement that the desktop is dead is holding people back. Here’s why.

...

We need a new desktop
Back in the 80s, people speculated that personal computers were about to kill the mainframe. Yet here, 30 years later, it is IBM’s most profitable line. But it isn’t the same mainframe we knew back then, the product had to be updated to address today’s needs. If IBM hadn’t done that, it would have died years ago as predicted.

That will be challenge for desktops. Because of the perception that desktops are dead, few manufacturers are making major efforts to update them. Case design stopped advancing about 10 years ago, and while external skins keep changing, the tower and mini-tower, which form the backbone of this segment, have stagnated. These designs are arguably better than all-in-ones because they are more flexible, they can more easily be updated, and they can address more and different sizes of screens more aggressively. With monitors, bigger is always better, unless you have to carry them.

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Response to RKP5637 (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 06:55 PM

161. Desktops are big clunky boxes

Yes, some people will still continue to use them as long as they can, but I don't see the incentive to manufacture them for the ordinary consumer market in not too many years from now. Gamers will still want them, but they'll go see folks who can put together custom jobs that have plenty of RAM, enhanced video cards, and box modifications for that "cool" look. They won't be sold in Wal-Mart or other such places, as they will be functionally obsolete.

As I sit here, I type this on a 17-inch Dell laptop that is the most powerful computer in the house, I'm about to give my lady my old desktop (she still likes them, but then, she still writes checks to pay her bills) and just make this my desktop replacement unit when I get a tablet. I've already got an Android smartphone, and it's becoming a burden to schlep the laptop on airplane trips.

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