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Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:35 PM

I never knew LBJ was so crass....

I heard this played on The Bill Press Show this week, it is hilarious! I could see GW Bush sounding like this, but I had no idea LBJ was so crass! No way repugs would let Obama live it down if he burped on the recorded Oval Office phone line.

http://whitehousetapes.net/clip/lyndon-johnson-joe-haggar-lbj-orders-some-new-haggar-pants

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Reply I never knew LBJ was so crass.... (Original post)
ceejdre82 Jan 2013 OP
elleng Jan 2013 #1
ceejdre82 Jan 2013 #6
elleng Jan 2013 #8
ceejdre82 Jan 2013 #14
elleng Jan 2013 #17
MADem Jan 2013 #115
elleng Jan 2013 #116
MADem Jan 2013 #118
elleng Jan 2013 #119
MADem Jan 2013 #120
elleng Jan 2013 #125
MADem Jan 2013 #126
elleng Jan 2013 #127
MADem Jan 2013 #133
brush Jan 2013 #33
OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #50
brush Jan 2013 #76
Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #78
panzerfaust Jan 2013 #40
Brother Buzz Jan 2013 #56
Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #52
fujiyama Jan 2013 #92
backscatter712 Jan 2013 #2
oh08dem Jan 2013 #3
brush Jan 2013 #77
Still Sensible Jan 2013 #4
MrSlayer Jan 2013 #5
ceejdre82 Jan 2013 #10
backscatter712 Jan 2013 #13
MrSlayer Jan 2013 #18
Hekate Jan 2013 #59
The Second Stone Jan 2013 #7
fujiyama Jan 2013 #94
Eleanors38 Jan 2013 #9
ceejdre82 Jan 2013 #12
Eleanors38 Jan 2013 #68
EastKYLiberal Jan 2013 #11
leftofcool Jan 2013 #28
Eleanors38 Jan 2013 #69
brush Jan 2013 #80
Hippo_Tron Jan 2013 #106
brush Jan 2013 #122
trackfan Jan 2013 #15
Eleanors38 Jan 2013 #70
another_liberal Jan 2013 #16
oldhippydude Jan 2013 #19
undeterred Jan 2013 #63
Bigmack Jan 2013 #20
graham4anything Jan 2013 #26
tabasco Jan 2013 #42
graham4anything Jan 2013 #43
kskiska Jan 2013 #98
dsc Jan 2013 #21
auntsue Jan 2013 #22
OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #23
no_hypocrisy Jan 2013 #31
SDjack Jan 2013 #34
Paladin Jan 2013 #47
OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #49
Paladin Jan 2013 #62
OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #64
brush Jan 2013 #81
OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #83
brush Jan 2013 #84
OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #88
RainDog Jan 2013 #99
OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #110
RainDog Jan 2013 #132
stultusporcos Jan 2013 #24
ceejdre82 Jan 2013 #53
Eleanors38 Jan 2013 #71
Paladin Jan 2013 #25
WiffenPoof Jan 2013 #27
Historic NY Jan 2013 #29
ceejdre82 Jan 2013 #75
Historic NY Jan 2013 #90
aristocles Jan 2013 #30
ceejdre82 Jan 2013 #54
no_hypocrisy Jan 2013 #32
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OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #107
Le Taz Hot Jan 2013 #111
OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #112
brush Jan 2013 #123
yellowcanine Jan 2013 #35
MADem Jan 2013 #121
yellowcanine Jan 2013 #129
Are_grits_groceries Jan 2013 #36
11 Bravo Jan 2013 #39
Brickbat Jan 2013 #41
Historic NY Jan 2013 #45
MrMickeysMom Jan 2013 #67
sad-cafe Jan 2013 #46
RobertEarl Jan 2013 #48
southernyankeebelle Jan 2013 #51
Hekate Jan 2013 #57
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Boomerproud Jan 2013 #86
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Eleanors38 Jan 2013 #102
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undeterred Jan 2013 #87
Eleanors38 Jan 2013 #103
graham4anything Jan 2013 #79
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ananda Jan 2013 #66
Historic NY Jan 2013 #91
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RainDog Jan 2013 #101
JDPriestly Jan 2013 #104
Trascoli Jan 2013 #113
bluestate10 Jan 2013 #114
MADem Jan 2013 #130
bluestate10 Jan 2013 #131
Ian Iam Jan 2013 #117
northoftheborder Jan 2013 #128

Response to ceejdre82 (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:37 PM

1. I guess you're young!

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Response to elleng (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:45 PM

6. Yeah, he's a bit before my time....

I just turned 30, and the other day it was 40 years since his death. I've been meaning to read the books by Doris Kearns Goodwin, the woman that wrote the book that the majority of Lincoln was based, she also wrote an LBJ and a Kennedy/Fitzgerald book.

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Response to ceejdre82 (Reply #6)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:47 PM

8. Yes, she worked for him.

(She attended my high school.)
Do read her book. He's a GREAT character.

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Response to elleng (Reply #8)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:54 PM

14. I saw her interviewed on TV and also heard her on...

The Bill Press Show... It seems her books would not be your typical, boring bios....I will bump her LBJ to the top of my Nook list!

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Response to ceejdre82 (Reply #14)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:59 PM

17. Good, do that.

Right, her books are NOT typical boring bios, award-winning.

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Response to elleng (Reply #8)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:24 AM

115. The rumor is that she most certainly worked for him...

...and then some. Many sources allege that they were an item for quite a long time. A reasonably discreet item, but an item nonetheless.

LBJ used to get annoyed (really) that JFK had a reputation as a ladies' man. He would boast that he was much more of a 'conquistador' than JFK ever was.




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Response to MADem (Reply #115)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:31 AM

116. Hard to believe, 'knowing' her (just having observed,) but anything's possible.

RObert Caro on C-SPAN2 right now, discussing his Johnson bio: THe Passage of Power:

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Response to elleng (Reply #116)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:57 AM

118. This isn't just idle rumor, Sally Quinn used to snark about it all the time.

Doris was quite a looker in her youth.

It's pretty much one of those open secrets that no one mentions out of old-school decorum. I often wonder if she'll ever rip that band-aid off and tell all.

Caro's books on LBJ are brilliant--real page turners. Don't put 'em in the bathroom library...you'll never get off the pot!

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Response to MADem (Reply #118)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 03:18 AM

119. I don't think much of Sally Quinn,

but we know Doris worked for Johnson. Bugs me to think doing so resulted in 'rumors' such as this. Don't mean to be prudish about this, but how the hell would anyone know? They worked closely together, he appreciated her intellectual talents, they were a 'working pair.'

'In 1967, Kearns went to Washington, D.C., as a White House Fellow during the Lyndon B. Johnson administration. Johnson offered the young intern a job as his assistant, an offer that was not withdrawn even after an article by Kearns appeared in The New Republic laying out a scenario for Johnson's removal from office over his conduct of the war in Vietnam.

After Johnson left office in 1969, Kearns taught government at Harvard for ten years, including a course on the American presidency. During this period she also assisted Johnson in drafting his memoirs. Her first book, Lyndon Johnson and the American Dream, which drew upon her conversations with the late president, was published in 1977.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doris_Kearns_Goodwin

Caro C-SPAN2 segment is over; he received high praise from the audience.

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Response to elleng (Reply #119)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 03:43 AM

120. She (Doris) admits he crawled into bed with her for "interviews." Really.

She denies that anything "went on." And Johnson had a NOTORIOUS reputation--he never met a woman he didn't like. He also wasn't the sort to take no for an answer easily. If I had to place a bet, I'd bet she knew him in the biblical sense.

I remember seeing her on MTP or one of those Sunday talkers after the Petraeus business broke, and she was sort of offering up a pile of "mitigation" for powerful gents who can't keep their block-n-tackle stowed. It kind of made me think she was close to home with her enthusiastic defense of randy leaders.

Of course, we will never know unless she tells.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2012/11/petraeus_and_broadwell_affair_how_many_biographers_have_fallen_for_their.html

Have many biographers had affairs with their subjects?
Not that we know of. Broadwell probably isnít the first biographer to carry on a sexual relationship with a high-profile subject at the height of his or her fame, but she is the first to be caught. Other cases are largely in the realm of rumor and unsubstantiated gossip. The best example is Doris Kearns (now Kearns Goodwin), who spent many hours interviewing Lyndon B. Johnson at his Texas ranch. The author probably didnít help matters by admitting that LBJ liked to climb into her bed for interviews. But she insists that she never joined the former president in bed, and there is no evidence that a romance occurred.


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Response to MADem (Reply #120)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 01:46 PM

125. Oh gee, missed that 'crawled into bed' interview part!

Guess I have a new mental image now!

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Response to elleng (Reply #125)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:16 PM

126. I am not going to 'judge' Doris, or hold her to a standard that wasn't operative at the time

she was working in the WH and for LBJ...the fact of the matter is, this sort of thing went on a lot; I am uncomfortable with the potentially coercive nature of any "imbalanced" relationship, but we're talking about adults well beyond the age of consent, here, in a different time and place, with the "sexual revolution" exploding all around them. Lady Bird was no moron, but I don't think she was into nuanced, deep conversations about the minutiae of political history. Doris was, and she was young and cute, to boot. And LBJ was acutely aware of his place in history, aside from being a horn dog with a wandering eye, and Doris most certainly had and has an historian's mind.

I did think her rather surprisingly robust defense of Paula Broadwell (and I personally think that one has to suspend all judgment to actually believe that affair started AFTER Petraeus packed his uniform away) was, as the Mentalist viewers say, a "Tell."

Of course, if she doesn't want to give us the details, she won't. She might be thinking of his kids and grandkids....sort of like the mysterious Ms. Jennifer Fitzgerald, Poppy Bush's "other woman." Jennifer must be terribly loyal, terribly rich, well kept, or all three. She could make a fortune with one tell-all tome!

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Response to MADem (Reply #126)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:44 PM

127. And she might also be thinking of HER kids and grandkids!

It certainly was a different time and place. I have no interest whatsoever in judging her. She went with the flow (including from the Brooklyn Dodgers to the Bostons!!) I admire her hugely.

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Response to elleng (Reply #127)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:48 PM

133. Valid point entirely!

She's had a fine career, and done some good work.

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Response to ceejdre82 (Reply #6)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 09:12 AM

33. Best books on LBJ

Read the Robert Caro books on Johnson. They are biographical volumes that read like best selling fiction, and they are all true. Johnson, save for being mislead on Vietnam by the generals, was actually one of the better presidents. And when he was a Congressman in the hill country of Texas he fought for and got running water and electrification to the region. No doubt he was ruthless in getting what he wanted and crude to some, but he was actually a genuine populist, as witnessed by his taking up and getting passed all the civil rights legislation that was just being talked about in the Kennedy administration. Just think about the courage it took for him to seat the black Freedom Democratic Party at the 1964 Democratic Convention over the objection of the Dixiecrats. He knew it was the right thing to do even if he was a white "Southerner", if you call Texas a southern state. He knew how to kick ass and get things done from his days as Senate Majority Leader, including his major Great Society accomplishments of Medicare, Medicaid, Head Start, Job Corp, National Endowment for the Arts, Social Security funding adjustments, and many others, second only to FDR by the way. We need that kick ass quality now in the Senate and the White House.

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Response to brush (Reply #33)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 01:40 PM

50. Just my personal opinion, but LBJ pushed the 1964 Civil Rights Bill because he knew....

...that he intended to escalate the war in Vietnam and he needed Black support at home to make that happen with the least amount of civil unrest in black communities.

LBJ never did anything without calculating his own political and personal gain.

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #50)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 05:32 PM

76. Possible but . . .

. . . it was still a courageous and righteous thing to do (civil rights legislation) because Johnson knew he was going to lose southern Dixiecrats, and even said so. He was right. They left the Democratic Party and wound up in the repug party, which is where they remain today. Besides many blacks back then, not all mind you, considered themselves patriotic and did their duty and served in or supported the war effort.

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Response to brush (Reply #33)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 05:40 PM

78. Absolutely...

I didn't think Caro would live long enough to produce volume 4...now I worry about volume 5...

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Response to ceejdre82 (Reply #6)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 11:44 AM

40. "I'd rather have him inside the tent pissing out, than outside pissing in." LBJ on Hoover. Crass?

 



LBJ showing off his fresh gallbladder surgical incision at a press conference.

True, he was the quintessential machine politician, but LBJ was possibly the last of our presidents to actually have the courage to openly express, and then stand by his convictions.


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Response to panzerfaust (Reply #40)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 02:48 PM

56. This cartoon is probably better remembered

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Response to ceejdre82 (Reply #6)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 01:44 PM

52. Robert Caro is working on Volume 5 of an incredible biography of LBJ...

I've read the first 3 and own #4...it's in my stack of "to be read" books. Burping was nothig. LBJ would go to take a dump and make whomever he was with, follow him into the can.

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Response to ceejdre82 (Reply #6)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 07:23 PM

92. If you found this conversation amusing

check out the Caro books. They're about as comprehensive as they can get when it comes to biographies. Caro's writing is incredibly engaging. He has one more left.

They're the ultimate political geek books.




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Response to ceejdre82 (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:40 PM

2. IIRC, he dragged people into the bathroom with him...

and continued wheeling and dealing and having policy discussions and such while he was doing his business on the throne.

And of course, if he was having trouble getting cooperation from a member of Congress, he had the Treatment...

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Response to ceejdre82 (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:40 PM

3. If Johnson had to work with people like Rand Paul ....

The meme would be: "Johnson and his jack-booted government thugs are declaring a war on skinny jeans... Oh the tyranny!"

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Response to oh08dem (Reply #3)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 05:37 PM

77. Johnson would not be cowed by Rand Paul

He'd have Paul afraid to open his mouth. He treat him much worst than Biden did Ryan.

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Response to ceejdre82 (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:42 PM

4. It was not a big secret when he was in office

and fairly common knowledge as books and magazine stories came out in the early 70s.

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Response to ceejdre82 (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:44 PM

5. Yes, all the talk of bungholes and nutsacks is unbecoming.

 

Especially to strangers. Gives you the impression that he was a bit of a Neanderthal.

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Response to MrSlayer (Reply #5)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:48 PM

10. I think the big beltch is great too!

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Response to MrSlayer (Reply #5)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:54 PM

13. It's one of the ways he let you know he was in charge.

When you're President, you get to do a lot of things...

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #13)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:59 PM

18. You'd think the President would have more dignity.

 

Or at least some semblance of couth.

That's just foul behavior.

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Response to MrSlayer (Reply #18)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 03:15 PM

59. LBJ was earthy, as the saying is. He mostly behaved himself in public, though.

Read up a little on the man. He was one of the last pols we will ever have that was not polished and blow-dried and Ivy-Leagued to the point you didn't know who he really was. (Think John Edwards.)

LBJ was a country boy from Texas (a real one, not a fake like Dubya), and he never let you forget it. Oh yes indeed he was crass, and he had a monstrous ego. But he got great things done. He made terrible mistakes, such as listening to the generals on VietNam, but never forget that he also did great things.

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Response to ceejdre82 (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:45 PM

7. Johnson loved to make his aides squirm with his

supposed "earthiness". Particularly the RFK when he worked for Johnson in the Senate.

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Response to The Second Stone (Reply #7)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 07:30 PM

94. The JBK-RFK rivalry is one of the greatest American political rivalries

The last Caro book did a good job on giving insight into the whole thing. I think there's an entire book on the rivalry. I'll have to check it out sometime.

Caro is such a great author. I'm hoping he will be in good health. Can't wait for the next book.

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Response to ceejdre82 (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:48 PM

9. LBJ didn't care 'bout no -- BRUPP! -- stinkin' republicans.

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #9)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:52 PM

12. I am sure he had noises coming out his 'bunghole' too!

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Response to ceejdre82 (Reply #12)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 04:40 PM

68. He was a two-toned Democrat!

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Response to ceejdre82 (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:49 PM

11. LBJ... one hell of a man.

 

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Response to EastKYLiberal (Reply #11)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 07:11 AM

28. Really?

Are we talking about the same LBJ that dragged us into Vietnam?

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Response to leftofcool (Reply #28)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 04:46 PM

69. Yep. It was disastrous. But we also got...

1964 Civil Rights Act, de-segregating public accomodations;

1965 Voting Rights Act, resulting in millions of formerly-disenfranchised voters being registered;

Medicare;

Medicaid;

Head Start, Job Corps, and other sometimes effective social programs.

Not to diminish his responsibility, but Vietnam was a continuation of foreign policy set before he took office (the Achilles heal of Cold War Liberalism). He was the last of the solid liberal presidents, IMO.

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Response to leftofcool (Reply #28)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 05:50 PM

80. Quiet as it's kept . . .

We got into Vietnam during the Kennedy administration, maybe even before that. We were already in when Johnson took over. His mistake was listening to Robert McNamara and Gen. Westmoreland about Vietnam. They kept telling him we were winning.

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Response to brush (Reply #80)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 01:09 AM

106. We had a presence since the Eisenhower administration, but Johnson substantially escalated the war

At the end of the day it was the actions of Johnson and Nixon that resulted in 50,000 dead Americans in that war. Kennedy may very well have done the same damn thing if he'd lived, but that doesn't make Johnson's actions any better..

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Response to Hippo_Tron (Reply #106)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 06:58 AM

122. True

Johnson did get horrible advice though from McNamara and Gen. Westmoreland's assessments were piss poor.

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Response to ceejdre82 (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:56 PM

15. "It's like riding a wire fence"

Ouch.

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Response to trackfan (Reply #15)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 04:49 PM

70. When LBJ asked what it was like having to leave politics, he answered...

I feel like the tom cat making love to the skunk: "I've enjoyed about as much of this as I can stand."

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Response to ceejdre82 (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:58 PM

16. Here's a bit of doggerel attributed to Lyndon Johnson.

Here is a bit of doggerel that has been attributed to President Lyndon Johnson:

"Men worry about heart attacks
Women worry about cancer of the tit
Everyone worries about war and peace
All else is chicken shit."

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Response to ceejdre82 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:12 AM

19. remember when he picked up his beagle by the ears.....

just sayin... the press had a field day with that one...

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Response to oldhippydude (Reply #19)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 03:28 PM

63. Yeah, I remember that too.

People today would be even more freaked out.

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Response to ceejdre82 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:15 AM

20. He hated John.. and all of the Kennedys...

Said about John... "He couldn't pour piss out of a boot with the instructions printed on the bottom."

"Grab 'em by the balls and their hearts and minds will follow."

Somebody on this thread said he was uncouth. I prefer to think of him as earthy.

Fucker sent me to Vietnam, so I hated him.

He could tell the Republicans to go pound sand, so I loved him.

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Response to Bigmack (Reply #20)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 07:04 AM

26. LBJ did what the Kennedy's talked about, but NEVER did or were going to do-Civil rights

 

eisenhower started the war
JFK escalated what Eisenhower started
JFK hired Bob McNamara, therefore JFK would have done 100% what LBJ did in Vietnam

Very easy to admire someone who died young and did not actually have to have a long record of accomplishment

but know one thing, 100% truth

JFK and RFK wiretapped Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

Americans were idiots to sell LBJ down the river in 1968, because LBJ would have beaten Richard Nixon.
and bobby would have then run in 1972.
Again, very easy to love JFK and RFK because they were symbols.

LBJ did what others only dreamed of.
Without Lincoln and FDR and LBJ there would be NO President Barack Obama.

and JFK knew Bobby wanted to be President.
In what realistic world do you think JFK would have spent his capital and Bobby's political future going after something so hard, so impossible, just with the George Wallace democratic section itself?
He wouldn't have done it.

It is why Ted Kennedy is actually the best Kennedy there was.
He stuck around for 40 years in the Senate.

LBJ might have been tough and to some unpleasant, but he knew how to get things done.
WIsh President Obama had an LBJ in the senate, but Teddy died, and other senior senators seem to want other jobs and not be senator or are just weak themselves.
Maybe Elizabeth Warren can become the new LBJ.

But I myself wish he ran in 1968, and beat Nixon.
Which would have meant
NO Ronald Reagan
NO Gerald Ford
NO George Bush41
NO George Bush43
NO Jeb Bush running in 2016 to be 45.

LBJ was the man! He would be on the side of President Obama today.
All the way with LBJ!



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Response to graham4anything (Reply #26)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 11:50 AM

42. LBJ was a stupid douchebag

but still a million times better than a fucking nutbag republican.

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Response to tabasco (Reply #42)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:19 PM

43. and he was a better President and man than Thomas Jefferson was. By far.

 

it matters little what one thinks personally of any president

W won by lying to people that he was a helleva nice guy they could have a b-b-q and drink beer with. Total lie. He never is with common folk.

LBJ was a man of the people who some didn't like.

So?

Jefferson was a low class slob that kept slaves and abused the female slaves, while writing
laws that only those like him were created equal (men) and not women and not blacks and not slaves.

Me, I would rather spend five minutes with LBJ than a lifetime with Thomas Jefferson.

yet people loved Lance Armstrong and John Edwards because they batted their eyes and hoodwinked everyone they ever talked to or were friends with or in relationships with.

People said Jimmy Carter could be arrogant too.
Hell yeah, he could, as he was, indeed the smartest person in the room who most always knew what he was talking about.
Unfortunately not the best at the game of politics itself.
which is why I rank LBJ #3, Obama #4, and Carter #5.

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Response to Bigmack (Reply #20)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 08:25 PM

98. The Kennedys sidelined LBJ after the election

I'm old and I remember it being asked, "Whatever happened to Lyndon Johnson?" He was just about invisible throughout the entire Kennedy administration.

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Response to ceejdre82 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:15 AM

21. and remember he followed Kennedy

who was pretty much the complete opposite.

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Response to ceejdre82 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:41 AM

22. that is SOME ego

to record every trivial comversation "for posterity". Yikes !

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Response to ceejdre82 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:52 AM

23. Read the 1964 book entitled, "A Texan Looks at Lyndon", by J. Evetts Haley....

...if you want to know what LBJ was really like. He was a ruthless mean-spirited individual who stopped at nothing to get what he wanted.

Here's a review I found for this book at Amazon:

Growing up in Texas, I found this book to be alarmingly accurate. Living in Jim Wells County, I found this book to be no less than the absolute truth. I knew most of the people mentioned, or their children (who of course were not only grown, but certainly more than adults) Mr. J. Evetts Haley and his family were banished from Texas, his book banned and illegal to own. Some things were not spoken of in Texas, but Mr. Haley told it all. (or most all) It is a shame that no one else picked up where Mr. Haley left off. But there has never been a more honest, forthright, or honestly correct book written about any of our politicians. I found no discrepancies in names, dates, times or events in this book. I perhaps saw just a bit more evidence than he did, or perhaps, he chose not to mention all that he had seen, but after reading the book, I rather doubt that he hid anything that he knew. This book will be passed down to my children and hopefully to their children until the entire truth will be found.

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #23)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 08:19 AM

31. Thank you. Just placed my order for that book on Amazon based on your post.

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #23)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 09:30 AM

34. Also see the book "Wheeling and Dealing" by Bobbie Baker,

available through Amazon.com. It shows how LBJ became extraordinary rich having only worked one non-political job -- a school teacher in Texas. Baker served as LBJ's bag man, receiving millions dollars in cash delivered to the Senate in brief cases from such groups milk cooperatives and trucking associations. He used his wealth to purchase the newspaper and radio station in Austin. The only papers in Texas who would publish any criticism of him were the Houston and Dallas city newspapers and the University of Texas student newspaper. Small businesses learned painful lessons from LBJ. He would appear in their stores, select items, and instruct the owners to send him bills, which were then ignored. No one had the courage to pursue collection. And, let's not forget his running buddy in getting payoffs: Sen. Kerr of Oklahoma.

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #23)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:35 PM

47. Just Keep In Mind That Haley's Book Was A Right-Wing Hatchet Job.


I'm not a great fan of LBJ (as my other post on this thread indicates), but Haley was a hyper-conservative sensationalist, and his book is filled with baseless speculation. Lyndon Johnson had plenty of flaws, and those flaws have been detailed in a lot of respectable books. No need to buy into Haley's little get-rich-quick, Drudge-level effort.

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Response to Paladin (Reply #47)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 01:31 PM

49. If you can point out a few Haley's facts they you believe are fabrications,....

...I'll take your comments under advisement. Too many other sources have hinted at, or outright accused LBJ of many of the same things Haley does, and they're not right-wingers. For instance:

Joachim Joesten argued in his book, The Dark Side of Lyndon Baines Johnson (1968) that Haley's book, A Texan Looks at Lyndon is an important source of information on Lyndon B. Johnson: "Haley's book may not be a masterpiece in the strictly scholarly sense, and it is certainly not a bible of my political creed, but as source material it is invaluable. For the author is not only a fellow-countryman of Lyndon B. Johnson, but an insider of Texas politics and an old political pro in his own right... That this biography of Lyndon B. Johnson is coloured to a considerable extent by bitterness at his own failure in the political game, as well as by an ingrained dislike of the Rooseveltian tradition (which, alas, also produced LBJ) and a generally ultra-conservative stance, I do not doubt. Still, even after making generous allowance for possible exaggeration due to these factors, there remains in his book so much well-documented fact that it cannot possibly be bypassed by anyone seeking enlightenment about the dark recesses of the Johnson story."

Don't forget that LBJ represented the Southern, and conservative, branch of the Democratic Party. Many of his personal and professional friends in the Democratic Party, like John Connally, would later switch to the GOP. Haley was undoubtedly an ultra-conservative to the right of LBJ, but he was also a member of the Democratic Party.

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #49)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 03:25 PM

62. If Joachim Joesten Is Your Idea Of A Creditable Source.....


...then you have more problematic issues than I have the time or inclination to address. Best wishes to you, out there in Conspiracyville.....

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Response to Paladin (Reply #62)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 04:02 PM

64. Ah! Now we get to the true point of your angst! Good luck to you as well in a world...

...where conspiracies never exist and whatever the US Government tells you is the unabridged, unadulterated truth.



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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #23)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 05:54 PM

81. Read Robert Caro's books on Johnson not that right wing hatchet job. nt

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Response to brush (Reply #81)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 06:04 PM

83. Disagree 100% on "right wing hatchet job". See my earlier responses in this thread....

...You do know Haley was a very conservative Democrat, don't you? Admittedly to the right of LBJ, but LBJ was a conservative Democrat, too.

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #83)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 06:12 PM

84. Johnson might have started out a conservative dem . . .

But he sure passed a lot of Great Society social programs that we are still benefiting from today (second only to FDR). And that's not to mention all the civil rights legislation he got passed. Some conservative all right.

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Response to brush (Reply #84)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 06:48 PM

88. LBJ never pushed legislation unless he could personally or politically benefit from doing so.....

....LBJ's support, and signing, of the 1964 Civil Rights Act is a case in point. He knew he was going to escalate US involvement in Vietnam and he needed the support of African-Americans for the war.

National Security Action Memorandum 263

This NSAM ordered the withdrawal of 1000 American troops by the end of 1963 as part of his overall plan to withdraw the US from Vietnam during his second term.

National Security Action Memorandum 273

This NSAM was signed on November 26, 1963, four days after JFK was murdered in Dallas. NSAM 273 reversed the actions of JFK's NSAM 263 noted above.

Civil Rights Act of 1964

This legislation was enacted on July 2, 1964.

Johnson's Escalation of Vietnam - A Timeline

In November 1964, there were 15,000 US troops in Vietnam. By the end of 1965, there were 184,000 US troops.

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #23)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 08:32 PM

99. Haley was a John Birch Society member

I have a first edition of this book. The guy who wrote it was right in there with other right wingers who were threatening Kennedy with assassination.

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Response to RainDog (Reply #99)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 01:21 AM

110. What can I say? Can you refute any of the facts in his book? nt.

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #110)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:40 PM

132. His book was full of conjecture

You may want to call that fact. I don't.

There's so much John Bircher b.s. I don't understand how you can defend this guy. Mixing fact and outright conspiracy lies is one way to work it, and that's what this guy did. He's not a neutral observer. His book was intended as a hit piece on Johnson during that era.

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Response to ceejdre82 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 06:17 AM

24. Howard Stern has been playing that phone call for years now on his show and goofing on it

 



Bill Press needs to stop STEALING other people work on the radio

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Response to stultusporcos (Reply #24)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 02:31 PM

53. He played it on Tuesday, 40 yrs since LBJ's death....

It wasn't to steal anything.

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Response to ceejdre82 (Reply #53)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 04:52 PM

71. o-o-o-o, Howard. So cutting edge, with a 40 yr old tape of LBJ's windage.

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Response to ceejdre82 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 06:51 AM

25. LBJ Accomplished Some Good Things. Personally, He Could Be A Real Prick.


I know what I'm talking about: I grew up in Austin, and my father worked in government. Every year, my sister and I received the same pre-school year lecture: Never, ever say anything negative about LBJ, because it might get back to him, and my dad's job would be history. For years, LBJ saw to it that Austin was the largest community in the U.S. with only one TV station---said station being owned by Lady Bird Johnson's family. If you wanted anything beyond channel 7's weird patchwork of network shows in the evening, you had to buy a roof antenna to bring in channels 4, 5 and 12 from San Antonio. To this day, there's not a lot of positive sentiment about LBJ in central Texas.

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Response to ceejdre82 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 07:07 AM

27. On Top Of All That...

...he was a ruthless politician and was known for his less than honest tactics early in his career.

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Response to ceejdre82 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 07:13 AM

29. If they only had..



LBJ would be happy.

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Response to Historic NY (Reply #29)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 05:29 PM

75. I bet those don't feel like sitting on a wire fence!

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Response to ceejdre82 (Reply #75)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 07:15 PM

90. Its called breathing room.....

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Response to ceejdre82 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 07:20 AM

30. Yes, he was crass...but so was Churchill, and Einstein

 

Read Doris Kearns Goodwin, "Lyndon Johnson and the American Dream".

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Response to aristocles (Reply #30)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 02:33 PM

54. I posted earlier that it is on my list

I love her!

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Response to ceejdre82 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 08:24 AM

32. Hard to believe he was a teacher before he became a politician.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Reply #32)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 10:03 AM

37. He was a very good teacher.

His first job out of college was in a small town near the Mexico/USBorder. A lot of his students were either illegal and they all were very poor.

LBJ refused to accept crap work from them. He told them they could do the work and through force of his will he got them to try. He would help them, but he did not take excuses.

He grew up in poverty too. That's why he tried to pass the programs he did and why he worked with those kids.

In addition, if he hadn't been ruthless and knew how the system worked, lawd only knows when the Hill Country of Texas and other areas would have gotten electricity.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Reply #37)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 10:13 AM

38. He sounds like the type of asshole

Who used to be allowed to make our lives miserable.

But nowadays, white men don't have quite as many privileges. Too bad for them.

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Response to treestar (Reply #38)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:23 PM

44. What are you talking about?

Try reading what some of his former students had to say. They appreciated his work a great deal. They mattered to him, and that made them feel like they counted.
He deserves shite for a lot of things, but not for this part of his life.

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Response to treestar (Reply #38)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 06:01 PM

82. Read some history . . .

or something because you sound like you don't know what you're talking about. Johnson may have been crude and ruthless but he was responsible for many great programs that benefited and still benefit the average joe, like medicare, medicaid, job corp, national endowment for the arts, historic civil rights and voting rights legislation, and on and on. Try reading Robert Caro's books on Johnson and you'll be more informed.

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Response to brush (Reply #82)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 07:11 PM

89. Maybe you should read more books about LBJ other than those intended to cast LBJ....

...in the best possible light. You might find yourself better informed by doing so.

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #89)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 07:58 PM

96. Why Don't You Give It A Fucking Rest?


Your LBJ-slagging agenda is very evident and very tiresome. LBJ's considerable shortcomings are delineated in a lot more respectable books than the sensationalist crap you're peddling as serious studies, here. Enough.

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Response to Paladin (Reply #96)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 01:19 AM

109. I've noticed that when some posters get backed into a corner, or can't respond with....

...anything factual to refute another poster's arguments, they tend to resort to foul language and insulting comments.

Have you ever noticed anyone doing that? Hmmmm....

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #89)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 08:12 PM

97. Yeah, whatever . . .

You can bitch and moan all you want but the man created more beneficial social programs than any repug, and all dems in the 20th century save FDR. And then there's all the civil rights legislation as well.

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Response to brush (Reply #97)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 01:15 AM

108. Read my previous posts in this thread. nt.

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #89)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 01:02 AM

105. Really??

I have read Caro's and Goodwin's books among others. They are meticulously researched and sourced.
Neither tries to hide his negative qualities and actions. You need to quit sitting on one side while throwing stones at the other.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Reply #105)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 01:14 AM

107. You need to stop telling other people what to do. nt.

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #107)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 01:37 AM

111. Ah, the irony.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #111)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 01:44 AM

112. Clever. Got anything else to say that's REALLY intelligent? nt.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #111)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:23 AM

123. Right! (Pot, meet Kettle.) Hee hee. nt

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Response to ceejdre82 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 09:53 AM

35. He used to hold "meetings" with staffers while he was sitting on the crapper.

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Response to yellowcanine (Reply #35)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 05:19 AM

121. He probably had insufficient roughage in his diet--a bit more might have helped his heart, too.

More oatmeal, fewer eggs!

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Response to MADem (Reply #121)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 03:28 PM

129. Likely was a meat and potatoes guy like other Texans of his time.

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Response to ceejdre82 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 09:55 AM

36. Crass yes. But if the GOPeas

had gone after him, he would have left behind a lot of bones. He was ruthless and knew how to work the DC system. They would have messed with him at their peril.

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Response to ceejdre82 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 10:14 AM

39. He once told the press corps, "I've got to go now boys. I need to remind Hubert (VP Humphrey) ...

that I've got his balls in my pocket."

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Response to ceejdre82 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 11:46 AM

41. This animation that goes with the call is HILARIOUS.

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Response to Brickbat (Reply #41)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:25 PM

45. Everytime I hear this I think of Cousin Eddie and his polyester pants...

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Response to Brickbat (Reply #41)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 04:33 PM

67. Sweet....

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Response to ceejdre82 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:27 PM

46. he said and did what he wanted

 

he really didn't care what others thought

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Response to ceejdre82 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:47 PM

48. LBJ would be banned from DU

If he were alive today, he'd probably not get past 50 posts.

And that gives you a clue as to why this country has such problems. We kill our prophets and anyone else who makes us uneasy.

Being oh so PC has made us into a mediocre bunch that will not make progress. Wars, pollution, climate change, guns everywhere and a society that whitewashes all the other problems is not sustainable.

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Response to ceejdre82 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 01:43 PM

51. Yes he was I read once he even had talks with people while in was sitting on the toilet.

 

I guess thats taking on the job to another whole level. LOL

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Response to southernyankeebelle (Reply #51)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 02:56 PM

57. Same here. Some said how unutterably low-class, but one historian pointed out that kings...

...(and I think he referenced one of the French Louis') had no qualms about doing the same. While the ick factor is the same to you and me, historical precedent is actually there....

That piece of trivia struck me. In America, we are far less casual about our bodily functions than people of any class used to be some centuries ago. Hard to know with LBJ -- a combination of ego and agricultural origins? Who the heck knows.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #57)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 03:00 PM

58. Did he grow up on a farm, do you know? He might have grown up with out houses and

 

used Sears catalog for toilet paper.

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Response to southernyankeebelle (Reply #58)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 03:20 PM

60. I don't know that much about their economic circumstances

Others here will surely know more. References to "the Pedernales" always seem to imply deep country.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #60)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 04:14 PM

65. I googled him. LBJ Bio. Lots of interesting stuff.

 

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Response to Hekate (Reply #60)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 04:53 PM

72. He Had A Humble, Rural Upbringing. (nt)

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Response to southernyankeebelle (Reply #58)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 06:43 PM

86. According to the Robert Caro books

his family had a lot of land (though not wealthy) and his father made many risky financial deals that cost the family their land and LBJ always swore that he'd never end up like his father. I'm sure that the fall that his family endured was at the root of his lifelong insecurity.

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Response to Boomerproud (Reply #86)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 07:51 PM

95. Well he sure made a difference with his life.

 

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Response to southernyankeebelle (Reply #51)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 04:54 PM

73. He just multi-tasking.

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #73)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 04:56 PM

74. LOL, your right. He sure didn't let any grass grow under his feet.

 

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Response to southernyankeebelle (Reply #74)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 10:11 PM

102. I think most of the bad history re LBJ is the "elite" revulsion to rural/Southern habits.

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #102)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:52 AM

124. I got news for you that is a world wide attitude. Rural farm areas have terrible attitudes about

 

city people and the city people see rural farmers the same way. I know living in Italy with relatives I've seen it within my own family. Both sides don't really understand each other. It is very sad because both sides have good thing about them.

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #73)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 06:45 PM

87. Like Bill Clinton did.

This is a Democratic website, so I'll assume I don't need to elaborate.

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Response to undeterred (Reply #87)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 10:13 PM

103. Any drunk/stoned blowhole knows full well. So there.rT

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Response to southernyankeebelle (Reply #51)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 05:42 PM

79. He was a visionary ahead of his time...because

 

often in public places, when sitting, I hear someone in one of the other stalls talking and talking
sometimes even doing work
or saying they are in an important meeting (that is when I myself flush an extra time right then and there LOL)

they didn't have cell phones back then
but come on now-

who hasn't at one point or another gotten a call or returned a call or texted or something
while ...

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #79)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 06:30 PM

85. You are pretty funnyyuyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

 

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Response to ceejdre82 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 02:42 PM

55. "Don't spit in the soup. We all got to eat."

From Quotations from Chairman LBJ, a little red book of true but funny quotes from LBJ, who was one of our great presidents. In format it was a satire of Quotations from Chairman Mao, which was a runaway best seller in China at the time.

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Response to ceejdre82 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 03:22 PM

61. Ten years later, to the day, Nixon resigned from the Presidency

Yet the role of Johnson's pants in that resignation remains untold to this very day.

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Response to ceejdre82 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 04:17 PM

66. I remember the time he showed his gallbladder scar.

He was just that crass. But he was also personable and had a big heart.

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Response to ananda (Reply #66)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 07:17 PM

91. Folksy....might be the best description...

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Response to ceejdre82 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 07:27 PM

93. So? He saved millions from poverty

I can forgive some burping. What I can't forgive is lying the country into war and killing millions, like war criminals Bush/Cheney did.

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Response to Zoeisright (Reply #93)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 08:34 PM

100. Exactly they forget Uncle Eddie...

http://www.salon.com/2011/04/20/odd_actor_choices_for_president/slide_show/

Seriously nobody crossed LBJ, unfortunately for all his faults he put the county first in most of his deeds. In the end Vietnam ate him up and killed him say what you will.




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Response to ceejdre82 (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 08:38 PM

101. LBJ provides a good antidote to fairy tales

He, like every other adult who has a position of power, had a complicated life. If not for the Vietnam War, he would no doubt be lauded as one of the greatest American presidents ever.

But there's that imperial war... that is a boondoggle to every American president b/c our greatest export is military might/hardware around the world... to protect the nation, so the thinking goes, and went. We spend more than every other nation combined on war. It's a huge source of jobs for the economy and one of the few that right wingers don't dare to criticize. That's the nature of the imperial beast.

You'd be hard pressed to find any American President that did not side with pro-military mindsets because of the fear of appearing to fail to defend the nation.

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Response to ceejdre82 (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 12:54 AM

104. You didn't???

He was a country boy, and not just at heart. But he signed Civil Rights bills and brought in Medicare. He really cared about people. Who cares if he was crass?

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Response to ceejdre82 (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 01:45 AM

113. He wants 3+ inches

 

is that correct?

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Response to ceejdre82 (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:05 AM

114. I am not crass, but there have been times when I have let out an uncontrollable

burp. They happen,I apologize and move on.

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Response to bluestate10 (Reply #114)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 03:29 PM

130. Hell, who among us hasn't done a little "crop dusting" as well?

The body does what the body needs to do! We can cover our mouth, we can wear charcoal lined drawers and take beano, but even at that, stuff happens!

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Response to MADem (Reply #130)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 03:41 PM

131. Exactly. We can control some things with diet. I have been in meetings after having a salad or

healthy sandwich for lunch, take one sip of a cola and a few minutes later have an un-controlled burp come barreling out.

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Response to ceejdre82 (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:55 AM

117. Really?

 

Mr Johnson never struck me as a sophisticate (which commends him rather well).

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Response to ceejdre82 (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:50 PM

128. LBJ was a complicated man; the best and most thorough biography of him is Caro's.

He accomplished some great things for this nation, failed in others, was country, unpolished and uncouth, but had a great compassion for people.

Edit for another factoid: Their family wealth came from Ladybird's family.

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