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Fri Jan 25, 2013, 07:07 AM

What is the role of liberals and progressives in the Democratic Party?

As some would suggest, they are there only to impede progress and liberal ideas. The Democratic Party would be much better off without them. Or if they want to be part of the Party, they should just sit down and shut the fuck up. Let the adults, the chess players, do what needs to be done. The Jerry Brown and Ralph Nader supporters should find a new Party. They are not welcome and we don't need them.

It seems all they are capable of doing is criticizing what the present leadership does or doesn't do. All they really need to do is just vote in the next election and bring all their friends along, so we don't get the fascists back in power. Their job is simple enough. The powers that be are not going to change. The money changers are in control of the temple and there is nothing we can do about it. So get used to it. Stop rocking the boat.

The way to win elections is to appeal to the middle ground. Everybody knows that. So why don't you liberals get on board? We don't need your advice. We know how to win elections without you.

55 replies, 2666 views

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Arrow 55 replies Author Time Post
Reply What is the role of liberals and progressives in the Democratic Party? (Original post)
kentuck Jan 2013 OP
KG Jan 2013 #1
xchrom Jan 2013 #4
hobbit709 Jan 2013 #6
Myrina Jan 2013 #22
peace frog Jan 2013 #24
KarenS Jan 2013 #29
leftstreet Jan 2013 #32
Plucketeer Jan 2013 #33
bvar22 Jan 2013 #47
Atman Jan 2013 #2
kentuck Jan 2013 #3
graham4anything Jan 2013 #5
kentuck Jan 2013 #8
MrSlayer Jan 2013 #7
JoePhilly Jan 2013 #9
kentuck Jan 2013 #11
JoePhilly Jan 2013 #14
Enrique Jan 2013 #17
JoePhilly Jan 2013 #19
Fumesucker Jan 2013 #10
cali Jan 2013 #12
kentuck Jan 2013 #13
Myrina Jan 2013 #23
KittyWampus Jan 2013 #28
A Simple Game Jan 2013 #50
datasuspect Jan 2013 #52
Romulox Jan 2013 #26
democrank Jan 2013 #15
fadedrose Jan 2013 #49
Blue_Tires Jan 2013 #55
leveymg Jan 2013 #16
Scootaloo Jan 2013 #18
quinnox Jan 2013 #20
JoePhilly Jan 2013 #31
geomon666 Jan 2013 #36
JoePhilly Jan 2013 #42
pampango Jan 2013 #21
Romulox Jan 2013 #27
pampango Jan 2013 #37
Romulox Jan 2013 #38
pampango Jan 2013 #39
Romulox Jan 2013 #40
pampango Jan 2013 #44
Romulox Jan 2013 #48
pampango Jan 2013 #53
reteachinwi Jan 2013 #25
33Greeper Jan 2013 #30
leftstreet Jan 2013 #34
ReRe Jan 2013 #35
woo me with science Jan 2013 #41
Chan790 Jan 2013 #43
msanthrope Jan 2013 #45
Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2013 #46
datasuspect Jan 2013 #51
stonecutter357 Jan 2013 #54

Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 07:10 AM

1. vote, then shut up and let the serious people get on with the bipartisanship.

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Response to KG (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 07:21 AM

4. +1

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Response to KG (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 07:27 AM

6. Another +1

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Response to KG (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 09:26 AM

22. LOL, that was my thought exactly!

Would be funny if it wasn't so fucking irritating.

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Response to KG (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 09:49 AM

24. And to provide comic relief for the elites

on both sides of the aisle.

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Response to KG (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 09:59 AM

29. +1 plus let those serious people make fun of you. n/t

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Response to KG (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 10:11 AM

32. +1

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Response to KG (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 10:13 AM

33. Don't forget the "Send Money!"

It just struck me that I have a better chance at hitting the jackpot with the state lottery than I do getting results in DC with my $20 - $30 - $40 dollar antes to the DCCC, DSCC, et al. I AM proud to say that I sent multiple donations to Alan Grayson's campaign this time around - Elizabeth Warren too. It's THESE sort of reps that I'll support going forward. No more monies to those I make NO difference to. Taxation without representation is stupid - but it's even MORE SO if one submits to it voluntarily!

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Response to KG (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:41 AM

47. CENTRISM !!!!!

Centrism....because it is so EASY!
You don't have to STAND for ANYTHING,
and get to insult those who DO!

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 07:11 AM

2. Did you forget something?

Like the sarcasm tag? Or was that serious?

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Response to Atman (Reply #2)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 07:18 AM

3. No.

It was intentional. Just remember to vote.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 07:26 AM

5. Jerry Brown works WITH President Obama and IS a democratic person.

 

Jerry is NOT 3rd party, not Ralph Nader, not outside the party

Why would you think otherwise and attempt to smear him as such?

Jerry, unlike so many(like Ralph Nader), did NOT whine, did not leave the arena, did nothing of the sort.

Jerry worked within.
He and Jesse Jackson were smeared when he ran/they ran but politics is politics.

Ralph Nader on the other hand, was financed and controlled by republicans and threw happily
the 2000 election, got mega rich(Ralph IS the 1% unless he has blown all his money) and laughed all the way to the bank

UNLIKE JERRY BROWN, Ralph Nader was 100% LAZY not wanting to do the grunt work, but instead of the grunt, likes the whine

Please don't mix them up.

And Jerry Brown is working in tandem, side by side with President Obama as the captain.

Instead of whining, why not Hillary45/Jerry Brown in 2016?

BTW, Jerry Brown's 1-800 campaign was the forerunner of President Obama's campaign in 2008 and 2012.

So please, don't mix Jerry and Ralph up.

Jerry great
Ralph traitor

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #5)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 07:34 AM

8. Right!

All you Nader supporters can get the hell out. Governor Moonbeam is on our side now. He can stay.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 07:32 AM

7. Doormats. Warm bodies. Useful idiots.

 

That's how they make us feel anyway. We elect these fucks and then they tell us how we need to do the center-right policy because it's the "only thing that can pass". Even if we have veto proof majorities and the electorate is begging us to reverse the flow, we MUST give consideration to the far right because it would be bad manners to affront them.

We're fools. But where else can we turn? They have that fact in their back pocket. If we really squeezed their balls the way the right does to the pukes we might have something going but we're so scared of what the right does in power that we can't teach the lesson.

In short, we have no real place in the party.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 07:40 AM

9. Or, they could get busy finding the ubber progressive candidate they want in 2016.

All of this "no body loves us" stuff gets a bit stale after awhile.

If you, or other democrats, don't like this President, then you better get busy locating the person/people you really want, at both the National, state, and local level.

I find that here on DU I see 10 or 100 "Obama isn't liberal enough OPs" as compared to OPs dedicated to finding sufficiently progressive or liberal candidates.

So if you have any of these sufficiently progressive candidates in mind, you might want to start promoting them.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #9)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 07:44 AM

11. What the hell is a "ubber" progressive??

Seems to me that we vote in progressive candidates all the time? I thought I voted for a progressive the last two elections? Was I wrong?

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Response to kentuck (Reply #11)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 07:53 AM

14. Apprently, from what I read here, he was not "sufficiently" progresive.

Or was he ... you tell me.

You are the one dividing the Democratic party into the good liberals, and the bad centrists. Given that, I leave it to you to decide what it means for a candidate to be sufficiently liberal for you.

You had included Jerry Brown and Ralph Nader as examples, until some one argued that Jerry is nothing like Ralph and you tossed Jery under the bus in response. Jerry was as progressive as Ralph, until he wasn't, I guess.

And so again, if you think the Democratic party is not providing you with sufficiently liberal or progressive candidates, you might want to start finding some who you think are sufficiently progressive, and promoting them.


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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #9)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 08:40 AM

17. are you sure that's allowed?

I've been hearing people say we should start lining up behind Hillary and/or Biden.

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Response to Enrique (Reply #17)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 08:52 AM

19. Wasn't Hillary a "sure thing" in 2008?

Here's the deal, you have until around Jan 2014 to get this sufficiently progressive candidate out on the playing field.

After that, the team of primary candidates will hit the field running.

So unless you want to spend now though at least 2020 complaining about how the President isn't progressive enough, you need to get started.

Or yes, Hillary will win in 2016 and you will have nothing to do but complain until 2020, or even 2024 depending on how her first term goes.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 07:42 AM

10. That's funny, I sure hear a lot of crap about 2010 being lost due to the left staying home

Even though that wasn't what happened it still seems that with that claim the left is acknowledged as a critical voting bloc.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 07:44 AM

12. sigh. yet another post that brings the collective IQ of DU down, down, down.

silly, over generalized; lumping all progressives and liberals into one tidy mass.

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Response to cali (Reply #12)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 07:46 AM

13. To be honest...

I don't think the collective IQ of DU can get much lower.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #13)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 09:27 AM

23. +10

n/t

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Response to kentuck (Reply #13)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 09:58 AM

28. well, it's so nice you help that trend on a consistent basis.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #13)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:59 AM

50. I have to agree, and it isn't the liberals that are bringing it down. n/t

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Response to kentuck (Reply #13)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 12:04 PM

52. UHHHHHHHHHHHMERICA!!!!!!!11111111111

 

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Response to cali (Reply #12)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 09:55 AM

26. That could be your sig! nt

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 08:33 AM

15. Democrats are in a new Don`t-Make-Waves era

where many freely trash unions, openly support torture and offer opinions like, "This is just how the Senate works."

Since I`m nearly 70 and have been a Democrat for decades, I can tell you that I hardly recognize the place. The fact that the party`s center post has been moved to the right and it`s now way "liberal" to be for things like unemployment benefits, affordable health care and civil liberties. This paves the way for Democratic progressives to be party outcasts. Just ask folks like Rahm Emanuel or Harold Ford or any number of "party spokespeople" on tv. They`ll excuse just about anything.

I`m from the Howard Dean wing of the Democratic party. I don`t make excuses for the corporate takeover of our leadership and I don`t make excuses for things like our pitiful oversight of poverty. My progressive/liberal values were formed during the Vietnam War and during the Civil Rights movement and I can`t imagine ever changing.

Like I used to say when I posted regularly on this board, you can`t look at a pile of dog crap and call it a strawberry sundae, so progressives and liberals should stay true to their guiding principles, whether "mainstream" Democrats want us to or not.

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Response to democrank (Reply #15)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:52 AM

49. Thanks.....

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Response to democrank (Reply #15)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 06:46 PM

55. +1

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 08:35 AM

16. Dry, tangy with just a hint of sarcasm. A lot of people actually think this way.

Thanks for a nice morning cup of bitters, served neat.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 08:51 AM

18. Apparently their role is to clutter up the internet...

by whining about how their non-productive posturing on message boards goes unappreciated.

You want to be a liberal? Take off your Buddy Holly glasses, stop blathering about how you were into Elizabeth Warren "before she was cool," and start shoveling with the rest of us already. it's a lot of work, and real life doesn't give you +1's and "likes" so I get your reluctance, but we could use a few extra hands, instead of lots of meaningless text.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 09:03 AM

20. I'll put on my Obama-bot hat and say

- Just shut up and vote! - to the libs and progressives. We don't need to hear your high falutin' ideas or dreamy visions, you don't understand how government works anyway. President Obama has got this covered and you should have more faith and devotion in this divinely inspired man, who is a combination of Abraham Lincoln, Martin Luther King, and Ghandi all in one. I adore my President, and any good loyal Democrat would do the same!

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Response to quinnox (Reply #20)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 10:08 AM

31. Don't shut up ... simply start to promote a sufficiently progressive canddiate for 2016

and do so NOW, because you can't wait.

If you don't get one or more "sufficiently progressive" candidates in place before 2014, then you will likely spend 2016-2020 just as disappointed.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #31)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 10:16 AM

36. Wasn't that tried with Dennis Kucinich?

And people here went nuts about how he was unelectable.

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Response to geomon666 (Reply #36)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 10:40 AM

42. Then give up I guess.

I mean if Dennis didn't win in the 2008 primaries, apparently all hope is lost for 2016.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 09:04 AM

21. Same as conservatives and 'regressives' in the republican party?

Keep the party 'true to its principles' and keep the moderates from compromising too much. I think that is how political parties everywhere function. While members should agree on the broad outlines of the government's role in society, I doubt that any parties have universal agreement in their ranks about every specific policy.

Of course the 'principles', as espoused by progressive and 'regressives', are diametrically opposed, but the criticism from progressives and from 'regressives' is similar to the extent that in both cases the believe that the party is compromising too much with the 'evil' on the other side.

As far as winning elections is concerned, the republican party proved in 2012 that it is difficult to win a national election with the 'un-moderate' wing of the party running things. 'Regressives' held a lot of sway over the republican party from 2010 to 2012. Witness the spectacle of the republican debates. After their resulting electoral debacle of 2012 that is less true (though certain republican politicians continue to play to the 'regressive' wing of the party).

Of course, the 'regressives' in their party undoubtedly now assess the lost election as the fault of their moderates who compromised the message too much (a version of "romney was not a true conservative"). In their view the party needs an even more conservative candidate and message in 2016.

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Response to pampango (Reply #21)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 09:57 AM

27. Unfortunately, the corporate interests you promote here are not "progressive" in any way.

I LOOOOVE your sig, by the way. Deliciously ludicrous!

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Response to Romulox (Reply #27)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 10:29 AM

37. You got me! Such a fact-filled, detailed counter-argument reveals my true nature.

You are the acknowledged master of the one-line put-down and the great arbiter of what constitutes genuine progressivism. You are a DU treasure.

My corporate masters are not happy that you have been able to expose my true conservative goals. I had convinced them that I could snow everyone at DU with thousands of insincere posts in favor higher corporate taxes, increased corporate regulation, stronger unions, a more effective safety net and more progressive taxation. (I will, of course, keep making these insincere posts but, in the back of my mind, I will know that the Great Arbiter is seeing right through me.)

I admire your ability to see through my trickery and expose my true corporate-living nature. You are a special person in that regard.

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Response to pampango (Reply #37)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 10:29 AM

38. There is no point in "debating" talking points from CATO. You run away whenever pressed, anyhow. nt

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Response to Romulox (Reply #38)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 10:34 AM

39. I did not know that CATO was promoting progressive taxes, corporate regulation and a strong safety

net. You are more up to date on their positions than I am.

I actually enjoy debating posters who use right-wing talking points. It's actually quite easy. You should try it.

Gotta run.

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Response to pampango (Reply #39)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 10:36 AM

40. It's the US Chamber of Commerce economics to which I refer, and you know it.



I actually enjoy debating posters who use right-wing talking points. It's actually quite easy. You should try it.


Ummmm.

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Response to Romulox (Reply #40)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:03 AM

44. Well, of course. The Chamber is well known for promoting progressive taxes, corporate regulation,

an effective safety net and strong labor unions. Again you see right through me.

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Response to pampango (Reply #44)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:51 AM

48. You're being coy, and you know it. That's fine with me, actually.

I consider it a small victory, that you feel the need to self-censor.

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Response to Romulox (Reply #48)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:32 PM

53. Good. Then we are both happy. n/t

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 09:53 AM

25. "We know how to win elections without you"

 

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 10:01 AM

30. We are a "big tent" party

There is room for everyone here. Honest and spirited debates on issues are healthy for ALL of us.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 10:14 AM

34. They make a center right party appear to have standards n/t

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 10:16 AM

35. Did you get up on the wrong side of the bed or something?

What's with all the hair-splitting this morning? I think you need a hug

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 10:36 AM

41. They are deliberate, misleading scenery,

so that the party can claim still to be representing the interests of voters, while in reality the game is rigged for corporatists, every single time.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 10:59 AM

43. A rebuttal.

Because the "adults" are nothing but apologists for a kinder, gentler fascism masked as liberty. I can be clearer...anybody who opposes the right and ability of the crowd to criticize our leaders is outing themselves as every bit my enemy as the conservative. Mark that, more than the conservative.

Fuck the DLC/3rdWay/whatever-new-label-they've-taken-to-avoid-being-called-what-they-are: refugees from the GOP who would rather still be the GOP and are bound and determined to make us the new GOP. Doubly-fuck those who would suggest we kowtow to them as you have.

I hate you more than I hate any tea-partier because they actually have conviction in their principles as misguided and racist as they may be. You're worse than Birchers. You're worse than sophists. You're worse than those who engage in political violence. You're the threat to liberty that Upton Sinclair never saw coming: You've taken fascism and called it liberty. You've taken to giving away our supposedly-shared ideals and calling it chess.

You're my enemy. More than the GOP or the Tea-Party or even the goddamn birther-racists: You.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:18 AM

45. They should get the fuck off their crosses and show the fuck up at a meeting or two.

Maybe take their turn and run a voter registration table, volunteer to walk a precinct, or take an older person to go get legal id so they can vote. You know--democracy in action, as opposed to being an active member of the 101st Chairborne, Fighting Keyboards company.

Maybe all the liberals and progressives feeling left out should put down their phones and stop twitting long enough to elect a progressive House in 2014, since Article 1, Section 7 ain't going away anytime soon.

Here's my personal observation--on Election Day, the self-proclaimed "liberals and progressives" of this board--the ones who tell each other that they are "highly respected" members of an Internet chat board, weren't actually doing anything for the Democratic Party. But they had lots to write about!!!

You want in? Show up and work. Then complain.

I spent Election Day protecting the vote of minority citizens. What did you do for the Democratic Party and the constitutional process?

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:30 AM

46. Vote for what they believe in and vote against what they don't.

The party isn't about to move left until they need the votes of the left. Holding one's nose and voting for 3rd Way Moderates only strengthens the moderates and weakens the progressives.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 12:03 PM

51. according to shit ass rahm

 

they fill the role of fucking retards.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 03:00 PM

54. We know how to win elections without you.

That's good to know before i donated to DU!

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