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Thu Jan 24, 2013, 08:37 PM

Fat-shaming may curb obesity, bioethicist says

Unhappy with the slow pace of public health efforts to curb America’s stubborn obesity epidemic, a prominent bioethicist is proposing a new push for what he says is an “edgier strategy” to promote weight loss: ginning up social stigma.

Daniel Callahan, a senior research scholar and president emeritus of The Hastings Center, put out a new paper this week calling for a renewed emphasis on social pressure against heavy people -- what some may call fat-shaming -- including public posters that would pose questions like this:

“If you are overweight or obese, are you pleased with the way that you look?”

Callahan, a former smoker, argued that public shunning of those who lit up led to plunging rates of cigarette use. People were asked to smoke outside and told directly or indirectly that their “nasty” habit was socially unacceptable.

http://todayhealth.today.com/_news/2013/01/24/16664866-fat-shaming-may-curb-obesity-bioethicist-says?lite


Callahan is wrong about this. Fat people already face a lot of shaming, and losing weight is not easy nor is it cheap. Is Callahan willing to start an inexpensive line of organic low fat foods, offer cheap workout equipment, free gym memberships, counseling, and the other tools that help people lose weight?

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Reply Fat-shaming may curb obesity, bioethicist says (Original post)
fried eggs Jan 2013 OP
riverbendviewgal Jan 2013 #1
RebelOne Jan 2013 #34
virgogal Jan 2013 #39
CTyankee Jan 2013 #66
1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #128
CTyankee Jan 2013 #129
1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #130
CTyankee Jan 2013 #131
snooper2 Jan 2013 #50
dmallind Jan 2013 #75
RebelOne Jan 2013 #112
mythology Jan 2013 #140
alcibiades_mystery Jan 2013 #2
BadgerKid Jan 2013 #17
niyad Jan 2013 #29
Ken Burch Jan 2013 #23
Hekate Jan 2013 #97
Pretzel_Warrior Jan 2013 #146
BuddhaGirl Jan 2013 #3
ohheckyeah Jan 2013 #62
BuddhaGirl Jan 2013 #116
ohheckyeah Jan 2013 #118
BuddhaGirl Jan 2013 #127
ohheckyeah Jan 2013 #134
Selatius Jan 2013 #4
BuddhaGirl Jan 2013 #5
niyad Jan 2013 #11
BuddhaGirl Jan 2013 #22
niyad Jan 2013 #6
BuddhaGirl Jan 2013 #9
JaneyVee Jan 2013 #14
niyad Jan 2013 #21
Art_from_Ark Jan 2013 #47
niyad Jan 2013 #56
Hekate Jan 2013 #100
Deep13 Jan 2013 #126
OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #7
Ken Burch Jan 2013 #20
RKP5637 Jan 2013 #76
jeff47 Jan 2013 #159
JaneyVee Jan 2013 #8
HuskiesHowls Jan 2013 #10
nickinSTL Jan 2013 #12
AnnieBW Jan 2013 #13
devilgrrl Jan 2013 #15
seabeyond Jan 2013 #16
Ken Burch Jan 2013 #18
REP Jan 2013 #32
fried eggs Jan 2013 #48
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geomon666 Jan 2013 #25
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fried eggs Jan 2013 #49
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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 08:42 PM

1. is that like shaming for smoking

Does not seem to work

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Response to riverbendviewgal (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:22 PM

34. You correct. I am a smoker and get shamed daily by non-smokers.

It is not working.

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Response to RebelOne (Reply #34)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:46 PM

39. I am a smoker and people TRY to shame me but it also doesn't work on me. I

actually think it is funny.

There are lots of behaviors I don't care for but I keep my thoughts to myself.

Those "shamers" are just small minded people.

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Response to RebelOne (Reply #34)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:02 AM

66. It worked for me! I didn't want to be a smoker any more. I hated the way my clothes and

my skin smelled. I very much wanted to be like nonsmokers, even tho I had been smoking for almost 20 years. And I consider it the smartest thing I've ever done and feel good about it now.

Weight loss is different. You don't have to smoke to live but you have to eat. And there are other environmental differences, esp. with stuff they put in our food supply, that determines a lot of weight gain, IMO...

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #66)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 03:39 PM

128. But was it the shaming, i.e., ...

some random person assert his/her right to stand right next to you in a thousand acre park and complaining that you are/were assaulting them and their unborn, that got you to stop? Or was it your desire to not be a smoker any more, and/or your hate for the way your clothes and skin smelled, and/or your very much wanting to be like nonsmokers?

This shaming stuff is just another example of "my right to treat you anyway I want."

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #128)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 03:46 PM

129. Well, I DID feel inferior to nonsmokers. I remember that at the time I admired Ralph Nader and

I noted that he had said he would never hire anyone to work for him who smoked and considered it to be a character flaw. That kinda made me feel bad about myself.

But I guess it was a combination of all of those things but I did feel unattractive and not a very good person...

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #129)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 03:51 PM

130. I'm sorry. n/t

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #130)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 03:57 PM

131. Oh, thanks but don't be sorry, I'm just so glad I stopped smoking!

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Response to riverbendviewgal (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 10:39 PM

50. Yeah, it doesn't, that's why obese people should pay 20% more in insurance premiums

Like us smokers do..



Making me look at e-cigs..finally going to order one tomorrow...

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #50)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 10:31 AM

75. And if obesity killed as many people, they might.

Actuaries don't play favorites. If they did rates for fertile age women would not be higher either.

20% or so smoke - 435k deaths. 30%+ are obese - ca. 100k deaths (yes health nazis - the CDC retracted their laughable 363k lies shortly after the blunder, so stop quoting it hoping people are idiots who don't know that). To be equal to smoking in risk thhat would have to be closer to 700k. So which should carry a higher premium?

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Response to dmallind (Reply #75)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:26 PM

112. I am 74 years old and have been smoking since I was 16.

And I plan on living to at least 84. I have known many who never smoked a cigarette and died in their 40s and 50s.

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Response to RebelOne (Reply #112)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:44 PM

140. Unfortunately for that argument, statistics exist

Just because you've live a long time while being a smoker doesn't mean that it's a healthy past time.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 08:44 PM

2. I wish we had a celery smiley instead of all this damn popcorn

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #2)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 08:54 PM

17. Happy celery...








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Response to BadgerKid (Reply #17)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:05 PM

29. did you just create those?

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #2)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:00 PM

23. If you look closely, that's unbuttered smiliecorn.

n/t.

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #2)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:20 PM

97. mmmmm, butter

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #2)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 04:21 AM

146. bahahahhahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

 

celery is fattening if eaten in great enough quantities. or deep fried.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 08:45 PM

3. Disgusting!

He is comparing shaming the obese to the shaming of smokers??

Last I heard, obesity doesn't cause second-hand obesity, nor is it something some people have absolute control over.

Idiot!

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Response to BuddhaGirl (Reply #3)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 12:41 AM

62. Actually you are somewhat wrong:

Children whose parents are overweight or obese are at higher risk for becoming obese themselves, studies have shown. A study in the Journal of Pediatrics, for instance, found five independent risk factors for childhood overweight. The main risk factor was parental weight.

http://www.yalemedicalgroup.org/stw/Page.asp?PageID=STW001880

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Response to ohheckyeah (Reply #62)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:41 PM

116. well duh

My point was that obesity doesn't affect anyone standing in it's proximity. It was said to make a point, but I guessed you missed the sarcasm.

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Response to BuddhaGirl (Reply #116)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:48 PM

118. Got attitude?

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Response to ohheckyeah (Reply #118)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 03:38 PM

127. nope!

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Response to BuddhaGirl (Reply #127)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 06:09 PM

134. You said:

obesity doesn't cause second-hand obesity

I said that's not entirely true - which is true.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 08:47 PM

4. Shaming the obese already happens every day implicitly and explicitly.

This is simply tossing one or two more logs onto a roaring fire.

The obesity epidemic won't cure itself unless there is a major cultural shift in lifestyle, changes to eating habits, and subsidies for HFCS and sugars eliminated entirely.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 08:47 PM

5. I can't believe someone actually recommended this thread!!

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Response to BuddhaGirl (Reply #5)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 08:50 PM

11. threads are often recommended, not because the person agrees, but because the subject is

one that the person feels should receive the widest possible attention.

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Response to niyad (Reply #11)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:00 PM

22. Makes sense

It was a reactionary post!

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 08:48 PM

6. how about addressing our entire food system, the poisons, the additives, the crap, the lack

of nutrition in our food? the fact that so much of our food is NOT nutritious and healthy, thanks to big agra? how about addressing communities that do not encourage healthy exercise like walking, because these communities are not actually designed for human beings?

SHAMING people is the best you, an ethicist, can come up with? realllllly? you must be a total crackpot, then, and probably from a reichwing think tank, at that.

I see idiocy is not limited to any one branch of science or knowledge, is it?

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Response to niyad (Reply #6)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 08:49 PM

9. ^^^^^^^

+1!!!

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Response to niyad (Reply #6)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 08:52 PM

14. Exactly! And even wages. Poverty forces many people to eat terribly.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #14)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:00 PM

21. yes, thank you. and how about the fact that in many urban areas, there are NO supermarkets,

no grocery stores of any kind, only convenience stores, and no way to get fresh fruits and vegetables, fresh food of any kind?

yeah, this guy is a real genius and humanitarian.

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Response to niyad (Reply #6)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 10:18 PM

47. My hometown is a great bad example of the point you have made

Up until the early 1970s, the downtown area was a thriving shopping area that was within easy access of most people living within the city limits, with sidewalks running along most city streets. The elementary school was a three-minute walk from my house, as was the high school. The junior high was 5 minutes away by bicycle.

Today, the nearest elementary school is in "Timbuktu", the junior high is in "Katmandu"-- I would have to take a bus to either of those places if I were a student today. The downtown shops, which are now mostly specialty shops that few people visit, usually either go out of business in a couple of years, or relocate to the affluent areas of "Istanbul" or "Jakarta". New developments are built without regard to pedestrians, and many stop lights are activated by cars, but not by bicycles or pedestrians.

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Response to Art_from_Ark (Reply #47)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 12:23 AM

56. there was a wonderful 4-part series on pbs called "designing healthy communities" that addressed

many issues, including some we have mentioned here. if you get a chance, you might like to see it (I would imagine your library could get a copy)

http://designinghealthycommunities.org/

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Response to niyad (Reply #6)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:30 PM

100. Well said, niyad

Our food supply has been POISONED.

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Response to niyad (Reply #6)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 03:37 PM

126. Ahem, THE ADVERTISING? nt

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 08:48 PM

7. What's next, outright bullying overweight kids at school? Publicly shaming them...

....so that they hate going to school?

Great idea, Daniel.

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #7)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 08:59 PM

20. This man is the quintessential bully...he loathes people with weight issues,

but what he actually wants(as all TRUE bullies do)is to get others to do the bullying FOR him. Once again, it's not so much about inflicting the pain as having the power to cause it to be inflicted on his command by those he feels entitled to command.

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #7)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 10:40 AM

76. His next new ad, "Shame the Gays" ... Then we can move onto "Shame the Brown Skin People" and

then "Shame the Nonreligious." Gee, we can shame a bunch. High Powered Marketing Ad! "Contact us for your next Shame Ad Campaign, we have a proven track record of guilt driven results."

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #7)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 02:18 PM

159. What makes you think that's "next"?

I can assure that's already going on, and has been going on for a very, very long time.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 08:49 PM

8. Ridiculous & cruel. There are many obese people due to medical conditions. Now we're shaming

medical conditions? What next, posters asking people in wheelchairs if they're sad because they can't stand up?

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 08:50 PM

10. That would just add to the mental health problems....

My daughter has the same shape as her mother, who has the same shape her grandfather did.....that of a pear! No way could my wife lose weight, irregardless of what she did. For both of them, its a genetic thing, and NO amount of shaming will help my daughter. The social stigma she has faced already has put her in the psych ward many times, and in counseling for many, many years!!

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 08:52 PM

12. This guy has no clue about

the experience of obesity.

There is already significant societal shaming on obesity, and I know from personal experience that shaming on a personal level is counter-productive.

Someone who's never dealt with obesity is supremely unqualified to make any kind of pronouncements on how it should be addressed by society, imo.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 08:52 PM

13. It didn't work for me

I got it every day of my childhood and young adulthood. It doesn't work. It only makes a fat person have zero self esteem, and drives them into the food.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)


Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 08:53 PM

16. shaming does not work. we know that as parents. nt

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 08:56 PM

18. If fat shaming worked, no one would BE fat.

The shaming would already have made everyone stay permanently thin.

We are a society in which most of us, for various reasons, are constantly being shamed over something about ourselves. If all that shaming actually led to personal improvement, shouldn't it have turned us into a nation of self-created ubermenschen by now?

Shaming on personal issues doesn't ever work...humiliation never works...unless the objective is just to drive those that the shamer feels entitled to label as inferior all the way to suicide.

Who the fuck does this sadistic, judgmental bastard think he is? Is HE utterly without flaws?

And can we assume that EVERYONE with a weight problem has that problem strictly due to personal weakness?

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #18)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:08 PM

32. GMTA

Posted mine before I saw yours

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #18)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 10:30 PM

48. +1000!

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 08:57 PM

19. Absolutely not! That person knows NOTHING about obese people.

Being obese is NOT the same thing as being addicted to cigarettes or heroin. It's a very different thing.

For one thing....you don't need cigarettes to live. You need food. People are addicted to cigarettes, and can give them up entirely. People are not technically addicted to food, and you can't give up food entirely.

Smoking just a little is dangerous. Eating just a little is not dangerous.

Making people pariahs in society for being obese will just get people more ashamed of their weight and more depressed or angry, which could lead to MORE overeating.

Stupid idea. There are also some reasons that some people become obese besides eating massive quantities of bad food. There is a fat gene, and there are medical conditions, as well as side effects from some medications.

So if someone, no matter what size, is eating a piece of cake, do you tell them to go outside and eat it? Or only if they're fat? How fat? Who decides that? What if someone is on Weight Watchers and is having something fattening for a splurge but is still within their diet rules? On WW you can eat anything...it's how often and how much you eat that count.

I am not obese, but I would NEVER participate or encourage this sort of thing toward others.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:01 PM

24. Seriously?

How cruel. I think as a society we need to become increasingly accepting of people and look past any disabilities.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:01 PM

25. Not only will obesity rates climb because of actions like this.

But so will depression and social anxiety rates. More people on antidepressants and more suicides as a result of an increase in public ridicule and shaming. Those who don't succumb to suicidal thoughts are more likely to binge eat thus increasing their obesity and the risk of heart failure and other ailments go up.

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Response to geomon666 (Reply #25)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:05 PM

28. also anorexia and bulimia

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Response to eShirl (Reply #28)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:11 PM

109. That was precisely the result of fat shaming in my house.

Two daughters with eating disorders. Great strategy, mom.

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Response to geomon666 (Reply #25)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:28 PM

35. Well you got it right on the nail geomon6. I am obese and I am a stress eater when I

 

worry about things. The more a doctor ridicules a patient the patient will stop going to the doctor. I know I would and have done it. I mean I am paying the doctor and I already know I have a weight issue. Some doctors approach are nasty. I remember once going to the doctor and he said I was going to die. That was the last time I went to him. Am 65 now and I go to my doctors and do everything they tell me to do. My last doctor mention about losing weight in a kind way. I thanked him and told him I am trying to cut down and try not snacking. That is the only thing I can do. I am sick and tired of eating constant diet foods.

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Response to southernyankeebelle (Reply #35)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 10:00 PM

42. I am too.

It took me years to find a sympathetic doctor willing to treat me without ridiculing me or downplaying my other issues due to my weight.

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Response to geomon666 (Reply #42)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 10:03 PM

43. It's very hard. I have been pretty luck now that I have gotten older. I told my doctor

 

last week I thank him for his concern but I just don't have it in me anymore and I am to old to change. He was understanding. I did tell him I would try to cut down. He said I was taking care of myself and going to all my doctor appointments and I am doing good.

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Response to southernyankeebelle (Reply #35)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:08 PM

93. Diet foods are evil.

There is a graphic that I would post if I had it handy and if I knew how that says, "When you see low fat or nonfat, read chemical shit storm."

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Response to Still Blue in PDX (Reply #93)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:28 PM

113. Your right. Sometimes is worse then eat a smaller portion of your regular foods you like.

 

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:03 PM

26. Yes, cause that worked so well to curb teen pregnancy, std's, and people getting high...

I can't think of a single instance where calling someone a loser for whatever reason or shaming them has actually led to a behavior change. Smoking rates have dropped, but I think that is more about the high tax put on cigarettes rather than draconian measures and shaming. And I can't imagine a drug treatment plan that consists of an addict going to treatment and getting berated for being a drug user. And teenagers know the stigma of having a baby at such a young age, yet somehow pregnancy rates don't drop until young people have something they are trying to achieve, then they drop because they don't have time to mess around.

As a disclaimer I am currently extremely obese. Being made fun of never once stopped me from eating. It might have stopped me from pigging out in a social situation, but I could and did get plenty of food at home. In fact, in many cases I would just eat more, because food wasn't making fun of me. After decades of being shamed the only thing that seems to work is finding out what foods satisfy me. And it wasn't even close to what I imagined it would be. We need to teach real nutrition and I don't know what will ever make that happen.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:03 PM

27. According to Wikipedia

Daniel Callahan is 82 years old.

A different era - shaming was definitely more acceptable.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:07 PM

30. I don't understand how such an idiot is part of the hastings center. I have been looking at their

web site, and there appear to be some really good, thoughtful, intelligent articles there--NOTHING like what this bully with a degree is saying.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:07 PM

31. If it worked, there would be few fat people.

Duh.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:21 PM

33. As an obese person I'm sick and tired of people degrading us. Fat people don't like being

 

fat. Believe me I have tried every diet in the world. Every diet. Even surgery. People who have a weight problem can't always do it. No matter how hard I tried. Yo yo dieting was killing me. I finally said enough. Now I haven't yo yo anymore but I am still heavy but happy. Believe me when I was younger then doctors made me feel bad. Until I finally had enough and stopped going to the doctor. That's what people will do stop going to the doctor. Because if we want to be humilated all we need to do is walk in public and hear it. People who don't have weight issues just don't get it.

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Response to southernyankeebelle (Reply #33)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:43 PM

38. "Fat" is in the eye of the beholder

Fuck ignorant people who can't understand "fat"may result from hormonal changes in menopause or diabetes onset.

What this country needs is less shaming and blaming and a lot less bigotry.

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Response to duffyduff (Reply #38)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:48 PM

40. your so right. I have thyroid problems. In fact I just had a checkup for cancer. I got

 

my call today and everything is clear. I still have nods and have to have them checked every so often. People who don't have that weight problem really don't get it. I am not lazy and I always worked hard.

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Response to southernyankeebelle (Reply #33)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 10:37 PM

49. Yo yo dieting

The story of my life! I want to stop but I'm scared of how much weight I'd gain if I did.

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Response to fried eggs (Reply #49)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 08:27 AM

69. Funny thing is for me once I stopped worring about dieting the yo yo stopped. What I did

 

was just cut my portion size down, stop drinking so much diet soda (I mean I still drink one or 2 a day with lunch and dinner some times). I drink allot of water because that gives you a full feeling and I love water. I am not into juices because they upset my stomach. I rarely fry anything. I try to cut out the in-between meals. When I do that I can of stay where I am. The yo yo diet isn't good for your system. I just can't diet anymore and after having that major lose surgery back in 75 where I lost over 100 pds. It really works hard on your system. When I hit 50 my body took a beating. I am on so many meds and I can't absorb the vitms that am on so many different pills now. Maybe you should try it for a month or 2 and see what happens. Don't cut out what you like just cut portion size and stop the in between eating.

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Response to fried eggs (Reply #49)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 12:01 PM

89. many years ago, a friend told me that she (a very large woman with a thyroid problem) had

been told by her doctor that a surprising number of people who spent their lived on yo-yo diets showed evidence of cirrhosis of the liver when they died. not a pleasant thought.

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Response to southernyankeebelle (Reply #33)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:12 AM

68. my husband's cardiologist gives him the "lecture" every time he goes in for his regular

check up. I stopped accompanying him because I didn't want to hear it. His doc is a tiny, skinny man of a different culture. I doubt if he COULD put on weight, even if he wanted to.

My approach to my husband is just to limit his calories where I can and cook nutritious meals. He was doing pretty well losing weight after his two spinal surgeries and he does still work out at the gym, but I think the winter months cause him to eat more. I know I do, altho I am not obese and won't ever be downright skinny.)

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #68)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 08:53 AM

71. I have A-Feb (irregular heart beat). They haven't had that talk with me. But

 

I have to say if he does I will thank him and tell him I have tried every diet in the book and even had the weight surgery and I am sick and tired of the yo yo dieting. I am trying to eat healthier but I just can't do the dieting anymore. Like you I try to eat healthier. I don't fry foods. I eat more chicken (baked). I cook pasta sauce in a crockpot. I'll make hamburgers in the oven. I happen to like hamburgers with cottage cheese and tomatoes on top. I like salads with vingar and olive oil. I think you are doing it right. I don't go to doctors who are from other countries if I can help it. They are always bring up your weight. Especially when they don't have a health problem. One time a doctor who was from India I think looked me in the eye and told me I was going to die. I got so pissed at him I looked him in the eye and I said to him maybe you and people in your country don't have weight issues but I come from a background where citizens in our country aren't starving on the side of the road because their government won't help them. He shut up and I never went back to him. Just tell your husband to tell the doctor he is trying but he just can't diet. Tell the doctor he needs to stop beating a dead horse. He already knows he is fat and the doctor hounding him isn't going to change the fact.

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Response to southernyankeebelle (Reply #71)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 12:17 PM

91. This doc made a bad impression from the start...

when hubby had his cardio issues and was in the hospital the doc said to me to wait for the procedure being done and "the girls will come to get you." I said "I didn't know St. Rafe's Hospital employed children!" He said "oh, I mean the nurses."

That didn't go down well with me...

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #91)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:28 PM

99. That doctor alone would stress me out. I would find another doctor that is in your health net.

 

Don't walk, run.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:39 PM

36. Bullshit. All it does is increase isolation and depression

both of which lead to more comfort eating, not less.

Public shaming didn't work to discourage smokers. High taxes and indoor restrictions did.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:41 PM

37. He's as ignorant of this issue as he is of abortion.

He must be a 100 years old now.

Edit: He's 82, but he's been blathering on about abortion and other "ethical" issues for decades.

I am not kidding.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:54 PM

41. THE LOW FAT DIET IS A SCAM!!

Sorry I notice you made a low fat food mention and I just had to yell that out. The low fat diet is another huge thing that hold people back. The think eating low fat peanut butter, low fat cheese, and low fat Hot Pockets... ... are going to help them loose weight.

A 2 mile walk every day and curbing carbohydrates goes a long way!

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 10:07 PM

44. The real reason I quit smoking was not that I was unacceptable to some

I preferred the smokers outside. Friendlier.

But in the last month I was smoking, an ash fell and I burned a teeny hole in the rug, a teeny hole in my slacks, and a teeny hole in my nightgown. And I wasn't aware of the ash falling till I felt the heat.

I started to worry that I was slower and my instincts were not as sharp and thought I might burn the house down. Everytime I went out I could not remember putting the last one out, even tho I know I did. Made me a nervous wreck.

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Response to fadedrose (Reply #44)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 12:14 PM

90. When I quit, I lost a source of information

The smoking area was populated with people in other areas of the company, so information (or gossip) got conveyed there. Once I quit smoking, I had no reason to stand around outside, so didn't see those folks.

It's the only part of smoking that I miss.

I remember burning teeny holes in my clothes, but that was WAY back, when seeds exploded

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Response to JustABozoOnThisBus (Reply #90)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:55 PM

106. How about shopping?

I used to go to the snack bar at Meijer's, or K-mart or whereever they had one, put down my packages, and have a good smoke.

And the rule was that smokers talked to each other, and it was never considered flirting or rude, it was just like family, no, better than family..

These snack bars are closed now, and a lot of other places..

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 10:13 PM

45. ohforfuckssake

Callahan is looking for an excuse to be a mean asshole to people.

The smoking example is pure bullshit too. If people are quitting because they can't smoke indoors, it's more likely from the inconvenience and discomfort of having to stand outside in the cold and rain, away from their drinks. And the cost. Not from fucking "shaming".

What an asshole.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 10:14 PM

46. The obscene price of cigarettes are why I quit.

 

I never gave a fuck whether anyone liked it or not.

This dude sounds like a real douche.

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Response to MrSlayer (Reply #46)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 12:58 AM

64. Which is why some people have advocated for higher taxes

on some foods and drinks.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 11:06 PM

51. Yes, let's all hate each other.

Let's shame smokers, eaters, parents, rape victims, drug addicts, masturbators, drivers, and the poor.

If only there was more hate in the world.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 11:35 PM

52. I used to be a smoker until employers started treating smokers like lepers. Even if they only

 

smoked in the privacy of their own home. So yes, I guess the stigma worked for me. What really seemed to turn a lot of people against smokers was when they were told that they were paying more for insurance to cover the smokers health care. I told everyone back then that they'd come for the obese people next. And they will. It's only a matter of time. Obesity is already looked down upon privately, people just don't admit to it publicly. As soon as people start hearing their health care costs are so high because of Lung, heart, issues for the obese, it's done. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that people are more than happy to take away things "other people" choose to enjoy.

Freedom is great as long as no one else gets it.

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #52)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 12:35 AM

61. But we don't pay more for smokers or fat people-we pay less!

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/health/05iht-obese.1.9748884.html

Preventingob obesity and smoking can save lives, but it does not save money, according to a new report.

It costs more to care for healthy people who live years longer, according to a Dutch study that counters the common perception that preventing obesity would save governments millions of dollars.

"It was a small surprise," said Pieter van Baal, an economist at the National Institute for Public Health and the Environment in the Netherlands, who led the study. "But it also makes sense. If you live longer, then you cost the health system more."

In a paper published online Monday in the Public Library of Science Medicine journal, Dutch researchers found that the health costs of thin and healthy people in adulthood are more expensive than those of either fat people or smokers.

Van Baal and colleagues create Preventing obesity and smoking can save lives, but it does not save money, according to a new report.

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Response to eridani (Reply #61)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:41 PM

105. Thanks for the link. Hopefully this will shut up the "you cost me more" crowd, but we're

 

still dealing with the hypocrites who say it's a womans body she has the right to do with it as she please's, but that suddenly changes when it comes to a smokers right or an obese persons right. I fought tooth and nail for a womans right to an abortion on the platform that her body belonged to her. How would we like it if the repubs stared taxing abortions the way we do smokes and are now starting to do with sodas? After all, it's elective. This is all getting out of hand.

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #52)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:06 PM

92. I was, too. And now my employer is doing the same to obese people.

At least once a week I get an email promoting a "healthy lifestyle," and the intranet is full of articles on exercise, diet, and stress reduction. We get a miniscule bonus each year, and one of the things it is based on is the percentage of employees who fill out a total health assessment and are working on losing weight.

Some days I find it helpful. Other days I find it infuriating and degrading.

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Response to Still Blue in PDX (Reply #92)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:31 PM

101. What ever happened to live and let live? It's no ones business if you're fat or you smoke. It's your

 

body, not theirs. If your fat or you smoke and that's what makes you happy, why must they make it their business? People won't be happy until we're all simple dumb drones with no vices at all, living in plastic bubbles to save us from anything that could harm us. Those who chose to live without the bubble and run through the forest and skin a knee should be imprisoned or treated like a leper.

The smoking thing went to far. The obesity thing is headed in the same direction. My body not theirs.

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #52)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 01:22 PM

156. I had an employer encourage me to smoke

When I complained that smokers had more breaks than non smokers (they had their cigarette breaks in addition to the breaks everyone else got).

Their response was 'we sell cigarettes, you're 18, go buy a pack."

This was a chain drugstore and this was 1998.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 11:40 PM

53. What an idiotic notion!

I smoked for over 35 years have not had a cigarette now in 9 months but quitting had nothing at all to do with smoking outside or any shaming but had everything to do with my finances. Also as a person that has Graves disease and got down to 95 pounds before finding out what was wrong with me I discovered how much the thyroid has to do with weight. I am now overweight because of having radiation therapy to kill my thyroid and so now I am hypothyroid rather than hyper. It has absolutely nothing to do with the amount of food I eat. As many have mentioned here health issues can and do cause weight problems. Shaming suffering people is such a disgusting idea!

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Response to Sadiedog (Reply #53)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 09:01 AM

72. Yep--husband has this, and his weight cycled up and down by 40lbs until

--he got his thyroid hormone dosage correct. He changed nothing about his eating habits or exercise patterns the whole time.

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Response to eridani (Reply #72)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 08:15 PM

135. I wish you and him well! nt

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 12:09 AM

54. Great plan to increase future anorexics!

What an idiot.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 12:15 AM

55. I agree with the losing weight is not easy, but it certainly can be cheap.

"losing weight is not easy nor is it cheap. Is Callahan willing to start an inexpensive line of organic low fat foods, offer cheap workout equipment, free gym memberships, counseling, and the other tools that help people lose weight? "

You don't need organic or low-fat foods to lose weight. Just cut out all of the processed crap and focus on whole foods. Oatmeal, steal-cut or long cooking, is extremely nutritious. Buy produce that's in season and focus on your grocers specials. The other day at Aldi, I got 2 pounds of carrots, 2 big zucchinis, mushrooms, celery and bananas for $6. Frozen is also a good bet. Eggs, lentils and beans are very inexpensive sources of protein. All those diet foods, low cal options and fat free options are loaded with crap and end up leaving you hungry. Whole foods fill you up.

And you don't need a fancy gym or lots of workout equipment to get fit. Get outside when it's nice and work out in your living room when it's not. Doesn't cost anything to do squats, jumping jacks, pushups, chair dips, etc. Lots of free resources at the library and the Internet for at-home routines. I lost 30 pounds without any fancy diets or gym membership.

Yes, it is NOT easy. But, I think too many people make excuses for not taking charge of their health. Yes, some people have issues, but that certainly is not the majority of the people who are overweight or obese.

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Response to nobodyspecial (Reply #55)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 10:01 AM

73. how do you propose that people do that who live in areas that have no supermarkets or grocery

stores, only convenience stores (many urban areas). people in those situations have no access to wonderful fruits and vegetablesl, to whole foods.

perhaps some people do make excuses, but you need to look at the whole environment. for a lot of people, things are not as easy as your post seems to indicate.

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Response to niyad (Reply #73)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:03 AM

79. Show me statistics where this is the majority of the overweight people

Certainly, there are issues that we need to address, but this is *not* the majority of the population. And, in most urban areas, public transportation is an option for people without cars to get to the store. I don't have a grocery store where I can get fresh fruits and vegetables on my corner either.

We can sit here and itemize a list of can'ts or why it is hard, but the fact is that as a nation, we are the fattest we have ever been. People lived in urban areas before. People had genetic predispositions before. People were poor before. Have you ever looked at what people eat each day? So many people are overweight that is has become normalized. We have no sense of what a healthy weight looks like any more.

Weight issues or not, most people eat like crap and don't exercise, which you can do in your home with no equipment. I am dirt poor. I still have managed to prepare nutritious foods and lose weight, which has been a lifelong struggle. I am not exceptional, just determined.

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Response to nobodyspecial (Reply #79)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:21 AM

80. you might try actually looking at the realities of what I asked

you might also look at the series I mentioned "designing healthy communities" but then, that might challenge your view of how things are.

an atom of empathy and understanding would not be amiss. the attitude of "I did it, so everbody else should do it too" is not very different from the shaming that this cretin mentions.

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Response to niyad (Reply #80)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:50 AM

84. And you didn't address anything I said.

My post was far more than "I did it so everyone else can." But I guess my points are easier to dismiss if we boil it down to such arrogance. And it is a far reach to say that I believe in shaming. I certainly don't advocate this as a successful strategy. Far from it. I was a fat kid and was bullied relentlessly. I know how much this hurts and how it feeds destructive emotional eating. You know nothing about me to make such accusations or generalizations about my thinking.

Yes, there are many systemic changes that need to be made to get to the heart of the problem. I definitely am on board with that. Never said I wasn't. But, guess what? Those take years if not decades to implement. What are we to do in the meantime while we push for those changes. Get fatter? Get more unhealthy? Continue raising kids who develop adult issues like diabetes and high blood pressure?

There are many ways to make it easier. My position is that it is not impossible now for many, many people. The claim I was addressing was that you have to eat expensive, organic foods or have a gym membership to lose weight. I was simply stating that although it can be challenging, it can be done. Not every overweight person is hobbled by some insurmountable challenge. I know plenty of people who have decent jobs, a kitchen, access to fresh foods and no major health issues that are still 20 or 30 pounds overweight. At what point is this an issue that they personally need to confront?

But, feel free to dismiss my notion that in many cases a certain degree of personal responsibility for one's own choices and health comes into play here. I am not claiming this is true in all cases, but health issues like hypothyroidism is the exception, not the rule. I'm tired of this attitude that it is too hard to do, so we just shrug our shoulders and continue to get fatter.

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Response to nobodyspecial (Reply #84)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:55 AM

86. it is obvious that any attempt would be pointless.

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Response to niyad (Reply #86)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:57 AM

88. You're right

I agreed with you but all of my points are irrelevant. This is going nowhere.

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Response to niyad (Reply #80)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:53 AM

85. +1 nt

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Response to niyad (Reply #73)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:54 PM

120. Travel to one?

I live in the middle of a place like the one you describe. There's no supermarket within 3 miles or so, and tons of taco stands and fast food-- but that doesn't mean I have to eat tacos and fast food.

Once every two weeks, I take a trip across the city to a grocery store, and stock up on fresh and frozen vegetables, canned chicken, fruits, etc. My average lunch costs about $2 now, as opposed to the $6 it used to cost, eating the garbage that was close by.

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Response to Marr (Reply #120)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:15 PM

136. of course, why didn't I think of that? and just how do you travel that measely three miles?

do you have a car, or do you use public transit? I know people who have to travel 10 or more miles each direction, and they don't have cars, so carrying two weeks worth of groceries isn't exactly easy.

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Response to niyad (Reply #136)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:01 AM

142. Well, life isn't easy-- what can I tell you?

You sound like you want someone to do it all for you.

To answer your question, I've done it several ways. Public transit/carrying the groceries back (three or four bags with handles isn't that difficult to manage). I've walked and used one of those two-wheeled carts. I've biked and stuffed things into saddle bags and a backpack. And I've driven, alone or with a friend. It's not that hard.

By the way... if you consider three miles to be "measely", then why are you scoffing at the thought of carrying a couple of grocery bags to a bus stop?

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Response to Marr (Reply #142)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 09:53 AM

148. where did you get the idea I was referring to myself in any of that? nice try, though.

as I suggested to another poster, you might want to watch "designing healthy communities" to get some idea of what people in many communities are dealing with.

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Response to nobodyspecial (Reply #55)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:48 PM

117. Yep. I'd been carrying an extra 30 pounds or so since college, and endlessly

trying to melt it off by eating a bit less... but I was just eating a bit less *crap*. My diet was still 100% crap, there was just a little less of it.

As soon as I started tracking what foods I ate (myfitnesspal.com is fantastic), and did an afternoon's worth of research on healthy eating, my food bills were cut in half. Introduced an exercise regimen to compliment it, and that extra 30 pounds disappeared in less than a year. I've never felt better in my life. I even enjoy the exercise now.

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Response to Marr (Reply #117)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:52 PM

119. Great job!

Now comes the hard work of maintaining. Thanks for adding your experience.

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Response to nobodyspecial (Reply #119)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 03:03 PM

122. Thanks!

Yeah, I've treated it as more of a lifestyle change than a quick fix, so maintaining has been pretty easy. Once I got into shape, exercising became a lot of fun, and there are always new things to try out. I'm doing astanga yoga now and can't believe how strenuous it can be, for the limited space it requires.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 12:26 AM

57. This Nature of Things episode is well worth a look

http://www.cbc.ca/player/Shows/Shows/The+Nature+of+Things/2011-12/ID/2186429482/

New science links man-made chemicals to the global obesity epidemic. Man-made chemicals may be programming us to be fat - before we're even born.

Apart from being an asshat, Callahan is also not up to date on research. It's not just a calories in, calories out game any more.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 12:27 AM

58. Congrats to Callahan for being an accessory after the fact to bullycide

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Kelly_Yeomans

In evidence to court, Yeomans was described as a pleasant and friendly girl. However, she was reported to be the victim of repeated harassment and taunting, particularly about her weight. Her parents said that the incessant bullying had left Yeomans feeling miserable. Her mother asserted that she had gone to her daughter's school, Merrill College, Shelton Lock, thirty times to complain about the issue, but received no assistance. School officials, however, claimed they had received only one complaint.

Matters came to a head in September, 1997, when a group of youths reportedly gathered at Yeomans's home on several consecutive nights, on each occasion throwing food at the house and shouting taunts aimed at Yeomans. Her mother later said that the incident prompted Yeomans to tell her family, "It is nothing to do with you Daddy, nothing to do with you Mummy, and nothing to do with you Sarah . I have had enough and I'm going to take an overdose."

The parents said they were worried and sought help for their daughter's obvious depression, but did not believe she would carry out her threat to take her own life. However, Yeomans was soon found dead in her bedroom after taking an overdose of painkillers.


Tough to get enough exercise if you can't do it in public for fear of constant vicious abuse.

http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/1997/03/23/met_205736.shtml

Jacqueline Graham still can't bring herself to show her son's room to a stranger, but you don't need to look past the photos in the living room to see who he was: He was the fat kid who didn't have any friends. The easy target. The mark. It's all there in his eyes: The sweetness. The shyness. The hurt.

At 5 feet 4, 174 pounds, he wasn't the heaviest kid at his school. But he was sensitive, and when others teased him about his weight, when they chased him down the street or smacked the back of his head when the teacher wasn't looking, he sometimes cried. In the social hierarchy of fifth grade at Westwood Heights Elementary School, that put him squarely at the bottom.

WOULD THINGS HAVE been any different at Parkway Middle School? Sammy was to have started sixth grade there that Monday, the morning his father cut him down from the tree.

<snip>

He was logical and precise, gifted not only at puzzles but at music and math. He could dissect complex arguments with lawyerly skill. Yet he liked the same toys as his cousin, an infant. And he was awkward and clumsy; he couldn't even clap. Josh rode a bike before he could.

In the water, his awkwardness vanished. Not in the daytime - he was too ashamed to let anyone see him in his bathing suit. He had to swim in long pants and a shirt. But at night, it was magic, like shedding his body. In the water at night, he was free.

<snip>

He can only imagine how it must have happened, how God must have watched Sammy steal into the yard with a flashlight, a rope and a step stool, having pieced together his final puzzle: The body he hated. The school he feared. The perfect place that awaited his soul.

He could go there. He would go there. It would be easy, like swimming. Just position the stool and climb up, toward heaven. Then step into God's waiting arms.

http://blogs.sfweekly.com/exhibitionist/2011/09/marilyn_wann_bullycide.php

Teens who perceive themselves as "too fat" -- regardless of what they actually weigh -- are more likely to think about suicide and attempt suicide, according to a 2005 study.

In April, two 14-year-old best friends in Minnesota, Haylee Fentress and Paige Moravetz, died in a shared suicide. Haylee was teased for her weight and her red hair. Haylee's aunt, Robin Settle, said that although Haylee wasn't "severely overweight," she was so self-conscious she rarely ate at school.

Brian Head was 15. One day, students were pulling his hair and slapping him. He had been bullied for his weight since seventh grade. He shot himself. In a poem discovered later, Brian described himself, "as an insignificant 'thing,' something to be traded, mangled, and mocked," reports Barbara Colorosa, author of The Bully, the Bullied and the Bystander. Brian's father successfully lobbied for a law in Georgia that makes bullying a crime.

Brian's death wasn't the last weight-related bullycide. In 1996, I heard about 12-year-old Samuel Graham, who hanged himself from the family's backyard tree rather than start junior high and face taunts about his weight.

In 2004, eighth-grader April Himes skipped 53 days of school to avoid weight-based bullying. School officials were unable to stop the harassment, but they also informed her she must attend or face a truancy board and possible juvenile detention. At that news, she hanged herself.



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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 12:34 AM

59. Shaming/bullying in regards to one's weight is one of DU's dirty little secrets...

I see degrading comments to one's weight with Limbaugh and Christie frequently on DU.

I've callled them out; only to be called a GOP appologist, troll etc.

I alert on these threads/responses every time.

2/3 of the time; the comments are permitted to stand.

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Response to Earth_First (Reply #59)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 03:23 PM

124. Keep on fighting and alerting.

I never alert. It just isn't something that I do. But I do sometimes challenge other posters when they post things that might be hurtful to good people who just happen to be overweight, etc.

For a bunch of supposed liberals, we sure can be a prejudiced, intolerant bunch. Just, you know, not against the same people the Freepers are intolerant to.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 12:35 AM

60. There's one problem. There's no healthy amount of tobacco

A smoker can, and should, quit and never use tobacco again. A person who has a drinking problem can give up drinking entirely. Most people find that easier than just becoming light drinkers. But you can't quit eating. You have to modify your eating habits which is a lot harder. There aren't any grocery stores or restaurants that sell ONLY healthy food. We are constantly bombarded with ads for food, fast food on every street corner etc. I'm fat, but it wouldn't bother me in the least if they decided to get rid of the soda and snack machine at work. I know a lot of people would be pissed though.

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Response to TexasBushwhacker (Reply #60)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 12:57 AM

63. Some smoker's have more trouble quitting than others....

women have a harder time, generally speaking, than men. Smokers who are in physical pain and who have ADD particularly have trouble smoking. Many alcoholics are self-medicating and without medical intervention for the cause of the self-medication some find it virtually impossible to quit.

It's so easy to look at someone else's problem as being easier to deal with. I won't tell you what you can and should do if you don't tell me what I can and should do.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:01 AM

65. Can we shame them with cheese sandwiches? Is that still in vogue? nt

 

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:03 AM

67. I'm betting this doctor makes money on the side treating eating disorders.

This proposal would certainly drum up business...

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 08:42 AM

70. He should be subjected to douchebag shaming.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 10:26 AM

74. Meh - telling that his example appeals only to shallow idiots isn't it?

"If you are overweight or obese, are you pleased with the way that you look?”

Look to whom? Look to achieve what purpose? Which truly great person in history achieved these things because of their "look"? What a fatuous nonsensical thing to give a shit about. I've been a bloated whale and I've been a chiselled athlete and obviously enough everywhere in betwen and I can guarantee my answer to that question would be the same at every stage: "who the fuck cares, and if they do, why should I care about them?"

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 10:51 AM

77. Is low self esteem more likely with obesity than with smoking?

That would be an important question to answer before embarking on some kind of campaign based on anti-smoking results. Because shaming absolutely doesn't work when low self esteem is involved. In fact it probably makes things worse.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 10:57 AM

78. oh fuck him.

and fuck low fat organic foods. low fat means more sugar or less taste.

plus, well, fuck him. how stupid do you have to be to realize that fat shaming has been with us since forever, and it doesn't work anyway.

what a maroon.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:29 AM

81. Yes, he is wrong.

Providing lower-income areas - with available and reasonably priced, nutritious food and safe areas for children and adults to participate in physical activity would do a lot more than 'shaming' (which is disgusting!). People don't choose to be obese - if the alternatives are there to prevent it ... they'll use them, imho.

Comparing obesity to smoking is just stupid.

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Response to Mosby (Reply #82)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:23 PM

98. How dare you suggest individuals have ANY control over their weight.

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Response to nobodyspecial (Reply #98)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 03:55 AM

144. You don't. What you have control over is eating and physical activity

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2336074?dopt=Abstract

This is a study of 12 twin pairs who were overfed by 1000 calories a day for 100 days. It clearly shows that calories in = calories out does not explain individual differences in fat deposition.

--The average gain was about 18 lbs (range = 9 lbs to 29 lbs), 2/3 of which was fat mass
--The twin pair that gained the least gained about 6.5 lbs of fat, and the twin pair that gained the most gained 19 lbs of fat
--The total number of calories overfed for all subjects was about 84,000.
--Not a single one of the subjects stored all of the extra calories as fat.
--The pair that gained the least stored 22,000 calories as fat.
--The pair that gained the most stored 68,000 calories as fat.
--Neither of these numbers is 84,000, so the notion that all calories you consume over what you “need” become fat is bullshit.
--Since energy balance has to account for the missing calories, something must have else happened to them.

What happened to them was solely dependent on genetic differences between the twin pairs, which were dramatic.

If the effects of overfeeding are so dramatically different for twin pairs, it is highly likely that underfeeding will demonstrate equally dramatic differences.

You can decide to eat less and exercise more, but you have absolutely no control over the effects these changes make on your body.

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Response to eridani (Reply #144)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 11:59 AM

149. Where did I argue that calories in equal calories out?

The amount of muscle, types of fiber and number of fat cells and location are all genetically determined before birth. All of this would account for differences in metabolism. You may not have any control over that, but you do have control over how much you eat and exercise. If you see you are gaining a lot of weight, then you have to do something different. You do have control over your actions.

And, yes, life's not fair. Some people can eat like crap and never gain weight while others need to be very, very careful.

And before you assume that I am just so smug because I never had issues, I'll let you know that I've been in a lifelong struggle with my weight. It's hard work and sometimes sucks but it can be done.

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Response to nobodyspecial (Reply #149)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 12:07 AM

161. The trouble is that "doing something" will not necessarily put you anywhere near "ideal" weight

It will merely make you healthier. However, that is just not enough for the weight Nazis like Callahan.

Lots of people would rather have a life, and therefore focus on healthier activities instead of weight

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:42 AM

83. would you like butter with that?



I predict great things for this thread.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:57 AM

87. I had some clown give me shit in the supermarket checkout about what I was buying.

told me it wasn't healthy to eat meat.
I told him I had a health tip for him too
"You'll live a lot longer if you keep your nose out of other people's business"

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #87)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:59 PM

121. excellent!!!

"You'll live a lot longer if you keep your nose out of other people's business"

yup.

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #87)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 01:02 PM

154. ...

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #87)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 01:36 PM

158. Great comeback for a lot of situations!

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:12 PM

94. its interesting research

 

to be sure. I think it is worth a try, in the interest of science. Obese people could volunteer and be paid for their time.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:14 PM

95. It has worked well for smoking

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Response to cthulu2016 (Reply #95)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:36 PM

138. Really? Perhaps someone should tell the President.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:16 PM

96. Maybe he could ask the fashion industry to use skinnier models



There is already an overabundance of fat-shaming in this culture, and not enough action on the causes of obesity, which are complex and multi-faceted.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:33 PM

102. Yes, it might cause some people to lose weight

And countless other fat people would commit suicide or withdraw from society all together.

Positive incentives is still the best way to go. Not "shaming".

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:34 PM

103. Negative reinforcement.

I don't think that works. I believe it actually causes people to eat even more to comfort themselves from the shame.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:35 PM

104. Here's a photo of that four-eyed gray-haired wrinkle-face Daniel Callahan



Hey, nice jowls, mole-face.


Just being helpful.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:09 PM

107. Walking is FREE and shoes are cheap. Walking is the BEST exercise for overweight people.You don't

need to eat organic to lose weight - that's just nonsense with no scientific basis whatsoever and you MADE IT UP.

Money is not a legitimate reason for fat people to remain fat.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:11 PM

108. Back when I was on a med that unbeknownst to me caused uncontrollable cravings...

... My primary doc would talk to me about losing weight. Diet. Exercise. All that. But the worst was my GYN, a woman, who told me flat out that she knew my internist and that he, like she, did not want to have patients who refused to take care of themselves.

Is that "shaming" enough for you, Dr. Callahan?

I was SO ashamed of myself for my loss of control. Up until my early 40s I was routinely told I looked at least 10 years younger than my actual age. But the inexorable weight gain took that and so much else from me.

It was not until 20 years had gone by that I was changed off that medication. It took a month or so of reduced dosages before the last one, but within 24 hours of it clearing my system I felt like a switch in my brain had been turned off. It was that dramatic and noticeable. The cravings left me.

But hey! I am now pre-diabetic. Arthritis of the knees is exacerbated. My personal metabolism is post-menopausal. Aaaaand, in that time the food industry put HFCS into everything.

I'm working at it, and I'll have to work at it the rest of my life. But I have to say that I am furious at the various doctors who had the information in front of them and put all the blame on me, personally.

PS: If Dr. Callahan wants to see fat-shaming, he should just visit DU and its archives.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #108)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 04:08 PM

132. Hell, Dr. Callahan would just need to visit this thread.

I agree with everything you said.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:16 PM

110. Shaming overweight people is stupid.

 

Most who are overweight are already self-conscious about it. Shaming them wont motivate them to lose weight. That being said, the whole "big is beautiful" movement is equally moronic. It just encourages an unhealthy lifestyle.

Losing weight isn't rocket science. Eat less calories than your body uses. It's that simple. No miracle diets needed. Unfortunately many people don't get this and instead just latch onto the latest, greatest miracle diet, which they try and then give up on since after 2 weeks they don't look like a model. Then they procede to justify their lack of determination by trying to convince themselves they are overweight due to some "Medical condition". Sorry but 90%+ of the people who are overweight are that way due to an unhealthy lifestyle.

If you're overweight, fixing it is fairly simple. Cut out junkfood, shrink down your proportions when you eat, and get some exercise. You don't have to spend 3 hours in the the gym, just go for a mile or two jog each day. If you can't jog, walk. If your body is using more calories than it takes in you will lose weight. End of discussion.

I know, I was chubby in high school. It took 2+ years of dieting and bodybuilding but I eventually got to where I was happy with my body.

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Response to justanidea (Reply #110)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 04:17 AM

145. You can't eat less than your body uses over long time periods

That's because if you eat less, your body adjusts to use less.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:18 PM

111. What we face

Dollar MenuYour stomach is empty – and so is your wallet. Good thing there's the Dollar Menu. Freshly-prepared faves, like the McDouble or a Sausage Biscuit, are a tasty way to fill up for less.

McDonald's McDouble - 390 calories, 23g protein, 19g fat for $1 (8 g saturated)

No way you can match this given the time needed to fix meals at home

I paid a $1.20 for two egg whites and salsa at my company's cafeteria - 8 grams of protein and about 50 caloires. Same price for two eggs and salsa which would be about 200 calories, 12 g of protein, 14g of fat (2 g saturated)

Healthy eating is hard and expensive.





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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:30 PM

114. The bioethicist is nuts, but why do you think weight loss needs to be expensive? nt

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:33 PM

115. If people want to be fat, I say let them.

Last edited Fri Jan 25, 2013, 03:07 PM - Edit history (3)

If you want to be unhealthy and live a shorter life, who am I to insist you change? However, I doubt there are many people who get up in the morning and say, "I sure am glad to be obese".

I expect there are plenty of people who aren't happy being obese, but just don't know how to go about changing it. Shaming won't do them any good, but neither will "fat acceptance". They just need information.

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Response to Marr (Reply #115)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 04:35 AM

147. No they don't--they have information

What they need is the time and motivation to make getting to and maintaining ideal weight the entire purpose of their lives. And no, losing 30 lbs or so is not going to turn really fat people into "normal" people.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 03:14 PM

123. Just one man but it worked for me

My family members told me I was fat and flat out mocked me when I showed up obese to a family vacation in 2007 (I had been battling depression and weight issues for the prior three years). It was definitely a tipping point for me. I was pissed as hell and felt ashamed and disgusted, so when I got back home I started jogging (all you need is a pair of sneakers) and completely revamped my diet - cut out the fast foods, fried foods, refined sugars, and started cooking all of my meals from scratch. No crash diet. Just limited my calorie intake to 2000/day. Once I reached 2000, no more food for the day. I ended up losing sixty pounds in just a few months. The best part was that my mental health ills basically went away with the weight and bad diet. Since then, I've kept the weight off and gotten myself into the fittest shape of my life - even ran my first marathon a few months back (and beat Paul Ryan).

Having said all that, a public shaming campaign could obviously do more harm than good, and I am in no way an advocate of such an approach. In my opinion, we need to keep increasing our education efforts to highlight the negative effects obesity has both financially and to quality of life.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 03:25 PM

125. Asshole-shaming may curb assholery, dawg says

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Response to dawg (Reply #125)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 04:16 PM

133. I wish it did

But apparently not

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:34 PM

137. And yet, my skinny uncle still dropped dead of a heart attack.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:41 PM

139. I actually kind of don't care how I look

If it bothers him, that's his problem.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:55 PM

141. Great. Just what we need . . .

Encouragement for rude and bullying behavior. Lovely.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:14 AM

143. Callahan is a complete fucking idiot. n/t

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:01 PM

150. What an idiot.



Why don't we put out more pix of anorexic models too- that'll help.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:09 PM

151. This is insane.

Anybody think fat people aren't already carrying around a weight of shame at least equal to their excess adipose poundage?

Anybody not think that their already activated shame, and often clinical depression, doesn't make it harder for them to lose weight?

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:16 PM

152. I've felt ashamed for years. It hasn't helped me, and I have only gotten larger.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:51 PM

153. Shaming of any kind is ineffective and often cruel.

It can have exactly the reverse effect than the one intended. It is just another form of bullying.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 01:09 PM

155. Given that there are multiple reasons for obesity rates...

...Callahan's idea is unhelpful as it is mean-spirited.

It's true that we have to change the culture, but that's been created out of, among other things, technology and the trend towards sedentary lifestyles.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 01:33 PM

157. Bullsh*t.

Some people have medical conditions.

Some people take medications that cause the weight gain.

Some people are genetically disposed to being "heavier".

That being said, yes, we need to promote better - cheaper nutritious foods, more exercise, more MEDICAL care.

We should re-institute COOKING the children's lunch in school with appropriate local VEGETABLES and cooked daily, fresh, and with care as opposed to the prepackaged reheated unhealthy GLOP that is supposed to pass for food. My youngest has never had a "school lunch" in his life. Put RECESS and elementary school supervised PE/Recess (the kids think it's recess, but it's really a PE class disguised as play) back into the school day. Make PE a FOUR YEAR part of high school, not one year. (A school sport can count, though.)

We need an initiative to TURN OFF THE TV and the gd VIDEO GAMES - lets shame THAT behaviour!!! - and get the kids back outside playing. Riding bikes, running, jumping, climbing, etc.

DO NOT SHAME PEOPLE BECAUSE OF THEIR WEIGHT! You might motivate some adults to get off their ass and to a gym, or start eating fewer chips and more veggies and join weight watchers - though honestly - does anyone here actually believe that FAT SHAMING ISN"T GOING ON EVERY SINGLE DAY???

This is beyond ridiculous. This "scholar" is a IDIOT who shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a school or public forum of any kind. He obviously has no freaking idea what he is blithering about.

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Response to fried eggs (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 02:51 PM

160. Wow! Just what I want more of in my life - more guilt trips

because of my weight. Am I overweight? Yes, I am. Do I know it? It's difficult not to notice, thanks. Does putting more guilt and shame on me because of how I look help me want to control my weight? No, it just makes me want to hide, disappear and to die. Yeah!!! I'll be dead and no thin person will need to look at me again. Of course the downside to that is that my non-working husband and my 10 year old daughter will be destitute, but, what the hell, I won't be around to upset some nice thin person with my large body. Hey, it's a win-win!

What an idiot this bioethicist is.

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