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Thu Jan 24, 2013, 06:32 PM

Biden to doomsday preppers: Shotguns are better than AR-15s in earthquakes

Vice President Joe Biden is trying to assure survivalists and those preparing for doomsday that they will still be able to protect themselves in case of disaster even if assault weapons are banned because shotguns are more effective weapons for defense.

During a Google Hangout discussion about gun control, YouTube video blogger Philip DeFranco asked the vice president why an assault weapons ban was necessary if the number of murders had gone down since the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act temporarily banning some military-style rifles expired in 2004.

“So what would you say to the people who say, yes, you are infringing on our rights, not for sporting or for hunting, but in California, everyone talks about the big earthquake or some terrible natural disaster as a last line of defense,” DeFranco wondered. “What would you say to those people?”

“A shotgun will keep you a lot safer — a double-barreled shotgun — than the assault weapons in somebody’s hands that doesn’t know how to use it, even one that does know how to use it,” Biden advised. “You know, it’s hard to use an assault weapon and hit something than it is a shotgun.”

“If you want to keep people away in an earthquake, buy some shotgun shells,” he added. “I’m must less concerned quite frankly about what you would call an assault weapon than I am about magazines and the number of rounds that can be held in a magazine.”

Raw Story (http://s.tt/1yUqA)

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Reply Biden to doomsday preppers: Shotguns are better than AR-15s in earthquakes (Original post)
Playinghardball Jan 2013 OP
ThoughtCriminal Jan 2013 #1
Lone_Star_Dem Jan 2013 #6
Bandit Jan 2013 #2
kestrel91316 Jan 2013 #15
NYC_SKP Jan 2013 #3
abelenkpe Jan 2013 #4
nick of time Jan 2013 #9
abelenkpe Jan 2013 #18
nick of time Jan 2013 #20
0rganism Jan 2013 #5
ThoughtCriminal Jan 2013 #7
backscatter712 Jan 2013 #31
sarisataka Jan 2013 #8
muriel_volestrangler Jan 2013 #10
msanthrope Jan 2013 #11
muriel_volestrangler Jan 2013 #29
msanthrope Jan 2013 #37
Travis_0004 Jan 2013 #13
muriel_volestrangler Jan 2013 #28
kestrel91316 Jan 2013 #16
Politicub Jan 2013 #12
sarisataka Jan 2013 #19
Politicub Jan 2013 #24
sarisataka Jan 2013 #38
ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #32
Politicub Jan 2013 #33
ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #34
ManiacJoe Jan 2013 #35
trof Jan 2013 #14
Fla_Democrat Jan 2013 #17
NickB79 Jan 2013 #21
lancer78 Jan 2013 #27
madville Jan 2013 #22
OneTenthofOnePercent Jan 2013 #23
NightWatcher Jan 2013 #25
Deep13 Jan 2013 #26
LiberalElite Jan 2013 #30
aikoaiko Jan 2013 #36
Odin2005 Jan 2013 #39
lpbk2713 Jan 2013 #40
NickB79 Jan 2013 #41

Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 06:34 PM

1. Neither is the right choice for Giant Asteroid Impacts


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Response to ThoughtCriminal (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 06:46 PM

6. Finally a disaster I'm well armed against!

I have several hundred of those babies on hand at the moment. Bring on the giant asteroids!

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 06:39 PM

2. Rifles are for shooting something far away from you

Shotguns are for close range which home defense is... A pistol would also be better than a rifle for close quarters however in very close quarters nothing can beat the old 12 guage...

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Response to Bandit (Reply #2)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 07:42 PM

15. Rifles are for hunting: animals, or humans. They are for snipers aka murderers.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 06:42 PM

3. The people who want high capacity, high powered weapons are just a little off kilter.

I agree with Joe.

The likelihood that something like an AR15 or AK will really make a difference to survival is very small and fits a post-apocalyptic WW3 scene, not natural disaster or home defense.

Their weapons of war, not weapons of defense, even under prepper scenarios.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 06:43 PM

4. During the northridge quake we packed as much stuff as we could into my

car and drove to a friends house since our place was tagged as uninhabitable. My car was a soft top convertible and at night I caught three guys, one with a knife trying to cut out the back window and steal our stuff. I yelled and chased them away. After a couple blocks I returned to my car and my boyfriend (now my hubby) asked me what I was doing chasing a bunch of thieves down a dark alley all by myself. What? It worked for Han Solo...



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Response to abelenkpe (Reply #4)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 07:20 PM

9. I grew up in Northridge

 

across from Cal State Northridge, but at the time it was called San Fenando Valley State College.
We lived on Balcom Av. right off of Nordoff St., I was visiting my mom when the earthquake hit.

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Response to nick of time (Reply #9)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 08:02 PM

18. Wow!

You were at the very center of that horrible quake. I was at Cal Arts at the time. The school was wrecked, our apartment too. I hope you and your family were OK!

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Response to abelenkpe (Reply #18)


Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 06:45 PM

5. which is more effective for the zombie apocalypse?

i'm tempted to go with "flame thrower", but they're practically useless for home defense...

We need a well-researched, tabular breakdown of optimal weapons for various doomsday scenarios.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 06:59 PM

7. The Only Weapon You Will EVER Need

CAT GUN!


Belt Fed!

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Response to ThoughtCriminal (Reply #7)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:25 PM

31. Adam West likes your style!

(though I'm having trouble finding a high quality Youtube video of Adam and his cat launcher - the copyright Gestapo must have taken them down.)

Oh well, we make do...

http://www.220.ro/desene-animate/Family-Guy-Adam-West-S-Cat-Launcher/xs8KeAcAez/

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 07:01 PM

8. In an earthquake

I would prefer a helmet to any gun. I can sort out the details after I get out of the rubble.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 07:21 PM

10. Do any other people think "how can I kill someone after a natural disaster"?

I just can't think of any other country that has some people whose concern for earthquakes, hurricanes or whatever is "how can I finish of some of my desperate fellow survivors". Has it ever actually happened in the USA? Did people turn on each other after the 1906 SF earthquake, for instance? There was the case of the New Orleans police officers killing 2 people, but, apart from them, is turning to a state of murderous violence something that has happened?

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #10)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 07:27 PM

11. You'd best start thinking about how you'll survive the zombie apocalypse. nt

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #11)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:21 PM

29. I'll stick with a lawnmower

If it's good enough for the Hobbit Master, it's good enough for me. Plus you can use it to cut grass when there aren't any zombies around.

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #29)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 11:09 PM

37. Have you played Plants vs. Zombies? You might like it. nt

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #10)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 07:34 PM

13. I do think crime goes up after a natural disaster.

I'm not opposed to somebody defending their house from an intruder, especially in times when police are overwhelmed and may not respond for a few hours.

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Response to Travis_0004 (Reply #13)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:19 PM

28. It'd be interesting to see some American and non-American stats on it

When you read reports of natural disasters outside the USA, it doesn't seem to be much about people robbing each other, breaking into homes, and so on. People seem to concentrate more on helping each other. And, to be fair, that's the impression I generally get of disasters in the USA too. But if your impression, from, I take it, inside the USA, is that Americans have a tendency to attack each other, then I yield to your closer knowledge.

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #10)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 07:44 PM

16. Hell, I went through Northridge and I never do. I was too busy fretting about how I was

going to stave off the creditors after so many of my clients fled town.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 07:34 PM

12. He's right, of course

AR 15s and firearms like them have one purpose - to kill a lot of whatever it is you're shooting at (people, etc.) or slow down a zombie onslaught. Not really home protection.

If you really are serious about home protection, a shotgun is the way to go since you just need to point it vaguely in the direction of whatever you want to hit.

I've learned more than I would ever want to know about guns because of the Newtown tragedy. And the more I learn the more my blood boils that people actually oppose banning assault weapons and high capacity magazines.

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Response to Politicub (Reply #12)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 08:06 PM

19. Hollywood myth 273.9

you can't miss with a shotgun

Some misconceptions may exist regarding the spread of shotgun pellets or balls. It is not enough to merely point the shotgun in the general direction of an assailant and let fly. Birdshot or buckshot does not create a huge cone of death and destruction that devastates everything in its path. Rather, for a defense or "riot" shotgun with an 18- to 20-inch cylinder or improved cylinder choked barrel, the pellets will spread out about one inch for every yard of range traveled. Across a large room of 18 feet or so, the spread will only be about 6 inches, a circle as big as a coffee cup saucer. At 50 feet, the spread will only be about 16 inches, the size of a large pizza. It is obvious from these patterns that a shotgun blast will not incapacitate multiple assailants at close range. Each would have to be given "individual attention".

However:
The shotgun must be skillfully aimed and fired. Aiming is just not quite as precise as that required for a handgun or rifle to score multiple hits on an aggressor. The massive firepower of the shotgun will likely produce a favorable outcome in any self defense encounter.

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #19)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:12 PM

24. Well okay then

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Response to Politicub (Reply #24)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 11:31 PM

38. No worries

I like to help people out. I wouldn't want someone to say something silly like a shotgun will hit anything that is thataway without knowing such a statement is untrue. It would be like saying a Kia can go over 200mph; it probably can if dropped from an airplane.

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Response to Politicub (Reply #12)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:46 PM

32. He is wrong, of course, as are you

Shotguns do not spread at household ranges, your "point it vaguely in the direction of whatever you want to hit. " is nonsense

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #32)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:58 PM

33. You have no idea what you're talking about

The trait of gun nuts... excuse me, enthusiast, that is annoying above all is the know it all attitude.

You can get more out of a discussion with the computer program Eliza than engaging in a gun thread.

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Response to Politicub (Reply #33)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 10:02 PM

34. A while back I posted photos of test shots that demonstrated that you are quite wrong

Be glad to do it again if you would like to see how low the spread from shotguns is at household ranges. That includes 00 Buck or bird shot.

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Response to Politicub (Reply #33)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 10:13 PM

35. ProgressiveProfessor knows more about this than you.

At least according to your post.

The average spread of 12 gauge 00 buck shot from an 18 inch barrel is one inch per yard traveled. Longer barrels mean less spread.
Your 20 foot room will give you a spread of about 7 inches.
Your 75 foot house will give you about 25 inches, the average width of a person.

Contrary to what Hollywood would have you believe, shotguns do need to be aimed, not pointed, if you want to hit your target.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 07:38 PM

14. "a double-barreled shotgun"? Naw, a slide action.

A double barrel gives you only two shots.
A slide action gives you at least three plus the sound of the slide snicking back and forth is SO intimidating.

Wait...why are we talking about this?

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 07:56 PM

17. Well, of course. that's what Mad Max had.



Of course, Lord Humongous, did have the .44 magnum. Seem to recall it doing more damage to the truck, than Max's double barrel did to Lord Humongous.








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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 08:41 PM

21. I'll trade my AR-15 for a shotgun, no problem

So long as I get to have one of these when it comes time to stop the looters and rioters: http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/shotguns/ksg/

If loaded with short Centurion or Aquila shells, you could theoretically hold 20 rounds of 12-gauge buckshot in one gun!

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Response to NickB79 (Reply #21)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:19 PM

27. Uh oh

Holds more then 10 rounds. It needs to be banned!


<sarcasm>

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 08:41 PM

22. If AR-15's and high capacity magazines are these powerful death machines

Doesn't that make them a better choice for some survival or defense situations? The idea that a less effective weapon would be a superior choice in every scenario doesn't make much sense. Any weapon could be a hindrance or advantageous depending on the scenario.

I do agree that a shotgun would be a good all around single weapon for an inexperienced user. I have a Remington 870 12 gauge with a magazine extension so it can hold 7 rounds, they can be quite accurate, especially with rifled slugs.

Of course the correct answer is "Have both" then your weapon choice can be tailored to the situation. Truck full of looters coming up the road to the house, grab the assault weapon, looters trying to crawl into the house through some windows, grab the shotgun. Of course you could always have your handgun on your hip for a backup gun.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 08:58 PM

23. Perhaps he should urge National Gaurd to deploy to disaster areas with Dbl Barrel shotguns...

 

Last edited Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:48 PM - Edit history (1)

A shotgun will keep you a lot safer — a double-barreled shotgun — than the assault weapons in somebody’s hands that doesn’t know how to use it, even one that does know how to use it,” Biden advised. “You know, it’s hard to use an assault weapon and hit something than it is a shotgun.”



No Joe... that's silly. Any gun in the hands of an ignorant person is extremely dangerous. And at self-defense distances, a shotgun is pretty much king-of-the-hill in destructive power. I don't see how the AR15 is somehow safer. And you still have to "aim" a shotgun accurately to hit anything... even at 20 yards, a cylinder bore buckshot shot pattern may only spread about a 12" or so - so careful aiming is STILL required. Real world is not hollywood, Joe.

Personally, I would use my shotgun (a Pump Action Shotgun) and not because of Joe's silly reasons above. I'd use my pump action because it's handier than an AR15, pump action is more reliable and it has way more firepower; it's about 1 pound lighter than an AR, 7" shorter, and holds 15 rounds of 12ga 00B (9 pellets per shot). But if I didn't have my shotgun available, I'd have no problem using an AK or MAC11 or something. Then again, my home is in an Ohio suburb... hardly an area with significant disaster risk.

12ga Pump Shotgun (left), 50 round P90s (center), 16" AR15 Carbine (right)

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:15 PM

25. A shotgun is deadly at very close range, AR's have more reach

Why not keep both on hand....if you're doomsday prepping?

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:19 PM

26. False.

An AR15 is more accurate, has greater range, holds more rounds on-board, and allows the user to carry more rounds due to weight.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:22 PM

30. Admittedly I'm not in earthquake country

although we in NYC have had a few minor tremors over the years - but I would never have thought of having a weapon in my go bag in case the tectonic plates across the Hudson River in New Jersey shifted. I guess that's just me.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 10:21 PM

36. Joe, you're free to have your double-barreled shotgun, but I'll keep my AR15.


Thank you very much.

Actually, I have a shotgun, too.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 11:49 PM

39. Joe never fails to kick ass!

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:37 AM

40. Another Vice Presidential endorsement of shotguns ...





Dick Cheney says they work real well on lawyers ... especially after a couple of beers.


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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 09:33 PM

41. But where does he stand on hunting wascally wabbits?

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