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Wed Jan 23, 2013, 11:09 PM

We Ladies are now in the FIGHT!!!!!

We are now in combat! Al Qaeda and the Taliban won't know what hit them!
We have come so far from the time we couldn't even own property!

155 replies, 8103 views

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Arrow 155 replies Author Time Post
Reply We Ladies are now in the FIGHT!!!!! (Original post)
Lady Freedom Returns Jan 2013 OP
liberalmuse Jan 2013 #1
Lady Freedom Returns Jan 2013 #2
CherokeeDem Jan 2013 #4
Whisp Jan 2013 #5
SunSeeker Jan 2013 #7
WinkyDink Jan 2013 #73
SunSeeker Jan 2013 #76
Bake Jan 2013 #127
Lady Freedom Returns Jan 2013 #10
Whisp Jan 2013 #12
Tx4obama Jan 2013 #15
Whisp Jan 2013 #57
Lady Freedom Returns Jan 2013 #17
SQUEE Jan 2013 #94
CreekDog Jan 2013 #115
SQUEE Jan 2013 #118
Cha Jan 2013 #43
southernyankeebelle Jan 2013 #80
SunSeeker Jan 2013 #6
Tx4obama Jan 2013 #9
seabeyond Jan 2013 #11
Whisp Jan 2013 #13
actslikeacarrot Jan 2013 #60
Sissyk Jan 2013 #66
NCTraveler Jan 2013 #68
Lone_Star_Dem Jan 2013 #92
Gormy Cuss Jan 2013 #98
backwoodsbob Jan 2013 #154
Tx4obama Jan 2013 #3
seabeyond Jan 2013 #8
lonestarnot Jan 2013 #14
seabeyond Jan 2013 #16
lonestarnot Jan 2013 #19
seabeyond Jan 2013 #23
lonestarnot Jan 2013 #24
Lady Freedom Returns Jan 2013 #21
pinboy3niner Jan 2013 #27
Bucky Jan 2013 #78
seabeyond Jan 2013 #79
pinboy3niner Jan 2013 #18
Lady Freedom Returns Jan 2013 #20
pinboy3niner Jan 2013 #22
Lady Freedom Returns Jan 2013 #25
Warpy Jan 2013 #26
Lady Freedom Returns Jan 2013 #29
Aviation Pro Jan 2013 #28
Lady Freedom Returns Jan 2013 #32
pinboy3niner Jan 2013 #33
La Lioness Priyanka Jan 2013 #122
Sissyk Jan 2013 #125
eShirl Jan 2013 #46
OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #56
datasuspect Jan 2013 #61
CreekDog Jan 2013 #111
datasuspect Jan 2013 #140
CreekDog Jan 2013 #142
datasuspect Jan 2013 #143
DevonRex Jan 2013 #132
eShirl Jan 2013 #134
datasuspect Jan 2013 #141
Lady Freedom Returns Jan 2013 #149
CreekDog Jan 2013 #112
CreekDog Jan 2013 #116
Aviation Pro Jan 2013 #117
CreekDog Jan 2013 #120
DevonRex Jan 2013 #131
kickysnana Jan 2013 #30
agent46 Jan 2013 #31
MrSlayer Jan 2013 #34
TwilightGardener Jan 2013 #35
MrSlayer Jan 2013 #44
eShirl Jan 2013 #48
TwilightGardener Jan 2013 #64
MrSlayer Jan 2013 #83
TwilightGardener Jan 2013 #85
MrSlayer Jan 2013 #90
TwilightGardener Jan 2013 #100
MrSlayer Jan 2013 #104
NYC Liberal Jan 2013 #69
MrSlayer Jan 2013 #87
SQUEE Jan 2013 #144
WinkyDink Jan 2013 #53
TwilightGardener Jan 2013 #63
WinkyDink Jan 2013 #74
Lady Freedom Returns Jan 2013 #36
SQUEE Jan 2013 #96
Lady Freedom Returns Jan 2013 #114
SQUEE Jan 2013 #119
eShirl Jan 2013 #47
MrSlayer Jan 2013 #49
WinkyDink Jan 2013 #75
Arctic Dave Jan 2013 #37
Lady Freedom Returns Jan 2013 #38
Luminous Animal Jan 2013 #42
WinkyDink Jan 2013 #54
Lady Freedom Returns Jan 2013 #91
Arctic Dave Jan 2013 #72
sibelian Jan 2013 #82
Glassunion Jan 2013 #39
ReRe Jan 2013 #40
Luminous Animal Jan 2013 #41
eShirl Jan 2013 #50
Jamastiene Jan 2013 #45
TM99 Jan 2013 #55
Confusious Jan 2013 #138
TM99 Jan 2013 #51
regjoe Jan 2013 #58
TM99 Jan 2013 #59
regjoe Jan 2013 #62
TM99 Jan 2013 #70
CreekDog Jan 2013 #110
TM99 Jan 2013 #135
Gormy Cuss Jan 2013 #101
obamanut2012 Jan 2013 #107
TM99 Jan 2013 #137
WinkyDink Jan 2013 #52
Aviation Pro Jan 2013 #65
Earth_First Jan 2013 #67
lolwat Jan 2013 #71
CreekDog Jan 2013 #109
B2G Jan 2013 #77
Crepuscular Jan 2013 #81
jwirr Jan 2013 #84
Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2013 #86
smirkymonkey Jan 2013 #128
RandiFan1290 Jan 2013 #88
Arugula Latte Jan 2013 #146
marlakay Jan 2013 #89
white_wolf Jan 2013 #93
CreekDog Jan 2013 #108
kentuck Jan 2013 #95
pinboy3niner Jan 2013 #97
Auntie Bush Jan 2013 #99
Raine1967 Jan 2013 #103
Auntie Bush Jan 2013 #102
Lady Freedom Returns Jan 2013 #121
HockeyMom Jan 2013 #105
Auntie Bush Jan 2013 #113
HockeyMom Jan 2013 #124
DFab420 Jan 2013 #106
madville Jan 2013 #123
HockeyMom Jan 2013 #126
auntsue Jan 2013 #129
pinboy3niner Jan 2013 #130
TM99 Jan 2013 #139
auntsue Jan 2013 #152
TM99 Jan 2013 #153
LittleBlue Jan 2013 #133
RetroGamer1971 Jan 2013 #136
ZombieHorde Jan 2013 #145
Whisp Jan 2013 #147
Lady Freedom Returns Jan 2013 #151
OldEurope Jan 2013 #148
Lady Freedom Returns Jan 2013 #150
whatchamacallit Jan 2013 #155

Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Original post)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 11:22 PM

1. It's a win-win situation.

Some of our "randier" soldiers will have even more women to rape in the war theater (I guess you can tell I was in the military). Why just have young, poor men die in wars that rich old men start? Now they can throw women into the mix and zip them up in body bags, too. Yeah - as much as I feel women are no less human beings than men, I'd rather we get equal pay and stop being blamed for our own rapes instead of the wonderful gift of being able to die in battle.

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Response to liberalmuse (Reply #1)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 11:29 PM

2. Look! Not all male solders are like that and painting them...

like that is as disgraceful as what is being done to us STILL by the Conservative/Republican Party!
We women are just as capable to fight for our country as a man. We deserve that chance.We deserve to be equal to a man. So go rain on somebody else's parade!

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #2)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 11:39 PM

4. Hear! Hear!

Women do deserve the chance to be equal to men, and it's about time that combat opportunities are available to women. Do I want anyone to go to war? No. Do I want women to serve equally with men if there is a war? Absolutely.

If I was taller than 5'1" and could carry 160 lbs of human...I'd be doing my dream job...I'd be a firefighter.

Go Ladies who can!!!

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #2)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 11:39 PM

5. I have a very hard question for you.

 

was the illegal Iraq war really fighting for your country?

I think it was fighting for something else by what we knew/know now.

I find your cheering at the thought of horrible combat for anyone really creepy. It's not a sports event.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #5)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 11:43 PM

7. If you disagree with a war, disagree with the war, not with women's right to fight.

It is a tragedy and an outrage to send ANYONE, man or women, to a unjustified war. That has nothing to do with whether women should be allowed in combat.

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #7)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 01:31 PM

73. "Right to fight"? Is that like a homeless person's "freedom"?

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #73)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 01:37 PM

76. No. A women who joins the military should be able to do whatever job she is capable of.

And homeless people are not free. They are not free from fear, hunger and illness. That is not freedom. It is simply lack of the right to food and shelter. Like the lack of the right to be eligible for a job you are capable of doing.

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #73)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 06:45 PM

127. Reminds me of Kristofferson ...

"Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose ..."



Bake

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Response to Whisp (Reply #5)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 11:48 PM

10. Did you ever hear a man tell you that "till...

women can fight and I mean really fight for this country, you will never really be an equal. And no woman can really fight in war anyway."

I did, a lot growing up in Conservative Joplin MO. I'm not the only woman that has been"put in her place" do to that argument. This has now taken that argument off the table. We have finally proven ourselves enough to the Establishment that we are now equal in a way that cancels that argument!

If you can sit there and be so sour to the fact we just crossed this barrier is really creepy!

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #10)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 11:55 PM

12. I don't believe this will equalize anything for women

 

except the bodies coming home.

There will Always be excuses that we are 'less than' and going to war and playing tough guy is not going to change anything. Someone mentioned military rape upthread and that is a real ugly and definite fact that it happens even more than in civ life. I say when we get all the rest of the shit together and treat women as real equals FIRST, then it is fair to send them to wars. It's all ack basswards now.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #12)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 11:58 PM

15. It will equalize 'pay and promotions'. See comment #9. n/t

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Response to Tx4obama (Reply #15)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:10 AM

57. I did see that. And that is what it should have been and should be.

 

For women who chose to go in the military there is and was no reason why they shouldn't get equal pay. I think we can all agree on that.

I'm thinking more along the lines of when (not if) the PNACers get in power again and lie their way into another catastrophic war. When there could be a possible draft. Where will all the children go?

I'll have to read more on this, more opinions from all sides before I really can make one myself. This is just a immediate reaction. There is a war against women right here every day and if that one can't be won by fairness and understanding then I have great doubts that putting a gun in a woman's hand to kill the enemy of the state is going to solve anything.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #12)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 12:03 AM

17. And all of it is the reason we MUST keep..

fighting to be equal in ALL ways. If not it will never change . We Must be equal in the good and bad. The more we get in there the less they have to point out how less we are.

I say ! Let's Saddle Up!

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #17)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 03:33 PM

94. Are you going to your recruiter?

Sign up for 11 series, get back to me when you come home, if you come home.

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Response to SQUEE (Reply #94)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 04:57 PM

115. are you harassing that poster because she is aggreeing with this decision by the Pentagon?

and are you posting sexist things towards her suggesting what she can or cannot do based on her gender?

this is DU.

that's not ok.

what you're doing is encouraging discrimination and doing so using explicit posts supporting sexist stereotypes.

you can't do that when it comes to racial differences here.

you can't do that when it comes to sexual orientation here.

and you can't do that when it comes to gender differences here.

wake up. it's the 21st century. you've had 13 years to not be a conservative on this issue.

what's the problem?

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #115)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 05:05 PM

118. sexist because i asked if she is willing to go "enjoy" her victory?

Discrimination, really how so?

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #2)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 02:22 AM

43. Yes, I take it that Women in the Military wanted this..

It's not just the Obama Admin forcing them to the front lines.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #2)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 01:46 PM

80. Kudo to you. Now you will have the opportunity to die on the field of battle. Whoooo Hoooo

 

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Response to liberalmuse (Reply #1)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 11:39 PM

6. Women die in war whether they are allowed to fight or not.

So let them fight. It's their decision as it is any man's. No more barriers. All this bullshit "no women in combat" did was make women second class women in the military, not allowing their advancement. They still died, just were denied the recognition they deserved.

If you disagree with a war, disagree with the war, not with women's right to fight the same as any man.

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Response to liberalmuse (Reply #1)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 11:46 PM

9. What Panetta is doing is much more than what is being talked about ...


The women in the past that have been in combat zones and those that are actually currently in combat zones do not get the same pay as the men that are in the same places - because the rules do not allow them to be 'classified' as being in combat.

It is a great thing that this rule is being changed so that women get the equal pay they deserve,
and also this will affect 'promotions' to - many promotions in the military are based on if you've been in a combat zone or not.
Many female members of the military will no longer be discriminated against due to not having a combat zone classification/experience under their belts.

A good day today for our female gender


p.s. I hope I typed the above text out clearly - I heard it on the TV box a couple of months ago.


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Response to Tx4obama (Reply #9)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 11:50 PM

11. excellent post. thank you tx4. nt

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Response to Tx4obama (Reply #9)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 11:57 PM

13. thanks for that info, Tx.

 

yes, that does make it sound fair and reasonable that way.

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Response to Tx4obama (Reply #9)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:51 AM

60. the real distinction...

...is if a female service member was killed in action it would be said she died "in support of" combat operations instead of just in combat operations, even though she would have the combat action ribbon and purple heart. So I'm glad to see that crap go away.

But everyone in country gets hostile fire pay and imminent danger pay, no matter your MOS or gender.

And promotions are based off many things, not just being in combat. For Marines its time in service, MCI's and pros and cons. For the Navy its all about your eval, and how well you do on your test.

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Response to Tx4obama (Reply #9)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 10:04 AM

66. Yes! Thank you!

Getting paid equally for what you do. This is what feminist have pushed for for decades.

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Response to Tx4obama (Reply #9)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 10:05 AM

68. I was somewhat torn on this until I read your post.

Thank you for educating me. Your point is excellent and should have probably been obvious to me. It was not.

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Response to Tx4obama (Reply #9)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 03:08 PM

92. Excellent post!

This is exactly the reason women in the military have been fighting for this.

It's a step toward true equality for women not just in the military, but all American women.

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Response to liberalmuse (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 03:44 PM

98. Or maybe it will start a change in the culture within our military.

I don't want anyone sent into combat but I'll be damned if I'd support keeping women out based solely on gender. The rape argument is similar to that which was used to keep women out of many traditionally male roles. Turns out that the more women are respected as equals, the less likely such "randy" behavior is tolerated.

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Response to liberalmuse (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 02:11 AM

154. I started to make a long response to this

and realized it wasn't worth it.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Original post)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 11:36 PM

3. Kick! n/t

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Original post)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 11:44 PM

8. then surely we can drop ladies and be women, while carrying guns and killing, lol.

lady hardly seems appropriate.

just saying, lady. lol

love the video.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #8)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 11:57 PM

14. I disagree! Still ladies!

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Response to lonestarnot (Reply #14)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 12:01 AM

16. ah, so we will be sure to cross our legs properly and of course the men fighting will be

gentlemen and hold the door open.

geez.

really. being a woman is great.

do you call the men soldiers gentlemen? cause we are talking equal here.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #16)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 12:17 AM

19. Yes, ladies and gentlemen.

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Response to lonestarnot (Reply #19)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 12:25 AM

23. come on. we do not call our men in battle gentleman.

i am not way into being called a lady. but i would think at the very least, being a fighting machine, that would be one place i would get to be a woman, and not a lady.

anyway. not a battle i want. thought i would state an obvious. guess not so much.

night.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #23)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 12:29 AM

24. Goodnight oh

and goodluck

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #8)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 12:20 AM

21. I fount that video last night.

Talk about timing!

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #8)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 12:40 AM

27. If they knew you, seabeyond, it would be a different story!


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Response to seabeyond (Reply #8)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 01:39 PM

78. No, you shouldn't drop ladies. Well, not unless they're paratroopers.

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Response to Bucky (Reply #78)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 01:42 PM

79. ha ha ha. ya, didnt even have to finish reading before

i knew... just knew, lol.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 12:06 AM

18. You ladies have already been in the fight

Fighting and dying with little acknowledgement. My local Army NG company--commanded by a woman--recently returned from Afghanistan. They had 1 KIA and several WIAs. They could have easily been the women in the unit.

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Response to pinboy3niner (Reply #18)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 12:17 AM

20. But now we can be, as stated by Tx4obama, classified as being in combat.

Tx4obama in post #9 states it the best.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #20)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 12:22 AM

22. But more important than equal pay is equal opportunity

That's the real breakthrough.

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Response to pinboy3niner (Reply #22)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 12:30 AM

25. Yes it is!

Last edited Thu Jan 24, 2013, 01:12 AM - Edit history (1)

And this is a start in many directions!
As I have stated in another post up above, many women have been "put in their place' time and time again due to women not being allowed to be in combat. This is the end of that argument!

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 12:37 AM

26. We've been in the fight for a long time

They're finally going to start paying us accordingly.

Well, unless we're outside the military. Then it's still 70 cents on the dollar.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #26)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 12:45 AM

29. Let's take this victory and use the momentum!

Keep pushing, keep shoving! We can win!
Many thought this day wouldn't come.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 12:44 AM

28. Pardon me?

But you are not in combat. Let me know when you complete a 12-mile ruck march in four hours with 100 lbs of lightweight gear on your back, a weapon, full body armor and ammo.

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Response to Aviation Pro (Reply #28)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 12:54 AM

32. There are women that can do that!

And they deserve to have the same pay as a guy that does the same thing!
We women also deserve the right to defend this country in combat just like a man.

Are you saying that the women that can and do do it can not have the same pay?
Are you saying that women can not defend this country as well as a man?


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Response to Aviation Pro (Reply #28)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 01:02 AM

33. Pardon me?

Women will do that. Those who measure up will do a hell of a lot better than the guy I had to have extracted from the field in VN because he couldn't cut it.

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Response to pinboy3niner (Reply #33)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 05:26 PM

122. what's with all the pardon me's?

are you hard of hearing/reading?

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Reply #122)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 06:34 PM

125. lol!

That struck my funny bone.

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Response to Aviation Pro (Reply #28)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 04:22 AM

46. like men, women will train for it

and I'm guessing women already are, and already have, even if they are banned from some positions that require it
http://www.military.com/military-fitness/army-workouts/training-for-ruck-marches

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Response to Aviation Pro (Reply #28)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 08:52 AM

56. You might want to read this 2011 article from the NY Times.....

For Soldiers, Death Sees No Gender Lines

QUOTES:

Servicewomen have died in all of America’s wars, but usually they were support personnel such as nurses and clerks. In Afghanistan, most women who have died were killed in combat situations, as Specialist Snyder was, despite the military’s official prohibition on women in combat jobs.

The same has been true in Iraq, where 111 female soldiers have died, according to data compiled by icasualties.org, an independent organization that tracks military fatalities. In both wars, 60 percent of those deaths are classified by the military as due to hostile acts.


According to icasualties.org, 45 servicewomen have now died in Afghanistan, mostly due to IED and hostile fire.

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Response to Aviation Pro (Reply #28)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:56 AM

61. or have to carry a 250 lb wounded male soldier to safety.

 

on your back/across your shoulders.

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Response to datasuspect (Reply #61)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 04:48 PM

111. are you posting sexism?

really?

i mean really?

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #111)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 09:56 AM

140. yes really

 

really.

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Response to datasuspect (Reply #140)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 10:02 AM

142. remember when your account was banned for offensive posts?

and now you're saying that you actually did intend to post sexist comments.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #142)


Response to datasuspect (Reply #61)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:30 PM

132. let me know when that's easy for a man.

I'm a female veteran. Everything I learned about carrying fallen comrades was in the federal government. The Army could learn a thing or two from them.

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Response to datasuspect (Reply #61)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:48 PM

134. Why not?

That's quite doable.

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Response to eShirl (Reply #134)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 09:57 AM

141. maybe not so much

 

but thanks for playing.

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Response to datasuspect (Reply #61)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:58 PM

149. I carried a man about 135 roughly half a block while in shock.

I HATE reliving these memories, but to defend the Women in Green I will.

It was May 22, 2011. It was a night of hell. He had a piece of wood stuck in his leg. There was a truck that was half a block away that was trying to get people to Freeman Hospital. He could not make it. I could not leave him. Something in could not leave him. It hurt like hell since I had no training in lifting a person, heavy shoulder cameras yes, but not people. But I got him up and to the truck before it took off.

I did not/do not have the same training that the women that are and will be going into combat will have. They will be more than capable to take on what needs to be done.

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Response to Aviation Pro (Reply #28)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 04:50 PM

112. are you saying women can't?

wow. apparently liberal DUers have one issue where they can be neandertals.

women.

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Response to Aviation Pro (Reply #28)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 05:00 PM

116. let me know when you've carried a baby for 9 months

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #116)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 05:01 PM

117. Not germane

Go to the other thread on this topic, it's the other top one.

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Response to Aviation Pro (Reply #117)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 05:15 PM

120. yes, your OP is so bad that it's in Meta

as a WTF example of sexism that isn't appropriate on DU.

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Response to Aviation Pro (Reply #28)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:25 PM

131. Let me know when we use the Way Back Machine

and there's 2 shits difference between front lines and support operations anymore. This ain't bows and arrows, sport.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 12:50 AM

30. Was at Ft McClellan, AL in 1971 when this was coming to a head...

(Gosh can it be that long ago?)

The arguments of those who wanted equality including in the military changed my mind about women in combat. I still am anti-draft barring an invasion but if women want to volunteer. Good on them. They have earned the right 42 years over.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Original post)


Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 01:04 AM

34. It's bad when our male soldiers get captured.

 

Having our women captured would be a thing of nightmares. Particularly in these ultra barbaric Islamic countries.

It was with very good reason that Russian soldiers carried cyanide in Afghanistan.

I don't really see this as a cause for celebration.

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Response to MrSlayer (Reply #34)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 01:07 AM

35. I don't know why women are somehow "specialer" than men, that they need

extra protection and consideration.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #35)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 03:41 AM

44. Look at what they do to their own women.

 

Honor gang rapes, ritualistic mutilation, torture unto death for the slightest transgression. And they do these things to people they're supposed to care about.

They'll torture and kill our boys but they most likely aren't going to rape them to the point of incontinence or trade them as sex slaves first.

Call it my male privilege, call it an archaic code of chivalry, call it whatever but I just don't think it's right to expose women to that sort of risk.

I'm definitely not saying they cannot handle the job otherwise. Hell, women are proving to be better shooters than men. I'm just saying I think it's worse for a woman to be captured than for a man. It doesn't sit well with me.

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Response to MrSlayer (Reply #44)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 04:38 AM

48. Chivalry is just another cage.

the pedestal is just another tower for Rapunzel

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Response to MrSlayer (Reply #44)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 10:01 AM

64. You don't get to decide for us what sort of risks we should take, fortunately.

We are not children to be protected.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #64)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 02:32 PM

83. No, I don't.

 

Nor did I ever claim to.

But I am entitled to my opinion.

The first time this happens, it's not going to be pretty.

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Response to MrSlayer (Reply #83)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 02:41 PM

85. Violence, pain, and suffering are awful no matter which gender is involved.

Women do not somehow suffer a higher degree of pain, trauma, or fear than men in any given bad situation. Having lady parts changes nothing--unless you either put women on a pedestal or think of them as inferior. Either way, it's all you.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #85)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 02:53 PM

90. If you say so.

 

I guarantee you the enemy will not see it that way. The women will be subjected to horrors that men will generally be spared. I don't think anyone will deny that.

We can always hope it never gets put to the test I guess.

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Response to MrSlayer (Reply #90)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 03:51 PM

100. Men haven't been spared any type of trauma, including rape.

Women aren't to be kept back from things they can and want to do because YOU or anyone else has decided FOR THEM that the "horrors" they face are too much for them to bear.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #100)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 04:19 PM

104. Agreed.

 

Everyone should be able to do whatever they want and war is ugly for everyone. No doubt.

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Response to MrSlayer (Reply #44)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 10:08 AM

69. How about we allow women to decide what risks they want to take…just like

we allow men?

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Response to NYC Liberal (Reply #69)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 02:42 PM

87. That is what is going to happen.

 

Doesn't really matter what I or others say. Just expressing my opinion.

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Response to NYC Liberal (Reply #69)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 10:32 AM

144. And we can also allow an infantryman not to risk being left with a partner that can't ruck a

full load out, day in, day out for months on end. Allow the grunts to vote.
I am in agreement all the other arguments are not germaine. No one goes in mentally prepared for all that it takes, it is training and indoctrination that creates a modern grunt.

But that does not take away the fact that Nature, or God has seen to it we have physical differences. The physical requirements we have for our combat arms are not arbitrary nor random. The simple and unfair truth is the median female does not have the physical strength and endurance the median male does in the areas that are necessary to wage war as we do.
The thing to change is the over-representation of the armor and infantry stranglehold on the higher echelons of the Pentagon. There is no reason an MP, or Medical field
cant be Sgt Major of the Army or on the Joint Chiefs. Female pilots, should be allowed attack and interceptor slots, fixed and rotary. These things will allow more women to advance in the ranks. The Commandant of the Marine corps is a flyboy, unheard of in previous years.

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #53)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 10:00 AM

63. Why are you comparing a victimhood situation to a job willingly undertaken?

Men can be victims of rape and violent crime, too. That has no bearing on their voluntary military careers. It shouldn't for women, either, if they'd rather assume physical risks to participate in combat.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #63)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 01:33 PM

74. GOOD question. My answer: "It's the economy,......"

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Response to MrSlayer (Reply #34)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 01:10 AM

36. Women are already in the harms way of getting captured.

Now we can get equil pay for it!

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #36)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 03:40 PM

96. Eminent danger pay and combat pay are not dependent on MOS..

I am saddened we, the veterans of this nation, have allowed you to believe you have gained anything in this.
I hope because of our horrid misogyny that wars are now harder since we will feed Mars with daughters as well as sons...

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Response to SQUEE (Reply #96)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 04:55 PM

114. We have.

What you don't understand that we women must show we can do EVERYTHING men do to finally get to be treated as equals in everything. This is just another step to it.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #114)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 05:08 PM

119. you don't have to do that to me nor many other men here

Neandarthals are slowly dying off and I do actually rejoice in an idea of your freedom, and the recognition. But I still ask, what does the infantry gain by allowing your service?

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Response to MrSlayer (Reply #34)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 04:32 AM

47. Maybe this will get the warmongers to think twice before committing the US to more wars.

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Response to eShirl (Reply #47)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 04:40 AM

49. I think we both know that they don't care.

 

They'd be just as indifferent to female guts and brains strewn about as they are to male. As long as that money keeps flowing they don't care who dies.

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Response to eShirl (Reply #47)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 01:34 PM

75. Bwahahahaha! No.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 01:17 AM

37. Not sure why killing people is a "woohoo" moment.

 

What is it you think you will enjoy about it?

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Response to Arctic Dave (Reply #37)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 01:34 AM

38. We get to be equal, for the bad and the good.

We are now in it for the full measure.No man can now say "all you women don't understand war". That has been the argument used against many of us for a long time. Even with all the other stuff women did in the service that line remained.
You can't be expected to understand.

It is now proof none can argue with for equal pay for equal work. It is a dark door we must walk through to get those that keep, from the start of the Suffrage movement to today, to step aside and give us what we have earned and deserve as citizens of the U.S.A.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #38)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 02:18 AM

42. Yeah! Now women vets will commit suicide in equal numbers to the men!

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #42)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 08:29 AM

54. Then we can all sing about motherless children! Yay!

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #42)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 03:07 PM

91. As I stated, It is a dark door we must walk through.

Many men out there, even with being the 21st. century, will not allow us what should be no brainier rights till we show we are equal in all of it. The bad and the good.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #38)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 01:30 PM

72. Wow, that is one demented "want".

 

Wanting the opportunity to kill other people does not seem like a healthy mental outlook.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #38)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 02:19 PM

82. ...that's...


a very, very strange position to hold.

You think men WANT to go to war?

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 01:38 AM

39. Back during the cold war I slept soundly knowing our boys were patroling the night sky,

I shall sleep more soundly knowing our ladies and boys hold the keys to the gate; and no one shall pass except through them.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 01:53 AM

40. I just love the video

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 02:14 AM

41. And now young women should be required to register for the draft.

All citizens duly cataloged to be forced to fight for the empire.

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #41)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 04:48 AM

50. If men have to, then women (should) have to.

I can remember when nobody had to. All too brief a time.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 03:50 AM

45. It's about damn time!

And if anyone wonders if women are tough enough, watch this video:
(Press the CC button on the video for the English subtitles)


Watching these two guys start out laughing and end up begging for mercy when given simulated labor pains says a lot about just how tough women really are. One of the guys could not make it to the end. The one who did was in pure agony.

K&R

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Response to Jamastiene (Reply #45)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 08:40 AM

55. Really not a good example

All they did was attempt to mechanically replicate the physical pain in the abdominal region.

Pregnancy and labor involve a far more complex mix of neuro-endocrine and physiological processes that biologically are actually quite unique to the female of the species. Men do not have the same anatomical or chemical make-up and nor will we ever.

Read some Lt. Col. Grossman on what happens in combat with the neuro-endocrine system of the male system and then compare that to what occurs in the process of labor for a female. If women are now wanting to undergo that trauma inducing scenario with joy over supposed equality, then so be it. But seriously be careful what you wish for. It might not be what you think it is.

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Response to Jamastiene (Reply #45)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 12:36 AM

138. Did they try it on a women who had been pregnant before?

Or would that be too cruel?

Because I seriously doubt that the abdominal muscles are the same as a uterus.

Besides, most men will tolerate pain better then most women.

http://www.boston.com/news/health/articles/2010/09/27/learning_why_men_and_women_experience_pain_differently/

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 08:04 AM

51. Sure, why not.

But let's make sure it is true equality and not just illusory.

1) All young women between the ages of 18 and 25 must now go down to the USPS and register for the Selective Service System. No if's and's or but's about it, and if they do not, any young woman must face the same penalties as young men do today.

2) No preferential treatment must be given to female recruits in combat specialities. If a young lady can not complete the training with the same requirements as a male then she fails. If a young man today can not complete the course of study, and many men do fail, then the same equality must hold true for women.

If they can jump out of a plane with over 125 lbs of gear, weapons, and ammo and complete all-terrain hikes at night sometimes over several thousand meters in a specific time frame, then all the power to them. If they want to enter Special Forces, there must be no lowering of standards as they currently stand for male candidates. That means less sleep, less food & water, less hygiene, etc.

If these two rubrics aren't met, then this is just pseudo-equality and a 'political correctness' politics game.

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Response to TM99 (Reply #51)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:32 AM

58. Don't hold your breath

 

There are already two different standards and that will now carry over to combat and SFs.
If the military is smart, they will separate male and female combat units and use them accordingly.

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Response to regjoe (Reply #58)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:47 AM

59. I am aware of the current differences

I just hope the different standards will NOT carry over into combat and Special Forces. That will not be a good thing.

I agree on the separation, and I truly wonder how far ahead the thinking truly is on this as far as outcomes are concerned.

From where I sit, it sure looks like a political move on the part of Panetta to secure his 'legacy' as he leaves his post.

We shall see.

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Response to TM99 (Reply #59)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:57 AM

62. Yep, we shall see

 

But i think your hopes are all in vain. The different standards HAVE to carry over or they won't make the cut, and that will be unacceptable. And you are correct, it will not be a good thing.

The only outcomes that have been thought about have nothing to do with combat and everything to do with politics.

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Response to regjoe (Reply #62)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 10:29 AM

70. Of course they are in vain

because what I wrote will not ever occur.

Naturally there will need to be different standards or the female soldiers will fail their evals and not receive promotions. And this is really about promotions. No high ranking officer receives their commission without combat experience. You want to be a general, well then you need to command a combat unit. So in order to break that ceiling, women must receive combat experience if that means 'fudging' the reality of it.

I knew very few women who were capable of spending day after day hauling 100 lb ordinances in an artillery unit. Yes, there is an incredibly small percentage of women in the military that can do this, but you don't change an entire army for less than 3% of its ranks.



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Response to TM99 (Reply #70)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 04:41 PM

110. i know women firefighters

and i'll bet they could best you in any competition you can think of.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #110)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 10:04 PM

135. Very intelligent reply

Where are we, elementary school?

Of course, I know a few women who could best some men in competitions as well. That really misses the point doesn't it? There are fewer women who can than can't, therefore changing a large organization to accommodate for the few who can do so is very poor policy and strategically unsound.

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Response to regjoe (Reply #58)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 04:02 PM

101. Isn't the APFT gender neutral now? n/t

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Response to Gormy Cuss (Reply #101)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 04:36 PM

107. Yes

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #107)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 11:46 PM

137. No

Are you kidding me?

Let's pick the 17-21 age group for the Army as an example. For men, the minimum and maximum push ups are 42 and 71. For women, they are 19 and 42. Sit-ups, yes, are the same for both genders. However, for a 2 mile run, for men, the minimum and maximum are 15:54 and 13:00. For women, they are 18:54 and 15:36.

There are difference minimums for male and female Marines as well, which does not mean one has passed the FPT if they only can score that minimum. The CPT for Marines is a notch up as are the Ranger PFT qualifications for the Army.

So, no, they are not gender neutral. They are different for each sex. If women are planning to join combat specialties, then yes, they bloody well better become gender neutral and the same. Because if the slowest female is only capable of a 13:00 2 mile run and her slowest male counterpart is doing a 15:54 2 mile run, that difference will get one or both of them killed or captured in combat.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 08:25 AM

52. Not in the cheering section, here.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 10:04 AM

67. I hope you'll forgive me for not cheering this one on...

In the eyes of the Pentagon, this simply means more fodder for the cannon.

I wish for a day when we don't have to send anyone off to war, regardless of gender...

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Original post)


Response to lolwat (Reply #71)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 04:40 PM

109. lolwat poster was just banned

FYI, to those that agree with them.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 01:37 PM

77. And how would this impact a draft?

And more immediately, mandatory registration?

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 01:49 PM

81. Equality is equality.

I don't have a problem with allowing women in combat roles, as long as they can meet the required physical standards.

For those who are opposed to this idea due to the potential for female captives being raped, there was a reason that many of the soviet soldiers would choose to kill themselves rather than be captured by the Mujahideen during the Soviet-Afghanistan conflict, many who captured were raped and then mutilated. Long history of similar abuses in Afghanistan.

"When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
and the women come out to cut up what remains,
jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
and go to your gawd like a soldier. "

Rudyard Kipling

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 02:34 PM

84. That is officially. We have been in wars as long as there have been wars. They often called us the

victims.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 02:41 PM

86. Why would women, or anyone, want to go into combat and kill people?

An aspiration I fail to comprehend.

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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #86)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 07:21 PM

128. Yeah, I am as baffled as you are.

The military is so fucked. Sorry if I offend anyone, I know there are brave and dedicated military personnel out there - even in my own family - but I am so opposed to war at such a fundamental level, the whole idea of serving (for me personally) is repugnant. I would go to prison before I would go to war.

I don't get guns either. I just don't and never will.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 02:44 PM

88. Grats! You can die for the 1%! nt

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Response to RandiFan1290 (Reply #88)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 12:00 PM

146. ...and kill innocent brown people in the process. nt

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 02:52 PM

89. There will never be a draft again

No way, because they would have to draft women then or it would be discriminatory.

And the whole country would rise up if girlie girls were forced in. Just the thought of my makeup, nail and hair perfect daughter in the military is a laugh.

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Response to marlakay (Reply #89)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 03:20 PM

93. Why is it any better for men to be forced to go die?

I agree with allowing women to serve on the front lines, but I don't think we should be in any of these wars and I don't think the draft should be allowed for anyone. I think it is just as disgusting to force some 18 year old man to go fight and die as it is to force a women to go fight. Hell, I'm sure most people who know me would find the thought of me in the military laughable.

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Response to marlakay (Reply #89)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 04:37 PM

108. thanks for posting sexism, right there

you realize this isn't your living room, don't you?

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 03:35 PM

95. What a stupid, ignorant post.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 03:41 PM

97. CNN has a poll up on this

Scroll down on right: http://us.cnn.com/?hpt=ed_US

Current results:

Should women be allowed in combat?

Yes 63% 8297

No 37% 4870

Total votes: 13167

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 03:50 PM

99. Damn, when I saw that women go in the voting booth and pull the black curtain...

my eyes filled with tears! They are still there as I remember my mother telling me about how my grandmother was involved in woman's voting rights. I didn't appreciate her sacrifice at the time.
Hope she's up there somewhere and knows how far we've come today.

By the way, What was that scene with the woman strapped down and forced to drink something? Can anyone explain that?

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Response to Auntie Bush (Reply #99)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 04:18 PM

103. That was a nod to Alice Paul

Who was force fed by tube when she went on a hunger strike over her treatment in jail. I believe it was in Occoquan prison in Virginia. She was sent to jail for protesting the lack of the right to vote. She was convicted of obstructing traffic. Editing for a passage from her wiki entry:

In a protest of the conditions in Occoquan, Paul commenced a hunger strike, which led to her being moved to the prison’s psychiatric ward and force-fed raw eggs through a feeding tube. "Seems almost unthinkable now, doesn’t it?," Paul told an interviewer from American Heritage when asked about the forced feeding. "It was shocking that a government of men could look with such extreme contempt on a movement that was asking nothing except such a simple little thing as the right to vote."

Paul's hunger strike, combined with the continuing demonstrations and attendant press coverage, kept pressure on the Wilson administration. In January, 1918, Wilson announced that women's suffrage was urgently needed as a "war measure", and strongly urged Congress to pass the legislation. In 1920, after coming down to one vote in the state of Tennessee, the Nineteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution secured the vote for women.


She was one tough woman.

I would think having women like her serving our nation in combat is a good thing.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 04:15 PM

102. Do you have a web address for that video?

Would like to send it to some people.

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Response to Auntie Bush (Reply #102)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 05:24 PM

121. It is a YouTube video.

It is under the name "Bad Romance: Women's Suffrage"

put out by soomopublishing

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 04:19 PM

105. Me personally, no

Not my thing, but if that is what you want, go for it, girl.

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #105)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 04:55 PM

113. It's just like the abortion controversy. I want

women to have the right to choose an abortion...even thought I wouldn't want one personally.

Everyone should have the right to their own decision...not for politicians to make that decision for us.

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Response to Auntie Bush (Reply #113)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 06:24 PM

124. Absolutely

The individual woman's decision.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 04:20 PM

106. ...Women have been in the fight for a long time...It's just now the armed forces will

finally recognize this....

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 05:28 PM

123. As long as they can pass the physical requirements to do the job safely

I'm all for it

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 06:43 PM

126. Whatever turns you on

as we said in my day. Not my thing, but if it is yours, go for it, girl.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 08:44 PM

129. Women have been in combat

for some time now. This is official, let's them get the pay differential and credit for it. A woman who was flying a heliocopter, got shot down, lost her legs and -- any man in that event would get a medal....she was not eligable because...........medals are for combat soldiers and women are not in combat. Now combat women are "out of the closet"......

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Response to auntsue (Reply #129)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 08:59 PM

130. Besides the Purple Heart, Tammy Duckworth was awarded the Air Medal and the ARCOM in the hospital

‘The pedals were gone, and so were my legs’
Maj. Ladda 'Tammy' Duckworth, Air Medal, Army Commendation Medal

http://www.stripes.com/news/the-pedals-were-gone-and-so-were-my-legs-1.34578

She also is a recipient of the Army's Combat Action Badge.

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Response to auntsue (Reply #129)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:47 AM

139. Out of the closet, my ass!

Women in the military have been and still are in combat situations.

All men and women get combat pay if in the zone.

Women who are injured in combat get medals.

The difference is that combat specialties like infantry will now be open to women.

There is a greater chance of promotion to higher ranks if one has not only been in combat but also led in combat.

This change has absolutely zero to do with pay, credit, or medals and everything to do with politics and promotions.

Please get your facts straight.

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Response to TM99 (Reply #139)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:07 PM

152. I stand corrected

but....without lowering standards ... if women "can" do it...they should be "allowed" to do it.

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Response to auntsue (Reply #152)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 02:00 AM

153. No Problem

If they 'can' do it, the standards are not lowered, and women 18-25 must now register for Selective Service, the I accept it.

I don't agree with it, and I don't believe all of the consequences have been fully thought out.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:37 PM

133. Hopefully none are ever captured. Read about the sexual degradation

the Taliban impose on the daughters of farmers who can't pay their opium debts. They spend the rest of their lives as rape slaves, never to be seen by their families again.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 10:45 PM

136. Equality or nothing. from a guy!

Instead of calling them women, girls, gals, etc, why not call them adults? If they are adults ,then they should be able to serve their country. Women already do dangerous jobs like being cops, firefighters, detention officers, and other professions that are as hard in their own right. Either they are equal or they are not. But if society decides not, then we are going to have to take a long hard look in the mirror.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:56 AM

145. Definately an equal rights win for the US. nt

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 12:01 PM

147. yout think women would be more likely to support an illegal war if the President were a woman?

 



what if Hillary runs and does win in 2016 (or any woman who is not shy about being pro-war or thinks that Margaret Thatcher types are all that and a bag of chip). And she declares war on Eastasia and calls for all women to join her in support.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #147)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:47 PM

151. An illegal war is illegal.

Many here are against the wars we are in due to being illegal.

We women can not give a pass due to her being a woman. To be truly equal we must be treated equal in all things.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 12:06 PM

148. Really?

The fight for Women's rights was about the right to be killed in combat?

So you won a battle (I doubt even that). But have you seen this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2257552 ?

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Response to OldEurope (Reply #148)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:09 PM

150. It is another door we women must walk through for equality.

To be treated as equals in every way we must be equal in the good and the bad.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Original post)

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