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Wed Jan 23, 2013, 03:59 AM

 

Poverty Isnít Destiny?

Quite a few Ed Deformers say that Poverty Isnít Destiny. They say that it doesnít matter if a child has been subjected to lead poisoning, separation from parents, violent or otherwise cruel child abuse, inadequate nutrition, and has lacked dental or health care and the love and care of a family during the first, crucial years. All it takes is for a Bright Young Thing fresh out of college to work her butt off for two years before she goes to work for a bank ó and all of those handicaps will be overcome...

Here are two three graphs from Wisconsin that show how close the connection between the poverty rates and student achievement levels, at all of their schools for which they provide data. ...you can download the entire spreadsheet for the state of Wisconsin...



That is an incredibly strong correlation between poverty levels and student achievement. The fewer the proportion of poor students at a school, the better the achievement scores at that school.



There are very few real-life correlations between two entities stronger than what you see in these two graphs.

http://gfbrandenburg.wordpress.com/2013/01/21/poverty-isnt-destiny/

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 04:36 AM

1. I wonder what the exact cause is though

Does poverty impact education by decreasing the funding schools get? I know, at least in my area, that local property taxes fund the local public schools. So a more affluent area will have substantially better funded schools than a poorer area.

Or is it more of a socio-economic poisition/attitude of the parents spin-off impacting this? Poorer parent might not be as likely to value an education as much as more affluent parents. As a result they don't stress the importance of school work as much at home (not to mention that a poorer person might not be home to "parent their children" as much due to their need to work more than one job or more than 40 hours a week).

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Response to Victor_c3 (Reply #1)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 04:46 AM

2. there is no 'exact cause'. it's all of the above and more, including the internally felt stigma of

 

poverty.

what we *do* know, & *have* known for decades, is that the effect is *robust* (as shown in the strength of the correlation), & present in every country in the world. and expresses itself not only in things like test scores, but also in health & other areas.

and if you'll note -- it's not only the poor who are affected. middle-class kids, on average, get 'middling' scores. the same is true in 'health scores' etc.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #2)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 04:55 AM

3. stupid question then is how do we fix this? What sorts of activism should we pursue here? n/t

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Response to Victor_c3 (Reply #3)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 05:01 AM

4. what do *you* think?

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 06:47 AM

5. Thanks, HiPointDem...

K&R

One really doesn't need the lines to see the affect of poverty on the achievement scores of Wisconsin students. This should be done for every state in the Union. Imagine what Mississippi's would look like... probably a straight line downwards.

I'm tellin' ya'...poverty is a killer in so many ways. If Capitalism is so GD great, then there shouldn't even BE such a thing as poverty. The winger excuse is that these "poor people CHOOSE TO BE POOR." That's their defense! They started saying that back when Reagan was President.. hell, it may have been the words out of his own mouth. Blame the victims. That's all they know how to do... and the wingers believe it! What's the fucking matter with Kansas? It's as apparent as the nose on the face of every American. But so many of them don't see.

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 07:00 AM

6. mt thoughts on this

could fill a book... (no time this morning for books) I know first hand the effects of poverty and the disadvantages for those growing up in poverty (or abuse) is immense... so much inequality on so many levels in this society... one of my favorite lines from President Obama's speech

"...Our journey is not complete until all our children, from the streets of Detroit to the hills of Appalachia, to the quiet lanes of Newtown, know that they are cared for and cherished and always safe from harm..."

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 07:32 AM

7. Study: the US and UK are worst in social mobility; the best - Canada and Nordic countries.



Several large studies of mobility in developed countries in recent years have found that One study (ďDo Poor Children Become Poor Adults?") found that of nine developed countries, the United States and United Kingdom had the lowest intergenerational vertical social mobility with about half of the advantages of having a parent with a high income passed on to the next generation. The four countries with the lowest "intergenerational income elasticity", i.e. the highest social mobility, were Denmark, Norway, Finland, and Canada with less than 20% of advantages of having a high income parent passed on to their children.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socio-economic_mobility_in_the_United_States#Comparisons_with_other_countries

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 08:52 AM

8. Poverty may not be destiny, but that's the way to bet. nt

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 09:37 AM

9. No. It's predisposition.

You don't beat destiny. You just cope.

Even to the extent that it's a strong predisposition, the belief that it's one that's very hard to overcome is often taken as an excuse or justification. Blaming others is going to do little.

By the time the kid gets to most pre-schools, a lot of the damage is done. A lot of social activists in education departments want to fix things and latch onto what they hope can change things. They let their hope get in the way of facts. Often such departments do create their own reality. For about 10 years. Then it's obvious that they're wrong and there's a new wave of, "Oh, *now* we know what to do."

EC interventions help. For a few years. But the attitudes, education levels, parenting styles, stress and envy, fear from the lack of social trust all catch up with the kid. By 5th or 6th grade the effects of most EC interventions have mostly faded. Success in school in 7th or 8th grade tends to be strongly predictive of HS graduation rates and even college success. (And that doesn't depend on SES. A rich kid whose sucky in 7th grade is likely to bomb college. A middle class kid who's sucky in 7th grade might barely graduate HS.)

Family poverty is recreated with each generation. You may be born into it, but intergenerational poverty is, contrary to some goofs, not just a lack of money. It's a set of values, beliefs, attitudes, and behaviors that frequently lead to the same result in the kids.

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Response to Igel (Reply #9)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 10:01 AM

10. You sound just like a Dickensian lord discussing the aberrant nature of ones lessers.

... in a palace kept clean and in repair buy those "predisposed" to grovel for their pennies at your feet while dressing and wiping your ass.

Tell me, are you one of the lucky ones with a predisposition to be wealthy?

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 01:48 PM

11. kick

 

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