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Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:36 PM

"Frontline" Alert

Tonight at 10 pm et. the PBS show Frontline will air an episode titled The Untouchables. This episode will examine why not one bank CEO has been jailed for the activity leading up to the financial crisis of 2008.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/business-economy-financial-crisis/untouchables/fraud-was-the-f-bomb/

46 replies, 5888 views

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 46 replies Author Time Post
Reply "Frontline" Alert (Original post)
erpowers Jan 2013 OP
physioex Jan 2013 #1
hay rick Jan 2013 #2
renate Jan 2013 #3
gateley Jan 2013 #19
Ian Iam Jan 2013 #45
LisaLynne Jan 2013 #4
tosh Jan 2013 #5
slackmaster Jan 2013 #6
irisblue Jan 2013 #14
HiPointDem Jan 2013 #7
Lady Freedom Returns Jan 2013 #8
WorseBeforeBetter Jan 2013 #9
proud2BlibKansan Jan 2013 #10
mockmonkey Jan 2013 #17
rhett o rick Jan 2013 #11
Lady Freedom Returns Jan 2013 #12
WCGreen Jan 2013 #13
TalkingDog Jan 2013 #44
Squinch Jan 2013 #15
UnrepentantLiberal Jan 2013 #16
octoberlib Jan 2013 #18
Ruby the Liberal Jan 2013 #20
tilsammans Jan 2013 #21
WorseBeforeBetter Jan 2013 #22
reformist2 Jan 2013 #23
banned from Kos Jan 2013 #24
reformist2 Jan 2013 #25
banned from Kos Jan 2013 #28
reformist2 Jan 2013 #29
banned from Kos Jan 2013 #30
elleng Jan 2013 #27
WorseBeforeBetter Jan 2013 #32
banned from Kos Jan 2013 #33
snot Jan 2013 #36
elleng Jan 2013 #26
banned from Kos Jan 2013 #31
Lady Freedom Returns Jan 2013 #35
Warpy Jan 2013 #34
snot Jan 2013 #37
apocalypsehow Jan 2013 #38
snot Jan 2013 #39
snot Jan 2013 #40
RickFromMN Jan 2013 #41
Purplehazed Jan 2013 #42
blkmusclmachine Jan 2013 #43
Rain Mcloud Jan 2013 #46

Response to erpowers (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:39 PM

1. Thank your for the heads up. EOM

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Response to erpowers (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:41 PM

2. Thanks.

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Response to erpowers (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:42 PM

3. thank you!

There are lots of really good Frontlines about the financial crisis available streaming on Netflix--I'm really looking forward to this. Thank you!

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Response to renate (Reply #3)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 08:27 PM

19. Thanks -- I didn't realize that!

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Response to renate (Reply #3)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 05:43 PM

45. I shall be tuned in

 

Bankers have ruined the economies of too many countries!

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Response to erpowers (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:42 PM

4. Thanks for the info.

I'll be watching!

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Response to erpowers (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:43 PM

5. Thanks!

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Response to erpowers (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:45 PM

6. I am relieved to see this isn't about a recall of my cats' flea medication

 

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #6)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 07:16 PM

14. me too LOL

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Response to erpowers (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:46 PM

7. kr

 

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Response to erpowers (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 06:29 PM

8. K & R!

I love Frontline!

I wish I could work for them! I would be the happiest person!!!

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Response to erpowers (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 06:30 PM

9. Thanks for the reminder. (n/t)

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Response to erpowers (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 06:31 PM

10. Is this a rerun? They did a similar show a couple years ago.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 08:02 PM

17. New n/t

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Response to erpowers (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 06:38 PM

11. k&r

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Response to erpowers (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 07:05 PM

12. RATS! RATS! RATS!

It is on at ten pm here in Tucson! I have to go to bed early tonight!

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #12)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 07:12 PM

13. They put a lot of the Frontlines on PBS.org

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Response to erpowers (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 07:18 PM

15. Thank you!

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Response to erpowers (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 07:36 PM

16. I'd watch but it will just piss me off.

 

The 60 Minutes piece on this from a year or two ago made it clear that they're making no attempt to go after them. Hey, why cut off the money supply?

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Response to erpowers (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 08:07 PM

18. Thanks for the reminder! nt

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Response to erpowers (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 08:51 PM

20. Sweet.

I will be in bed, but will bookmark this to watch after it airs. Thank you for the heads up!

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Response to erpowers (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 09:51 PM

21. Must-see TV for me! n/t

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Response to erpowers (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 10:58 PM

22. Well, that was fun.



"Cliffhanger" episode in 3 weeks (I think is what announcer said...).

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Response to erpowers (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 11:01 PM

23. What's this Angelo Mozilo guy doing today?


This is the guy that knows everything.

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Response to erpowers (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 11:02 PM

24. Lanny Breuer is correct. Proving "criminal intent" was not possible.

 

Every bank in the country has made a shitty loan but was their intent "fraud"?

Impossible to prove.

Kaufman tried and even got legislation signed by Obama to investigate but in the end - nada. Nothing.

Pretty good episode of Frontline though.

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Response to banned from Kos (Reply #24)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 11:08 PM

25. What? Subpoena that Countrywide supervisor's supervisor. Then his supervisor. Get them to talk.


Countrywide is the heart of the scandal. That's where I'd focus the investigation.

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Response to reformist2 (Reply #25)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 11:13 PM

28. Countrywide is not "Wall Street" - they were a California mortgage originator.

 

And a very sleazy one with all their lying about income, assets, and credit.

That hurt the Frontline episode - concentrating on Countrywide for so long.

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Response to banned from Kos (Reply #28)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 11:14 PM

29. Wall Street didn't originate any these crappy loans... sleazy outfits like Countrywide did.


My point is just that. You start at the beginning. Figure out why Mozilo/Countrywide did what he did, and why he thought he'd get away with it. THEN you go after the big fish on Wall Street.

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Response to reformist2 (Reply #29)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 11:17 PM

30. I agree. Ameritrade, Indymac, Countrywide were on all the boxes they showed.

 

Justice has no case against Bear Stearns, Lehman, et al.

Why would they defraud themselves?

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Response to banned from Kos (Reply #24)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 11:13 PM

27. Should have discussed this in more detail,

had someone on who might have actually TRIED to prove fraud/intent. Leaves us

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Response to banned from Kos (Reply #24)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 11:21 PM

32. Yeah! Only 800+ greedy S&L mutherfuckers went to jail.

But this latest manufactured crisis? Impossible!

In Financial Crisis, No Prosecutions of Top Figures
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/14/business/14prosecute.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Cheer away.

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Response to WorseBeforeBetter (Reply #32)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 11:25 PM

33. The bursting of the housing bubble was manufactured by all of us.

 

Everyone wanted in on the never-ending rise in home values.

A classic bubble - just like dot.com stocks in 1999-2000.

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Response to banned from Kos (Reply #24)


Response to erpowers (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 11:11 PM

26. DAMN! Failed to discuss necessary element of fraud,

what statute says, requires, and how it might be proven.

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Response to elleng (Reply #26)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 11:19 PM

31. Yes, Frontline avoided the nitty-gritty legal definitions.

 

Too boring and inconclusive.

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Response to banned from Kos (Reply #31)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 12:19 AM

35. And John Q. Public has trouble following it.

Many can't follow when they get lost in translation, of the definitions that is.
I am glad they Frontline tried to keep from having unintended misinformation that putting that stuff in could/would cause.

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Response to erpowers (Original post)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 12:03 AM

34. Having a bozo with the CEO title is their best defense

They need a rich kid with an MBA, not too difficult to find, and keep promoting him through the ranks. Because they keep him occupied away from the real decision making, he can plead ignorance of what was going on and the Feds can't possibly prove intent because that was simply not part of his job.

Remember Ken Lay's defense? He had no idea Enron was on the brink of disaster because he was busy redecorating his office. I believed him, I've seen the type they put into those spots and the kind of busywork they do and what sort of decisions they're trusted with.

At least starting with the small fry would allow them to trace the whole process. Making deals with some of the small fry would get them up the food chain to the real scumbags.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #34)


Response to erpowers (Original post)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 02:59 AM

38. Kick & Rec. There should be re-run on your local PBS station for those who missed it.

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Response to erpowers (Original post)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 03:12 AM

39. The worst is, this apparently focusses on the least of the problem(s).

Sorry I didn't see the show, so maybe I'm off-base. But.

Bad mortgage loans were the least of the problem. There were lots of bad mortgages, and they were/are a problem, yes. But at least they were secured by physical real estate.

But the reason there were so many bad mortgages made was because there was money to be made off securitizing them.

And even more importantly, there was even more money to be made off of betting about them (the infamous "credit derivatives") especially off of betting against them, betting that they WOULD eventually crater as Goldman et al. did in fact bet, even while selling them to others.

And thanks to Paulson, Geithner, Obama, et al, we, YOU AND ME, made good on those bets. They were placed with an insolvent bookie, AIG; and Goldman and the others who placed them knew or should have known AIG wouldn't be able to make good on them; but thanks to Geithner et al, we bailed AIG out; so instead of having AIG go belly-up and letting Goldman et al. take cents on the dollar for their speculative, not to mention felonious claims, through a bankruptcy-like procedure, we enabled AIG to PAY those bets to Goldman et al. To the tune of $16 trillion or so.

And until you understand all that, you don't begin to grasp the looting that has occurred.

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Response to snot (Reply #39)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 03:24 AM

40. PS: If any of those involved in the debacle were in fact as clueless as claimed,

they should at the minimum be fired and barred from any further involvement in banking for life.

Instead, they got bonuses. Because they succeeded in what they set out to do.

Note: The reason I'm so sure about all this is because we went through it on a much smaller scale with the S&L mess in the 80's. And we liquidated bad banks instead of bailing them out, and prosecuted their senior execs. and sent them to jail, and there were a few bad years but we enabled the economy to recover without undue delay.

Search William Black, if you'd like to know more.

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Response to erpowers (Original post)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 11:50 AM

41. I believe the show is available online at the following:


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/untouchables/

Having watched the show on a local PBS station,
my initial reaction is to ask President Obama to ask Lanny Breuer to resign.

I agree with those who say Lanny Breuer is there to prosecute, and not to stay up at night worrying that prosecutions might jeopardize the health of the financial industry

I would argue lack of prosecutions jeopardize the health of the financial industry.

I will say my views of Lanny Breuer, after watching this show, cause me to question his competency.

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Response to erpowers (Original post)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 12:42 PM

42. Campaign Contributions

Didn't see any mention of this. It seems you got a "get out of jail free card" by being a top campaign contributor in 2008. Maybe that will change since Wall Street changed alliances in 2012.

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Response to erpowers (Original post)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 04:53 PM

43. Them: Too Big To Jail.

Us: Too Small To Matter.

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Response to erpowers (Original post)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 06:04 PM

46. There can be only one acceptable reason.......

 

[link:|

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