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"Frontline" Alert (Original Post) erpowers Jan 2013 OP
Thank your for the heads up. EOM physioex Jan 2013 #1
Thanks. hay rick Jan 2013 #2
thank you! renate Jan 2013 #3
Thanks -- I didn't realize that! gateley Jan 2013 #19
I shall be tuned in Ian Iam Jan 2013 #45
Thanks for the info. LisaLynne Jan 2013 #4
Thanks! tosh Jan 2013 #5
I am relieved to see this isn't about a recall of my cats' flea medication slackmaster Jan 2013 #6
me too LOL irisblue Jan 2013 #14
kr HiPointDem Jan 2013 #7
K & R! Lady Freedom Returns Jan 2013 #8
Thanks for the reminder. (n/t) WorseBeforeBetter Jan 2013 #9
Is this a rerun? They did a similar show a couple years ago. proud2BlibKansan Jan 2013 #10
New n/t mockmonkey Jan 2013 #17
k&r rhett o rick Jan 2013 #11
RATS! RATS! RATS! Lady Freedom Returns Jan 2013 #12
They put a lot of the Frontlines on PBS.org WCGreen Jan 2013 #13
Chillax. It's on line for free. TalkingDog Jan 2013 #44
Thank you! Squinch Jan 2013 #15
I'd watch but it will just piss me off. UnrepentantLiberal Jan 2013 #16
Thanks for the reminder! nt octoberlib Jan 2013 #18
Sweet. Ruby the Liberal Jan 2013 #20
Must-see TV for me! n/t tilsammans Jan 2013 #21
Well, that was fun. WorseBeforeBetter Jan 2013 #22
What's this Angelo Mozilo guy doing today? reformist2 Jan 2013 #23
Lanny Breuer is correct. Proving "criminal intent" was not possible. banned from Kos Jan 2013 #24
What? Subpoena that Countrywide supervisor's supervisor. Then his supervisor. Get them to talk. reformist2 Jan 2013 #25
Countrywide is not "Wall Street" - they were a California mortgage originator. banned from Kos Jan 2013 #28
Wall Street didn't originate any these crappy loans... sleazy outfits like Countrywide did. reformist2 Jan 2013 #29
I agree. Ameritrade, Indymac, Countrywide were on all the boxes they showed. banned from Kos Jan 2013 #30
Should have discussed this in more detail, elleng Jan 2013 #27
Yeah! Only 800+ greedy S&L mutherfuckers went to jail. WorseBeforeBetter Jan 2013 #32
The bursting of the housing bubble was manufactured by all of us. banned from Kos Jan 2013 #33
This message was self-deleted by its author snot Jan 2013 #36
DAMN! Failed to discuss necessary element of fraud, elleng Jan 2013 #26
Yes, Frontline avoided the nitty-gritty legal definitions. banned from Kos Jan 2013 #31
And John Q. Public has trouble following it. Lady Freedom Returns Jan 2013 #35
Having a bozo with the CEO title is their best defense Warpy Jan 2013 #34
This message was self-deleted by its author snot Jan 2013 #37
Kick & Rec. There should be re-run on your local PBS station for those who missed it. apocalypsehow Jan 2013 #38
The worst is, this apparently focusses on the least of the problem(s). snot Jan 2013 #39
PS: If any of those involved in the debacle were in fact as clueless as claimed, snot Jan 2013 #40
I believe the show is available online at the following: RickFromMN Jan 2013 #41
Campaign Contributions Purplehazed Jan 2013 #42
Them: Too Big To Jail. blkmusclmachine Jan 2013 #43
There can be only one acceptable reason....... Rain Mcloud Jan 2013 #46

renate

(13,776 posts)
3. thank you!
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 06:42 PM
Jan 2013

There are lots of really good Frontlines about the financial crisis available streaming on Netflix--I'm really looking forward to this. Thank you!

 

UnrepentantLiberal

(11,700 posts)
16. I'd watch but it will just piss me off.
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 08:36 PM
Jan 2013

The 60 Minutes piece on this from a year or two ago made it clear that they're making no attempt to go after them. Hey, why cut off the money supply?

 

banned from Kos

(4,017 posts)
24. Lanny Breuer is correct. Proving "criminal intent" was not possible.
Wed Jan 23, 2013, 12:02 AM
Jan 2013

Every bank in the country has made a shitty loan but was their intent "fraud"?

Impossible to prove.

Kaufman tried and even got legislation signed by Obama to investigate but in the end - nada. Nothing.

Pretty good episode of Frontline though.

reformist2

(9,841 posts)
25. What? Subpoena that Countrywide supervisor's supervisor. Then his supervisor. Get them to talk.
Wed Jan 23, 2013, 12:08 AM
Jan 2013

Countrywide is the heart of the scandal. That's where I'd focus the investigation.
 

banned from Kos

(4,017 posts)
28. Countrywide is not "Wall Street" - they were a California mortgage originator.
Wed Jan 23, 2013, 12:13 AM
Jan 2013

And a very sleazy one with all their lying about income, assets, and credit.

That hurt the Frontline episode - concentrating on Countrywide for so long.

reformist2

(9,841 posts)
29. Wall Street didn't originate any these crappy loans... sleazy outfits like Countrywide did.
Wed Jan 23, 2013, 12:14 AM
Jan 2013

My point is just that. You start at the beginning. Figure out why Mozilo/Countrywide did what he did, and why he thought he'd get away with it. THEN you go after the big fish on Wall Street.
 

banned from Kos

(4,017 posts)
30. I agree. Ameritrade, Indymac, Countrywide were on all the boxes they showed.
Wed Jan 23, 2013, 12:17 AM
Jan 2013

Justice has no case against Bear Stearns, Lehman, et al.

Why would they defraud themselves?

elleng

(130,126 posts)
27. Should have discussed this in more detail,
Wed Jan 23, 2013, 12:13 AM
Jan 2013

had someone on who might have actually TRIED to prove fraud/intent. Leaves us

WorseBeforeBetter

(11,441 posts)
32. Yeah! Only 800+ greedy S&L mutherfuckers went to jail.
Wed Jan 23, 2013, 12:21 AM
Jan 2013

But this latest manufactured crisis? Impossible!

In Financial Crisis, No Prosecutions of Top Figures
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/14/business/14prosecute.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Cheer away.

 

banned from Kos

(4,017 posts)
33. The bursting of the housing bubble was manufactured by all of us.
Wed Jan 23, 2013, 12:25 AM
Jan 2013

Everyone wanted in on the never-ending rise in home values.

A classic bubble - just like dot.com stocks in 1999-2000.

Response to banned from Kos (Reply #24)

elleng

(130,126 posts)
26. DAMN! Failed to discuss necessary element of fraud,
Wed Jan 23, 2013, 12:11 AM
Jan 2013

what statute says, requires, and how it might be proven.

Lady Freedom Returns

(14,120 posts)
35. And John Q. Public has trouble following it.
Wed Jan 23, 2013, 01:19 AM
Jan 2013

Many can't follow when they get lost in translation, of the definitions that is.
I am glad they Frontline tried to keep from having unintended misinformation that putting that stuff in could/would cause.

Warpy

(110,900 posts)
34. Having a bozo with the CEO title is their best defense
Wed Jan 23, 2013, 01:03 AM
Jan 2013

They need a rich kid with an MBA, not too difficult to find, and keep promoting him through the ranks. Because they keep him occupied away from the real decision making, he can plead ignorance of what was going on and the Feds can't possibly prove intent because that was simply not part of his job.

Remember Ken Lay's defense? He had no idea Enron was on the brink of disaster because he was busy redecorating his office. I believed him, I've seen the type they put into those spots and the kind of busywork they do and what sort of decisions they're trusted with.

At least starting with the small fry would allow them to trace the whole process. Making deals with some of the small fry would get them up the food chain to the real scumbags.

Response to Warpy (Reply #34)

snot

(10,478 posts)
39. The worst is, this apparently focusses on the least of the problem(s).
Wed Jan 23, 2013, 04:12 AM
Jan 2013

Sorry I didn't see the show, so maybe I'm off-base. But.

Bad mortgage loans were the least of the problem. There were lots of bad mortgages, and they were/are a problem, yes. But at least they were secured by physical real estate.

But the reason there were so many bad mortgages made was because there was money to be made off securitizing them.

And even more importantly, there was even more money to be made off of betting about them (the infamous "credit derivatives&quot – especially off of betting against them, betting that they WOULD eventually crater – as Goldman et al. did in fact bet, even while selling them to others.

And thanks to Paulson, Geithner, Obama, et al, we, YOU AND ME, made good on those bets. They were placed with an insolvent bookie, AIG; and Goldman and the others who placed them knew or should have known AIG wouldn't be able to make good on them; but thanks to Geithner et al, we bailed AIG out; so instead of having AIG go belly-up and letting Goldman et al. take cents on the dollar for their speculative, not to mention felonious claims, through a bankruptcy-like procedure, we enabled AIG to PAY those bets to Goldman et al. To the tune of $16 trillion or so.

And until you understand all that, you don't begin to grasp the looting that has occurred.

snot

(10,478 posts)
40. PS: If any of those involved in the debacle were in fact as clueless as claimed,
Wed Jan 23, 2013, 04:24 AM
Jan 2013

they should at the minimum be fired and barred from any further involvement in banking for life.

Instead, they got bonuses. Because they succeeded in what they set out to do.

Note: The reason I'm so sure about all this is because we went through it on a much smaller scale with the S&L mess in the 80's. And we liquidated bad banks instead of bailing them out, and prosecuted their senior execs. and sent them to jail, and there were a few bad years but we enabled the economy to recover without undue delay.

Search William Black, if you'd like to know more.

RickFromMN

(478 posts)
41. I believe the show is available online at the following:
Wed Jan 23, 2013, 12:50 PM
Jan 2013

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/untouchables/

Having watched the show on a local PBS station,
my initial reaction is to ask President Obama to ask Lanny Breuer to resign.

I agree with those who say Lanny Breuer is there to prosecute, and not to stay up at night worrying that prosecutions might jeopardize the health of the financial industry

I would argue lack of prosecutions jeopardize the health of the financial industry.

I will say my views of Lanny Breuer, after watching this show, cause me to question his competency.

Purplehazed

(179 posts)
42. Campaign Contributions
Wed Jan 23, 2013, 01:42 PM
Jan 2013

Didn't see any mention of this. It seems you got a "get out of jail free card" by being a top campaign contributor in 2008. Maybe that will change since Wall Street changed alliances in 2012.

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