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Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:21 AM

Does anyone else have a problem with this?


Posted on the Being Liberal fan page

56 replies, 7115 views

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Arrow 56 replies Author Time Post
Reply Does anyone else have a problem with this? (Original post)
Playinghardball Jan 2013 OP
NoOneMan Jan 2013 #1
mettamega Jan 2013 #19
Igel Jan 2013 #31
HiPointDem Jan 2013 #32
JDPriestly Jan 2013 #52
niyad Jan 2013 #2
LisaLynne Jan 2013 #3
NYC_SKP Jan 2013 #4
sad-cafe Jan 2013 #5
Honeycombe8 Jan 2013 #6
Fire Walk With Me Jan 2013 #7
moondust Jan 2013 #11
SomeGuyInEagan Jan 2013 #47
Curmudgeoness Jan 2013 #49
Brigid Jan 2013 #8
ReRe Jan 2013 #17
abelenkpe Jan 2013 #9
freshwest Jan 2013 #10
SunSeeker Jan 2013 #12
freshwest Jan 2013 #16
SunSeeker Jan 2013 #20
freshwest Jan 2013 #41
ReRe Jan 2013 #23
freshwest Jan 2013 #42
ReRe Jan 2013 #45
davidn3600 Jan 2013 #13
antigop Jan 2013 #22
freshwest Jan 2013 #43
Fire Walk With Me Jan 2013 #14
supertascha Jan 2013 #15
2naSalit Jan 2013 #26
Amonester Jan 2013 #28
tclambert Jan 2013 #18
Fire Walk With Me Jan 2013 #25
Comrade_McKenzie Jan 2013 #33
They_Live Jan 2013 #44
xtraxritical Jan 2013 #55
BlancheSplanchnik Jan 2013 #21
ReRe Jan 2013 #24
2naSalit Jan 2013 #27
datasuspect Jan 2013 #29
mountain grammy Jan 2013 #30
Wednesdays Jan 2013 #34
LibDemAlways Jan 2013 #40
lexw Jan 2013 #35
LibDemAlways Jan 2013 #37
Kablooie Jan 2013 #36
forestpath Jan 2013 #38
stultusporcos Jan 2013 #39
PatrynXX Jan 2013 #46
Auntie Bush Jan 2013 #48
Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2013 #53
indepat Jan 2013 #50
RKP5637 Jan 2013 #51
iandhr Jan 2013 #54
lonestarnot Jan 2013 #56

Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:23 AM

1. Not really

 

I have enough shit to worry about these days

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Response to NoOneMan (Reply #1)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:24 AM

19. sorry to hear this

and much of my suffering and suffering of friends would be a lot less if the financial picture was more balanced and there was less stress about paying bills and have a good place to live, health car - up to date car etc etc

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Response to mettamega (Reply #19)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:03 AM

31. The numbers are now what, 9-10 years old?

More importantly are uncertainties in the #s.

The US CEO "total compensation" includes health insurance, retirement, and stock/stock options. These things tend to be expensed as cash, with retirement credited at termination of contract or a percentage expensed each year of the contract. Stock options are priced at estimated value when they're redeemable, but that's a guess. Given the turnover in American CEOs, a lot of retirement benefits are cashed out each year.

Some things--cashing out the retirement benefits--takes away money this year that could go to worker salaries. But it means next year that's not an expense.

Other things like stock options cost the company no money and don't take money away from employee salaries. That's the largest chunk of the CEO compensation.

Other things are listed as CEO compensation--health insurance, for example--but not for employees. We hear that middle class salaries dropped in the '00s. But middle class compensation increased by a fair amount. Both are true.

This all matters when we're calculating the numbers, if we want to know what the numbers mean and not just take away some sort of impression.

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Response to Igel (Reply #31)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:11 AM

32. Median income fell last year (& has been falling). So no, 'middle class compensation' hasn't

 

increased 'by a fair amount'.

The median annual household income—the point on the income scale at which half earn more and half earn less—fell in 18 states in 2011 from a year earlier after adjusting for inflation, according to a Census Bureau report to be released Thursday.

Nationally, the median income dropped by 1.3% to $50,502 in 2011. A separate report last week reported a slightly different median income level, but either way, the number is at a level last seen in the mid-1990s, continuing a long period of stagnant or falling wages since an all-time peak in 1999.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443890304578006671572581156.html

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Response to Igel (Reply #31)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:49 PM

52. Accepting the accuracy of your information, one thing is clear,

our privatized health insurance system costs the poor and middle classes far more than we realize.

The CEOs have good health insurance. A lot of working people don't have any health insurance coverage at all, and if they get a little coverage through their work, it doesn't cover their families. That is not always true, but increasingly it is. And worst, the lowest paid people are the least likely to receive health care insurance.

There is no way to get around the absolutely disgusting disparity between the salaries of high- compared to low-paid employees in the US. No way around it.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:27 AM

2. pretty disgusting, isn't it?

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:28 AM

3. Yeah, totally.

That may not be the whole problem but at least it is a HUGE symptom of the problem.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:42 AM

4. K/R (nt)

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:45 AM

5. wow

 

just wow

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:48 AM

6. What's the source of the info? If true, that stinks. How did this happen?

What are the other countries doing that we're not?

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #6)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:51 AM

7. They're not bailing out wall street and corrupt banks and allowing capitalism to take its

 

atrocious self-fulfilling course. Occupy Wall Street were shouting about this since fall two years ago and nothing been done to change it. Matt Taibbi is a good source for articles on this, and why nothing has been done.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #6)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:01 AM

11. Source (2005):

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Response to moondust (Reply #11)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 07:31 PM

47. It is actually down from that, for US CEOs ...

That's a grad school student paper, from students at Louisiana Tech (the Management 510 course is a core course in their MBA program), from 2005.

AFL-CIO estimates it at 380-to-1 for US CEOs (very cool search tool here):
http://www.aflcio.org/Corporate-Watch/CEO-Pay-and-the-99/CEO-to-Worker-Pay-Gap

The Economic Policy Institute pegs it at 231-to-1, down from 411-to-1 at the height of the dotcom bubble:
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/may/02/business/la-fi-mo-us-ceo-pay-231-times-more-than-average-workers-20120502

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Response to SomeGuyInEagan (Reply #47)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 08:08 PM

49. Well, that makes it all fine then.

Even the lowest ratio is out of line from all the other listed countries.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:53 AM

8. Yep.

Very much so. If people don't see the significance of this, they are not paying attention.

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Response to Brigid (Reply #8)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:14 AM

17. Not only are they not paying attention....

...they can't read.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:54 AM

9. Yeah nt

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:55 AM

10. I remember when the Japanese brought this up as an American mistake. We didn't learn.

This comes from the Randian philosophy that began being implemented under Reagan. Romney was the poster boy for it. All or nothing, no social values. Eventually the parasitic rich destroys the host. Reminds me of this speech about what has come to starve us again, but under different names:

FDR at Madison Square Garden, 1936: "The forces of selfishness and of lust for power"

http://www.minnpost.com/politics-policy/2009/05/fdr-madison-square-garden-1936-forces-selfishness-and-lust-power







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Response to freshwest (Reply #10)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:03 AM

12. Brilliant FDR speech. Thanks for the link.

It will be interesting to hear what our President says tomorrow.

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #12)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:14 AM

16. Different generation, not as hard talking as in the past. We're always trying to be neutral as a way

of being non-judgmental and peaceful. I've heard enough from him over the years that is not on the media, that indicates he is in the same place. It won't look the same as in the past, but he's got the basics. So hard to govern and move forward when half the nation doesn't get it or want it, and the half of the other half have no understanding of how to make it happen within our values. We'll get there.


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Response to freshwest (Reply #16)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:25 AM

20. I totally agree with you. I think his heart is there. And he is as frustrated as we are. nt

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #20)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 04:54 PM

41. Thanks, I have seen it for a long time.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #10)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:29 AM

23. That was FDR's 2nd Inaugural Speech, right?

... I heard one of the pundits in the last couple days saying that 2nd Inaugural speeches are normally forgotten. Ha! (as Tweety say it.) WRONG! I about killed myself reaching for the remote! All I can say for that is that this speech will be just as historic as the first, as President Obama will be giving it! And they, the pundits, can do absolutely nothing about it! Me thinks their guilty consciences may be getting to them a wee bit? Shame on our monopolized media!

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Response to ReRe (Reply #23)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 04:55 PM

42. They won't give him any credit - but he blew them away today, didn't he?

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Response to freshwest (Reply #42)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:30 PM

45. Oh, he did...

...my Dear, he did! A very historic speech it was....so historic that they are still trying to decipher it! Our corporate bought-and-paid-for main stream media sucks, big time.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:11 AM

13. That's what happens when you bail out Wall Street and ignore Main Street

The government will make sure the rich won't fall. They have gotten to where they are too big to fail. Allowing the corrupt banks and corporations to fail would bring down the entire financial system and hurt the poor and middle class. It's at a point now that removing the cancer may very well kill the patient.

This is a very serious problem for this country's future. Our wealth disparity between the rich and poor is going to continue to worsen.

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #13)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:28 AM

22. and this is what happens when people vote in pro-corporate, anti-labor legislators in both parties

nt

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Response to antigop (Reply #22)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 04:57 PM

43. Or stay home as some did in 2010.



Dump the Tea Party in the water in 2014.


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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:13 AM

14. "Number of working poor families grows as wealth gap widens"

 

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12524990

Content of the above link:

OccupyPhoenix ‏@occupyphoenix

The working poor get poorer! “@Reuters: Number of working poor families grows as wealth gap widens http://reut.rs/13xEqor

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/15/us-usa-economy-workingpoor-idUSBRE90E05520130115

More working parents have taken jobs as cashiers, maids, waiters and other low-wage jobs in fast growing sectors that offer fewer hours and benefits, according to The Working Poor Project, a privately funded effort aimed at improving economic security for low-income families.

The result is 200,000 more such working families - the so-called "working poor" - emerged in 2011 than in 2010, according to the report, based on analysis of the most recent U.S. Census Bureau data.

About 10.4 million such families - or 47.5 million Americans - now live near poverty, defined as earning less than 200 percent of the official poverty rate, which is $22,811 for a family of four.

Overall, nearly one-third of working families now struggle, up from 31 percent in 2010 and 28 percent in 2007, when the recession began, according to the analysis.

(More at the link.)

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:14 AM

15. And those same rich US CEOs want to force the rest of us to retire later

What should they care if the average American is forced to work until their last dying breath...

Wealthy CEOs Want To Force Americans To Retire Later

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Response to supertascha (Reply #15)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:46 AM

26. I think their intent is

to make us work harder so that we do drop dead on the job and much sooner than we could retire... raising the age of eligibility would ensure that. Talk about death panels, aka the banksters.

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Response to supertascha (Reply #15)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:51 AM

28. And they won't hire people over 49!

Go figure!

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:14 AM

18. How do you fix it? None of those CEOs will take a pay cut without a fight.

In fact, they will work hard to cut the pay of the average worker. If they could pay workers less than minimum wage, they would.

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Response to tclambert (Reply #18)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:45 AM

25. Immediately eliminate the "Citizens United" ruling. Immediately reinstate Glass-Steagall.

 

Immediately demand all bailout monies be returned, potentially with interest. Investigate and prosecute wall street and corrupt banks/banksters. Ban "right to work" laws and strengthen unions. Raise the minimum wage to $15.00 / hour.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #25)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:13 AM

33. Sounds like a plan. nt

 

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #25)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:00 PM

44. That sounds about right

and maybe a large "service charge" TAX to those companies and individuals who benefited from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #25)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:48 PM

55. That approach worked very well in Iceland - Google it.

 

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:28 AM

21. oh I have a BIG problem with it.

Explains so much.

This needs to go to the greatest page. !!!!

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:33 AM

24. The only problem I have with it is...

K&R

...that it's true. If we was up there under Canada (like 20:1), this country would not be in the basement like it is. Corporations ARE NOT PEOPLE.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:50 AM

27. Any entity that is ir has been called

"too big to fail or prosecute" should be nationalized. That could resolve a pile of issues immediately... and all excessive funds transferred into all social safety net and reconfiguration of infrastructure to more sustainable systems funding.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:56 AM

29. who won uhhhhhmerican idol?

 

did you know my new smartphone can take pictures of my dumps and post them to facebook?

OOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! cat pictures!

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:02 AM

30. Yeah, "it's the union's fault"

Isn't that the lie that's been shoved down our throats for the last 30 years? Too many people believed it.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:32 AM

34. But CEO'S work 475 times harder than the average worker!

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Response to Wednesdays (Reply #34)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:59 AM

40. HAHAHAHAHA

Back in the 80s I worked for an insurance company for a year. The bread and butter of the outfit was an army of door to door salesmen who busted their chops out in the hinterlands convincing John Q Public to buy their policies. I worked in the personnel dept. in the corporate headquarters a few blocks from the beach in Santa Monica. I was privy to the salaries of everybody in the company. The salesmen were strictly on commission - 40/60 split with the company. The office staff was paid close to minimum wage and were treated like slaves. The managers, however, who basically sat around on their asses and planned vacations, all made 6 figures and were awarded with generous quarterly bonuses. However, the two guys at the top lived better than most movie stars. Private jets, helicopters to transport them from office to home, salaries of 50K a month each plus multi-million dollar bonuses. It was an eye opener. The following year I went back to teaching. Crappy pay but no arrogant asshole bigshots.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:41 AM

35. I've been unemployed for 6 months (I did have 3 months of severance)...

...and this is pissing me off, because the CEO was an arrogant screw up.
It's now time that I am looking for work many miles away, and many dollars less.
Underemployed, I believe it's called.
Never thought I'd be here, but..."hello recession."

...I just want to add that EDD (unemployment) is very stressful to deal with in itself. If it's not enough that you're down on yourself for being out of work, the EDD makes you feel like slime. I guess that's probably for the best, so folks don't get comfortable getting unemployment—as if I could get comfortable not being able to pay the mortgage at less than 1/2 my old salary. :/

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Response to lexw (Reply #35)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:46 AM

37. The CEO or management screw ups - that are the reason for

so many job losses - never get any media attention. And the elite protect their own. 3 years ago upper management closed the division of the company my engineer spouse worked for. No fault of his. Managers had failed to do their job. All the worker bees were let go. My then 59-year-old husband was left to fend for himself. The managers who had screwed up were simply transferred to other divisions - high salaries and perks intact. After 6 months, husband finally found a job at another poorly run outfit. Had to take a 40% cut in pay. Sucks to be a corporate slave in America.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 03:22 AM

36. See? American exceptionalism

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:47 AM

38. It's OBSCENE.

 

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:49 AM

39. Pretty good deal if you are the CEO

 

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 06:36 PM

46. wonder where finlind is in that

had someone move there to restart his life...

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 07:50 PM

48. All thatmoney they get should have been disbursed to the share holders.

That would help out the middle class...instead of the evil bastards that hog everything for themselves...then bemoan the thoughts of paying higher taxes

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Response to Auntie Bush (Reply #48)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 10:54 PM

53. Actually, it should go into payroll....

The problem is the standard business model now is to pile on duties onto workers until one worker now does the work of five and then they want that worker to live in fear of losing their job so they are willing to work for dirt pay.

You can be in a really responsible position that took years to perfect with an impressive title and get great evaluations, be the "go to" person other employees turn to and still be treated by upper management as if you can be replaced tomorrow by a random burger flipper.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 08:19 PM

50. CEOs not only get paid 475 times as much, but only a minuscule portion of that pay is subject to

to payroll taxes, and most of the CEOs, like Warren Buffett, probably pay a smaller percentage of their income to Uncle Sam than do their secretaries. Yet the domestic right-wing extremists demand social security and Medicare be slashed, claiming the recently enacted modest income tax increases on the most affluent settle the revenue issue.

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 08:25 PM

51. Go USA !!! Go USA !!! Go USA !!!

We're #1 in something!

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:27 PM

54. Of course

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Response to Playinghardball (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:51 PM

56. My ass chapped off many years ago.

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