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Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:05 PM

To all anti-Obama posters

I posted this in reply to another thread, but I thought it deserved a post of it's own:

As far as progressing the Liberal agenda, I'm sure he will do more during his second term. He has already begun sparring more with the Republicans realizing that they are not going to compromise the way that one would expect from a rational party. He has already ended DADT and has given every indication that he hopes to lead the fight to end DOMA including instructing the DOJ that he considers it unconstitutional. However, that is up to SCOTUS and/or Congress to actually end it.

As for the renewed PATRIOT Act, what a lot of people don't realize is that he renewed a few provisions of PATRIOT Act 2, which is vastly different from the original and which he actually voted for as Senator .

As for the drone program, I really don't understand why people are so dead-set against it when it has greatly reduced the numbers of "collateral damage". It's certainly not perfect, but it's the best we've ever had in the past. As for the war, Obama didn't start it, but he is working hard to stop it. Remember, there were 2 wars when he took over.

As for GITMO, he ordered it closed. It was the NIMBY's in Congress that stopped the XO and kept GITMO open.

I'm sorry that he is NOT a dictator that gives you every thing you want - no, scratch that - I am very glad that he is NOT a dictator.

86 replies, 5755 views

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Arrow 86 replies Author Time Post
Reply To all anti-Obama posters (Original post)
NashvilleLefty Jan 2013 OP
Hekate Jan 2013 #1
Still Sensible Jan 2013 #2
MotherPetrie Jan 2013 #3
NashvilleLefty Jan 2013 #10
busterbrown Jan 2013 #25
Major Nikon Jan 2013 #53
chervilant Jan 2013 #80
Major Nikon Jan 2013 #82
Enrique Jan 2013 #4
NashvilleLefty Jan 2013 #11
R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2013 #26
Skittles Jan 2013 #32
demmiblue Jan 2013 #5
WorseBeforeBetter Jan 2013 #6
demmiblue Jan 2013 #8
WorseBeforeBetter Jan 2013 #9
demmiblue Jan 2013 #12
WorseBeforeBetter Jan 2013 #15
NashvilleLefty Jan 2013 #18
demmiblue Jan 2013 #20
NashvilleLefty Jan 2013 #23
demmiblue Jan 2013 #35
NashvilleLefty Jan 2013 #43
Glaug-Eldare Jan 2013 #57
Comrade_McKenzie Jan 2013 #7
Bonobo Jan 2013 #13
graham4anything Jan 2013 #14
NashvilleLefty Jan 2013 #16
pasto76 Jan 2013 #29
NashvilleLefty Jan 2013 #37
Bonobo Jan 2013 #41
bahrbearian Jan 2013 #70
pasto76 Jan 2013 #81
bahrbearian Jan 2013 #84
coalition_unwilling Jan 2013 #34
grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #17
NashvilleLefty Jan 2013 #19
leftstreet Jan 2013 #21
NashvilleLefty Jan 2013 #24
leftstreet Jan 2013 #38
GeorgeGist Jan 2013 #58
flvegan Jan 2013 #22
iamthebandfanman Jan 2013 #28
NashvilleLefty Jan 2013 #31
leftstreet Jan 2013 #36
obxhead Jan 2013 #27
pasto76 Jan 2013 #33
NashvilleLefty Jan 2013 #39
obxhead Jan 2013 #86
Skittles Jan 2013 #30
NashvilleLefty Jan 2013 #40
Skittles Jan 2013 #42
NashvilleLefty Jan 2013 #45
redgreenandblue Jan 2013 #59
Marrah_G Jan 2013 #64
Vic Vinegar Jan 2013 #44
NashvilleLefty Jan 2013 #46
Bobbie Jo Jan 2013 #73
emulatorloo Jan 2013 #76
Arcanetrance Jan 2013 #47
DearHeart Jan 2013 #48
green for victory Jan 2013 #63
alarimer Jan 2013 #71
DearHeart Jan 2013 #79
Fire Walk With Me Jan 2013 #49
forestpath Jan 2013 #69
NashvilleLefty Jan 2013 #50
Common Sense Party Jan 2013 #56
Fumesucker Jan 2013 #62
Marrah_G Jan 2013 #65
ReRe Jan 2013 #51
NashvilleLefty Jan 2013 #52
Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2013 #54
green for victory Jan 2013 #55
bowens43 Jan 2013 #60
stultusporcos Jan 2013 #61
NCTraveler Jan 2013 #66
Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #67
99Forever Jan 2013 #68
Capt. Obvious Jan 2013 #72
whatchamacallit Jan 2013 #74
KG Jan 2013 #75
Dragonfli Jan 2013 #77
Vinnie From Indy Jan 2013 #78
nolabels Jan 2013 #83
kjackson227 Jan 2013 #85

Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:07 PM

1. I'll give you a KnR for good effort

Thanks

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Response to Hekate (Reply #1)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:09 PM

2. + 1 n/t

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:10 PM

3. I believe in nuance - I voted for Obama and donated to his campaign.

 

But I will continue to criticize him when I oppose his actions or his administration's actions.

I will also continue to hold him to the same standards to which I held Bush. If I objected to it when Bush did it, I won't try to justify it when Obama does it.

If that makes me anti-Obama, so be it and deal with it.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #3)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:35 PM

10. That's fair. I am not supporting Obama worship.

Please do hold him to the same standards that you did Bush.

But please do not succumb to the Obama = Bush mindset simply because you don't get everything you want.

There is a big difference between holding his feet to the fire and dissing him completely.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #3)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:40 PM

25. Iíll tell you this..

If Obama made any moves in reducing any proactive military programs he would have been absolutely blasted by half the country in his first 4 years. They wanted to paint him as weak Jimmy Carter Liberal
so badly which might have scared middle roaders who ended up supporting him in the last election...
If America is attacked in the next 4 years and if Obama has ended the Drone Program, the democratic
party will take a huge hit!!!

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Response to busterbrown (Reply #25)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:53 AM

53. The problem is half the country is ate up with the dumass

The problem isn't with Obama directly. At some point Obama is constrained by what he can and can't accomplish.

Jimmy Carter was right all along which is one lesson America never learned. Jimmy Carter knew the Soviet Union was swirling the drain because the CIA annual reports had been telling him that. It was the Neocons who came up with their own fucked up, completely misguided assessment of the Soviet Union. The result was the Raygun resurgence of the cold war which cost trillions which we flushed down the drain. After not learning that lesson, Bush and the Neocons once again cost us even more trillions with the fucked up idea of bombing people into Democracy.

Meanwhile half the country can't understand why Europe looks at us like we're fucking idiots.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #53)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 07:26 PM

80. Half?

I say more than half. Actually, I agree with Hofstadter on the percentage of anti-intellectuals and with Kohlberg re: the high percentage of adults who are morally and emotionally at the level of the average 13 YO. Throw in the vast number of US citizens who cling vociferously to their religious mythology, and why is anyone surprised by the antics of the Teabaggers and their ilk?

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Response to chervilant (Reply #80)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 10:16 PM

82. I think half is about right, but probably a quarter are tolerant of the dumass

If it were just half or less that wouldn't be so bad, but you have plenty more who are ambivalent to dumass. When dumass gets a seat at the table, we all lose. That's what separates the US and Europe. Although they may occassionally do dumass things, dumass doesn't get a voice in the interest of "ballance".

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:18 PM

4. what's an anti-Obama poster?

someone who still has the same values as they did before 2008?

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Response to Enrique (Reply #4)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:37 PM

11. I don't know. What were your values?

And were they able to be accomplished or simply "pie in the sky"?

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Reply #11)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:41 PM

26. Wait. You started this thread with "To all anti-Obama posters..."


You're asked, what's an anti-Obama poster, and you answer with "I don't know?"



At least stand up for what you believe in.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #26)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:45 PM

32. don't ask him to think

he may never recover

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:19 PM

5. To all 'gee I guess I might have been a rapist, but it was normal/expected' posters... FU. n/t

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Response to demmiblue (Reply #5)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:22 PM

6. I'll second that. (n/t)

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Response to WorseBeforeBetter (Reply #6)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:27 PM

8. I'll third it (although it totally goes against the thirdiness of it all, since I was the firsty).

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Response to demmiblue (Reply #8)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:31 PM

9. Howdee...

and Happy Inauguration Weekend!

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Response to WorseBeforeBetter (Reply #9)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:37 PM

12. A no-Mitt inauguration is a mighty fine inauguration, indeed!

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Response to demmiblue (Reply #12)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:50 PM

15. Oh, yeah. And no Queen Ann... I may have disliked her more than Mittens!

Or maybe it was a tie. (A $200 Charvet tie, knowing them...)

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Response to demmiblue (Reply #5)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:02 PM

18. So, you believe

that people cannot change? that we never learn from life lessons?

I am not that same person. I have grown. I was hoping to use my experience to stimulate discussion to allow others to grow, too. I am sorry that you are so purist in your acceptance of others that you cannot accept others that try to admit their former faults.

I'm sorry I'm not "perfect" like you.

Yes, I've done bad things in my past, but I am a different person now. Can you not accept me as I am now?

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Reply #18)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:13 PM

20. You see what you did there? Deflect away. BTW, no one is without faults. n/t

edit: I don't think you learned anything.

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Response to demmiblue (Reply #20)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:36 PM

23. Thank you, NO ONE is without faults.

and if I hadn't learned anything, would I be posting NOW that I was wrong - that my behavior was wrong?

I am trying to teach future generations NOT to do what I have done. Despite peer pressure and other mitigating factors. I am admitting that I succumbed to those mitigating factors, and that I was wrong in doing so.

True Leftists would accept me for admitting that I was wrong, and would accept my message as a warning for all. I can understand that former victims would be accepting. But for those who claim to be part of the "big tent" to apply a purity test and reject such converts as my self is - ridiculous.

I was wrong. I changed. Am I not accepted because I once was wrong? That goes against everything I have come to believe about Leftism and the Democratic Party. I thought that what ever i believed NOW was important, not what I believed in the past.

And yet YOU decided to hold my past against me.

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Reply #23)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:49 PM

35. You raped unconcious young women, now you are pulling the purity/big tent card.

This is why you have no credibility. You blame yourself, but you blame everyone else two-fold.

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Response to demmiblue (Reply #35)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:17 AM

43. Because you can read minds?

Yes, I blame myself. Yes, I blame my environment. Yes, I blame a thousand other things that you obviously don't understand but that I want to warn others against so they won't do the things that I have done.

Judge me all you want, but you have never walked a mile in my moccasins.

You totally missed my point - I was trying to make sure that others would not make the mistakes I made. You immediately accused me. I was trying to teach understanding, acceptance and forgiveness, while you teach "purity tests" and rejection.

You missed my point entirely. Which is sad for you.

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Reply #18)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 04:08 AM

57. AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

Mail Message
At Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:39 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

So, you believe
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2227166

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

This poster has previously (in another thread) declared himself to have been a potential rapist during his youth and is now accusing someone of being a "purist" for not being "accepting" of his announcement that he has changed. This is insensitive, hurtful and inappropriate. I should also add that this whole thread is nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt at shit-stirring.


You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:54 AM, and the Jury voted 2-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: The post and thread is an opinion nothing more. The alerting member needs to take a breath.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: Personal attack, continuing an argument from another thread
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: Yeah, I remember this asshole. Should have been ppr'd then.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I'd hide #5 long before I'd hide #18.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I don't see anything wrong with the post. I see no evidence of the claim the alerter asserted.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:22 PM

7. We should take a holiday from critcizing the President tomorrow. It's a big day for the country. nt

 

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:39 PM

13. "greatly reduced the numbers of "collateral damage"."

Who are we at war again?

And how will we know when it is done?

Please answer those simple questions so that I know you really have thought this through.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #13)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:42 PM

14. when the NRA is dead, and the last gun is off the street. Never rest before then.

 

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #13)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:52 PM

16. Well, that's just it. None of those answers are simple.

It's a very complicated issue.

I think that's the point. It's far from simple.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #13)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:42 PM

29. as somebody who _lived_ it, Im telling that is so

how many HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of Iraqi civilians did we kill during the occupation? How many tens of thousands in Afghanistan?

this is definitely one of those issues that separates liberals from democrats. Liberals are 'anti-war' without knowing what it smells like, what it sounds like. What is feels like to live with it.

*I* am anti war. YOU are theoretically opposed to it.

The separation is that I know there are bad guys all over the world. Really bad guys. Ruthless. Immoral. Fanatical. Insane. Driven by ego and power. They are a danger to everybody on this planet. Often they have chosen to target the US and it's citizens.

Liberals think it's just a matter of perception. AQ has been on its heels now for 4 years. -Primarily- because of President Obama's very effective use of our drones. He took the mess that was the Bush program and made it effective. But I know that many of you think 'AQ type' is just jargon. rhetoric. hyperbole, even. Ive seen in person firsthand what they do to make examples of people. Drones are just a tool. Part of the machine that is very much keeping you safe. Killing OBL was another part. Withdrawing from Iraq another. Being the Good Guy in the middle east is another - via Secretary Clinton.

So when you ask, with your air of superiority, "with WHOM are we at war?" it makes me sick. We're not at "war" with anyone. But we are using a lot of our military might to snuff out people who are the most dangerous type of radical there is. If these guys were any manner of savage noble as some here suggest, they wouldnt live and hide in the population. They know full well that any strikes against them will kill civilians, and they use that to further their propaganda. And the President doesnt order a drone attack on jaywalkers. The targets are operational players in terrorist networks. They are THAT dangerous. Like it or not American lives are worth more than their. American lives are worth the collateral. If you think that President Obama LIKES killing people, then you are blinded by some of your own ideology. My troops suffered 8 years of a president who could give a fuck what happened to us. What happens to us weighs heavily on this President.

He's beaten the repukes at their game. They are backing down on almost everything. The President is a mack daddy. Perish the thought that he might actually know what to do regarding global terrorism.

But lemme say it like this. I left the army in 2007 because of how badly Bush was running the wars. I re-enlisted in 2010 because the change under President Obama was THAT encouraging.

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Response to pasto76 (Reply #29)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:51 PM

37. Thank you, for more than I can say

I appreciate you commenting on my thread, but obviously there is so much MORE there is to thank you for.

first of all, thank you for allowing me to say this.

Second of all - oh, fuck it! THANK YOU!

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Response to pasto76 (Reply #29)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:06 AM

41. You think being in the military gives you a perspective on what is "real"

I think it makes you "real fucked up".

I could care less about what makes you sick because what makes me sick is that you think you are entitled to decide what "bad people" are.

NEWSFLASH: To many of the people that have been killed in the ME, YOU are the "bad guy" and so is the rest if America by extension.

Now TRY to get your head around that, buster, cause it is another "truth".

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Response to pasto76 (Reply #29)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 10:24 AM

70. *I* am anti war.

So did you refuse to Fight? Deploy? Serve? If NO you are not ant-war, you are a War-enabler.

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Response to bahrbearian (Reply #70)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 07:42 PM

81. no clown. Ive seen firsthand what it does to regular people.

But unlike you, I am willing to fight as the last resort.

Like I said above, if you havent been there, all of your hyperbole is merely theoretical. Let me know when you still have nightmares 10 years later. Then you'll be in my club.

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Response to pasto76 (Reply #81)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 09:17 AM

84. So Clown, You are Pro-War,, What was the last resort you were fighting for?

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #13)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:48 PM

34. Silly Bonobo, don't you know they're terrorists disguised as

 

children?

in case it's needed for this obviously jejeune OP.

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:57 PM

17. NOBODY here is anti-Obama. I'm sick of this obfuscation. We are anti-torture, war, plutocracy,

crapsurance, big pharma, corporate welfare, bankster ripp-offs, and those who would destroy the Democratic party.

NO ONE IS ANTI OBAMA!!!!

It's the policies, sir.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #17)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:08 PM

19. well, you could've fooled me.

So many times the policies are equated with the person.

But everyone should remember is that "policies" are determined by humans, and humans are fallible beings. Well, unless you are an Evangelist who believes that all policies are determined by God and therefore are perfect.

Policies are easy - enforcing them and making them work in the modern world are another matter entirely.

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Reply #19)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:18 PM

21. Prove it

So many times the policies are equated with the person.


Bullshit

Show us links to all these 'many times' members here have equated Obama to his admin's policies

Take your time

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Response to leftstreet (Reply #21)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:39 PM

24. I would gladly, but it's so prevalent here

that it would take too long.

Have you READ DU?

Please prove that it has not!

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Reply #24)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:52 PM

38. So you can't prove it

meh

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Reply #24)


Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:22 PM

22. "the liberal agenda"???

Almost 1,000 posts. Nice work.

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Response to flvegan (Reply #22)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:42 PM

28. but they have

the word 'lefty' in their name..
surely you arent suggesting what i think you are...
lol

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Response to flvegan (Reply #22)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:44 PM

31. Ahh, your point?



Are you implying that I am some kind of troll with that post number comment?

Please review my posts and then repeat your comment.

I think you will find that your implications are very, very unfounded. Even if you do not agree with this immediate post.

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Reply #31)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:51 PM

36. 'liberal agenda' is a rightwing talking point

Since you're new here, you probably didn't know that

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:41 PM

27. You almost had me until

you said:

"As for the war, Obama didn't start it, but he is working hard to stop it. Remember, there were 2 wars when he took over."

Yeah, he's had to work really hard to follow the timelines set up by the previous administration.

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Response to obxhead (Reply #27)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:46 PM

33. you know damn well that McCain would have kept us in Iraq

"Yeah, he's had to work really hard to follow the timelines set up by the previous administration."

sure. When every single republican in the country was calling him a coward. And then there was the stab in the back by numerous people here on DU who almost immediately started calling the "Obama's Wars". Awesome.

But then again, I dont think I ran into you over there, did I.

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Response to pasto76 (Reply #33)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:01 AM

39. THANK YOU!

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Response to pasto76 (Reply #33)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 12:05 AM

86. ffs

You put your own words into my post.

I did NOT say McCain would have done better or worse. All I said is that Obama didn't do anything to accelerate the timelines set by the previous administration.

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:44 PM

30. "progressing the liberal agenda?"

please

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Response to Skittles (Reply #30)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:05 AM

40. Actually, skittles, you were one of the ones

I was talking to!

You seem to always spin things against Obama, but you have never EVER given a reasonable alternative.

You seem to just hate Obama and all his policies because they are practical and not extreme enough.
Much like many others here. Which are the ones I was talking to.
Change doesn't come in a day.

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Reply #40)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:16 AM

42. you do not fool me for one second

please; enough already

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Response to Skittles (Reply #42)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:22 AM

45. And exactly HOW am I suppoed to be

"fooling" you?

I think this is the epicenter -

you think you are being "fooled"

Why? What are your expectations and why do you have them?

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Response to Skittles (Reply #42)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:19 AM

59. +1

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Reply #40)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 08:58 AM

64. Really... you think SKITTLES is anti-Obama?



Just adding lefty to the end of you name doesn't make it so.

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:21 AM

44. Obama is the next Herbert Hoover

I am not saying Obama can't do better because he can. Obama MUST do something to stop the disintegration of the world economy! He MUST implement a New Deal but if he doesn't then he is not a great president--he is just a Hoover.

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Response to Vic Vinegar (Reply #44)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:24 AM

46. Oh, c'mon.

Obama is Herbert Hoover?

Don't be ridiculous.

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Response to Vic Vinegar (Reply #44)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:05 AM

73. What a stupid post.

Did you really type that with a straight face?

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Response to Vic Vinegar (Reply #44)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:45 PM

76. Classic DU "I live in a Bubble" bs hyperbole.

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:30 AM

47. This was a reply to me in another thread

As I said I'm not anti Obama but I object to his policies on domestic spying and I have been since before him and will be after him I hold him to a higher standard because he's a Democrat because he's a liberal because he's the president that's supposed to represent our ideology as Democrats

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:36 AM

48. "Liberal agenda"???

Ask yourself this! Would you want someone from say, Iran, or Saudi Arabia, or China, or North Korea, or any other country, to use drones on your house/neighborhood, simply because they "believed" that the terrorists they are looking for, might be hiding in the house next to yours? Would it be ok with you, if your family and friends were taken out by a drone (if they were collateral damage), while at a family wedding or funeral? We tried the captured Nazis and the Japanese in court, sucks that most were kangaroo courts, but they had their day in court, these people being killed by drones, are guilty and sentenced to death without it ever being known if they were the people we were "hunting" for and most of the people being killed aren't terrorists, they are women and children!

We have an obligation to question every action made by this and any other President, Senator, Congressman, Supreme Court judge, etc. We do NOT live in a dictatorship and therefore, we do NOT have to agree with everything that President Obama does or says! When I feel that President Obama is doing well, I will applaud him, but when I feel that he is doing something that I find questionable or unjustified, or beyond the scope of the office, I will criticize him. I don't care if that makes me a "Liberal" who is trying to "progess the liberal agenda", that is my G-Damned right as a U.S. citizen; that right was paid for by my family members in the American Revolution, the Civil War, WWI and WWII!

Here's a quote from Teddy Roosevelt that you should ponder...

"The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else."

"Roosevelt in the Kansas City Star", 149
May 7, 1918

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Response to DearHeart (Reply #48)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 08:54 AM

63. +a million

 

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Response to DearHeart (Reply #48)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 10:48 AM

71. I'm with you.

It is disheartening to me to see how lockstep Democrats can be. If Bush had done the things Obama has done (mostly the drone attacks) we would be screaming here. Instead, it seems to be okay among some, but certainly not all, liberals or progressives.


I'm not watching the inauguration because, quite frankly, I'm tired of Obama. I'm held my nose to vote for him, but I think he is not the second coming of anything. What we need is FDR, someone not afraid to stand up to moneyed interests. What we got was Herbert Hoover or Calvin Coolidge.

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Response to alarimer (Reply #71)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:33 PM

79. I am with you on this one! We need an FDR...that's what I thought I was voting for in Obama 2008

I know he's done some good things...I give his props for some things, but the others, like the drones and his "kill list", I have a problem with!

Unfortunately, looking down the road to 2016, I dont see any FDR types waiting in line. I hope I'm overlooking someone. I hope that Obama will do what the voters wanted and we wanted an FDR!!

Frankly, it scares me when people start marching lockstep behind anyone! But, I can really be a nervous Nellie!

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:38 AM

49. Those are surface considerations.

 

-The NDAA has been signed AGAIN with its provision for the indefinite detention of US citizens without trial or representation. Chris Hedges and others sued the government and won; Section 1021 was struck down as unConstitutional. Then the government sent lawyers and had the unConstitutional ruling overturned. Now it's been signed again, and no, despite "contructive" input from representatives, it's the same unConstitutional monstrosity it was when first signed into law two New Years' Eves ago.
-The NDAA is a potential provision for expanding the "war on drugs" and the for-profit prison industrial complex. "Americans as terrorists" is a wonderful new market being opened by arms dealers and military gear developers (who also paid big money to get "yes" votes for the NDAA, with resultant contracts).
-The drone program provides for the summary execution of any deemed terrorists or associated with terrorism. No trial, no due process, just death. Drones are being used in five or more countries and more than 100 children have been killed. They are creating fear and resentment (read: more terrorists). They are terrorism, which the FBI defines as the use and/or threat of force to get people to change a political position.
-The drone program is being expanded within the US with 64 bases under construction and sheriff's departments rolling out their spying machines for all to ooh and aah over. The 4th Amendment please. And NO, they are not needed at all, whatsoever.
-The DHS are passing along military gear to SWAT and police agencies, slowly militarizing police departments.
-The DHS, under the "iWatch" program, have turned police departments into tentacles. "See something, say something", they recommend. I see an encroaching police state and a massive power grab.
-This is still about the neocon "project for a new American century" power grab and the endless war budget craved by the military industrial complex. Of course you won't hear much about either of these items; they're the men behind the curtain but we can certainly see their effects. No one contests the MIC.
-The TSA have just begun showing up on trains and express further expansion. "Stop and frisk" is unConstitutional but there it is because "Americans are terrorists".
-Microphones are being installed on buses to capture citizens' conversations. Where is the 4th Amendment.
-Just signed into law: permanent secret service protection for George W. Bush. Along with HR347, this makes it a 10-year federal offence to protest him (when SS are present, as they now always will be). Where is the 1st Amendment.
-Occupy have shown that there is an enormous income inequality in this country, which has been continuing unchecked. This week a report has been issued regarding corporations seeing a 171% rise in profits.
-Goldman Sachs now have personnel in power in Greece and Italy and are poised to infiltrate other countries through the disaster capitalism power grab known as "austerity". They're unchecked within the US as well. Why?
-Wall Street are rolling along as if nothing has happened, unregulated, unpunished. Why?

How is it that I see a very different government than others, while studying the same one? I've posted about the vast majority of these issues here in GD or in the Occupy Underground sub-forum (required because GD is too hostile to OWS concerns...!!!). If republicans did these items listed above, we'd be screaming in the streets. Democrats do them and they're barely discussed. I risk PRR status for contesting the belief that everything is all right. It most definitely is not. March upon a bank as peaceful, 1st Amendment protesters and you will be met with militarized police, potentially beaten and jailed. Stand at an intersection with banners and bullhorns for hours on end, and you'll see nary a single cop.

Strange days indeed.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #49)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 10:11 AM

69. +1

 

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:44 AM

50. To all who object to my use of certain terms

such as "Liberal agenda" and note that they are common terms used by RW sources -

Maybe, but they have become common terms used by BOTH the Left and the Right, and they are NOT prima facie evidence of someone being a "troll".

The one thing I have noticed recently is the rapid accusation of being a "troll".

Now, I recognize that there are a lot of trolls who have joined DU since the election, but the accusations have been much more rampant and often replace sincere and honest discussion. There has only been one truly effective troll at DU since I have begun lurking at DU, and that was the troll who ended up killing Andy Stephenson.

Andy died of cancer, but there is some question whether he would have lived if the procedure had not been delayed by the @ssholes at scamdy.com. I think they are murderers. I will never forgive them.

But if you want to argue against my logic, then argue logically. I can understand if you have emotional attitudes, but we need to work through those to seek the logical attitudes lying beneath them.

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Reply #50)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:41 AM

56. I've never heard anyone on "the Left" use the term "Liberal agenda." Neither have you, I'm guessing,

but feel free to provide some links to prove me wrong.

You signed up last year, and yet you know all about Andy Stephenson. You must have been "lurking" a very looooong time indeed. What finally brought you out of the shadows?

And you never answered my question on the rape thread...back then, at the youthful age when you were placing your pecker where you had no right to...if you had passed out, and some guy did to you what you did to innocent young women, and you later found out about it, would you have thought that you had been raped? Wronged? Violated? I'm not talking about you now, in the present--I mean back then. If some guy had had his way with you while you were passed out, what would your reaction have been once you found out.

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Reply #50)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 06:52 AM

62. Yep, just like gays use the term "The Gay Agenda" n/t

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Reply #50)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:02 AM

65. You signed up in 2012 and you are here invoking Andy? Really?

I'm going to put you on ignore now. I've no need of your shit stirring in my life.

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:45 AM

51. Wow,,,

...someone must have really turned you the wrong way today... Maybe you ran upon someone who was overly sensitive to something you said or maybe it was the other way around, or both?

I can see both sides of this argument. I love Obama. I also am a bit concerned about the things you mentioned in your post. But I don't wear my dislikes on my sleeve. And I know that "Rome wasn't built in a day." GWB was in there for an unGodly 8 years screwing this government up from one end to the other. It's going to take some time, especially with a House of do-nothing Republican wingnuts, to get anything substantially undone.

We're all Democrats. Maybe we all should cool it a little bit and be tolerant of each others views. In the words of Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?"
And in the words of MLK Jr: "...be fierce, but be kind..."
Happy Inauguration Day to you and to all!!!

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Response to ReRe (Reply #51)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:48 AM

52. Thank you! I couldn't agree more!

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:01 AM

54. No, he didn't start the war in Afghanistan. But, he did escalate it.

As he said he would in his 2008 campaign. After that proved to be another fiasco he's finally getting out of another lost war.

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:18 AM

55. To all who have made politics about the person and not the policy

 

you have got what you wanted.

Tick Tock



Wanna buy some insurance?

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 06:09 AM

60. so we should bend over and kiss his ass when he fucks up? No thanks.

I am so sick and tired this kind of crap. If Obama barbecued live babies on the white house lawn and fed them to Bo there are those here who would be just fine with it.......

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Response to bowens43 (Reply #60)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 06:27 AM

61. +1000000 Cheerleading is not good nor healthy for a free people but sadly that is what

 

politics in America has become.

When elected or appointed officials, no matter what party, does something that I am against I will speak out and I speak out even louder and more frequently when the person claims to be a member of the same party I belong to.

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:23 AM

66. Liberal Agenda?

Last edited Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:55 AM - Edit history (1)

I bet you were a hoot in college.

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:44 AM

67. Let me get this 'straight'. Obama ended DADT, but Congress will end DOMA? Congress ended DADT.

Cake and eat it too crap is just lazy and does not help you sell the fiction you are making here. Blech.

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:48 AM

68. "anti-Obama posters"

"the Liberal agenda"





"I am not a crook."- Richard M. Nixon

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 10:57 AM

72. LOL!!!

Well, that takes care of that.

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:37 AM

74. What's with all these newecomers named lefty, leftist, liberal...

and why do they presume to tell me what to think?

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:10 PM

75. oh, look. a scolding. how quaint.

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:04 PM

77. There is a difference between criticizing the continuance of Bush policies

and being "anti-Obama".

The former I have fought against for 12 years now and watched as the unconstitutional theories of Cheney and Lew have not only been continued but further justified by SECRET rationalizations that appear to simply claim they are "legally unconstitutional".

The latter assumes I care enough about one personality to hold a vendetta against him, he is not all that, he is just a man, one that appears to believe in a two tired justice system where torture and mass murder are above the law as is stealing billions, laundering drug cartel money and committing treason, as long as you are among the political or financial elite.

While us lesser beings (the non-rich) face serious jail time for selling medicine to people legally in places like California, or stealing food (shoplifting is a felony, destroying an economy and stealing trillions in retirement money is cause for financial reward)

I am also not a large fan of Reagan style economics as they are starving us to death while the rich become obscenely richer. Obama's chosen financial team believe in the same voodoo that Reagan did.

I care more about my country and my neighbors, not about one man. Idolize him or anyone else as is your right, but don't stomp your feet if I care about the people over the prophet you have apparently canonized.

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:16 PM

78. So many sheriffs around here!

Cheers!

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 10:29 PM

83. So do you go looking for someone to pick a beef with often?

I really kind of like President Obama. He has brought back in style a lot of the good music from the 60's and 70's and is a good ambassador for basketball too.

Now if everybody else would just get a clue for how much the corporate borg has sucked him into the machine there would be a lot less grumbling at this time

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 09:24 AM

85. +1

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