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Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:30 AM

A gun in the home......

28 replies, 1918 views

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Arrow 28 replies Author Time Post
Reply A gun in the home...... (Original post)
DainBramaged Jan 2013 OP
MotherPetrie Jan 2013 #1
MightyMopar Jan 2013 #2
ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #8
MightyMopar Jan 2013 #24
ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #25
Duckhunter935 Jan 2013 #26
Pete Cortez Jan 2013 #3
DainBramaged Jan 2013 #4
spanone Jan 2013 #10
DainBramaged Jan 2013 #5
Pete Cortez Jan 2013 #6
Duckhunter935 Jan 2013 #12
Pete Cortez Jan 2013 #15
DainBramaged Jan 2013 #19
Robb Jan 2013 #23
DainBramaged Jan 2013 #28
malaise Jan 2013 #27
Warren Stupidity Jan 2013 #9
Pete Cortez Jan 2013 #16
Warren Stupidity Jan 2013 #21
etherealtruth Jan 2013 #11
Pete Cortez Jan 2013 #14
etherealtruth Jan 2013 #17
Pete Cortez Jan 2013 #18
Robyn66 Jan 2013 #7
DainBramaged Jan 2013 #20
Robyn66 Jan 2013 #22
etherealtruth Jan 2013 #13

Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:39 AM

1. K&R

 

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Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #1)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:41 AM

2. 1.2.3......................Gun whores will be on the way

 

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Response to MightyMopar (Reply #2)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:34 PM

8. Nah, too busy junking our Chrysler products for fuel efficient modern designs

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #8)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 05:35 PM

24. And look who is the first to show up! BTW, You're ignorant

 

You're ignorant of the new 2013 Ram truck that leads the industry in gas mileage. Heck this new fullsize Ram even gets better gas mileage than compact Japanese trucks. You need to quit focusing on 1994 and move into the 2st century, Mr Professor!

http://autos.aol.com/gallery/best-trucks-fuel-economy/
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/33353.shtml

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Response to MightyMopar (Reply #24)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 08:32 PM

25. You need to quit focusing on environmental disasters on four wheels that are trucks and SUVs

Adults ride on two wheels...

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #25)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 08:47 PM

26. two wheels most of the time

smart car when too cold or raining. Has not rained or been real cold lately though.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:55 AM

3. Source?

 

Kind of hard to establish provenance of claims made in a cartoon, especially since at least two of them seem to be completely made up.

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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #4)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:43 PM

10. here ya go DB

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Response to Pete Cortez (Reply #3)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:03 PM

5. Hi there cowboy, first time at the rodeo???

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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #5)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:05 PM

6. Hi there to you, too.

 

New to DU. Looking forward to the give and take.

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Response to Pete Cortez (Reply #6)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:51 PM

12. Since a lot of people here

have an issue with some on the other side of their view. WELCOME, hope you stay. I like the back and forth discussion. I think it makes us all smarter.

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Response to Duckhunter935 (Reply #12)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 01:29 PM

15. Well said.

 

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Response to Duckhunter935 (Reply #12)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 02:55 PM

19. You liked his back and forth so much he left.....

you have much to learn grasshopper

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Response to Duckhunter935 (Reply #12)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 05:31 PM

23. Aw, another buddy of yours got banned as a gun troll.

I haz anodder sad.

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Response to Robb (Reply #23)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 09:33 PM

28. I findz 'em.....

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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #5)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 09:24 PM

27. Ha

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Response to Pete Cortez (Reply #3)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:38 PM

9. Start here.

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/

Of course it would be easier to get more recent data if your buddies at the NRA weren't suppressing government research into guns as a public health issue

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #9)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 01:50 PM

16. If the NRA was suppressing government research...

 

...how is it that the President was able to do away with said suppression by mere executive order? Also, the sources you provide clearly indicate research was conducted in the period NRA was supposedly "suppressing" it.

In any case, I'd still like sources for the claims in the cartoons, but I'll dispose of the claims made by Hemenway and friends here:

1. "Firearm availability and homicide rates across 26 high income countries." Authors use a questionable proxy for gun availability (firearm suicide rates). Use of this proxy in a simple regression with no control variables is a blatant example of begging the question.

2. "Household firearm ownership levels and homicide rates across U.S. regions and states." I unfortunately can't find a free source for the full text on this. I note Hemenway's synopsis indicates the study used yet another proxy for firearms ownership. I'll withhold judgement for now and focus on his follow up piece.

3. "State-level homicide victimization rates in the U.S. in relation to survey measures of household firearm ownership, 2001-2003." Here we actually have an abstract. Hemenway maps 2001-2003 homicide victimization data to 2001 survey data on firearms ownership (VPC made the same mistake, only more egregiously by using 2007 homicide data). Moreover, the use of homicide rates rather than, say, the lifetime risk of homicide victimization is confounding. If a gang were to cross the border from California to Arizona and proceed to act as violently as they had before, the impact on Arizona's homicide rate would be considerably greater than it was in California. Moreover, the authors--to their credit--warn against drawing a causal inference between prevalence of firearms ownership and homicide rate.

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Response to Pete Cortez (Reply #16)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 03:59 PM

21. Your question makes zero sense.

If the government weren't suppressing research, what would be the point of the e.o. unsupressing it?

https://www.google.com/search?q=nra+cdc

It is just that reality has a liberal bias.

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Response to Pete Cortez (Reply #3)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:48 PM

11. Welcome to DU, its always nice to see folk come solely to promote their love of guns

I've only read posts by you extolling the virtues of guns (or something along those lines) ... tell me, please (just to clear the air) what actual Democratic positions do you hold?

You are a strong advocate of gay marriage (a basic human right)

.... a strong advocate of a woman's right to choose ....?

You are willing to fight for social and economic justice ... for all....?

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Response to etherealtruth (Reply #11)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 01:29 PM

14. Two out of three.

 

I'm no activist; just a programmer and gunsmith in big sky country.

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Response to Pete Cortez (Reply #14)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 01:50 PM

17. Forgive me, I am not sure I understand your response

It sounds (and please correct me if i am wrong) that you are stating that you hold no real opinion on "other" issues confronting the Democratic party ... except for the gun issue .... ?

I accept that 22% of Democrats own guns ... I also accept that some of those Democrats and I are never going to agree on gun laws and policy, but that we are going to believe in the same general goals and ideals of the Democratic party. Those are people worth engaging and listening too.

The idea of the Democratic Underground is to interact with like minded people. Folk that work (from simply voting for Democrats ... to high level political activism) for the election of Democrats to political office.

do you have any deeply held political beliefs ... excluding your views on guns?

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Response to etherealtruth (Reply #17)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 02:02 PM

18. No.

 

I support the program in almost all its entirety. I have differences of opinion with certain groups on matters concerning energy policy (specifically, nuclear power) and of course on the matter of firearms.

However, you also asked whether I was "willing to fight" for such and such. I admittedly have little time for activism, on behalf of gun owner rights or much of anything else. To the extent that I have anything to say on political matters, I usually restrict myself to subjects I know best. That has no bearing on my principles or my ballot.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:23 PM

7. Sure but a car is as dangerous as a gun

You know, because people get run over in cars and there are drunk drivers and that is exactly like someone getting a military style weapon and mowing down 20 first graders. You have to have a license to drive a car and some people's heads literally explode if you begin to discuss the prospect of background checks never mind licensing for guns even though they are exactly the same. Just remember that even though you point out perfectly valid provable points, Guns are the same as cars and if you want to regulate or control any kind of gun, well then what you are saying is that we should take all cars off the road to stop drunk drivers. Yes guns are the same as cars guns are the same as cars guns are the same as cars....

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Response to Robyn66 (Reply #7)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 03:02 PM

20. A car can't kill randomly like a gun discharged at the sky or from a car

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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #20)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 05:27 PM

22. Very good point!

I guess there IS a difference between cars and guns!

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:55 PM

13. Do Guns Provide Safety? At What Cost?

http://journals.lww.com/smajournalonline/Fulltext/2010/02000/Pedunculated_Localized_Fibrous_Tumor_of_the_Pleura.16.aspx

"Many people feel that having a gun provides greater safety for them and their family. Actually, having a firearm in the home escalates the risk for death or injury, while using it to shoot someone who endangers the household is much less common. The resultant injuries, deaths, emotional turmoil, and/or disabilities lead to greater utilization of health care and legal/police services. Payment for these expenses is provided by higher insurance premiums and tax rates. This financial aspect has become a part of our country's current political concern over firearm ownership rights, gun violence or regulation, health care costs, the economy, and taxes.

Key Points

* The presence of a gun in the home results in more deaths to the owner and/or family members than to intruders.

* Suicide rates are escalated by firearm availability.

* Gun-related violence raises health care utilization and costs.

* Gun-related violence increases criminal justice system expenditures.

* Shootings result in higher costs to taxpayers and for insurance premiums.

* Gun-related violence leaves a legacy of grief and hardship."

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