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Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:17 AM

The false confidence of an unloaded gun:

Police: Henry County teen accidentally shot and killed by brother

Charges could be forthcoming against a Henry County mother and her 14-year-old son after the teen accidentally shot and killed his 15-year-old brother, police said.

Henry County police Sgt. Joey Smith said officers dispatched to the family’s home on Deer Trace Drive near McDonough at 2:41 a.m. Saturday discovered that the younger teen had shot his brother.

The brothers, along with a friend who was spending the night, had gotten the mother’s handgun, “which at the time had been unloaded,” Smith said.

“During the course of the evening and early morning hours, one of the boys had evidently loaded the weapon, Smith said. “The 14-year-old at some point pointed the weapon at his brother and pulled the trigger, which resulted in the 15-year-old being struck in the chest area.”

Read More: http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/police-henry-county-teen-accidentally-shot-and-kil/nT3CG/

61 replies, 3085 views

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Arrow 61 replies Author Time Post
Reply The false confidence of an unloaded gun: (Original post)
Robb Jan 2013 OP
slackmaster Jan 2013 #1
Robb Jan 2013 #2
slackmaster Jan 2013 #5
Robb Jan 2013 #7
slackmaster Jan 2013 #9
baldguy Jan 2013 #40
geckosfeet Jan 2013 #14
Orrex Jan 2013 #3
slackmaster Jan 2013 #6
Orrex Jan 2013 #10
surrealAmerican Jan 2013 #13
Orrex Jan 2013 #15
Hoyt Jan 2013 #21
sarisataka Jan 2013 #28
Hoyt Jan 2013 #30
sarisataka Jan 2013 #31
MattBaggins Jan 2013 #54
sarisataka Jan 2013 #57
JimDandy Jan 2013 #33
slackmaster Jan 2013 #35
JimDandy Jan 2013 #42
warrior1 Jan 2013 #4
Iggo Jan 2013 #22
JimDandy Jan 2013 #34
Drahthaardogs Jan 2013 #8
Iggo Jan 2013 #25
NutmegYankee Jan 2013 #11
Nuclear Unicorn Jan 2013 #12
Pete Cortez Jan 2013 #18
Robb Jan 2013 #19
NutmegYankee Jan 2013 #20
Nuclear Unicorn Jan 2013 #27
Robb Jan 2013 #55
Nuclear Unicorn Jan 2013 #60
TeamPooka Jan 2013 #24
Hugabear Jan 2013 #16
Pete Cortez Jan 2013 #17
Hoyt Jan 2013 #23
NutmegYankee Jan 2013 #32
Pete Cortez Jan 2013 #41
Hoyt Jan 2013 #43
Pete Cortez Jan 2013 #44
Ikonoklast Jan 2013 #59
TeamPooka Jan 2013 #26
Pete Cortez Jan 2013 #52
TeamPooka Jan 2013 #53
etherealtruth Jan 2013 #29
Pete Cortez Jan 2013 #38
etherealtruth Jan 2013 #39
Pete Cortez Jan 2013 #45
etherealtruth Jan 2013 #47
Pete Cortez Jan 2013 #48
etherealtruth Jan 2013 #49
Pete Cortez Jan 2013 #51
Hoyt Jan 2013 #46
Pete Cortez Jan 2013 #50
lynne Jan 2013 #36
raidert05 Jan 2013 #37
Oilwellian Jan 2013 #56
kestrel91316 Jan 2013 #58
ecstatic Jan 2013 #61

Response to Robb (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:18 AM

1. Basic gun safety should be taught in public schools

 

The first rule of which is "You must assume that every gun is always loaded."

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #1)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:20 AM

2. Read the article. Do you think they didn't know it was loaded?

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Response to Robb (Reply #2)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:22 AM

5. The boy violated at least two of the other rules of gun safety

 

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #5)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:24 AM

7. Well, then it's really his fault.

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Response to Robb (Reply #7)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:26 AM

9. It's largely his fault

 

Depending on applicable state law it may also be the fault of the owner of the weapon. In California it would be.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #5)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 01:32 PM

40. Rule One: There's no real reason for anyone to have a gun.

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Response to Robb (Reply #2)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:44 AM

14. A gun is always loaded.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #1)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:21 AM

3. At the very least, you should assume that it's loaded after you've loaded it.

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Response to Orrex (Reply #3)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:22 AM

6. Some people aren't smart enough to make that connection

 

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #6)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:27 AM

10. No doubt

I don't think that firearm safety should be taught in public schools, because honestly we don't need yet another constraint on the already strained time and funding of those schools, but such training should definitely be required prior to gun ownership.

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Response to Orrex (Reply #3)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:39 AM

13. The article is not clear on that point.

It may have been the victim who loaded it. We don't know if the 14-year-old knew it was loaded.

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Response to surrealAmerican (Reply #13)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:58 AM

15. Good observation

Shame on me for a too-quick reading.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #1)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:32 PM

21. I suppose you want some NRA certified instructor to do it? Just what we need. And


the standard answer by the gun culture every time something like this happens.

Howsabout teaching , Find a gun -- call the police. And guns are not your friend or desirable in our society. You think some hack from the NRA is going to teach that?

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #21)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:39 PM

28. If it is for school children

Yes.

The NRA sponsored I class I offer to schools teaches exactly what you say. Don't touch a gun, inform a responsible adult if present or call the police if not. Guns are dangerous and should never be handled.
The NRA is never mentioned in class; it is to educate the children not to recruit.

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #28)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:44 PM

30. I'd rather a non-gun culture member teach it. NRA should not be involved in any way.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #30)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:48 PM

31. No gun control group has a similar program

I looked outside the NRA first

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #28)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 03:04 PM

54. Do they receive money for this?

I would prefer my money not go to that corrupt organization.

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Response to MattBaggins (Reply #54)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 03:21 PM

57. Not from the schools

there is a grant program through the nra that covers materials cost. I believe it is funded with member dues, as An educational program, and some outside contributions.

I donate my time when a school wishes to have a class. Usually it is done on An opt-in basis so parents have the final say if their children participate.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #1)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 01:07 PM

33. Yes, and knife safety'

Last edited Sun Jan 20, 2013, 02:54 PM - Edit history (1)

because knives kill too; driver's safety, because the NRA says car crashes kill more people than guns, (Whoops, no, Driver's Ed has been cut from schools due to LIABILITY and money problems) and tae kwan do, so our kids can defend themselves against the bullies on their way to their 30 minutes science class (Physics/Bio/Chem all crammed in) because there's just not enough time in the day you know. Yes, we'll squeeze in your "gun safety" because as teachers, we believe that should be America's highest priority.

ETA

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Response to JimDandy (Reply #33)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 01:12 PM

35. I learned saw safety in seventh grade woodshop

 

Yes, we'll squeeze in your "gun safety" because as teachers, we believe that should be America's highest priority.

Most teachers would get a break for the hour needed for a firearm instructor or retired police officer to instruct students in the fundamentals.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #35)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 01:42 PM

42. I had all kinds of little safety lessons

in each of the 3 'trades' classes I had to take (I chose woodworking, small engine repair- my dad's lawn mower never was the same afterwards- and Home Ec) but those safety bits were integral to what was being taught, as was your saw safety.

There isn't enough time in the school day, no matter who you want teaching our kids about guns. And if there was time, I'd rather have them teach my kids driver's ed-it's much more useful and pertinent to the real skills and safety lessons they need.

And, if any school thinks they have time to teach anything about guns, then teach our kids that guns are "really really bad".

Must get back to packing-moving next week.




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Response to Robb (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:21 AM

4. another family destroyed

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Response to warrior1 (Reply #4)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:35 PM

22. But thank god the gun was saved!

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Response to Iggo (Reply #22)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 01:10 PM

34. LOL! n/t

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Response to Robb (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:26 AM

8. I guess I am not sure I believe this is an accident (they loaded the gun)

Someone loaded the gun during the course of "play". I also wonder what chargers they could press against the mother?

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #8)


Response to Robb (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:35 AM

11. You never point a gun at something you don't intend to destroy, regardless of it's loaded status.

I never let a barrel cross a person, even when it's slide/action is locked open and no rounds are present. It's the old saying - with rights comes responsibility. These rules are stressed over and over again in the competition world for this reason.
I competition shoot, and we make very sure that the weapons have been rendered safe before we walk down range to compare/score or change targets.


In this case, teenagers should never have had access to this unlocked/unsecured weapon.

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Response to Robb (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:37 AM

12. Horrible. That's why my husband taught me about his guns

He made me be able to recite every part of it, he made me demonstrate how load, unload and clear it in case of misfire. I had to recite the rules: always assume it is loaded, never point it at anything you don't want to destroy, keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to shoot and proper stance, finger placement etc. He was unrelenting and uncompromising but guns are something we have to have in our house. I was a very uncomfortable student but the more I learned the less scared I became. I told him s much at the time but he said he appreciated my sense of apprehension because it meant I wouldn't treat a gun as a toy.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #12)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:14 PM

18. Well said.

 

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #12)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:22 PM

19. Good for you. But this child is dead.

What your parents did or did not tell you did nothing to help him.

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Response to Robb (Reply #19)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:31 PM

20. But this kind of knowledge and education can help others.

I grew up with firearms, and at younger ages they were secured in strong boxes. Once I was a teenager, I was taught all of the safety rules and to respect guns. That was when I got into pistol competition.
I never lost a friend to guns because their parents did the same thing for them.

I did lose three friends to a horrific car collision, but that was because the driver was playing "Ghost" (driving without headlights on rural road).

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Response to Robb (Reply #19)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:38 PM

27. You can't legislate everyone wear bubblewrap.

Some parents -- too many parents -- will engage in manifestly irresponsible behavior. We can do our best to educate to prevent and hold them to account when they fail but to impose a set of laws on the insanely arrogant belief that we could legislate the perfectly safe society would lead to a society not worth living in.

Case in point: the 32 oz. soda rule. We're supposed to just sit there and accept these decrees over our lives. People who don't have weight issues (because they already don't drink 32oz. of soda) are still diminished but those who are obese aren't going to be improved. Nobody did anything useful; we're just supposed to be good little peons while I'll masters grow increasingly comfortable with telling us how much they know what is best for us.

HA!

And yes, I count this as a valid analogy, do to all the hoopla over childhood obesity.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #27)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 03:12 PM

55. Yes, that crazy dystopia without guns.

Sounds like a living hell.

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Response to Robb (Reply #55)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:16 PM

60. I think the place you're referring to is called

Chicago.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #12)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:35 PM

24. Fact: A gun in the home make homicide 2.7 times more likely.

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Response to Robb (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:01 PM

16. It should be illegal to keep a gun in a house with kids

Kids can be very determined. Even if the gun is locked, many kids can find a way to access them.

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Response to Hugabear (Reply #16)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:13 PM

17. Or parents and teachers can take the time to educate children on the dangers of misusing firearms.

 

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Response to Pete Cortez (Reply #17)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:35 PM

23. How about teaching them that guns are bad like cigarettes, racism, polluters, corporate greed, etc.


We need to quit glamorizing/celebrating/tolerating guns in our society.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #23)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:50 PM

32. I doubt it would work. Teens are drawn to things forbidden.

Smoking is rampant among the millennial generation. Corporate greed is at what seems to be an all time high and many talented youth are going into finance/business rather than STEM fields.

Racism has been reduced through exposure and integration of society. If you grow up playing and hanging out with people of other races and religions, you don't harbor racist feelings.

Pollution by industry has been reduced through decent regulation and enforcement, but I don't hold high hopes on pollution by individuals. One canot feel anything but disgust when you stop at a traffic light and see cigarette butts and water bottles piled on each other.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #23)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 01:34 PM

41. Some parents do just that.

 

Others teach their children that firearms are tools that put food on the table, keep your family safe, and instill a degree of discipline, focus and accomplishment.

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Response to Pete Cortez (Reply #41)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 01:52 PM

43. "[Guns] instill a degree of discipline, focus and accomplishment" - ban anyone who believes that


from owning or being around guns.

Gun culture is delusional.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #43)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 02:03 PM

44. To each their own.

 

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #43)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 03:40 PM

59. "My guns also make me ten feet tall and irresistible to women."

Funny how the NRA water-carriers are always telling us that a deadly firearm designed to kill living things is just an inanimate object, a 'tool', can do absolutely nothing all by itself yet can instill a degree of discipline, focus and accomplishment.

Mystical properties not apparent to anyone that doesn't know the secret handshake, I guess.

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Response to Pete Cortez (Reply #17)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:36 PM

26. how about 6 teachers killed teaches us we should have stronger gun laws.

not to mention to 20 young children.

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Response to TeamPooka (Reply #26)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 02:40 PM

52. That's the lesson you draw from the experience.

 

Surely your empathy extends to people who deal with the carnage more frequently and closely than someone observing a rare atrocity from hundreds of miles away.

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Response to Pete Cortez (Reply #52)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 02:45 PM

53. don't change the subject. Yes stronger gun laws are the amswer. Teachers know this now

nice try on the diversion though.

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Response to Pete Cortez (Reply #17)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:41 PM

29. I agree children need to be taught that guns are implements of destruction

The need to be reminded of the deaths of innocents (either by accident or design) due to the easy availability.

Good idea, educated children about guns and violence ... teach them how Australia handled it by instituting extremely tough gun laws!

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Response to etherealtruth (Reply #29)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 01:31 PM

38. I'll simply point out that at the nadir of the American experience with violent crime...

 

...pistol and rifle competitions were common features in middle and high school life.

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Response to Pete Cortez (Reply #38)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 01:32 PM

39. For whom?

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Response to etherealtruth (Reply #39)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 02:04 PM

45. Middle school and high school students.

 

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Response to Pete Cortez (Reply #45)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 02:17 PM

47. When was the nadir of our experience ....

Middle school and high school students, really doesn't answer anything ... did this include women, african americans, the Irish ... city dwellers ....

I will be 51 this month ... I grew up in a fairly affluent suburb ... we did not use firearms or receive any firearm training ... my parents will be 76 this year ... they are college educated , as well, grew up in relative affluence ... no guns ... my grandparents (1/2 college educated) born in the late 1800s ... no gun ownership or use ...

I don't disbelieve that rural and semi rural kids had the training you speak of ... I also believe they participated in 4-H programs ... this doesn't really reflect the American experienc.

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Response to etherealtruth (Reply #47)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 02:30 PM

48. I'm pushing 70.

 

And by nadir, I'm talking 50 to 60 years ago. And I'm not talking 4-H. I'm talking district funded varsity and junior varsity rifle and pistol. It was one of the most interesting, different things I encountered when I first came to this country.

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Response to Pete Cortez (Reply #48)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 02:31 PM

49. Let me assure you, that was not a universal experience

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Response to etherealtruth (Reply #49)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 02:36 PM

51. I don't know how widespread it is

 

But even today it's wide spread enough that searching "shooting sports" and "high school" and restricting to sites off the edu top domain yields 80,000 results.

On the other hand, I agree that it's considerably less prominent than it was 50 to 60 years ago. Shame.

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Response to Pete Cortez (Reply #38)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 02:13 PM

46. I don't think the guns in school BS had anything to do with it, but I'm sure gun cultists subscribe


to such right wing bull.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #46)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 02:31 PM

50. Guns themselves have nothing to do with it.

 

It was a culture that placed firearms in their proper context, something that's missing on both sides of the debate today.

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Response to Robb (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 01:16 PM

36. There is no such thing as an unloaded gun -

- at least, I never assume so. Don't care who says it's empty, I treat every gun as though it's fully loaded. I expect all members of my family to do the same.

Not sure what went on in this situation but it's certainly tragic. The gun should have been in a locked safe.

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Response to Robb (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 01:29 PM

37. Not following the Four Universal rules for gun safety

 

1.Treat every weapon as if it is loaded.
2.Never point at anything you do not intend to shoot.
3.Keep your finger extended along the receiver until ready to fire.
4.Keep the weapon on safe until ready to fire.

Treat Never Keep Keep.....say it seven times and it will become ingrained in your mind

On that note the only weapons that stay out of the safe are our carry weapons. My others stay locked up in my safe. Our carry weapons have keyed internal lock down features, locks the trigger and the slide down, keep the keys on our key rings, keep the weapons unloaded till we are ready to go out.

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Response to Robb (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 03:13 PM

56. A video that displays that mindset...

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Response to Robb (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 03:35 PM

58. If the other kid had been armed with a fully loaded Uzi this

never would have happened.

MOAR GUNZ!!!!

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Response to Robb (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:21 PM

61. You can't hide anything from a t(w)een. They know where it is, trust me

I wish parents would understand that their kids know way more than they realize: They know where you hide certain things, including your gun. They know how to bypass all your parental controls and internet filters. If you watch porn, they know about that too. I don't know what the answer is: On one hand, you can teach them gun safety and trust that they don't shoot you the next time they get angry. But I'm thinking a gun is a bad idea for anyone with teenagers, especially boys.

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