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Sat Jan 19, 2013, 11:07 AM

A father wants a gun even though his son is on psych meds. Any advice?

By Christina Vercelletto for Parenting.com

Three weeks ago, I was printing out an Amazon receipt for a tennis racket. When I grabbed it from my home printer, there was another sheet underneath: A New York State gun license application. Signed by my husband.

My head was spinning, because although I was reading the words, it just didn't make sense.

The application asked whether he'd ever been diagnosed with a psychiatric disorder. It didn't ask whether anyone else in his household had.

I texted him: "WTF gun license??? Have u lost ur friggin mind!??"

It took him a few minutes to reply, during which I stared at the phone, waiting to read something that explained the incomprehensible.

"Calm down are u going to let me talk??"

My hands were shaking. What was happening? John is the most un-macho man you can imagine. He doesn't follow a single professional sport, preferring instead "Restaurant Impossible" or "The Voice." At parties, he finds more to talk about with the women than the men. He trolls recipe websites, trying to improve his formula for vegetable soup or baked clams. He goes to Bible study every Thursday. He has never once in the 20 years I've known him mentioned a gun. The visual of him packing heat is absurd.

I finally typed: "hope u r prepared to shoot me, only way u r bringing into

Our 13-year-old son, Aden, takes two psychiatric meds for depression and anxiety. He has ADHD and Tourette's syndrome. Asperger's was suspected, then rejected. Nobody seems to be able to give us an exact diagnosis, but he has virtually no friends his age. On his recent birthday, he received four Facebook greetings, which in the world of FB may as well be a negative number. He hates school because he is picked on. He spends a lot of time in his room.
<snip>
The rest of the discussion:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/parentingcom/my-husband-wants-a-gun-son-has-mental-illness_b_2498448.html

That father has a dangerous belief in his ability to control his son. Kids without problems can be tempted to break rules. And as the mother said, who knows what that kid is really processing.
Smh.....

116 replies, 5504 views

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Reply A father wants a gun even though his son is on psych meds. Any advice? (Original post)
Are_grits_groceries Jan 2013 OP
slackmaster Jan 2013 #1
Travis_0004 Jan 2013 #2
easttexaslefty Jan 2013 #96
Are_grits_groceries Jan 2013 #3
slackmaster Jan 2013 #4
easttexaslefty Jan 2013 #97
slackmaster Jan 2013 #103
easttexaslefty Jan 2013 #109
Voice for Peace Jan 2013 #112
backscatter712 Jan 2013 #16
tblue Jan 2013 #27
backscatter712 Jan 2013 #29
Denninmi Jan 2013 #6
elfin Jan 2013 #10
Denninmi Jan 2013 #32
easttexaslefty Jan 2013 #98
GoneOffShore Jan 2013 #7
Travis_0004 Jan 2013 #11
baldguy Jan 2013 #22
Kelvin Mace Jan 2013 #63
GoneOffShore Jan 2013 #75
tblue Jan 2013 #30
JHB Jan 2013 #15
tblue Jan 2013 #31
barbtries Jan 2013 #95
Fumesucker Jan 2013 #113
pnwmom Jan 2013 #23
slackmaster Jan 2013 #25
backscatter712 Jan 2013 #39
Are_grits_groceries Jan 2013 #44
pnwmom Jan 2013 #54
backscatter712 Jan 2013 #57
pnwmom Jan 2013 #87
easttexaslefty Jan 2013 #99
pnwmom Jan 2013 #53
Yo_Mama Jan 2013 #59
Matt_R Jan 2013 #88
Yo_Mama Jan 2013 #101
Pete Cortez Jan 2013 #106
Kelvin Mace Jan 2013 #62
No Vested Interest Jan 2013 #68
99Forever Jan 2013 #93
slackmaster Jan 2013 #104
99Forever Jan 2013 #107
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #5
pnwmom Jan 2013 #55
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #58
pnwmom Jan 2013 #64
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #72
pnwmom Jan 2013 #86
Zoeisright Jan 2013 #79
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #80
easttexaslefty Jan 2013 #100
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #102
easttexaslefty Jan 2013 #110
ManiacJoe Jan 2013 #66
rightsideout Jan 2013 #8
HappyMe Jan 2013 #9
Are_grits_groceries Jan 2013 #38
HappyMe Jan 2013 #42
Are_grits_groceries Jan 2013 #48
HappyMe Jan 2013 #50
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etherealtruth Jan 2013 #14
laundry_queen Jan 2013 #17
Fire Walk With Me Jan 2013 #18
Fire Walk With Me Jan 2013 #13
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Are_grits_groceries Jan 2013 #51
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Are_grits_groceries Jan 2013 #70
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Are_grits_groceries Jan 2013 #74
HereSince1628 Jan 2013 #76
Are_grits_groceries Jan 2013 #84
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Are_grits_groceries Jan 2013 #91
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Denninmi Jan 2013 #34
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hunter Jan 2013 #19
slackmaster Jan 2013 #20
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Pete Cortez Jan 2013 #108
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Pete Cortez Jan 2013 #105
TheBlackAdder Jan 2013 #114

Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 11:09 AM

1. As long as the weapon is kept securely locked up, it wouldn't be a problem

 

That's the advice I give to EVERYONE who contemplates purchasing a firearm regardless of what kind of medical issues family members may have.

Also "a psychiatric disorder" couldn't be more vague. Most people with psychiatric disorders DO NOT pose a danger to other people.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 11:12 AM

2. I agree

If he bought a good gun safe, and kept the gun secure, then I see nothing wrong with it.

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Response to Travis_0004 (Reply #2)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:26 AM

96. Are you kidding me?

Do you have any idea of how many kids that age kill themselves with "secured" guns? Sadly, I do...
It's a lot.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 11:13 AM

3. He's a kid who has shown

that there are issues in controlling him. In addition, the father may be badly underestimating his son's intelligence and determination. His assumptions may lead to carelessness. If that kid becomes fixated on that gun, there is a problem.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Reply #3)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 11:16 AM

4. I certainly agree that there are potential pitfalls, however...

 

...there are plenty of other things that an uncontrollable child could get into lethal trouble with in and around any normal house. As long as the gun is less accessible than lighters and gasoline, the gun isn't going to be the biggest worry.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #4)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:28 AM

97. You need to stop talking

our your ass about things you have NO CLUE about.

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Response to easttexaslefty (Reply #97)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:08 AM

103. You have no idea what I know and what I don't know

 

Please try to be civil.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #103)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:24 AM

109. Its pretty damn obvious you DON'T

if you did, you would shut the fuck up.

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Response to easttexaslefty (Reply #109)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:04 PM

112. honoring a request to be civil is not hard, and makes this board work better for everyone.

when somebody tells you to "shut the fuck up"
is it helpful? productive? persuasive?

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Reply #3)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 11:54 AM

16. I'm betting your kid is no psycho killer.

You know him better than I do, but one thing you could consider is talking to him about this, and explaining your concerns. Maybe if you persuaded him, he'll stay clear of the gun and treat it with respect on his own.

Discuss your concerns, suggest he take a gun safety course, make it clear that the gun is to be respected at all times, and kept locked up. If he shows responsibility, give him a little respect.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #16)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:19 PM

27. Yeah. You could do all that.

But wouldn't it be easier just to not get the gun?

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Response to tblue (Reply #27)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:20 PM

29. Yes, that would be preferable. n/t

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 11:27 AM

6. Thank you.

That's right. Very few are dangerous and violent. I'm not. Not that I should HAVE to keep repeating that point, but I get sick of the people that just assume ....

I know I'll get flack for this, but IF the dad insists on buying it for whatever reason, maybe it could be used as a tool to teach responsibility and develop some self-confidence. Maybe the two of them could take a safety course together and then get into target sports as a father-son duo, while at the same time using the strictest safety protocols.

Teach the kid the right way to deal with anger, stress, and depression through some healthy outlets.

OK, let it fly ......

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Response to Denninmi (Reply #6)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 11:39 AM

10. Adam's mom thought it would be good for her son as well

Look what it got her and 26 others.

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Response to elfin (Reply #10)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:24 PM

32. I don't think you can extrapolate from one situation to another.

Everyone is different.

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Response to Denninmi (Reply #6)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:32 AM

98. Oh come on, people.

I am a member of a online support group. The members have all lost their children to suicide. You do not want guns in the house of children. If you don't trust me on that do some fucking research.
Fer Christ sake.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 11:27 AM

7. Nope - I disagree.

It's really "horses for courses" and a weapon in the house - even locked up - is not the horse for that particular course.

Having read the entire article:
The child in question will figure out how to get into the safe.
He's on psych meds.
Despite his creative side he's into "first person shooter" games.
He has very few friends and he's teased at school.

Sounds like just the sort of household that "needs" a firearm.

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Response to GoneOffShore (Reply #7)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 11:45 AM

11. How will he figgure out how to get into the safe?

I decent quality safe (which doesn't need to cost thousands), is very difficult to break into. Short of him taking and angle grinder to it for a few minutes, I don't think he will break into it.

Also, there is no reason the parents need to tell him the gun even exists. Don't let him know the parents own one, and he won't go searching for it.

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Response to Travis_0004 (Reply #11)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:07 PM

22. Breaking into a safe or a locked box just takes the application of time & effort.

They're useful against thieves because thieves rarely have either - unlike this particular young man.

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Response to Travis_0004 (Reply #11)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 01:44 PM

63. Tons of "how to" material available on the net

Never bet against the ingenuity of a teenager.

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Response to Travis_0004 (Reply #11)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 02:36 PM

75. If you read the article you'll see that the father has already said:

A few days later, John and I were driving to a family party. Aden was in the backseat with his iPad. "Mom, I just shot and killed 9 guys!"

"REALLY? Faaabulous," I said, as sarcastically as I have ever said anything in my life.

I felt dizzy when John said, "I should take you to the shooting range and teach you how to properly shoot. You'd love it."


So, I don't think not letting the boy know that there's a gun in the house is on the table.

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Response to GoneOffShore (Reply #7)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:20 PM

30. Kids are smart. Damned smart.

They figure stuff out. If he wants that gun, he'll get it.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 11:54 AM

15. Get two safes: one for the gun, another for the ammunition. Keep them in widely-separated places...

...and if possible off-site: rental storage or something.

Depending how the lock works: do not keep the keys in the same place or do not use the same combinations (or if a preset combination, store the combinations in separate places -- again, off-site to greatly complicate your son's potential access to them). If he insists that some ammunition be kept in the same location as the gun (i.e., "it's for home defense"), insist they are not kept in the gun safe but are also stored separately -- only a bare minimum of them (6?) kept in a misleadingly-labeled box or bottle in a location that your son is unlikely to look for them even if he becomes obsessed -- and that little bundle is then never used except in the unlikely case that you really do need them for "home defense" (i.e., don't draw any attention to them).

And don't get sloppy about maintaining this set-up just because it's inconvenient. It's supposed to be inconvenient.

Insist your husband practice properly maintaining it (cleaning, oiling, etc.) and that he gain and maintain his own skill with it (range time, practice). If he doesn't keep this up regularly, it and all the accompanying items get sold.

In short, make sure he understands that owning a gun is a chore, just like paying bills or mowing the lawn, It requires time, effort, and money, and if he's not willing to take on all of those he shouldn't keep it around.

That's all assuming you can't dissuade him in the first place. If you can't change his mind, insist he aboide by the reasonable practices and precautions outlined above.

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Response to JHB (Reply #15)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:23 PM

31. Get one for the dad too.

The mom doesn't want it. There should be a consensus or else no gun. IMHO.

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Response to tblue (Reply #31)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 07:49 AM

95. absolutely.

i will not have a gun in my house. that's not up for discussion. if you must have a gun, we cannot live together. i had a boyfriend once who tested that. he found somewhere else to keep his guns while we were together.

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Response to JHB (Reply #15)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:22 PM

113. The gun was ostensibly for self protection

Not much use having it in an off site location.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:12 PM

23. There are more details about his condition at the link. This boy is also extremely bright

and might find a way to defeat a gun safe.

Or the father might have a death wish and might accidentally leave it unlocked. . . .

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #23)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:15 PM

25. It's also possible, perhaps likely, that the boy has no inclination to violence

 

The boy will sooner or later find himself in a situation where someone has not stored a firearm responsibly, or is handling it in a negligent manner. My dad taught me at an early age the lethal nature of weapons, and how to handle them safely. That knowledge has never done me any harm, and I have passed it on to more than 100 others.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #25)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:42 PM

39. That's my concern about how this story's framed.

The kid has ADHD and Tourette's.

That does not make him into a psycho-killer.

He probably could use some help with social skills, but instantly assuming he's a potential monster because he has some minor psych issues and takes medication is pretty damned disrespectful to the kid.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #39)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:57 PM

44. Did you read about him trying to jump out of the car?

I am not saying he will be a psycho-killer. Do you really want to introduce a gun into a situation that is already unstable? What he thinks a gun can really do is unknown as it might be for any kid.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #39)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 01:24 PM

54. He's an impulsive, hyperactive kid who's been bullied and has tried to jump from a moving car.

He's not someone who should have access to a gun.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #54)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 01:28 PM

57. But he shouldn't be demonized either.

I'm not gonna blow a gasket if the kid's denied access to a firearm, but people are way too quick to throw stigma at people.

Even here at DU, people have been stigmatizing mental illness, which I find completely unacceptable.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #57)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 05:04 PM

87. Who's demonizing him?

There's a relative in my extended family who's suicidal. I don't demonize her, either. But I'd move heaven and earth to keep guns out of her hands.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #39)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:01 AM

99. Of course it doesn't.

But it does make him a candidate for suicide.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #25)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 01:21 PM

53. Did you have access to guns when you had ADHD, which involves

impulsive behavior, and were bullied and had no friends?

If not, then your experience of guns not being harmful might not be all that relevant.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 01:35 PM

59. In any house with kids, a gun stored insecurely is too dangerous

I see the son's psychiatric condition as a red herring here. It's too dangerous to have a working gun plus ammo where ANY kids can get at it.

If the gun(s) is/are properly stored, then the son's psychiatric problems make no difference and normal kids won't be able to fool around with it and hurt themselves or others.

Most of the gun deaths with kids are just from kids fooling with them.

Further, if the kid is that unstable, then they'd better be watching the car keys and the knives, medicine cabinet and liquor cabinet too. But it doesn't sound like he is.

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Response to Yo_Mama (Reply #59)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 05:34 PM

88. Are you saying people that have...

guns shouldn't have kids, or people that have kids shouldn't have guns?

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Response to Matt_R (Reply #88)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:03 AM

101. No, I am saying that unsecured guns in households with kids

are dangerous.

The same as we control other risks in households with kids, we need to control this risk. A gun without ammunition is about as dangerous as a baseball bat. I presume there is a baseball bat in that household.

I think the woman's concern is off-base to an extent, because she is ignoring other dangers to which the boy is exposed.

However people who have operable firearms with ammunition available along with children who are irresponsible are asking for trouble. Children do grow up, and once they have reached the age of responsibility and have been trained to use them, that changes. But in this boy's case, it might not due to the mother's concern over the boy's emotional state.

You don't want guns + ammo unsecured in a household with a suicidal adult either. Not that a person determined to commit suicide won't by another method, but still you do what you can. You also clean out the medicine cabinets and so forth. It's not going to prevent a determined attempt, so a rational person worried about that danger would also try by any available method to get the suicidal adult help - including involuntary commitment.

I'm not criticizing the mother for her concern, but I am pointing out that she may be deflecting her concern inappropriately onto the gun issue. There are many dangers in any household, and autos are usually also an extreme danger.

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Response to Yo_Mama (Reply #59)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:20 AM

106. Depends on how you define "kid."

 

For kids under the age of 4, this is certainly true. For kids between the ages of 12 and 18, not so much.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 01:42 PM

62. But they can pose a danger to themselves

and using the gun on himself would somehow be less tragic?

The fact that his man made the decision to bring a gun into the house without consulting his wife and against her express wishes show he is placing his desire for a firearm over common sense, and his family.

This is not good and if he brings the weapon into the house, his wife should leave and file for divorce.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 01:54 PM

68. "Securely locked up, it wouldn't be a problem"....

Likely Nancy L. in Newtown believed her guns were securely locked up.

When a bright but mentally disordered person lives in the same household, that person will easily find and know how to get access to the "securely locked" weapons. A household only has so many "hiding" places" for weapons or the keys and locks to secure them.

The owner has to sleep about 1/3 of an average day, has to attend to household affairs and personal duties such as bathroopm time, bathing, etc.

A motived or simply interested person, though disordered, will soon find know the owner's "secrets". Secrets are not easily kept in a household, despite the best attempts to do so.

Not worth the risk.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 07:12 PM

93. Gotta wonder if Nancy Lanza...

... didn't have the same thoughts as you are expressing here.


Just saying.

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #93)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:09 AM

104. I suspect that Nancy Lanza didn't do a very good job of securing her firearms

 

She may have had an unrealistic view of her son's mentality.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #104)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:21 AM

107. Please feel free to ask her about it.

Let us know what she tells you.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 11:24 AM

5. Buy a gun safe. Use it.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #5)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 01:25 PM

55. This boy might be bright enough to defeat the lock

or simply to find a key.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #55)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 01:31 PM

58. Basically, you're saying that obtaining a gun is dead wrong.

No gun means no accidents. Fair enough.

However, a proper gun safe won't be "defeated", and making the key inaccessible is part of being responsible, no matter what's in side.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #58)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 01:46 PM

64. For a parent of the boy described in the OP, part of being responsible

would be not encouraging the boy to have anything to do with guns. Owning guns, at the very least, would be setting a poor example.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #64)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 02:17 PM

72. I guess so.

My nephew is a special needs kids. Sweet, feisty, but overall a pleasure.

His parents encourage him to be curious and bold, so they hold few boundaries for him. I have witnessed him grab the car keys, go into the garage, and start playing like he was driving. It was all cute until he started the car. My point is this: the problem was not the car, not the way in which the locking mechanism worked, or that my brother owns a car in a house with a special needs kid. The problem was their very poor control of the situation. (At ten years old, my brother was having the kid mow the yard with a power mower unsupervised. You get the idea...)

Again, no gun, no problem. And, maybe in a house with a special needs kids, any gun in the house is a disaster waiting to happen. So, I agree with you. BUT, if hubby wants a gun and won't take no for an answer, he damned well better have a gun safe and he damned well better secure the combination to it.

(by the way -- take a wild guess: Does my brother own guns?)

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #72)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 05:01 PM

86. I have a relative, too, who has made me think about this situation.

Different problem, though -- a daughter has attempted suicide several times. The last time she came home from the hospital they had to go through the house, removing anything they could imagine being a danger to her, in the days they had to wait before sending her into a long term treatment program.

The methods have been escalating, and so far, so far, this distraught young woman hasn't managed to get hold of one of her father's guns. He's always kept them locked up safely. Let's hope there's never a mistake.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #58)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 02:48 PM

79. LOL

Responsible my ass. There is NO way to make a gun completely safe, no matter how "secure the fucking gun safe is. Dream on.

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Response to Zoeisright (Reply #79)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 02:50 PM

80. LOL!

What's so fucking funny?

We completely disagree on this.

Laugh on.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #58)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:03 AM

100. Oh yes they can. N\t

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Response to easttexaslefty (Reply #100)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:06 AM

102. Oh, yeah? n/t

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #102)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:26 AM

110. Yeah.

I know some that did. Belonging to a support group for suicide survivors teaches you a lot.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #55)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 01:47 PM

66. That is why you get a safe, not a lock box.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 11:31 AM

8. Tell him to take up Tennis instead

A gun in the house increases the chances of a gun incident substantially.

My best friend in Jr High committed suicide with a gun his father bought for protection. It was supposed to be locked up but somehow he was able to find the gun.

Tell him to forget the gun idea and play tennis instead. It's good exercise. I play tennis every Friday.

And if he needs to get that desire to shoot, go to the range and use their guns.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 11:37 AM

9. There are a bunch of things kept in a

household that could be big trouble. Any gun should be kept in a top of the line safe in any household that has one.


edit to add -
People that are mentally ill are more likely to have violence done to them. I sincerely hope that this OP isn't another attempt to slam anyone taking any kind of meds.



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Response to HappyMe (Reply #9)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:34 PM

38. I take psych meds. Satisfied.

I know they have strange side effects. What side effects that kid will have are up for debate.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Reply #38)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:50 PM

42. For one thing, the boy's parents

need to find a new doctor. According to the story, no definitive diagnosis has been made, yet they are feeding him meds.
To me, this is kind of glaring problem number 1.

If the boy has been on meds for awhile, any side effects would already be obvious. I would imagine they have to make regular visits to the doctor so that medication levels are adjusted to the child's growth and side effects.

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Response to HappyMe (Reply #42)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 01:03 PM

48. It isn't easy to diagnose some conditions.

In addition, the type of meds and the amount can be very hard to find. You said they were feeding him meds. I believe they are following the doctor's advice. Feeding him meds is an extreme view of what they are trying. That implies indiscriminate use without any guidance.
As far as another doctor, that might be called for. However, they might have gone to several.

Running around from doctor to doctor when immediate results aren't apparent is foolish. They should be open to change, but there are no miracle cures.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Reply #48)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 01:08 PM

50. The article sounded a bit flimsy

to me as far as a diagnosis. I wasn't suggesting that they should continually change doctors. Maybe it is just the way this is written, or how I am interpreting it.
Thank you for your patience with me.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 11:45 AM

12. This is a man who has odd priorities.

He should take the time and money he's going to spend on his gun and spend it with his son.

If any of my children had a serious illness the last thing I would be concerned about is a home invasion.

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Response to rug (Reply #12)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 11:52 AM

14. Agree completely! n/t

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Response to rug (Reply #12)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 11:57 AM

17. I totally agree

There are so many other things he could do to 'bond' with his son. And I agree with the mom - if the gun is going to be so secure, then it will be useless in a home invasion and there is no point in having one. I don't get the dad's train of thought here - at all. If I was that mom I'd also be standing strong and refusing to allow guns in my house. I'd probably also not allow shooting games, but that's just me.

I feel for her. I'm a bit pissed her husband is giving her the silent treatment for 'not listening' when that's exactly what he's doing. Reminds me of how my ex manipulated me - often. He'd pout and give me the silent treatment and tell me my concerns were 'ridiculous' and *I* wasn't 'listening' to him. In his world not 'listening' to him meant I wasn't giving him his way. So her husband leaves a bad taste in my mouth over all of this. JMO.

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Response to rug (Reply #12)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 11:57 AM

18. That is a sensible, compassionate, insightful reply.

 

And will likely be the last possible thing to actually occur.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 11:50 AM

13. The child is obviously a threat to society and must be regulated by the state.

 

We are building camps to remove and block such threats from the normal population. We can all get on with our lives and peace of mind knowing that such risks to life and liberty have been effectively and absolutely dealt with.

If you see any possible threat to another, no matter how small, contact the federal government by contacting your local police agency through the iWatch program. No threat is too small, no danger left unconsidered. If you know anyone suffering from even momentary depression or anything approaching visible or even suspected upset, call 911 immediately. Don't suspect your neighbor, turn them in!

but not unimaginable.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #13)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:19 PM

28. Lunatics are only a problem under CERTAIN phases of the moon, know your almanac!

Not long ago I remember posts that argued the left embraced the politics of knowledge and reason.

Now we are falling back on Medieval myths and astrology--It's the LUNATICS!

All mental illness is dangerous!

Medications for the mentally ill are dangerous!

Fear neighbors who have mentally ill family members!

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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #28)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:45 PM

40. It is time to stare those who grab power through fear-mongering directly in the eye

 

and laugh them out of business.

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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #28)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 01:09 PM

51. I am not saying that.

I have dealt with major depression for over 30 years and have a good idea about how people react.

This is a specific case and the kid has tried to jump out of a car. Their ability to control him is not clear. In addition, any meds or treatments tried can have unexpected results.

You are the one extrapolating the handling or view of one case to assume that any conclusion reached in this case applies to all. If that kid wasn't already having problems, I don't think his mother would be as upset.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Reply #51)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 01:27 PM

56. This anectdote is of no general interest if it isn't generalizing something

and it's clearly endorsing a general suspicion of the mentally ill and their mystery meds

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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #56)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 02:12 PM

70. How so? nt

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Reply #70)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 02:20 PM

73. F.A.I.L., patently so.

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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #73)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 02:35 PM

74. I asked you a specific question.

How does this anecdote or what I have said demonizes anybody? You only respond with that?

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Reply #74)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 02:42 PM

76. You're pulling my leg all the way to my shoulder, right? Look at the title of the article

"My Husband Wants a Gun Even Though Our Son Is on Psychiatric Meds"

The story line can be succinctly summarized as "woman reasonably upset at husband for getting gun permit because son's dx and his meds are scary"


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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #76)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 04:04 PM

84. Read the article and

his specific problems.
Her summation in the title may not be your ideal, but she has some valid worries about her son. That does not mean the problems in this case should be applied to every other case.

No I am not pulling your leg. The wy that I view something is obviously different than you. That's why I asked.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Reply #84)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 04:59 PM

85. This is how society moves toward consensus that is stigmatizing

one justified step at a time.

This anecdote is published and linked because it validates fear.

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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #85)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 06:19 PM

91. I did not post

it because it validates fear. I posted it because I thought it was a valid problem. Every person who has some type of 'mental' problem does not need to be vetted all the time or when considering gun ownership. It is such a broad category that many people fit.
There are people that it is valid to at least think about and discuss the issue.

You don't want all people with problems stigmatized. That is a valid point. However, you cannot shut down every discussion that comes up. There are those people with some issues that have to be given consideration. Otherwise everyone can go merrily on their way and do whatever.

I am very leery of lists of people with problems that are flagged. People might make such a list on a whim of someone. This is why I want clear open discussion so that the people don't get caught in a rush to judgement. Shut it down in public by complaining and it goes behind closed doors.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Reply #91)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 06:31 PM

92. No one EVER thinks what they are doing adds to the problem

I DON'T want every discussion shut down.

I'd prefer people not be in denial about the contribution they are making.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #13)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:26 PM

34. Of course, a perfect solution to the problem of the mentally ill.

Perhaps we can make them work camps to keep them busy. It would be highly therapeutic.

Just like in China.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #13)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:29 PM

36. +10000

 

nt

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 11:58 AM

19. When a women in my family say "No guns in my house!" there will be no guns in the house.

A man who disagreed would likely lose the gun and maybe a few appendages.

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Response to hunter (Reply #19)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:00 PM

20. I hope the couples worked that one out before they were married

 

My ex was fine with me owning firearms, as long as I kept them locked up and taught her son how to handle them safely.

That was our deal, and I stuck with it.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:06 PM

21. If your husband insists on bringing a gun into your home,

you must make sure that the gun is 100% totally secure. I know someone who kept a rifle in his home. His son who had massive psychological problems (including 3 attempted suicides) also lived in the house. While his father was out of town, the son invited his ex-girlfriend (she had just broken up with him) over and used the gun to kill himself in front of the girl. The girl is lucky that he didn't kill her first (and believe me she was no prize). There had been no ammo in the house but the son had been able to go out and buy it. I got a call at work from one of his neighbors and I was the one who had to track down the father and tell him the news.

I had been living with this guy and, having been in a situation with a guy who was delusional when it came to dealing with a troubled son, would never allow a gun in my home ever again. His dad never came to grips with the situation and I was left having to keep my eyes on the boy constantly. I tried for months to get through to the dad and nothing was ever going to change so I finally moved out. I never lost one moments sleep over that decision because it had become an issue of personal safety. His suicide by shotgun came 2-3 weeks after I moved out. The boy's aunt told me that the family knew that the only reason that the boy lived as long as he did was because I had been watching him like a hawk. None of them blamed me for moving out.

Having a gun in a home with anybody with psychiatric issues is a recipe for disaster. I really feel for you because I do understand where you are coming from. You are also caught between a rock and a hard place because you son is your biological child and you are doing the best you can for him and your husband has not really thought the situation out with its relevant consequences.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:13 PM

24. Does he NEED it or does he merely WANT it?

Knowing how strongly the writer feels about it, this sounds more like he is intentionally driving a wedge in their relationship.

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Response to Generic Brad (Reply #24)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:34 PM

37. I agree.

Instead of actively discussing gun ownership with his wife, he "accidentally" let her find the application for the gun permit. Sounds kinda passive-aggressive.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:17 PM

26. Keep it locked unless it is under your direct control.

And if his son is quicker and stronger than he is, I would advise him to be ever vigilant - better yet - do not carry it anywhere near him.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:26 PM

33. Set fire to his house. It's the only way to be sure.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:28 PM

35. The guy couldn't even hide a gun permit application

from his wife, yet every one is expected to believe he can keep a gun out of reach of a 13 yo? Oh boy. I predict a short marriage for those two.

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Response to Lars39 (Reply #35)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 01:46 PM

65. Why should he hide the permit from his wife?

Seems like an odd thing to do.

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Response to ManiacJoe (Reply #65)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 02:10 PM

69. More pertinent question: why did he *not discuss* wanting to buy a gun with his wife?

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:49 PM

41. I think the mom who wrote the article said it best when she said...

 

A criminal didn't kill those kids in Newtown. A criminal didn't do the shooting in Columbine. A criminal didn't go into the movie theatre in Colorado. These tragedies are being caused by mentally ill young males -- regular people until that fatal moment -- with access to guns!

The son's mentally ill. He's already proved he could be a danger to himself or others when he tried to jump out of a moving car. Moms right, they don't need a gun in the house with a mentally ill child. However, at the same time I understand, the dad should not have his constitutional right to own a gun infringed upon. This is a really slippery slope for all of us.

The tragedy here is that the actions of a few (like Nancy Lanza having a gun in her home with a mentally ill son) end up harming so many. Now we have 26 dead, the nation divided over gun laws, and the mentally ill feeling targeted and stigmatized.



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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:55 PM

43. That reads like fiction to me, and for the kid's sake I hope it is

But in general I'd say that buying a gun requires a prior conversation with spouse and/or housemates, and a thoughtful assessment of how you plan to store it. Any kids in the house need to be considered carefully - and the diagnosis (or lack thereof) of the particular child is just a tiny part of that...

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:58 PM

45. The last thing they need in the house is a gun. We had a friend keep our hunting guns when our

teenage son was having problems. In other words we had guns in the house and removed them not only for our safety but for our son's safety as well. Now that the problem was corrected and my son is a prosperous adult, he has told us that it is probably a good thing we did because he thought of killing himself often and access to a gun would have made it easy.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 01:00 PM

46. Depression runs in my family. As a middle schooler, my son had an episode.

As this was before Prozac, he was treated by a therapist for four years. While at camp, under supervision, he did target practice (rifles). His instructor said he was quite good, and could be a real competitor. My husband and I discussed it, and decided against letting him pursue this hobby. We did not stop him shooing at camp, even though we understood there was a degree of risk. We felt the positive feedback from the instructor and other boys outweighed the risks. It's a tough call to make, but in the situation described, I'd refuse to allow a gun in the house. But i think the author and husband need some help getting through this.
.
BTY, he's grown, married, with 2 beautiful little girls and he still plays violent video games.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 01:03 PM

47. this isn't about guns

it is about that particular couple's power dynamic.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 01:07 PM

49. People assume a much stronger correlation between mental illness and gun violence than justified.

Gender and age are actually much stronger predictors of gun violence. When he's 18, even if he's cured of mental illness, he'll probably be a bigger risk than now.

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Response to Bonn1997 (Reply #49)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 03:25 PM

82. people have to assume because there is no reasearch allowed

In other words, the same Congress that has funded most health research more generously than the governments of any other nation has specifically prohibited learning more about a problem that has killed about 400,000 U.S. citizens since 2000. Does that make sense?
http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/focusing-on-gun-violence-could-pave-the-way-to-fewer-firearm-related-deaths-201301175810

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Response to farminator3000 (Reply #82)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 03:38 PM

83. That's bad policy but you still have to assume the null hypothesis in the absence of research

I care about the issue because it's just another way of stereotyping the mentally ill. I'd be really surprised if mental illness were a stronger predictor of gun violence than gender, age, and poverty.

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Response to Bonn1997 (Reply #83)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 05:49 PM

89. there's some good stuff here

http://www.firearmsresearch.org/content.cfm/adv_search_results?searchterm=mental

the last one on page one seems to suggest mental illness is caused by violence.

more of a red flag against owning or being around guns than a predictor, but a predictor for lanza, say.

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Response to Bonn1997 (Reply #49)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:35 AM

111. When it comes to mass shooters SUICIDAL DEPRESSION IS A CORRELATION.

As is a desire for fame/infamy and a feeling of victimization.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 01:13 PM

52. Safe with a biometric lock

 

They have the technology to do that. That way the safe can only be opened by dads thumb scan.

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Response to JohnnyBoots (Reply #52)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 02:16 PM

71. that would be even better with this

http://www.smartlock.com/smartgun_detail.htm

if you're into that kind of thing

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 01:36 PM

60. I am not a gun owner or lover but......

I think that adults who share housing should be in agreement before a gun comes home. In addition to that the thing should be locked and put in a safe due to the youngster in the home.

I feel sorry for her. Reading this article made my stomach hurt. The stress that this marriage is under raising a child with these special needs is huge. I don't think it will end well. Imagine if she were to leave the guy over this, she can be certain that her son will visit his father in a home with a gun that is more than likely not secure. The idea that the shooting range is a good place for this young man is insane. The safety of everyone there would be in question. Really, I think she is in trouble here.


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Response to peace13 (Reply #60)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 01:11 PM

115. You expressed my point of view

She should drag the husband to couple's counseling. If he doesn't agree to go, she should get counseling herself. I have an adult son with similar type diagnosis. My husband and I went through a lot too. We needed professional help at times to keep our marriage together.

Parents of special need kids often need help themselves.
It is not easy.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 01:37 PM

61. Has your son been violent or aggressive? Remind him of Adam Lanza's mother and what

 

she failed to do. If he has this need to have a gun just make sure it is locked up and hide it from your son. By the way my husband was in the military 22 yrs and retired and he only likes soccer. He likes cooking shows and the history channel. He also has more in common with women then guys. There are allot of the out there. He said not all men have this need to be Mr Macho. He said he knows he is a man. He also said if guys have a problem with that is there problem not his. He is right. You'll have a long marriage because he understands you. I've been married for 34 yrs.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 01:48 PM

67. she should keep arguing politely- she'll win eventually.unless they really are in danger,but i doubt

that they are.

if you google 'home invasions' it looks scary, but if you look at what is really going on, they are gangs, or people that know each other, guns are stolen in home invasions, so what good are they really, etc.

it doesn't sound like she's living in a high crime area if she's buying tennis rackets and he's making veggie soup, if you will.

there are also police locks, panic buttons (or rooms if he's that paranoid), neighbors, dogs, plenty of other options.

baseball bat, crowbar, tae kwon do, hatchet, pepper spray for god sakes. plenty of other options.

definitely not a kid that should be encouraged to use guns. that's plain nuts. or really a guy that could handle a gun , either-


http://swampland.time.com/2013/01/16/your-brain-in-a-shootout-guns-fear-and-flawed-instincts/
“Real gun battles are not Call of Duty,” says Ryan Millbern, who responded to an active-shooter incident and an armed bank robbery among other calls during his decade as a police officer in Colorado. Millbern, a member of the National Rifle Association, believes there is value in trained citizens’ carrying weapons for defensive purposes. He understands what the NRA’s Wayne LaPierre meant when he said, “The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.” But he knows from experience that in a life-or-death encounter, a gun is only as good as its user’s training.


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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 02:47 PM

77. Update your will.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 02:48 PM

78. The wife doesn't want it in the house. That's enough.

With or without a safe, you don't get to unilaterally decide to bring a gun into the house. Happy wife, happy life.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 03:24 PM

81. Making a decision about bringing a gun into the

house without talking to your partner first - that is wrong - bringing a gun into the house where there is a child and not talking to your partner first - that is doubly wrong - bringing a gun into the house where there is a child with probable mental health problems and not talking to your partner first - wtf!

This couple needs to get themselves some counseling and learn how to communicate before the husband even thinks about buying a gun.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 05:57 PM

90. My advice: Report the father to a mental health professional

Hopefully, he'll then fail the background check and can't buy the gun. Problem solved.

(No, I don't believe a word of what I just wrote. I can fantasize, cant I?)

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Response to dickthegrouch (Reply #90)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:22 AM

108. Glad you don't believe it.

 

Destroying a family isn't funny.

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Response to Pete Cortez (Reply #108)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 04:31 PM

116. It's the idiot father who's going to destroy that family

She's already said "Over her dead body" does a gun come into that house.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 07:44 AM

94. i like her response.

over my dead body will you bring a gun into my house.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:19 AM

105. Before we even get to the issue of firearms...

 

...here's what I know. Ms. Vercelletto thought it was perfectly okay to publicly debase her own son, make fun of his friendlessness, and speculate on his capacity for mass murder. That in and of itself colors how I read the exchange she had with her husband, who comes off as considerably more reasonable.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:59 PM

114. Check the 'Medications' the child is taking...

My son was prescribed 6 different medications to deal with allergies and asthma, by his pediatrician and pulmonary specialist.

He was taking Singulair, Rhinocort, Albuterol, Advair, Zyrtec and another one I cannot recall.

One day, he threatened to kill himself to his mother. This prompted an immediate call to psych services and enrollment with a psychologist. One of the first things I did was to review the medications he was taking.

It turned out that the combination of allergy and asthma medications he was taking created a compound that would induce symptoms of ADHD and depression. I slowly pulled him off of the drugs, especially the ones that had side-effects of high or lows. See many of these drugs either would make the patient hyper while others would be a depressant. The drugs were in conflict with each other.

LATER IT WAS DISCOVERED THAT SINGULAIR CAUSED SUICIDAL THOUGHTS IN TEENAGERS!

My son is no longer taking any medication, just a rescue inhaler, which he uses once a year or so.

The taking of these drugs seemed to have also induced or exacerbated his breathing difficulties - which led to more drug prescriptions. The way they were mixing seemed to have relaxed his breathing abilities while depressing his thoughts. The other drugs excited him which tired him out.

In 2 months, after my son was completely pulled off of all this prescriptions, he won a class award...

THE MOST IMPROVED STUDENT OF THE YEAR AND RECEIVED TICKETS TO A BASEBALL GAME AND WALKED ON THE FIELD PREGAME!

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