So... It looks like Indiana is the next "Right to work" State

[w8liftinglady]

Breaking: Indiana House Passes RTW

http://blog.aflcio.org/2012/01/25/breaking-indiana-house-passes-rtw/

Moments ago, the Indiana state House passed a right to work for less bill by 55 to 41. The issue now moves to the state Senate, where it’s expected to be taken up and voted on next week. The Senate previously passed a different version of the bill.

Working Hoosiers by the thousands have been rallying in opposition to right to work for less each day and plan to keep it up as Gov. Mitch Daniels and his Republican statehouse colleagues push to ram through the measure.

Indiana House Speaker Brian Bosma and Gov. Mitch Daniels have been ramming the so-called right to
work bill through even after the voters have made clear that they want a public referendum on the controversial anti-worker measure. Only one-third of Indiana voters favor passing the RTW for less law and a whopping 69 percent of Hoosier voters say that the Indiana General Assembly should slow down
the process to allow more debate. An overwhelming 71 percent of respondents want to give voters—not
the legislature—the final say on this controversial legislation

[SoapBox]

1. I worked in Arizona for a couple of years...

And our bastard employer was ALWAYS waving that over our heads.

[jody]

2. Would impoverished states recover under Right To Work laws?

[Bandit]

4. Cheap Labor Republicans

Right To Work for less.......Unions exist for no other reason than to protect workers... Republicans, just the opposite.

[jody]

5. OK but still it appears that right to work states may have slightly lower unemployment. nt

[badtoworse]

11. Right to work for less? It's also the right to work for more if you're worth it.

[nanabugg]

12. Now overlay a food stamp map and a map that shows which states get the most Fed subsidies per capita

[2ndAmForComputers]

21. "Forced-Unionism State?????" What the hell kind of a term is that?

Ah, right -- image link goes to www.nrtw.org - RW source.

[jody]

23. Proponents of right-to-work laws point to the Constitutional right to freedom of association,

as well as the common-law principle of private ownership of property. They argue that workers should be free to join unions and to refrain, and thus sometimes refer to non-right-to-work states as "forced unionism" states.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-work_law

[2ndAmForComputers]

24. "Forced unionism" is a RIGHT-WING LIE.

People are not "forced to join a union" in non-"RTW" States.

It's over-the-top extremist rhetoric just like "death panels", "gun grabbers", "welfare queens", "liberal media" etc.

[jwirr]

26. I noticed that right away. I lived in a right to works state most of my life and wages are low

because in our area of the state farmers wives worked to suppliment the farm income and did not care if they were union or not. They did not have to make a living wage. The farm income provided that. Which left the rest of us living on wages that did not cover our needs. No thank you.

[Dokkie]

32. and cost of living is also low

I have lived in a right to work state and a non right to work state and the cost of living is one big difference with both. Its just the fact of life, pay people more money and the people living ther require more money to survive. Its the catch 22

[jwirr]

39. I did not find that true in Minnesota when I moved from Iowa but I supposed it can be.

[badtoworse]

3. Why should anyone be forced to join a union in order to work?

[jody]

7. Over 92% of private sector workers do not belong to unions. That's more than the 51% required to

elect representatives to repeal right to work laws.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

8. I'm missing how that's relevant

Anyone that wants to join a union should be able to, but I'm not sure that workers that don't want to should be forced to. So long as they have to pay an agency fee, that is.

[jody]

9. See #2 re forced unionism states. nt

[jwirr]

27. Workers vote to become union companies. The majority wins. It is a democratic process. Of course

there are the losers who voted against it and they pay dues and are represented just like anyone else. It is kind of like our US government. But of course there are the rethug voters who are forced to pay taxes to that government they do not want. Guess you think that is unfair also?

[jody]

38. I believe "Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable

conditions of work and to protection against unemployment", Article 23.1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

The Economic Policy Institute found that in right-to-work states both the unemployment rate and the cost of living were lower.

See http://www.epi.org/page/-/old/briefingpapers/BriefingPaper299.pdf

[NNN0LHI]

13. I wasn't forced to join the union when I started working at Ford in 1973

I could have chose to work at the non-union factory down the street for less than half the pay and no benefits if that is what I wanted.

Not sure what your point is?

Don

[SickOfTheOnePct]

14. True

But anyone in the union factory that had voted against or didn't want to join the union had to join it anyway or lose their jobs.

I'm in favor of unions, but I'm still not sure I agree with union shops...I go back and forth.

[NNN0LHI]

17. What is there to go back and forth about?

Either someone wants to make top pay and benefits in a union shop or they want to work for less in a non-union shop.

Pretty cut and dried which one I would take.

Don

[SickOfTheOnePct]

18. It's not that cut and dried

The union cashiers at my local store make no more than the non-union cashiers that work right next to them. The cashiers that want to join the union do, and the ones that don't want to don't.

[standingtall]

41. Reason why non union employees make as much as non union members in union shop

Of course the non union members make just as much as union members in a union shop. Anytime the union negotiates a contract with the company the company will match it with non union employees to keep non union employees from joining the union.


When the company is really trying to bust a union in a rtw state they might try this tactic as they have before. Say the union is bargaining for a 25 cent raise. They might temporarily go ahead, and give that to non union employees, and deny it to union members until the union is gone.And the raises non union employees got will be gone soon after. Rtw is a divide and conquer strategy. "First the honey.Then the fly swatter."

[standingtall]

43. That's the way it should be

If a shop votes a union in you should either pay your dues, or seek employment elsewhere.

[badtoworse]

16. If you were qualified to work at a higher than entry level, could you have done so?

If you were more productive than others at your pay grade, could they pay you more? I belonged to a union early in my career and was in that position. I was producing design drawings a lot faster than the more senior guys, but there was no way I could get paid any more than I was because my pay was fixed by the union contract. To add insult to injury, the shop steward gave me a hard time because I was making those guys look bad. That really soured me on unions. That was my first and only experience belonging to a union. I'm good at what I do and I think I've done a lot better on my own.

[NNN0LHI]

19. Who is most qualified is in the eye of the beholder

And the people who always imagined themselves being the most productive and most qualified workers never actually were.

They were just the ones who were better at sucking the bosses ass and felt they should get paid better for doing that.

I watched them in action too. I couldn't figure out how they could go home after sucking the bosses ass all day and look into their wife and kids eyes. I would have been ashamed.

Know something else? When the layoffs came all that sucking ass didn't help them either. They got laid off in line with seniority just like the rest of us. I remember looking in their eyes and they were shell shocked. They couldn't believe that after all that ass sucking they were losing their job right along with the rest of us.

Imagine that.

Don

[badtoworse]

20. Everyone's experience is different and I agree with you about suck ups - I've seen 'em myself.

It's been 36 years since I left that union job and I've done far better without a union than I ever would have done with one. On my last 3 jobs, the employers contacted me when they learned I was available. One paid me a bonus to sign. Kissing ass doesn't get you that, but having a reputation and being good at what you do can and did in my case.

I'm glad you're happy being a union guy; it's obviously working for you. In my case, it would have greatly limited what I was able to accomplish.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

31. Because their employer makes it a condition of employment.

I don't believe unions should have the power to force employers not to employ people outside the union by illegal means.

But it's entirely legitimate for unions to make an agreement not to employ non-union members part of industrial negotiations.

[badtoworse]

36. What you're describing is called a union shop

Lots of people disagree with you about whether it's legitimate, myself included.

[ecstatic]

6. We're at war, but I don't think many of us realize it yet

People are still planning to waste their votes on third parties while the right wing takes over.

[underpants]

10. Say goodbye to the tax base

[SickOfTheOnePct]

15. Not sure why

People that are happy with their union membership will retain it.

[B Calm]

29. A union is strong as it's membership. This

action by republicans have only one thing in mind and that is to weaken the union membership. Republicans once again show that they hate working people and they're all about cheap labor. Republicans know when working people get tired of being over a barrel, then form a labor union and stick together that wages and benefits go up. My god, we can't have that! Google: Cheap Labor Conservative!!

Republicans also know unions support democratic politicans because they stick up for workers rights. So republicans are on a crusade to destroy what little contributions the democratic party receive, thinking it will help them win reelections. But their little crusade is turning this country into a right to work for less country so they can compete with countries like RED CHINA and quickly doing away with the middle class.

[hunter]

22. They're pining for days of old...

Lewis Hine, Midnight at the glassworks, Indiana, August 1908

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Hine

[laundry_queen]

25. Canada's jobs are being outsourced to Indiana now

via Caterpillar - for half the salary. Half. From a company that's posting record profits.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/02/04/toronto-electro-motive-plant-closure.html

Progress Rail Services Corp., a subsidiary of U.S. construction equipment conglomerate Caterpillar, announced the closure of the locomotive plant Friday.

The company locked out 450 workers from the facility on Jan. 1. Costs were the main factor in the dispute, with the company pushing certain employees to take a 50-per-cent pay cut, despite making nearly $5 billion last year.

(snip)....

On Wednesday, Indiana passed a right-to-work bill, after pressure from Caterpillar, that allows workers to opt out of union membership.

"I don't think this timing is a coincidence," London-based economist Mike Moffatt told CBC News. "Because Caterpillar got the legislation it wanted and the governor was then able to promote the jobs that legislation brought to Indiana."



Jobs that USED to pay a living wage and no longer do. Race to the bottom....

[B Calm]

28. E-mail from Indiana State Senator Phil Boots / Republican

Thank you very much for taking the time to share your thoughts on Right to Work. As you are aware, this has been a polarizing issue that has attracted quite a bit of attention in both the House of Representatives and the Senate. I truly appreciate your input on this important matter.



I have been a consistent supporter of this measure during my time in the Indiana Senate. I firmly believe that by enacting this legislation, we can strengthen Indiana's economic attractiveness.



Over the summer, the Interim Study Committee on Employment Issues took over 20 hours of testimony on the issue. There were a number of arguments made both in favor and in opposition to the bill. While many opponents believe the bill will weaken or destroy unions, lower wages, and allow free-riders on the backs of union dues-payers, the bill simply allows individuals to refrain from contributing to unions.



The bill is not an attack on unions. It is rather a means to ensure an individual's freedom of association. If you so choose, you can still pay union dues and you can still work with your union to collectively bargain with your employer. However, if you do not wish to contribute, you will not be forced to as a condition of employment.



Unions still exist in right to work states and in some cases they are stronger and have a higher percentage of membership than unions in Indiana. The unions in these states have proven to their members and to the workforce that they are a valuable asset. I believe that if Indiana's unions prove their worth by providing services that are in the best interests of their membership, they will thrive in Indiana.



Indiana has created an attractive business environment. But ever since last year, our neighboring states have become nervous because they feel that if Indiana is a Right to Work state, we will be more attractive to companies wishing to expand or relocate. They have begun to look into enacting similar laws themselves. Last year, we brought in a record number of new jobs and companies to Indiana, but we cannot rest. We must stay competitive and Right to Work will help us to do so. Until we are number one in job creation and ranked number one by site selectors, we will do everything we can to get there.



Once again, thank you very much for informing me of your opinions on this important issue. I truly appreciate your active participation and welcome your continued input on all issues pertaining to state government.



Sincerely,



Phil Boots

State Senator

District 23

[email protected]

[standingtall]

34. Dont believe a word you just said

Any politician that says rtw legislation is not an attack on organized labor is a liar plain, and simple. It's absolutely an attack on organized labor. And your claim about personal freedoms allowing new employees to decline paying union dues as a condition of employment is complete bs. There are many jobs that force employees to pay for uniforms, and their own equipment as a condition of employment. Where is your legislation for that? This all about weakening the bargaining power of the working class, and serve your masters the %1.

[B Calm]

35. I hope the word you is in

reference to the republican State Senator Phil Boots. LOL

Damn right, it's all about making this country a right to work for less country so we can compete with the RED CHINESE.

[taught_me_patience]

30. They get what they voted for.

And all the consequences that come with it.

[raccoon]

33. Sorry to hear that. The race to the bottom continues. nt

[unionworks]

37. I can't beliece

I am seeing anti union posts on this website. And they wonder why the smart people are.leaving.

[B Calm]

40. Freepers are learning how to

post their cheap labor conservative philosophy without being too disruptive.

[drokhole]

42. "Right to work" is some of the most serious Orwellian shit as of late