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Fri Jan 18, 2013, 01:28 PM

Democratic Party Divided As Obama Inauguration Approaches - FDL

Democratic Party Divided As Obama Inauguration Approaches
By: DSWright - FDL
Friday January 18, 2013 6:47 am

<snip>

But almost as soon as the echo of Obama’s inaugural address fades and he becomes a lame duck, Democrats are going to have to face a central and unresolved question about their political identity: Will they become a center-left, Democratic Leadership Council-by-a-different-name party or return to a populist, left-leaning approach that mirrors their electoral coalition?

Calling the DLC “center-left” is a bit of a misnomer. The correct division is between Corporate Liberals and progressives. Those that genuinely believe (or are paid to genuinely believe) that the growth of Corporate Power in American society is not only a positive development but necessary for progress. On the other side are the progressives who believe the power of capital – particularly finance capital – has grown to the point of suffocating democracy and the possibility for progress. No easy divide to bridge.

“The real struggle within the Democratic Party is where you stand on income inequality and whether the government needs to be a part of fixing that problem,” said Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.), co-chairman of the Congressional Progressive Caucus. “The demographics that the Democratic Party must attract are the people who need responsive government.”


In no debate is this divide more clear than on entitlements where Corporate Liberals have decided to swallow right-wing talking points whole despite all evidence to the contrary. They also have, to an embarrassing degree, embraced Wall Street’s worldview on debt. After bailing out the banks – making private debts public debts – the Corporate Liberals have sided with the Republicans to now extract debt payments from the lower classes to pay off that odious debt.

AFL-CIO political director Michael Podhorzer was even blunter.

“There’s no denying that there are two Democratic parties,” said Podhorzer. “One that has a fair amount of allegiance to Wall Street and to the notion that it’s no big deal to raise the retirement age or cut benefits. They see the Democratic coalition of the future being more upscale. But there’s a big part of the party that still sees Democrats as still being anchored by downscale.”


And of course the Corporate Liberals’ biggest blind spot, the environment...


<snip>

Link: http://news.firedoglake.com/2013/01/18/democratic-party-divided-as-obama-inauguration-approaches/


92 replies, 4356 views

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Reply Democratic Party Divided As Obama Inauguration Approaches - FDL (Original post)
WillyT Jan 2013 OP
msongs Jan 2013 #1
xchrom Jan 2013 #2
1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #3
Hekate Jan 2013 #38
DonCoquixote Jan 2013 #51
WillyT Jan 2013 #52
DonCoquixote Jan 2013 #63
Cha Jan 2013 #65
DonCoquixote Jan 2013 #75
brush Jan 2013 #53
octoberlib Jan 2013 #4
ProSense Jan 2013 #5
WillyT Jan 2013 #6
ProSense Jan 2013 #9
octoberlib Jan 2013 #8
greatauntoftriplets Jan 2013 #27
SidDithers Jan 2013 #7
uponit7771 Jan 2013 #17
bahrbearian Jan 2013 #18
WillyT Jan 2013 #20
DevonRex Jan 2013 #23
dionysus Jan 2013 #37
DevonRex Jan 2013 #47
WillyT Jan 2013 #28
SidDithers Jan 2013 #30
WillyT Jan 2013 #32
emulatorloo Jan 2013 #72
dionysus Jan 2013 #36
WillyT Jan 2013 #40
Cha Jan 2013 #68
Tarheel_Dem Jan 2013 #84
Motown_Johnny Jan 2013 #10
Comrade_McKenzie Jan 2013 #11
michigandem58 Jan 2013 #12
OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #13
dreamnightwind Jan 2013 #14
WillyT Jan 2013 #16
gateley Jan 2013 #33
WillyT Jan 2013 #34
gateley Jan 2013 #48
WillyT Jan 2013 #49
gateley Jan 2013 #67
dreamnightwind Jan 2013 #62
bahrbearian Jan 2013 #92
forestpath Jan 2013 #15
whatchamacallit Jan 2013 #19
WillyT Jan 2013 #21
whatchamacallit Jan 2013 #24
DevonRex Jan 2013 #22
Autumn Jan 2013 #25
msanthrope Jan 2013 #26
ProSense Jan 2013 #29
Kingwithnothrone Jan 2013 #45
ProSense Jan 2013 #56
Kingwithnothrone Jan 2013 #60
ProSense Jan 2013 #61
Kingwithnothrone Jan 2013 #66
Kingwithnothrone Jan 2013 #46
graham4anything Jan 2013 #31
emulatorloo Jan 2013 #74
DainBramaged Jan 2013 #35
MrSlayer Jan 2013 #39
Octafish Jan 2013 #41
WillyT Jan 2013 #43
socialist_n_TN Jan 2013 #42
WillyT Jan 2013 #44
Oilwellian Jan 2013 #50
ProSense Jan 2013 #57
WillyT Jan 2013 #58
ProSense Jan 2013 #59
Cha Jan 2013 #64
ancianita Jan 2013 #69
DevonRex Jan 2013 #70
socialist_n_TN Jan 2013 #76
WillyT Jan 2013 #78
ProSense Jan 2013 #79
WillyT Jan 2013 #82
ProSense Jan 2013 #83
DevonRex Jan 2013 #87
DevonRex Jan 2013 #86
socialist_n_TN Jan 2013 #89
WillyT Jan 2013 #90
MannyGoldstein Jan 2013 #54
WillyT Jan 2013 #55
upi402 Jan 2013 #71
emulatorloo Jan 2013 #73
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #77
creon Jan 2013 #80
LWolf Jan 2013 #81
CheapShotArtist Jan 2013 #85
Tarheel_Dem Jan 2013 #88
arely staircase Jan 2013 #91

Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 01:32 PM

1. DLC is center right - there is nothing populist about today's democratic party INC nt

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 01:40 PM

2. Du rec. Nt

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 01:40 PM

3. Thank you for your concern and comment, FDL ...

Now don't you have a republican to back?

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #3)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 07:59 PM

38. Maybe they'll interview Kucinich for his pov on the "division"

So very concerned as they are.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #38)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 11:07 PM

51. what do jane Hamsher and dennis have in common

answer, they both take money from the GOP to spite Obama.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1337889

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Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #51)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 11:10 PM

52. And The Democrats Take Lots Of Corporate Money Too... What's Your Point ???


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Response to WillyT (Reply #52)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:29 AM

63. The point is

They attack Obama for not being pure, and they take money from the GOP, and know that the GOP uses them, and they do not care.

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Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #51)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:41 AM

65. The Profiteering Left.. with

enough suckers willing to keep them in style.

Dennis Kucinich, former congressman and icon of the anti-war left, has signed up as an analyst for Fox News. He will debut on “The O’Reilly Factor” Thursday night.

“Through 16 years in Congress and two presidential campaigns, FOX News has always provided me with an opportunity to share my perspective with its enormous viewership,” Kucinich (D-Ohio) said in a statement. “I look forward to a continuation of our relationship this time as a FOX News contributor.”


Not that anyone should really be surprised. Dennis Kucinich and Fox always have shared a common bond and a common belief: that ideological warfare is more important than progress. Or at least, that it's more profitable. And of course, after you get kicked out of Congress by a real Democrat, it's not that unusual for profiteering politicians to fall into the loving arms and green contracts of Fox News.

http://www.thepeoplesview.net/2013/01/professional-lefts-boyfriend-signs-up.html

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Response to Cha (Reply #65)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:11 PM

75. If I could put this in the hall of fame

I would, because a lot of "Kucinichbots" are putting their eyes out to remain blind.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #3)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 11:14 PM

53. Exactly right

This poster is trying to distract us from the actually, as we speak, splintering of the repug party. We're not falling for it. Good try though.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 01:42 PM

4. I would not call them Corporate Liberals

but rather Republicans in Democratic clothing. SS and Medicare are soul of the party. Where are we as a party if we stop caring about the poor, the elderly and the environment?

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 01:43 PM

5. LOL! Gotta love FDL quoting a Politico piece

Politico:

Up next for Obama: A looming Democratic divide

As President Barack Obama approaches his second inaugural on Monday, he presides over a party that has largely papered over its divisions for the past four years thanks to the president’s commanding popularity.

But almost as soon as the echo of Obama’s inaugural address fades and he instantly becomes a lame duck...

Dream on. Never mind that the GOP is imploding.

Don't think FDL is a cesspool, here:

The democratic party is rotten to the core.

Fuck the democratic party and the Ronald Reagan in Kenyan Sheepherder’s clothing who epitomizes its bullshit facade.

Now, back to local politics: fuck the democratic party.

http://news.firedoglake.com/2013/01/18/democratic-party-divided-as-obama-inauguration-approaches/#comment-228407



Some good reads:

Krugman: Extortionists Versus Con Men
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022213941

The Morning Plum: The increasingly isolated GOP
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022201031

And if you're interested in climate change policy:

Beyond baby steps: Analyzing the cap-and-trade flop
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022194635

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Response to ProSense (Reply #5)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 01:52 PM

6. No Comment On What Keith Ellison(D) Has To Say ??? Or The Political Director Of The AFL-CIO ???

Seems to me that THEY are part of the Democratic Coalition.


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Response to WillyT (Reply #6)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 02:03 PM

9. When I go to a Politico article

stringing together quotes to create the impression that the Democratic Party is in turmoil, and illustrated with photos of Elizabeth Warren and Rahm Emanuel (WTF do these two have to do with each other), I tend to ignore it.

I mean, the piece is trying to create the impression that Obama's second term dealings with Congress has anything to do with elected Democrats across the country...as if there is supposed to be a monolithic bloc that defines whether or not the President is a "lame duck."

Beyond silly. The Democratic Party is going to work to elect Democrats in the next election.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #5)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 01:58 PM

8. Oh, I see. They're projecting

I'm not really familiar with firedoglake.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #5)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 07:23 PM

27. FDL is for birthers....



I like this one (not):

I will never vote for another democratic , even so called progressive wing will come out and say , I won’t vote for this bill, only to cave when the vote comes up .It ain’t nothing but a kubucki show.


"Kubucki"???

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 01:53 PM

7. ...



Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #7)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 06:28 PM

17. lol

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #7)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 06:55 PM

18. Oh, its you.



So who did you finally decide to vote for Sid ?

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Response to bahrbearian (Reply #18)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 07:02 PM

20. Hey Man... Don't Mess With The Hall Monitor... He'll Ask To See Your Papers...




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Response to SidDithers (Reply #7)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 07:07 PM

23. hee hee

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #23)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 07:56 PM

37. i see the tiny fists are a-flailing again.. care for a truffle?

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Response to dionysus (Reply #37)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 08:55 PM

47. I do!!

This place is a real hoot today. Krugman admits Obama outplayed the GOP, complete with kitten gif in the NYT and all they can come up with is a dreary gloomy FDL article. So sad.






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Response to SidDithers (Reply #7)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 07:26 PM

28. Yeah...




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Response to WillyT (Reply #28)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 07:33 PM

30. Really? That's the best you could come up with?...

Thought you were more clever than that, Willy.



Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #30)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 07:41 PM

32. I Am... But It's Been A Long Work Week Making Sure That California's Unemployed Get Their Checks...

Lot's of work, considering our little crew takes care of the largest state in the Union... all by ourselves.


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Response to WillyT (Reply #28)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 04:58 AM

72. Nice try, Hamsher/Norquist fanboy

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #7)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 07:55 PM

36. more like "FDL Again Trying to Divide Democratic Party as Inauguration Approaches"

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Response to dionysus (Reply #36)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 08:04 PM

40. Oh... I'm Sure Monday Will Be A Lovely Day... I'll Be Watching And Enjoying It...

It's what happens AFTER the Inauguration that will be interesting to watch.

In WHAT direction does the Democratic Party proceed?

Time will tell.


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Response to dionysus (Reply #36)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 01:02 AM

68. Of course, they are. That's what they do. They're

predictable and boring. Like anyone who wants progress listens to their bullshite.

How's that grover norquist hookup and raging her damn head off about ObamaCare.. working out for hamsher?

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #7)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 01:41 PM

84. !!!!




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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 02:08 PM

10. I don't even consider the DLC part of the Democratic party.

I know that in a technical sense I am wrong. It still seems to me more like an outside group that we use for some of the things which need to get done that we don't want to do.

Kinda like an outside accounting firm. We have our business, they have theirs and we utilize them at times. That is about it.


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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 02:11 PM

11. All Democrats need to follow Obama and OFA's lead or risk being as splintered as the GOP...

 

There are times you have to dry your eyes and play ball with the big boys.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 02:21 PM

12. Dumpster fire Lake strikes again

 

Whose side are they on anyway?

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 02:21 PM

13. You never seem to get tired of posting negative and largely inaccurate crap, do you? nt.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 05:06 PM

14. This is where the real discussion should be

So far in this thread, I see mostly dismissive posts rather than an attempt to participate in this debate. This issue isn't going away.

What the corporate centrists (corporate liberal is an oxymoron in my mind) want is for the rest of us to shut up and fall in line, so they attempt to create a climate where opposing the corporatists is akin to supporting Republicans.

Meanwhile, the progressives are Left Out. Sometimes even pushed out. As are the policies they support. Which is a shame, since they are the policies needed to fix our problems, and they are supported by large portions of our country's citizens.

If I wanted to support Heritage-Wellpoint-Romney-Obama-care, I'd be one of the former "moderate Republicans" who now wander the land in search of a party. I don't, and I don't agree that we need a "uniquely American" solution to this problem. A Medicare-for-all single payer solution is what we need. There are plenty of working models in other countries, too. Controlling or preferably eliminating corporate profits is the key. As it is in so many areas of our increasingly stratified and dysfunctional society. Healthcare is just one example of many.

So, assuming we can agree to support more populist or progressive policies, the question needs to be, how do we get there? Already I see people clamoring for someone like HRC or Biden to lead us in 2016. Why? That's the same road we're on, with politicians who campaign to the center-left and then govern from the center-right.

That road (the one we're on) enables endless foreign interventions, whether overt or covert. Bending over for the financial industry. Tiny tax code tweaks instead of seriously attempting to roll back the massive upward skewing of wealth this country has gone through in the last 35 years or so. Continuing the failed drug policies that have filled our prisons with people who should be living freely. Giving support for education "reformers" whose solutions move us closer to private interests, producing human resources that will make good cogs in the corporate machine rather than the informed critical thinkers we need to be a vital democracy. An unaccountable and vastly overreaching national security apparatus. Paying little more than lip service to the most important issue or our time, really of any time, the looming environmental crisis which has been directly caused by this same corporate-military paradigm.

Yes, we have a divided party. We have a divided DU along these same lines. The OP is pointing to this important ideological divide. K & R.



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Response to dreamnightwind (Reply #14)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 06:27 PM

16. "corporate liberal is an oxymoron in my mind" - Me Too... Or Simply Moronic...




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Response to dreamnightwind (Reply #14)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 07:43 PM

33. "So far in this thread, I see mostly dismissive posts rather than an attempt to participate..."

That's how it is far too often these days. Sometimes I feel like there are just vultures hovering waiting to attack. It serves no purpose other than to make the snarker feel superior for "putting down" the poster, and hijacks important threads. It's sure not the old DU, and it's sad.

I agree with much of what you say, BUT I'm one of those who feels any step toward our goal is a step away from the way things are that aren't working. Look at Gay Rights -- step by step, a lot has been achieved (my State voted to approve gay marriage) and that gives me hope even MORE will be achieved as we continue on.

The ACA thing bothers me, but again, I feel we DID get a lot of good (along with the crap) and we can build on that, hopefully.

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Response to gateley (Reply #33)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 07:50 PM

34. And Ironically... I STILL Have Hope... BUT... These Things Need To Be Discussed... And Fought For...

AFL-CIO political director Michael Podhorzer was even blunter.

“There’s no denying that there are two Democratic parties,” said Podhorzer. “One that has a fair amount of allegiance to Wall Street and to the notion that it’s no big deal to raise the retirement age or cut benefits. They see the Democratic coalition of the future being more upscale. But there’s a big part of the party that still sees Democrats as still being anchored by downscale.”


From OP.


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Response to WillyT (Reply #34)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 09:37 PM

48. But I don't think it's that cut and dried --

The two examples cited are issues that I feel very strongly about. On those, I see NO wiggle room for "compromise". We've compromised enough.

But there are some decisions Obama has made that, while I hate them, I realize he gave to get (and looking back at the unyielding opposition on EVERYTHING, I'm surprised he made any gains at all). But I have no allegiance to Wall Street -- I despise their despicable actions with every fiber of my being. I'm not the only one, I'm sure, who is more forgiving (maybe pragmatic is a better word) when it comes to these unfortunate, and at times, heartbreaking actions.

But I agree there ARE some who don't feel the betrayal or outrage of what it has done to us and our country.

It's sad.

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Response to gateley (Reply #48)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 09:46 PM

49. True... Did You See This ???

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Response to WillyT (Reply #49)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:47 AM

67. No! Hadn't seen that! How/why do we let to Banks and Government do this to

our citizens? Too often it's as though we're the "enemy".

I've heard repeatedly of Social Security automatically denying a claim the first time around. Why is that better than some for-profit agency? And the WAIT -- what are people supposed to do in the interim?

Sometimes I just want to weep.

These banks are always just flicking it off and continuing on with no repercussions.

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Response to gateley (Reply #33)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 11:59 PM

62. I'm not entirely unrealistsic

No way do I expect progressives to get everything they want (I'm not saying you said that, just elaborating on my position). Often it seems to me progressives don't get anything at all. I can even handle losing on an issue, in fact I expect it.

Where I draw my personal lines is I try to distill what it is that the politician or legislation in question is attempting to do. ACA has some positive things, such as expanding coverage, hopefully it will end the pre-existing condition rejections, and some other things. Overall, though, and there are better examples than health care, but it seemed to me that this reform was intended to lock us into a corporate solution, rather than a less expensive public one. Could we have gotten a public solution then? No, I don't think so. We should, however, have fought like dogs for it, then compromised down to a private system with a competing public option, all the while going kicking and screaming to that compromise as if we had gotten nothing. Instead, Obama secretly negotiated away any possibility of a public option, and also didn't fight for getting Medicare D to be able to bargain down drug prices, like every other country does. It was a giveaway to the corporations, from the beginning. So Obama was never on the track I support.

It was even worse with the handling of the mortgage crisis. HAMP was an absolute giveaway to the banks, very few homeowners were helped by it. Principle reduction for troubled properties was off the table. The trillions lost in deflated assets and blown up securities were paid off on the side of the lenders, then they give us austerity to pay these private debts (and not OUR private debts, not the debts that became overwhelming to homeowners who lost jobs and couldn't sell their underwater homes, but the mortgage originators, and, worse, the imaginary money they had created through insanely leveraged securities on those same mortgages) from the pockets of taxpayers. This was completely unsupportable, and is a good example of corporate Dems working on the wrong side of an issue.

So I don't see the party embodied by Obama, Biden, and Clinton(s) getting us much of anything we need. Their entire perspective is that of the fat cats. Sure, they'll try to put a human face and a gentle hand on it, so they can successfully defeat Republicans in elections, and also because they truly aren't quite as bad as those guys. But they're just a slightly kinder version of the same animal, one which is devouring the middle class, devouring the environment, and actively works to subvert any alternative political models.

Anyway thanks for your post and for its reasoned discussion. I have seen your posts before and know that you're more accepting of our party's direction than I am, though ultimately we may be looking for similar things.

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Response to dreamnightwind (Reply #62)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 10:56 PM

92. Right On

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 05:06 PM

15. When Obama ran SS cuts up the flagpole and Pelosi saluted, I think it

 

became crystal clear which direction the Democratic Party is going to go in.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 07:00 PM

19. Here's how this thread will go

One group of democrats angrily shouting "there's no divide" at another group of democrats. lol.

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Response to whatchamacallit (Reply #19)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 07:05 PM

21. Ironic... No ???



There is NO DIVIDE amongst Democrats... you traitorous DINOS !!!






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Response to WillyT (Reply #21)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 07:08 PM

24. Yep

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 07:06 PM

22. LOL. Poor FDL.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 07:15 PM

25. It will be interesting to see where they go from here.

There is clearly a divide. K/R

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 07:17 PM

26. You Better Believe It!! nt

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 07:30 PM

29. Here's proof there is no "divide"

Fairly certain some people consider members of the Progressive Caucus to be sellouts.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022160908

If it's understood (as claimed) that they support the President (who those making the claim consider a sellout) no matter what, where's the divide?

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Response to ProSense (Reply #29)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 08:21 PM

45. Thoughts on cuts to the safety net

 

You do a lot of cut and paste but offer up nothing on how you feel about possible cuts.If cuts are made are you okay with that Prosense?

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Response to Kingwithnothrone (Reply #45)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 11:37 PM

56. "You do a lot of cut and paste"

You're too damn familiar, and yet you have no clue.

Welcome to DU.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #56)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 11:54 PM

60. No stance on the safety net?

 

Simple question really.Do you support cuts to the safety net such as (raising the retirement age,chained CPI,and benefit cuts for future retirees) and will you defend them if that should happen.

Been lurking here for years Prosense,why would i be unfamiliar with your loyalty to this administration at all costs?You can use all the witty one liners you want but why will you not answer the question.You would like to play advocate for both sides of the issue and tell people to chill out and see what happens(once it happens it is too late),without making a stance it seems to me.

I support no cuts to these programs.Can you guarantee that will not happen in Barack Obama's second term or do you support cuts to these programs?

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Response to Kingwithnothrone (Reply #60)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 11:55 PM

61. "Been lurking here for years Prosense"

Then you should know, and I don't have to guarantee you anything. Did you sign up looking for a babysitter?



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Response to ProSense (Reply #61)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:45 AM

66. You won't state your case

 

and I think you will indeed support anything this administration does.If cuts do happen,you will have no place to hide or you will have to state your case against what was done.And by the way,i hope you're right and there are no cuts and it is all griefer poutrage spewing from a spoiled child who needs a babysitter.

If Barack Obama would stand on that podium and announce to the country in very simple terms.

Enough,we will not balance budgets by cutting programs that the people who have been hurt the most depend on for survival.Then i will give him a some respect for that pledge.Cheers

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Response to ProSense (Reply #29)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 08:27 PM

46. Thoughts on cuts to the safety net

 

What are your feelings on possible cuts to the safety net.If it were to happen are you okay with that ProSense?

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 07:34 PM

31. Divide? 10% extreme left, 90% extreme happy with Obama.

 

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #31)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 05:07 AM

74. 10 percent pseudo-progressives and trolls. A very LOUD 10 percent

The same handful posting thread after divisive thread. Sons and Daughters of the dearly departed Better Believe It.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 07:53 PM

35. To those pissed off, what's the alternative? WHO is the alternative (until 2016)

you dance with the person you brung to the ball, and if you get your toes stepped on occasionally, buy band aids....

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 08:03 PM

39. Guess who is going to win......

 

The moneyed interests, as always. Big shock, right?

The Reaganites can never allow a win for the People.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 08:05 PM

41. Gee. Don't corporations already have a party?

Repuglians or something like that.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #41)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 08:10 PM

43. LOL !!! - But It's ALL About The Money Dontcha Know ???




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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 08:09 PM

42. In spite of the source, this article brings up a salient point......

about the Dems. Now, of course the Republicans are divided too, but this article was talking about the Democrats, not the Republicans. There IS a divide amongst people who normally vote Democratic in elections between the corporatists and the populist groups. And at some point in the future, if this goes on, there will be a split. And yes, it's the same on the Republican side too. Who splits first is the real question. We're headed for 4 parties.

Actually, the Third Way types, the "pragmatic moderate centrists" on here should be OK with this split. You can absorb your Chris Christies and Charlie Crists and not miss a beat. AND you won't have to worry about the silly lefties trying to influence the neo-liberal agenda. That's a win n'est pas?

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Response to socialist_n_TN (Reply #42)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 08:12 PM

44. + 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!!






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Response to socialist_n_TN (Reply #42)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 10:46 PM

50. ROFL

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Response to socialist_n_TN (Reply #42)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 11:42 PM

57. It's FDL. They love any "salient point" that's anti-Obama/Democrats

They'll throw anyone under a bus for supporting the President. When Kucinich voted for health care reform, Jane Hamsher launched a site demanding he return donations.

She called the bill "fascism." (Sound familiar: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022201466)

Rather than actually helping the poor, this bill is a dangerous and unprecedented step on the road to domination of government by private corporate players who use it to suppress competition and secure their profits — the textbook definition of fascism.

http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2010/03/17/dennis-kucinich-will-return-money-to-donors/



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Response to ProSense (Reply #57)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 11:48 PM

58. Well... Since You Are An Avid Reader Of FDL... You Should Know...

That they represent what many of us thought the Democratic Party has been for many years.

And if it is changing... please, please... tell me what's to come.


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Response to WillyT (Reply #58)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 11:52 PM

59. Who in their right mind thinks the ACA is "fascism"? n/t

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Response to ProSense (Reply #59)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:32 AM

64. The dumbest MOFO on

the Planet, jane hamsher.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #57)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 01:10 AM

69. He got donations on the promise to fight for Single Payer, then he backed down. I went to

Washington to protest with doctors and nurses for Single Payer, and Kucinich came out as the Big Talker he is to give us a 'consolation prize' speech. I've watched how he backs out of floor fights or whipping votes. He's seldom been the progressive he's presented himself to be. On that issue, Hamsher was right.

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Response to socialist_n_TN (Reply #42)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 02:45 AM

70. LOL, when you actually have a party that matters

I'll care. All you do is nitpick at us. Organize yourselves first. Get yourselves a platform that people will pay attention to. Anything instead of this silliness. Jill Stein? What an embarrassment.

Now you're pointing fingers at US and labeling US and just hoping WE will fall apart so you can pick up our crumbs? Good grief. Just maybe what's wrong with your "movement" is that you guys just aren't really doing anything. Just maybe you guys should be evaluating YOURSELVES and criticizing yourselves instead of us. Maybe you should concentrate on how to attract people to your message, whatever that is (other than that you have contempt for Democrats).

That is my constructive criticism for 3rd parties on DU. Because as people some of you are OK. I love one or two of you dearly, the ones who withheld their criticism of Obama prior to the election I have the utmost respect for. And if we had a parliamentary system, you bet I'd vote as far left as I possibly could and still have my vote matter. But that's not our reality here.

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #70)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:16 PM

76. Hey, I'm not advocating anything, I (and I think the article itself)..........

are merely pointing out the inevitability of a split. There is an essential truth that there is a divide among people who normally vote Democratic. That divide is between people who support a neo-liberal economic agenda (albeit of a softer nature than the Republican version) and people who support a more populist agenda. Since these two agendas are ultimately antithetical in nature, a split is the logical outcome. As I said in my post, the Republicans are also facing strains between those who support a neo-liberal agenda and those who support a "John Birch" or proto fascist type of agenda. It's easy to see the four parties forming out of this.

BTW, who's pointing fingers? I merely pointed out that people who support a neo-liberal economic agenda (the Third Way, No Labels types) should be completely happy with this split. Logically, they would be the larger grouping in this potential restructuring and it would have the added attraction of not having to pay ANY attention to the populists.

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Response to socialist_n_TN (Reply #76)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:37 PM

78. Exactly...



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Response to WillyT (Reply #78)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:44 PM

79. You actually believe this crap?

"Hey, I'm not advocating anything, I (and I think the article itself)..........are merely pointing out the inevitability of a split. There is an essential truth that there is a divide among people who normally vote Democratic. That divide is between people who support a neo-liberal economic agenda (albeit of a softer nature than the Republican version) and people who support a more populist agenda."

Newsflash: Every party gains its overall support by building coalitions. Do you think that when Presidents win by a landslide (FDR or Reagan) it's because everyone who votes for them is left or right?

People have been pushing the "inevitability of a split" in the Democratic Party for years. They do this shit constantly.

What's hilarious is while the reality shows a more unified Democratic Party in years and a more fractured Republican Party, the poster is trying to advance a silly meme.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #79)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 01:09 PM

82. Why Wouldn't I ??? - I Know DU Is Not The Democratic Party, But It's One Hell Of A Sample...

and in case you haven't noticed... there's plenty of division here.

As the Corporatist Democrats gain in numbers and strength, you will begin losing more and more populist/progressives.

Hell... you have Ed Rendell on TV every other day telling us how entitlements need to be cut in order to have debt reduction. But I'm sure Big Eddie won't be feeling any pain.


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Response to WillyT (Reply #82)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 01:12 PM

83. Really? The President won by a landslide

depite the "dump him" campaign.

The people, including the media and Republicans, who were trying to split the party failed.

Party ID Shifts Back To Democrats In 2012
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/09/party-id-gallup-poll_n_2441614.html

It wasn't a tie. That was all a big lie.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #83)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 03:13 PM

87. Should we tell them that Dems always argue? Always have, always will?

Or just let them think they're making headway in their little quest to break up the Party? Decisions, decisions. It is amusing to watch. And at last they admitted why they're here, given their contempt for us (waiting for the crumbs when the Dem Party breaks up). So some headway was made on our side.

Oh well, I'm bored with them now.

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Response to socialist_n_TN (Reply #76)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 02:23 PM

86. giggle. Keep waiting and hoping for those crumbs!

Hey, it's a win-win. We'll keep actually governing. And you guys will keep doing nothing.

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #86)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 08:45 PM

89. Well one nice thing about a split on BOTH sides is..........

that the farther left side would be free to advocate policies that the people actually agree with rather than worry about hurting some Third Way or corporatist feelings. You know things like marijuana legalization, progressive taxation on the wealthy, single payer or at least a public Medicare option open for all, not messing with social security or Medicare as it's currently structured, etc. Giggle all you want, if the Democratic Party continues on a path towards a corporatist neo-liberal agenda, it WILL happen.

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Response to socialist_n_TN (Reply #89)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 08:53 PM

90. Yep... Did You See That Patrick Kennedy Is Lobbying For Anti-Marijuana Legislation ???

Apparently these days... ANYONE can be bought.




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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 11:33 PM

54. "Corporate Liberals"?

Coming next, the Jewish wing of al Qaeda?

Oy gevalt!

They are crypto-Republicans, not Liberals!

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #54)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 11:37 PM

55. LOL !!!





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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 03:08 AM

71. Corporate liberals used to be called...

Republicans.

Modern Republicans used to be called...
Whackos!

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 05:05 AM

73. Republican Party Divided, so WillyT tries to create division at DU with Norquist's girlfriend.

Predictable, but now with more desperation!

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:36 PM

77. Holy shit. Does FDL really not know what a lame duck is?

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:47 PM

80. My view

I think that the party is a broad coalition; I suspect that some who vote Democratic were those 'moderate Republicans' who used to ( or usually) vote GOP.

It looks to me that there is a 'practical politics'/'idealism' divide in the Party. The DLC is on on the practical politics side and the progressives are on the idealist side. At the end of the day, they may not actually disagree all that much.

The practical side is much more concerned with doing what is possible ( as determined by them). The idealists want to push the limits of what is 'possible'; to strive to get much more.

The practical side is much more interested in 'tweaking' the system ; making minor repairs is all that can be done. The idealist side says that major reform is long overdue.


The practical side seems more inclined to 'safety first'; more prone to being careful and low risk taking. The idealist seems to tend the other way.

I can easily see how the rhetoric can tend to get a bit overheated. Some care should be taken to moderate the rhetoric.


If the GOP is 'imploding' ( I have real doubts about that), then some of those 'moderate Republicans' may want to vote Democratic Party.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 01:05 PM

81. I wouldn't categorize the corporate wing of the party

as "center-left." It's right of center, and it is destroying the party, as far as I'm concerned.

"Corporate Liberal" is an oxymoron.

What is most disturbing to me is the willingness, the eagerness, of that group, to purge the more traditional base of the party. To disparage, to bully, to demean, anything and anyone that dares to criticize their status quo. Many of the responses in this thread are examples.

Do they really think they can keep winning elections without us?

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 02:19 PM

85. Last time I checked,

Obama had around a 90% approval rating among D's and liberals. I wouldn't exactly call that "divided". Nice try at diverting attention away from the GOP being fractured, FDL.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 03:55 PM

88. Besides the re-election of President Obama, I can't think of anything more gratifying....

than the increasing irrelevance of money grubbing fake assed "leftists" like Jane Hamsher, and her fake ass, GOP money laundering enterprise, NorquistDogLake.


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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 09:03 PM

91. what sweet irony

is anything better than an ally of grover norquist (a man who as much as the rape guys and the nra represents the real division in the gop) is attacking the democrats (who just vanquished their opponents in the election and stood the gop down on the debt cieling/taxes) for being divided?

fdl

lol

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