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Thu Jan 17, 2013, 01:26 PM

Notre Dame Says Te’o Is a Victim. That’s Rich, Considering Their History of Ignoring Actual Victims


Notre Dame is notorious for covering up sexual assault allegations involving its football players, but the school declared star linebacker Manti Te'o a "victim" within mere hours after the news broke that his saintlike dead girlfriend never actually existed. Why is Notre Dame in such a rush to assert Te'o's victimhood while the investigation is still proceeding? Easy: because it strengthens the hero narrative the school relies on for profit and glory. Acknowledging the real victims of jock culture only hurts that narrative.

Did Te'o make up Lennay Kekua, his fake girlfriend who, he told multiple reporters, died of cancer on the same day his grandmother passed away and hours before he led his team to an epic (and selfless) victory against Michigan State last fall, or did he fall for an outlandishly cruel and convoluted internet hoax? His university claims the latter, and says Te'o is an even more inspirational hero for grappling with the soul-crushing trauma of realizing the deceased love of your life was never actually alive.
<snip>
Seeberg died in 2010. The player she accused — whom Notre Dame investigators failed to interview until 15 days after Seeberg reported the attack and five days after she killed herself — was found "not responsible" and didn't miss a day of football practice. In fact, he played in the BCS National Championship game last week.

There isn't much use bemoaning how the Deadspin story on Te'o's fabricated love racked up millions of pageviews in hours while relatively few people know, or care, about Seeberg, who is actually a real woman — and not the only woman we know of who was too intimidated by the Notre Dame football team to report being sexual assaulted by one of their own.
<snip>
http://jezebel.com/5976718/notre-dame-says-manti-teo-is-a-victim-thats-rich-considering-their-history-of-ignoring-actual-victims

Meh! Seeberg is the rel tragedy. Not a peep about that in the nationl media.

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Reply Notre Dame Says Te’o Is a Victim. That’s Rich, Considering Their History of Ignoring Actual Victims (Original post)
Are_grits_groceries Jan 2013 OP
petronius Jan 2013 #1
dballance Jan 2013 #2
aggiesal Jan 2013 #3
Are_grits_groceries Jan 2013 #4
Xyzse Jan 2013 #9
erpowers Jan 2013 #19
get the red out Jan 2013 #5
winterpark Jan 2013 #6
sofa king Jan 2013 #7
kairos12 Jan 2013 #10
Larkspur Jan 2013 #8
Are_grits_groceries Jan 2013 #15
joeybee12 Jan 2013 #17
Are_grits_groceries Jan 2013 #20
friendly_iconoclast Jan 2013 #18
Separation Jan 2013 #11
rusty fender Jan 2013 #12
Separation Jan 2013 #13
Are_grits_groceries Jan 2013 #14
rusty fender Jan 2013 #16
Are_grits_groceries Jan 2013 #21
rusty fender Jan 2013 #22

Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 01:32 PM

1. Just before the championship game, I remembered Seeberg when I saw a fluffy piece

about how ND was rallying around the family of the student assistant who died during a practice (due to poor decisions - at best - by the athletic department). But yeah, never a word about the woman whose life was destroyed...

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 01:40 PM

2. If This Guy Was Mourning a Person Who Never Existed

As opposed to going to the media and saying it's all lies and I had nothing to do with it then he has serious mental issues. He needs to be evaluated for mental illness if he had a love affair with a non-existant person then woke up one day to realize she didn't exist. Any of the rest of us would be in a rubber room for that.

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Response to dballance (Reply #2)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 01:44 PM

3. His ACTUAL Grandmother died as well.

So he was ACTUALLY in mourning for his grandmother.

I have no idea how to treat the girlfriend thing. I'll wait until all
the evidence is in.

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Response to dballance (Reply #2)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 01:56 PM

4. I think at the least

he failed to correct a lot of issues that he knew were false. That's his problem if he wasn't involved in the hoax. If he was in on it, he's toast. I don't know his level of involvement.

I would like to know if he really was that naive a person. He may have lived a conservative and sheltered life, but is he really as innocent as AD Swarbrick said.

One article I read is from a reporter who talked to some ND players. They said they knew his girlfriend story was fake. They were uncomfortable with his and the team's open diaplay of mourning her. He should have stuck with just his grandmother dying.

I also want to know what level of involvement his father had. He has smacked some newspapers who gave his son coverage he didn't like. Maybe he became involved and pushed Manti to go big with the story?

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Response to dballance (Reply #2)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 02:29 PM

9. Thing is... I can easily believe him falling for a fake person

I know of some people who have fallen for fake profiles.
Heck, I almost did.

When you're online, and you are in a forum or any sort of social circle, it is easy enough to make friends and get to know some people. Which is why people have to protect themselves from it.

I at one point and still do at times automatically consider any person I meet online as a middle aged man, no matter how many pictures of a 20 something girl they show to me saying that it is them.

Some relationships can last months and years before they find out.

I know of this person who acted as an "Asian Lesbian" and went around with that persona, he even had a voice modulator that changed his voice to some female when on the phone. He had girlfriends on line, while acting as that Asian woman. I mean, I've known this person for 6 years before it came out that he is actually a guy.

He provided much drama for a while as well.

So yeah, if the guy is a victim from one of these things, I just feel sorry for him. I know how easily it can happen when you find someone who seems to get you. There are now more tools to avoid things like this, but couple that with the ability to erase self doubt due to wanting to believe and act in good faith. That is what happens.

It is also why even up till now, there are scammers in Africa that are still trying to get guys to send them money.

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Response to dballance (Reply #2)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 06:04 PM

19. His Version

I do not know if you know the details of the story, but here is his side. He claims that he met a person online with whom he began a relationship. However, his relationship was confined to emails and phone conversations. At some point he was informed that the person he thought he was dating had died. A few weeks before the National Championship game he somehow became aware that the whole thing was a hoax. He waited three weeks and then informed Notre Dame that he had supposedly been the victim of a hoax. So far it has not been explained whey he waited three weeks to tell Notre Dame. It seems that aside from doing its own investigation Notre Dame sat on the information until yesterday, when the website Deadspin published a story claiming the whole thing was a hoax and Manti Te'o may have played a part in it.

The reason I listed these details is that Te'o is claiming he thought the girl was real. At this point he is saying that he had nothing to do with the hoax.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 01:59 PM

5. I had never heard of this

I didn't even know about the young women who were (most likely) raped by players! I guess they've done a good job of spin control. Shades of Penn State. Makes me glad I rooted for 'Bama anyway.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 02:10 PM

6. I only know of it because I just read an article on Salon by Irin Carmon n/t

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 02:18 PM

7. What about Fighting Irish Football fans?

The Irish have lost eleven out of the past thirteen bowl games they have played since 1995, suggesting that they are consistently, egregiously over-ranked in the polls.

It's the same lesson the Bush family has yet to learn: it doesn't matter if you can game the system if you can't do the job. You wind up sucking when it counts.

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Response to sofa king (Reply #7)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 03:25 PM

10. The Bush Analogy Is Priceless

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 02:28 PM

8. Another ND bashing thread, what a surprise, not!

Let's face it when the dust clears, this scandal no way comes near what happened at Penn State, where the coaches and the school admin covered for a pedophile for years.

The only one really hurt in this scandal is Manti Te'o. ND got a little egg on its face from this but that will quickly disappear.
Te'o can redeem himself from his stupidity in this incident by playing well and doing works of charity without publicity. He should also learn how easily he could have been blackmailed. There are those who like to prey about successful people, especially those like Te'o, who are very nice but can also be naive.

As far as the Seeberg incident, she never wanted to bring criminal charges against the football player, and she never accused the player of rape, as some news reports have indicated. She wanted some sort of apology from the player for assault, but the player denied her account of the assault. Remember, she also admitted to drinking 3 beers at the scene of the assault, so her recollection was most likely hazy. Also her 2 statements per the DA were contradictory as well as were not consistent with other witness accounts. She also suffered bouts of depression prior to arriving at St. Mary's College. She was not an ND student. I attended St. Mary's my freshman year and they have lots of resources to help young women. Apparently Seeberg didn't use them. She killed herself as the investigation of her assault allegations was ongoing. She hurt her case by committing suicide. Apparently, the DA wanted to question her some more over her statements' inconsistances. I wouldn't be surprised if she was actually suffering from bipolar disease. I have a friend who has a daughter who suffers from it and twice almost committed suicide because of it.

As a feminist, I believe women should report sexual assaults quickly, but as an American, I believe an accused person is innocent until proven guilty. The Duke Lacrosse rape case hurt the male lacrosse players in the short run and hurt real rape victims in the long run.

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Response to Larkspur (Reply #8)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 04:58 PM

15. I don't care if you change the name to any school in the US,

I would post about this with the same reaction. Notre Dame isn't on a list for me to bash, but I don't think that they handled the case appropriately.

This is an interesting strategy. One negative word about ND here come the protectors of all things in South Bend screaming that ND is being bashed. They shouldn't be called out because they are Notre Dame, but they aren't exempt from all criticism because they are either.

If there wasn't a counterattack EVERY time a Notre Dame thread came up, it would be easier to believe it is a just argument. As it is, it seems like a knee-jerk reaction against any and all negative comments.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Reply #15)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 05:12 PM

17. Sorry, yours' is the knee-jerk reaction...look at your title..."given their history..."

You cite one case where I question whether they were covering it up...you are implying by saying they have a "history" that there are multiple instances and that there is a pattern.

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Response to joeybee12 (Reply #17)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 01:27 AM

20. That is the title of the article.

I didn't reword it. i took out 'Manti' so that it would fit. As far as history, there is a short one. AND one case is important especially if you are the person involved.

In addition, the reaction to that one case can have a dramatic effect on what happens in future cases. It is very hard for people who are sexually assaulted to come forward. To be treated with suspicion and even anger by just mentioning it has a chilling effect on future cases.

I am not saying that any accusation should be believed immediately. There should be a semblance of impartiality by those that can investigate. When those in charge drag their feet on fully checking BOTH sides, that can deter those who might want to come forward. The power resides in those who can and should investigate. When that power is perceived to be weighted on one side, those who have felt traumatized are much less likely to come forward.

While there are many who want impartial investigations, there are many who go full tilt to protect athletics. They are very invested in their teams and immediately and viciously attack any perceived threat. This isn't a trait that Notre Dame fans alone possess. Any athletic team has them.

Check social media after a team just loses a game. The vitriol spewed at some players on the teams people support is beyond disgusting and scary. Multiply that by a lot if you are on the other side at the beginning.

Notre Dame's athletic teams are big enough to withstand the negative publicity that initially comes with accusations especially if they move quickly to find out what happened and address it. There are going to be false claims but that comes with the territory. Those instances are very harmful to BOTH the university and to those who have valid problems. However, they are going to occur and any university or athletic entity better be ready to deal with them.

IMHO the best way to handle false claims would be to treat all claims with an unbiased view and check all of them immediately and thoroughly. If that happens, the results of those investigations will be believed much more widely by the general public. Dealing with the negative publicity that would result with a charge and conviction is difficult. It isn't half as bad as dealing with a perceived cover up. The publicity about Seeburg should prove that.

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Response to Larkspur (Reply #8)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 05:34 PM

18. Te'o promulgated the hoax, and ND is trying to cover up for him:

How else can you reconcile the following two stories?

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865564585/Manti-Teo-A-career-that-has-come-full-circle.html?pg=all


Editor's note: This piece from the South Bend Tribune takes an in-depth look at the collegiate football career and personal life of Notre Dame star linebacker and member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints Manti Te'o. It was originally published in the South Bend Tribune prior to last weekend's contest against Stanford. Republished with permission.

...Lennay Kekua was a Stanford student and Cardinal football fan when the two exchanged glances, handshakes and phone numbers that fateful weekend three seasons ago...

...The plan was for Kekua to spend extensive time with the whole Te’o family when upwards of 40 of them came to South Bend in mid-November for ND’s Senior Day date with Wake Forest.

“They started out as just friends,” Brian Te’o said. “Every once in a while, she would travel to Hawaii, and that happened to be the time Manti was home, so he would meet with her there. But within the last year, they became a couple...


The original article got yanked from the South Bend Tribune website, wonder why?

THEN they were a tragically separated, loving couple who had met on several occasions
NOW, according to Notre Dame:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/notre-dame-football-star-manti-teo-dead-girlfriend/story?id=18232374


...The university's athletic director, Jack Swarbrick, said it has been investigating the "cruel hoax" since Te'o approached officials in late December to say he believed he had been tricked.

Private investigators hired by the university subsequently monitored online chatter by the alleged perpetrators, Swarbrick said, adding that he was shocked by the "casual cruelty" it revealed.

"They enjoyed the joke," Swarbrick said, comparing the ruse to the popular film "Catfish," in which filmmakers revealed a person at the other end of an online relationship was not who they said they were.

"While we still don't know all of the dimensions of this ... there are certain things that I feel confident we do know," Swarbrick said. "The first is that this was a very elaborate, very sophisticated hoax, perpetrated for reasons we don't understand."...


Swarbick is either dumber than a sack of hammers, or thinks the people reading his statement are.
He's probably correct about 95% of the latter...

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 04:25 PM

11. Here is my theory, I think he is a victim.

Not in the general sense that one would think though. I think that he is a gay man in the starting QB position at a Catholic school and I think his cover story got out of hand. Just my own CT here, could probably have its own thread in the CT forum. I expect him to come out within the week. I could be wrong, just my gut feeling on this.

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Response to Separation (Reply #11)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 04:31 PM

12. He is a linebacker

and a Mormon. I doubt that he is gay.

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Response to rusty fender (Reply #12)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 04:46 PM

13. Sorry auto correct for the loss.

It's just weird, his father and one other person (male friend, can't recall his name) claim to have met this girlfriend when she doesn't exist. Unless there was some sort of charity scam going on. How many guys have lied about having a girlfriend, but she lives two states over. I haven't personally, but I've known a guy or two to exaggerate or outright lie about girls.

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Response to rusty fender (Reply #12)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 04:47 PM

14. What do those two things

have to do with being gay? You can be a linebacker, a Mormon, or both and be gay.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Reply #14)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 05:09 PM

16. You are right

but Mormons hate teh gays. If you are a gay man, why torture yourself by being a Mormon? Maybe as a cover.

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Response to rusty fender (Reply #16)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 01:30 AM

21. He is a Mormon because

he was born into that faith. It is not easy to just shrug off the beliefs you have been taught during your entire life.
Your remarks make more sense if he chose that faith as an adult. Mormonism was his world view from birth.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Reply #21)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 02:46 PM

22. I was born and raised Catholic

and I shrugged Catholicism off by age 15; by 19, I was an atheist. It wasn't very difficult to overcome my religious indoctrination(6 yrs of Catechism, even). Even if you are "born" into a religion, you have chosen it if you are still a member of it as an adult. Kids don't usually have a choice, adults do have that choice.

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