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Thu Jan 17, 2013, 12:13 PM

ok guys one more try..what can be effective on curbing gun violence

PBO's proposals are a step in the right direction but ultimately I think the answer is smart gun tech.

I TRULY believe this is where we need to be putting our efforts and money.

If every gun from this point forward was usable only by the owner who bought the gun it would go a LONG way toward curbing gun violence.

NO MORE stolen guns used
NO MORE straw purchases
NO MORE kids grabbing dads gun and causing mayham.

SMART GUN TECH is where we need to focus our resources.THIS is the future and if we embrace it we could stop a shit ton of gun violence

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Reply ok guys one more try..what can be effective on curbing gun violence (Original post)
backwoodsbob Jan 2013 OP
upaloopa Jan 2013 #1
backwoodsbob Jan 2013 #3
backwoodsbob Jan 2013 #5
upaloopa Jan 2013 #17
backwoodsbob Jan 2013 #20
upaloopa Jan 2013 #22
nick of time Jan 2013 #11
backwoodsbob Jan 2013 #16
nick of time Jan 2013 #18
backwoodsbob Jan 2013 #21
backscatter712 Jan 2013 #25
The Magistrate Jan 2013 #2
TheCowsCameHome Jan 2013 #15
Marrah_G Jan 2013 #4
backwoodsbob Jan 2013 #8
zipplewrath Jan 2013 #6
Marrah_G Jan 2013 #9
backwoodsbob Jan 2013 #10
zipplewrath Jan 2013 #24
backwoodsbob Jan 2013 #26
zipplewrath Jan 2013 #29
backwoodsbob Jan 2013 #32
Taverner Jan 2013 #7
backwoodsbob Jan 2013 #12
backwoodsbob Jan 2013 #13
Taverner Jan 2013 #14
backscatter712 Jan 2013 #28
Taverner Jan 2013 #31
backscatter712 Jan 2013 #33
Taverner Jan 2013 #35
backscatter712 Jan 2013 #40
backscatter712 Jan 2013 #42
aikoaiko Jan 2013 #19
backwoodsbob Jan 2013 #23
backscatter712 Jan 2013 #27
Puzzledtraveller Jan 2013 #30
nick of time Jan 2013 #36
demwing Jan 2013 #34
One_Life_To_Give Jan 2013 #37
Rex Jan 2013 #38
Johonny Jan 2013 #39
DevonRex Jan 2013 #41
TheKentuckian Jan 2013 #43
GreenStormCloud Jan 2013 #44

Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 12:22 PM

1. You can't retro fit older guns so what

do you do with them?

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 12:25 PM

3. in some cases you can

and are you saying if we cant 100% we shouldn't bother trying?

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 12:28 PM

5. so what stops us from offering

a new winchester 700 with smart tech in exchange for the old one?

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Response to backwoodsbob (Reply #5)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 12:46 PM

17. I want to keep my old single action .22?

I don't want a new gun

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #17)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 12:49 PM

20. keep it

you just wont be able to by a non smart gun version in the future

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Response to backwoodsbob (Reply #20)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 12:53 PM

22. That's ok I don't want more guns I just like to

plink with the .22 if I have the chance.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 12:34 PM

11. How about a voluntary one for one trade

 

coupled with a national buyback offer for those that don't want one of the new RFID guns?
It won't rid us of all the old ones, but it would rid us of millions of the older non RFID guns.
Just a thought thrown out there.

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Response to nick of time (Reply #11)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 12:45 PM

16. EXACTLY

if I'm offered a new winchester .300 swm with smart gun straight up for my non smart one I'll jump at it.

If it costs us 10,,20...50 billion...who cares.In the long run we save a shit ton of money and we save TONS of lives.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Reply #16)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 12:47 PM

18. And the money could come from the bloated DOD budget.

 

Win-win.

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Response to nick of time (Reply #18)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 12:51 PM

21. EXACTLY

we could take 2% of the DoD budget and do this in probably two years flat

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 01:24 PM

25. Set up a buyback program - entice people to part with the old ones. n/t

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 12:24 PM

2. Would That Not, Sir, Require Removing Existing Guns from the Pool?

The things do not age out like many mechanical appliances, at least not if some routine maintenance is invested.

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #2)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 12:45 PM

15. Or Better Yet, Throwing Them Into One?

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 12:27 PM

4. I think that there would have to be a way to retrofit existing weapons

Also cost would be a factor because alot of rural poor use hunting to supplement their diets.

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #4)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 12:30 PM

8. I have posted MANY times elsewhere

take a billion or so from the MIC to perfect the tech and then offer a straight up trade....what...we pay ten billion in a one time shot to stop what is hundreds of billions in costs?

It's a win win

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 12:29 PM

6. Chopping down the trees to see the forest

I'm afraid this really misses the larger problem. The solid truth is that just about anything "short" of a fairly agressive gun "ban" isn't going to change much in this country. Guns don't cause violent behavior, they enable it. Guns "reveal" our violent culture. We're going to have to change our culture away from a violent one. Once that is achieved, then we can actually talk about how to reduce the number and availability of guns. Once we stop believing that guns are the "answer" to anything, then we can talk about their "reduction" or elimination.

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Response to zipplewrath (Reply #6)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 12:31 PM

9. Banning guns is not going to happen

So we need to look at other means of regulation and safety.

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Response to zipplewrath (Reply #6)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 12:32 PM

10. you arent going to ban guns

the second isn't going to be overturned.

We have to look at the most effective solutions and I believe smart gun tech is it.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Reply #10)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 01:17 PM

24. 300 million

There are 300 million guns. Making new ones isn't going to reduce the violence.

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Response to zipplewrath (Reply #24)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 01:26 PM

26. so we should do nothing?

you're right..we should throw up our hands and give up

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Response to backwoodsbob (Reply #26)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 01:33 PM

29. No

We shouldn't be making MORE guns though.

We passed an assault weapons ban before. What'd we get?

It expired. The dems lost the House (some claim for other reasons). The NRA only got stronger. Gun sales soared. And study after study was unable to determine that it accomplished anything with respect to violence.

"Doing something" can result in unintended consequences.

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Response to zipplewrath (Reply #29)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 01:42 PM

32. no ...we should offer the new smart guns straight up

turn in your remington 30.06 for a new version with smart gun tech.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 12:29 PM

7. How would that work?

 

Would there be a fingerprint ID on the gun?

If so, could that be overridden?

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Response to Taverner (Reply #7)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 12:36 PM

12. yeah there are some prototypes already out there

when you buy the gun you get id'd to the gun and it will only fire for you.If you ever sell the gun you have to go to a ffl and have the gun *fingerprint* changed to the new owner.

There are several techs trying this right now but it is isnt perfected yet....that's why I said lets steal a few billion from the MIC to perfect it

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Response to Taverner (Reply #7)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 12:37 PM

13. could it be overriden?

I'm sure if someone tries hard enough anything can be beaten,but this would go a HUGE way towards solving this shit.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Reply #13)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 12:41 PM

14. True. IT would reduce numbers

 

Which is the best you can hope for


I have a friend who makes weapons as a hobby.

He made a fully auto Kalshnikov copy. Cost him $30.

Granted, it would be all black market, but they would be out there.

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Response to Taverner (Reply #7)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 01:30 PM

28. RFID would be how I'd do it.

The gun's owner has an RFID tag, which can be on a ring, or a card in his wallet, or even an implant under your skin about the size of a grain of rice.

The firearm would have an RFID reader that would attempt to query the tag before allowing an interlock mechanism to unlock, enabling the gun to fire. If the reader doesn't detect the tag (there's a range of about 6 feet, depending on the tag and the reader), the interlock engages, and the gun will not fire.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #28)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 01:41 PM

31. I like the fingerprint better...

 

RFID cards can be forged...and it would have to be implanted in your skin or you could just loan out your gun and RFID

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Response to Taverner (Reply #31)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 01:44 PM

33. RFID tags can be encrypted.

Which makes it very hard to clone such an RFID tag.

Even fingerprint scanners can be fooled.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #33)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 02:13 PM

35. And I can beat encryption

 

Granted it would take me a while - but all you need is something that can fsk (not fsck) a code (that is try multiple tries in succession.)

On the other hand, you can also falsify a fingerprint or retina. And it's a bit easier than fsking a code.

So I don't know...

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Response to Taverner (Reply #35)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 02:32 PM

40. The brute force approach... How much time have you got??

Granted, there are a few RFID tags on the market with flawed encryption (like Mifare) that can be cracked, and if you're talking about passively powered RFID, cryptography can't get too fancy with the power constraints, but the most recent generation of RFID tag crypto is pretty hard to crack.

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Response to Taverner (Reply #31)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 04:25 PM

42. Loaning out the tag...

A potential issue, but at the same time, people have been putting locks on things since the beginning of technology, and while locks get circumvented and keys get stolen or copied, most people aren't going to support removing the locks from their car so you could start the engine and drive off without the keys, or support removing the locks from their homes so they can enter without a key. Sure locks sometimes break, but people usually decide the benefits of locks are worth that risk.

What's hard about the concept of requiring a key to unlock a gun before you can do something dangerous with it, like shooting it. Granted, for self defense, you want the lock in your gun to be something that can be unlocked quickly in a emergency. And it should be reasonably hard to defeat the lock for an unauthorized shooter. That's why many cops use holsters that require a trick to release the pistol from the holster, so some violent douchebag can't easily steal his gun and use it against him.

Besides, you might want to let your friend shoot your gun, so there should be a legitimate way to do this.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 12:48 PM

19. When it works, I'll be interested.

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #19)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 12:59 PM

23. they are close

I have personally seen these guns work.It CAN be done

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Response to backwoodsbob (Reply #23)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 01:28 PM

27. There's no technical reason why this technology wouldn't work.

The gun-fetishists howl that if a technology doesn't work absolutely perfectly 100% of the time, it's completely unacceptable.

Except guns themselves don't work perfectly 100% of the time. They jam, springs wear out and cause them to not fire, cartridges don't feed right from the magazine, barrels get dirty, bearings get worn. On occasions, guns even explode. I've never seen a gun that absolutely fires every time you pull the trigger. Every firearm I've owned and seen can malfunction. But the gun-fetishists say that's OK - you just have to learn to take care of your gun.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 01:34 PM

30. We need to hold accountable irresponsible ownership!!

You don't properly lock up your guns or use child safety devices you need to be bare some responsibility. Civily, and criminaly if your gun(s) registered or not can be traced back to you and proven that you knowingly and willingly provided firearms for the comission of a crime.

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Response to Puzzledtraveller (Reply #30)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 02:17 PM

36. ^^^This^^^.

 

On top of what Pres. Obama has outlined.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 02:06 PM

34. Legalize pot, mandate its use

people will be too chill to shoot.

Joking, but serious. We are a fucking stressed out, heavily armed society. That's a damned lethal combo.

Less stress and anger = less violence of all kinds.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 02:18 PM

37. Weapon Shops of Isher

A novel by A. E. van Vogt

Interesting premise the standard gun would only fire in the hand of the rightful owner and only in self defense.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 02:20 PM

38. Sure biometrics would work, but what about the millions of guns

out there now in circulation? Do you do a 1-for-1 swap? How would it work? I agree, the owner(s) being the only one to use the weapon would make a world of difference imo.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 02:30 PM

39. Probably best start witht his is putting it on the free market

and seeing if gun owners will start buying them over guns without the technology. Once they are in the market place it would be easier over time to replace the entire market place.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 02:59 PM

41. And the militias and the gangs will all come in and trade in their untraceable guns

for these. Uh huh. And so will all those nutty militia wannabes who stand around their local gun stores and talk about the gubmint wantin' to confiscate all their guns. How they'll never register their weapons. Oh yeah, they'll all rush right in and get with the program.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 05:30 PM

43. The main drivers of all violence are the drug war, poverty/lack of opportunity, and women being

viewed as essentially sex toy livestock by too many.
Probably in that order but you can box that trifecta for certain.

End the drug war, fight poverty like it is existential war (and it is), and get serious about abuse and violence would plummet.

The rest of it is worrying about what flavor your cough drops are when you have lung cancer.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 05:57 PM

44. Legalize drugs. That will solve most gun violence.

Ban the MSM from publishing the name of mass killers. Rampage killings are done for media attention. Deny them that coverage and after a couple of events with the name of the guy blacked out and the others will get the idea.

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