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Tue Jan 15, 2013, 04:08 PM

I'm being honest here. What's the thing with

owning a AR15?
I don't mean it is accurate or well made and that kind of thing. Why do people want a military rifle knockoff? What's the thrill?
Me, I don't want one but it seems many do.
Is your life really going to change that much if you can't have one?
I won't buy you need it for hunting or home protection.
I heard a guy on the Ed show about a couple of hours ago go ape shit over the idea of a new assault weapons ban.
I hope this doesn't turn into an insult fest but I really want to know why people want one.
I am doing this like when I wanted to know who here never used a gun. It helps me form my opinions. That last one taught me that we don't have to be gun experts to have a valid opinion on what gun control measures we should have.

123 replies, 6004 views

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Arrow 123 replies Author Time Post
Reply I'm being honest here. What's the thing with (Original post)
upaloopa Jan 2013 OP
NYC_SKP Jan 2013 #1
ChisolmTrailDem Jan 2013 #2
upaloopa Jan 2013 #5
reverend_tim Jan 2013 #3
hack89 Jan 2013 #4
upaloopa Jan 2013 #6
oldhippydude Jan 2013 #7
ManiacJoe Jan 2013 #12
Recursion Jan 2013 #23
xoom Jan 2013 #51
kestrel91316 Jan 2013 #58
hack89 Jan 2013 #62
kestrel91316 Jan 2013 #63
hack89 Jan 2013 #65
kestrel91316 Jan 2013 #67
hack89 Jan 2013 #68
ceejdre82 Jan 2013 #71
Sissyk Jan 2013 #99
Daninmo Jan 2013 #100
bpositive Jan 2013 #8
99Forever Jan 2013 #9
bongbong Jan 2013 #14
Kalidurga Jan 2013 #60
JustAnotherGen Jan 2013 #94
MineralMan Jan 2013 #10
NCTraveler Jan 2013 #11
upaloopa Jan 2013 #20
kestrel91316 Jan 2013 #66
jmg257 Jan 2013 #77
nick of time Jan 2013 #13
upaloopa Jan 2013 #15
nick of time Jan 2013 #17
Motown_Johnny Jan 2013 #16
upaloopa Jan 2013 #18
Motown_Johnny Jan 2013 #19
Recursion Jan 2013 #22
Recursion Jan 2013 #21
oldhippie Jan 2013 #24
upaloopa Jan 2013 #31
oldhippie Jan 2013 #34
upaloopa Jan 2013 #39
Drew Richards Jan 2013 #81
Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2013 #90
oldhippie Jan 2013 #113
Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2013 #116
oldhippie Jan 2013 #118
Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2013 #119
oldhippie Jan 2013 #121
doc03 Jan 2013 #25
nick of time Jan 2013 #29
doc03 Jan 2013 #45
nick of time Jan 2013 #47
Mnpaul Jan 2013 #76
nick of time Jan 2013 #79
oneshooter Jan 2013 #84
Skittles Jan 2013 #26
X_Digger Jan 2013 #27
LAGC Jan 2013 #59
TeamPooka Jan 2013 #28
nick of time Jan 2013 #30
upaloopa Jan 2013 #32
nick of time Jan 2013 #35
hack89 Jan 2013 #69
nick of time Jan 2013 #72
tularetom Jan 2013 #33
thucythucy Jan 2013 #36
nick of time Jan 2013 #38
Lurks Often Jan 2013 #54
Mnpaul Jan 2013 #75
thucythucy Jan 2013 #98
hack89 Jan 2013 #89
thucythucy Jan 2013 #101
hack89 Jan 2013 #102
nick of time Jan 2013 #37
Lurks Often Jan 2013 #49
nick of time Jan 2013 #52
Daninmo Jan 2013 #103
JanMichael Jan 2013 #117
hunter Jan 2013 #40
dkf Jan 2013 #41
upaloopa Jan 2013 #43
dkf Jan 2013 #44
upaloopa Jan 2013 #46
dkf Jan 2013 #55
amandabeech Jan 2013 #80
Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2013 #91
krispos42 Jan 2013 #42
libodem Jan 2013 #48
Duckhunter935 Jan 2013 #50
libdem4life Jan 2013 #53
OneTenthofOnePercent Jan 2013 #57
libdem4life Jan 2013 #70
SQUEE Jan 2013 #97
libdem4life Jan 2013 #105
SQUEE Jan 2013 #106
libdem4life Jan 2013 #107
SQUEE Jan 2013 #108
libdem4life Jan 2013 #112
Lurks Often Jan 2013 #56
Taitertots Jan 2013 #61
brooklynite Jan 2013 #64
Honeycombe8 Jan 2013 #73
Odin2005 Jan 2013 #74
Duckhunter935 Jan 2013 #82
rightsideout Jan 2013 #78
oldhippie Jan 2013 #83
oneshooter Jan 2013 #85
Coyote_Tan Jan 2013 #86
upaloopa Jan 2013 #87
Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2013 #88
upaloopa Jan 2013 #92
Recursion Jan 2013 #93
upaloopa Jan 2013 #95
Recursion Jan 2013 #96
Lurks Often Jan 2013 #114
oldhippie Jan 2013 #120
Coyote_Tan Jan 2013 #104
okaawhatever Jan 2013 #109
baldguy Jan 2013 #110
KamaAina Jan 2013 #111
cleanhippie Jan 2013 #115
Buns_of_Fire Jan 2013 #122
bighart Jan 2013 #123

Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 04:11 PM

1. No clue here.

Really no idea.

I can't imagine ever being in a firefight that would warrant such a tool.

For personal protection at home my choice would be a shot gun, no doubt about it.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 04:13 PM

2. I don't have an answer for you, upaloopa. But since this is a gun thread,

I have a question: What happened to Biden's policy announcement that was supposed to happen today?

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Response to ChisolmTrailDem (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 04:21 PM

5. I don't know maybe later today

Or maybe he got scared off

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 04:13 PM

3. Zombie Apocalypse

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 04:21 PM

4. It's merely a rifle

it is accurate, light, very ergonomic, and easy to shoot.

It is perfect for hunting and target shooting (which is what I use it for).

Lets keep in mind that every rifle is basically a military rifle at heart. Millions were killed in WWI and WWII by bolt action .30 caliber rifles - like those "hunting rifles" I keep hearing are ok to own.

Like every generation before, a large group of men in the military become familiar and comfortable with a certain type of rifle. The AR-15 is a 50 year old design - is what two generations of men think of when they hear the word rifle.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 04:22 PM

6. Thanks for you input

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Response to hack89 (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 04:28 PM

7. thanks for the non snark

I was expecting someone to post the old canard "if you have to ask, you wouldn't understand"

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Response to hack89 (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 04:42 PM

12. Plus it is very modular.

Making it easy for lots of customization.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 05:08 PM

23. That's a big point; it's what you all paid me to train with

So if I bought a rifle, I wouldn't have much of a learning curve if I picked the AR-15.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 06:25 PM

51. Very good points. I agree.

 

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Response to hack89 (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 07:43 PM

58. My dad had a couple of hunting rifles and neither one of them were AR15s.

One was for deer and the other was for smaller game. They both had wooden stocks and scopes, if I recall, and no pistol grips or obvious magazines.

And that was in the 1970s and early 80s.

But then, he was definitely no gun nutter.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #58)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 08:07 PM

62. So? nt

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Response to hack89 (Reply #62)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 08:25 PM

63. So, smartass, I am responding to your statement that AR15s are the hunting rifle of choice and have

been for 50 years. And I am calling complete BS.

My grandfather and my uncles also did NOT have AR15s. They would consider them SISSY guns. Any hunter worth his salt can take a deer or elk down with one or at most 2 bullets. If you need an AR15 YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #63)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 08:27 PM

65. And there are many others that disagree

the difference, of course, being that they are not arrogant enough to feel their choice makes them morally superior to those that made a different choice.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #65)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 08:30 PM

67. The gun nutters are the arrogant ones in this picture.

That is, when they are not fretting about their tiny penises and how to compensate.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #67)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 08:35 PM

68. And of course "gun nutter" = someone who disagrees with me.

the fixation that gun grabbers have with my genitalia has always fascinated me in a weird kind of way. The only time I every talk about penises is when talking to grabbers.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #67)


Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #67)

Wed Jan 16, 2013, 11:33 AM

99. Was wondering how long it would take

in this thread for the tiny penis to come out.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #63)

Wed Jan 16, 2013, 11:34 AM

100. It's a freaking tool,

Not too disrespect your grandfathers or uncles, but what makes them spokesmen for all hunters? Sissy's? Why should their opinions be more valuable than the thousands and perhaps millions of true hunters who effectively and legally use AR15 rifles for game animals?

Since military rifles such as bolt action types, who's basic design goes back to the Mauser brothers from the 1890's, were brought up, a very famous US Marine sniper named Carlos Hathcock and many other snipers used bolt action scoped rifles that are commonly used by normal hunters in present times.

These were basically scoped hunting rifles issued to Marines and Army GI's to use, perhaps they would be called Assault Rifles too.

Good grief, should we outlaw all vehicles that can exceed the speed limited because thousands of people die, including innocent children from accidents were speeding is involved? Only police and military should have them. Think how many lives would be saved. Please stop blaming the tool, blame the actions on the wrong doer.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 04:32 PM

8. Don't own one

But would not mind owning one. I was in the army many years ago and enjoyed being at the firing range. The target practice was challenging. It really is a skill in becoming a expert sharpshooter. I have thought of purchasing one but the cost is too prohibitive and the reality is that I do not really have the time to spend at a firing range.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 04:33 PM

9. A very good question, upaloopa.

Surely, one of the Delicate Flowers can give you a well reasoned answer.

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #9)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 04:49 PM

14. Round up the usual suspects

 

"I need it for varmint control!"
"I need it to shoot at targets!"

And the AR-15 is EXACTLY what is called for. No other gun would suffice!

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Response to bongbong (Reply #14)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 07:51 PM

60. Oh I can translate that...

varmit control = black youths

targets = black youths

Because that is what a lot of the people who say they need protect think they need protection from. Never mind a great many of them live far away from black neighborhoods. Or they have delusions that they will take on the federal government if they try to take their guns. Not sure how that would work.

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Response to Kalidurga (Reply #60)

Wed Jan 16, 2013, 11:05 AM

94. +1

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 04:34 PM

10. I have no idea, either. I qualified with the M-16 as an expert marksman.

It seemed to be a good sort of military firearm, although I have to admit that I liked the M-14 better. I never saw any combat, so I never used it in the field. I ended up being a Russian linguist, instead.

In civilian life, I have no use for such a firearm. I have a .30-06 deer rifle that is based on WWI technology, and a shotgun that is patterned after one with a patent date of 1912. Both work very well as civilian firearms. I bagged a number of deer with the first and some ducks and other birds with the other. The shotgun does home security duty now, and I've stopped hunting deer, so the deer rifle just stays in storage and is cleaned and serviced annually. I also have a 1911 Colt .45 semi-auto handgun, or at least a copy of that venerable pistol. It's in storage, too, most of the time, although I do have a CCW permit. I just don't have any reason to carry, really.

The AR15 isn't a firearm that I'd want to own, since I can't think of any use for it. Others' opinions differ about that, but I don't see that they're using theirs for its design purpose, either. Different strokes.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 04:37 PM

11. I have heard it has something to do with penis size.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #11)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 05:00 PM

20. You're not helping here with that

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #11)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 08:27 PM

66. That's exactly what it's about. The MEN in my family never needed sissy guns like the AR15 to

get their buck or elk.

If you need an AR15 to hunt, YOU"RE DOING IT WRONG.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #66)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 10:06 PM

77. They all well-hung, huh? Luuuckyyyy....

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 04:44 PM

13. We have a real coyote problem here

 

and they've gotten several of our chickens and ducks, it's the perfect caliber, easy to carry, recoil is minimal,
good accuracy, comfortable to shoot, easy to keep on target. Those damn coyotes are wily as hell.

Although if it was banned tomorrow, which is hardly likely, it wouldn't break my heart, I'd just go to a Mini 14 in the traditional configuration.

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Response to nick of time (Reply #13)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 04:50 PM

15. Not to knock you, I lived in the boonies with many coyotes.

We had an old one who came to drink out of our horse trough. We did not have chickens or let our cats go outside because of the coyotes. I would never shoot one because they were there first and eating other animals is what they do, it's their nature.
If you lived with them that is shared the space not having chickens out were they could get them you wouldn't need to shoot them. I lived with dozens of them so I am not blowing smoke up your ass. On edit
We lived in open range country. We had 6 dogs 3 cats 4 horses . The dogs were in kennels at night when the coyotes came around to try and lure them away.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #15)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 04:56 PM

17. I believe you.

 

Our chickens are free range and our ducks come and go as they please. Our cats are pretty wise and know how to keep away from the coyotes.
I bought my AR-15 several years ago just for this purpose, like I said, it wouldn't matter to me if they banned them tomorrow, I'd just go by a Mini 14 in the same caliber.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 04:53 PM

16. some guy want the most powerful muscle car

others want the most powerful weapon

to me it is the same mindset

The problem is that this one can kill 20 first graders in a matter of moments

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Response to Motown_Johnny (Reply #16)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 04:57 PM

18. Thanks I'm hoping we don't go into that kind

of reply. You don't get honest replys that way. I am not a fan of them but I would like to know why other people are.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #18)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 04:59 PM

19. Maybe I phrased that poorly


I think it is an "one-ups-manship" mindset


I know some people who have the same mindset concerning golf clubs

I don't think there is anything bad about that frame of mind in and of itself but when it is fixated on something as dangerous as firearms it can create problems.

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Response to Motown_Johnny (Reply #16)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 05:05 PM

22. It's no faster-shooting than any other semi-automatic weapon

I don't think there's a particular inalienable right to own an AR-15, but I don't see the point of keeping people from buying it if they can still buy different-looking weapons that fire just as quickly.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 05:04 PM

21. Lightweight, ergonomic, easy to shoot, easy to repair, easy to modify

It's sort of the Linux of rifles. It's popular so the parts are cheap (yes, that's somewhat circular, but economics works that way sometimes).

It actually is popular with some small game hunters, and you can modify it to fire the more powerful rounds people use to hunt deer (I'd still question that, since it's still a carbine).

The shape and finish make it safer and easier to control than traditional wooden rifles, which is precisely why the military chose that shape and finish.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 05:08 PM

24. Really, honestly, if you have to ask the question, .......

.... you probably won't understand the answer. I know that's an old cliche, but probably true in your case, and for many others? Not trying to be snarky here (which is very difficult for me.)

Like asking how anyone would want a car that can go 150 mph? Or many other such questions regarding hobbies and interests.

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Response to oldhippie (Reply #24)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 05:26 PM

31. I'm not new to guns. I'm not new to hobbies.

Most likely I've used more powerful weapons to defend my life than the vast majority of people on this board.
I have every right to ask.
On edit it wasn't my choice to be in the situations I was in and I was issued the weapons I didn't choose them. I want to know why people choose to use them.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #31)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 05:43 PM

34. I certainly don't dispute your right to ask ......

... for how would we otherwise learn? But really, I think some people cannot understand why other people do things. Hell, I can't even understand why I do things.

I have way too many hobbies. I often ask myself why I have a Harley Softtail when I never ride it? I don't know, I just kinda like having it. I like the looks and design. I like cleaning and tinkering with it. I've only got 6000 miles on it in 9 years. It makes no sense, even to me.

Why do I have so many guns? I think I have 23 firearms. I'd have to gather them all together and count to be sure, but I think that's right. Rifles, pistols, revolvers, shotguns. I don't hunt. I don't do target practice. I used to shoot competitively in IDPA and 3-gun tactical matches, but not so much any more. I have a bunch of hunting rifles and shotguns. Haven't fired most of them in years. So why do I have them? Why don't I sell them? I don't know, I just kinda like having them around and don't see any reason not to keep them.

I currently have three AR platform rifles, and I am building two more. One will be an ATF approved short barrel rifle with a suppressor. Why? I don't know, I guess I like building things. I like the design. I like precision machinery that does it's thing in an efficient way. It's that damn engineer thing. I've never had a suppressor before and I want to see how they work. I'll build it and shoot it for awhile and then it probably goes to the back of the safe and next maybe I'll play with a precision single shot rifle in 300 Blackout caliber.

So why do I like ARs? I certainly don't NEED any, but I want to play with them for awhile. Probably makes no sense to you. They are just killing machines.

I can't understand why anyone would ever spend the money for a Corvette, or a Ferrari, or even a Cadillac. makes no sense to me, and never will.

Can you understand any of that? Honestly?

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Response to oldhippie (Reply #34)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 05:54 PM

39. Yes I can

I have a Kawasski 1500. I use to ride about every day. I like buying chrome for it. I don't ride it much any more but I can't just walk passed it without spending a couple of minutes just looking at it.
I have Ruger single action .22. I used to have a nickel plated Colt single action army .45. I couldn't even spin the cylinder or get finger prints on it without losing it's value. It was never fired. I just liked owning it.
I would like to own black powder pistols if I still lived on 20 acres in the mountains. I had a high tech bow to shoot arrows into a bale of hay. I had Arabian horses because I thought they were beautiful intelegent and fun to ride. I could go on.

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Response to oldhippie (Reply #34)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 10:34 PM

81. Please please please..post a pic if you do the 300 especially

if you do it in black walnut stock.

then again a solid stock might break a shoulder without a lot of supression

Pic anyway!!

Pic Pic Pic...gun porn gun porn more more...

Umm I kinda like guns because i like precision machines too...I don't hunt, i rarely target shoot, and when I do I only use 4 weapons.

sig 239 mm
marlin 30-30
winchester 1889 32-20
remington 1100 20 gage long choke.

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Response to oldhippie (Reply #34)

Wed Jan 16, 2013, 10:57 AM

90. The difference is, no guy buying a Corvette, Ferrari or Cadillac.....

.....ever thinks when buying that car, "I may have to use this to kill somebody one day."

Guns are deadly weapons, and are designed as such (unlike cars). IMHO, they should be dealt with in a serious and somber manner. I don't understand people who think they are fun, collectable toys.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #90)

Wed Jan 16, 2013, 09:47 PM

113. I never think that .....

... when buying my guns. Except for my carry pistols. Most of my guns were bought just to see if I could modify/tinker with them/build better reloaded ammo to make them more accurate.

I spent 40 years with the military working on rockets, missiles, guns, aircraft, bombs and mines. I don't often worry about "I may have to use this to kill somebody one day." I always dealt with them in a serious and somber manner.

I think you are right. You wouldn't understand.

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Response to oldhippie (Reply #113)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 08:04 AM

116. No, I'm sorry, if you are collecting guns as if they are baseball cards....

...you aren't taking them seriously.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #116)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 10:39 AM

118. I told you that you wouldn't understand.

There is no point to this conversation. Have a good day.

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Response to oldhippie (Reply #118)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 10:41 AM

119. When something is illogical, it is by its very nature hard to understand.

Why are you so surprised at that?

Have fun with your toys.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #119)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 10:53 AM

121. I will. Thanks!

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 05:13 PM

25. I don't get it, I have been around guns all my life and

they never appealed to me at all. I can't think using one for hunting anything, there
are better alternatives. I guess I am old school the guns that appeal to me are the ones with a nice piece of wood and beautiful bluing. I just don't care for guns with plastic for a stock and a matte finish on the metal. I shot both the M-14 and M-16 in the military and between the two I would rather have the M-14.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #25)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 05:21 PM

29. I loved the M-14.

 

Highly accurate, very reliable, very good knockdown power.
First weapon I was issued in the Army.

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Response to nick of time (Reply #29)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 06:11 PM

45. I was drafted in 1968 when they were transitioning from the M-14

to the M-16. We were issued the M-14 and I qualified expert with it, I never once had a malfunction with it. We had I think one day on the range with the M-16. The M-16 felt like a cheap toy to me, mine jammed a couple times while shooting target but it was accurate and easy to shoot. They let us shoot a magazine in three round bursts, I had a jam on that too. I was lucky I was sent to Germany so I never used either one in combat. Guys I have talked to that were in Vietnam complained that the least little bit of dirt would make the M-16 malfunction. They all praised the AK-47 as being a far better weapon and it is built like a tank and super reliable.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #45)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 06:18 PM

47. I was drafted in 67.

 

When we first were issued the M-16, I looked at it and thought, what a plastic piece of shit is this? I wanted my trusty
M-14 back, but in time, learned to appreciate the lightweight of the M-16, and you're right, my M-16 jammed a few times in Vietnam.
An AK-47 could be buried in mud and still function. Probably the best battle rifle ever produced.

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Response to nick of time (Reply #47)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 10:00 PM

76. I was discussing AR-15 jamming at work

The guy I worked with said he had no problem with his. I did some research. The army polled 1500 soldiers in '67 and found out that 80% had jamming problems. The problems are:

1.They used a new style gun powder which didn't work well
2. They claimed the gun was self cleaning so no cleaning kits were purchased.
3. The aluminum chamber pitted easily(WTF? aluminum?) later models were chrome plated aluminum.

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Response to Mnpaul (Reply #76)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 10:12 PM

79. Exactly correct.

 

Once they fixed these problems, the rifle worked quite well, although I still would have preferred my trusty M-14.

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Response to Mnpaul (Reply #76)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 11:04 PM

84. There were several problems with the early M16a1

From Wiki:In 1964 when the Army was informed that DuPont could not mass-produce the nitrocellulose-based powder to the specifications demanded by the M16, the Olin Mathieson Company provided a high-performance ball propellant of nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin. While the Olin WC 846 powder was capable of firing an M16 5.56 mm round at the desired 3,300 ft (1,000 m) per second, it had the unintended consequence of increasing the automatic rate of fire from 850 to 1000 rounds per minute. This would leave behind dirty residue, making the M16 more likely to have a stoppage. The problem was resolved by fitting the M16 with a buffer system, slowing the rate of fire back down to 850 rounds per minute and outfitting all newly produced M16s with an anti corrosive chrome-plated chamber.

The M16a1 was self cleaning, if the proper powder was used.

The aluminum barrel and the aluminum over carbon liner barrel were both dropped in 1960. The 4140 steel barrels and chambers were chrome lined in 1965.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 05:14 PM

26. they need them in case IMAGINARY HITLER shows up

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 05:17 PM

27. Thing is, all rifles are 'military knockoff' if you go back.

That's a bit of a red herring in the debate- "military style" as a designation is damned near meaningless.

Other than specialized target guns like those used in the olympics, all guns owe their existence to a military somewhere. Some are / were used directly by the military in the same configuration that is used by hunters and recreational shooters.

Lever-action guns and revolvers? Cavalry arms.

Bolt-action guns? Still in use today by military snipers.

Pump-action shotguns? Trench sweepers in WWI.

No, each generation's old farts bemoan the fact that "today"s young gun owners are using those "newfangled" guns instead of "traditional" guns- when the fact is, 50 years ago, it was the previous generation bemoaning the same thing with guns that are now "traditional" to their generation. 50 years ago it was the M1 Garand and derivatives that were causing a kerfuffle. 50 years before that it was the Springfield 1903. I'm sure that 50 years from now it will be those pesky kids using their phase charge rifles instead of the 'traditional' ar-15.

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Response to X_Digger (Reply #27)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 07:46 PM

59. +1

Well said.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 05:18 PM

28. Why? "small penis." nt

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 05:24 PM

30. Don't you love it?

 

You ask for honest answers without the insult fest and a few people just can't resist themselves.
I think you asked a very valid question and so far, most of the answers have been honest and insult free.

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Response to nick of time (Reply #30)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 05:34 PM

32. Yep.

I would favor an assault weapons ban but I don't know what to do about the ones already in the publics hands and I can understand some motivation to owning them. I can't square all that with the killings being done by those guns.
The best of both worlds would be to not let people who would kill others have them but that seems very difficult. I wish both gun owners and gun control people could work together on that. The extremes on both sides get in the way I think.
On edit I have been insulting too so I am no angel in this debate.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #32)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 05:44 PM

35. I'm kinda where you are.

 

I would favor grandfathering those in with a process to register them.
I was against registering at first but I've changed my mind in the last day or so.
There's got to be a middle ground somewhere.

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Response to nick of time (Reply #30)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 08:38 PM

69. And look which side is dishing out the insults. nt

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Response to hack89 (Reply #69)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 08:43 PM

72. Yup.

 

It's on stark display right now.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 05:36 PM

33. I don't think a lot of people would freak out seeing one of these



This will do everything the AR-15 does. It just doesn't look as scary. I bought one of these when we used to have sheep because we had a real problem with coyotes in those days.

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Response to tularetom (Reply #33)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 05:44 PM

36. So honestly, you think the Connecticut shooter

could have killed twenty children and six adults in such a short period of time, using this rifle?

I'm not being snarky, I really want to know.

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Response to thucythucy (Reply #36)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 05:48 PM

38. Yes.

 

It operates in the same exact manner, it's a mag. fed semi auto, just doesn't look as scary.

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Response to thucythucy (Reply #36)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 06:30 PM

54. It could have been done with any number of guns

including those that will never get banned, such as a 5 shot pump shotgun (pre 1900 technology) or six shot revolver (also pre 1900 technology). I know dozens, if not hundreds of shooters, that while they would never do such a abhorrent thing, have the skill set to have killed just as many as Lanza did. There are probably millions of people in the country with a similar skill set.

I'll defer to the final police report when it comes out, but it appears that Lanza had 11-14 minutes (CNN reported 20 minutes) from the time he fired the first shot into the glass until he fired the final shot into his head when saw the police.

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Response to thucythucy (Reply #36)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 09:52 PM

75. Google Mini 14

and check out the pics . The stock on the mini can be changed to a military style in short order with few tools. My friend had one with a folding stock making the gun less than 3 ft long. He was able to carry it under his wool full length coat without anyone detecting it. It is actually more dangerous due to this fact. It is more accurate due to design and less prone to jamming.

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Response to Mnpaul (Reply #75)

Wed Jan 16, 2013, 11:22 AM

98. This is frightening.

Another indication that the problem is now way out of control.

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Response to thucythucy (Reply #36)

Wed Jan 16, 2013, 10:52 AM

89. He could have done it with handguns - remember Va Tech? nt

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Response to hack89 (Reply #89)

Wed Jan 16, 2013, 11:35 AM

101. Yeah, I remember.

And I come away from this thread way even more concerned than I was before about the easy availability of this lethal technology.

I have a neighbor (not immediate, down the street) who has what looks to me to be a Glock or some such hand gun. I know because he's shown it to me. The man is elderly, alcoholic, rather nasty at times--and evidently possessing weaponry with which he could easily take out a half dozen or more people, pretty much on a whim. I'm assuming he has been, up to this point, law abiding, "responsible" in his own terms. But a rather angry guy, who is becoming more angry and more, shall we say "deluded", as the years go by. For all I know, he could be coming down with Alzheimer's, or some other serious condition that is progressively impeding his thinking.

Do I report him? Why? He's law abiding, hasn't threatened anyone. Who do I report him to? And what do I say? I think he MIGHT at some point snap? Or do I wait until he does, and I hear the pop pop pop of gunfire coming from down the block?

Repeat that situation a million times over, and I think it spells real trouble.

As I said to you in another thread (just now, in fact), it shouldn't be this easy to kill people.

Anyway, I don't think I'll be able to convince you, and my reading of these last threads has left me, as I say, more concerned than ever, so I doubt you'll be able to convince me.

Hopefully there are people who will be able to come up with a meaningful solution to all this.

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Response to thucythucy (Reply #101)

Wed Jan 16, 2013, 11:40 AM

102. Just remember that gun violence has been steadily falling for 30 years

we have cut murder and manslaughter deaths nearly in half.

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Response to tularetom (Reply #33)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 05:46 PM

37. I've thought about selling my AR-15 and buying on of those.

 

I can make boo coo bucks right now selling my AR-15 and pick up a Mini 14 for a sweet deal.
Functions exactly as the AR-15 but doesn't look as scary.

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Response to nick of time (Reply #37)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 06:23 PM

49. Probably not

Mini-14's are pretty much gone from the shelves as well and I just watched two of them go for over $1100 at an auction (and yes the auctioneer follows all applicable Federal & State laws for those of you inclined to scream loophole)

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Response to Lurks Often (Reply #49)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 06:27 PM

52. Oh, ok.

 

Never mind, I'll just hang onto my AR for now.
I should've figured that out for myself.

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Response to tularetom (Reply #33)

Wed Jan 16, 2013, 11:52 AM

103. The mini 14's

Are notorious for being inaccurate. The AR15 types have a much higher reputation for accuracy.

And sadly, a woman with a baseball bat could have killed all those little 6 year old children. Should baseball bats be illegal too?

It doesn't take a warrior to hurt children. Just a sick, twisted, person.

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Response to Daninmo (Reply #103)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 08:29 AM

117. just stop

Yes, he COULD have killed 20 kids with a louiseville slugger, but only if they stood in place with no adults around, OK?

Please? Cut it out. The purpose of the rifle he used was to kill whatever it was aimed at as quickly as possible.

I am so tired of the stupid analogies: knives, cars...and now sporting equipment.

Please stop.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 05:55 PM

40. My k-ray blaster is normally set to "stun."

But it's nice knowing I could vaporize an entire city if I had to.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 05:59 PM

41. People want what they want for any myriad of reasons.

 

Do we really have to justify everything to others?

I don't understand why people mountain climb or snowboard or cheat on their spouses or borrow several hundred thousand for college. But people will do as they see fit.

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Response to dkf (Reply #41)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 06:04 PM

43. No, but this thing had been used to kill children

which gives people the idea to do away with them. If they understood the motivation to own them they would be a little more informed like I am being more informed here. It hasn't changed my mind any but I understand some things I hadn't before.
On edit:
We may be helping the debate some here, that's my better angel talking

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #43)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 06:09 PM

44. All types of guns kill children.

 

I dare say more kids are killed with regular guns than this AR-15.

Honestly if the statistics said that AR-15s are the primary driver of minor deaths maybe you would have a point. But I don't see it.

More kids are killed in gang shoot outs in Chicago I will bet. Yet you don't see any effort to contain gang activity and the gun control effort looks positively ineffectual.

Show me something that you really think will make a difference because it all looks like window dressing to me.

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Response to dkf (Reply #44)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 06:14 PM

46. Suppose the NRA and gun owners went on TV

and said "we are apposed to gang killing and mass murder and want to work with groups like the Brady campaign to reduce gun violence. Instead of Obama wants to take our guns or you will lose in 2016 if you dare put gun control laws on the books.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #46)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 06:37 PM

55. I never understand why we try to make more laws to fix the problem when we don't enforce old laws.

 

Maybe they would work if we tried.

I could care less what the NRA does, but it bothers me that the government is so danged incompetent at enforcement. Lawmakers are such illusionists, that they make us think they are getting things done by passing laws, but really it's all for show if there is no enforcement.


Here are some interesting stats...

Weapons: Of the 142 guns possessed by the killers, more than three quarters were obtained legally. The arsenal included dozens of assault weapons and semiautomatic handguns. (See charts below.) Just as Jeffrey Weise used a .40-caliber Glock to slaughter students in Red Lake, Minnesota, in 2005, so too did James Holmes, along with an AR-15 assault rifle, when blasting away at his victims in a darkened movie theater. In Newtown, Connecticut, Adam Lanza wielded a .223 Bushmaster semiautomatic assault rifle as he massacred 20 school children and six adults.

The killers: Half of the cases involved school or workplace shootings (12 and 19, respectively); the other 31 cases took place in locations including shopping malls, restaurants, and religious and government buildings. Forty four of the killers were white males. Only one of them was a woman. (See Goleta, Calif., in 2006.) The average age of the killers was 35, though the youngest among them was a mere 11 years old. (See Jonesboro, Ark., in 1998.) A majority were mentally ill—and many displayed signs of it before setting out to kill. Explore the map for further details—we do not consider it to be all-inclusive, but based on the criteria we used we believe that we've produced the most comprehensive rundown available on this particular type of violence. (Mass shootings represent only a sliver of America's overall gun violence.) For a timeline listing all the cases on the map, including photos of the killers, jump to page 2. For the stories of the 151 shooting rampage victims of 2012, click here, and for all of MoJo's year-long investigation into gun laws and mass shootings, click here.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map

Most mass shootings involved semi-autos: 68
Then assault weapons: 35
Revolvers:20
Shotguns:19

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Response to dkf (Reply #44)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 10:27 PM

80. Before this past weekend, I read that 24 minors had been shot in Chicago

in 2013.

And it isn't just gangbangers. The gangbangers often start things, but a lot of innocent people--men, women, children, seniors--get hurt and killed.

It's horrible and Mayor Emmanuel doesn't seem to know what to do about it.

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Response to dkf (Reply #41)

Wed Jan 16, 2013, 11:01 AM

91. When you are dealing with a deadly weapon, then yes, there should be some sort of justification.

And I do believe there are times when a private citizen is justified in having some sort of firearm, i.e., if one is a hunter or if one is a frequent victim of home invasions.

But there is a line that has to be drawn.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 06:01 PM

42. Several reasons.

1) It feels and hefts like, and the controls operate like, the military's M-16 and M-4 rifles, an arm that millions of veterans have carried and used and are comfortable with.

2) It is ergonomic. The gun is comfortable to shoot, the weight is moderate, and the pistol grip helps maintain a secure and comfortable grip.

3) It is reliable. A good thing for any gun.

4) It uses commonly-available ammunition and magazines.

5) It is accurate. Also a good thing for any gun.

6) There are a buttload of aftermarket parts and accessories for them, readily available at reasonable prices.

7) It is easily to swap the upper part of the gun for a new barrel/bolt assembly, so you can shoot different cartridges at about half the cost of a new AR-15.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 06:22 PM

48. First Person Shooter

Video games make urban warfare seem, normal. Running down, hallways, into rooms, around blind corners, and spraying everything in front of you with machine gun bullets. Normal.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 06:24 PM

50. That is the weapon I am trained on

It is no different than any other semi-automatic rifle. Fires no faster or slower. I went with one as it is a modular platform that all I have to do is change the upper receiver and I can have different rifles from .223 to a 7.62 to a 22 caliber to cheaply plink cans. It is also very light and comfortable to shoot due to the gas and buffer system. Most all modern rifles came from the military. Do not use 30 round magazines though. I stick with the 20 round standard issue magazine that was designed for the weapon.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 06:29 PM

53. Perhaps for those of us who are blissfully unaware, and kicking and screaming not to need to know,

perhaps just start with describing the size of the hole it creates in the human body...the splattering effect...of the organs, at the head, the torso or the limbs...how many one "magazine" can slaughter before loading, starting with 6 year olds. Followed by some instructive photos...oh that's right...they would be just to horrible for the ignorant and delicate public to see...the result of the same and their social policies and apologetics on guns...that guns don't kill people. Well, neither do cars. But we sure as shooting, excuse the pun, have remedies for them.

If someone blew my son to smithereens, in his school classroom, you bet I'd want the world to see it. Privacy??? F### it...no. He's dead and some ignorant colonial happy hunting gun laws and SOB thusly empowered, did it. This is no F### LA Law or NCIS or Terminator or Die Hard...it's a real, formerly live happy and healthy human being. And some SOB decided to get his jollies. And our country stands behind his/her rights to do so?

For shame.

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #53)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 07:33 PM

57. I can see your thinking is rooted in a logical thought process rather than irrational emotion.

 

...Not.

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Response to OneTenthofOnePercent (Reply #57)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 08:42 PM

70. Right. We certainly would not want to be emotional...gasp...about little events like gun mutilation

of those still learning to read.

That's part of the problem...the sensitive and delicate American public has been able to send millions of humans...ours and others...to their untimely death...without any visible references and completely lack normal, human responsibility. We "protect" them from the gore of what they pay for. But now, it's become "Us" and not "Them".

Ask the Medical Examiner of the Sandy Hook kids ... he couldn't even look at all of them. Irrational emotion, indeed. Please give me a logical thought process for that...I'm fresh out.

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #53)

Wed Jan 16, 2013, 11:16 AM

97. your imagining of the obscene, and dehumanizing of 6 year olds to nothing more

than a political anecdote, well it says far more of you than me, there is plenty of gun porn out there for you. Hollywood has created a vivid and varied library to choose from, that is just as connected to the reality of gunshot wounds as the porn industry is to actual lovemaking. peruse enjoy and then after a cigarette, maybe we can talk in realities.

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Response to SQUEE (Reply #97)

Wed Jan 16, 2013, 04:29 PM

105. Sorry, not so. No porn of any kind kills kids...very bad analogy. Red Herring for today.

Killing is dehumanizing...forever. Drones are dehumanizing. Bombs are dehumanizing. Killing foreign chidren is dehumanizing. Dirty pictures? Not so much.

Americans are squeamish and so over-protective about "real violence"...but have no problem paying for its continuance or lacking the responsibility for it as long as they don't have to look at it. Traffic classes for offenders used to show graphic and grisly deaths. Smoking classes used to show the graphic gore of ruined lungs, disfigured bodies from cancer. High school Driver's Ed used to take the kids to the morgue.

What does Gabby Giffords and her staff and the Sandy Hook community have in common other than death or injury by gun, funerals, inconsolable grief, immense losses in family, jobs, lives forever changed and $175 billion dollar tab? Taxpayers picked up the tab and the industry responsible for cause of the deaths gets an uh-oh pass and has become wealthier due to the fear that their industry caused in the first place. (Privatized profits ... socialized losses.) Eisenhower didn't feel the need to warn us about the porn industry.

And one other commonality...they were forced to look at the carnage, unabridged. How many others will be forced to look at it, up front and personal, before we reach a Tipping Point and place the responsibility and the cost firmly where it belongs.

And please save the "over-emotional" hyperbole. Guns are manufactured to kill...legally, illegally, accidentally, intentionally. Porn, not so much.

PS ... kid's deaths are not a "political anecdote"

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #105)

Wed Jan 16, 2013, 04:33 PM

106. RE .PS Your waving thier bodies about as a bloody shirt for an agenda you already hold dear

Most definately says you think so.

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Response to SQUEE (Reply #106)

Wed Jan 16, 2013, 05:24 PM

107. What I hold dear are lives. What I do not hold dear is funding $175 billion for Rights

when they become Wrongs...often very wrong...and the lack of responsibility to clean it up. I'll be satisfied with Product Liability Insurance.


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Response to libdem4life (Reply #107)

Wed Jan 16, 2013, 07:11 PM

108. Prepare to be shocked

I completely agree. I think insurance and tiered levels of education and security discounts for proper storage would be a great plan. I have no problem with this or registration, I have NFA items so I am not at all adverse to being "on a list" and have always said, before you drop a dime on a rifle, invest at least the cost of a good AR on secure storage, and another few hundred on how to safely and responsibly utilize your weapon. Both side use the car analogy so I will too, I can't legally drive without a license or insurance, the same should be said of my firearms. Also if I take driver safety courses and keep my car safe and in a garage, then I get discounts.

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Response to SQUEE (Reply #108)

Wed Jan 16, 2013, 08:11 PM

112. It's always a wonderful thing when the push and pull of differing opinions make a new reality

and maintain individual respect. I used to be a "banner". Thanks for the info.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 06:55 PM

56. Like others have said

it is a reliable, accurate, easy to shoot gun. Ammo, until recently, was relatively cheap and you can modify the gun, usually on your own, with aftermarket parts to suit your purpose: hunting of small game, target shooting and competition. As it is not an especially powerful cartridge*, hunting is usually restricted to small game and pest removal such a prairie dogs.

The horrifying tragedy in Sandy Hook could be have been accomplished with any number of guns, including some that are pre-1900 technology such as a pump shotgun or double action revolver.


The .223/5.56 is the least powerful primary rifle cartridge the US Military has issued:
45-70 Government, in service from 1873-1897 fires a 405gr (7000 grains to the pound) bullet at 1400 feet per second (FPS) which gives a muzzle energy of 1750 foot pounds.
30-40 Krag, in service from 1892-1903, fires a 200gr bullet at 1975 FPS, which gives a muzzle energy of 1730 foot pounds
30-03, in service from 1903-1906, fires a 220 gr bullet at 2300 FPS, which gives a muzzle energy of 2585 foot pounds.
30-06, in service from 1906-1970, fires a 150 gr bullet at 2700 FPS, which gives a muzzle energy of 2482 foot pounds.
308/7.62x51, in service from 1954-present, fires a 150 gr bullet at 2800 FPS, which gives a muzzle energy of 2585 foot pounds
.223/5.56, in service from 1963-present, fires a 62 gr bullet at 3070 FPS, which gives a muzzle energy of 1300 foot pounds.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 07:56 PM

61. Accuracy, reliability, ergonomics...

spare parts availability, availability of aftermarket parts, relatively inexpensive (Well it used to be), great for home defense, great for small to middle game hunting, light weight, low recoil...

You don't get it, but it is the most popular rifle for defense, sport shooting, and hunting for a reason.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 08:26 PM

64. Why do some people drive sports cars? Or wear $1,000 watches?

It gives them an internal "buzz"

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 08:45 PM

73. Why do people want an iPhone when they're overpriced & don't work as well as other phones?

It's just a thing people feel they want. They like the look of it, the feel of it, etc., I guess.

Then there are the militia guys. They go into the woods on weekends and practice war with teh government or any problem. They're sometimes called survivalists.

Yeah, they'll live w/o them. But it's not a reason to take something away because you don't understand why someone wants that thing. In this case, however, it will lessen mass murders, so there's a good reason to ban those.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 08:50 PM

74. I dunno. It's not even a good deer-hunting gun.

It's actually weaker than many hunting rifles, but hunters don't use 30-round cartilages. The people who use AR-15s for hunting are idiots who don't get that they are likely to lead to a deer suffering a long, cruel death rather than a clean kill.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #74)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 10:43 PM

82. deer is the only thing hunted?

and the AR-15 platform comes in a variety if calibers for your information. AR-10 might be better for larger animals.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 10:11 PM

78. Since there is all this talk about them, I want one now.

And I've never owned a gun although I've been to the range several times.

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Response to rightsideout (Reply #78)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 11:00 PM

83. That's what gun porn will do to you .....

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 11:21 PM

85. I own several, in fact I build them.

As an instructor I find that they are very easy to teach with. I use them as a introduction to center fire rifles. The cartridge/rifle produces very little recoil and is quite easy for beginning shooters to handle.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 11:39 PM

86. Active military here...

 

I want something as close as possible to my deployment weapon so I can practice and improve my skill set.

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Response to Coyote_Tan (Reply #86)

Wed Jan 16, 2013, 10:41 AM

87. So why can't you go to the military range and use a military weapon ?

You mean to tell me you have to use a personal weapon to improve you skill set even though are active military?
Seems kinda weird to me.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #87)

Wed Jan 16, 2013, 10:43 AM

88. Exactly.

Don't military bases have gun ranges and arsenals?

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #88)

Wed Jan 16, 2013, 11:03 AM

92. They did when I was in the army.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #87)

Wed Jan 16, 2013, 11:03 AM

93. Because they don't let you do that

You actually spend very little time in the military using your service weapon.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #93)

Wed Jan 16, 2013, 11:08 AM

95. Don't you have to qualify annually like PT?

I would think you would have a weapon if you needed it for your MOS .
If you were not in a combat MOS I can see why you wouldn't be issued a weapon.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #95)

Wed Jan 16, 2013, 11:13 AM

96. In the Marines, at least

You're issued a rifle, period ("every Marine is a rifleman", blah blah blah), and sometimes a pistol depending on your MOS and billet (I had one, I think because I was on the M240G team). I was in combat arms and combat service support units at different times. You spend a lot of time carrying your weapon around, but you don't actually fire it much aside from the week you get on the range every year.

I knew quite a few people who wanted to improve their rifle range scores for their promotion boards and went to civilian ranges to do that. Personally, I was trying my damndest not to rise above E-4, so I never did (didn't work; they did eventually force sergeant on me).

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #95)

Wed Jan 16, 2013, 10:37 PM

114. I was in the National Guard

from 1992-1993 and qualified with rifle and pistol once a year in year in a very formalized setting. The unit and the officers in charge were more concerned with making sure a box was checked off in the training schedule then actually teaching soldiers how to use their weapons in combat, which was common in the National Guard. Basic and Advanced Training wasn't much better. That unit was deployed to Desert Storm in 1991, Baghdad in 2003 and is currently in Afghanistan.

I sure in the hell hope the Army pays more attention to training soldiers on how to use their weapons then when I was in.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #95)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 10:48 AM

120. In the 12 years I was active duty (1970-82) ......

I fired my issue weapon for "familiarization" maybe four times. Maybe a mag or two. It was just to meet some training requirement and wasn't taken seriously. Even now (I worked at Fort Hood until two years ago) nobody on a military base is armed except MPs and Federal Police. Arms and ammo are always locked in an arms room.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #87)

Wed Jan 16, 2013, 11:54 AM

104. If you were a professional pianist..

 

Would it be enough for you to practice every 3-6 months?

That weapon is the same to me as an instrument is to a musician. I want to be as good as humanly possible, especially because my life depends on how well I use it.

Military gives me a chance every now and then but to be really good it takes more effort .

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #87)

Wed Jan 16, 2013, 07:26 PM

109. A couple of reasons, the army typically didn't buy a whole lot of ammo

The guys always had to buy their own ammo to become better skilled. At Ft. Bragg, they had the
range they used for qualifying, but I don't think they had a walk-in and practice range.

They wanted higher scores.

They wanted to be the best in their unit. Target shooting is a quantifiable skill. Having the best scores was a black and white measure.

I also think it was a security thing, maybe false, but as my ex told me, if things get sh@t hot, and I have to use this thing, i want to make sure I don't miss. I might have to live with alot of things in life, but one of them won't be a fellow soldier dying because I failed to take out a target when I had the opportunity.

Ofcourse, most of these guys aren't the problem we hear about. Having been on the receiving end of a weapon makes them quite aware of potential dangers.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Wed Jan 16, 2013, 07:41 PM

110. Viagra doesn't work for some gun nuts.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Wed Jan 16, 2013, 07:45 PM

111. "Consider your man card reissued."



That's one of the weapons used in Newtown.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Wed Jan 16, 2013, 10:41 PM

115. Zombies.

When they rise from the dead, you will wish you had one.

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #115)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 11:26 AM

122. I've shot a few zombies with an AR-15. It doesn't work.

There's a couple of them living down the street from me (they're pretty pleasant, actually, except for that brain-eating thing) and they let me practice on them occasionally in return for a couple of cans of Bud Light.

They've indicated to me (as well as they could, since they're not much at conversation) that bullets don't faze them all that much. But they REALLY don't like flamethrowers. Or Gilbert Gottfried. It's a little hard to tell.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 11:28 AM

123. Not a gun owner so I can't speak to the exact subject of the OP

but I own several guitars, both electric and acoustic, and a few different amplifiers and have had people ask me the same kind of questions:
"Why do you want a Les Paul when you already have a Strat?" Why do you want a Taylor when you already have an Ovation and a Martin?"
My answers are always along the lines of different tone, different playing feel, more suitable for this or that style of music etc.
I suspect it is the same with guns or any other thing a person chooses to collect. This model looks different, functions different, feels different when being used etc.

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