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Mon Jan 14, 2013, 10:52 PM

 

Worst Countries For Firearms Related Deaths

Few major nations have the right to bear arms configured in their Constitution. Even fewer (as in we are the only one) have gun control legislation as a hot button political issue. The U.S. is the most violent core economy in terms of gun related deaths. It is also the leader in gun violence at school campuses. Yet, the U.S. does not lead the world in firearms related deaths. Countries were gangs and drugs are a problem top the list, even where there is strict gun control.

For example, back in 2003, Brazil passed laws making it illegal to own unregistered guns, to carry guns outside one’s home or business, to sell guns without a background check, or to buy a gun before the age of 25. Penalties were also increased. A year later, a large voluntary national disarmament program began and continues to this day, yielding hundreds of thousands of guns each year. In 2004, firearm homicide, which had been increasing steadily for a decade, fell 9 percent. But that has since changed in Brazil. Cities like São Paulo have seen recent outbursts in violence. Unlike the U.S., gun violence is mostly gang related and the innocent victims are usually those caught in the crossfire on the city streets outside their homes rather than in the class room.

According to the Organization of American States and the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, these are the most violent nations on the planet outside of a war zone.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2012/12/17/worst-countries-for-firearms-related-deaths/

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Arrow 14 replies Author Time Post
Reply Worst Countries For Firearms Related Deaths (Original post)
dkf Jan 2013 OP
TheMadMonk Jan 2013 #1
dkf Jan 2013 #2
TheMadMonk Jan 2013 #3
dkf Jan 2013 #4
TheMadMonk Jan 2013 #5
dkf Jan 2013 #6
trumad Jan 2013 #7
guardian Jan 2013 #9
dkf Jan 2013 #12
TheMadMonk Jan 2013 #13
malaise Jan 2013 #11
guardian Jan 2013 #8
ieoeja Jan 2013 #14
malaise Jan 2013 #10

Response to dkf (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 01:06 AM

1. And all but 3 of those ahead of the US feed the US drug...

 

...habit, have been and still are destabalised by direct, deliberate interference by the United States in their governance.

So in fact, the US by proxie, occupies 9 of the top 12 slots for gun violence.

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Response to TheMadMonk (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 04:10 AM

2. I wouldn't mind seeing a very serious crackdown on gangs though.

 

It worked for Aurora, Illinois.

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Response to dkf (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 09:33 AM

3. Did it? Or did it just move the problem elsewhere?

 

That's how crackdowns worked out here. Whilst the cops were out and about the streets of Paramatta were safe enough to walk naked at 2 in the morning.

In neighbouring suburbs, it was damned near open warfare in the streets as displaced gangs moved in on territory already "owned" by other gangs.

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Response to TheMadMonk (Reply #3)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 11:10 AM

4. They put them in Federal prison.

 

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Response to dkf (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 11:37 AM

5. Define "them"? Street hoods and foot soldiers? Or...

 

...the teflon coated bastards who called the shots?

A lot of the first kind of "them" have been (and are still being) banged up for life on the flimsiest of pretexts. Or even get themselves labled as a "them" and deserving of lifetime incarceration on the basis of said pretexts.

The way to deal with gang violence is to address the underlying poverty issues, not to make it someone else's problem, whether that someone else is the next town over, or the federal penal system.

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Response to TheMadMonk (Reply #5)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 11:48 AM

6. They targeted the top 170 gang leaders for federal prosecution.

 

Moreover our poverty programs don't seem to work. All they do is provide a pretty dismal subsistence existence at best. For someone inclined to take what they want regardless of the law, I am doubtful that will suffice.

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Response to dkf (Reply #6)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 11:50 AM

7. "poverty programs don't seem to work"

Do you have a solution?

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Response to trumad (Reply #7)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 11:58 AM

9. unfortunately

 

a 'solution' would have to be fairly brutal. You can't get rid of gangs using conventional law enforcement techniques. Watch the documentary Hunting Pablo Escobar or read the book Killing Pablo: The Hunt for the World's Greatest Outlaw to see a solution to ending gangs.

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Response to trumad (Reply #7)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 12:09 PM

12. Creating Economic activity is the only solution.

 

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Response to dkf (Reply #6)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 12:10 PM

13. Because subsistence living is not a poverty program.

 

It's a way of making people desperate enough to do anything, beit swallowing shit as a service industry drone, or pimping out their sisters and children. Since most people are reasonably law abiding even in the face of extreme adversity, the latter (provided they stick to their ghettos) are an acceptable price to pay for what is essentially slave labour from the rest.


170 gang leaders? That number says block bosses to me, not criminal masterminds. Strikes me that the head chapters of the Angels, Comancheros, Banditos etc didn't take much of a hit except to their local operations. Strikes me, the gangs' suppliers' suffered mild inconveniences at worst until they found different outlets, almost certainly to the same markets.

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Response to TheMadMonk (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 12:06 PM

11. There was no coke in Jamaica before

the late 1970s when the island was deliberately destabilized. Then it was M16s and coke followed by AK47s

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Response to dkf (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 11:53 AM

8. get rid of gangs

 

and you'll eliminate the majority of all gun crime.

http://www.nij.gov/topics/crime/gun-violence/welcome.htm

Gun-Related Homicide and Gangs
Percent of homicides involving guns by circumstance, 1976 to 2005
Source: Bureau of Justice Statistics

Gun-related homicide is most prevalent among gangs and during the commission of felony crimes. In 1976, the percentage of homicides caused by firearms during arguments was about the same as from gang involvement (about 70 percent), but by 1993, nearly all gang-related homicides involved guns (97 percent), whereas the percentage of gun homicides related to arguments remained relatively constant. The percentage of gang-related homicides caused by guns fell slightly to 94 percent in 2004, but the percentage of homicides caused by firearms during the commission of a felony rose from about 60 percent to 77 percent from 1976 to 2005.

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Response to guardian (Reply #8)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 12:30 PM

14. I think you are misreading that.

Last edited Tue Jan 15, 2013, 05:28 PM - Edit history (1)

"nearly all gang-related homicides involved guns (97 percent)"
nearly all homicides involving guns are gang-related

Those two statements do not equate.

Your graph shows that over 90% of the time when a gang related killing occurs, they use a gun. When someone gets killed during a crime, 80% of the time it involves a gun. When someone gets killed during an argument or for any other reason, 60% of the time the killing is performed using a gun.

So if there was only one gang related killing all of last year, and that killing was done using a gun, then your graph would show 100% for gang related killings, yet less than 1% of killings would be gang related.

In fact, the actual percentage of murders related to gang activity in 2011 was 1.2%. According to FBI statistics only 150 of the 12,664 murders in 2011 were known to have been gang related.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-11

Arguments are the #1 most common known cause for murder.

About one-third of murders are for unknown causes. But I know Chicago cops who will cite "gang related" when they have no known cause. So I would expect the percentage of unknown murders actually being gang related would be less, not higher.


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Response to dkf (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 12:03 PM

10. Jamaica at #2

Where do the guns come from? Straight from the US or in the guns for drugs swaps in Haiti. Haiti gets theirs from the US as well - most are illegal.

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