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Mon Jan 14, 2013, 05:25 PM

 

An explanation, from a gun nut.




Hi everyone. I'm a gun nut.

I can imagine at this point, there's an immediate sensation of anger and hostility that follows a statement like that, especially here, and up to that point, that's really the only information that I've given. Over the last few weeks, this issue has gained a massive amount of attention, and we've had just enough time to react on emotion, and not really enough time to acquire a better understanding.

But I'm also a Democrat. And a liberal.

So, in this regard, I'm also "not so bad". And there "may be hope" for me, yet. Do me a favor and for the next few minutes, please throw away preconceived notions. They are barricades to achieving a well-rounded and intimate understanding of one another.

It's no secret that any time something happens, even if it's something rather trivial, it's generally followed with media frenzy. Sensationalism has always been a deeply engrained part of our media history. I'm always very reluctant when I see it. I try to strip it away to gain an understanding of what is actually being conveyed to me. Either way, I'm skeptical at best. Distrusting at worst. And that's a good policy to have.

Throw it away. An emotional response usually results in damage. Do not trust what you see on TV. It's bad policy.

I've taken a neutral tone to both sides of the argument, that is to say, until I did some research on the issue. Interestingly enough, it wasn't the issue itself that pushed me over to one side of the line. It was the quest for a better understanding. I chose to look at the Federal Bureau of Investigation, instead of the Washington Post. I looked at the Department of Justice rather than CNN.

What I found was very disturbing. The sensationalism has grown to the point of outright fiction. According to the FBI, you are almost twice as likely to die by a hammer, than you are a rifle. Of any type. Hunting rifles, assault rifles, sniper rifles - you name it. I've also heard the number 30,000 as the amount of annual deaths that are tied to guns. The FBI has a wildly different number. It comes out to roughly 9,000. Of those, at least 1,000 are justified homicides by police and civilians defending their homes.

Roughly 350 - 500 die from rifles, annually. And according to the US Department of Justice, rifles account for 3% of gun-related homicides (justified and unjustified). Hand guns account for the overwhelming bulk of gun-related murders.

The reaction from the gun owning community is understandable when considering that there are 310,000,000 people living in the United States. To put a percentage on this, it would use the mean, and calculate it:

425 / 300,000,000 = 0.00000137096 of Americans. Please keep in mind how many rifles are floating around the US as well. Remember, we're not thinking emotionally right now. We left this at the door to help us pursue logic and reason. I happen to find this number to be excellent. To me, it appears that our current gun control policies are working miracles right now. There are over 2,000 of them.

So, if there really isn't a "gun problem" to speak of, then what would be the motivation behind pushing such an agenda? And assuming that you don't agree with that number (even though the source is solid), then consider something else: even though the hand gun is the real culprit behind America's shootings, why are they advocating restrictions against rifles?

For the gun owning community, the answer is obvious. The mere action of going after the wrong gun, at the same time that gun control is working better than could be hoped for, is perplexing. Why would they do this?

We are living in a post 9/11 world. Since the towers fell, a series of legislation (even from Bush) has brought us unwarranted wiretapping, indefinite detention, peaceful protesting being declared terrorist activity, TSA violating us at airports, drone surveillance, and so on. These things have happened and are happening. But consider this for a few minutes:

We have federal agents going around putting fake explosives into peoples' hands and nearly forcing them to go commit an "act of terrorism" for an arrest, because they can't find ONE (1) single terrorist in this whole fucking country!


It's bullshit, folks. Made up. Fictitious. Not real. Disingenuous.

And now you should better understand all of the things that the gun owning community has been saying. Now you may turn your emotions back on.

Thank you.

125 replies, 6105 views

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Arrow 125 replies Author Time Post
Reply An explanation, from a gun nut. (Original post)
CommoFreq Jan 2013 OP
Robb Jan 2013 #1
msanthrope Jan 2013 #2
maxsolomon Jan 2013 #3
RomneyLies Jan 2013 #4
sadbear Jan 2013 #5
baldguy Jan 2013 #90
sadbear Jan 2013 #94
Arctic Dave Jan 2013 #6
Warren DeMontague Jan 2013 #7
thucythucy Jan 2013 #105
Warren DeMontague Jan 2013 #112
Maine-ah Jan 2013 #123
DanTex Jan 2013 #8
DanielW Jan 2013 #38
DanTex Jan 2013 #50
DanielW Jan 2013 #58
DanTex Jan 2013 #68
DanielW Jan 2013 #73
theKed Jan 2013 #76
DanTex Jan 2013 #77
DanielW Jan 2013 #79
jeff47 Jan 2013 #102
ceejdre82 Jan 2013 #109
uponit7771 Jan 2013 #121
ThoughtCriminal Jan 2013 #93
TheMadMonk Jan 2013 #107
uponit7771 Jan 2013 #120
Hell Hath No Fury Jan 2013 #9
oldhippie Jan 2013 #10
redstatebluegirl Jan 2013 #11
DanielW Jan 2013 #43
redstatebluegirl Jan 2013 #49
billh58 Jan 2013 #60
redstatebluegirl Jan 2013 #92
billh58 Jan 2013 #96
redstatebluegirl Jan 2013 #99
loose wheel Jan 2013 #52
billh58 Jan 2013 #62
mokawanis Jan 2013 #80
EX500rider Jan 2013 #88
oldhippie Jan 2013 #97
jmg257 Jan 2013 #12
LineLineReply ?
DanielW Jan 2013 #44
jmg257 Jan 2013 #57
DanielW Jan 2013 #59
jmg257 Jan 2013 #66
DanielW Jan 2013 #75
jmg257 Jan 2013 #78
DanielW Jan 2013 #89
Maeve Jan 2013 #95
jmg257 Jan 2013 #103
jmg257 Jan 2013 #101
ceejdre82 Jan 2013 #110
jmg257 Jan 2013 #111
Warren DeMontague Jan 2013 #83
Spider Jerusalem Jan 2013 #13
apocalypsehow Jan 2013 #14
Rex Jan 2013 #69
tularetom Jan 2013 #15
Scuba Jan 2013 #16
Xployer00 Jan 2013 #17
sadbear Jan 2013 #19
HangOnKids Jan 2013 #20
Hell Hath No Fury Jan 2013 #21
Maeve Jan 2013 #24
HangOnKids Jan 2013 #26
billh58 Jan 2013 #67
HangOnKids Jan 2013 #70
JoePhilly Jan 2013 #18
DanielW Jan 2013 #47
JoePhilly Jan 2013 #51
Hell Hath No Fury Jan 2013 #55
billh58 Jan 2013 #86
bucky balls Jan 2013 #98
thucythucy Jan 2013 #106
one_voice Jan 2013 #22
patriots Jan 2013 #25
Hell Hath No Fury Jan 2013 #28
HangOnKids Jan 2013 #34
JaneyVee Jan 2013 #32
bucky balls Jan 2013 #100
JaneyVee Jan 2013 #104
ceejdre82 Jan 2013 #113
MynameisBlarney Jan 2013 #36
Paladin Jan 2013 #23
NNN0LHI Jan 2013 #27
Savannahmann Jan 2013 #29
99Forever Jan 2013 #41
Savannahmann Jan 2013 #63
ellisonz Jan 2013 #30
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #31
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #33
ellisonz Jan 2013 #35
ceejdre82 Jan 2013 #114
ellisonz Jan 2013 #115
ceejdre82 Jan 2013 #116
GoneOffShore Jan 2013 #37
Lint Head Jan 2013 #39
Skidmore Jan 2013 #40
HangOnKids Jan 2013 #45
iwillalwayswonderwhy Jan 2013 #42
zappaman Jan 2013 #46
Maeve Jan 2013 #48
ellisonz Jan 2013 #54
Paladin Jan 2013 #81
Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #53
tallahasseedem Jan 2013 #56
rightsideout Jan 2013 #61
HangOnKids Jan 2013 #65
billh58 Jan 2013 #72
derby378 Jan 2013 #118
Rex Jan 2013 #64
HangOnKids Jan 2013 #74
randome Jan 2013 #71
proud2BlibKansan Jan 2013 #82
KingFlorez Jan 2013 #84
maggiesfarmer Jan 2013 #85
Aristus Jan 2013 #87
baldguy Jan 2013 #91
ceejdre82 Jan 2013 #108
Tab Jan 2013 #117
DainBramaged Jan 2013 #119
Chorophyll Jan 2013 #122
Erose999 Jan 2013 #124
Erose999 Jan 2013 #125

Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 05:26 PM

1. Well, you're half right.

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 05:28 PM

2. Your concern is noted. Please feel free to share more of your concerns, and enjoy your stay. nt

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 05:29 PM

3. you're new, so maybe you don't know to use this:

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 05:30 PM

4. At least you admitted it

 

Should make how things proceed simple.

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 05:31 PM

5. Hammers?

This post is a box of hammers.

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Response to sadbear (Reply #5)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 07:58 PM

90. As in "dumber than"

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Response to baldguy (Reply #90)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 08:17 PM

94. Yep...

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 05:33 PM

6. Desperation is a stinky cologne.

 

LOL

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 05:34 PM

7. "Dont trust the media"- can you elaborate? With specifics?

20 Children were shot in an elementary school with an AR-15 recently. "The Media" has reported extensively on this story and it is the primary reason gun control is at the forefront of our political conversation right now.

So perhaps you can elaborate specifically on what the media has reported, which you feel should "not be trusted"

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #7)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 10:19 PM

105. I stopped reading here:

"It's no secret that any time something happens, even if it's something rather trivial, it's generally followed with media frenzy."

The idea that the phrase "something rather trivial" could be used to refer in any way shape or form to the slaughter of twenty children is simply mind boggling.

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Response to thucythucy (Reply #105)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 01:50 AM

112. That jumped out at me, too.

However, the OP has been sent back to whence the gun trolls come from, so at least there's that.

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Response to thucythucy (Reply #105)

Wed Jan 16, 2013, 07:12 AM

123. that caught my eye too...

this was not "trivial".

And while I'm here I'd like to point out that there is no way that we could ever get an accurate count on how many guns are in the U.S. - another flaw in the OP. In the state of Maine, one is not required to get a license, permit or registration to own a hand gun or long gun. There's three in my house...I'm sure their are thousands of others in Maine alone that are not accounted for.

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 05:34 PM

8. You were doing OK until you started with the false/cherry picked statistics.

There are 30,000 gun deaths every year in this country. It breaks down to about 10,000 homicides and 20,000 suicides.

For perspective, the total number of Americans killed in 9-11, Iraq, and Afghanistan combined is about 10,000. The number of Americans killed in all of Vietnam is about 60,000. So we lose an entire Vietnam war worth of people every

As a contrast, the rate of gun deaths in other industrialized nations is about 1/10th what we have here (or less). How you could possibly think that we don't have a gun problem is beyond me.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #8)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:09 PM

38. well,

 

you also cherrypicked the data.

while those other countires do have less gun deaths, they also have a much higher violent crime rate than we do here in america.

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Response to DanielW (Reply #38)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:22 PM

50. Actually, violent crime rates in other wealthy nations are similar to those in the US.

The difference is that, since a much greater portion of crimes in the US involve guns, and guns are more lethal than other weapons, the US homicide rate is far higher.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #50)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:37 PM

58. here's the facts, the last one is crucial to this discussion..

 

The UK has approximately125 percent more rape victims per 100,000 people each year than the United States does.

The UK has approximately133 percent more assault victims per 100,000 people each year than the United States does.

The violent crime rate in the United States actually fell from757.7 per 100,000 in 1992 to386.3 per 100,000 in 2011. During that same time period, the murder rate fell from9.3 per 100,000 to4.7 per 100,000. This was during an era when gun laws in the United States generally became much less aggressive.

Approximately200,000 women in the United States use guns to protect themselves against sexual crime every single year.

Overall, guns in the United States are used80 times more often to prevent crime than they are to take lives.

Down in Australia, gun murders increased by about19 percent and armed robberies increased by about69 percent after a gun ban was instituted.

The UK has thefourth highest burglary rate in the EU.

The UK has thesecond highest overall crime rate in the EU.

Despite the very strict ban on guns in the UK, the truth is that the UK is a far more violent society than the United States is. In one recent year, there were2,034 violent crimes per 100,000 people in the UK. In the United States, there were only466 violent crimes per 100,000 people during that same year.

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Response to DanielW (Reply #58)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:45 PM

68. Wow, a bunch of fabricated statistics! The NRA has trained you well.

Even if we were to accept these numbers, what they illustrate is that even though the US is, as a whole, less violent than the UK, there is still far more homicide, because of the guns.

Of course, the UK is not the only developed country other than the US, if you look at violent crime rates in other developed nation, you find that the US is somewhere in the middle. It's only homicide where we are way out of the normal range. The other thing is that comparing "violent crime" rates internationally is not always an apples-to-apples comparison, because different countries define it differently.

Approximately 200,000 women in the United States use guns to protect themselves against sexual crime every single year.

This is false. The total number of defensive gun uses in the US is about 100,000, as per the National Crime Victimization Survey.

Down in Australia, gun murders increased by about 19 percent and armed robberies increased by about 69 percent after a gun ban was instituted.


This is false. Homicide rates dropped since the gun ban in Australia.

I have no idea where you are getting these numbers...

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Response to DanTex (Reply #68)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:51 PM

73. welp

 

http://gunowners.org/fs0404.htm

it is from gun owners of america, i didnt check the references on there so i'm not sure how accurate and trustworthy the statistic actually are.

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Response to DanielW (Reply #73)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:55 PM

76. Truly an impartial, well-balanced source.

....yup.

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Response to DanielW (Reply #73)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:56 PM

77. LOL. Gun Owners of America! The place to turn when the NRA just isn't batshit crazy enough!

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Response to DanTex (Reply #77)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:58 PM

79. yea i know

 

that might be true, but are the statistics valid?

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Response to DanielW (Reply #79)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 08:38 PM

102. Their statistics are as valid as my height and weight measurements

I'm 23 feet tall and weigh 8 pounds.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #77)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 10:55 PM

109. this is like Limbaugh vs O'Reilly for sources....

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Response to DanielW (Reply #73)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 10:20 PM

121. You're kidding right?

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Response to DanielW (Reply #58)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 08:15 PM

93. Incorrect and outdated data

For example the claimed increase in gun murders and armed robberies in Australia

You can look at the true numbers for yourself:

http://www.aic.gov.au/documents/0/B/6/%7B0B619F44-B18B-47B4-9B59-F87BA643CBAA%7Dfacts11.pdf

Homicides 364 in 1997 down to 260 in 2010
Armed Robbery 21,305 in 1997 down to 14,582 in 2010

There were increases from 1996 to 1997, but that was while the law was being implemented.

"The proportion of homicide victims killed by offenders using firearms in 200910
represented a decrease of 18 percentage points from the peak of 31 percent in
199596 (the year in which the Port Arthur massacre occurred with the death of 35
people, which subsequently led to the introduction of stringent firearms legislation)"

----
You are trusting a bad source with predictable results.

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Response to DanielW (Reply #58)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 10:30 PM

107. Now compare the UK to those parts of the US with similar...

 

...population densities.

Let's stack up London statistics against Chicago's.

Council housing estates against The Bronx or Skid Row.

The UK's problem is 63 million people crammed into an area smaller than Oregon state.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #8)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 10:19 PM

120. +1!

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 05:35 PM

9. Late to the party...

Your buds have been here with the very same talking points.

Psssst...

We're over them.



Alerted.

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 05:38 PM

10. WTF??? Not thinking emotionally? Logic and reason?

"Remember, we're not thinking emotionally right now. We left this at the door to help us pursue logic and reason."

DUDE! THIS IS FUCKING DU! Where the fuck do you think you are?

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 05:39 PM

11. I still question the need for automatic weapons in our country

I do not see this addressed in your discussion above. I don't think everyone wants to take ALL of the guns, I know I do not as seen in my previous posts. I do however wonder why the ban was lifted on automatic weapons, weak though it was in 2004.

I do not think that DU is totally anti gun, but I think most of us are looking for a reasonable discussion on the topic without NRA talking points. I have to admit I do not trust their current leadership nor some of it's members even though I have family who are and have been long time members.

Also, what about the gun show loopholes in terms of background checks?

If i missed it being addressed I apologize, if not could you do so....

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Response to redstatebluegirl (Reply #11)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:16 PM

43. what?

 

automatic weapons have been banned since the 1930's and that ban has never been lifted.

connecticut has the exact same assault weapons ban that the federal government sunsetted in 2004, it literally changes nothing about the actual gun except you cant have a collapsable stock or a threaded barrel, neither of which the federal government classifies as a 'gun part' anyways..

the only thing the federal government classifies as a firearm is the lower receiver (the trigger), everything else isnt technically even a firearm by atf definition.

so with that said, it would be inaccurate to say there was ever even a ban on semi automatic assault firearms at all.

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Response to DanielW (Reply #43)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:22 PM

49. I try to discuss with gun folks

I guess that is not possible. We had guns in our home growing up, but not for anything but hunting and killing dangers to our livestock. My Dad kept them locked and would never have owned any of the guns we usually argue about here these days. I am not talking rifles, I am talking about weapons with large mags.

Contrary to your insinuation I am not an idiot...

I would address the use of anyways, but that would be rude.

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Response to DanielW (Reply #43)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:40 PM

60. We have a winner!

You have won an all expenses paid trip to the Gungeon, and a lifetime membership in the NRA. Your recitation of the NRA talking points was flawless, and now you can also put another notch on your big old gun for putting we silly old Democrats in our place.

Thanks for playing...

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Response to billh58 (Reply #60)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 08:14 PM

92. I assume this is not directed at me...

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Response to redstatebluegirl (Reply #92)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 08:18 PM

96. Not in the least.

If you will follow the connecting response lines, I replied our resident NRA apologist -- DanielW. I totally agree with everything you have posted...

On edit: It appears that DanielW is no longer with us, and has been PPRed for being a gun troll. Ain't it cool?...

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Response to billh58 (Reply #96)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 08:25 PM

99. Thanks still new and learning...

Yes I like how you guys take care of trolls.

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Response to redstatebluegirl (Reply #11)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:24 PM

52. Those require a FFL

 

To posess, purchase, or transfer a fully automatic weapon an individual must pass a federal and state background check and be liscensed with a federal firearms liscense that cost about $500 each. The crime rate among FFL holders is very very small.

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Response to loose wheel (Reply #52)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:41 PM

62. And another winner!

Did you bring your friends from whatever right-wing site you came from, or are you just browsing?

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Response to billh58 (Reply #62)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 07:07 PM

80. lol right

There's always one or two, trolling some like-minded right-wingers right behind them.

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Response to redstatebluegirl (Reply #11)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 07:54 PM

88. "Also, what about the gun show loopholes in terms of background checks?"

Actually there is no "gun show loophole" You can not rent a table at a gun show to sell guns with out a Fed firearms license and back ground checks. There is a "private sales" loophole where a person can go to a gun show and sell their gun in the parking lot to some one else but they can do that anywhere. Some times they do enter the show and walk around inside looking for a buyer but they pay to get in and do not have a table for sales.

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #88)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 08:23 PM

97. Not so. Many states, including Texas, allow one to rent a table .....

... at a gunshow for private sales. No background check required as they are not FFL. At our last gunshow last weekend in Belton, TX several local LEOs rented a table to private sell some of their firearms. Nobody cared. I also noted that the gun show here was not as crazy as those being described in the national media. I suspect everyone in Texas already has several ARs.

Granted, some states do prohibit private sales without NICs checks at gunshows. I do not know which ones.

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 05:41 PM

12. Speaking of bullshit...

Are you actually saying 26 people were NOT just gunned down in December in Connectitcut?

So, if there really isn't a "gun problem" to speak of,

pssttt...there is!

On Edit:
The mere action of going after the wrong gun,

Who says no one wants to do anything about handguns?

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Response to jmg257 (Reply #12)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:17 PM

44. ?

 

what do you suggest doing about handguns?

i think the OP is referring to the push for an assault weapons ban, there isnt much talk about banning handguns, atleast not that ive heard anyway...

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Response to DanielW (Reply #44)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:33 PM

57. I would suggest not distinguishing between rifles and handguns, or even semis for that matter.

Capacity, & detachable mags would need to be addressed on just about all repeating arms.

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Response to jmg257 (Reply #57)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:39 PM

59. ok

 

but what about the millions of high capacity mags already out there?

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Response to DanielW (Reply #59)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:45 PM

66. Well - 2 choices depending...

1) only repeating arms w/fixed capacity are legal, others aren't

2a) possession of mags higher then a certain capacity - say 10, is a felony,
2b) possesion of more then 2 mags is a felony.
Both with mandatory jail time of say, 5 years per offense.
Both with mandatory jail time of say 20 years, if used in commission of a crime.

Take your pick.

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Response to jmg257 (Reply #66)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:54 PM

75. what?

 

you would send someone to jail for 5 years just for having something?

that sounds way too extreme.

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Response to DanielW (Reply #75)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:57 PM

78. I would if I didn't want him to have it, and was damn serious about it.

And everyone else needed to be pretty damn sure he didn't have it either.

(gets rid alot of the whole 'useless law' argument, and the self-defense 'arms race' - helps people who perceive they 'need' certain guns feel less afraid of being outgunned)

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Response to jmg257 (Reply #78)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 07:56 PM

89. thats not true

 

most gun crimes are committed with stolen guns, these guns would still be out there, and criminals would still be carrying and using guns because they dont care about the law.

it would be like in the uk post gun ban, violent crime explodes

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Response to DanielW (Reply #89)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 08:18 PM

95. Take your talking points and go--oh, I see you HAVE been shown out! Buh-bye! eom

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Response to Maeve (Reply #95)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 08:38 PM

103. Thanks for the heads up! nt

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Response to DanielW (Reply #89)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 08:36 PM

101. Where does those criminals get their stolen guns from?

From lawful owners at some point. Less guns for them to steal, and less lethal too.

Those criminals who will break the law, just like now, will have to be prepared to the time - a mandaory 20years on top of the original charge should go quite a ways to clearing the streets.

Then of course you also concentrate on gangs, repeat offenders, the drug issue etc.

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Response to jmg257 (Reply #101)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 11:06 PM

110. don't you love the argument...

about criminals not obeying the laws no matter what....I think we should just apply this to everything...why have stop signs, people just run them?

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Response to ceejdre82 (Reply #110)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 11:13 PM

111. Yep - 'if guns are outlawed, only good guys will keep their guns...no wait..

it takes good guys to stop bad guns...shit...

oh yeah!!! Mental Illness...SQUIRREL!!!

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Response to DanielW (Reply #75)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 07:35 PM

83. Um, have you not been paying attention for the past 30 years?

We send Cancer Grannies to prison for longer than that just for being caught smoking a joint.

Our prisons are FULL of people doing 10, 20, 30 year mandatory minimum sentences for "just having something"

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 05:43 PM

13. Illogical and irrational non sequitur

because guess what? Per the same data, you're more than ten times more likely to be murdered with a handgun than a hammer. And more than twice as likely to be murdered with a gun of any type than any other method or weapon. And the number under "firearms: type not stated" is 1834. All of those 1834 could be rifles; none of them could. It's a safe bet that the real answer is in between, and that there are very probably not in fact more murders committed with blunt instruments than rifles.

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 05:47 PM

14. Uh-huh. Enjoy your, *ahem*, stay.

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Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #14)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:46 PM

69. +1

All that work writing to us to let us know the OP is okay with gun deaths. Guess that is what a gunnut is at heart.

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 05:47 PM

15. Are you getting paid to post this?

I only ask because whoever paid you, is getting ripped off.

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 05:48 PM

16. Reporting the shooting deaths of 20 schoolchildren is "sensationalism"?

Yes, let's discount it, cause, you know, sensationalism.

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)


Response to Xployer00 (Reply #17)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 05:54 PM

19. Wow, this response hasn't been hidden yet?

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Response to sadbear (Reply #19)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 05:55 PM

20. The Clown Car Is Coming To Pick This Bozo Up

He'll be joining the OP I'm sure.

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Response to sadbear (Reply #19)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 05:56 PM

21. I alerted --

but DU juries are very odd ducks, these days. :/

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Response to Hell Hath No Fury (Reply #21)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 05:58 PM

24. 6-0 Hide and now it's gone eom

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Response to Maeve (Reply #24)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:02 PM

26. Member Since 2008 With Today As His Coming Out Party

There was a recently banned poster who claimed to have 20 zombie/socks...oops must be a few short of that now!

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Response to HangOnKids (Reply #26)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:45 PM

67. It appears that there

have been more trolls PPRed on this thread alone, than all of the other threads I've participated in today. I hope MIRT isn't finished yet, because there are a few left and still posting NRA/Gungeon talking points.

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Response to billh58 (Reply #67)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:47 PM

70. Indeed!

Admin is stepping it up to clean house of the long time trollies as well.

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 05:51 PM

18. Ask the parents of those dead children if there is a gun problem.

Those dead kids are not "bullshit, made up, fictitious, not real, or disingenuous".

You "gun owning community" has failed at keeping its members in check. In other words, your gun totting children are not taking care of their toys.

The fact that you can find other deadly events which occur more frequently does not mean those kids in Sandy Hook are any less dead.

You now have a choice. You can either help civilized society decide which weapons are reasonable for civilian use, or you can be cut from the discussion.

Your choice.

Now, you can do whatever the hell you want with your emotions ... just don't make a video tape about how you'll start killing people if you don't like the path the rest of us select.

Or ... skip that ... PLEASE, PLEASE make an angry video of what you plan to do.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #18)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:20 PM

47. just a thought

 

on civilized society banning guns.

after britain did it their society turned less civilized, violent crimes there have skyrocketed and its a much more dangerous society than it ever was

thoughts?

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Response to DanielW (Reply #47)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:23 PM

51. So your claim is that there are more killings there?

Provide a source.

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Response to DanielW (Reply #47)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:27 PM

55. More NRA talking points --

:yawn:

Come on, you're really going to have to do better...

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Response to Hell Hath No Fury (Reply #55)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 07:49 PM

86. But NRA statistics prove without

a doubt that statistically speaking the statistics speak for themselves, and prove that statistics and plastic forks kill more people than guns.

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Response to DanielW (Reply #47)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 08:24 PM

98. It's very dangerous to post facts in this place, I have noticed.

 

Zealots don't much care for them.

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Response to bucky balls (Reply #98)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 10:28 PM

106. What's dangerous is being six years old

and having to face a "Bushmaster" in the hands of someone who wants to kill you.

Being called out for posting anonymous BS on a website--not so much.

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 05:56 PM

22. And your feelings on..

regular citizens having high capacity magazine clips? What rationale could you possibly have for this?

Also what--self admitted gun nut & Democrat, what regulations would you put in place to help curb another Newtown, Aurora, etc?

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Response to one_voice (Reply #22)


Response to patriots (Reply #25)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:02 PM

28. Seriously --

You guys have got to get some new material.

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Response to Hell Hath No Fury (Reply #28)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:08 PM

34. No Shit 2004 Called And They Want Their Freeper Manual Back!n/t

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Response to patriots (Reply #25)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:06 PM

32. Its a fucking school, it SHOULD be a gun free zone. Jeez, the morons are out of their cages.

Listen, when you go to sleep tonight, imagine it was your child shot by a gun and died.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #32)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 08:31 PM

100. I go to sleep every night thankful my kid is in a school protected by a guy with a gun.

 

I guess security wears many different dresses.

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Response to bucky balls (Reply #100)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 09:00 PM

104. Huh? He has his own body guard? Cool story bro.

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Response to bucky balls (Reply #100)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 08:17 PM

113. there were also a few guys with guns as security at Columbine...

a lot of good that did....

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Response to patriots (Reply #25)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:08 PM

36. Name one

Just one.

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 05:56 PM

23. Helpful Hint: Snotty Condescension Isn't A Productive Approach.


Also, try coming up with some new material. You're re-hashing the same gun militancy talking points we've heard hundreds of times around here. Enjoy your stay.

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:02 PM

27. Ever heard of COINTELPRO?

You ought to look them up.

I was a kid during their heyday.

At least I think that was their heyday back then.

Don

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:03 PM

29. Indeed.

I have a question Mr. Gun Nut. That question is did you really think that this argument would fly? The mandated use of seat belts and airbags are estimated to save more than ten thousand lives a year. But that isn't a violation of your personal right is it? No, that is common sense backed up by legislative action. Yet, the lives saved by seat belts and airbags are roughly speaking one third of that which would be saved by an outright banning of firearms.

So the question remains, why would we not act to save lives? Facts you say? OK. Why is it that every year we have roughly the same number of gun related deaths as a nation embroiled in civil war?

Yet we are supposed to do nothing, because hammers kill more people than rifles? That is the most asinine argument I have ever heard. You are worse than a fool, you're a poser, pretending to be a Democrat, and a Liberal. Those claimed positions mean you are rational, yet your defense of the mighty gun is most irrational.

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Response to Savannahmann (Reply #29)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:12 PM

41. Don't even let the poser off that easy.

Hammers DO NOT kill more people than rifles. That statistic was actually that BLUNT INSTRUMENTS of ALL kinds, not just hammers, cause more deaths than rifles. Straight out of the NRA lie book, that one.

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #41)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:42 PM

63. Still irrelevant to the discussion

But I was happy to throw a couple statistics of my own at him, which more than blunted his, even if they had been true.

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:04 PM

30. Bahahahah

This shit would be comedy if it wasn't so deadly serious.

So you support Obamacare?

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:04 PM

31. News flash! When some son-of-a-bitch kills 20+ children in a school, that is an act of terrorism.

I am sick to death of people rationalizing the personal possession of weapons that were manufactured with the SINGLE purpose of killing humans. ENOUGH!

Be a part of the solution, or step aside!

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:06 PM

33. DEAR DU MANAGEMENT: ENOUGH OF THIS! ALL GUN THREADS TO THE GUNGEON.

Yeah, it's current. But 20 or 30 new threads per day justifying the killing of kids? PLEASE!

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:08 PM

35. "because they can't find ONE (1) single terrorist in this whole fucking country!"

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #35)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 08:22 PM

114. I also commented on this yesterday and the poster did not respond...

Where did they come up with this tid bit...that the government cannot find one terrorist and puts explosives in their hands? What bullshit...

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Response to ceejdre82 (Reply #114)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 08:24 PM

115. He didn't respond because he was banned from DU.

If you click on a posters name you can see their profile and if they've been banned or not.

I won't comment on where they come up with it because it's obscene.

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #115)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 08:36 PM

116. yeah, i realized after I posted that he was banned...I and you are correct..

that is where they come up with their ideas!

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:09 PM

37. In the immortal words of Wolfgang Pauli:

Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!

"That is not only not right, it is not even wrong!"

And with thanks to Backscatter712:

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:10 PM

39. I'm a member of the gun owning community and the most complaining I'm hearing

is from gun nuts. Now the other side is speaking up using the 1st Amendment and the gun nuts believe there is only one amendment which is the 2nd. The dead children at Sandy Hook could not care less about all of this back in forth. It's time for definite action whatever it may be.

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:11 PM

40. I'm going to remember this post

the next time an assault gun is used in a massacre. Everytime I recall those babies in Newtown who were so horribly mowed down, I'm going to remember this post. The next time some NRA type gets up on my teevee and starts telling me how selling cold steel death to the masses is patriotic, I'm going to remember this post. I'm going to remember this post for a long time because you, my friend, are not willing to make a difference in all of this death and destruction brought about by these toys you value so highly. I'm going to remember this post for its message--that you could give a rat's patootie about any one else's right to life or liberty.

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Response to Skidmore (Reply #40)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:18 PM

45. Today Is One Month Since Newtown

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:14 PM

42. Oh please share with us Mr. Democrat Liberal Gun Nut

Tell us some of your liberal views.

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Response to zappaman (Reply #46)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:21 PM

48. Many thanks, EarlG! eom

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Response to zappaman (Reply #46)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:26 PM

54. "Take your NRA talking points elsewhere."

Bravo! Bravo!

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Response to zappaman (Reply #46)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 07:19 PM

81. Greatly Appreciated, EarlG. (nt)

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:26 PM

53. Okay.

Keep your semi-automatic rifles and we'll be happy to take the hand guns you own. They are, as you say, responsible for the vast majority of gun violence.

We have federal agents going around putting fake explosives into peoples' hands and nearly forcing them to go commit an "act of terrorism" for an arrest, because they can't find ONE (1) single terrorist in this whole fucking country!

I've often wondered, does that tin foil scratch your head?



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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:29 PM

56. It's not bullshit.

Enjoy your stay.

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:41 PM

61. Is it just me or does there seem to be alot more "gun nuts" joining DU lately?

Granted, I'm still a newbie myself, although I've lurked here for a few years.

I wouldn't be surprised if the extreme right-wing pro-gun community is encouraging folks to "join the discussions" here.

I see alot of new folks with low number posts "diving" right in to these gun discussions without lurking to feel the place out a bit first.

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Response to rightsideout (Reply #61)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:44 PM

65. It Is Happening

They are being recruited from various RW sites. They are disgusting.

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Response to rightsideout (Reply #61)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:48 PM

72. It has already been

proven that gun nuts (some from the Gungeon) are encouraging right-wing NRA-bots to join DU and disrupt as much as they can with NRA garbage. MIRT is doing a reasonable job of ferreting them out, but they just keep coming.

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Response to billh58 (Reply #72)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 09:47 PM

118. Okay, I'll bite. What does MIRT stand for? (n/t)

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:44 PM

64. Yawn...your 'we this and we that' is predictable and sad.

Thank you for letting us all know you are comfortable with gun deaths. NEXT.

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Response to Rex (Reply #64)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:52 PM

74. CommoFreak Has Left The Building

He brought 2 of his clown assistants but they all ended up driving off in the same clown car. MIRT was seen driving.

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:48 PM

71. "Running the numbers" is bullshit. It's a strawman point of view.

It doesn't matter how many people are killed in what manner. What matters is that innocent children were massacred at Sandy Hook.

If you think that compares to how many deaths occur from other causes, you have no sense of decency.

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 07:29 PM

82. A car, a knife and a hammer are as lethal as an AR-15?

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 07:42 PM

84. No thanks

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 07:44 PM

85. I think the point is well made about going after the wrong gun. Handguns have not been a big

enough part of the discussion. The media and public are focused on assault rifles following Newtown, but the OP is right that the numbers bear out handguns as the real culprit.

If the FBI trend data isn't persuasive enough, let us not forget the largest shooting in US history (Virginia Tech) was committed with handguns.

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 07:52 PM

87. You lost me at "hammers are more dangerous than guns!"

Liberal democrat, my ass. Buh-bye...

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 08:00 PM

91. "Posting privileges revoked"

As if saying "I'm a liberal too!" would negate all the RW fascist NRA talking points.

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 10:41 PM

108. "We have federal agents going around putting fake explosives into peoples' hands"

"and nearly forcing them to go commit an "act of terrorism" for an arrest, because they can't find ONE (1) single terrorist in this whole fucking country!"


Where are the sources for this information? and what does this have to do with guns?

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 08:53 PM

117. Two problems with your post

1) 11-post history, past the magic 10 required to start a topic, first topic this. I know it's calling out, but my trolldar is going off.

2) Your FBI link is seriously cherry-picked, as far as "more likely to die by a hammer". For those not bothering to go to the FBI page (which is just a simple chart) it breaks down murders by weapon. It's not more recent than 2009, but regardless..

Firearms account for 9,146 of 13,636. In other words, practically all (well, 2/3rds), and that's only 2009, not recently.

Blunt objects (of which hammers are just a part, along with baseball bats, skillets, rocks, and whatever else) are 611, or 4%.

I think the cherry-picking comes in because firearms are broken down into handguns, rifles, shotguns, other, and unspecified. The "other" (which is where I assume assault weapons fall) accounted for 94 deaths in 2009. So, from that point of view, assault weapons specifically fell below "blunt objects", but overall, firearms were the weapon of choice in over 2/3rds of murders.

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 10:16 PM

119. Another lemming tries to climb the ladder of sanity, only to fall crashing down

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 10:33 PM

122. I'm just going to address your third and fourth paragraphs and let someone else deal with your

spurious statistics.

It's no secret that any time something happens, even if it's something rather trivial, it's generally followed with media frenzy. Sensationalism has always been a deeply engrained part of our media history. I'm always very reluctant when I see it. I try to strip it away to gain an understanding of what is actually being conveyed to me. Either way, I'm skeptical at best. Distrusting at worst. And that's a good policy to have.

Throw it away. An emotional response usually results in damage. Do not trust what you see on TV. It's bad policy.


How do you define "trivial" with regard to shooting deaths? A shooting that takes the lives of 26 people, as long as you yourself don't know any of the dead? A shooting that takes a single life, because hey, what's a single human life? What do you have to "strip away" about someone being shot to death? Does media frenzy make a dead kid any less dead?

Or do you simply not believe that Sandy Hook happened? Because if you're one of those, you won't last long on this site, pal.

Now about this "emotional response" you're accusing the rest of us of having. How many dead six-year-olds would it take for you to have an "emotional response?"

How dare you presume to lecture us on our response to the epidemic of senseless violence in this country.

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Wed Jan 16, 2013, 11:05 AM

124. So its ok that 0.0000000317096% of Americans die each year so you can has the precious? Also, please


tell me how many houses and decks you've built with your AR-15 and then we can compare it to hammers.

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Response to CommoFreq (Original post)

Wed Jan 16, 2013, 11:07 AM

125. The most dangerous hammer of all is the BAN HAMMER. Watch out for it. You'll probably be seeing it


soon.

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