Mon Jan 14, 2013, 04:43 PM
99th_Monkey (15,322 posts)
John Cusak, J. Turley & K. McCabe re: civil liberties under Obama
This exchange may or may not have occurred before the 2012 election, since the references to
the election are not entirely clear on that point. However it is clearly quite relevant in either case,
since Obama won and that is the reality we as Democrats are going to inaugurate on Jan 20th.
John Cusack: It's so bizarre, because even when we talk about civil liberties, it sounds sort of like a very fringy issue -- kind of a kitsch, kind of like a thing that collectors of small trinkets do. I like my little Chinese boxes, I like my civil liberty.
What I don't understand is -- and that's why I think maybe it's just racism -- perhaps since it hasn't happened to anyone that we know yet, just those Arabs or brown skinned people from failed states. Fuck em .. It doesn't matter if they can throw Bradley Manning in jail. Doesn't matter if they can throw any Arab in jail or murder them, or their families at a wedding -- If the government can simply say -- we suspect this or these people are terrorists, we can pulverize them -- obliterate them from the face of earth.
Jonathan Turley: Or, more importantly you're going to have the same division. People are still not going to feel that they can oppose Obama, when the Republicans are even further to the right.
And so you're going to have the same dynamic. It's the same echo chamber that exists today. And that's why Obama's been so disastrous for the civil liberties movement. I wrote a column a few years ago, about the death of the civil liberties movement, for the LA Times. And it details how devastating Obama has been to the movement. I don't think his re-election will help, but rather hinder a meaningful movement to crystallize. It's not going to come together.
I think it could have come together if Romney were elected, ironically. I think it would've come together if McCain had been elected because you would have the removal of this very divisive figure, which is Barack Obama. Because many people just cannot fight on these civil liberties issues when they're fighting against this iconic figure.
John Cusack: Kevin, how do you see it playing out politically? Do you see any good news coming down the pike, or is it really just we have the obligation to tell the truth and take the beatings? Or rather watch on as others do -- in reality..
Kevin McCabe: I think we have too many problems at the same time: One. the Congress -- regardless of whether it's Democrat or Republican, the Congress, both the House and the Senate, are bought and paid for by "POLITICS/GOV. Inc. who control it. The commercial, professional consultants/lobbyists/fundraisers/operatives -- they run the business of Washington, DC now. So you have very few openings for anything creative, any alternative, any solution and the public at large is looking for solutions.
Two, Jon makes a great point that I hadn't thought about before. The fact is that there's no 50-50 split. There's a different kind of split. And the reason that Obama has not been as good as he could've been is because he's being enabled. And every day, there's this silent enabling of people who are afraid of being viewed as disloyal -- ooh, don't say that, you can't say that, you can't say that. He's our guy.
Well, the fact of the matter is, politically, if you don't have your supporters pushing you towards an agenda, pushing you to be better, pushing you to a higher plane...you leave it to the ego -- or to Obama's ego, or his vanity, or his narcissism, whatever you want to call it -- we will not benefit. The people at large will not benefit, it is about him, not the people.
So there's this, I believe, unintended, or well-intended, silent enabling by giving him a pass. And it's not just civil liberties.
What scares me the most is that so many of the people that are on the sidelines, that would have to be activated -- motivated and activated to make a movement, are taking it for granted.
John Cusack: I will see Assange soon and report back...
The above exchange consists of the last few paragraphs of this article:
3 replies, 730 views
John Cusak, J. Turley & K. McCabe re: civil liberties under Obama (Original post)
|Hell Hath No Fury||Jan 2013||#1|
Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)
Mon Jan 14, 2013, 05:03 PM
Hell Hath No Fury (15,600 posts)
1. Painfully correct. :(
Those are some hard Truths, but it's necessary that they are said/heard. The collapse of the antiwar/pro-civil rights left after the election of O put a stake in my heart.
Response to Hell Hath No Fury (Reply #1)
Mon Jan 14, 2013, 05:10 PM
99th_Monkey (15,322 posts)
2. I take it as a personal challenge, to challenge Obama
When he reneges on closing Gitmo, or maintains a "kill list", or violates
the civil rights of Bradley Manning, uses drones to target "suspected
terrorists", etc. rather than to shrug it off, just because Obama's a