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Mon Jan 14, 2013, 10:33 AM

My take on the torture in the movie, Zero Dark Thirty.

I watched the movie a couple of nights ago and thoroughly enjoyed the plot, the characters and most especially the scene when they put several bullets into that piece of shit---Osama Bin Laden.

The torture part:

Sure---the movie depicted torture---probably because they----errrr tortured the detainees. So--- can't blame Kathryn Bigelow for depicting truth.

Some say that the movie gave the impression that torture worked, hence they got actionable intelligence because of it.

That was not my take-a-way from those scenes.

My take-a-way was that it did not work. The detainee that they tortured didn't give them shit when he was being tortured but sure gave them good stuff when offered food and cigarettes.

Oh sure--- you may say that the torture helped move him along with cooperation--- but I don't think so.

When he was being tortured he was just making up shit.

When they were nice---he gave them plenty.

I think the movie verified that torture simply does not work and I think that was Bigelow's intent all along.

Just my opinion.

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Reply My take on the torture in the movie, Zero Dark Thirty. (Original post)
trumad Jan 2013 OP
JaneyVee Jan 2013 #1
hack89 Jan 2013 #2
cilla4progress Jan 2013 #6
hack89 Jan 2013 #8
LineLineLineReply ?
cilla4progress Jan 2013 #10
hack89 Jan 2013 #11
cilla4progress Jan 2013 #15
leftstreet Jan 2013 #3
cilla4progress Jan 2013 #7
ButterflyBlood Jan 2013 #21
LanternWaste Jan 2013 #27
stevenleser Jan 2013 #32
graham4anything Jan 2013 #4
Mr Dixon Jan 2013 #5
BeyondGeography Jan 2013 #9
Puzzledtraveller Jan 2013 #12
think Jan 2013 #13
global1 Jan 2013 #14
Luminous Animal Jan 2013 #16
Cooley Hurd Jan 2013 #17
99Forever Jan 2013 #18
theKed Jan 2013 #25
stevenleser Jan 2013 #33
99Forever Jan 2013 #35
Ligyron Jan 2013 #19
Enrique Jan 2013 #20
lovuian Jan 2013 #24
ButterflyBlood Jan 2013 #22
The Straight Story Jan 2013 #23
naaman fletcher Jan 2013 #26
trumad Jan 2013 #31
naaman fletcher Jan 2013 #34
LanternWaste Jan 2013 #28
Warren DeMontague Jan 2013 #29
tallahasseedem Jan 2013 #30
lovuian Jan 2013 #36

Response to trumad (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 10:37 AM

1. I enjoyed it. The torture scenes weren't too gratuitous & the last 1/2 hour is INTENSE.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 10:39 AM

2. I agree. I also thought it was an excellent movie. nt

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Response to hack89 (Reply #2)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 10:48 AM

6. Your avatar...

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Response to cilla4progress (Reply #6)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 10:48 AM

8. Thanks for reminding me. I am changing it to reflect a brighter future!

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Response to cilla4progress (Reply #6)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 10:57 AM

10. ?

Don't recognize new one (I'm a one-team fan, really).

I was just looking for a little camaraderie.

<Sigh>

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Response to cilla4progress (Reply #10)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 11:04 AM

11. Boston Bruins - it's hockey season! nt

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Response to hack89 (Reply #11)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 11:55 AM

15. I like your attitude!

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 10:41 AM

3. Why is a film about torture considered entertainment?

Jesus

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Response to leftstreet (Reply #3)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 10:48 AM

7. Total agreement from me.

Maybe we are "naive" and "unsophisticated"?

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Response to leftstreet (Reply #3)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 07:02 PM

21. It's not "about torture"

The torture scenes are a very small percentage of the film. Sheesh based on some folks here you'd think we were talking about the Saw movies or Hostel.

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Response to leftstreet (Reply #3)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 08:23 PM

27. Like Princess Bride, Clockwork Orange or the First Star Wars movie?

"Why is a film about torture considered entertainment?"

Like Princess Bride, Clockwork Orange or the First Star Wars movie? Or Goodfellas? Or Misery? Braveheart?

I dunno... I guess a lot of people enjoy a bit of escapism while knowing the difference between allegory and non-fiction.

Sometimes, the torture is merely a plot device rather than an icon to be seen, worshiped and avowed. Like an argument being depicted in a film... no one likes to argue (well, the cleverer-than-thou set like to argue, but that's merely for their own self-validation), but half of Tennessee Williams 'Cat on A Hot Tin Roof' is nothing but argument-- does this mean we actually like couples being vulgar to each other? Or merely that we can gradually see more additional bits and pieces of a character when we allow the plot to work for us rather than fighting vainly against it...?

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #27)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 08:37 PM

32. I agree. If you follow that logic, you have to love everything you see on screen in order to watch

something and be a good person.

How would you watch anything?

The entire horror/thriller genre is out, Gone with the Wind, The Accused and Streetcar named desire are out because they have rape scenes. You cannot watch any historical account of wars, any realistic account of the middle ages, feudalism, the Roman empire, etc. is probably out since all of those featured horrific treatment of people as a matter of course.

I guess any documentary of slavery or the holocaust is out.

It doesn't leave much. I guess all good people can watch is reruns of sesame street and Mr. Rogers.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 10:41 AM

4. You are right. And it was good old fashioned police detective work, and keeping focus on the prize

 

IMHO it was the focus of a few people with the eye on the prize, not just looking to
pass it bureaucratically

good solid detective work

which is how President Obama wants to deal with this- court of law like, though he is constantantly unable due to the Peter Kings out there.

They could have dropped a bunker busting bomb, but then, who would have been sure if they got the prize or didn't.

This was was solid 100% proof.

and i wasn't a fan of Hurt Locker, found that boring

but this was edge of the seat suspense, even knowing the ending
Very quick 2hours 45 minutes.

BTW, they show more torture in one episode of Homeland or 24.
And wonder, who came first, Mya or Carrie of Homeland?
couldn't be coincidental that both were so similiar, especially as they say the real person in ZDT does not look like Chastain looks like.

and 24 week in week out was worse torture wise, and far more rightwing.

but

who in the world wouldn't have wanted a drone droped on OBL the day before he gave the orders for 9-11 and saved all those people's lives?

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 10:44 AM

5. SMH

Torture is not new in US policy; just this damn internet is pulling back curtains.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 10:51 AM

9. Buying a Lamborghini worked a lot quicker than torture

Granted, that wasn't for a prisoner so, different situation. A pretty dispiriting use of tax dollars, but it was effective. Funny how that gets no attention.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 11:09 AM

12. As far as the film and the real events go I never had

much of a problem with the possibility that torture may have yielded useful results. I'm not saying I advocate it now or did then but it had already been done. In that respect I won't let it prevent me from seeing the film or tarnishing my experience. The trailers look really good.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 11:09 AM

13. It probably was entertaining but

Bold added for emphasis:



The CIA did not first learn about the existence of the UBL courier from CIA detainees subjected to coercive interrogation techniques. Nor did the CIA discover the courier's identity from CIA detainees subjected to coercive techniques. No CIA detainee reported on the courier's full name or specific whereabouts, and no detainee identified the compound in which UBL was hidden. Instead, the CIA learned of the existence of the courier, his true name, and location through means unrelated to the CIA detention and interrogation program.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marjorie-cohn/zero-dark-thirty-fact-check_b_2452721.html


See also:

http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/files/serve/?File_id=d5bcc8f1-4ac5-4d25-9371-4f748c225597

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 11:28 AM

14. Didn't See The Movie And Don't Intend To See It - But Did Anybody Question The Author As To.....

what their intent was on this?

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 12:09 PM

16. Tortured logic...,

The man was tortured, then given a nice little sandwich and then, when he still refused to talk was threatened with with more torture.

http://gregmitchellwriter.blogspot.com/2013/01/this-blogger-matt-cornell-makes-fine.html

Really, you can watch the scene at the link.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 05:00 PM

17. that's my take on it as well...

They were slapping the hell out of the guy, water boarding him and he kept quiet (or flat out lied). Once they fed him, he was chatty as hell.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 05:06 PM

18. That's my take also.

Just watched it last night. Came away with the very same thoughts.

I guess some people think that if we just pretend that the torture didn't happen, then...


.. well crap...

.. I honestly don't know what they are wringing their hands about.

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #18)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 07:10 PM

25. Pretending it didn't happen

And making a massive, multi-million dollar movie about it, putting it in every theatre in the land, and throwing "awards" at it are two very, very different things. The first is denial and unhealthy, the latter is glorifying inhumane acts. But it's okay because ... I dunno, Kill Osama?

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Response to theKed (Reply #25)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 08:40 PM

33. See Lanternwaste's #27 and my #32 nt

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Response to theKed (Reply #25)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 08:52 PM

35. Let me guess.

You haven't seen it, right?

How do you think I might be able to know that?

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 05:45 PM

19. Good Movie!

Torture didn't really work, did it.

Detective work and bribes worked much better.

and persistence!

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 05:51 PM

20. the guy gives the name right after being threatened with torture

"I can always hang you up again"

&feature=player_embedded

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Response to Enrique (Reply #20)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 07:08 PM

24. Yes he gave it up but Human ERROR kept them from finding

Osama...so we can torture but if we commit Human Error
the Torture isn't really working is it


Torture doesn't work and if you think that movie showed it did
I think you need to look at it again

we found Osama 10 years later .....even with torture and trillions of dollars and violating every law in the book

Osama was either brilliant or we are just not getting our money's worth

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 07:03 PM

22. I agree completely, and I have seen the movie

The pearl-clutchers from what I gathered have not.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 07:07 PM

23. They didn't let him smoke in a govt detention facility did they??? OMFG

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 07:11 PM

26. I refuse to watch it.

 

The victory lap for the security state.

I can't believe so many DUers paid to see this.

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Response to naaman fletcher (Reply #26)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 08:37 PM

31. Victory Lap to killing that Mother Fucker...

Sorry it upsets you so...

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Response to trumad (Reply #31)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 08:41 PM

34. I have nothing against killing that individual

 

I have a huge problem with that individual being the excuse for 10 years of bankrupting the country while undermining civil liberties and making the security state the norm for our everyday lives.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 08:25 PM

28. On this day in DU History...

On this day in DU History, I'm not merely agreeing with you, but Agreeing with you.

(Not that you or I particularly give a shit, but if this can happen, there's hope for Israel and Palestine)

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 08:26 PM

29. I don't think it's a coincidence that not much progress was made on finding Osama until after 2008.

Bush made it damn clear he didn't give a shit, and he certainly didn't mind the political convenience of having an elusive boogeyman out there to justify all the shit he wanted to do.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #29)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 08:33 PM

30. +1

I completely agree! It did wonders to re-elect him in 2004.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #29)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 08:57 PM

36. Osama was Bush's Boggie man remember living on the Amber Alerts

the Monthly Osama Videos

Be afraid America Be terribly afraid
Patriot Act Homeland Security

Wiretapping OK Torture OK Trillions of dollars missing OK
exposing CIA Agents OK

Lying about WMD and doing a preemptive Strike on Iraq
OK

It is all OK because we are hunting for a guy with a beard who has a room full of outdated computers


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