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Sun Jan 13, 2013, 11:57 AM

I am lukewarm for Chuck Hagel

I'm sure he could do a fine job as an administrator in the Pentagon, and yes it is good that he is an advocate for downsizing the bloated military (even if only a little). I respect his heroic service in Vietnam as well. But I have two problems:

1) the anti-gay remarks he made 15 years ago, for which he has only belatedly and half-heartedly apologized.

2) Why do Democratic presidents keep appointing Republican Defense secretaries? This goes all the way back to FDR with Henry Stimson, JFK with McNamara (real prize he turned out to be), Clinton with Bill Cohen, and now Obama with Bob Gates and Hagel. It does kind of reinforce the notion that the Pentagon is somehow the Republicans' turf, and that only they can run the Defense Department. That pattern needs to be broken.

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Arrow 31 replies Author Time Post
Reply I am lukewarm for Chuck Hagel (Original post)
bluestateguy Jan 2013 OP
Honeycombe8 Jan 2013 #1
Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #2
Honeycombe8 Jan 2013 #8
glowing Jan 2013 #17
Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #19
Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #23
Inuca Jan 2013 #31
Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #5
Honeycombe8 Jan 2013 #9
Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #12
cherokeeprogressive Jan 2013 #26
TwilightGardener Jan 2013 #3
Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #4
TwilightGardener Jan 2013 #6
Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #14
TwilightGardener Jan 2013 #16
Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #21
TwilightGardener Jan 2013 #25
Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #27
TwilightGardener Jan 2013 #30
undeterred Jan 2013 #7
bluestateguy Jan 2013 #18
undeterred Jan 2013 #20
forestpath Jan 2013 #10
Honeycombe8 Jan 2013 #11
Honeycombe8 Jan 2013 #13
Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #15
Iggo Jan 2013 #22
Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #24
Cynicus Emeritus Jan 2013 #28
TwilightGardener Jan 2013 #29

Response to bluestateguy (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 12:00 PM

1. For the umpteenth time, Hagel is not Republican. He's an Independent. He left the Repub Party yrsago

Like Charlie Crist of FL. Like that older man who just died...the one who left the Republican Party and SUPPLIED THE DECIDING VOTE IN PASSING OBAMA'S HEALTHCARE REFORM ACT.

There IS a difference between current Republicans and those who left the Republican Party.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #1)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 12:24 PM

2. That is absolute bunk. Hagel is a Republican, he did not leave the Republican Party. You are wrong.

Hagel did not vote on the healthcare reform either, he was no longer in the Senate when that vote happened.
Hagel is a current Republican, a Republican who never left the Party. Since you admit that a 'current Republican' is very different from one who switched Parties, as Crist finally did, does that alter your view of Hagel? What IS the difference as you see it?

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #2)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 01:01 PM

8. Don't lie to people. He did leave the Republican Party. The old guy who gave the ACA deciding vote

was not Hagel...as I clearly state in my post. I forget the man's name. He just died recently.

Crist is an Independent, like Hagel. Crist is NOT a Democrat.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #8)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 01:28 PM

17. actually, officially, Crist, is now.. He joined the Dem party recently.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #8)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 01:40 PM

19. You are incorrect and you should stop making false statements and false accusations.

Hagel is and always has been a Republican. Crist was Republican, then Independent, now he's a Democrat. Hagel is just a once and future Republican.
I'm sorry you don't like the facts, but Hagel is a Republican. A member of the Republican right. You need to stop making mendacious claims, it makes Chuck look worse and your own support seem one shallow.
You favor a Republican for high office, one who voted YES on invading Iraq and one who is opposed to equality and women's rights. You might as well get comfortable with that, facts are facts.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #8)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 01:50 PM

23. Hagel is a Republican. And you are just rude and incorrect.

Crist is now a Democrat. Hagel is still a Republican. You are, I am sure, simply mistaken, not intentionally lying and calling others liars just to promote some Republican. Or are you doing this intentionally?
Your posts in this thread are either terrifically stupid or intentionally duplicitous. Hagel is and was a Republican. Never been an Independent, never been a Democrat, he is a Republican.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #8)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 08:22 AM

31. Arlen Specter n/t

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #1)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 12:59 PM

5. Your agenda is showing. Hagel is a Republican, always has been.

I understand the difficulty you face in promoting a Republican who is anti gay and opposed to choice. It is hard to support that sort of person without falling into Republican habits, like making stuff up out of thin air and declaring them to be true.
Hagel is a Republican.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #5)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 01:02 PM

9. Hagel is an Independent. He left the Republican Party a long time ago. Facts are facts. Crist

is an Independent, as well.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #9)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 01:08 PM

12. That is simply not the truth. Why don't you back up your assertion with a quote from Chuckie?

You are just making that up because you are not happy to be so supportive of a mainline conservative like Hagel. He is anti choice and anti gay, he voted for the Iraq War just like the rest of the GOP save for Lincoln Chafee.
Hagel remains a member of the Republican Party. Crist did switch Parties, Hagel did not. Crist is now a Democrat, not an independent. He was in Independent in between.
Here is a link about Crist, showing that I am very correct. Now, show me your link that says Hagel left the Republican Party. You can't, because he is still a Republican.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/09/us/politics/charlie-crist-former-florida-governor-joins-democratic-party.html?_r=0

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #1)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 01:56 PM

26. As of the 10th of January, the NYT has him listed as a republican.

In fact, in the following link, the FOURTH WORD is republican. I don't think there's much doubt about what party he claims as his own.

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/h/chuck_hagel/index.html

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Response to bluestateguy (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 12:33 PM

3. He is a flawed man, no doubt. That said, Obama is looking for someone

who can get his objectives accomplished at the Pentagon--this nomination is actually a big fucking deal in terms of future foreign policy and defense policy, and Obama desperately needs someone with a strong personality who isn't afraid to go in and do what needs to be done against powerful interests. That sort of person tends to not be a "nice guy".

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #3)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 12:45 PM

4. I'd respect the Pro Hagel, 'hate does not matter if it is not toward me' folks if they'd be honest.

I mean, look at this thread. Hagel is a Republican, but the Hagel defenders claim he is not. Why is that? Why don't those among you seeking honest discourse correct those lies told in Hagel's behalf?
The man voted YES on the Iraq Invasion. Yet you support him as not being afraid of powerful interests? I guess then his vote was his own, a stupidity so great that it was a form of criminality.
Many good people actually opposed the invasion. Hagel was not among them. He was a Yes vote.
The rewarding of idiots and the elevation of those who were so wrong is pathetic. The hate showed to those who were correct when the idiots were wrong is more than that, it is poison to our future.
Hagel is an anti gay, anti choice, Iraq Invading Republican. Those are all things I am not supportive of. Why others are so willing to jump on that bandwagon is a mystery.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #4)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 01:00 PM

6. The reasons why he's flawed are what also make him a conservative Repub--

but it's wrong to write someone off for being flawed, or having made bad decisions--IF they reflect and understand why they were wrong and learn from it. I don't think Hagel feels strongly anti-gay enough to affect his ability to carry out Obama's directives regarding the LGBT servicemembers--and if there's any question about it, he will answer at the hearings. I read a blogger who said there would be protests and demonstrations at the White House if Hagel didn't bend over backward to accomodate them, and that would be a good thing. (You could, OTOH, get a different SecDef in there who would quietly put the issue on a backburner or even discriminate, since you don't know what their own personal feelings are toward LGBT--they've never had to take a stand on it publicly, and thus no one is watching them like they will be with Hagel.) In terms of Iraq, he was torn on his vote. Still wrong, but I like the fact that he hesitated and was reluctant to give Bush that authorization, even though it was his own party's President. He was never a cheerleader of Iraq, and then became a severe critic, and thus ended his career in Republican politics.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #6)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 01:15 PM

14. Can you at least admit that he is still a Republican?

The level of dishonesty in these threads is appalling. Hagel was a supporter of the Iraq Invasion. 23 of his Senate peers voted NO, including one Republican Mr Chafee. Hagel voted YES on invading Iraq.
So he's a Republican with a vicious anti gay and anti choice background as context for his YES vote on the Iraq Invasion.
But the Pro Hagel folks claim he left the GOP. You know that is not true. Yet you let that lie stand. Speaks volumes.
I asked you why the Pro Hagel people are lying about him leaving the GOP. You of course did not respond to what I actually asked you. That must be because you are so respectful of those who are unlike you and Chuck. I ask you specific, direct questions and you act as if you did not hear me. It is what it is.
Hagel is and was a Republican. You know that. Which is why I asked you to state that fact for your fellow Hagel Hagiographers.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #14)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 01:22 PM

16. Of course he's a Republican.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #16)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 01:46 PM

21. I'm being called a liar upthread by a Pro Hagel poster for stating that fact. Classy folks.

Of course he's a Republican. You should inform your fellow Hagel supporters that he is a Republican, they are posting all over DU that he 'left the Party years ago' and they are being very rude and ugly to others about it. Rude, nasty and wrong. For a Republican, no less.
Some good company you have there!

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #21)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 01:55 PM

25. Already tried correcting that poster, to no avail, so I gave up.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #25)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 02:11 PM

27. I don't usually mind the folks who are just incorrect, but that one is calling ME a liar for being

correct. That's too far. The undercurrents of bigotry in the pro Hagel support group really appalls me. The open mendacity is not surprising after all the open prejudice.
I'm sorry that your cohort is filled with those who will lie and keep lying even when corrected, but I will not stand by and take it.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #27)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 07:01 PM

30. See my post # 29 below. You might find it interesting.

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Response to bluestateguy (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 01:01 PM

7. He stole his Senate seat.

He is a corrupt rethug jackass. Why are we even talking about him?

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Response to undeterred (Reply #7)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 01:36 PM

18. I don't remember that

Not saying you're wrong, I just don't remember it that way.

As I recall, Ben Nelson had a big lead against Hagel throughout the 1996 and Nelson collapsed in the polls in the last two weeks of the campaign.

I think the same thing happened to Nelson in 2000 as well, but that time he held on to win by a whisker.

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Response to bluestateguy (Reply #18)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 01:42 PM

20. He is a major shareholder in the companies that own the voting machines in Nebraska.

Its among the most ridiculous of all the voting scenarios in the modern world. If Jimmy Carter went into a country to help them have fair elections and they had a setup like Nebraska, there is no way it would pass the standards.

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Response to bluestateguy (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 01:07 PM

10. Apparently homophobic Republicans really impress some Democrats.

 

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Response to bluestateguy (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 01:07 PM

11. ďItís clear that Chuck Hagel left the Republican party when he endorsed President Obama in 2008...."

Cornyn also challenged the bipartisan nature of the Hagel nomination saying: ďItís clear that Chuck Hagel left the Republican party when he endorsed President Obama in 2008 but this isnít about politics, this isnít about personalities. This is about being wrong on the principal national security issues that confront our country today and his lack of suitability for being the head of our national security apparatus at the Pentagon.Ē

http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/01/07/cornyn-chuck-hagel-left-the-republican-party/

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Response to bluestateguy (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 01:11 PM

13. "Last year, after having left office, Hagel endorsed Democrat Bob Kerrey in his race for Nebraska's

"Last year, after having left office, Hagel endorsed Democrat Bob Kerrey in his race for Nebraska's other Senate seat."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2013/01/07/chuck-hagel-defense-obama/1816049/


People in a political party, esp those with political influence who serve in the U.S. Congress in a political party, don't endorse the opposing party's candidates. If you do, you have left the party.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #13)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 01:17 PM

15. But Obama has endorsed and appointed Republicans. Does that mean he left the Democratic Party?

Hagel still calls himself a Republican, because he is a Republican. Colin Powell just this morning stated that he too is still a Republican, that his endorsements of Democrats do not alter that fact. It was on TV and everything...
Hagel is a Republican, always has been and still it.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #13)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 01:49 PM

22. Colin "War Criminal" Powell.

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Response to Iggo (Reply #22)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 01:52 PM

24. Facts are anathema to that poster. The poster has difficulty admitting Hagel is a Republican!

It is a hilarious and defining display which puts the ethics of the Hagel crowd center stage and in the spotlight.

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Response to bluestateguy (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 06:54 PM

28. If Hagel puts fundamental mid west common sense and the USA citizens first

 

I support him. Too many in our USA government have put other countries like China and global, multi-national corporations and such bankers on Wall St first. "Multi-national" be it government officials or corporations are the real threat to our freedom and US citizenry. A loss of USA sovereignty and putting citizenry second or third has become a mission of those in power but only because they tend to profit and we pay the bills.

We've been mired in a decades of war. Our jobs and economy and latest technology were subsidized by USA tax credits and then were outsourced to China to benefit Wall Sts players.

I don't understand the huge emphasis on Israel? It gets huge USA taxpayer assistance but we don't get a say in their government? Most Americans that I know have no desire to influence their government other than sending Netanyahu's Likud packing to Antarctica. Israel has no right to influence Obamas cabinet. Americans typically stay out of their government, except that every taxpaying American is put on the hook for billions for their government. We need to end all foreign aid until we once again are the same nation we were fiscally 50 years ago.

We need a USA government with common sense, that benefits our citizens and Americans only, and that keeps outside influences such as multi-national corporations and all lobbies from ever influencing our government with bribes and donations and threats. Public financing of elections would end the corruption and lobbies for interests.


<i> Populist, Progressive, Libertarian for citizen rights </i>

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Response to bluestateguy (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 06:57 PM

29. Interestingly, Hagel was fine with gay marriage, and said so publicly, in 2007:

He has clearly "evolved" from the 90's. Note he doesn't say "civil unions", either, the way Obama did until recently:

"How conservative are you really? Tell me the truth: You don't care whether or not gay people get married, do you?"

"No. Personally, I think marriage is between a man and a woman, but that's because I see it as a religious union. As a legal contract, marriage should be up to the states. If a state wants to change the rules, that's up to them."


Read More http://www.gq.com/news-politics/newsmakers/200701/republican-senator-chuck-hagel-war#ixzz2Hu2woFEO

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