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Sat Jan 12, 2013, 05:59 PM

I like Agenda 21 - who's with me?

64 replies, 4719 views

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Reply I like Agenda 21 - who's with me? (Original post)
jpak Jan 2013 OP
a geek named Bob Jan 2013 #1
DJ13 Jan 2013 #2
jpak Jan 2013 #3
mogli Feb 2013 #59
DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav Jan 2013 #4
DJ13 Jan 2013 #6
DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav Jan 2013 #9
jpak Jan 2013 #13
mogli Feb 2013 #61
RandiFan1290 Jan 2013 #18
mogli Feb 2013 #60
jpak Jan 2013 #7
Posteritatis Jan 2013 #8
proud2BlibKansan Jan 2013 #11
Posteritatis Jan 2013 #12
DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav Jan 2013 #14
jpak Jan 2013 #15
proud2BlibKansan Jan 2013 #16
jpak Jan 2013 #17
DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav Jan 2013 #19
jpak Jan 2013 #20
jpak Jan 2013 #22
DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav Jan 2013 #25
jpak Jan 2013 #26
Posteritatis Jan 2013 #24
DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav Jan 2013 #29
jpak Jan 2013 #30
Posteritatis Jan 2013 #31
jpak Jan 2013 #32
DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav Jan 2013 #35
jpak Jan 2013 #37
DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav Jan 2013 #39
Posteritatis Jan 2013 #41
DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav Jan 2013 #44
jpak Jan 2013 #45
DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav Jan 2013 #21
jpak Jan 2013 #23
UnrepentantLiberal Jan 2013 #58
mogli Feb 2013 #62
proud2BlibKansan Feb 2013 #63
mogli Feb 2013 #64
freshwest Jan 2013 #46
freshwest Jan 2013 #47
jpak Jan 2013 #50
freshwest Jan 2013 #51
freshwest Jan 2013 #52
jpak Jan 2013 #55
freshwest Jan 2013 #56
jpak Jan 2013 #57
madokie Jan 2013 #5
proud2BlibKansan Jan 2013 #10
freshwest Jan 2013 #48
kaboom15 Jan 2013 #27
jpak Jan 2013 #28
jpak Jan 2013 #33
Puha Ekapi Jan 2013 #34
jpak Jan 2013 #36
Puha Ekapi Jan 2013 #40
DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav Jan 2013 #42
WCGreen Jan 2013 #38
jpak Jan 2013 #43
freshwest Jan 2013 #49
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #54
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #53
happyslug Feb 2013 #65

Response to jpak (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 06:05 PM

1. could you provide links to the body of initiatives?

 

There seems to be quite a bit of rhetoric on the subject...

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Response to jpak (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 06:27 PM

2. Uh Oh

Now you've done it.

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Response to DJ13 (Reply #2)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:03 PM

3. Agenda 21 is the best!

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #3)


Response to jpak (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:16 PM

4. I live part time in the city and part time rural. I would hate for the government to force me

 

into a government sanctioned living city. My rural home is in a yellow zone now so I would be forced into a city and there isn't a lot of room for horses to run in the city. At least not an affordable place for me

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #4)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:21 PM

6. What happens to Seattle in that map?

It seems to be a "no human use" area.

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Response to DJ13 (Reply #6)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:37 PM

9. Here's a Democratic website better explaining agenda 21. I think there are 600 cities chosen

 

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #9)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:05 PM

13. But I'm a Democrat and I like Agenda 21

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #13)


Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #9)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:18 PM

18. hurr durr

It's got democrat in the bluey parts!!!

the new alexandria library??



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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #9)


Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #4)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:30 PM

7. I like that

yup

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #4)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:31 PM

8. Uh, there's nothing in A21 about forced relocations. Also, that site is on expired crack. (nt)

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #4)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:43 PM

11. You need to post a link for that map.

Cause I'd like to know which whacky wingnut site it came from.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #11)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:05 PM

12. It looks like it came from the site it's hosted on. (nt)

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #11)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:12 PM

14. The map was made up from plans taken From: The United Nations Convention on Biological Diversity.

 

Article 8a-e; United Nations Global Biodiversity Assessment, Section 13.4.2.2.3; US Man and the Biosphere Strategic Plan, UN/US Heritage
Corridor Program, "The Wildlands Project", Wild Earth, 1992,. Also see Science, "The High Cost of Biodiversity," 25 June, 1993, pp 1968-1871 and the Border 21 Sidebar of NAFTA. The very high percentage of buffer zone in the West is due to the very high percentage of federal land.

The man who created the map is

Until 1992 Dr. Coffman was a manager for Champion International, a leading forest and paper products company in the United States. During his tenure with Champion, he became Chairman of the Forest Health Group within National Council for the Paper Industry for Air and Stream Improvement, a respected scientific research group for the Paper Industry. In this, and other related responsibilities, he oversaw a multimillion dollar research program in which he became intimately involved in such national and international issues as acid rain, global climate change, wetlands, cumulative effects and biological diversity. During this time he was a spokesperson for the Paper Industry for the Media on these issues.

http://www.discerningtoday.org/dr__michael_coffman.htm

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #14)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:15 PM

15. So Dr. Coffman likes Agenda 21 too

I like Dr. Coffman.

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #14)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:15 PM

16. You forgot this part:

This guy is a far right whack job.

In what has to be a miracle from God, Dr. Coffman played a key role in stopping the ratification of the Convention on Biological Diversity (Biodiversity Treaty) in the U.S. Senate an hour before the Senate was scheduled to vote on its ratification. His maps and information have been used by local citizens across America to stop the global agenda at the local level. This includes two UN Biosphere Reserves. He has been a featured TV guest on the Outdoor Channel, C-Span and numerous national radio shows such as Marlin Maddoux's Point of View, the G. Gordon Liddy Show and others.

Dr. Coffman has written a definitive book that is highly recommended by several conservative members of Congress that exposes the pantheistic environmentalist phenomenon; Saviors of the Earth? The Politics and Religion of Environmentalism. His two most recent DVDs, Global Warming or Global Governance and Global Warming, Emerging Science have received accolades from around the world. He has spoken to audiences in over 150 cities in America, Canada and South Africa and has participated in United Nations meetings in Europe and Africa. In 2010 he published his newest book, Rescuing a Broken America; Why America is Deeply Divided and How We Can Heal it Constitutionally.

In 1999 Dr. Coffman began to publish Discerning the Times Digest, a highly focused monthly newsletter designed to help busy Christians understand world events as related to the Bible and their Christian lives. Although the digest had accurately predicted what was eventually called the 9-11 terrorist attack during its first year of publication in 1999, the actual event so shocked our readers that revenues dropped sharply and we had to discontinue the digest.

Dr. Coffman accepted Jesus Christ as his savior in 1973 and is currently very active in his Church where he is a board member, active in a number of church programs and teaches an in-depth Sunday School class for adults. In the latter effort he spent 1994 and again in 1999 he undertook extensive research and writing for his class on Bible prophesy as it relates to past and current events. He is married to his lovely wife Susan, has two children Jonathan and Tamera and five grandchildren.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #16)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:18 PM

17. Don't you say bad things about Dr. Coffman....

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #16)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:26 PM

19. He stopped it from passing in the US under that program name, but it's still UN agenda 21. I

 

It's still the plan.

I thought the question was if we like agenda 21? I don't care for it for the specific reason that the land i live on is planned for no human use, and I don't like the government having control of the rain that falls on my property. I expect everyone else here will probably love it, and to be honest I haven't read the entire thing so maybe it's a great thing, just not for me in particular - but then most laws made in the past 20 years never are.

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #19)


Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #19)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:33 PM

22. Agenda 21 is the best

I don't think I like you...

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Response to jpak (Reply #22)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:37 PM

25. I'm sorry my opinion of agenda 21 makes you dislike me.

 

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #25)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:38 PM

26. OK

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #19)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:36 PM

24. Haven't read the whole thing? You don't say.

Why don't you do so and get back to us when you find the parts that refer to that whole inverse-Khmer-Rouge thing you're babbling about.

In the actual documentation, mind, not idiotic websites that babble about the New World Order mind control chemicals in our water.

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Response to Posteritatis (Reply #24)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:46 PM

29. Maybe you and I are reading different UN agenda 21s.

 



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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #29)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:48 PM

30. Are there different ones?

Is there a bad one?

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #29)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:52 PM

31. Show me where it mandates your forced relocation.

Chapter, article and clause. While you're at it, explain the enforcement mechanisms.

Lying about international law is a common enough pastime on the right; I'm not really interested in showing a lot of patience for it becoming a pastime here as well. So unless you're doing that, or blindly parroting the words of someone else who is, feel free to pony up some actual primary source evidence.

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Response to Posteritatis (Reply #31)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:55 PM

32. Dude chill - it was from a website called Democrats Against UN Agenda 21

Democrats are against it.

OK?

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Response to Posteritatis (Reply #31)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:30 PM

35. I ponied up the map, the author of it, which article, title and section it was from. The map

 

says the area I live in isn't appropriated for humans. So unless they're planning on giving me a free pass, which usually doesn't happen, I'd guess I'll be moving when they tell me to. I misspoke when I used the word forced. They call it eminent domain.

The power to take private property for public use by a state, municipality, or private person or corporation authorized to exercise functions of public character, following the payment of just compensation to the owner of that property.

Federal, state, and local governments may take private property through their power of eminent domain or may regulate it by exercising their Police Power. The Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution requires the government to provide just compensation to the owner of the private property to be taken.


http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/eminent+domain

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #35)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:32 PM

37. So, the UN is going to take your land by eminent domain?

That is bad

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Response to jpak (Reply #37)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:39 PM

39. No, the US has the right to take my land by eminent domain, as part of UN agenda 21s

 

planned biodiversity program that was seen on the map. Actually the US can take my land by eminent domain even without agenda 21. So I guess there's nothing wrong with it after all. It's a great plan. Carry on.

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #35)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:41 PM

41. No you didn't, you ponied up a map from a bullshit conspiracy site.

And who cares about online dictionaries? They mean precisely nothing when you're discussing matters of law, since legal definitions supercede those.

So let's try again. Show me where in the original Agenda 21 texts it says that "they" will be taking your property.

Also, tell us who "they" are, and while you're at it, explain the enforcement mechanisms that "they" will have available - and, in fact, how "they" can have enforcement mechanisms for something that isn't and never was a binding law or treaty in the first place.

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Response to Posteritatis (Reply #41)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:55 PM

44. No, the map was grabbed from google it was on the top so I grabbed it. I gave you all of the

 

information on the map, it wasn't made by a conspiracy theorist. I'm not going to explain it again. I said the biodiversity part of the plan wouldn't be good for me because of where i live.

You however don't live where I do so I'm sure you'll love the biodiversity program and all other aspects of agenda 21.It's all good, just not for me, the one person in the entire world who lives where I do. For everyone else this is great plan and I'm all for it.

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #44)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:03 PM

45. So, they want to put in a UN road for the animals - and kick you off your property?

That is bad.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #16)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:31 PM

21. They wanted to know where the map came from. I told them. He has great credentials. His religion

 

shouldn't factor in to a map he created from UN documents

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #21)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:35 PM

23. Are they secret UN Agenda 21 documents - can you tell us where they are?

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Response to jpak (Reply #23)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 05:27 AM

58. You caused a whole lot of bad stuff to happen

 

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #16)


Response to mogli (Reply #62)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:11 AM

63. Enjoy your brief stay!

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #63)


Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #11)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:22 PM

46. Here you go. Your wish is my command!

United Nations - Agenda21

TAKE A CLOSE LOOK AT THIS MAP. IF YOU LIVE IN THE RED OR YELLOW ZONES, UNDER AGENDA 21 - YOU WON'T.

http://thenewalexandrialibrary.com/agenda21.html

Featured links on the left side of the page:

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Response to freshwest (Reply #46)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:28 PM

47. Whoops, here's your links:

Home
Journey To A Brave New World
GMO FOODS
DHS Preparing for Civil War
MARTIAL LAW - COMING SOON
U.S. PREPARING FOR GENOCIDE
POLICE STATE UNCOVERED
COINCIDENCE THEORY
DEPOPULATION AGENDA
Sodium Fluoride - Killing us softly
9/11 TRUTH
THE NEW WORLD ORDER
HOW THE NEW WORLD ORDER WORKS
THE NEXT 30 YEARS
US ARMED FORCES SURVEY
The MONEY SCAM
FDIC - Do the Math
GLOBAL WARMING HOAX + CHEMTRAILS + AGENDA 21 + HAARP
The NAZI Connection
MASS MIND CONTROL
THOUGHT CRIME - 1984 is here
THREE WORLD WARS
BIG PHARMA AND VACCINNES
Barry Soetoro/Barack Obama
FORGED BIRTH CERT
CODEX ALIMENTARIUS
LEFT Vs RIGHT PARADIGM
OKLAHOMA BOMBING
LONDON BOMBINGS
ASSASSINATIONS
U.F.O. AGENDA
REALITY CHECK - PODCASTS
DOWNLOADS -NEW
LINKS
GET PREPARED
RECOMMENDED STUDY AIDS
Obama Comes Clean


Just a minute:

THIS WEBSITE IS DEDICATED TO EDUCATING THE PEOPLE TO THE REALITY OF THE WORLD WE LIVE AND THE PLANS FOR MASSIVE POPULATION REDUCTION, FULL SPECTRUM DOMINANCE AND A ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT TO BE RUN BY A CABAL OF INTERNATIONAL BANKERS.
IF YOU CAN BREAK FREE OF YOU'RE PROGRAMMING PLEASE DO WHAT YOU CAN TO HELP OTHERS WAKE UP, BEFORE WE RUN OUT OF TIME.

IF YOU'VE EVER WONDERED WHY CANCER RATES HAVE INCREASED AND WHY BIRTH AND FERTILITY RATES HAVE SIGNIFICANTLY DROPPED - THEN YOU SHOULD SPEND 15 MINUTES TO WATCH THIS VIDEO AND THEN GO TO DEPOPULATION AGENDA.


See all the links and videos at:

http://thenewalexandrialibrary.com/index.html

And my addition to this:



Okay, all done now. Breathless. I am prepared to die now. Sorry about this.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #47)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:19 PM

50. Wow - I thought the cornfield was bad

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Response to jpak (Reply #50)


Response to jpak (Reply #50)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:31 PM

52. We'll move to Glennbeckistan and be safe. Ready to convert?

I'm not sure I can handle that particular version of reality, though. That's just me.



It might work for some of us. Since the Democrats favor this now. I never saw this coming, though. Really.

Wait, no, there's hope for us yet. The new map will look like this:



I feel so much better. I won't have to move.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #52)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:35 PM

55. Double Plus GOod!

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Response to jpak (Reply #55)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:38 PM

56. Hehehe! We get more water!

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Response to freshwest (Reply #56)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:45 PM

57. Hey - some of us Agenda 21ers don't like water



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Response to jpak (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:19 PM

5. He and Agent Mike both

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Response to jpak (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:42 PM

10. Not the tea party

They think it's the end of the world.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #10)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:30 PM

48. I posted your link somewhere in a couple of comments.

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Response to jpak (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:39 PM

27. +1

 

to agenda 21

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Response to kaboom15 (Reply #27)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:42 PM

28. Hooray! What's your favorite part?

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Response to kaboom15 (Reply #27)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:09 PM

33. cornfield

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Response to jpak (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:26 PM

34. OK, WTF

Can someone give a brief rundown on what Agenda 21 actually IS?

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Response to Puha Ekapi (Reply #34)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:31 PM

36. It's something Glenn Beck wrote for the UN

n/t

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Response to jpak (Reply #36)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:40 PM

40. And you started this thread...

...could explain exactly what it is you like and why?

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Response to Puha Ekapi (Reply #34)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:42 PM

42. Glenn Beck didn't write it. Here's a link

 

Agenda 21 is a non-binding, voluntarily implemented action plan of the United Nations with regard to sustainable development. It is a product of the UN Conference on Environment and Development (UNCED) held in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, in 1992. It is an action agenda for the UN, other multilateral organizations, and individual governments around the world that can be executed at local, national, and global levels. The "21" in Agenda 21 refers to the 21st century. It has been affirmed and modified at subsequent UN conferences.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agenda_21

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Response to jpak (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:39 PM

38. Sounds a lot like Brown 25...

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Response to WCGreen (Reply #38)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:44 PM

43. I've heard of that stuff!

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Response to jpak (Reply #43)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:31 PM

49. Well, I tried. Bye for now.

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Response to WCGreen (Reply #38)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:34 PM

54. Brown 25 is best packaged....

.... in a Groove Tube.

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Response to jpak (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:32 PM

53. I prefer Plan 9 ....

... From Outer Space.

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Response to jpak (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 01:21 AM

65. That site has some hilarious "Facts"

All 43 U.S. presidents have carried European royal bloodlines into office? 34 have been genetic descendants from just one person, Charlemagne, the brutal eighth century King of the Franks. 19 of them directly descended from King Edward III of England.


http://thenewalexandrialibrary.com/leftright.html

Charlemagne was crown in 800 AD. The number of his wives is in dispute, for the Catholic Church had NOT yet been able to impose Roman law as to marriage onto the Franks. Thus it is possible Charlemagne could have had up to four wives, all at the same time (but I have also read he had only one).

Anyway, if we start with 800 and assume a new generation every 25 years, even if he had only one two children who married and had only two children (but did not marry another descendant of Charlemagne), but 900 Charlemagne's gene is in at least 16 people (One for Charlemagne, in generation 825 two, then 850 Four, 875 Eight, 900 16).

In 925 his genes would be in 32 people, 950 in 64, 975 in 128, 1000 in 256, 1025 in 512, 1050 in 1024.

Thus by 1050 AD, over a 1000 people had the genes of Charlemagne in them (I will use 1000 as the base, for easier calculation).

Thus by 1075 you had 2000 people with Charlemagne's genes, 1100 you had 3000, 1125 you had 6000, 1150 you had 12,000, 1175 you had 24,000, 1200 you had 48,000, 1225 you had 96,000, 1250 you had 192,000, 1275 you had 386,000, by 1300 you had 568,000.

Again for ease of calculations I will start with 500,000 in 1300, 1 Million by 1325, 2 million by 1350, 4 million by 1375, 1400, 8 million, 1425 16 million, 1450 32 Million, 1475 64 million, 1500 128 million.

Again let me round down the number for ease of calculation, thus by 1500, Charlemagne would have had 100 million descendants, by 1525 200 million, 1550 hr would have had 400 million, by 1575 he would have had 800 million, by 1600 he would have had 1.6 billion descendants.

Most estimates says they was less then 1/2 billion people (or 500 Million people) in 1500, maybe 600 million by 1600, thus sometime in the 1500s Charlemagne could have been an ancestor of almost everyone who was alive.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population_estimates

Now, the above assume certain factors that could NOT have occurred, for example that none of Charlemagne's descendent's married any other descendants. That is probably impossible, most were marrying each other by 1000 if not 900 AD. On the other hand, the assumption of just two children per generation is also unsupportable. It also assumes people do not marry their cousins (A factor in "Christian Europe" but the norm outside of "Christian Europe", thus Latin America do not normally marry their cousins, while the people of Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan do).

Now, someone can make a comment that just because he had so many descendants by 1600, he could not have been the ancestor of everyone, might be true, the Pacific islanders were fairly isolated, as was Native Australians and most of the Native Americans in the New World.

On the other hand, you had enough people intermingling with those groups with people who intermingled with Western Europeans to make up for the lack of connections. Western Europeans were fishing the Grand Banks off New England by 1100, 500 years before Columbus crossed the Atlantic and "Discovered" the New World. With the exception of Easter Island, most Pacific islanders traded with each other and could get goods from as far away as China. Native Australian were more isolated, but even they had trade with people in present day Indonesia.

Easter Island, seems NOT to have any new people from its settlement around 300 AD (Some evidence points to 1200 AD) till a Dutch Ship landed on Easter Sunday 1722) and thus may NOT have any Charlemagne's DNA among its inhabitants in 1722.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Island

After 1600 the world became a much closer world and easier for people to have an ancestor who was NOT of their race. Thus it became even harder to NOT be a descendant of Charlemagne. Plus the numbers get even WORSE. By 750, you had about 750 Million people in the world, but you also had the possibility of 96 billion descendants. The World population is believe to have exceeded 1 billion by 1800, but by then 286 Billion possible descendants. By 1930 the population was finally over 2 billion, but Charlemagne could have had 8 trillion possible descendants. Today the world population is almost 7 billion, but Charlemagne has 32 billion possible descendants. Thus it is almost IMPOSSIBLE NOT TO BE A DESCENDANT OF CHARLEMAGNE today, so that 34 US President out of 43 can be traced to Charlemagne is more a product of someone able to find records then that our leaders are all interrelated.

The site is full of such nonsense, sounds "right" until you understand the actual subject matter being discussed.


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