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Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:36 AM

Nestle Group -"Access to Water Is Not Your Right"

This video is an example (if the close captioning is correct) of the extremist views held by corporations who hold a free market philosophy.

Access to water is not your right
believing you have a right to water - is an extreme belief
Water is a raw material and a "foodstuff" that should be
privatized and commercialized.

This video is an example of the extremist free market philosophy probably held by many of the corporations that belong to the American Legislative Exchange Council - your death means nothing compared to corporate profits. If this guy believes it - other corporations believe this for their raw materials also.

This is the first time I really truly understand what free market means to these people.
Free market means - it is okay for people to DIE as long as corporations can maintain high levels of revenues.

http://becauseican-2old2care.blogspot.com/2013/01/nestle-you-have-no-right-to-water.html

?t=2m

So, what say you? I say we stop BUYING their freaking water!

Arrowhead
Aqua Spring
Calistoga
Deer Park
Deep Spring
Ice Mountain
Glaciar
Klosterquelle
Nestle Wellness
Nestle Pure Life
Ozarka
Poland Spring
Perrier
S. Pellegrino
S. Barnardo
Water Line
Zephyrhills

196 replies, 22195 views

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Reply Nestle Group -"Access to Water Is Not Your Right" (Original post)
Oilwellian Jan 2013 OP
Bonobo Jan 2013 #1
patrice Jan 2013 #129
roguevalley Jan 2013 #159
orpupilofnature57 Jan 2013 #2
Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #5
CrispyQ Jan 2013 #34
Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #64
eggplant Jan 2013 #115
dorkulon Jan 2013 #121
eggplant Jan 2013 #123
dorkulon Jan 2013 #128
CrispyQ Jan 2013 #183
tblue Jan 2013 #66
Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #76
Maeve Jan 2013 #106
Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #109
RebelOne Jan 2013 #186
Bainbridge Bear Jan 2013 #10
bulloney Jan 2013 #70
awoke_in_2003 Jan 2013 #170
loudsue Jan 2013 #44
alberg Jan 2013 #72
teewrex Jan 2013 #75
ybbor Jan 2013 #90
KoKo Jan 2013 #156
Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #3
Ligyron Jan 2013 #119
tom_kelly Jan 2013 #164
NutmegYankee Jan 2013 #4
Oilwellian Jan 2013 #6
NutmegYankee Jan 2013 #7
Wednesdays Jan 2013 #11
billyclem Jan 2013 #113
freshwest Jan 2013 #162
NutmegYankee Jan 2013 #163
freshwest Jan 2013 #165
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #17
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superpatriotman Jan 2013 #84
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Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2013 #93
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valerief Jan 2013 #20
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Oilwellian Jan 2013 #122
Canoe52 Jan 2013 #100
alfredo Jan 2013 #104
Oilwellian Jan 2013 #126
alfredo Jan 2013 #134
Oilwellian Jan 2013 #127
Odin2005 Jan 2013 #108
Snarkoleptic Jan 2013 #112
Takket Jan 2013 #110
Fumesucker Jan 2013 #131
Oilwellian Jan 2013 #148
Takket Jan 2013 #154
TheGov97 Jan 2013 #111
War Horse Jan 2013 #114
FarCenter Jan 2013 #116
Matariki Jan 2013 #118
sendero Jan 2013 #130
WillyT Jan 2013 #120
Oilwellian Jan 2013 #149
Starry Messenger Jan 2013 #124
alfredo Jan 2013 #135
DhhD Jan 2013 #125
alfredo Jan 2013 #137
judesedit Jan 2013 #132
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nineteen50 Jan 2013 #133
Divine Discontent Jan 2013 #138
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brandonk Jan 2013 #146
ReRe Jan 2013 #150
Oilwellian Jan 2013 #187
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Champion Jack Jan 2013 #157
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kaboom15 Jan 2013 #160
GreenPartyVoter Jan 2013 #179
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savebigbird Jan 2013 #182
Third Doctor Jan 2013 #167
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LineReply .
blkmusclmachine Jan 2013 #171
the devil Jan 2013 #173
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otherone Jan 2013 #185
samsingh Jan 2013 #190
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Generic Other Aug 2013 #195
Generic Other Aug 2013 #196

Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:38 AM

1. Those assholes tried buying up land in Western Mass.

They were told to fuck off.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 04:40 PM

129. I have seen observations that the Kochs' most intense drive to power centers around the Great Lakes.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:37 PM

159. these ass hats don't get it. They are 1%. we are 99% with guns. I think it will be

straightened out in due time. They will regret sponsoring 2nd amendment shit. We can find them easily. They live in the big houses. They don't get it at all.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:41 AM

2. Yuppies in the 80's made it a Starbucks kinda thing .

My father used to scratch his head at the notion of people buying water .

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Response to orpupilofnature57 (Reply #2)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:51 AM

5. Here in south FL the water can be undrinkable.

The sulphur content in well water makes showering a misery, drinking it is unbearable. Where 'city' water comes from an aquifer the towns have a tendency to over chlorinate it, which has been linked to kidney stones.

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #5)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:34 AM

34. We have an inline water distiller for drinking & cooking water.

We put a water filter on our shower head, too, to filter chlorine. I don't know if it filters sulphur. Within a few weeks my scalp & skin were less itchy & my hair was softer.

How much water is there on, in, and above the Earth?

http://www.trueactivist.com/how-much-water-is-there-on-in-and-above-the-earth/



More than 70% of Earth’s surface is covered by ocean, with an average depth of just over two miles (a fairly shallow depth when compared to the diameter of our planet). But how much water is there really? In this illustration, the sphere on the left represents Earth with all of the water removed. The blue sphere to the right shows the approximate volume of all of Earth’s water. The tiny blue dot on the far right represents the available fresh water.

Another way to think of it is that if we represented the size of Earth with a basketball, all the water on the planet would fit into a ping pong ball and the available fresh water would be smaller than a popcorn kernel. Despite being such a water-rich planet, drinking water is one of our most precious resources.

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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #34)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:20 AM

64. Chlorine is rough on everything....

You would know if your water had a high concentration of sulphur....the smell of rotten eggs is unavoidable.

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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #34)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 03:10 PM

115. Yes, but since we only live on the surface, the analogy is false.

Why exactly is the diameter of the planet relevent here? Is it so we can say we "only" have two MILES of water depth? Let's see, what is the tpyical (average) height of our living space? I would say that, worldwide, it is easily less than ten FEET.

Let's stop the fear mongering and discuss this rationally, shall we?

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Response to eggplant (Reply #115)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 03:51 PM

121. How is it 'fear mongering' to promote a more accurate understanding

of just how much water there is on the planet? It's not an analogy; it's actually how much there is.

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Response to dorkulon (Reply #121)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 03:56 PM

123. Because it implies that there isn't very much water (oh noes!)...

...by using a false comparison.

Two miles deep water is a hell of a lot of water. That isn't changed by the fact that the volume of the planet is huge, and the comparison is foolish. It serves only to imply that we somehow don't have very much water on the planet, which is, frankly, absurd.

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Response to eggplant (Reply #123)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 04:18 PM

128. It doesn't imply a thing.

It shows you just how much there is. The planet's a big place, so yes, that's a lot of water. It is not unlimited, however.

Whether you think it's "a hell of a lot" or not, how does it hurt to know how much?

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Response to eggplant (Reply #115)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 11:45 AM

183. I consider it facing reality, not fear mongering.

Let's rationally discuss that our resources are finite & that we are living beyond sustainability. Let's discuss how we are poisoning the very habitat that supports us.

The tiny blue dot to the far right is the available fresh water. We are not recharging the Ogallala aquifer as quickly as we are withdrawing from it. At the current rate, it could be depleted within a few decades. I live 15 miles from a town that the oil companies want to frack under. That runoff goes into the Platte & eventually the Mississippi. Oh yeah, the great Mississippi, which is running dry.

Fresh water sources all around the globe are threatened. Alas, we will allow the corpos to do whatever they need to do, to extract one more penny of profit for next quarter's earnings report.

"We are consuming the ecosystem for the profit of a few."
~The Eleventh Hour

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #5)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:22 AM

66. Why so stupid???!

Wtf is wrong with south FL?! Who decides crap like that?! I'm so sorry, sweetie! They want you to buy bottled water, I guess? Infuriating. The number of states in this country I am pledging not to set foot in is growing by the day.

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Response to tblue (Reply #66)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:55 AM

76. Growth...

The 80s and 90s saw growth like you wouldn't believe. Portable classrooms were part of every school, widening streets and roads for decades, new streets cut.... There is no state income tax here and no real inheritance tax, which is why seniors find it so attractive. We moved here with our young family in 1987...following my in-laws. The kids loved it, bicycling, rollerblading, swimming, sailing etc all year long. Until Jeb Bush, FL had never elected a Republican governor to a second term, he was the first and now we've had 3. I blame the Democratic party here...it seems anemic, certainly at the state level.

My town has its own water utility and uses a fairly new reverse osmosis system, the water is delicious. But most of the towns in Palm Beach County get their water from one of several 'water companies' The reason for the over chlorination is the heat I believe. They must chlorinate the water after a rainfall to keep it safe. I can remember when Palm Beach Gardens water, from the tap, tested higher in chlorine than swimming pool water! A middle schooler did it for the science fair one year. He sampled water from several different towns in the county...awful.

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #76)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 02:38 PM

106. MIL lives down there--a new well was drilled for her community

and the sulfur is something fierce. She took it to the officials and was told "the health dept says it's okay." "Would YOU want to drink this?" "The health dept says it's okay."

She has had problems with dehydration and kidney issues because she doesn't feel she can afford bottled water (we got her a filtering pitcher and a supply of pitchers--much better, now!)

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Response to Maeve (Reply #106)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 02:43 PM

109. My son had a friend who lived in a community with only well water.

When he would go to spend the day he'd bring a gallon of water with him to drink and refused to shower until he got home again.

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #5)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 06:52 PM

186. Tell me about it. I lived there most of my life.

There was so much rust in the water that I had to use a special cleaner to get the rust out of my sinks and toilet. I live in North Georgia now and the water is almost as bad. No rust, but there is all kinds of slimy stuff.

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Response to orpupilofnature57 (Reply #2)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:01 AM

10. That reminds me of something

 

that Robin Williams did back then. He had a piece where he brings a plastic bottle up near his face and says in a yuppie-like voice - "Hello there, whenever I want to blow a dollar on a bottle of water, I drink Perrier." Of course, Perrier fell out of favor with the yups when they had that benzene scare and Evian became the new fave among the smug, upscale consumer set.

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Response to Bainbridge Bear (Reply #10)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:26 AM

70. And Evian spelled backwards is naive. Fitting, I guess.

I never can understand this craze with buying bottled water when you have access to free water at most public and office buildings. I'll carry around a bottle but I'll refill it hundreds of times before recycling it.

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Response to bulloney (Reply #70)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:57 PM

170. At least with Perrier...

itis mineral water- something most don't have access too. I enjoy it every once and a while.

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Response to orpupilofnature57 (Reply #2)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:47 AM

44. It's so much better for people than buying pepsi, coke, and other bottled soft drinks.

I've never understood people that failed to realize buying bottled water is much healthier than cokes.

I totally advocate taking a reusable bottle with you, but when you're driving in the car & get thirsty, how many of us used to stop and get a coke? Since the 80's we stop and get a bottle of good ole nice cold water instead.

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Response to orpupilofnature57 (Reply #2)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:36 AM

72. The essential question is: should human beings be denied access to potable water

unless they pay for it.

A few years ago, Bechtel attempted to take over the water rights of all Bolivian citizens going so far as to make the collection of rain water illegal. The citizens came together and protested until the agreement between the government and Bechtel was ended and the citizens got their water rights back.

"We know what they want. They want it all". - George Carlin

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Response to alberg (Reply #72)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:52 AM

75. I believe in Colorado it is still illegal to collect rain water

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Response to teewrex (Reply #75)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 12:37 PM

90. It's legal now

Been since 2009, but until then was a crime. Still illegal in Utah, tho.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/29/us/29rain.html?_r=0

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Response to alberg (Reply #72)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:54 PM

156. And...Remember the Bushies buying all that Land in Paraguay? AQUIFER!

That country has huge underground, untapped AQUIFER.... The BUSH FAMILY...Ahead of their Time in Profiting on Natural Resources....no matter which country or where. INVADE or BUY if the Country is too small to get the US FORCES IN. Besides in Paraguay they don't have to SHARE with the MIC!

Those Bushies are some SMART BUSINESS PEOPLE. "BUSHIE BOTTLES" coming to a SITE NEAR YOU SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE!

Convenience Stores, Trader Joes, Whole Foods and your Smarter Upscale Grocery Stores! EVEN COSTCO AND SAM'S CLUB + WALMART!

DRINK UP...but, it won't be CHEAP.

There are other sources if you GOOGLE...but, this is one with a link:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?8888-I-Now-KNOW-WHY-the-Bush-Family-bought-100-000-Acres-in-Paraguay-

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:47 AM

3. I've never bought any of those brands...

I used to have a reverse osmosis system under my kitchen sink...now I use a water filtering pitcher because my town has a reverse osmosis system and the water is the best I've tasted in south FL. When I was buying water (again, here in south FL in most towns, what comes out of the tap is horrible tasting) I bought Fiji.

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #3)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 03:36 PM

119. Yeah, one thing Fl doesn't have is good water


Mostly alkaline from bulk lime de-hardening and very chlorinated from the tap. South Fl. was bad, now I'm near Ocala and it's worse. Which is weird because world famous Silver Springs is located here. It used to be crystal clear - now with runoff from farms and pastures, it's slowly turning green along with many other world-class springs in the area.

Still nice to canoe and swim in.

When I was a kid in South Florida we had a 60ft well for the sprinkler system and the water turned everything orange from all the iron in it.

I eventually moved west of town and we drilled 120 ft into the second aquifer where the water is sulfur laden, like you said. Water the grass and it smelled like rotten eggs. Undrinkable, IMHO but the plants sure seemed to like it. Can't imagine using it for potable water tho. Good RO systems that actually work are quite expensive.

Now I buy RO water from the corporate criminal Walmart. Feel guilty about it but I have to drink a lot of water so...

Still, all that plastic and stuff. Hmmm...

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Response to Ligyron (Reply #119)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:35 PM

164. Tampa

I drink the tap water here in Tampa. It tastes fine as far as I'm concerned - I either don't have a good taste or Mayor Buckhorn (D) is doing his job. I suspect the latter.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:47 AM

4. If access to water isn't a right, then let's limit their access to air.

Corporate fucks.

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Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #4)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:51 AM

6. If only there were a way...

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Response to Oilwellian (Reply #6)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:53 AM

7. jail 'em.

And make them work for their allotment of fresh air.

Seriously though, I really despise this movement to privatize and sell back everything we depend on that was once communal. It disgusts me.

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Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #7)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:02 AM

11. It started with the notion of pay toilets

Next will be pay drinking fountains. 50 cents for a five-second flow of water.

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Response to Wednesdays (Reply #11)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 02:57 PM

113. Pay toilets have been around for a very long time,

they were instituted by the Roman Emperor Vespasian sometime in the 70's CE. The good news is he didn't use the funds to feed his ego; rather, he spent for the common good. He was the first emperor to actually pay teachers, what a novel concept.

Maybe it would do the corporations some good to read a little ancient history.

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Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #7)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:54 PM

162. +1,000. Privatization is the new Apartheid. The Rich will live, the Poor will die.

But not before losing every other thing that made their lives worth living, so they won't fuss much and bother their betters...

But we just had to get rid of that Statist government oppressing us with rules, regulations and taxes. Taxes are bad!

Taxes re-distribute the wealth squeezed from the many into the hands of the few, and gives it back to the many. Which is theft, you know.

Paying taxes can be avoided. Paying for food, water and a place to stand and sit and sleep, cannot be avoided. Those are taxes we pay the private sector everyday and think nothing of it, as we have been taught they are different. They are different by name only, not function.

Libertarians want the free market to rule to get the government off their backs, so they can rule you more directly. Get rid of the middle man, the organization that keeps them off your back, just pay the Man, no rules apply!



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Response to freshwest (Reply #162)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:02 PM

163. And the sad fact is the taxes would be less than the "market" price.

These people pushing privatization have been able to convince people that they would be better off financially with it. And yet, in just about every case, the price explodes. Municipal water and electricity prices in Conn. are over 25% less than that the private water suppliers and CL&P can provide. We have that boondoggle called "deregulated" electricity.

But it's that "the private market can do it better bullshit" that is so damn hard to convince people to abandon. It's like a freaking religion!
I have no issue on taxes that provides service or social justice. Probably why I live in a very high tax state by choice.

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Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #163)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:40 PM

165. It is a religion. Capitalism is faith based and has more followers than any other brand. Really.

It is much more powerful than the fear of eternal punishment because the fear of not having the means to live surpass the old fears of hell or hopes of heaven. Not that they don't use that to make sure the walls close in even faster.

What you say about cost and lack of accountability. You are preaching to the choir with me - but it's anathema to speak ill of the private sector. Even in a blue state, homage must be paid to the gods of the privateers, Nordquist.

All who speak in favor of public sector are intimidated. The meme is overwhelming. Obama has tried repeatedly to get the message through and been rebuffed.

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Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #4)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:15 AM

17. Not a great comparison. It costs nothing to deliver air to you.

Delivering clean water to you costs money.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #17)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:22 AM

21. Clean air costs money too

Look at the smog control equipment on cars, scrubbers on stacks, etc

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Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #21)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:27 AM

26. No, that's different.

We require those industries that pollute the air to install pollution control. We do the same for discharge of water.

However, drinking water most often needs to be treated before delivery, particular on a community basis. That water could be ground water that has never been part of an industrial process or impacted by humans in any way, but it is still possible (likely!) that treatment is required. $$

The real question becomes, "What level of privatization is acceptable for drinking water treatment?"

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Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #21)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 12:21 PM

84. Not far off, probably...

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Response to superpatriotman (Reply #84)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 06:51 PM

152. Yup.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #17)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 12:58 PM

93. Trust me, someone sat down and calculated the amount of air the human body uses in a lifetime,...

....and proposed that said human being should be in debt for it. To THEM.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #93)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 01:09 PM

96. No doubt.

My check is in the mail.

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Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #4)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:20 AM

20. A face pillow for each one of 'em. nt

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:56 AM

8. Tyranny doesn't just come from governments

Though they may facilitate.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:58 AM

9. Where did he get that creepy looking human costume?

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Response to RandiFan1290 (Reply #9)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:36 AM

36. Right? His eyes look painted on

I think it's because the eyes are the windows to the soul. Those without souls, paint on false window views.

Or maybe it's just that he's such a fucking villain that I don't mind dragging his face through the mud, so to speak.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:06 AM

12. Somebody has to build an infrastructure to deliver drinking water and take care of sewage. It costs.

I am not going to defend Nestle because I know nothing about them. BUT, any company with a contract to deliver water needs to get paid. The local government established the financial relationship with the company; if the locals have a problem with the arrangement, then changes need to be made. However, it is ridiculous to think that the company should not get a return on its investment.

That being said, bottled water is more expensive than gasoline, and the water you get from your tap in any municipality is safe to drink. Bottled water is not more safe to drink than tap water.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #12)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:41 AM

40. What you describe...

used to be called "public utilities." Privatizing those utilities reduces the ability of governments to regulate corporate activity; and they are exporting water to sell
for a profit. Would you support Nestles buying your local public utility, doubling your water bill and at the same time, sell part of your supply to another country?

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Response to Oilwellian (Reply #40)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:47 AM

43. Privatization of public utilities covers a broad spectrum.

Just considering water treatment for drinking water: some local governments run it completely, some sell it completely to private enterprises giving them total control, and there are variations at every point between.

The dude in the video seems to want total control. I don't favor that.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #12)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:09 AM

52. Yes. The taxpayers of my state and county paid.

Some of Nestles' aquifers are located in my county. The ones I know about are in a rural area accessed by state and county roads. Once they built the aquifers, their cost was minimal. Those aquifers provided 0 local jobs (that I know of).

They just take the water and drive their 100k pound trucks in and out of the area, day and night, to their bottling plant/distribution center. That bottling/distribution center is a couple of hours away from here, so is of minimal value to us job-wise. But the roads take a pounding.

As far as the water treatment aspect that you mentioned in a different post... I don't know what they do at the site(s) of their other aquifers, but the ones around here are unlikely to require 'treatment'. I think they just extract it from the ground just as we do w/our wells, and test it evey now and then. Water test kits are quite inexpensive for homeowners, so I imagine it's barely a thought for them.

If the local government benefits at all, I don't see how. Oh, and btw, the locals did have a problem w/this arrangement, but they somehow managed to prevail anyway.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #12)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 01:35 PM

97. None of that has to do with any need for them to own the water. Pay for the service? Sure.

I think that all water delivery and sewage should be socialized anyway but if it isn't then the resource still belongs to the people and the companies are paid for the privilege of servicing the needs of the community as a utility.

Water is life, a threat to the water is existential in nature and control of it is treated as a sacred stewardship or it is tyranny. It is a sin to be treated as owned by a person. It might be your private pool, pond, storage tank, or lake but the water is all life's, you are just borrowing a bit and must pass it on.

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Response to TheKentuckian (Reply #97)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 01:43 PM

98. It's a philosophical difference.

The guy in the video says that there are only two views -- privatization of water (in his meaning, his company owns the water) and not privatized. He claims that "not privatized" is an extreme view. Actually, he's full of crap on this. There are many options for various degrees of privatization going all the water to complete public ownership to complete private ownership with lots and lots in between. Providing the service without owning the water (as you mentioned) is a very common one.

The kicker is in how it's all done. If privatization gives the company the power to deny water to entire neighborhoods or individuals and, as such, threatens their lives, then this is very wrong.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:06 AM

13. If they could find a way to meter how much air they breathed

they'd charge us for air and claim that wasn't a right either.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #13)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:13 AM

15. If the air became so polluted that it was dangerous to breathe ...

... and a company developed a process to clean the air, should that company be forced to give the technology away with no compensation?

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #15)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:16 AM

19. They could sell the technology to the government

Air and water access should be publicly held, not privately held IMO.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #19)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:24 AM

22. Agreed! Same thing with water systems?

If a company is contracted to build or operate a water delivery system, shouldn't they be compensated? I think we agree they should.

The question becomes should water be totally privatized such that the private entity owns the system entirely and has the right to deny service. I see a role for private industry in the water delivery, but not total ownership.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #22)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:26 AM

23. As long as it was overseen

However I don't think anyone should be denied access for lack of money, so I'm not sure if we agree completely. I don't know how that would be handled, whether the government would pay the private company for that or what. I just don't think anyone should die of thirst because they don't have money for water.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #23)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:30 AM

29. Left on their own to make decisions, private companies may deny service due to lack of payment.

And people die.

In large cities in the Midwest, for example, the cities make efforts to not turn off the heat or electricity due to lack of payment if the denial of service could be life threatening. Some level of humanity needs to be invoked.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #29)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:31 AM

30. Exactly!

We are on the same page it sounds like.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #15)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 12:13 PM

81. I would say that that depends on who polluted the air in the first place.....

Whoever did the polluting should be the one responsible for paying for the cleanup. At least in a market system.

You could always get rid of the market system (at least for big stuff) and we could ALL pay for the cleanup by confiscating the wealth of the ones who polluted.

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Response to socialist_n_TN (Reply #81)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 12:25 PM

87. Interesting post!

I'd like to start by saying that you seem to be consistent in your socialist views. We differ, but that's okay. I think I can learn a lot from you.

I fully agree that those responsible for polluting need to be 1) forced to quit polluting immediately; 2) given the complete responsibility for ensuring that, when they resume operations, they are no longer polluting; 3) fined. In reality, this isn't far from the mechanism in place with EPA today -- at least in principle and practice with some polluters.

However, I find the free market (when properly regulated and watched) is a primary driver for a lot of progress. I'm not ready to abandon it.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #87)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 12:55 PM

91. Long time Marxist and fundamental Bolsheviki here......

so I should be consistent in my views.

And as a Marxist, I don't disagree about the market and, by extension, capitalism being the primary driver for progress. At least for the last few centuries. Even Marx and Engels held to the position that capitalism was a progressive system when compared to slave culture and feudalism. The problem with capitalism comes when it has outlived it usefulness AS a progressive system and begins to consistently do more harm for the masses than good. That point passed a while ago.

You're example actually proves the point. Capitalism and the market have taken economic power and bought political power to the point where even regulation isn't effective in combating the outrages. A slap on the wrist, which is all that most regulations require, is merely a cost of doing business. AND THIS IS THE PROBLEM WITH "REGULATING" CAPITALISM. By it's nature the system will attempt to throw off any regulations put on it because it interferes with the free operation of the system. In this instance, I actually agree with the free marketers. I don't, however, agree with their expected outcomes.

I equate regulating capitalism with riding a tiger. It's VERY difficult to do and you're ALWAYS in danger of being eaten.

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Response to socialist_n_TN (Reply #91)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 01:08 PM

94. Great stuff.

There are few times in my cyberlife that I have run into someone I am sure I would enjoy talking with IRL for hours on end...

Anyway, I don't disagree with your wary assessment of trying to regulate capitalism and its enterprises. However, I have been encouraged when I see it work. I was doing environmental consulting with an enormous industry, one that anyone would deem "critical". They have a history of throwing their corporate weight around, but they also seem to have a conscience. My contact in the industry was driving me around the grounds as we were trying to solve a problem of theirs, and she was bemoaning the fact that EPA kept shutting them down for particulate emissions. Not belching mass quantities of black smoke, but allowing micron-sized particles to become fugitive emissions and cross their property boundary. And, EPA would literally shut them down whenever this happened. Although sympathetic for my friend's plight of having the big bosses breathing fire whenever this happened, I was encouraged that the system was working.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #94)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 03:34 PM

117. Let me add a bit about micron sized particles

At first glance shutting down a facility due to the presence of micron sized particles might seem an over reaction; but, depending on the hazard involved it is not. Each hazardous material will have an AMAD (activity median aerodynamic diameter) applied to it. This is the size or size range for which lung deposition is maximum and a concentration limit for particles of this size will apply with specific action to be taken if exceeded. The limit is applied at the site boundary and might be as strict as none detectable.

The bosses might breathe fire due to a shutdown, imagine the blaze that occurs with a large EPA fine.

Why can't this type of monitoring and control be applied to the social damage caused by business, not just hazardous material?

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Response to billyclem (Reply #117)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 06:15 PM

147. Not an engineer, so let me see if I can sum this up.......

in language an idiot like me can understand. It depends on the makeup of the micron and the damage it could possibly do. Is that a correct, if rough, summation?

To answer your last question, it's only the most obvious problems that are monitored and controlled. You see the immediate damages caused by hazardous materials. Social issues usually have several causes that are interrelated, which makes it harder to assign blame and, hence, harder to monitor and control. And when you have a system that ENCOURAGES these damages in the name of a higher rate of profit AND has the power to control the regulations put upon it, then you have a system where there are less and less monitoring and control.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:13 AM

14. Taking the plot off the original Total Recall hugh

cept in that case it's air. bottled air anyone?

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:14 AM

16. Back in the 70s

Nestle was infamous for sending sales promoters masquerading as nurses to tell poor mothers in the third world that breast milk was unhealthy and they should use Nestle's powdered milk formula instead. They failed to tell them that they needed clean water to make the formula. They killed lots of kids. I guess that's how they balance nature. Their newest emerging market for this practice is apparently China. These fuckers are not your run of the mill greedy corporatists. They are evil. Knowingly buying their products is like doing business with the Devil.

http://www.businessinsider.com/nestles-infant-formula-scandal-2012-6?op=1

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Response to sulphurdunn (Reply #16)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:40 AM

39. Yeah, good ole Nestle! Happy to see someone else remembers this history. Thanks. nt

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Response to mountain grammy (Reply #39)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 02:30 PM

102. I remember that - many churches boycotted

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1842&dat=19840211&id=O3koAAAAIBAJ&sjid=QcgEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5022,2135053

There was a huge grassroots boycott by United Methodist churches and agencies, though the "Church" itself declined to formally boycott, as I recall. I grew up UM and recall our minister talking about it. Lots of people in our church disappointed with the UM leaders for not formally endorsing the boycott.

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Response to sulphurdunn (Reply #16)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:28 PM

153. NOW Nestlé is infiltrating US cities by paying money

to opportunistic politicians like Newark' Cory Booker (D-Media Whore) to "fight obesity."
I think it is a tie between Nestlé and Mansanto for Number One Evil Bastards. Nestle's leadership is notoriously antisocial and aggressively dickish

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:15 AM

18. Find out how many are using a public or municipal water source....

you'd be surprised. It would be foolish to believe they owned every wather source.

How many Poland Springs do you think exist?

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Response to Historic NY (Reply #18)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:33 AM

32. You're talking about bottled water, right?

A huge fraction of bottled water is merely tap water packaged in fossil-fuel derived plastic bottles. Not exactly a sustainable concept.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #32)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:11 AM

56. Yes, Exactly...

we have a few near by they get there from a muncipal owed well.

I think our brewery has/had local water trucked in that is processed to remove chlorine etc. although they now may have their own filitering systems in place.

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Response to Historic NY (Reply #56)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:15 AM

59. It's true that chlorine can screw things up.

I have no doubt it's bad for brewing. It's also bad for aquatic pets (fish, turtles, etc).

Otherwise, tap water is just fine.

(An activated carbon filter takes out chlorine)

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:26 AM

24. I have an answer to these corporate monsters:

<a href=".html" target="_blank"><img src="" border="0" alt="Photobucket"/></a>

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #24)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:34 AM

33. I'll be right back with the pitchforks to help

water is a very basic right. shamefulgreedyslime

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Response to irisblue (Reply #33)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 01:21 PM

193. I think they deserve to suffer what they intend to inflict

How long does it take to die of thirst? 3-5 days? Sounds like it wouldn't take long at all to covert this evil man. How many days before he would trade his entire fortune for a drink?

What an evil dick. Worse piece of slime.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:27 AM

25. Buying water never made any sense in the first place.

No argument can be stronger against buying water than the original: YOU ARE PAYING FOR WATER, DUMBASS.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:28 AM

27. Or even better, try to get people not to join with hands with them by investing in Wall St.

Of course, that is if they would prefer to see a healthy planet with less suffering and mass extinction of animal species be a byproduct of their existence.
Some people like the idea of the planet suffering because of them. Ten out of ten assholes agree, investing in death is good for me.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:28 AM

28. For the apologist for the capitalist system.............

(and yes, I realize that's most on this board ), I present the logical end result of that system.

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Response to socialist_n_TN (Reply #28)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:31 AM

31. And what might that be?

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #31)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:39 AM

38. If you need to be told...

... you wouldn't comprehend it anyway. If you don't really need told, but are just playing ignorant (willfully), you are part of the problem.

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #38)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:43 AM

41. (oh! it's a secret!)

Let me guess. Judging by the attitude you just demonstrated, I'm guess that the "logical end"of the capitalist system would be one or more of the following:

- the end of the world
- the enslavement of humanity
- endless war
- legalized rape
- the overturning of Roe v Wade
- dogs and cats living together

Am I close?

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #41)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:45 AM

42. close? Not even.

But you are fucking ridiculous.

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #42)


Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #45)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:09 AM

51. Hint: watch the video

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Response to MNBrewer (Reply #51)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:11 AM

54. I watched the whole thing.

Why is it impossible for the person I asked a legit question to answer and, similarly, why is it impossible for the usual cast of clowns to shut the fuck up until I get an answer?

On edit: Okay. I now have an answer. Thanks to all of you who felt obligated to shit in the well while the answer was coming.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #54)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:15 AM

60. yes, if you watched the video, you have your answer

socialist_n_TN was saying that the proposition that clean drinking water isn't a right, but rather needs to be monitized is one of the ultimate outcomes of capitalism.

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Response to MNBrewer (Reply #60)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:24 AM

67. socialist_n_TN is quite capable of expressing his/her own opinion.

And did!

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #67)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 06:36 PM

151. The person in post #28 didn't seem to think so

As they asked "And what might that be?", as though they didn't understand and needed some more information.

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Response to MNBrewer (Reply #60)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 12:02 PM

78. Yep that's it in a nutshell MN.....

Of course it's not just water. It's pretty much EVERYTHING that needs to be monetized and commercialized and consumerized in the capitalist system.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #45)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:31 AM

71. I guess only...

... capitalists are allowed to be snarky, eh?

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #41)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:06 AM

48. OK, I'll play....

Per the rules of capitalism:

the end of the world: If taking care of the planet interferes with making profit, then taking care of the planet will NOT be a priority. If the world ends, it ends, but profit is sacrosanct.

the enslavement of humanity: The owners make the rules as to who can work and how much they can be paid. That's freedom. If you don't like it you're free too. Free to starve.

endless war: The resources of the entire world are needed to fuel capitalist expansion. Because these resources are running out globally, then it's the right and responsibility of capitalism to TAKE those resources wherever they might happen to be. If the natives don't like it, then our toadies in the MIC will take it by force. And of course eventually as the resources get even MORE scarce, the various pieces of the private sector will fight each OTHER for those resources. And people say there's no continuing employment in the private sector.

legalized rape: Only in the war zones where capitalism is taking resources. Or in the militaries that have both sexes. Hey it's one of the perks of fighting FOR the capitalist system.

the overturning of RvW: Of course. We need every woman, able bodied or not, making babies for the war machine that protects capitalism. And if you can't fight, well you can work. And if you can't fight or work? Well, then you can die quickly you useless eater.

dogs and cats living together: Capitalism doesn't care UNLESS it's a convenient wedge issue to separate the working class. THEN it will become an abhorrent sin.

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Response to socialist_n_TN (Reply #48)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:13 AM

57. Ok. I was pretty close.

Thanks for the answer.

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #38)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:16 AM

61. being cryptic isn't clever

It's passive aggressive and annoying as hell.

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Response to BlancheSplanchnik (Reply #61)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 12:07 PM

79. Sorry it you considered my first answer cryptic........

Response #48 is perhaps a little LESS cryptic.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:35 AM

35. Free marketers always factor out revolution out of their economic formulas.

They do so at their own peril.

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #35)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 12:28 AM

172. How would a revolution help? nm

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #172)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 01:03 AM

174. Oh. I imagine if they privatized water, an essential element for survival, it would just happen

as a natural consequence of shortages.

Free marketers don't factor in many disastrous consequences and human hardships into their formulas. It's as if they're socio-paths.

I'm not condoning revolution. I'm just factoring in a very real consequence of their actions.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:38 AM

37. Thanks. I never buy bottled water but I will take care to avoid Nestle products.

 

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Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #37)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 01:29 PM

194. Nestle also makes lower-grade candy bars.

Will make sure no Nestle products accidentally slip into my house. Even looking at their shitty brand of candies, it's all adulterated crap made of compound chocolate as per:

Compound chocolate is a less-expensive chocolate product replacement made from a combination of cocoa, vegetable fat, and sweeteners. It may also be known as "compound coating", or chocolatey coating when used as a coating for candy.

Often used in lower-grade candy bars, compound chocolate is designed to simulate enrobed chocolate on a product. It costs less than chocolate, as it uses less expensive hard vegetable fats and tropical fats such as coconut oil and palm kernel oil in place of the more expensive cocoa butter as its fat source.


Nestle makes Butterfinger and Baby Ruth both lower-grade candy bars made of cheap ass chocolate. Also GMO tainted.

Butterfinger was withdrawn from the German market in 1999 due to consumer rejection when it was one of the first products to be labeled as containing genetically modified ingredients from corn.


Did anyone catch the fact that he said we Americans have been being fed GMOs for years and we are not getting sick? Oh really? Scum.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:53 AM

46. In Colorado, we have water and sewer "districts."

These are quasi municipalities that have the power to tax and charge fees. They are overseen by an elected board, or a board appointed by an elected official. Appointed members are often political payoffs. Where I live the board is elected but nobody really cares or knows who they are. We pay fees that have more than doubled over the last ten years and also pay a district tax as part of our property taxes. Is it all too expensive? Well, it probably is, but I know for a fact if a private corporation was running things it would be a lot more and we wouldn't have access to public meetings or any say at all in the operations of the districts. We are blessed with delicious Rocky Mountain spring water right out of our tap. Very minimal treatment.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:02 AM

47. Wow. One rarely sees such unctuous evil on display

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Response to MNBrewer (Reply #47)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:18 AM

63. But he presents it so well.....

The Eichmann Syndrome.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:06 AM

49. "free market" means free of rules, regulations, oversight and free of rights on your part

it is one of the biggest bullshit lies people have bought into.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:08 AM

50. Part of this Nestle debate is related to formula

Nestle does heavy marketing to pregnant moms, including in developing areas without much clean water. So then fewer moms breastfeed, and more moms buy Nestle formulas, but the issue is that they need clean water to mix with the formula. Lots of babies get formula mixed with dirty water, and end up getting sick.

Nestle has a lot of issues and has been boycotted among those interested in breastfeeding for a long time.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #50)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 02:38 PM

105. Also, it is expensive so the mother has to dilute the formula to make it last.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:09 AM

53. I NEVER buy water.

Water is a necessity for life.
Here in the US, I thought we had the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?!

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:11 AM

55. I buy the store brand

For quake supplies and to take to the back country. Otherwise...municipal water system is fine by me.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #55)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:15 AM

58. I do too and for my fish tanks...

and usually at the holidays when there are lots of people as the house.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:18 AM

62. Nestle Group -"Access to Water Is Not Your Right"

But Nestle seems to think it's their right. There's a of info at this link and it lays bare their rotten business practices.
http://stopnestlewaters.org/communities/mecosta-county-mi

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:20 AM

65. No bottled water,

we installed a pay-for-itself-system http://www.freedrinkingwater.com/ .
Tastes great, tests great and people, pets and plants can all drink the same.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:25 AM

68. Mega-corporations are a threat to liberty.

They will charge us for 'clean air in a can' one day, bank on it!

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:25 AM

69. German is such a romantic sounding lanuage.

It fits perfectly with the notion that human beings have no right to water (unless the piper is paid, of course).

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Response to secondvariety (Reply #69)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 12:18 PM

83. Sounds fine to me.

But then, German is my first language.
It appears that this video is the work of a German organization that takes as much umbrage with this guy's opinion as all of us here do. Thank goodness we judge people by the content of their hearts and not the sound of their accents.

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Response to Ednahilda (Reply #83)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 12:30 PM

89. +100

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:40 AM

73. Corps bought up riverbeds in a couple of northern states and the court upheld it. locals very upset

mining and fracking takes millions of gallons of water, when corps own all the riverbeds they can profit from water sales to us and to industries.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:50 AM

74. George Carlin said it best...

When contemplating those who tote plastic water bottles around with them, he remarked:
"Just get a drink before you leave the house!"

I will always love George Carlin.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 12:00 PM

77. Water is life. Idle no more. Check "Hydraulic Empire" on wikipedia.org.

 

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 12:09 PM

80. Corporate existence isn't a right

But access to water is. It is part of the commons, like sunlight and air. We choose to pay some of us to pump it out of the ground and pipe it to our homes. We choose to pay others to put it in convenient (but environmentally unsound) bottles for us.

Only truly evil men see it differently.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 12:13 PM

82. Going back 15,000 years or more

 

tribes, city-states, and nations have gone to war over access to water. That, and food, are two things people WILL rise up and fight for. Trying to take away people's access to water could bring about some nasty consequences.

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Response to Speck Tater (Reply #82)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 02:26 PM

101. So it's not really a right

It's who wins the fight. As is always the case, might makes right. Once you figure out who makes the rules, then you figure out who has a right to something. But then there's always another fight around the corner at some point.

Same with pests on a farm, for example. Those insects and rodents have as much right to the food grown there as we do, but we try to exterminate them if they eat it, even though they're just trying to survive. Just because you need something to live doesn't mean you get it.

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Response to The2ndWheel (Reply #101)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 02:33 PM

103. If 1000 people need water and there's only enough for 10 of them

 

which 10 have the "right" to the water?

As long as there's enough to go around then everybody should have the right to it.

But when there isn't enough to go around, trouble ALWAYS follows, because some people are not going to get what they need.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 12:22 PM

85. I don't buy ANY bottled water. BTW if you use a tap filter, the water is delicious, cheaper, safer?

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Response to joanbarnes (Reply #85)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 02:39 PM

107. Much of the bottled water is tap water.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 12:24 PM

86. Water is necessary.

I have stayed away from Nestle for 30 years. They are pirates. Water keeps their consumers alive!

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 12:29 PM

88. Thank You

Thank you for the names of water bottle people connected/owned by Nestle. Appreciate this.

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Response to oldandhappy (Reply #88)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:40 PM

155. If you want to avoid Nestlé

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 12:55 PM

92. At one point they actually considered a way of metering solid waste flushed....

They never were able to come up with a way of doing it but just the mindset of having people pay to take a dump tells you they are insane with greed.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 01:08 PM

95. If you grew up on a Great Lake, like I did, you know its OUR water (yours and mine), not Nestle's.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 02:03 PM

99. This video caused a huge argument between me and the Missus.

While she agrees that water is a human right, she also believes the following:

1) That since this guy comes from Germany, where they have a good social safety net and people aren't batshit insane, he must be just misunderstood. He's a good guy who wants to help people, because that's what you DO in Europe.

2) He's saying that water as a human right is an extreme end of the spectrum of ideas. He did not actually say that water is not a human right.

3) Yes, water does have a market value because a few places on Earth don't have access to water, and thus this basic human right can be bought and sold.

Now the air in the room is very cold.

(Incidentally, I asked her to watch the video because she speaks German and I wanted her to confirm the accuracy of the translation subtitles. They are indeed accurate.)

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Response to Chichiri (Reply #99)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 03:55 PM

122. Thank you for verifying the translation

That has been nagging at me all day.

Sorry the video created a stir. Perhaps your wife should review what the WTO and private corporations have done to communities in Central and South America, where they've had to sell their public water systems as a means to repay their country's debts. It's much more difficult to hold a private corporation accountable for this most basic of needs, instead of elected officials who will be replaced if they try to fleece them.

I will agree there is a market for bottled water in the more remote places on earth. But I don't believe corporations have the right to tap into the aquifers we rely on for sustenance, freely, all in the name of profit. Especially with it becoming an even more precious commodity. Fracking alone uses millions of gallons of water. Is it really in our long term interest to allow them to deplete our water sources, so they can profit? This really is a moral issue that should be in the realm of public discussion.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 02:24 PM

100. Thanks for the info

For our christmas we got ourselves stainless steel water bottles, no more buying water in plastic bottles for us!

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 02:36 PM

104. The water speculators in the third world has put up fences and posted guards by ponds and streams

long used by herders and farmers. If they want water they have to buy bottled water. In some cases they have been able to make the collection of rain water illegal.


http://www.amazon.com/Water-Wars-Privatization-Pollution-Profit/dp/089608650X

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Response to alfredo (Reply #104)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 04:06 PM

126. That reminds me of...

Monsanto patenting indigenous seeds all around the world, and then forcing local farmers to buy them, rather than having any further rights to plant the seeds they used to collect from their own harvests. I remember a story surfaced just weeks after we invaded Iraq. Monsanto and Cargill sent their representatives within weeks of the invasion, to set up the system that now forces Iraqi farmers to buy their seeds.

Corporations have no conscience.

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Response to Oilwellian (Reply #126)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 04:54 PM

134. And they know that pollen travels, so they can sue farmers downwind if they can find any patented

genes in their plants.


Saving seed is considered theft by Monsanto. In India there was a spate of suicides by farmers who had to buy Monsanto seed or was accused of saving seeds.

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Response to alfredo (Reply #104)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 04:07 PM

127. Disgusting n/t

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 02:41 PM

108. Capitalism = the rationalization of psychopathic behavior.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #108)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 02:54 PM

112. Right!

Those who would support the privatization (read: profitization) of public water supplies should ask themselves one question.
What value do private water companies add to the current system?

All they do is suck up local resources using very little in local labor while shifting their profits out of the community (to Switzerland, in the case of Nestle').

Here's a classic example of this sort of exploitation...
http://www.alternet.org/story/16044/bottled_water_blues

So in 2001 Perrier, which has since been bought by Nestle Waters North America, was welcomed with open arms by then-Michigan Gov. John Engler, who allowed the company to open up a plant for a licensing fee of less than $100 per year and offered millions in tax breaks to boot.

Construction started on the plant even before all the necessary permits had been obtained. For the past year and a half, the plant has been pumping 100 to 300 gallons per minute out of an aquifer on a hunting preserve in Mecosta County and piping the water 11 miles away to a bottling plant in Stanwood, where it is prepared for shipping and sale around the Midwest as Nestle's Ice Mountain brand.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 02:47 PM

110. What am I missing here? All water is sold for a price already. nt

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Response to Takket (Reply #110)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 04:46 PM

131. I'm on a well, no cost for water here

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Response to Takket (Reply #110)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 06:19 PM

148. I live in the boonies and draw from a well

The only expense for us is replacing the pump and the electrical cost to run it. Most urban dwellers pay their city (elected officials) for water and sewage services. What would you do if Walmart bought out your public utility service and doubled the price you pay for water and sewage? Let's say they also decided to draw from your city's water source, bottled it up, and sold it for a profit. How would you stop that from happening, and I suspect most people would want to, as fresh water becomes more scarce? Get the picture?

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Response to Oilwellian (Reply #148)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:31 PM

154. oh yeah, forgot all about wells lol

I pay about $30 a month for my water and sewage. practically nothing compared to my other expenses. i would not want it being run by walmart!!!!

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 02:49 PM

111. Screw Nestle

 

It's my water and I'll drink it all I want

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 03:08 PM

114. The subtitles, while weirdly implemented

are correctly translated, FWIW. My German is rusty, but not *that* rusty. It's a correct account of what was said.

Scary stuff, indeed.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 03:21 PM

116. Water costs me about $30 for 2500 gallons each month.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 03:36 PM

118. Someone needs to let him know that continuing to live isn't necessarily *HIS* right.

There might come a time when PEOPLE get tired enough of shit like this...

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Response to Matariki (Reply #118)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 04:44 PM

130. My thoughts ..

... exactly. These fuckers really need to learn boundaries or the rest of us are not.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 03:39 PM

120. Psst... Hey Nestle Group !!! - FUCK YOU !!!





& Rec !!!

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Response to WillyT (Reply #120)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 06:24 PM

149. LOL WillyT...tell it! n/t

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 03:58 PM

124. There are places in the world where you have to have a prepaid card to pump water.

It's evil. No money on the card, no water.

I remember 10 years ago when I started hearing that the rush for a monopoly on water was going to be bigger than the oil grabs. Coca-Cola was also notorious, they deeply tapped into the water table in India. Huge protests finally got them shut down in one area, I don't know if they've moved on to another place there.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #124)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 04:59 PM

135. Bectel got kicked out of Bolivia because it's hard line on the people. They were even

going after people who saved rain water.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 03:58 PM

125. Next we will hear that they own the air and if we do not pay, we can expect to have a bag put over

Last edited Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:28 PM - Edit history (1)

our head to keep us from breathing THEIR air.

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Response to DhhD (Reply #125)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 05:02 PM

137. They don't own the sun and that's why solar energy has been so slow being deployed.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 04:46 PM

132. Nestle is pumping our Great Lakes dry and sending the water to China. Bet you didn't know that.

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Response to judesedit (Reply #132)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 05:01 PM

136. Any source material on that?

Americans have been drinking Canada Dry too.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 04:50 PM

133. Capitalism

reduces everything to a resource and will devour everything finishing off by devouring itself.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 05:18 PM

138. yep. this has to STOPPPPPPPPPPPP

They need stopped by our govt. They cannot gain access to literally a mass amount of water sources, then say, "oh, you need clean fresh water like the other 7.5 BILLION other people? That's $10 a gallon, thanks!"

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Response to Divine Discontent (Reply #138)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 05:58 PM

143. Our government? Why our government?

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 05:26 PM

139. Los Angeles city water is great, yet the idiots who live here insist on BUYING water.

What fools.

Our municipal water company sends us an annual report on the safety of our water. Do any of the bottled water companies send you annual reports on the safety of their water?

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Response to farminator3000 (Reply #140)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 05:31 PM

141. there doesn't appear to even be a list of which 600 corporations are part of the TPP

but i'm sure Nestle is one-
Of the twenty largest contributors to the No on 37 campaign, only one (Nestlé USA) is from a company based in California. And even Nestlé USA is a subsidiary of the giant Swiss food conglomerate Nestlé S.A.
http://organicconnectmag.com/wp/countering-the-big-bucks-campaign-to-defeat-californias-gmo-labeling-prop-37/#.UPHj2GcYOTw

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 05:36 PM

142. More sociopathic douchebags trying to control our resources for their wealth.

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Response to Initech (Reply #142)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 06:01 PM

144. You do realize that they entering into mutually beneficial contracts with various govt entities...

They don't come in with guns blazing and steal water. They provide a service where none existed before.

I don't always like how the business aspect is arranged, but they ARE providing water to millions who otherwise wouldn't have safe, drinkable water.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 06:07 PM

145. We should start a petition to deport these clowns

They don't deserve to live here

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 06:10 PM

146. Not my right?

 

I say Fuck Nestle. As of now I am officially boycotting them and all of their products.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 06:33 PM

150. Thanks, Oilwellian....

for posting this. Our family gave up bottled H2O a few years ago.

What I want to know is when are we going to put a stop to US corporation's incessant drive to capitalize all of our own natural resources? It's bad enough that they have gone all multi-national, from country to country pillaging, raping and effing privatizing everything in their paths. "Westward, Ho!", needs to become "Westward, Whoa!" "Manifest Destiny" is now "Destiny Manifested!" Like Ted Kennedy asked, "When will the greed stop?" It has now gone far past just simple greed. This incessant drive for privatization of every element on the face of the earth has become pure evil. Is there an effort anywhere to stop this madness? If so, please let me know. I'm going to join their group!

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Response to ReRe (Reply #150)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 08:01 PM

187. You're welcome

The G8 protesters are the only group I know of who have consistently criticized the globalist agenda. Occupy probably shares many of their same concerns, but the propaganda campaigns against both groups have been somewhat successful, and their influence diminished...at least for now.

I think the globalist attacks on our municipal water systems will have to be fought on the local levels. It looks like this group has attempted to organize those efforts and reports some successes. I love their mission statement:

Food & Water Watch works to ensure the food, water and fish we consume is safe, accessible and sustainable. So we can all enjoy and trust in what we eat and drink, we help people take charge of where their food comes from, keep clean, affordable, public tap water flowing freely to our homes, protect the environmental quality of oceans, force government to do its job protecting citizens, and educate about the importance of keeping shared resources under public control.


Thanks for your input!

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Response to Oilwellian (Reply #187)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 09:16 PM

189. Thanks for the link to...

...Food and Water Watch. I do hope that our country comes to a consensus on this issue someday, as it seems we finally have re the rampant gun issue and it's leader, the NRA. If Wall Street and the MIC continues to take this country down, we will eventually come to our senses and put things right. Otherwise, we're done for, like Rome of old...

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:26 PM

157. K &R

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:29 PM

158. More free market crap.

These assholes think that everything is a commodity.
It makes me sick.
The whole part about folks 'moping about' is telling.
This jackass has no idea that the vast majority of the world's population does not enjoy longer life, better health, and wealth.


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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:41 PM

160. Poland springs is better anyways.....

 

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Response to kaboom15 (Reply #160)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 07:09 AM

179. Nestle owns it now, and they are draining our (Maine's) aquifers.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:52 PM

161. Next, they'll insist they have the right to harvest it

From our bodies.

Our country's ideas about property rights and The Commons are so screwed up.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:46 PM

166. What About those Air-to-Water Machines?

 

I've seen them, drank water from them, but ended up buying a water distiller because of cost. What do you think of commercial air-to-water gear?
.
.

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Response to triplepoint (Reply #166)


Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:27 PM

167. What the corps are saying is

that owning a gun is a right but water, education and healthcare are not. That's ass backwards.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:43 PM

168. Like they say on South Park...

I say to anyone who thinks that way about WATER..."kill yourself...just...kill yourself."

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:50 PM

169. Control

Control and greed. They want everything. They want do deny you healthcare so you can work your life away and then die, no sick time, nothing. They want your social security, so you have nothing, you just die. These people want slaves. They take away every worker right there is. They want no minimum wage. Why do they want that? it is the same thing about water. Total greed and control. Take away the water. More money and more control. Take a look at Monsanto.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 12:03 AM

171. .

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 12:30 AM

173. If we don't have the right to access water...

They don't have the right to our money.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 01:08 AM

175. Stop buying water? I have a better idea.

It involves a lot of wood, some rope, and a cleric of their chosen denomination.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 01:26 AM

176. Just remember Bechtel and Bolivia

and that's all you need to know. The Bolivians' example is what we need to look at and consider for ourselves. How can we put up with this crap?

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 04:50 AM

177. I prefer the brand, Tap.

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 05:46 AM

178. Stop buying bottled water

Not only is it dead water in those plastic bottle, But think of the foot print on our planet, That those plastic bottles create

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 08:12 AM

180. As Maude Barlow said:


"There are those who intend that one day everything will be owned by somebody and we're not just talking goods here. We're talking human rights, human services, essential services for life. Education, public health, social assistance, pensions, housing. We're also talking about the survival of the planet. The areas that we believe must be maintained in the commons or under common control or we will collectively die."



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Response to marmar (Reply #180)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 08:03 PM

188. Excellent contribution to the discussion n/t

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 08:32 AM

181. Revelation is at hand. Republican Family Values (Europa Style)

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 06:10 PM

184. K&R!

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 06:45 PM

185. moland spring

..

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 09:59 PM

190. i'm disgusted with nestle - i won't be buying any of their products if i can help it

perrier is done
same with s. pellegrino

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 10:27 PM

191. this is another romney 47 moment

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 10:28 PM

192. i'm boycotting nestle

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 01:36 PM

195. Someone put the video on private

Wonder why? Can we find another link?

another link:

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Response to Oilwellian (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 01:47 PM

196. Nestle responds to its critics by lying



Abby Martin features a video message by Nestlé, which the company made in direct response to a recent report Abby made about the company. She responds to points made in the video, and sets the record straight on the company's claims.

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