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Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:06 AM

Lance Armstrong and Consequences

Armstrong is going to appear with Oprah to declare something. He could admit to using PEDs and apologize or whatever. He has a lot further to go IMHO.

Armstong ruined lives. He actively and maliciously attacked those who crossed him. He spread rumors and kept after them. He had the stature to make their lives hell. Most of the other people caught in their own web of lies mostly ruined just themselves.

I have no use for USADA & WADA. They have their own problems that need to be addressed. Until they are restructured, the testing and monitoring factions have serious credibility problems. If they weren't viewed with such skepticism, they would have nailed him earlier. Reportedly, they want Armstrong to meet with them to explain how he avoided testing positive for years.

He does deserve credit for Livestrong, but even that venture falls short of claims when thoroughly vetted. Armstrong knew they would take a huge hit if he was ever caught. That is on him too.

Armstrong was going to be pursued beyond the grave until it could be proven that he used PEDs. Vendetta doesn't even begin to cover what some are pursuing. This is action/reaction. His attitude and persistence are being turned back on him in spades.

My advice: Just.Go.Away.
The echoes of your denials will still drown out any meaningful and rational discussion.

28 replies, 1671 views

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Arrow 28 replies Author Time Post
Reply Lance Armstrong and Consequences (Original post)
Are_grits_groceries Jan 2013 OP
Earth_First Jan 2013 #1
Are_grits_groceries Jan 2013 #2
hfojvt Jan 2013 #15
Ron Obvious Jan 2013 #27
Skidmore Jan 2013 #3
Are_grits_groceries Jan 2013 #7
ileus Jan 2013 #4
trumad Jan 2013 #5
spanone Jan 2013 #20
duffyduff Jan 2013 #22
wake.up.america Jan 2013 #6
sellitman Jan 2013 #8
DanTex Jan 2013 #9
sellitman Jan 2013 #14
DanTex Jan 2013 #16
Are_grits_groceries Jan 2013 #10
duffyduff Jan 2013 #21
spanone Jan 2013 #11
undeterred Jan 2013 #13
duffyduff Jan 2013 #19
roguevalley Jan 2013 #23
wake.up.america Jan 2013 #28
SoCalDem Jan 2013 #12
Whisp Jan 2013 #17
duffyduff Jan 2013 #18
wake.up.america Jan 2013 #26
Odin2005 Jan 2013 #24
Prometheus Bound Jan 2013 #25

Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:20 AM

1. My father (an active competitive cyclist) and I were talking recently...

Armstrong has ruined the public opinon of cycling for a very long time.

My father and I both gave Armstrong the benefit of the doubt during the most recent investigation; it's extremely difficult to swallow the allegations that have now become confession.

The absolute worst part about this, is the 'win by default' aspect to the last decade of cyclists who have 'won' by the disqualification and removal of Armstrong's Tour wins. These athletes did not want to win this way. They wanted to win stages, wear the yellow jersey; and legitimately earn and feel the exhileration that comes with a first place finish.

What a mess.

So Armstrong wants to admit/appologize/beg for forgiveness so the USADA will allow him to compete again.

I'm with you, OP...

Go Away. Just go.

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Response to Earth_First (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:29 AM

2. Armstrong has played a large part

in the American view of cycling. However, as a sport, it is viewed by many in the world as utterly corrupt and at this point beyond redemption.
Many whole teams have been and continue to be ousted. I view it as one step above or below pro wrestling. I can't decide.
It's a shame. Many great racers either compromised themselves by using or were overshadowed by those who did.
What a hot mess.
Smh.....

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Reply #2)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:59 AM

15. as a bit of a cyclist (over 25,000 miles)

I never cared for the sport at all, although I did watch a little bit of Alexi Greywall's win in the Olympics.

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Response to Earth_First (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 12:43 AM

27. I don't think there were winners by default

I'm pretty sure I remember reading that the tour wins were not given to the second place finishers (who were likely just as doped up to the gills as Armstrong was anyway), but rather were simply left vacant.

I've always been pretty sure Armstrong was guilty, btw. He was a relatively mediocre middle of the pack finisher before his cancer, so his sudden rise to greatness had only one likely cause. It just made too good a story for people to look into it more critically earlier.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:33 AM

3. If he threatened and intimidated and

tried to bribe the doping board, isn't that racketeering?

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Response to Skidmore (Reply #3)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:53 AM

7. Probably.

I'm not sure he is out of the woods yet. I don't know if more government or civil actions will be taken.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:39 AM

4. Lance is innocent...hopefully he'll admit nothing.

He shouldn't let people/groups threaten and intimidate him into lying about doping.



We still love and support you Lance.

Floyd is innocent also.

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Response to ileus (Reply #4)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:46 AM

5. You forgot this...

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Response to ileus (Reply #4)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:50 AM

20. you do know he is supposed to ADMIT his guilt in this interview?

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Response to spanone (Reply #20)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:54 AM

22. What kills me is why his lawyers allowed him to do the interview

Armstrong is going to be open to even more lawsuits by admitting he cheated.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:51 AM

6. How about forcing him to return ALL the money won while on PEDs?

Last edited Tue Jan 15, 2013, 12:32 AM - Edit history (1)

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:31 AM

8. I support Lance

Lance is one of the greatest athletes of all time. The vitriol here doesn't affect that and neither does the fact that he very clearly doped. Explain to me how he could beat the most talented climbers of his generation (who were doped to the gills) and then the next day beat the very best time trialers of his generation (who were doped to the gills), year after year after year? Mr. Clean? There wasn't a clean rider in those peletons. I don't hate Lance, but i do feel sad for him -- to have to devote his whole existence to a lie.

His foundation has helped more people deal with the horrors of Cancer than any other in the World. For that alone he has has my support and admiration.

I will always be a Lance Armstrong fan.

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Response to sellitman (Reply #8)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:41 AM

9. Is this a joke?

His foundation has helped more people deal with the horrors of Cancer than any other in the World.

You can't possibly believe that. Have you ever heard of, umm, the American Cancer Society?

Livestrong hasn't actually funded any cancer research since 2005. Millions of people walking around with yellow bracelets, thinking they are helping to find a cure for cancer, whereas what the are actually doing is building up the Lance Armstrong brand.

Lance wasn't just a cheater, he was a bully who damaged the lives and careers of many other cyclists. He didn't dope reluctantly, he was a ringleader, and an enforcer of the "omerta", who would retaliate against anyone who tried to speak out against doping.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #9)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:55 AM

14. Research is different than Support.

I clearly mentioned support.

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Response to sellitman (Reply #14)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:24 AM

16. So you really think that Livestrong has done more to help cancer victims than ACS?

Even if Livestrong actually was the do-gooding charity you think it is, this would be preposterous, given that ACS is something like 20 times bigger. But you might want to read up on Livestrong. A lot of what they do is marketing and "awareness" -- i.e. building up the Lance Armstrong brand.

But the foundation’s financial reports from 2009 and 2010 show that Livestrong’s resources pay for a very large amount of marketing and PR. During those years, the foundation raised $84 million and spent just over $60 million. (The rest went into a reserve of cash and assets that now tops $100 million.)

A surprising $4.2 million of that went straight to advertising, including large expenditures for banner ads and optimal search-engine placement. Outsourcing is the order of the day: $14 million of total spending, or more than 20 percent, went to outside consultants and professionals. That figure includes $2 million for construction, but much of the money went to independent organizations that actually run Livestrong programs. For example, Livestrong paid $1 million to a Boston–based public-health consulting firm to manage its campaigns in Mexico and South Africa against cancer stigma—the perception that cancer is contagious or invariably fatal.

Livestrong touts its stigma programs, but it spent more than triple that, $3.5 million in 2010 alone, for merchandise giveaways and order fulfillment. Curiously, on Livestrong’s tax return most of those merchandise costs were categorized as “program” expenses. CFO Greg Lee says donating the wristbands counts as a program because “it raises awareness.”

This kind of spending dwarfs Livestrong’s outlays for its direct services and patient-focused programs like Livestrong at the YMCA, an exercise routine tailored to cancer survivors available at YMCAs nationwide ($424,000 in 2010). There’s also a Livestrong at School program, offered in conjunction with Scholastic magazine ($630,000 in 2010). “Explain to students that Lance was very sick with cancer but that he was treated and got better,” begins one sample lesson plan for grades three through six.
...


http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/athletes/lance-armstrong/Its-Not-About-the-Lab-Rats.html

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Response to sellitman (Reply #8)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:48 AM

10. As I said,

Lance's behavior went far beyond doping. I repeat-He ruined lives. There are people who lost a lot because of him. He was selfish and vindictive. That behavior sets him apart from others.

As far as doping goes, i said it was a dirty sport. That does not mean all were doping or doping on the same level. Armstrong pursued the latest and best drug.

I don't hate Lance. I just don't admire him or even believe what he will say now.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Reply #10)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:51 AM

21. Look no further than how Greg and Kathy LeMond were treated

I came to the conclusion Lance was cheating when LeMond started speaking out about Lance.

LeMond isn't a liar and had nothing to gain by pointing out the emperor was stark naked, and history has proven him right.

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Response to sellitman (Reply #8)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:50 AM

11. he cheated. he shames his sport. and you support that? whatever.

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Response to sellitman (Reply #8)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:54 AM

13. He could have been a great hero without the lies.

He could have been a world class athlete who didn't cheat.

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Response to sellitman (Reply #8)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:50 AM

19. Oh, my. Words fail me. n/t

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Response to sellitman (Reply #8)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 01:10 PM

23. denial is interesting, no? It is possible to

appreciate the cancer part and condemn the rest. he is a liar and fraud. he cheated. some will never accept that. too bad.

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Response to sellitman (Reply #8)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 12:54 AM

28. To me, at least, cheating is cheating. It doen't matter , if he won or not.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:54 AM

12. Just go away, Lance

You had a long run..made lots of money, and now it's time to step off the stage and live off what you have left...

When you set yourself up as a hero, if your feet are clay, it will come out..

We are glad that you beat cancer, and that you have a family & are living, BUT your hubris is annoying..and you need to STFU and go away now..

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:31 AM

17. Armstrong is a liar and a cheat.

he should run for a repuglican seat in congress

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:48 AM

18. He needs to be a pariah. Shame on Oprah for giving him a forum. n/t

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Response to duffyduff (Reply #18)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 12:33 AM

26. WO will laugh all the way to the bank.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 02:23 PM

24. This thread is proof that we have a athlete-worship problem in this country.

No wonder high school football players can get away with rape when people defend Lance Armstrong even when he is ADMITTING guilt.

This shit is making me hate all sports more and more.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #24)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 03:55 PM

25. How do you figure that?

Only one out of 25 posts so far support Armstrong.

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