HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » This Is BIG (Think Of the...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 12:33 PM

This Is BIG (Think Of the Implications): 'California in Surplus' - Paul Krugman/NYT

California in Surplus
Paul Krugman - NYT
January 11, 2013, 9:00 am

Guess whose state budget crisis seems to be over?

As best I understand it, what’s going on in CA is a microcosm (a pretty big microcosm, actually — maybe more of a mesocosm or something?) of what’s going on at the national level. A severely depressed economy led to big deficits, because tax receipts are strongly affected by the state of the economy — indeed, are almost certainly much more cyclical than they used to be.

In response to those deficits, there was a lot of spending reduction plus some more modest efforts to increase revenue. And now that we have the beginnings of real recovery, it’s turning out that those efforts were enough to remove much if not all of the “structural”, as opposed to recession-driven, deficit.

As this reality becomes more obvious, the deficit scolds will of course go wild. They have staked their careers on crusading against supposedly intractable deficits, and they have their hearts (and more important, their wallets) set on exploiting the alleged fiscal crisis to dismantle social insurance programs. Good news will be a blow to everything they want, and will be furiously and vigorously denied.

But once again: deficits are receding as an issue before our eyes.


Link: http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/11/california-in-surplus/?smid=tw-NytimesKrugman&seid=auto





.

83 replies, 10324 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 83 replies Author Time Post
Reply This Is BIG (Think Of the Implications): 'California in Surplus' - Paul Krugman/NYT (Original post)
WillyT Jan 2013 OP
mucifer Jan 2013 #1
lunatica Jan 2013 #4
xxqqqzme Jan 2013 #31
lunatica Jan 2013 #49
bluestate10 Jan 2013 #5
mucifer Jan 2013 #10
waddirum Jan 2013 #15
BVictor1 Jan 2013 #68
Melinda Jan 2013 #18
JDPriestly Jan 2013 #42
Sirveri Jan 2013 #76
wryter2000 Jan 2013 #21
Lordquinton Jan 2013 #37
Flabbergasted Jan 2013 #45
fasttense Jan 2013 #72
Fire Walk With Me Jan 2013 #2
bluestate10 Jan 2013 #7
Fire Walk With Me Jan 2013 #8
dooner Jan 2013 #70
Bainbridge Bear Jan 2013 #74
JDPriestly Jan 2013 #43
WillyT Jan 2013 #55
Starry Messenger Jan 2013 #83
phantom power Jan 2013 #3
bullwinkle428 Jan 2013 #6
AlbertCat Jan 2013 #33
tex-wyo-dem Jan 2013 #67
Taverner Jan 2013 #9
WillyT Jan 2013 #11
Odin2005 Jan 2013 #17
Melinda Jan 2013 #19
Taverner Jan 2013 #20
Lordquinton Jan 2013 #44
libdem4life Jan 2013 #62
WillyT Jan 2013 #64
WillyT Jan 2013 #56
SunSeeker Jan 2013 #78
freshwest Jan 2013 #27
Follow The Money Jan 2013 #12
Puzzledtraveller Jan 2013 #13
MineralMan Jan 2013 #14
Odin2005 Jan 2013 #16
ip5683 Jan 2013 #22
tblue37 Jan 2013 #26
freshwest Jan 2013 #61
tblue37 Jan 2013 #65
NuttyFluffers Jan 2013 #73
samsingh Jan 2013 #23
tblue37 Jan 2013 #24
samsingh Jan 2013 #25
DaveJ Jan 2013 #29
samsingh Jan 2013 #32
DaveJ Jan 2013 #36
samsingh Jan 2013 #47
Flatulo Jan 2013 #63
samsingh Jan 2013 #80
Flatulo Jan 2013 #81
samsingh Jan 2013 #82
airplaneman Jan 2013 #28
xxqqqzme Jan 2013 #34
airplaneman Jan 2013 #51
SwankyXomb Jan 2013 #52
Historic NY Jan 2013 #30
Doctor_J Jan 2013 #35
marci626 Jan 2013 #39
Javaman Jan 2013 #38
HiPointDem Jan 2013 #40
supercats Jan 2013 #41
Duval Jan 2013 #46
thetonka Jan 2013 #48
forestpath Jan 2013 #50
Cha Jan 2013 #53
WillyT Jan 2013 #54
DonCoquixote Jan 2013 #57
WillyT Jan 2013 #58
DonCoquixote Jan 2013 #59
WillyT Jan 2013 #60
Kingwithnothrone Jan 2013 #66
DonCoquixote Jan 2013 #71
JayhawkSD Jan 2013 #69
John2 Jan 2013 #77
valerief Jan 2013 #75
1983law Jan 2013 #79

Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 12:42 PM

1. I wish things were getting better in the Democratic state of Illinois.

We are in a total mess now. No end in sight. Our public aid program keeps getting more and more cuts and new regulations and the state pays all it's bills late.

But, a big congrats to California!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mucifer (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 12:54 PM

4. In California we went through some pretty drastic cuts

Government workers were forced to take furlough days. Government offices like the DMV and court houses and other offices the public uses all the time didn't work 5 days a week and a lot of cuts to programs for the poor and women and children. I work in UC Berkeley and we had massive cuts twice and one year of furloughs. The students have had their registration fees go way up. This used to be free for California residents. Not anymore. UC has turned to foreign students because they pay an insane amount for registration.

It's been hard. This is good news.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lunatica (Reply #4)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 02:30 PM

31. Hard is a gentle word for it.

Our after school program staggered through 30% cuts in our budget. We struggled to keep health insurance for our staff. They have had no pay increase in 4 years. Our Executive Director cut his salary twice (his salary is not that terrific to begin with). Our small program makes it possible for 120 low income families to keep their jobs because they know their kids are in a safe, nurturing environment after school.

Our fundraiser last year netted $30,000, which helped us through the summer, when day long children's programs are needed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to xxqqqzme (Reply #31)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 05:25 PM

49. That's brutal

I hope you guys get some of that 9% increase for education that he's talking about this year. He especially wants to focus on the poor students.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mucifer (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 12:54 PM

5. Maybe you and other voters need to vote in a democratic super-majority, that seems to be

what worked for California voters. Democrats are simply better than republicans at governing and creating healthy economies, historical data proves that in reams. The problem is that Democrats are poor at explaining to voters what Democrats accomplish.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bluestate10 (Reply #5)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 01:12 PM

10. We have a pretty ugly democratic majority. We have some very crooked dems in our state. It's sad.

We have some great progressives, too. But, the state legislature is a mess.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bluestate10 (Reply #5)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 01:44 PM

15. Illinois has a Democratic supermajority in both chambers...

and a Democratic Governor and big city Mayor.

Still, we always seem to be just a year away from marriage equality, medical marijuana, and the other fruits of enlightened governance. They tells us they don't have the votes in this lame duck session, but promise to "introduce the bill" in the next session.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to waddirum (Reply #15)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 12:31 AM

68. Only after the last election.

 

There only became a supermajority after the November elections.

We may not have marriage equality yet, but we do have Civil Unions. We'll get it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bluestate10 (Reply #5)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 01:56 PM

18. The passage of Proposition 30 is what's turning this state around.

Although we are more than ecstatic to have a Super Majority, for sure! Lots of new tax revenue allowing for revisiting and revising fiscal projections = a happy California these days.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Melinda (Reply #18)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 03:19 PM

42. We simply told the wealthy carpetbaggers that if they want to enjoy California's beaches and

sunshine, they will have to pay high taxes.

So far our beaches and sunshine are winning out over low taxes.

California is blessed. We have a lot to offer other than just opportunities to make money and avoid taxes.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JDPriestly (Reply #42)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:23 AM

76. I'm sure having a large pool of college graduates doesn't hurt either.

Do anything high tech and you need folks with a high tech education.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bluestate10 (Reply #5)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 02:02 PM

21. Plus we voted for an increase in income tax for incomes over $250K

More revenues as well as the fact that the Republicans can't obstruct anything.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bluestate10 (Reply #5)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 02:53 PM

37. Maybe non Californians need to take a loot at the state political landscape

We are very progressive, but we are the target of every regressive in the country and have tons of money funneled into our state from everywhere else to keep us from progressing, every victory is one against massive opposition.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lordquinton (Reply #37)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 03:38 PM

45. "Take a loot"? ;)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bluestate10 (Reply #5)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:29 AM

72. Here in TN we have a RepubliCON super majority and in Greene County a 12.6% unemployment rate

That's what RepubliCONS do to a state. They turn it into a low, low wage right to be unemployed state.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 12:46 PM

2. Has Jerry finally turned this thing around? Whew!

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #2)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 01:00 PM

7. Looks so. Brown made some hard choices early on. Now that California is getting on it's feet,

employment growth will continue to fill it's coffers. Now, if California can have some of the tax money that it ships off to red states by the trainload back. I often have argued with conservative numb skulls in blogs. My point was that California's economy is so large and productive that if that state got just 10% of what it sends to red states back to keep, California would run a budget surplus within 2 years and will run surpluses in infinitum. Jerry Brown was not able to get 10% of Californian's tax money back from red states, but he took other responsible routes for getting California back into the green.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bluestate10 (Reply #7)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 01:05 PM

8. The state would have ended up on eBay if Meg Whitman had won!

 

Great news for once! Whoohoo!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #8)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 03:10 AM

70. Funny and True!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #8)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:22 AM

74. The arrogance of billionaires -

 

Whitman was filthy rich and so, without any political experience, she thought she should be the governor of our largest state and run it like a corporation. Unbelievable. Good riddance, Meg.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bluestate10 (Reply #7)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 03:21 PM

43. The Occupy movement in California had a lot of sympathy from middle-class city dwellers.

I live in a somewhat poorer area (middle class in any other part of the country, but poor for Los Angeles) and discussed the Occupy movement with my neighbors. A surprising number of them sympathized. This covered a lot of age groups. I think that the Occupy movement gave people some encouragement to vote for the tax increases. It wasn't real obvious but it changed people's hearts.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JDPriestly (Reply #43)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 06:30 PM

55. I Experienced The Very Same Thing... Occupy Changed The Converstaion... And...

people started looking at the articles, charts/graphs, and realized just who was fucking them over.




Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JDPriestly (Reply #43)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 12:34 PM

83. Agreed.

The first version of the Millionaire's tax was written by union teachers who had been inspired and/or involved in early Occupy efforts. I'm still kind of amazed it got through, there was so much money fighting it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 12:50 PM

3. For republicans, deficits are a demogoguerry tool, not an actual issue.

It's just a rhetorical tool to flog their base into a froth whenever it's politically convenient for them. Any cursory examination of history shows that it's not a problem they actually care about.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to phantom power (Reply #3)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 12:58 PM

6. One only has to point out the infamous Cheney quote if they ask for proof of that!

"Deficits don't matter!"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to phantom power (Reply #3)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 02:31 PM

33. not an actual issue.

Indeed.

I they (or anyone) were serious about it they'd cut 1/3 of our military budget and we'd be fine.... and still have the biggest military budget in the world.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to phantom power (Reply #3)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 12:12 AM

67. Boy, you nailed that, phantom power!

When little boots was spending like no tomorrow on treasonous wars and, at the same time, cutting taxes for everyone (especially the wealthy), you didn't hear a peep out of the so called "conservatives" for running up deficits at alarming rates. That, by the way, has never been done during "war time"...in fact the exact opposite has been the historical president (raising taxes has always been the shared sacrifice during wartime).

But now, when a Democratic (and black) president is increeasing deficits to get us out of the worst economy since the Great Depression, all of a sudden the deficit is going to kill out children...

...what a bunch of shit!

Good on Cali and Gov Brown!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 01:08 PM

9. Keynesian Economics, Vindicated

 

W00t!!! Can I hear a shout out for Keynes? Can I hear mad props for John Maynard? Can I hear some love for Mistah Govnah JERRY BROWN!!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Taverner (Reply #9)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 01:17 PM

11. Hear, Hear !!!








Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Taverner (Reply #9)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 01:54 PM

17. Heh, I wasn't even born the last time he was governor!

JERRY! JERRY! JERRY!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Odin2005 (Reply #17)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 02:00 PM

19. lmao, I am now officially too fucking old. ;-)

I voted for Jerry the first couple times too... remember when he dated Linda Ronstadt? You know, Stone Ponies? Oh wait, I got foggy brained for a sec.... you're still a young whippersnapper.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Melinda (Reply #19)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 02:01 PM

20. I was a kid during Jerry's 1st admin

 

Part of his (and his father's) policies were:

- Free Community Colleges, Universities and Colleges
- Death Penalty eliminated
- Unofficial De-Criminalization of weed
- THE AQUADUCT!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Taverner (Reply #20)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 03:35 PM

44. Except for that last one

I hope he makes real headway now.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Melinda (Reply #19)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 10:59 PM

62. Somehow I remember her rollerskating in the Governor's mansion?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to libdem4life (Reply #62)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 11:50 PM

64. Um... Me And Skipper...

Now known as Ron Reagan Jr. were the terrors of the dunk tank at the Reagan Mansion in 1970.

This is a couple of years later.



Shh...

We kicked booty.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Odin2005 (Reply #17)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 06:33 PM

56. LOL !!! - Youngie !!! - The First Vote I Ever Cast After Turning 18, Was For Jerry Brown In 1974 !!!





Damn I feel old... but I got to vote for him again in 2010 !!!

There's THAT !!!


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Odin2005 (Reply #17)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 12:49 PM

78. Ouch!

Man, that hurt me. STFU you little whipper snapper!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Taverner (Reply #9)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 02:12 PM

27. yep.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 01:38 PM

12. and the top earners will whine and cry per usual...but who cares, whiners whine

 

Obviously this has national implications, is this being widely discussed in the corporate media today?

They rich will whine and cry no matter what we do. It seems the people with the most money are the biggest whiners of all, money is not making them happy so we might as well tax them fairly so the rest of the 98% don't keep suffering and dying because of their policies of more for the already wealthy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 01:40 PM

13. Was there drastic cuts?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Puzzledtraveller (Reply #13)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 01:43 PM

14. There were some deep cuts, yes.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 01:53 PM

16. Democrats make governments work.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WillyT (Original post)


Response to ip5683 (Reply #22)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 02:07 PM

26. A government's budget deficit is not the same as its debt, but people

always confuse them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tblue37 (Reply #26)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 10:24 PM

61. Please explain - do you mean that the deficit is like a credit card?

And the debt is what on that credit card - that is, it's someone else's money that is being used. I'm trying to get my head around this as we're going into a new era of determining priorities. Some things, for example, are not under fire by creditors in other nations, such as social spending or here, military expenses.

If people are the priority, those are considered what is necessary to keep the government going - like a healthy workforce. If defense is top of the list, then armaments are the necessary item for government to survive - and possibly then the people's health.

Sometimes we hear social safety net items referred to as 'liabilities' or 'unfunded liabilities.' Defense is not considered in those terms. If it was, it would bring about a more reasonable policy.

As to that matter, what actually are the 'assets' of a nation? Public land, the works of labor, air, water, armaments, resources? Who owns or has right to put those things under the control of government?

I think we are coming to some interesting questions about the nature of government, such as the Founding Fathers did.




Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to freshwest (Reply #61)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 11:55 PM

65. No, I am actually referring to the common

misunderstanding that makes people think that a "budget surplus" means we have paid off our debt, when in reality it doesn't reduce the debt unless it is actually applied to the debt to do so--which is, of course, not likely to happen.

A surplus just means that the outlays in a given fiscal year are less than what the goverment takes in, but since the outlays include interest on the debt rather than payments on the principle, the "surplus" just refers to a short-term situation, not to a reduction in debt, much less to a paying off of debt. The debt we owe is the total of years and years worth of huge deficits.

In every year that the government runs a deficit, that adds to the total debt, but when it doesn't run a deficit, it's like treading water rather than sinking deeper. If there's a surplus, then the money left over after the current bills (including interest on the debt) are paid can be applied to paying down the debt a little--if the people and the politicians don't mistake it for "free" (unearmarked, unspoken for) money, which, unfortunately, is what inevitably happens, specifically because the politicians deliberately play on the common misunderstanding of what "surplus" means.

The federal government still owes those trillions of dollars, even if the "deficit" disappears in a given fiscal year, and even if we run a Clintonian surplus at some point. That "surplus" doesn't mean we have paid down the debt, but a lot of people mistakenly believe it does. That's why the CheneyBush administration was able to push through ginormous tax cuts--because many people thought the "surplus" left by Clinton meant that there was no more debt to be paid off, so the Republicans were able to convince the public that the government had taken "extra" money in taxes that wasn't needed to run the country, so, the Republicanps said, the government should give that money back.

When the economy goes into a deep recession or depression, hiring collapses, and the government has to act as the employer of last resort, despite the debt, and despite the deficit, which increases the debt. Obama got as much stimulus as he could out of the obstructionist congress, but it fell far short of what was needed. But if the economy starts humming along again, so that we start seeing budget surpluses again, that would be a good time to begin paying down the debt, but that is not likely to happen, because politicians will encourage people to believe "surplus" means we don't owe so much money any more.

IOW, I am agreeing with you that California still has plenty of debt to pay down, even if it has a budget "surplus" this year. I also agree that instead of using a "surplus" to shovel more money at the super wealthy and at huge corporations, we need to invest in infrastructure and social capital. Unfortunately, though, I doubt that will happen, even if we start running surpluses.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to freshwest (Reply #61)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:45 AM

73. deficit:surplus for your budget, debt:reserves for your account

when i can't make ends meet, i'm running negative. i need money that i don't have. (deficit)

i have stuff that must be paid for. i need to borrow. i'll have to pay that lender back. (debt)

awesome, i'm earning more money! i can pay for my needs and still have some left! (surplus)

once i pay back everyone i borrowed from, i can save my own money for later. (reserves)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 02:05 PM

23. Democrats are better with the economy than repugs

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 02:06 PM

24. The RW "deficit scolds" were similarly upset

at the undeniable evidence that the economy has been improving under Obama and that unemployment is decreasing.

Their way of dealing with good news, which is bad news for them, is either to deny it--even claiming that the numbers are cooked--or to complain that it isn't improving fast enough. That latter complaint, of course, is true, but only because RW obstructionism prevented the Obama administration from injecting a large enough stimulus into the economy and also blocked every jobs bill that might have improved employment numbers more rapidly.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 02:06 PM

25. i'm convinced now that Democrats ARE smarter than repugs

this could be because repugs tend to be very afraid of everything. Instead of thinking they cower in groups, self-serving platitudes, and a made up past.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to samsingh (Reply #25)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 02:26 PM

29. I never had any doubt.

I'm not an expert in politics, but in business, most Republicans I've known had less interest in work and more interest in how to make money without working. That does not make Republicans smarter, just lazier.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DaveJ (Reply #29)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 02:31 PM

32. there definitely seems to be something here

evidence in the economy in every industrialized country demonstrates that left wing governments (as long as they don't become too left) are better for the economy, for law and order, for families, and the quality of life.

repugs/right wing become parasites consuming what the left wing governments created. in the end the repugs cover everything in crap and are thankfully thrown out of power.

when will the people learn and not give the right the ability to do this to their country and families?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to samsingh (Reply #32)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 02:42 PM

36. I'm hoping we've made it

I seriously do not want Republicans in power again, and I think that their ideology will prevent that from happening.

Over the coming decades, if Democrats can continue to control things, then maybe we can get the entire country's affairs in order.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DaveJ (Reply #36)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 04:21 PM

47. if the Democrats at the federal level stay smart

- protect the right of States to decriminalize drugs (e.g. pot)
- protect public healthcare
- keep taxes low on the middleclass
- get tougher on criminals, reduce gun violence

we will stay in power for years to come.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to samsingh (Reply #32)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 11:37 PM

63. The Scandanavian countries have very high tax rates, but their economies are thriving and their

unemployment is among the lowest in the industrialized world.

They're doing something right.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Flatulo (Reply #63)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 11:21 AM

80. exactly

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to samsingh (Reply #80)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 12:20 PM

81. I see that they also have limited trade with China. Outsourcing your manufacturing base

to the Far East is the beginning of the death spiral.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Flatulo (Reply #81)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 12:25 PM

82. agreed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 02:18 PM

28. Once again the Democrats really fix the problem.

I remember when Wilson was recalled so Arnold could fix the deficit problem (I believe it was 13 billion at the time). Of course Arnold left with the deficit problem much bigger than when he entered (60 billion is what I recall and a record for the state of California). The scoreboard continues to improve under democratic control.
-Airplane

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to airplaneman (Reply #28)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 02:37 PM

34. It was Gray Davis (D)

who was the recall target. The recall was plotted before Davis was re-elected. Ken 'Enron' Lay was the instigator.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to xxqqqzme (Reply #34)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 05:38 PM

51. Thanks for correcting me on this. n/t.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to xxqqqzme (Reply #34)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 05:46 PM

52. I thought it was Issa.

He had it all set up so he could usurp the governor's mansion, then Arnold declared, and he was lost in a flood of candidates, most of who would have to work their way up to be declared looney tune fringe.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 02:29 PM

30. Now if only the Democrat in Albany NY would fix our state...

a simple reinstitution of the stock transfer tax would help and step up tax collections owed by corporation and individuals....would close the gap.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 02:41 PM

35. The time has come for the Red States to be CUT OFF

they are a drain on all of this nation's resources, and drag us down financially, intellectually, and socially. they do not consider themselves part of the US anyway.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Doctor_J (Reply #35)


Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 02:53 PM

38. in other news...

repukes try to stage a fake energy crisis to unseat Democratic Governor.

oh wait...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 03:03 PM

40. kr

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 03:09 PM

41. I am proud to say that Jerry Brown is my Governor!

I have voted for him every single chance I could since the seventies. And have never regretted it!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 04:03 PM

46. K&R n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 05:15 PM

48. Good news, let's hope it is sustainable

And let's hope people can be mature about what worked and what did not without resorting to name calling and party bashing ........






Nevermind.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 05:34 PM

50. How many public servants and retired public servants were screwed over to do it?

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 06:13 PM

53. I was thinking that.. Thanks to Paul Krugman for

pointing it out.. so Eloquently!

Thanks WillyT

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cha (Reply #53)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 06:25 PM

54. Anytime, Cha... Anytime...




Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 06:40 PM

57. and just think

Many Californians are mad because Jerry Brown made budget cuts; his "conservative sellout" make the most liberal of America look fascist.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #57)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 07:58 PM

58. There's A Lot, In That There Sentence... Could You Unpack It For Us ???

Thanks in advance.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WillyT (Reply #58)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 09:39 PM

59. Unpack

Point one...conventional wisdom says austerity is the way to go, the same convention wisdom that is wrong at least 6 out of 10 times.
Point two..Many people feel that Jerry Brown has been far too CONSERVATIVE. Red Ted Rall insult him for doing ANY budget cuts
Point three..If Jerry Brown used liberalism to heal the world's eighth largest economy
and
many Californians feel he has not gone ENOUGH to the LEFT,
that means that we have not gone far enough to the left,
and we can prove the ideas of the left DO WORK.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #59)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 09:56 PM

60. Alright... Despite Whatever Critcisms...

Jerry Brown, as Governor, cannot print money, and is bound by law/reality to balance the state's budget.

He HAD to go semi-austerity because of the two-thirds rule, at the time, and Republican intransigence.

BUT... in this fairly Liberal State, with a large number of Liberal activists, and a whole lot of Liberal voters...

Prop 30, 38, and the anti-two thirds that passed. Made it possible...

For Jerry, who I voted for twice in more the 40 years, and has done good; it was Liberal voter that came to believe, and came home to deliver for the Democratic Party.

If we are smart... we will keep them in our fold.




Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WillyT (Reply #60)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 12:06 AM

66. It ain't enough Willy

 

Yes "our side" makes government "work",within a disgusting Capitalist framework that impoverishes millions.Of course prop30 gets passed after devastating cuts and Jerry Brown gets to play hero on the "left".Jerry Brown has balanced his budget on the backs of the poor,the elderly,the disabled,and the working poor.A 3-1 spending cut-tax revenue ratio,is hardly reason for the rejoicing of glorious political victory and "balanced budgets".And do tell,will the surplus be used to restore programs (to previous levels which were completely inadequate in the first place) that the poor of California depend on as a lifeline?Of course they won't Willy.There will be the usual talk of how "we" must now be prudent with "our" savings and just where are those jobs?

The Republican right-wing assholes are at least honest about which side they're on.Their screed is...eat shit and die you poor fuckers.We get compassionate austerity from "our side".As one of the compassionate posters on "our side" from another thread so aptly put it in so many words.I love my state,if you move out here just stay out of the interior valley where those dumb,uneducated,poor people, with STDs reside.Fuck em that's conservative country anyway.Hmm,not a Democrat to be found among those poor bastards i guess.

I'm sure if Barack and "our lefties" in congress balance the national budget just like Jerry and make "long overdue and needed" cuts to the safety net,the denizens on "our side",along with compassionate Capitalist water carrier Krugman will be equally overjoyed.Our great compassionate austerity leaders will pose for fantastic photo ops that will be distributed far and wide for public viewing.After all,we did extract a few token pennies from the "winners and strivers" who reside in the five percent Willy.

Amen to Capitalism.Many have given much for the cause and we thank you all for keeping the dream alive.The winners and strivers can raise the boats of the poor with their tide of prosperity.God bless the United States of austerity and "balanced" budgets.Tough love was needed.How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your peas poor people?There seems to be a fundamental weakness in the American Dream or is it Scheme?Poor people keep showing up Willy.

Austerity and "balanced budgets" have nothing to do with the advancement of working class power in this country.Of course this is a site for the Democratic Party, not Leftists,so it's understandable the reactions to anything that can be held onto as a victory.I just wish some people here would stop calling themselves the left.They do NOT represent leftist politics in any way or form.At least people should be honest about who they are and what they represent.

Left wing government in a Capitalist Empire is bullshit Willy.The cognitive dissonance of the enablers of the pestilence and starvation is astounding.



That being said WillyT,i like most of your posts.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kingwithnothrone (Reply #66)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 03:37 AM

71. I hear you, but

Do answer me this
If Jerry Brown does not have the legal authority to raise taxes, what is he supposed to do, bomb the state Senate? I am to the left of Obama, but I do get tired of hearing people say "so and so did not do this" when they do not say how they could have done it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 12:48 AM

69. Krugman clearly doesn't understand what is going on in CA

"As best I understand it, what’s going on in CA is a microcosm... of what’s going on at the national level."

Not even close.

California endured two years of ruthless and very painful spending cuts, across the board, affecting every aspect of government; education, public safety, social services, safety net, and all aspects of public service employment. Those cuts have not been restored. Cuts at the federal level have been essentially nonexistent.

California raised taxes on incomes over $250K rather than the $400K federal level, by a larger percentage than at the federal level, and raised the sales tax. Our tax increases have been an order of magnitude higher than at the federal level.

The projected surplus is also the result of some rather unrealistically optimistic revenue projections. We'll have to wait and see if they actually materialize. They usually do not.

To say that California is "a microcosm of what's happening at the federal level" is an unusually idiotic statement coming from Krugman

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JayhawkSD (Reply #69)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:50 AM

77. Lets be clear,

 

California raised taxes but the state is not responsible for two Wars or the failure of the U.S. economy. We have a capitalist system and private enterprise is basically responsible for most of the failure of the U.S. economy not the Federal Government or the responsiblity the Federal Government takes in the social safetynet or things such as national disastors or infrastructure.

Don't get the idea the Federal Government hasn't given any money back to California either for things such as education and grants. The U.S. Government has tried to make the environment tenable for private enterprises to create jobs for the economy as much as they could through less taxation and deregulation for the last twelve years. The people at the top just abused those privileges by downsizing and outsourcing U.S. jobs for cheap labor and more profits going to share holders.

To put the blame on U.S. workers and the poor is outrageous by suggesting the U.S. Government should cut safety net programs. California is not supporting an Empire either with troops spread out over the World in over 150 countries under the disguise of National Security. That Empire and nation building has mostly benefited the military industrial complex too and most of that is in red districts through out the U.S. The President is on the right path by going after the people that created the problem and should keep his hands of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid period. Go after people like the Mitt Romney's, Kochs and Sheldon Addison's loopholes where he will find plenty of money. Go after the Oil companies also that made all those profits everytime they jacked up oil prices. and make them pay for taking jobs out of this country. I think they all should be made responsible just like we did to the auto Industry. It seems like they are the only industry announcing new jobs in the U.S. now.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:46 AM

75. they'll just have to create another 9-11, er, another Pearl Harbor, as PNAC put it,

so that the nation can piss away more money and bankrupt us, making us one step closer to a dictatorship.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 02:33 PM

79. Not to be a downer..

 

But this "surplus" is projected based on a budget. I have seen this before, but the revenues never seem to turn out as expected. Hoping for good news, but years of government sleight of hand has left me cynical.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread