Fri Jan 11, 2013, 07:36 AM

trumad (34,429 posts)

I have no doubt, that if teachers were armed---students would die, at the hands of the teacher.

How many times have we seen videos of Teacher-Student confrontations.

I have no doubt some teachers will pull a gun in these situations.

72 replies, 3038 views

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72 replies	Author	Time	Post
I have no doubt, that if teachers were armed---students would die, at the hands of the teacher. (Original post)	trumad	Jan 2013	OP
I think you are right.	Skidmore	Jan 2013	#1
If the weapon is secured/locked up what use it is in an emergency?	Sheepshank	Jan 2013	#46
Or armed guards?	Graybeard	Jan 2013	#2
Arming teachers is a much worse idea than arming guards	BlueStreak	Jan 2013	#34
Re: "we could hire professionally trained guards and hold them to a set of standards"	eomer	Jan 2013	#65
I agree. But at least there is some logic to that	BlueStreak	Jan 2013	#72
I don't think all or even most (or possibly any) teachers should be armed.	OneTenthofOnePercent	Jan 2013	#3
You're worthless and weak!!	RadiationTherapy	Jan 2013	#4
Statistically speaking, a gun has been involved in 100% of all gun deaths.	Xipe Totec	Jan 2013	#5
Brilliant.	tavernier	Jan 2013	#8
++++1!	CrispyQ	Jan 2013	#57
That's a problem, isn't it?	MNBrewer	Jan 2013	#6
Guns Do Not Belong In Schools.	In_The_Wind	Jan 2013	#7
And the example being set for children is horrific. n/t	RKP5637	Jan 2013	#56
I would agree with that.	apnu	Jan 2013	#9
And those are probably the ones	michigandem58	Jan 2013	#15
Good point.	UnrepentantLiberal	Jan 2013	#10
Obviously we should arm the students, too	Orrex	Jan 2013	#11
Really. This.	October	Jan 2013	#12
And after all, who wouldn't	Ilsa	Jan 2013	#22
See? It's the only solution that makes sense.	Orrex	Jan 2013	#26
You and I forgot to	Ilsa	Jan 2013	#69
Or just broke up with a girlfriend, orwho felt slighted...really they deserve guns as an outlet n/t	Sheepshank	Jan 2013	#48
But students might threaten the janitors. So janitors should be armed as well, etc, etc, etc..... nt	Guy Whitey Corngood	Jan 2013	#70
In elementary schools the issue for me is that little children might grab the gun.	Jennicut	Jan 2013	#13
Statistically it is inevitable.	leeroysphitz	Jan 2013	#14
In any tense situation, the introduction of guns is just a tragedy waiting to happen. nt	Chorophyll	Jan 2013	#16
A nut bag parent started yelling at a teacher during pickup at my kid's school the other day.	wildeyed	Jan 2013	#17
DURec.	Tuesday Afternoon	Jan 2013	#18
Plus nutbag Students...	DaveJ	Jan 2013	#19
You must have taught before.	narnian60	Jan 2013	#33
If not by the teacher, by the teacher's arms. The idea is get fewer guns into schools ....	marble falls	Jan 2013	#20
and vice-versa.	HiPointDem	Jan 2013	#21
My brother was assaulted by a student once...	kag	Jan 2013	#23
I think there are many intelligent students who would refuse to go to school...	peace13	Jan 2013	#24
A co-worker brought up this fabulous point--it'd be so much easier for pedophile teachers	justiceischeap	Jan 2013	#25
This would mesh nicely with Stand Your Ground laws	Orrex	Jan 2013	#27
I had a couple of high school teachers that I'm sure didn't need a handgun	Lex	Jan 2013	#28
If you arm teachers, then parents will feel it necessary to arm their children	no_hypocrisy	Jan 2013	#29
And then the NRA will call for arming the students.	earthside	Jan 2013	#30
I have no doubt either, in certain schools the rate would be high too	uponit7771	Jan 2013	#31
When I asked my son about how he would feel with armed teachers in his school, he kind of shrugged,	Brickbat	Jan 2013	#32
So... who proposed this?	bobclark86	Jan 2013	#35
I don't think anyone really has	LiberalEsque01	Jan 2013	#38
Then there are those "superior" people, better off running with scissors....just saying n/t	Sheepshank	Jan 2013	#50
What---you think the NRA wouldn't support this...	trumad	Jan 2013	#41
And where will these thousands of guards come from	jberryhill	Jan 2013	#58
Agreed!	SoapBox	Jan 2013	#36
Agreed.	Myrina	Jan 2013	#37
Schools being gun free zones is a safety, not crime, issue	Recursion	Jan 2013	#39
So basically..	LiberalEsque01	Jan 2013	#40
You're more likely to be struck by lightning while being eaten by an alligator...	Recursion	Jan 2013	#42
I think..	LiberalEsque01	Jan 2013	#45
Either they're "such rare incidents" and more guns in the schools	gollygee	Jan 2013	#47
You're not thinking clearly though	LiberalEsque01	Jan 2013	#49
I'm speculating, as are you	gollygee	Jan 2013	#59
Lots of schools and places	LiberalEsque01	Jan 2013	#60
You have to weigh the threat of the guards vs. the threat of violence by others	gollygee	Jan 2013	#61
This message was hidden by jury decision.	LiberalEsque01	Jan 2013	#63
In 2008, there were 592 accidental firearms deaths in the US.	sofa king	Jan 2013	#71
This message was self-deleted by its author	Recursion	Jan 2013	#66
dumb laws that will do nothing more than create war zones.	Sheepshank	Jan 2013	#43
Hey..... a good candidate for US Sec of Ed, then.	Smarmie Doofus	Jan 2013	#62
How many times do highly-trained police officers make mistakes in	wiggs	Jan 2013	#44
We should simply clone George Zimmerman a few thousand times and let him roam the halls.	Cary	Jan 2013	#51
What does Bill Gates think? He knows everything. n/t	Smarmie Doofus	Jan 2013	#52
Remembering some of the teachers I had in school there is no way they	doc03	Jan 2013	#53
I've had teachers that "no-way" would I trust them with a loaded gun. They were not	RKP5637	Jan 2013	#54
or teachers and other students would die at the hand of the students	Fresh_Start	Jan 2013	#55
It would certainly make it easier to happen	treestar	Jan 2013	#64
How many guns are currently in schools? Do we have any idea?	Recursion	Jan 2013	#67
I think we'd see more than a few accidental shootings as well...	cynatnite	Jan 2013	#68

Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 07:45 AM

Skidmore (29,013 posts)

1. I think you are right.

I also can't imagine how you can secure a weapon so that some enterprising child doesn't figure out it exists and gets him/herself in trouble with it. I just don't think classrooms are the places for weaponry.

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Response to Skidmore (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 10:27 AM

Sheepshank (5,024 posts)

46. If the weapon is secured/locked up what use it is in an emergency?

The alternative is to have teachers wear holsters? Thanks, but no thanks. That is NOT the envoronment that promotes a sense of safety, well being, and calm learning. That's not the environment I want for my kids to be in every day for 7-8 hours a day.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 07:50 AM

Graybeard (6,635 posts)

2. Or armed guards?

Do we really want to risk having a George Zimmerman in every school?

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Response to Graybeard (Reply #2)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 10:00 AM

BlueStreak (3,758 posts)

34. Arming teachers is a much worse idea than arming guards

I think it is fair to expect that we could hire professionally trained guards and hold them to a set of standards. Even so, the track record is not very good for armed guards preventing school shootings, or even lessening the carnage.

But arming teachers? That is pure insanity.

Anybody who has ever been a teacher knows there are times when you come right up to your limit of patience. There are time when even the best teachers can barely keep it under control. Most teachers with guns would not going into a shooting rage any time during their career, but with 3 million armed teachers, I have no doubt that there would be at least dozens of cases each year where teachers go "postal".

And what should be obvious to anybody with the reasoning power of a banana, if the gun is supposed to be at the ready to take on a surprise attacker, that means the gun must be in a place where students could also get to it, perhaps by overpowering the teacher. I have been in classrooms where there is no way I'd want to have a gun on my person. That would be almost as dangerous as an armed prison guard walking along through an exercise area full of career criminals. Thankfully not every classroom is like that, but there are such situations, and then there are the kids who themselves are mentally unbalanced. This is a horrendous idea.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #34)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 12:31 PM

eomer (3,167 posts)

65. Re: "we could hire professionally trained guards and hold them to a set of standards"

Perhaps, except when we don't. Even if we could accomplish that for a large percentage of guards, at best there will still be some bad ones.

I don't know about other parts of the country but here in Florida we have an idiot guard shoot somebody every now and again. More armed guards will increase the exposure and surely therefore the incidence of people being shot (inappropriately) by them.

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Response to eomer (Reply #65)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 04:38 PM

BlueStreak (3,758 posts)

72. I agree. But at least there is some logic to that

There is no logic whatsoever to telling teachers to keep loaded guns with them in the classroom.

What could possibly go wrong?

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 07:51 AM

OneTenthofOnePercent (6,268 posts)

3. I don't think all or even most (or possibly any) teachers should be armed.

Many businesses and schools have programs to deal with on site medical emergencies until paramedics arrive, a sort of group of first responders trained/certified with emergency medical knowledge and equipped with more than basic first aid supplies.

Perhaps simply one or two specially trained "safety officers" that are part of the administrative or school staff. It can be a teacher or admin that has been well screened, is licensed and attended state training classes on how to deal with an active shooter. They can keep the firearm in a locked biometric safe and have a police-band radio for emergency direct dispatcher contact - if a shooting occurs they can respond in less than a minute or so instead of waiting for cops to arrive in 5-10 minutes. Sort of like a reserve deputy.

I don't think arming all teachers is the answer - like you say. It's a stressful job and with too many cooks in the kitchen, a (deadly) mistake is bound to be made.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 07:57 AM

RadiationTherapy (4,825 posts)

4. You're worthless and weak!!

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 07:59 AM

Xipe Totec (29,810 posts)

5. Statistically speaking, a gun has been involved in 100% of all gun deaths.

Last edited Fri Jan 11, 2013, 07:59 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

When somebody gets shot, there's always a gun nearby.

There have been no cases of people being shot where guns were not present.

It stands to reason that being in the vicinity of a gun increases the likelihood of being shot.

So increasing the number of guns near children increases the chances of having children shot to death, irrespective of who is holding the gun.

But then again, logic does not seem to persuade people as much as it used to.

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Response to Xipe Totec (Reply #5)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 08:04 AM

tavernier (623 posts)

8. Brilliant.

Sadly, way too much clear reasoning. It will never fly.

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Response to Xipe Totec (Reply #5)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 10:45 AM

CrispyQ (16,031 posts)

57. ++++1!

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 07:59 AM

MNBrewer (5,624 posts)

6. That's a problem, isn't it?

Sometimes even a "good guy with a gun" can snap.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 08:02 AM

In_The_Wind (42,842 posts)

7. Guns Do Not Belong In Schools.

A carrying permit in New York State prohibits taking the gun onto school grounds for a good reason.

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Response to In_The_Wind (Reply #7)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 10:43 AM

RKP5637 (25,591 posts)

56. And the example being set for children is horrific. n/t

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 08:06 AM

apnu (5,010 posts)

9. I would agree with that.

I recall more than a few unhinged teachers from my high school. The thought of them armed is terryfying.

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Response to apnu (Reply #9)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 08:38 AM

michigandem58 (590 posts)

15. And those are probably the ones

who are gun nuts and would be designated as your armed protecter.

Reply to this post

Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 08:07 AM

UnrepentantLiberal (11,700 posts)

10. Good point.

The answer to gun violence is not more guns.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 08:20 AM

Orrex (36,421 posts)

11. Obviously we should arm the students, too

After all, the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

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Response to Orrex (Reply #11)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 08:33 AM

October (3,257 posts)

12. Really. This.

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Response to Orrex (Reply #11)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 09:11 AM

Ilsa (31,662 posts)

22. And after all, who wouldn't

Trust a 15 year old with raging hormones with a firearm in a school when he'd (she'd) rather be homing watching tv, gaming, shopping, or out running around?

Reply to this post

Response to Ilsa (Reply #22)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 09:36 AM

Orrex (36,421 posts)

26. See? It's the only solution that makes sense.

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Response to Orrex (Reply #26)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 01:42 PM

Ilsa (31,662 posts)

69. You and I forgot to

Load our plates with sarcasm smilies.

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #22)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 10:31 AM

Sheepshank (5,024 posts)

48. Or just broke up with a girlfriend, orwho felt slighted...really they deserve guns as an outlet n/t

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Response to Orrex (Reply #11)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 01:46 PM

Guy Whitey Corngood (14,845 posts)

70. But students might threaten the janitors. So janitors should be armed as well, etc, etc, etc..... nt

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 08:35 AM

Jennicut (25,338 posts)

13. In elementary schools the issue for me is that little children might grab the gun.

I work as a sub and believe me, the kids are all over you. You can't hug them but they do hug you out of nowhere. If I have a gun on my hip do I want little kids hanging on me? I just subbed a kindergarten class the other day and I imagined having a gun with those kids. Makes me shudder.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 08:35 AM

leeroysphitz (9,686 posts)

14. Statistically it is inevitable.

Over time.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 08:39 AM

Chorophyll (5,042 posts)

16. In any tense situation, the introduction of guns is just a tragedy waiting to happen. nt

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 08:46 AM

wildeyed (6,863 posts)

17. A nut bag parent started yelling at a teacher during pickup at my kid's school the other day.

I doubt the teacher would have shot her if he was armed, but it would have added a new layer of intensity to the proceedings. Not a good one.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 08:51 AM

Tuesday Afternoon (43,885 posts)

18. DURec.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 08:55 AM

DaveJ (4,930 posts)

19. Plus nutbag Students...

I could see troubled kids taunting teachers with "what are you gonna do... pull out yer gun.. do it..." and then it could get even worse.

Reply to this post

Response to DaveJ (Reply #19)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 10:00 AM

narnian60 (574 posts)

33. You must have taught before.

Reply to this post

Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 08:58 AM

marble falls (1,906 posts)

20. If not by the teacher, by the teacher's arms. The idea is get fewer guns into schools ....

not more.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 09:01 AM

HiPointDem (16,864 posts)

21. and vice-versa.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 09:18 AM

kag (941 posts)

23. My brother was assaulted by a student once...

Years ago. He's a teacher, and he was teaching middle school, and a couple of girls started pushing him and kicking him. He wasn't hurt badly, just kind of bruised and more than a little pissed off. Pacifist that he is, though, he didn't fight back, not even to defend himself.

But I can certainly imagine someone with a little less self-restraint thinking that that would be a "perfect" instance to use a gun to defend him/herself.

Yes, start putting guns in schools, and teachers and students will most definitely start being shot more and more often.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 09:31 AM

peace13 (8,447 posts)

24. I think there are many intelligent students who would refuse to go to school...

If the staff was armed. Think about it. Unhappy, disgruntled people who already have power over you are now carrying. Of course the level headed teacher that can see inner beauty will be there to defend the 'obstinate one'. .....no worries.

This whole idea is crazy. I guess the only thing to do its finish the dismantling of the schools. Unless, maybe we could have parent volunteers bring their sub machine guns in to keep the kids safe.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 09:35 AM

justiceischeap (9,778 posts)

25. A co-worker brought up this fabulous point--it'd be so much easier for pedophile teachers

to intimidate students with their guns too. Imagine that, if you don't touch me/let me touch you, I'll kill you with my gun. That's a happy thought.

Reply to this post

Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 09:38 AM

Orrex (36,421 posts)

27. This would mesh nicely with Stand Your Ground laws

"I had to shoot that kid, because I felt threatened."

Reply to this post

Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 09:38 AM

Lex (32,240 posts)

28. I had a couple of high school teachers that I'm sure didn't need a handgun

in class. No way. I would've been worried for sure.

Reply to this post

Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 09:39 AM

no_hypocrisy (25,290 posts)

29. If you arm teachers, then parents will feel it necessary to arm their children

to protect them from their teachers.

Where do you draw the line? With no guns in schools, period.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 09:47 AM

earthside (4,631 posts)

30. And then the NRA will call for arming the students.

It is what the NRA and the gun fetishists do.

Of course, underneath it all is the greed of gun manufacturers to make more money (sorry gun nuts, it isn't really about the Second Amendment).

The NRA and their weapons-makers puppet masters want to see the U.S. look like a third world country where everybody walks around with a pistol in their belt and an AR-15 slung over their back.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 09:55 AM

uponit7771 (16,143 posts)

31. I have no doubt either, in certain schools the rate would be high too

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 09:57 AM

Brickbat (14,379 posts)

32. When I asked my son about how he would feel with armed teachers in his school, he kind of shrugged,

as if to prove to me it was no big deal. When I started naming teachers ("OK, so how would you feel if Ms. X had a gun? How about Mr. Y?"), he began laughing and couldn't stop.

Reply to this post

Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 10:07 AM

bobclark86 (466 posts)

35. So... who proposed this?

As far as I know, the NRA was talking about guards, not teachers. Show me where they (or anyone with actual clout in the political process) is talking about arming teachers, please.

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #35)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 10:12 AM

LiberalEsque01 (13 posts)

38. I don't think anyone really has

And I think we all know that public skool teachers in general aren't competent enough to carry scissors much less a real weapon. Armed guards or police, however, are not really all that rare and are a good idea.

Reply to this post

Response to LiberalEsque01 (Reply #38)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 10:34 AM

Sheepshank (5,024 posts)

50. Then there are those "superior" people, better off running with scissors....just saying n/t

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #35)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 10:20 AM

trumad (34,429 posts)

41. What---you think the NRA wouldn't support this...

LOL

Look around---many are saying let's arm the teachers, even some teachers.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/ed-schultz-interviews-teacher-who-wants-to-carry-gun-in-class-without-telling-parents/

Reply to this post

Response to bobclark86 (Reply #35)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 10:47 AM

jberryhill (29,884 posts)

58. And where will these thousands of guards come from

Surely each will be a steely-eyed consummate professional, like TSA agents at airports, right?

Reply to this post

Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 10:10 AM

SoapBox (5,812 posts)

36. Agreed!

But I'll bet that the NRA would say that is OK...'cause at least there are guns in schools, like they want.

Reply to this post

Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 10:11 AM

Myrina (8,915 posts)

37. Agreed.

Or kids who get hold of the gun when they're pissed at the teacher, or another student ... all hell breaks loose again.

NO guns in schools. Period.
What we need to do is figure out why Schools are so often the places of such confrontations.
I think it's because our children don't know how to take 'no' for an answer anymore, they don't know how to negotiate, the biggest meanest bully is the one with the most power and the issues that historically have troubled our children are now magnified.

Rather than arming everyone to the teeth, we need to address the causes of such distress, rage, trauma in the first place.

JMHO ...

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 10:14 AM

Recursion (25,487 posts)

39. Schools being gun free zones is a safety, not crime, issue

I think there's so much heat being blasted into this discussion that people forget why that rule is there. It's not to keep someone with murderous intent out (nobody thinks it will do that). It's to keep some dumbass teacher from accidentally discharging his weapon in the faculty lounge. The safety aspect so completely overwhelms the crime aspect, in terms of numbers, that mass shootings just disappear into noise at that point.

Risk management: it's not sexy, and Americans need to be better at it.

Reply to this post

Response to Recursion (Reply #39)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 10:16 AM

LiberalEsque01 (13 posts)

40. So basically..

If we have gun free zones that are unguarded 'everyone' agrees that it's an open invitation for murderers? I'm glad that's out of the way.

So, what's the answer then? I guess the status quo isn't so bad then? Keep the gun free signs up and hope for the best I guess. Or maybe make all the guns in the country disappear by magic? Both are about equally good ideas I suppose.

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Response to LiberalEsque01 (Reply #40)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 10:21 AM

Recursion (25,487 posts)

42. You're more likely to be struck by lightning while being eaten by an alligator...

...than to be the victim of a mass shooting.

The point of gun free zones is orthogonal to mass shootings; the entire actuarial argument is about accidents and theft. Mass shootings are so rare that they simply don't even make a dent in the statistics that underlie having schools as gun free zones.

Reply to this post

Response to Recursion (Reply #42)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 10:26 AM

LiberalEsque01 (13 posts)

45. I think..

Having armed guards would be a good idea.

And I also agree the calls for basically rewriting the bill of rights over such rare incidents is also the height of stupidity.

Reply to this post

Response to LiberalEsque01 (Reply #45)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 10:29 AM

gollygee (12,318 posts)

47. Either they're "such rare incidents" and more guns in the schools

Last edited Fri Jan 11, 2013, 10:30 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

would cause more accidental deaths than they would solve, or they incidents are common enough that gun control laws would help.

You can't call them "rare incidents" to push one side of your agenda, and at the same time suggest they're common enough that you need more guns, pushing another side of your agenda.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #47)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 10:33 AM

LiberalEsque01 (13 posts)

49. You're not thinking clearly though

You have no proof that armed guards cause more havok than they stop (in schools, banks or wherever). So you're basically arguing on a strawman.

Reply to this post

Response to LiberalEsque01 (Reply #49)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 11:32 AM

gollygee (12,318 posts)

59. I'm speculating, as are you

We don't know whether having armed guards will save lives or cause accidental gun deaths. There are many more accidental gun deaths in this country than mass-shooting school deaths, so I think the stats are on my side.

Reply to this post

Response to gollygee (Reply #59)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 11:37 AM

LiberalEsque01 (13 posts)

60. Lots of schools and places

have had armed guards and I really don't think there's been any of these incidences that you fear. Would you disarm the school that major politcians go to? They are armed and clearly don't think of this as such a threat. However, general ignorance does tend to make people think that having armed guards around magically makes places more dangerous.

Why not disarm all court houses, airports, banks, and so on? If guards are a threat, clearly those things would make sense.

Reply to this post

Response to LiberalEsque01 (Reply #60)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 11:39 AM

gollygee (12,318 posts)

61. You have to weigh the threat of the guards vs. the threat of violence by others

Around major politicians who have a high potential of assassination, obviously it's weighed one way.

Around kids and teenagers who are curious about guns, and who already sometimes have the police called and get tasered over tantrums, it's weighed another.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #61)

LiberalEsque01 This message was hidden by Jury decision.

Response to LiberalEsque01 (Reply #60)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 02:06 PM

sofa king (8,689 posts)

71. In 2008, there were 592 accidental firearms deaths in the US.

More than all school shootings combined in that year, and probably more than the combined total of all school shooting deaths from 2008 to the present. They accounted for about 0.5 percent of all accidental deaths in 2008.

www.nraila.org/news-issues/articles/firearm-accident-fatalities-at-an-all-time-low.aspx

One does not really need any solid numbers beyond those to realize that if one compares the accidental death figure of half a percent against the nearly insignificant figure of school shooting deaths (at least ten times lower than accidental deaths), introducing guns into schools will raise the number of deaths in schools without influencing the nearly random school shooting figures at all.

In other words, we will certainly be killing more people to protect them against an insignificant threat if we bring guns into schools. Not to mention the fact that would-be school shooters who currently do not have access to guns will now have access to a gun inside the schools, if the murderous rampager is simply willing to disable the guard first in order to get the firearm. The guards will be the suppliers of the weaponry that aspiring school shooters require to do their fell work.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #47)

Recursion This message was self-deleted by its author.

Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 10:24 AM

Sheepshank (5,024 posts)

43. dumb laws that will do nothing more than create war zones.

La Pierre is a myopic, paranoid, delusional, self important, fucking idiot

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Response to Sheepshank (Reply #43)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 11:40 AM

Smarmie Doofus (9,705 posts)

62. Hey..... a good candidate for US Sec of Ed, then.

Last edited Fri Jan 11, 2013, 01:45 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

I jest.

The "paranoid" part: the jury's still out on that.

But the other qualities match up pretty well with the current SOE.

I'd add "ignorant". They have that in common also.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 10:25 AM

wiggs (4,357 posts)

44. How many times do highly-trained police officers make mistakes in

shootings? Someone makes a wrong move...someone looks like a someone else they are chasing....someone carries something that only looks like a real gun....and they get shot. When they shouldn't have been shot.

So...more guns in the hands of more people who are NOT as well trained will lead to more mistakes, more tragedy, more accidents and more death.

And more money for the gun lobby.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 10:37 AM

Cary (4,067 posts)

51. We should simply clone George Zimmerman a few thousand times and let him roam the halls.

Nothing like untrained, self-righteous, glory hungry little minds with guns out to make their bones.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 10:37 AM

Smarmie Doofus (9,705 posts)

52. What does Bill Gates think? He knows everything. n/t

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 10:38 AM

doc03 (13,838 posts)

53. Remembering some of the teachers I had in school there is no way they

should have been packing a gun. We would be reading about some teacher that lost it and killed their class.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 10:42 AM

RKP5637 (25,591 posts)

54. I've had teachers that "no-way" would I trust them with a loaded gun. They were not

wrapped too well. We had one that was such a hot head she was always throwing chalk at students, and hard, plus slapping people with rulers ... slapping desks with rulers ... shouting and screaming. And we had some male teachers that were overloaded with testosterone and outright bullies + hot heads.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 10:43 AM

Fresh_Start (7,321 posts)

55. or teachers and other students would die at the hand of the students

since I think its possible that the teachers weapon might be taken from him by a student

I don't really see teachers as the most uncontrolled force in the classroom....

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 11:50 AM

treestar (40,448 posts)